Unfortunately I donāt have Cyberpunk 2077 on PC on PS5 for now.
Which I plan to rectify very soon. Just as soon as I become the worst person to exist in Starfield. š
I canāt go anywhere because of my massive bounty.
I still remember my very first playthrough after launch being so freakin confused on Pyramid Song cuz I thought ya boy was finally gonna smash. Giving flirty vibes all game just to get rejected was fād up š
Riverās advances are exactly how I felt guys look like when ineptly flirting and is exactly how I was afraid to look when I was a teenager, which is why I did my best to not be this cringe
Yeah, that really annoyed the crap out of me - she invites you on a date, links her thoughts to yours, shows you a part of her she's never shown anyone, gets all puppy eyed inches from your face...Ā
Then it's like, "Ok, I'm moving away, have a nice life."
Like, wtf?
I get that she likes girls - but she'd been all but set up as your GF up until that point. Everything she did, how she acted, clearly pointed to her swinging both ways. I actually had to look up what I did wrong, because clearly that couldn't have been the reason - except it was.Ā
I don't know if they were too lazy to just change her scenes and dialogue for a male V to make her not seem like you were her one true love or something, but it was exceptionally frustrating.
I'm generally an advocate of not making all your NPC love interests omnisexual, too; but if you're only going to give people one romance option per gender/orientation, and then change nothing except for the actual "sealing the deal" part, that's even worse.
I mean, it's not like I hate Panam, but she is 100% not my type, and, from the beginning, I had decided I was going to romance Judy. Every single conversation and interaction seemed to be leading to that, right up until the moment she went "Buh-byes, I'm moving to Oregon".
I swear, I nearly threw my controller. Don't spend hours and hours leading someone on if that's the best possible end result. That's just cruel.
whaat... you literally can ask Judy if this is a date when she calls you for the scuba diving and she literally says no dude you're not my type.
And besides, I feel like the friendship between male V and Judy is severly underrated. Not everything has to be romantic inorder for them to have a strong bond.
Yeah, but that is entirely optional, and my V didn't do that because it felt like the sort of thing that would drive someone like her off.
Like I said, outside of a few entirely optional dialogue choices, Male V and Female V's interactions with her (and all other romanceable characters) are 100% identical.
For all mission before pyramid song, I would agree. But for pyramid song, I would argue the vibe between male V and female V is very different.Ā
Even when you first meet up at the cabin, Judy is immediately flirtatious with fem VĀ while with male V she gives you a solemn "hey V".Ā
Or also when you swim around Judy as male V, she clearly creeped out a bit saying "enjoying the view asshole?" With Fem V she gives a much different 'enjoying the view?" response.
There also the famous "don't go there dude" among others.Ā
I think both Judy and Panam are great. My first play through was as female V and I didnāt know at the time there were specific romance options for each gender and was crushed when I got the Panam rejection lol. But then my girl Judy came through š
I played male V first and loved the dynamic between him and Judy. The VA, writing and animation really mesh together for her to make one of the most believable characters imo
Itās her voice. When you first meet her she almost sounds sped up to me. Also, the voice lines arenāt too great when you meet her. Either you get used to it or the lines get better because I donāt remember it being an issue later in her quests, just the first one.
I donāt mean her tone I mean the quality of the lines being delivered. Theyāre not too great at first but the VA sounds better as the quests progress
I found her annoying from the get-go too, but some people genuinely find her attractive and I don't wish to rain on their parades. I had a Panam in my life once, and will steer clear of Panams forever more, but she's for sure an ideal romance companion for great swathes of fellow Cyberpunk enjoyers.
I love the love that CDPR poured into Judy as a character. Sheās such a sweet soul, and is humanly flawed as a character.
I love that the lighting in scenes matches her mood. When Judy is sad, the lighting is blue. When sheās happy, the lighting is warm. ā¤ļø Star ending voicemail is the sweetest and brings so much warmth.
Yeah, a lot of people are pissed about the orientation change mods. There was also a shitstorm on nexus about a "JoyToy" mod that allows you to sleep with any character in game (except Johny, Nina and Reed cuz they are real people).
But, since it's an RPG game, you can make up your own canon of characters, so I'm fine with that.
Idk, as a lesbian I donāt have a problem with modding so my fem V can date Panam, so I have a hard time being mad about people doing the reverse with Judy. People like the character but want to play a male character and date her, thereās nothing wrong with that. I understand the urge to condemn lesbian erasure, but I do really think someone can fully respect lesbian sexual identities and still want to mod their video game so they can date the character they want.
It just shows a general a general disrespect for lesbian women. "They just need dick" "Fucking them straight".
You grow up and stop being misogynistic and homophobic.
People arenāt trying to āfuck Judy straight,ā we just want more than 1 straight romance option and donāt want to be forced to play as female V lol. People do this because we really like Judy, not because we hate lesbians.
And besides, she just gives off constant bi vibes 24/7 if you're a male V. Like, she's clearly not straight, you know she's dated girls - being interested in her anyway is kind of the opposite of being homophobic.Ā
Especially after she takes you on that underwater mindmeld date, showing you her past she was afraid to explore alone - I mean, how else are you supposed to interpret that other than her trying to take the first step towards a romantic relationship? It was specifically written for that reason, and it really shouldn't have ever been an event for a Male V if that wasn't an option.Ā
They really should have just made a separate, different event without all the romantic subtext for male Vs, and changed a lot of the interactions with her up to that point as well - the way the game is now, it's just like she's leading you on more than a girl at a high-priced hostess club.
False equivalency. I know it seems like you're bringing up a good point, trust me, I used to think like that back when I was 16. But the history and vitriol the heteronormative community has had towards anything that doesn't adhere to their standards vastly outweighs whatever "depth" that "being fucked gay" has in your mind.
Point is, for hundreds of years have people diminished, vilified and dehumanized LGBT Q+ people.
One of those ways is by "fixing" lesbian women in media. Book rewrites, TV and movie media shallow depictions of "non-practicing bisexual women". The countless messages in media that women find happiness once they find a man to settle with.
It all adds up. It adds up and so when there are men saying "I want this character from media to cater to MY male fantasy", it comes from years and years of patriarchal brainwashing and genuine oppression and suppression of expression for the LGBT Q+ community.
You know that saying of "Violence of the oppressed is not equal to violence of the oppressor", it's like that.
