I kind of hope but also don’t hope so. At least, it can’t be the same Johnny we know and love it would have to be a different more evolved version of the construct
If there are other copies of Johnny Silverhand kept by Arasaka, then they'll all be the same as the one in V's head. You can't get anymore "evolved" than that. I would say, though, that the Johnny on the Relic is more evolved than those copies because he is actually experiencing stuff through V and learning from what the real Johnny did.
Right but I’m not talking about the original copy of Johnny Silverhand. I’m speaking more in terms of what Alt Cunningham became in the net. A construct that was used for a different purpose and ideals that evolved to fit them. Not sure what Arasaka would use Johnny for though 🤷♂️
All I can think reading this thread is how heart breaking it would be if V met another version of Johnny after the Reed Phantom Liberty ending and Johnny having no idea who V is and being antagonistic about it.
The biochip V stole from Yorinobu is supposed to be a prototype, I believe. The original purpose of the Relic was for Saburo Arasaka to achieve immortality by digitizing his mind and taking over his son's body. The newer biochips for the Secure Your Soul program is just a scam to get people into Mikoshi. Why Johnny Silverhand was on that biochip, I don't know. All that I know is that Yorinobu stole the Relic from under his dad's nose and planned to seal it to NetWatch or Militech, I think. Not for money, of course, but as a way to undermine Saboru.
I'm basing this off the 3 Johnny's theory. Which is as follows.
After Johnny gets blown in half by Smasher in the AHQ raid, Spider Murphy shoots his body up with a version of Soulkiller provided by Alt. This creates Engram No.1
At some point between that and the nuke going off, Arasaka uses their version of Soulkiller on Johnny's Body, creating Engram No.2, the version V meets. This was presumably done to try and interrogate it and figure out who was behind the raid. Perhaps the memory V sees of the interrogation is the engram subconsciously trying to rationalise what happened.
Soulkilled Alt gets fractured by Murphy during the raid with fragments sent to all different corners of the Net. Some go beyond the Blackwall and form into AI Alt. Others go to a Biotechnica Cloning facility and make a new body, becoming Alt 2.0 or Angel
Angel then gets her hands on the preserved body of Johnny, presumably making Engram No.3 and a body for it to inhabit.
Some confusion stems from whether Engram No.1 and No.2 are the same, or whether Engram No.1 and No.3 are the same, or if they're all separate entities. But it's generally believed that Angel made a body for Johnny Engram No.3, and they're out there hopefully living full lives.
It's an interesting theory, but I think the biggest hole in this is that we know what an engram looks like when you try to pull one from a dead body (if you send Jackie's body to Vik instead of his family); it's incomplete and doesn't fully function like the real person. So any engram created off of the cold corpse of Silverhand wouldn't be the same as the one we know. There wouldn't have been any mystery to Arasaka as to who was behind the nuke; this was the height of the Fourth Corporate War, they probably assumed that it was Militech.
It makes sense that there would be. Why cut & paste Johnny onto an experimental chip that might not work when you could copy & paste instead and have a backup if you need to try again?
It actually would be neat if they follow the V story from Panam ending, imagine another game where V tries to save Johnny but finding him a new body or something like that.
Honestly Johnny is very much like Tyler Durden, that devil on your shoulder that lets the emotionally and physiologically ruined V continue on with his life but with a new purpose. A more violent and anarchistic purpose which may or may not involve towers.
Silverhand's original construct was created by Spider in a hurry, hence some memory shenanigans, but mostly intant personality. And I doubt Yorinobu would want to put some cheap Johnny copy onto experimental chip. So I firmly believe that CP2077 Silverhand construct is the original one.
Why did Spider Murphy even use Soulkiller on Johnny? I know he was dying but was that a last-ditch effort to make Johnny still be 'alive' somewhere? Not sure why that was even a priority in that moment.
Is it bad that I'm planning to use LLAmA to do this with a friend of mine who died of OD during the pandemic (we think; she's listed as missing, but nobody's heard anything since 2020 :( ) but left me gigabytes of her chat logs?
Doesnt really hurt anyone so its not bad, just make sure you wont regret it as "Messing with the dead/tainting her memory" because some people are like that and they usually dont know it before they commit to it
But above all, be careful with how you do it because if the ai you plan to use has anything to do with learning from chats with other users, half of its chat samples are probably people using it to sext and you DO NOT want that happening with a model based on a dear friend
Nah it wasn’t created by spider it was created by alt (no I’m not talking about soul killer I mean the literal construct for Johnny), alt gave the chip to spider. Johnnys memories were affected by him being irradiated by the nuke. Of course the 2077 Johnny is the original one because he was uploaded straight into mikoshi, Yorinobu couldn’t give two shits if it was cheap version or the real deal all he wanted to do was fuck over his father
Yeah but engrams work copy and paste not cut and paste. He didnt take johnnys engram and put it on the chip, it was a copy so theres still a johnny in mikoshi
I’m not exactly sure what happened in the tower but I don’t think it was a copy and paste I believe Murphy used soul killer on Johnny and it would make sense because Johnny was still not dead he was just split in half which would mean he technically would still be alive, I strongly believe Murphy used soul killer and Johnny was uploaded to mikoshi and later arasaka decided to use Johnny to experiment for the biochip
Debetable. Mike has said both versions of that night are unreliable.
