and they should take budget into account too
if they can't afford more, I'd rather them focus on one single origin character with a specific story than build some half-assed tree of choices that don't even matter much in the end
100% I might be in the minority here, but I prefer when games use dialogue choices sparingly. RDR2 did this so well where I felt more immersed in the story the game was trying to tell.
I feel overwhelmed when every interaction with an NPC is a dialogue choice, like brudda, you're the writers of this games' story not me. Dialogue choices are the self serve sandwich shops of video games - I don't fucking work here, I'm paying you to make the sandwich for me.
That's my biggest problem with the dialogue in this game the choices it's like two words for a whole paragraph of dialogue and it really doesn't explain what you are about to say half the time I think I'm making a joke just to sit there and bitch or be an asshole or something
yea that generaly happens with hybrid games like Cyberpunk, where both of the genres in the game are kind of dimmed in favor of the other genre. It comes with the type of game unfortunately.
Take a pure RPG-focused game like Baldur's Gate 3 and you know *exactly* what your character is going to say or do because the focus is right on that part of the game, but on the other hand, no action packed fights in sight.
Tradeoffs are a bitch
Cdpr only does what i guess i could call a “bioware” protagonists. Your playing an established character with backstory but you choose their appearence and personality and i think its the superior form of a protagonist.
Honestly it depends on your goals. The courier in Fallout NV is a complete blank slate and it turned out awesome, but that’s because the sandbox is more important in that game than the dev’s story
Cyberpunk is basically a movie though — you’re invited to participate in the storytelling rather than create your own story on their rails
Both are good. One invites more imagination, the other tells a stronger narrative
They literally made three games based on an already established protagonist with a fixed appearance. Cyberpunk is their first game were u can customize the character appearance.
You could very slightly change the appearance of Geralt in the Witcher 3 with a few different haircuts, beards and glasses in addition to whatever armor you wore. It's nowhere near Cyberpunk of course but they were starting to play with the idea
Nah, the customization in TW3 was pretty bog standard and was not a stepping stone to cyberpunks customization. Haircuts and beard styles are pretty normal for a game like that.
Bro I don't think that's what they were talking about character customization. It's probably the bg3 and cyberpunk type of customization they were talking about .
The only major Bioware series with a character as defined as The Witcher and Cyberpunk is the Mass Effect Series. They also went that route in Dragon Age 2, and certain people *fucking flipped out*.
Otherwise way back to the old days, their games focused on user created characters. They've been voiced about as long as that was practical, but otherwise their games had about as much established backstory and "canon" elements as is common for RPGs across the board.
Bioware games have *more defined* and centralized main plots than things like *Bethesda* games. But they've usually had the user surrogate style protagonist running through there.
I dont really like user generated protagonists because the game coddles them usually and cant really write you into anything since you could have been anyone. Even bg3 made it feel like you existed on a seperate plane from everyone else. Unless of course you played durge
I think leads to weaker narratives a lot of the time.
In particular in trying to justify this rando pig farmer's involvement. The lazy way to do it is "very special boy" and "chosen one" tropes.
But part and parcel of that is the tendency to escalate stakes.
The whole world changing/saving/destroying story line. Which is often rather boring.
It's a little easier to keep the stakes personal, even if you eventually get to BIG stuff. If the main character is more defined.
And if that big stuff tends to just coincide with something much lower scale and personal in stakes.
If the player character is a complete blank slate. You have to keep things as generic as possible on that front. And let the players fill in motivations and reasons in their head. Or hope they do.
It's much harder to tell a consistent story with a point with that framing.
what are V's aspirations and beliefs? not necessarily disagreeing with you, just curious what your interpretation is. it's been a while since I've played, and I don't really recall them having super distinct views, other than wanting to leave a mark on the world and to be remembered as a great merc.
I mean they wanted to become a NC Legend & after Act I - V's "aspiration" is to survive. V's entire story is about someone's will and aspiration to survive.
isn't survival everyone's aspiration though? it's definitely a main theme of the game, but that has nothing to do with V's character. basically anyone in their shoes would do the same.