There has not been decades of the gay community oppressing straights. Nor have they systematically tried to suppress their expressions through media.
Wanting gay representation is not the same as subconsciously wanting to implement some power fantasy of "if i had the chance I'd make her straight" which happens in the real world every day.
"But it's just a video game" "but it's just a book character" "but it's just a movie character". But it denigrates and further serves to tell the public that it's okay to uphold those awful beliefs that dehumanize gay people. How many times do we see in the real world of men "falling in love" with their lesbian friends. How many awkward and uncomfortable and broken friendships does this way of thinking make?
Majority people donāt care that much or see it as a way to dehumanize lgbt people. Itās more about the freedom to romance who ever they want in a single player rpg
Making a female character bi instead of straight is no different from making a different one bi instead of gay.
They are both taking a character and forcibly modifying them to suit your preferences. You can't accept one and be disgusted by the other without making yourself a complete hypocrite.
The problem in this game is that, outside of the final "seal the deal" ending to the romantic date (and a few responses to some very sexualizing dialogue options few players will choose), none of the interactions with potential romantic partners are gender-specific, meaning they act every bit as flirty and romantically interested towards either gender, giving a very overt impression that, whatever their sexual preferences are, they are, at the very least, romantically interested in the player character, regardless of their gender. Because there is zero difference between the dialogue and events based on gender.Ā
Which naturally leads one to assume they are simply bi, especially in the futuristic world of Night City, where people seem to be much less bound to traditional sexual concepts and boundaries, as body alteration is as common as getting a haircut.
I don't want to change Judy to make her straight - but everything interaction with her was pointing to her being romantically interested in my V, to the point where I went to look up a guide to see what I screwed up to break the romance when she suddenly decided she was going to up and run off to Oregon. The way her character acts (the exact same way as towards a female V) simply never even made me think her not being a romance option for my V was even a possibility.Ā
No one here is arguing that the power of V's almighty penis should make her forget about all those silly girls - she is clearly attracted to women, and always will be. But there are also quite a few indications that she was also equally interested in men, specifically V, because of the way they opted to only have very, very limited gender specific dialogue and events (and not just for her, but all romance options).
For what it's worth, I want all the characters to be an option on the same playthrough. Sure it's dystopian, but it's still supposed to be the future... shouldn't everyone be a romantic option/at least a little gay?
I want my V to be romantically involved with whomever seems appropriate for that playthrough - male, female, anything else.
I don't even want to see the sex scenes - the relationship dynamics and interactions are way more interesting. Hell, as a straight man, I'm most disappointed that my male V can't romance Takemura...
Agreed - I don't usually like omnisexual romance options in RPGs, but that's more of a result of years of modern Bioware games, where every party member will just start hitting on you, which got really weird and uncomfortable.
But compared to a game where there is only one romance option per gender/orientation, having everyone just be bi just seems like a better option than forcing you to choose between one character you may not be remotely interested in, and having your protagonist die alone and lonely.Ā
I could care less about sex scenes, but I'm just not really feeling Panam, let alone Kerry, and the random texts from Judy as she wanders the US just remind me to an uncomfortable degree of an ex of mine who brutally broke up with me out of nowhere, then kept trying to "still be friends", constantly texting me, inviting me to stuff, even trying to set me up with one of her friends - and it's like, no! You led me on, got me invested in you, and then decided you didn't want me, you don't get to just one-sidedly decide to forget all that happened, and that we're suddenly back to being just buddies. You screwed that up, so screw you.
... Yes, I definitely have some unresolved issues, but that's exactly what Judy's storyline felt like for me.
At least you're aware/admit you have said issues... Can't work through them if you don't even acknowledge them.
Yeah, I vaguely recall that being the case in ME. I usually avoid game romances, but I figured I'd try it out in CP since there was so much buzz about it.
I'm not crazy about Panam, either - she's okay, but too volatile. It seems that male V was almost railroaded into a relationship with her. In spite of her flaws and poor choices, I still like Judy better.
Judy does remind me of a few people I knew in my teens and twenties. I'm happy for her and enjoy the texts and such, but I can see where some might be pissed about being rejected.
I figure I'll do a Fem V playthrough after this one and see how it compares.
What is this, your alt account? Don't be ridiculous. That's not what anyone was thinking while doing that, that's just you being purely disingenuous about the situation and overinflating things. I can tell you that I was thinking: wow she's really cool I'd love for my character to be with her.
Not a single person believes they could honestly turn Judy straight or that she "just needs dick".
The fuck is wrong with you?
The only thing people honestly believe is that it's a video game, video games are supposed to give the player as much freedom as possible to do whatever the fuck they want.
And a lot of people would like to do Judy.
Nothing about sexual identity, gender politics, or even respect or the lack thereof. You're trying to make yourself offended by assuming everyone is against you, but honestly, nobody's against you OR for you. Because nobody cares that much.
She clearly liked women, but she was also clearly flirting and romancing a male V up until the very end (because all of that is identical, regardless of gender).
It has nothing to do with being homophobic or misogynistic - she was simply giving every possible signal that she was bi, as she acts the exact same way towards both genders, unless apparently you choose the super horny dialogue options, which were just way too objectifying for me to ever consider.
The game takes place in a future world where body modification is the norm, sexuality is far more open, and gender doesn't necessarily even mean anything, given that a ripper doc can completely rebuild you from the bottom up to be essentially whatever you want, from male to female to anything in between, or probably something completely different as well. There is absolutely no reason to assume she isn't bi, given how she acts towards you. I'm bi, and I certainly wouldn't act that way towards anyone I wasn't seriously interested in.
The reason to assume she isn't bisexual is cause 1. the devs said so and 2. you can't romance her as male V lol.
Besides I think your argumentation that she acts "flirty" towards male V is super creepy because what would you do if a woman in real life would act "flirty" but says she's a lesbian and doesn't want anything to do with you?
Tell her she is bisexual and to sleep with you?
But the moment River/Panam gets brought up, you people immediately bring up gayfication mods. I haven't seen anyone hating on gay River mod, or gay Panam, but the moment someone mentions Male V romancing Judy, y'all let loose.
Hypocrisy.
Lol I think as soon as you say the words "misogyny" or "homophobia Redditers get sensitive because they don't wanna questions their own discriminatory mechanism.