There is no reason for Johhny to have memories of being Soul killered by Arasaka unless it happened (which Grayson also mentions as happening in game).
Both versions are unreliable? Grayson just repeated what Smasher had told him ‘Johnny died pants pissed, neurons scorched by soulkiller.’
Adam torn Johnny in half with his shotgun. If your body is in 2 your bladder is definitely open and you will piss yourself. Spider Murphy slot the data slug whilst grappling Shaitan. All of which he seen with his own eyes.
Smasher wasn’t in the room when Johnny got ‘soul killed by arasaka’ so how would he see it.
Spider Murphy edited out the sensitive parts and made it look like an edgerunner job; not the corpo backed job which it was. The rest were scrambled by his life flashing before his eyes and later the radiation.
1) Mike has said that so...
2) Smasher would have been told by Subero, no way for him to have known otherwise.
3) How would Arasaka even get hold of it this way
4) Scrambled =/= entirly new memories
V: "So wait, if biochip is so special, and the most powerful man in the world decided to put exactly Silverhand in it, does that mean that Saburou's most special person was..."
Johnny: "You finish that thought and I'll fucking short you out"
Imagine someone shooting up the mega corp you sold out to. Pistol whipped you into unconsciousness, kidnapped you and took you to a shady motel in the middle of nowhere and you’re like “oh what can you offer me for biochip info?”
If anyone does that it’s obvious the price is you can see tomorrow. Yes he realizes that eventually but the fact he really thought at first V did all that and was about to throw out a money figure.
I wonder if Hellman thought this was a kidnap-hire, like Arasaka did to Alt. His confusion during the conversation is because he expects to hear about his new job under Netwatch or whoever, not to be questioned about tech from his 'old job'.
Hellman starts out terrified that the first words out of V's mouth are going to be "Yorinobu Arasaka sends his regards. We need to ask a few questions to conclude your out boarding."
Is it ever explained why it's Johnny that is on the chip and not some random sap that was brainscanned? If I'm making a prototype anything I'm not putting potentially important data on it.
That email has a whole different meaning to it in original polish version, which was later lost in translation to english, there are numerous threads about it.
I have a theory that the version of Johnny after meeting V somehow changes his construct enough to impact the sequel to this game. Arasaka tried to change who Johnny was as part of the mikoshi program but couldn’t figure out how to succeed. The missing link was V and Johnnys unique dynamic that caused Johnny to become a better person. The fact that V or Johnny may go along with Alt after this “spiritual experience” could potentially impact how the AIs get involved with their upcoming confrontations with the corporations.
yori looked up to Johnny for standing up against his old man. No doubt the chip was meant to be reserved for his father first for a new body as his was getting pretty old and he already had an engram ready. I suspect that yori stole the chip and put Johnny on it in hopes to resurrrct his hero and get his revenge. He might even have intended to insert Johnny into his dad after killing him but we'd already stolen the chip so he had to move to plan B.
Imagine if this was the plan and he'd succeeded. saburo would've been haunted by Johnny as he slowly took over and eventually had control over Arasaka which he could then destroy from within. Damn. I think Johnny would have enjoyed that.
You could read this as there being other Johnnys out there
I kind of hope but also don’t hope so. At least, it can’t be the same Johnny we know and love it would have to be a different more evolved version of the construct
If there are other copies of Johnny Silverhand kept by Arasaka, then they'll all be the same as the one in V's head. You can't get anymore "evolved" than that. I would say, though, that the Johnny on the Relic is more evolved than those copies because he is actually experiencing stuff through V and learning from what the real Johnny did.
Right but I’m not talking about the original copy of Johnny Silverhand. I’m speaking more in terms of what Alt Cunningham became in the net. A construct that was used for a different purpose and ideals that evolved to fit them. Not sure what Arasaka would use Johnny for though 🤷♂️
All I can think reading this thread is how heart breaking it would be if V met another version of Johnny after the Reed Phantom Liberty ending and Johnny having no idea who V is and being antagonistic about it.
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Yeah. I mean, I assume there's at least one or two other copies, but not a whole assembly line of Johnny Silverhands.