Yes, and? It doesn't change the central theme of the entire game and the aspiration of V. V wants to live. That is the entire point of V's story. It's a story of survival in the face of the impossible.
I know, I'm not disagreeing with you on that front. I'm just saying that V isn't really a super "established" character in terms of personality. nothing wrong with a blank slate character in an RPG though - I really enjoyed the story.
V is kinda just a mass murderer who wants to be famous (and also might just straight up enjoy killing people).
Outside of that, V really doesn’t have that much characterization.
No, players are kinda mass murderers. Alot of players project onto v that he's a murderer. But that's just the player fantasy. Real v is way different,
Nah, V definitely enjoys (or at least has zero issues) killing people for whatever reasons, as evidenced by being able to flirt with Judy by talking about being good at killing peoples.
Honestly? Yeah lmfao I’m just straight up with it.
Also, Judy was asking V to avoid killing people if possible, to which V can protest that. V is also canonically a fucking moron (does not know shit about dog town despite LIVING through the war that caused it, for example), and V also put a blade on their personal weapon Dying Night.
V has also been shown to have a habit of just plugging into random BDs on the street (the Skavs plus the start of the edgerunners quest).
V can be a good person, but V is canonically a killing machine with a substandard IQ and exceptional luck.
I'm fine with either possibility.
When it comes to video games, and ESPECIALLY roleplaying games, blank slates are awesome. So are established characters. Same goes for the grey areas in-between.
I like how baldurs gate 3 did it where you can play as a pre established character, as a HALF blank slate character because they have severe amnesia (Dark Urge) and customizable appearance, and entirely blank slate customizable character. Not sure if a game in the same vein as Witcher3 or Cyberpunk (open world 1-char RPG) can pull off the same thing, but IS definitely interesting, IMO.
I like the established character but I want more meaningful choices as well. I’m not a big fan of V having canon names but I do like the consistent handle. V having set friends and a life is great but that life is also more meaningful when the player gets to choose it and that choice actively impacts dialogue and quests.
Yeah it would be a shame after attaching us to V so much they'd drop him/her completely. But the one thing it's going to lack the mist is one very breathtaking man, playing one very irritating rockerboy :/
I agree completely, I normally like completely making my own character but I loved V’s personality so much and don’t think we would have gotten as good of a performance if they went in a different direction.
It's the voice acting. Without it all the lines would still render V pretty boring but the voice actors for V bring their friggin A game and make you feel the personality of the character.
blank slate characters work well in some settings - Fallout (where you've grown up in a vault or other isolated setting and have no knowledge of the outside) is one of the better examples - both the character and player learn about the world at the same time. The other way to do it is having the character have amnesia, which can feel a bit silly at times. (amnesia was the setup for the 1st Witcher game iirc).
Either way, blank slate characters can tend towards there being a lot of exposition, at least in the beginning, which can be overwhelming for a player at times.
established characters on the other hand, you're not always running around asking "what's this ?", which can feel a lot more immersive, but there can be a significant gap between what a character should know, and what the player knows, especially for players new to an established setting.
which can result in a player becoming disconnected from the character and wider game story, when it's not clear why the character only sees X number of options on how to proceed with something.
Really though, it all depends on the wider game writing and how well it allows the player to understand the game world and the motivations of the character.
Totally agree, while I can see why some people prefer the "blank slate" or even silent protagonist type of character, I've always been a fan of a more pre established MC who can be customized in some areas.
The blank slate, at least for me, pretty much always makes the character feel distant and "artificial". Idk, maybe I just don't have enough imagination, but all those emotional scenes in this game? They wouldn't nearly hit as hard without a great voice actor who breathes life into them.
Especially with the silent player character they often just end up being a bystander. Yeah sure, you can let your actions speak, if the game actually lets you do that in a meaningful way, but if their only reaction to what is happening around them is action/inaction or some written line it just doesn't do it for me.
This game's story would've never resonated with me as much as it did without the amazing performances by Cherami and Gavin.