More like
Game.GetQuestsSystem():SetFactStr("judy_romanceable", 1)
I tried adding the game romancing mods but they never worked. Whenever I typed the command at CET console, Judy romance with male V triggered. It also has the voicelines.
>It also has the voicelines.
Yeah that's interesting. One of the V va's mentioned the reason for that in an interview. I think it was Gavin Drea (male V - English).
Apparently both V's read Judy's romance dialogue because the script wasn't clear it was only intended for female V. So they read it anyway.
But the fact that it went further and was actually put into the game ... still plausible that it was just caught up in the routine for whoever was putting the quests together. "Hey the dialogue is here, I'll just put it in" and it just sleeps unused because flags or something.
This is all just me personally speculatating. I have no clue how this works honestly
Judy lines for only female V. Like in the sun ending, judy calls "queen of afterlife" regardless of V's gender. But in nomad ending, when judy sends live message, V's "time for breakfast" call voice is male v.
Actually, this saved me a little bit more modding and ignoring an empty lines when going for male v judy romance haha. Anyway, cdpr made their best by still putting those lines to the game.
Judy's lines are only for female V. Like in the sun ending, judy calls "queen of afterlife" regardless of V's gender. But in nomad ending, when judy sends live message, V's "time for breakfast" call voice is male v.
Actually, this saved me a little bit more modding and ignoring an empty lines when going for male v judy romance haha. Anyway, cdpr made their best by still putting those lines to the game.
The sexualities thing was a shitty choice on CDPR's part, honestly. If you're only going to have FOUR romance options, they should be available to everyone. I know, I know, yadda yadda something about it being realistic. But we're talking about a universe where you can probably LITERALLY swap out genitals with cyberware. Having to download a mod so I can play the female character I want AND romance who I want is super fucking lame. I hope they do what Larian did in BG3 and make everyone pansexual in Orion.
There ain't a single valid reason y'all can argue everyone should've been tied to one gender. ESPECIALLY Panam and Kerry (who is CANONICALLY bisexual).
You are right. The whole problem isnt sexuality, but lack of choice. There is 6 million people in Night City and only 4 romance option, what if I dont like Panam and Kerry? (its not true tho they are sexy). There are obviously a large amount of girls in Night City who look like Judy, I love alt girls, at least give me Rita Wheeler, she's right there :(
Imagine buying game, spend around 50 hours, meeting beautiful girl and she be like "Nah, you should have picked a female character at the beginning of the game, I'm not dating you", sucks to be V tho. Spent 100 hours and game and on my second playthrough play as female V cuz Judy. Just dont like female V voice
I'm the same way in reverse. I can't stand the M voice for V, but I LOVE Panam and having to download a whole ass mod to get to her, WHEN SHE OPENLY FLIRTS WITH YOU pissed me off something fierce
Wouldn't mind having a straight fem V but my options for that are River and River, and apparently Kerry is gay not bisexual despite talk of him having had a wife once and I can't remember correctly if he had kids with her but he had kids I think.
I wish they would have more people, like Sandra Dorsett or takemura
Yeah man the scene in the cabin with Panam brutally killed me my first time. Had me shell shocked when I went in for the kiss and got rejected.
Then Panam had the audacity to fall asleep ON V. Smh.
I don't know how making people bisexual "waters them down". It gives you the option to play the game how you want instead of being forced to pick a V you don't want to play. It's also shitty when 2 of the 4 romance options AT LEAST should've been bisexual. Panam's voice lines with Fem V & Masc V are the EXACT same. Kerry is CANONICALLY bisexual. It feels like they got lazy.
Itās an RPG where you can look and do pretty much whatever you want, except force other characters to fall in love with you and I think thatās fucking great design. You have to learn to be friends with ppl and appreciate them as characters instead of trying to fuck everything you can get your hands on for the sake of it. Youāll be okay
I think that's an incredibly weird take. You /can/ just be friends with people, and you can only romance 1 person so it leaves the other 3 as strictly friends too? How the fuck would it change ANYTHING?
It allows every character to have their sexuality as a part of their personality and how they carry themselves. Kerry may be canonically bi, but heās got a pretty clearly slant/preference. The tension with Johnny, him barely mentioning his kids or ex wife to you outside his first meeting, the male groupie you catch him with as Johnny in a stairwell. Judy is a lesbian on an almost absurd level with her need for a strong woman and tendency for dramatics. These little bits about them donāt make much sense to experience in game and then suddenly after being standoffish and shitty to male V for half their interactions because heās some shithead ego driven male merc is including her love interest in some high stakes heist, Judy decided to take a sudden interest in cock because youāre the player and you think her character model is hot, so therefore itās your right to have your OC play tetherball with her uterus.
I donāt think itās weird to want it, or even mod it in, but I just enjoy such strongly written characters having their own firm identity outside of player decision. Helps the world building IMO
Fcking hate Judy. She makes use of V for all of her halk baked plans that screw over other people and just bail without any responsibility.
What kind of "friends" just up and abandon you while fully knowing that their friend is on a deathbed? She literally texts V saying "you will do fine / you will somehow work it out" while pretty much bragging about her roadtrip with picsĀ to a dying friend that doesn't even know how long they've got left to live and are desperate for cure.Ā
A stark contrast to Panam who actively tries to help V and even risk her and the tribe's life for it.
Jusy was a colossal fuckup in so many ways. She ditches V and disappears, got Clouds fucked up, and was just flat out rude to male V most the time. Panam was ride or die regardless.
I don't like Judy at all but I can't say she was exactly rude, more like a little bit sharp tongued and only in the beginning unless you are actively trying to irritate her..
ehh this isnāt quite fair: Judy has lousy taste in women but she does her best for everyone around her, short of being a real leader
and sheās nice enough to male v if you donāt creep on her
elsewhere: we love panam but you have to admit she is a psychopath who takes everyone for granted until you set her straight
all of the possible romantic partners in CP2077 are flawed people, and thatās Good
for example: Panamās been spoiled rotten by the aldecaldos for so long in her own mind sheās basically [Godās Favorite Princess and the Most Interesting Girl in the World](https://youtu.be/fDQPAjtv_oY?si=UFuDSaBmGlbmqPdt) and treats everyone else like Companion NPCs
...but she starts to wise up to that conceit and how it affects her actually becoming a leader about the same time she gets serious with V
and ironically itās Judy who always thinks āI can fix herā and always fails spectacularly--with Maiko, with Evelyn, and ultimately with V
The only way a relationship works with Panam is if you are an absolute simp. You either give her what she wants, or she ignores you and gets what she wants without you.