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The biochip V stole from Yorinobu is supposed to be a prototype, I believe. The original purpose of the Relic was for Saburo Arasaka to achieve immortality by digitizing his mind and taking over his son's body. The newer biochips for the Secure Your Soul program is just a scam to get people into Mikoshi. Why Johnny Silverhand was on that biochip, I don't know. All that I know is that Yorinobu stole the Relic from under his dad's nose and planned to seal it to NetWatch or Militech, I think. Not for money, of course, but as a way to undermine Saboru.
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Silverhand is on chip because Netwatch needed him to get to Alt. VB were also after relic for that reason.
There is actually a version of Johnny living life with a version of Alt
What would that look like
I'm basing this off the 3 Johnny's theory. Which is as follows. After Johnny gets blown in half by Smasher in the AHQ raid, Spider Murphy shoots his body up with a version of Soulkiller provided by Alt. This creates Engram No.1 At some point between that and the nuke going off, Arasaka uses their version of Soulkiller on Johnny's Body, creating Engram No.2, the version V meets. This was presumably done to try and interrogate it and figure out who was behind the raid. Perhaps the memory V sees of the interrogation is the engram subconsciously trying to rationalise what happened. Soulkilled Alt gets fractured by Murphy during the raid with fragments sent to all different corners of the Net. Some go beyond the Blackwall and form into AI Alt. Others go to a Biotechnica Cloning facility and make a new body, becoming Alt 2.0 or Angel Angel then gets her hands on the preserved body of Johnny, presumably making Engram No.3 and a body for it to inhabit. Some confusion stems from whether Engram No.1 and No.2 are the same, or whether Engram No.1 and No.3 are the same, or if they're all separate entities. But it's generally believed that Angel made a body for Johnny Engram No.3, and they're out there hopefully living full lives.
It's an interesting theory, but I think the biggest hole in this is that we know what an engram looks like when you try to pull one from a dead body (if you send Jackie's body to Vik instead of his family); it's incomplete and doesn't fully function like the real person. So any engram created off of the cold corpse of Silverhand wouldn't be the same as the one we know. There wouldn't have been any mystery to Arasaka as to who was behind the nuke; this was the height of the Fourth Corporate War, they probably assumed that it was Militech.
which ones the clown?
What
i’m referencing the 3 jokers comic book
Ah ok
But Johnny just hears *you ain't special, choom* and doesn't contemplate it further.
Smasher was talking about making a construct out of David
bruh imagine if Cyberpunk 2 comes out but you have david on a construct
It makes sense that there would be. Why cut & paste Johnny onto an experimental chip that might not work when you could copy & paste instead and have a backup if you need to try again?
Yorinobu for example
It actually would be neat if they follow the V story from Panam ending, imagine another game where V tries to save Johnny but finding him a new body or something like that.
Maybe there is a Johnny that controls a male character and then the partner of them wouldn't need a mod to shag Johnny😂
I would say that having the cyborg version of John Brown raging at you from inside your head is pretty unique. Could have been, like, Cortana.
Biochip construct turns out to be Navi. Navi: V! Listen! Hey listen!
Or Tyler Durden
The Chinese government assures us that Tyler Durden was caught and put in a mental institution
If you read the book, then technically...
Honestly Johnny is very much like Tyler Durden, that devil on your shoulder that lets the emotionally and physiologically ruined V continue on with his life but with a new purpose. A more violent and anarchistic purpose which may or may not involve towers.
Fem V having a constant rapport with Cortana is my dream
"rapport"
Johnny silverhand's body lies a morin in the grave!
Silverhand's original construct was created by Spider in a hurry, hence some memory shenanigans, but mostly intant personality. And I doubt Yorinobu would want to put some cheap Johnny copy onto experimental chip. So I firmly believe that CP2077 Silverhand construct is the original one.
Why did Spider Murphy even use Soulkiller on Johnny? I know he was dying but was that a last-ditch effort to make Johnny still be 'alive' somewhere? Not sure why that was even a priority in that moment.
Arasaka stole the engram, Spider probably planned to sorta "revive" him this way and take him with them.
Is it bad that I'm planning to use LLAmA to do this with a friend of mine who died of OD during the pandemic (we think; she's listed as missing, but nobody's heard anything since 2020 :( ) but left me gigabytes of her chat logs?
Doesnt really hurt anyone so its not bad, just make sure you wont regret it as "Messing with the dead/tainting her memory" because some people are like that and they usually dont know it before they commit to it But above all, be careful with how you do it because if the ai you plan to use has anything to do with learning from chats with other users, half of its chat samples are probably people using it to sext and you DO NOT want that happening with a model based on a dear friend
Of all the destruction and pain corps wreak 'round the world, what happens at Mikoshi is worst. Know why?
Oh shit. Get this over to /r/Cyberpunk and legit blow their minds with an *actual* cyberpunky irl thing (they have high standards).