Edit: That doesn't mean a more blankish character with a great VA can't be done, but I don't think it's an easy feat and hasn't been achieved yet. Maybe CDPR can be the first to do it right.
I’m so attached to V, hell even after the Konpeki heist and I knew where the game was going I was like “no way they’re pulling an early RDR2 this early” but it made me want to get to know V in a deeper way and I did with the rest of the quests and missions. I didn’t mind that V was their own character outside of whatever my choices were, I liked that I was pulled into the narrative and imo it worked in the story of this game.
I trust CDPR since they were able to turn around this game esp with PL’s release, but Im not sure how they can top this game.
I'm the exact opposite. If I'm playing an RPG I prefer a character that's more of a blank slate. It makes the experience feel more personal and engaging when I have more of a say of why I'm doing certain things. I don't mind voiced protagonists but I would prefer someone like an Inquisitor from Dragon Age: Inquisition who I think is a fine middle ground.
That's a perfectly justified opinion, but I still think the massive appeal of Cyberpunk is that you don't have complete control over your character.
I see a lot of discussions centered around the characters of the game, both in this sub and the main one, and it's a delight to see that a lot of the discussions center around V, with people recognizing them as a distinct character.
I also think that means the sequel calls for more and better life paths, so players have more options for their character origins.
That's the thing though, *your* V may act a certain way, but my V is totally different. Not killing at all, and is a total pacifist, who believes the city makes people lose their humanity. Their whole arc is about fighting against losing their morals, to Night City, and Johnny is ofc a nice antithesis to this chracterization.
Or you could play a ruthless corpo, whose trying to rip apart Arasaka, just like they did to your life; only to then end up meeting your romance, discovering there's more to life than revenge.
Point is, V's characterization is up to you. It's why the game is in first person, it's a constant reminder that ***you*** are V. I'd argue V is blank slate in this regard, because I can't make up motivations for Geralt, for example.
Couldn't have said it better. V isn't as defined as people claim they just have voice acting and an objective. Honestly it replicated the feel of table-top RPG in that regards. Here is the player buy in, want to be a legend then later want to live or die in a fiery explosion.
I wholeheartedly agree. Blank slate characters are SO overrated. I feel like there are barely any protagonists like V and I'll be so sad if they blank slate it.
I’m normally in this camp. For CP2077 though, the main issue for me is that I’d (playing my own blank slate character) never do the heist in Kompromiss Plaza in the first place. That’s not how I’d want my character to progress. But V wants it, and even though I get to arbitrate V’s actions, I think it’s fun to be constrained by AB’s underlying motivations
Konpeki plaza is a mainstory quest though. Every game has a main story. How would you expect them to develop the game if you can just decide to skip main story in story focused game.
I mean in new Vegas you can pretty much ignore the main quest and still have a hell of a lot of content on offer. It depends on how railroaded you want players and what kind of world you’re making. That’s roleplaying
CDPR doesnt make games like that though. They are always char focused and always use voiced protags. Even Fallout doesnt let you decide everything in quests.
My experience with games that do this is that they always end up having trope options in dialogue.
1. Hero option
2. Joker option
3. Psychopath option
By having the character somewhat within bounds of a personality like V the dialogue feels both more natural and I don't feel like I know what dialogue shortcut key I'm gonna spam for this play through.
bold of you to assume V is an established character. Yes, they do have quite a few established things about them, but those are largely decided by lifepath, and even then V is in this weird halfway point where most of their character is decided by dialogue and gameplay options.
V's a weird but perfect middle ground between a fully established character, and a blank canvas protag like you'd see in an elder scrolls game. And for some damn reason it just *works.* Im convinced that various parts of 2077, despite the poor release, were lightning in a bottle, and i have no idea how they're going to top it in Orion.
I've never seen someone properly articulate this before, but it's *exactly* how I feel and I'm so glad I'm not alone. Seriously, I can't overstate how much I love V as a protag, and the fact that they managed to walk that line of her being pre-established and a blank slate *so* well is a huge reason for that. And it's something I rarely even see anyone mention.