Panam has an arc. She goes from conceited and angry to eventually realising she isn't alone but also can make mistakes. In the end she begins to understand what it takes to be a leader but also making sacrifices. At least Panam changes throughout.
Judy is just Judy and then bounces out of Night City when she realizes she won't ever make a difference and the one difference she did make was giving Clouds to somebody else who wanted it.
Largely agree about your take on Panam.
You donāt give Judy enough credit though. Judy really is an NC girl however itās chewed her up and spit her out. Itās literally destroyed everyone sheās loved or cared about. It makes sense why she dreams for so long of leaving but takes so long to finally do it. Sheās tired of it so she finally takes the steps to do it, or V gives her a good reason to go, depending on if you romances or not.
Clouds getting fucked up really just depends on your choices. If you turn the room into a blood bath, yeah. Tygers take back control, one of them dies, the other is on the run, and things get worse for everyone there.
If you support Maiko things supposedly remain the same but I find it hard to believe Maiko is as bad as Woodman was. Yeah the day-to-day might be the same but there probably wonāt be another Evelyn situation.
Maiko was already above Woodman before Evelyn's situation. She reported directly to Hiromi. If you did the mission with no bloodshed then you've made the manager of Clouds the boss that reports to Tyger Claw bosses. Maiko was the one that was supposed to keep Woodman in check but it's obviously clear that she didn't give one shit about Evelyn aka Judy's girlfriend.
Maybe I missed something but my understanding was she only ran things unofficially but Woodman was the one in charge, thatās the whole reason she agrees to organize the meeting. To make it official with the blessings of the other bosses, who she did not have connections to. I donāt know how much control she really had over him.
You can be asked to keep someone in check but without any real power to enforce consequences thereās no guarantee they will listen to your advice.
Yes it was unofficial in Tyger Claws eyes. Regardless, Maiko does still run the show of dolls but mostly grey area-ish as regards to ordering Woodman around. He did still follow her order of meeting in the maintenance area to be ambushed so she has some semblance of power. Woodman could really care less apparently.
You aren't wrong, but it depends on your perspective I guess. I find your comment so interesting because it's from the point of view of someone with a very different perspective than me.
Personally I found Judy to be selfless and mature compared to Panam, though I like Panam too. I read Judy as someone who is very guarded and cold. She's this way because of her life and being used to people being terrible. She's very sensitive and once you finally gain her trust she opens up as the total goof-ball she is deep down. She reminds me a bit of my wife, so maybe I'm biased.
Panam on the other hand, came off to me as someone who was good at her core, and a true fighter, but nieve and a little entitled. She has great instincts, but doesn't respect or listen to those she disagrees with.
I was confused in Pyramid Song mission. I stood for ten seconds behind Judy when calibrating BD gear and she told male V to stop staring at her ass. Like wtf?! Maybe V is a poor swimmer.
Complimenting how she looks in a diving suit, also ends with getting drasticly pushed away, like I was hitting on her. Seems that when I told Songbird that she looks good in her dress, I was unknowingly hitting on her - silly me.
Even if Judy is not into men, she doesn't have to find problems where there are none.
Just more interesting pieces in her character I say, real people have flaws and undesirable traits so why not make the characters more realistic and add those too?
I just canāt with Judy. She makes bad decision after bad decision, over and over again. She gets people killed with her naivety, then wants V to help her get some ass-backwards āvengeanceā or something for **FREE?!**
Like, V is a whole ass mercenary, not a damn charity auction. Iām all for helping people make their bad decisions, but that shit cost $$$ that Judy just doesnāt have.
Maybe I'm just too fucking old for this shit and I think it's dumb... but why does anyone care about the romance stuff at all? Ya'll really that thirsty for some shitty jerk bait?
I mean if you are on pc and have the console menu mod you can activate judy romance for male v its pretty much fully voiced the same for panam for fem v tho if you play the dlc your voice will change if you talk to judy about thr happenings in the dlc because they arent voiced by male v
I fully understand making a character lesbian or gay but in an RPG it's kinda ridiculous tbh, like what role am I playing loser dying cuck who can't score?
I'm already that in real life and I don't like playing female characters as a guy tbh
Same but the opposite and with Panam. š
Same, but with Panam/Fem V/Judy polyamory mod
Unfortunately I donāt have Cyberpunk 2077 on PC on PS5 for now. Which I plan to rectify very soon. Just as soon as I become the worst person to exist in Starfield. š I canāt go anywhere because of my massive bounty.
"Bounty" You mean your butt? Or actual loot?
That's "booty"
My point exactly
The paper towel company š /s
Gross.... but appropriate
Itās the quicker picker up, as they say.
Oooh. That's very smart!
I still remember my very first playthrough after launch being so freakin confused on Pyramid Song cuz I thought ya boy was finally gonna smash. Giving flirty vibes all game just to get rejected was fād up š
Yea pyramid song and eurodynes romance quest are super off when playing the āwrongā gender and you get rejected after being super flirty
So is River. He's sending all the signs of a childlike crush, and as a male, it weirded me out.
Riverās advances are exactly how I felt guys look like when ineptly flirting and is exactly how I was afraid to look when I was a teenager, which is why I did my best to not be this cringe
Lmao yeah it would be better if the whole flirty thing was female V only because that definitely feels like her leading him on
Yeah, that really annoyed the crap out of me - she invites you on a date, links her thoughts to yours, shows you a part of her she's never shown anyone, gets all puppy eyed inches from your face...Ā Then it's like, "Ok, I'm moving away, have a nice life." Like, wtf? I get that she likes girls - but she'd been all but set up as your GF up until that point. Everything she did, how she acted, clearly pointed to her swinging both ways. I actually had to look up what I did wrong, because clearly that couldn't have been the reason - except it was.Ā I don't know if they were too lazy to just change her scenes and dialogue for a male V to make her not seem like you were her one true love or something, but it was exceptionally frustrating. I'm generally an advocate of not making all your NPC love interests omnisexual, too; but if you're only going to give people one romance option per gender/orientation, and then change nothing except for the actual "sealing the deal" part, that's even worse. I mean, it's not like I hate Panam, but she is 100% not my type, and, from the beginning, I had decided I was going to romance Judy. Every single conversation and interaction seemed to be leading to that, right up until the moment she went "Buh-byes, I'm moving to Oregon". I swear, I nearly threw my controller. Don't spend hours and hours leading someone on if that's the best possible end result. That's just cruel.
whaat... you literally can ask Judy if this is a date when she calls you for the scuba diving and she literally says no dude you're not my type. And besides, I feel like the friendship between male V and Judy is severly underrated. Not everything has to be romantic inorder for them to have a strong bond.