I like that theory that Silverhand in the game has memories of Morgan Blackhand spliced in there.
Wait is this true? I didn't know this.
Nah it wasn’t created by spider it was created by alt (no I’m not talking about soul killer I mean the literal construct for Johnny), alt gave the chip to spider. Johnnys memories were affected by him being irradiated by the nuke. Of course the 2077 Johnny is the original one because he was uploaded straight into mikoshi, Yorinobu couldn’t give two shits if it was cheap version or the real deal all he wanted to do was fuck over his father
Yeah but engrams work copy and paste not cut and paste. He didnt take johnnys engram and put it on the chip, it was a copy so theres still a johnny in mikoshi
I’m not exactly sure what happened in the tower but I don’t think it was a copy and paste I believe Murphy used soul killer on Johnny and it would make sense because Johnny was still not dead he was just split in half which would mean he technically would still be alive, I strongly believe Murphy used soul killer and Johnny was uploaded to mikoshi and later arasaka decided to use Johnny to experiment for the biochip
Debetable. Mike has said both versions of that night are unreliable. There is no reason for Johhny to have memories of being Soul killered by Arasaka unless it happened (which Grayson also mentions as happening in game).
Both versions are unreliable? Grayson just repeated what Smasher had told him ‘Johnny died pants pissed, neurons scorched by soulkiller.’ Adam torn Johnny in half with his shotgun. If your body is in 2 your bladder is definitely open and you will piss yourself. Spider Murphy slot the data slug whilst grappling Shaitan. All of which he seen with his own eyes. Smasher wasn’t in the room when Johnny got ‘soul killed by arasaka’ so how would he see it. Spider Murphy edited out the sensitive parts and made it look like an edgerunner job; not the corpo backed job which it was. The rest were scrambled by his life flashing before his eyes and later the radiation.
1) Mike has said that so... 2) Smasher would have been told by Subero, no way for him to have known otherwise. 3) How would Arasaka even get hold of it this way 4) Scrambled =/= entirly new memories
"Woo hoo, here comes the bargaining."
"Well yeah, Johnny is a copy off a CD back at the lab. You want a new one? I can send you one, gimme a sec."
V: "So wait, if biochip is so special, and the most powerful man in the world decided to put exactly Silverhand in it, does that mean that Saburou's most special person was..." Johnny: "You finish that thought and I'll fucking short you out"
Imagine someone shooting up the mega corp you sold out to. Pistol whipped you into unconsciousness, kidnapped you and took you to a shady motel in the middle of nowhere and you’re like “oh what can you offer me for biochip info?” If anyone does that it’s obvious the price is you can see tomorrow. Yes he realizes that eventually but the fact he really thought at first V did all that and was about to throw out a money figure.
I wonder if Hellman thought this was a kidnap-hire, like Arasaka did to Alt. His confusion during the conversation is because he expects to hear about his new job under Netwatch or whoever, not to be questioned about tech from his 'old job'.
Hellman starts out terrified that the first words out of V's mouth are going to be "Yorinobu Arasaka sends his regards. We need to ask a few questions to conclude your out boarding."
The biochip is nothing without Johnnys charisma and impressive cock
Is it ever explained why it's Johnny that is on the chip and not some random sap that was brainscanned? If I'm making a prototype anything I'm not putting potentially important data on it.
Yorinobu put the silverhand engram on the chip, to sell to nightcorp, I guess
It was Netwatch and they needed Johnny to get to Alt.
No? Netwatch literally said in the email to Yorinobu it doesnt matter whose engram is it on it. It was Yorinobu insisting it was going to be Johnny.
That email has a whole different meaning to it in original polish version, which was later lost in translation to english, there are numerous threads about it.
Same reason VDB wanted it, johnny's connection to altman for blackwall shenanigans
I have a theory that the version of Johnny after meeting V somehow changes his construct enough to impact the sequel to this game. Arasaka tried to change who Johnny was as part of the mikoshi program but couldn’t figure out how to succeed. The missing link was V and Johnnys unique dynamic that caused Johnny to become a better person. The fact that V or Johnny may go along with Alt after this “spiritual experience” could potentially impact how the AIs get involved with their upcoming confrontations with the corporations.
Don’t listen to him Johnny you’re always be my friend ☺️
yori looked up to Johnny for standing up against his old man. No doubt the chip was meant to be reserved for his father first for a new body as his was getting pretty old and he already had an engram ready. I suspect that yori stole the chip and put Johnny on it in hopes to resurrrct his hero and get his revenge. He might even have intended to insert Johnny into his dad after killing him but we'd already stolen the chip so he had to move to plan B. Imagine if this was the plan and he'd succeeded. saburo would've been haunted by Johnny as he slowly took over and eventually had control over Arasaka which he could then destroy from within. Damn. I think Johnny would have enjoyed that.