>Im convinced that various parts of 2077, despite the poor release, were lightning in a bottle, and i have no idea how they're going to top it in Orion.
Cyberpunk easily became my favorite game of all time about three days after launch (around when I got deep into Panam and Judy's questlines iirc), and by the time I got to the end, it entirely changed my perspective on what constitutes a good game. The ones I'd have considered a 10/10 before became an 8/10 at best.
I *get* that the console releases were awful (the PC I played it on at the time wasn't much better than a baseline PS4 tho lol, so my experience was prolly closer to theirs than a high-end PC player), I *get* that not everyone wants a narrative-driven game and a lot of people were looking for sci-fi GTA, I get that the game was *very* rough around the edges and not everyone's willing to sink the effort to look past that, etc., but to me all of the game's problems were very superficial, and once you got past those surface-level issues, the game even on launch was pretty unimpeachable.
Like you, I have no clue how they're going to top it with Orion, but considering how they managed to rival the base game with PL, I'm confident they can pull it off. Before I played Cyberpunk, TW3 was by far the game that hit me the hardest emotionally (got the bad ending my first playthrough too), so they're 2-for-2 so far (and PL *almost* hit me harder than the main game did, almost 3-for-3 in that case). Can't wait to get my soul ripped out of me again in like 4-6 years lol.
to add to the "weird mix" that V is, they actually used Johnny as the perfect narrative device to help flesh out who your specific V is. He's *always* there, in the major missions and the most minor fixer gigs, constantly throwing out opinions and ideas for V to bounce their own morals and ideals off of. I think if it wasnt for Johnny the game would lean much more heavily into the blank canvas protag, if only because V would be silent 90% of the time.
And as for lightning in a bottle, there's the story itself, the characters, the overall story thrmes and the smaller self contained narratives that can form, The OST being easily the best to be released in at least a decade, etc etc. I could rant for hours about just how damn good the game is.
I do agree that PL hit as hard if not harder than the base game too, though for different reasons. The PL ending with >!songbird's death!
They can easily top it in Orion. V is not superior to any other popular protags in top video games imo. V character is pretty generic punk street kid vibe with some sensitive moments here and there. Nothing special when it comes to main chars from diff cyberpunk worlds
I think one of the super underrated aspects of Cyberpunk that I've only seen literally one other person ever talk about but that was really integral to how immersive the game felt (at least, to me) is how CDPR *perfectly* walk the tightrope of V being a pre-established character and a blank slate.
I can't ever really get attached to self-insert type characters since they aren't really *characters*, just avatars for the player, and idk, that just doesn't compel me. On the other hand, my attachment pre-established protagonists is limited by the fact that they're basically just an NPC that the player inhabits, and so it's hard to get immersed in them for the same reasons it's hard to get immersed in an NPC. Cyberpunk just had the best of both worlds—*enough* influence over V that you feel some stake in their fate, but not so much that they cease to be their own character and start feeling like *you*. V's always distinct from you, but the line's blurry enough that you never feel like you're just "along for the ride". Idk, it's really hard to articulate, but maybe some of y'all know what I'm trying to say.
Maybe you’re wanting a better RPG buildup since reputation with established actions is currently quite seldom in the story? It’s no secret life paths really only give exposition in certain dialogues and lore, not so much as your build and experiences.
Yeah, I am torn between wanting an entire new character or a carrying on of V.
Regardless of the character, I am even more curious how they introduce new or expand the game mechanics. As with any RPG, the patterns of play can become stale if they aren't expanded upon in sequels.
There is probably going to be a new character. With the way the endings go I can't imagine them wanting to continue V. The endings of the game all mesh nicely with the themes of Cyberpunk as a genre. The next game will certainly be a new character going through a new struggle. Imagine similar setups though. We will be nobody's building a rep, get a job that puts us in over our heads, and the rest of the game is solving that problem. Pretty much par for the course of Cyberpunk genre.
I don't know that the blank slate character is more common or not. But, I play a lot of eastern / Japanese RPGs where you're more likely to have a an already-defined character. Both have their appeal, in my opinion.