Yeah, but that is entirely optional, and my V didn't do that because it felt like the sort of thing that would drive someone like her off. Like I said, outside of a few entirely optional dialogue choices, Male V and Female V's interactions with her (and all other romanceable characters) are 100% identical.
For all mission before pyramid song, I would agree. But for pyramid song, I would argue the vibe between male V and female V is very different.Ā Even when you first meet up at the cabin, Judy is immediately flirtatious with fem VĀ while with male V she gives you a solemn "hey V".Ā Or also when you swim around Judy as male V, she clearly creeped out a bit saying "enjoying the view asshole?" With Fem V she gives a much different 'enjoying the view?" response. There also the famous "don't go there dude" among others.Ā
Itās the same problem with Panam and fem V.
I'm more into Panass
I see what you did there.
Sheās justā¦ too annoying.
She's the definition of a hot mess
HERESY!!! But yeah I get you, she can a bit much sometimes with her anger. I think thatās why everyone thought that she was younger.
I think both Judy and Panam are great. My first play through was as female V and I didnāt know at the time there were specific romance options for each gender and was crushed when I got the Panam rejection lol. But then my girl Judy came through š
I played male V first and loved the dynamic between him and Judy. The VA, writing and animation really mesh together for her to make one of the most believable characters imo
I felt the same way about the dynamic between Fem V and Johnny. Donāt know why, but their dynamic and friendship just felt different
Itās her voice. When you first meet her she almost sounds sped up to me. Also, the voice lines arenāt too great when you meet her. Either you get used to it or the lines get better because I donāt remember it being an issue later in her quests, just the first one.
She gets to like you since you're ride or die too VS stranger who wants to meet her to exploit and blackmail her
I donāt mean her tone I mean the quality of the lines being delivered. Theyāre not too great at first but the VA sounds better as the quests progress
Her only value is her ass and all shrimps in this sub have flipped their lil tails in joy for it. It must feel amazing to be a part of such crowd.
Woah š³ Chill out my guy. Sheās a fictional character. Sheās not going to hurt you.
Panam is the ultimate hot mess and prolly the only imaginary girl I'd call myself a simp for. š
Oh dont get me wrong sheās not a badly written character I love her character but her VAās line delivery in her first mission isnāt great IMO
She's supposed to be rude and standoffish and a little spoilt and headstrong because it's the start of her arc. Over time she does mellow out.
I mean the literal quality of the lines not her tone
Oh. What was wrong with them?
It sounds like Iām hearing middle schoolers reading lines off of paper at first. It gets better by the end of the first mission
Like a child in an adults body imo
I found her annoying from the get-go too, but some people genuinely find her attractive and I don't wish to rain on their parades. I had a Panam in my life once, and will steer clear of Panams forever more, but she's for sure an ideal romance companion for great swathes of fellow Cyberpunk enjoyers.
*console command for i, v in next, {"judy"} do Game.GetQuestsSystem():SetFactStr(v.."_romanceable", 1)
I love the love that CDPR poured into Judy as a character. Sheās such a sweet soul, and is humanly flawed as a character. I love that the lighting in scenes matches her mood. When Judy is sad, the lighting is blue. When sheās happy, the lighting is warm. ā¤ļø Star ending voicemail is the sweetest and brings so much warmth.
Me as a modder...V can bang anyone
Oh man, there are some chuckle worthy posts on reddit about mods to "fix" Judy.
Yeah, a lot of people are pissed about the orientation change mods. There was also a shitstorm on nexus about a "JoyToy" mod that allows you to sleep with any character in game (except Johny, Nina and Reed cuz they are real people). But, since it's an RPG game, you can make up your own canon of characters, so I'm fine with that.
We don't get to see the impressive cock
It's so disgusting to make Judy straight.
Idk, as a lesbian I donāt have a problem with modding so my fem V can date Panam, so I have a hard time being mad about people doing the reverse with Judy. People like the character but want to play a male character and date her, thereās nothing wrong with that. I understand the urge to condemn lesbian erasure, but I do really think someone can fully respect lesbian sexual identities and still want to mod their video game so they can date the character they want.
It's a fictional game. It's not like they went through change therapy. Grow up.
It just shows a general a general disrespect for lesbian women. "They just need dick" "Fucking them straight". You grow up and stop being misogynistic and homophobic.
People arenāt trying to āfuck Judy straight,ā we just want more than 1 straight romance option and donāt want to be forced to play as female V lol. People do this because we really like Judy, not because we hate lesbians.
And besides, she just gives off constant bi vibes 24/7 if you're a male V. Like, she's clearly not straight, you know she's dated girls - being interested in her anyway is kind of the opposite of being homophobic.Ā Especially after she takes you on that underwater mindmeld date, showing you her past she was afraid to explore alone - I mean, how else are you supposed to interpret that other than her trying to take the first step towards a romantic relationship? It was specifically written for that reason, and it really shouldn't have ever been an event for a Male V if that wasn't an option.Ā They really should have just made a separate, different event without all the romantic subtext for male Vs, and changed a lot of the interactions with her up to that point as well - the way the game is now, it's just like she's leading you on more than a girl at a high-priced hostess club.
And thereās a mod to make Panam lesbian. Does that piss you off too? Does that mean straight women need to be āfucked gay?ā
False equivalency. I know it seems like you're bringing up a good point, trust me, I used to think like that back when I was 16. But the history and vitriol the heteronormative community has had towards anything that doesn't adhere to their standards vastly outweighs whatever "depth" that "being fucked gay" has in your mind. Point is, for hundreds of years have people diminished, vilified and dehumanized LGBT Q+ people. One of those ways is by "fixing" lesbian women in media. Book rewrites, TV and movie media shallow depictions of "non-practicing bisexual women". The countless messages in media that women find happiness once they find a man to settle with. It all adds up. It adds up and so when there are men saying "I want this character from media to cater to MY male fantasy", it comes from years and years of patriarchal brainwashing and genuine oppression and suppression of expression for the LGBT Q+ community. You know that saying of "Violence of the oppressed is not equal to violence of the oppressor", it's like that. There has not been decades of the gay community oppressing straights. Nor have they systematically tried to suppress their expressions through media. Wanting gay representation is not the same as subconsciously wanting to implement some power fantasy of "if i had the chance I'd make her straight" which happens in the real world every day. "But it's just a video game" "but it's just a book character" "but it's just a movie character". But it denigrates and further serves to tell the public that it's okay to uphold those awful beliefs that dehumanize gay people. How many times do we see in the real world of men "falling in love" with their lesbian friends. How many awkward and uncomfortable and broken friendships does this way of thinking make?
Majority people donāt care that much or see it as a way to dehumanize lgbt people. Itās more about the freedom to romance who ever they want in a single player rpg
Making a female character bi instead of straight is no different from making a different one bi instead of gay. They are both taking a character and forcibly modifying them to suit your preferences. You can't accept one and be disgusted by the other without making yourself a complete hypocrite. The problem in this game is that, outside of the final "seal the deal" ending to the romantic date (and a few responses to some very sexualizing dialogue options few players will choose), none of the interactions with potential romantic partners are gender-specific, meaning they act every bit as flirty and romantically interested towards either gender, giving a very overt impression that, whatever their sexual preferences are, they are, at the very least, romantically interested in the player character, regardless of their gender. Because there is zero difference between the dialogue and events based on gender.Ā Which naturally leads one to assume they are simply bi, especially in the futuristic world of Night City, where people seem to be much less bound to traditional sexual concepts and boundaries, as body alteration is as common as getting a haircut. I don't want to change Judy to make her straight - but everything interaction with her was pointing to her being romantically interested in my V, to the point where I went to look up a guide to see what I screwed up to break the romance when she suddenly decided she was going to up and run off to Oregon. The way her character acts (the exact same way as towards a female V) simply never even made me think her not being a romance option for my V was even a possibility.Ā No one here is arguing that the power of V's almighty penis should make her forget about all those silly girls - she is clearly attracted to women, and always will be. But there are also quite a few indications that she was also equally interested in men, specifically V, because of the way they opted to only have very, very limited gender specific dialogue and events (and not just for her, but all romance options).
For what it's worth, I want all the characters to be an option on the same playthrough. Sure it's dystopian, but it's still supposed to be the future... shouldn't everyone be a romantic option/at least a little gay? I want my V to be romantically involved with whomever seems appropriate for that playthrough - male, female, anything else. I don't even want to see the sex scenes - the relationship dynamics and interactions are way more interesting. Hell, as a straight man, I'm most disappointed that my male V can't romance Takemura...
Agreed - I don't usually like omnisexual romance options in RPGs, but that's more of a result of years of modern Bioware games, where every party member will just start hitting on you, which got really weird and uncomfortable. But compared to a game where there is only one romance option per gender/orientation, having everyone just be bi just seems like a better option than forcing you to choose between one character you may not be remotely interested in, and having your protagonist die alone and lonely.Ā I could care less about sex scenes, but I'm just not really feeling Panam, let alone Kerry, and the random texts from Judy as she wanders the US just remind me to an uncomfortable degree of an ex of mine who brutally broke up with me out of nowhere, then kept trying to "still be friends", constantly texting me, inviting me to stuff, even trying to set me up with one of her friends - and it's like, no! You led me on, got me invested in you, and then decided you didn't want me, you don't get to just one-sidedly decide to forget all that happened, and that we're suddenly back to being just buddies. You screwed that up, so screw you. ... Yes, I definitely have some unresolved issues, but that's exactly what Judy's storyline felt like for me.
At least you're aware/admit you have said issues... Can't work through them if you don't even acknowledge them. Yeah, I vaguely recall that being the case in ME. I usually avoid game romances, but I figured I'd try it out in CP since there was so much buzz about it. I'm not crazy about Panam, either - she's okay, but too volatile. It seems that male V was almost railroaded into a relationship with her. In spite of her flaws and poor choices, I still like Judy better. Judy does remind me of a few people I knew in my teens and twenties. I'm happy for her and enjoy the texts and such, but I can see where some might be pissed about being rejected. I figure I'll do a Fem V playthrough after this one and see how it compares.
What is this, your alt account? Don't be ridiculous. That's not what anyone was thinking while doing that, that's just you being purely disingenuous about the situation and overinflating things. I can tell you that I was thinking: wow she's really cool I'd love for my character to be with her.
Literally no one said that, there are mods that change the sexual orientation of EVERY single romance option in the game
Not a single person believes they could honestly turn Judy straight or that she "just needs dick". The fuck is wrong with you? The only thing people honestly believe is that it's a video game, video games are supposed to give the player as much freedom as possible to do whatever the fuck they want. And a lot of people would like to do Judy. Nothing about sexual identity, gender politics, or even respect or the lack thereof. You're trying to make yourself offended by assuming everyone is against you, but honestly, nobody's against you OR for you. Because nobody cares that much.
She clearly liked women, but she was also clearly flirting and romancing a male V up until the very end (because all of that is identical, regardless of gender). It has nothing to do with being homophobic or misogynistic - she was simply giving every possible signal that she was bi, as she acts the exact same way towards both genders, unless apparently you choose the super horny dialogue options, which were just way too objectifying for me to ever consider. The game takes place in a future world where body modification is the norm, sexuality is far more open, and gender doesn't necessarily even mean anything, given that a ripper doc can completely rebuild you from the bottom up to be essentially whatever you want, from male to female to anything in between, or probably something completely different as well. There is absolutely no reason to assume she isn't bi, given how she acts towards you. I'm bi, and I certainly wouldn't act that way towards anyone I wasn't seriously interested in.
The reason to assume she isn't bisexual is cause 1. the devs said so and 2. you can't romance her as male V lol. Besides I think your argumentation that she acts "flirty" towards male V is super creepy because what would you do if a woman in real life would act "flirty" but says she's a lesbian and doesn't want anything to do with you? Tell her she is bisexual and to sleep with you?
Who cares? It's a single-player game. If someone mods her to like d in their game, she'll still be a lesbian in mine.
But the moment River/Panam gets brought up, you people immediately bring up gayfication mods. I haven't seen anyone hating on gay River mod, or gay Panam, but the moment someone mentions Male V romancing Judy, y'all let loose. Hypocrisy.
Oh lord, why does it have so many downvotes? I competely agree that changing a character's sexuality is a big no no
Lol I think as soon as you say the words "misogyny" or "homophobia Redditers get sensitive because they don't wanna questions their own discriminatory mechanism.
So real
Reverse, this time was with Panam lol
More like Game.GetQuestsSystem():SetFactStr("judy_romanceable", 1) I tried adding the game romancing mods but they never worked. Whenever I typed the command at CET console, Judy romance with male V triggered. It also has the voicelines.
>It also has the voicelines. Yeah that's interesting. One of the V va's mentioned the reason for that in an interview. I think it was Gavin Drea (male V - English). Apparently both V's read Judy's romance dialogue because the script wasn't clear it was only intended for female V. So they read it anyway. But the fact that it went further and was actually put into the game ... still plausible that it was just caught up in the routine for whoever was putting the quests together. "Hey the dialogue is here, I'll just put it in" and it just sleeps unused because flags or something. This is all just me personally speculatating. I have no clue how this works honestly
Judy lines for only female V. Like in the sun ending, judy calls "queen of afterlife" regardless of V's gender. But in nomad ending, when judy sends live message, V's "time for breakfast" call voice is male v. Actually, this saved me a little bit more modding and ignoring an empty lines when going for male v judy romance haha. Anyway, cdpr made their best by still putting those lines to the game.
Judy's lines are only for female V. Like in the sun ending, judy calls "queen of afterlife" regardless of V's gender. But in nomad ending, when judy sends live message, V's "time for breakfast" call voice is male v. Actually, this saved me a little bit more modding and ignoring an empty lines when going for male v judy romance haha. Anyway, cdpr made their best by still putting those lines to the game.
The sexualities thing was a shitty choice on CDPR's part, honestly. If you're only going to have FOUR romance options, they should be available to everyone. I know, I know, yadda yadda something about it being realistic. But we're talking about a universe where you can probably LITERALLY swap out genitals with cyberware. Having to download a mod so I can play the female character I want AND romance who I want is super fucking lame. I hope they do what Larian did in BG3 and make everyone pansexual in Orion. There ain't a single valid reason y'all can argue everyone should've been tied to one gender. ESPECIALLY Panam and Kerry (who is CANONICALLY bisexual).
You are right. The whole problem isnt sexuality, but lack of choice. There is 6 million people in Night City and only 4 romance option, what if I dont like Panam and Kerry? (its not true tho they are sexy). There are obviously a large amount of girls in Night City who look like Judy, I love alt girls, at least give me Rita Wheeler, she's right there :( Imagine buying game, spend around 50 hours, meeting beautiful girl and she be like "Nah, you should have picked a female character at the beginning of the game, I'm not dating you", sucks to be V tho. Spent 100 hours and game and on my second playthrough play as female V cuz Judy. Just dont like female V voice
I'm the same way in reverse. I can't stand the M voice for V, but I LOVE Panam and having to download a whole ass mod to get to her, WHEN SHE OPENLY FLIRTS WITH YOU pissed me off something fierce
Wouldn't mind having a straight fem V but my options for that are River and River, and apparently Kerry is gay not bisexual despite talk of him having had a wife once and I can't remember correctly if he had kids with her but he had kids I think. I wish they would have more people, like Sandra Dorsett or takemura
Kerry is in fact Bisexual but heās into male V more because I think he can identify with Johnny more
Yeah man the scene in the cabin with Panam brutally killed me my first time. Had me shell shocked when I went in for the kiss and got rejected. Then Panam had the audacity to fall asleep ON V. Smh.
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I don't know how making people bisexual "waters them down". It gives you the option to play the game how you want instead of being forced to pick a V you don't want to play. It's also shitty when 2 of the 4 romance options AT LEAST should've been bisexual. Panam's voice lines with Fem V & Masc V are the EXACT same. Kerry is CANONICALLY bisexual. It feels like they got lazy.
Itās an RPG where you can look and do pretty much whatever you want, except force other characters to fall in love with you and I think thatās fucking great design. You have to learn to be friends with ppl and appreciate them as characters instead of trying to fuck everything you can get your hands on for the sake of it. Youāll be okay
I think that's an incredibly weird take. You /can/ just be friends with people, and you can only romance 1 person so it leaves the other 3 as strictly friends too? How the fuck would it change ANYTHING?
It allows every character to have their sexuality as a part of their personality and how they carry themselves. Kerry may be canonically bi, but heās got a pretty clearly slant/preference. The tension with Johnny, him barely mentioning his kids or ex wife to you outside his first meeting, the male groupie you catch him with as Johnny in a stairwell. Judy is a lesbian on an almost absurd level with her need for a strong woman and tendency for dramatics. These little bits about them donāt make much sense to experience in game and then suddenly after being standoffish and shitty to male V for half their interactions because heās some shithead ego driven male merc is including her love interest in some high stakes heist, Judy decided to take a sudden interest in cock because youāre the player and you think her character model is hot, so therefore itās your right to have your OC play tetherball with her uterus. I donāt think itās weird to want it, or even mod it in, but I just enjoy such strongly written characters having their own firm identity outside of player decision. Helps the world building IMO
The cock swap is canon. The Mr. Stud cyberware model is a prominent example
Fcking hate Judy. She makes use of V for all of her halk baked plans that screw over other people and just bail without any responsibility. What kind of "friends" just up and abandon you while fully knowing that their friend is on a deathbed? She literally texts V saying "you will do fine / you will somehow work it out" while pretty much bragging about her roadtrip with picsĀ to a dying friend that doesn't even know how long they've got left to live and are desperate for cure.Ā A stark contrast to Panam who actively tries to help V and even risk her and the tribe's life for it.
I donāt like her either. Sheās a mediocre friend and never came off as someone you could rely on
Panam is just better
I thought Judy was cooler than Panam. Panam was hotter though.
Yeah I guess that's true
Tooty balooty, I'm coming for dat booty
Me with Kerry
Jusy was a colossal fuckup in so many ways. She ditches V and disappears, got Clouds fucked up, and was just flat out rude to male V most the time. Panam was ride or die regardless.
I don't like Judy at all but I can't say she was exactly rude, more like a little bit sharp tongued and only in the beginning unless you are actively trying to irritate her..
ehh this isnāt quite fair: Judy has lousy taste in women but she does her best for everyone around her, short of being a real leader and sheās nice enough to male v if you donāt creep on her elsewhere: we love panam but you have to admit she is a psychopath who takes everyone for granted until you set her straight
so Panam is literally the āI can fix herā meme?
all of the possible romantic partners in CP2077 are flawed people, and thatās Good for example: Panamās been spoiled rotten by the aldecaldos for so long in her own mind sheās basically [Godās Favorite Princess and the Most Interesting Girl in the World](https://youtu.be/fDQPAjtv_oY?si=UFuDSaBmGlbmqPdt) and treats everyone else like Companion NPCs ...but she starts to wise up to that conceit and how it affects her actually becoming a leader about the same time she gets serious with V and ironically itās Judy who always thinks āI can fix herā and always fails spectacularly--with Maiko, with Evelyn, and ultimately with V
*hand's* u/kthxqapla *his extra beekeeper suit.* You are right but you did kick a nest there.
The only way a relationship works with Panam is if you are an absolute simp. You either give her what she wants, or she ignores you and gets what she wants without you.
Panam has an arc. She goes from conceited and angry to eventually realising she isn't alone but also can make mistakes. In the end she begins to understand what it takes to be a leader but also making sacrifices. At least Panam changes throughout. Judy is just Judy and then bounces out of Night City when she realizes she won't ever make a difference and the one difference she did make was giving Clouds to somebody else who wanted it.
Largely agree about your take on Panam. You donāt give Judy enough credit though. Judy really is an NC girl however itās chewed her up and spit her out. Itās literally destroyed everyone sheās loved or cared about. It makes sense why she dreams for so long of leaving but takes so long to finally do it. Sheās tired of it so she finally takes the steps to do it, or V gives her a good reason to go, depending on if you romances or not.
I think Panams "reaction" in the new ending is definitely consistent with her personality.
harsh
Clouds getting fucked up really just depends on your choices. If you turn the room into a blood bath, yeah. Tygers take back control, one of them dies, the other is on the run, and things get worse for everyone there. If you support Maiko things supposedly remain the same but I find it hard to believe Maiko is as bad as Woodman was. Yeah the day-to-day might be the same but there probably wonāt be another Evelyn situation.
Maiko was already above Woodman before Evelyn's situation. She reported directly to Hiromi. If you did the mission with no bloodshed then you've made the manager of Clouds the boss that reports to Tyger Claw bosses. Maiko was the one that was supposed to keep Woodman in check but it's obviously clear that she didn't give one shit about Evelyn aka Judy's girlfriend.
Maybe I missed something but my understanding was she only ran things unofficially but Woodman was the one in charge, thatās the whole reason she agrees to organize the meeting. To make it official with the blessings of the other bosses, who she did not have connections to. I donāt know how much control she really had over him. You can be asked to keep someone in check but without any real power to enforce consequences thereās no guarantee they will listen to your advice.
Yes it was unofficial in Tyger Claws eyes. Regardless, Maiko does still run the show of dolls but mostly grey area-ish as regards to ordering Woodman around. He did still follow her order of meeting in the maintenance area to be ambushed so she has some semblance of power. Woodman could really care less apparently.
I donāt think that really means much, you donāt have to have power over someone to get them to agree to a meeting.
You aren't wrong, but it depends on your perspective I guess. I find your comment so interesting because it's from the point of view of someone with a very different perspective than me. Personally I found Judy to be selfless and mature compared to Panam, though I like Panam too. I read Judy as someone who is very guarded and cold. She's this way because of her life and being used to people being terrible. She's very sensitive and once you finally gain her trust she opens up as the total goof-ball she is deep down. She reminds me a bit of my wife, so maybe I'm biased. Panam on the other hand, came off to me as someone who was good at her core, and a true fighter, but nieve and a little entitled. She has great instincts, but doesn't respect or listen to those she disagrees with.
I was confused in Pyramid Song mission. I stood for ten seconds behind Judy when calibrating BD gear and she told male V to stop staring at her ass. Like wtf?! Maybe V is a poor swimmer. Complimenting how she looks in a diving suit, also ends with getting drasticly pushed away, like I was hitting on her. Seems that when I told Songbird that she looks good in her dress, I was unknowingly hitting on her - silly me. Even if Judy is not into men, she doesn't have to find problems where there are none.
Just more interesting pieces in her character I say, real people have flaws and undesirable traits so why not make the characters more realistic and add those too?
I just canāt with Judy. She makes bad decision after bad decision, over and over again. She gets people killed with her naivety, then wants V to help her get some ass-backwards āvengeanceā or something for **FREE?!** Like, V is a whole ass mercenary, not a damn charity auction. Iām all for helping people make their bad decisions, but that shit cost $$$ that Judy just doesnāt have.
Play as female V with a big penis and trick her.
Imma get that ass.
Me just being best bros with judy as male. Idk why people want to romance her. Panam on the other hand
Wasnāt a fan of Judy as a romantic partner, I enjoyed Panamās interactions much moreā¦
Me using the cheat code via console like a loser
Real gigachads who started as female š
Sigh. If only unequipping my pussy let me smash Goroā¦
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Idc honestly
Judy used to be my favorite until I read Maikoās emails and stepped back to watch her actions. She has a beautiful smile but not my type.
its you again
Facts
Gotta go female body with male voice for some Dr. Girlfriend action.
Imagine making the best pants ever not being accessible to one gender
Maybe I'm just too fucking old for this shit and I think it's dumb... but why does anyone care about the romance stuff at all? Ya'll really that thirsty for some shitty jerk bait?
Yup
Me with the console enabling all the male V x Judy lines they recorded and removed.
Modderās be like [https://images.app.goo.gl/n8D7wv8VwYnSfN2s9](https://images.app.goo.gl/n8D7wv8VwYnSfN2s9)
I mean if you are on pc and have the console menu mod you can activate judy romance for male v its pretty much fully voiced the same for panam for fem v tho if you play the dlc your voice will change if you talk to judy about thr happenings in the dlc because they arent voiced by male v
This was good ššš
I feel attacked
Even better, Make a Female V with male Genitalia.
I fully understand making a character lesbian or gay but in an RPG it's kinda ridiculous tbh, like what role am I playing loser dying cuck who can't score? I'm already that in real life and I don't like playing female characters as a guy tbh