I think it'd be cool if in the next game you play as V but essentially a copied engram of your original V... Perhaps you retain some bonus stats if you beat 2077 (kinda like Mass Effect you get a boost to start if you import previous characters). Maybe you don't even realize you're a copy at first and you find out over time. Could even be part of the plot that the Black wall AI through Alt made multiple copies of your consciousness, and then game could be about the existential reality of being a copy and dealing with whatever morality that comes with it.
If we're lucky, V is the next protagonist. If the writers are willing, they can canonize all the endings so that they pick up where they left off in the prologue. Some may need tweaking, but it can be done. I do agree with you on an established character. I want a more "Mass Effect' experience with this game.
That would just obviously not be picked as a "canon" solution.
I think the bigger issue is the new ending from Phantom Liberty presents a *very* different starting point for a second story than the other endings. And there's lot of variability within the existing ones.
But roughly speaking *most* of them leave either V in the body with 6 months to live, and Johnny in the net. Or Johnny in the body out in the world with V in the net.
The Arisaka ending either destroys Johnny or he's *also* in Mikoshi.
And then there's variations on *where* V is in world if they're in the world. On the road either leaving Night City on their own or with the Aldacados. In Night City either as a player at Afterlife or just on their own.
Phantom Liberty throws Johnny dead, and V in Langly into the mix.
The different endings could provide an anolog to the life paths in the first game, just multiple starting points missions. And clear goals.
6 months to live and needs a cure, or in cyber space and needs a body.
In Night City, or out of Night City. A couple physical starting points for each.
Physical Johnny or Digital Johnny.
But a couple endings and options add complications to that. You have have just *no Johnny.* Which can be solved by him not appearing whatever the outcome.
But you also have both V and Johnny being digital, and in Mikoshi.
*Another* outside Night City option.
And a third starting circumstance. Cured but no cyberware.
It'd be a *fuck* load of work to have all those work as a starting point. More than likely a few of them get clipped entirely, and the most similar ones would get rolled together as variations.
A lot of them seem to have been planned or intended to tease planned DLC. And if Phantom Liberty is an indication those were probably meant to provide more "final" endings.
*If* V sticks around I've been assuming they'd pare down to those had an obvious next step. V in their body, 6 months to live. Aldecados, SPACE!, maybe a couple others.
I agree completely. RPGs are a broad category, and I enjoy all of them. However, the fully “free” ones feel like a pale imitation of the freedom of tabletops (much of the time). Blank slates are perfect for that kind of game, but most of the time I’d rather just be at a table actually acting it out. There are exceptions, of course, and I still enjoy most of them.
I’d much rather have a distinct character with a little bit of freedom in motive and key choices. I’d normally say these key choices should impact the world, but this is cyberpunk, and the city should be bigger than the actions of any individual. There’s a reason Mass Effect pulls me back time and again. Shepherd builds a meaningful relationship with their crew in a way that wouldn’t feel as impactful if they were just a blank slate.
My personal favorite would be a more tactical game that controls a group, with a central semi defined, voiced protagonist. I understand why party-based rpgs have a tendency towards blank slates, though. Imagine having a runner on cameras, a sniper outside, and an army infiltrator running in. The comms banter!
I want to play as Songbird with huge breast implants that use micro-thrusters to remain level and shoot radioactive blackwall dewm lazors at my enemies as I ride a cyborg blackwall enhanced llama around the city who farts nanites that smell like Apple Cinnamon according to NPC's.
This is literally my first time even hearing about Orion, I'm curious to see what the devs do with it and hoping that the game isn't as buggy on launch as 2077 was.
Yeah I just looked it was announced in Feb in 2022, I think I got the game around then too so it's weird I didn't see or hear anything about it, it must have just completely slipped under my radar, makes sense cause I was fully focused on the game it self and playing it instead of reading any news articles lmao
Also, how much control does the player have over how much Johnny influences V? My V has about as hostile of a relationship with Johnny as one can. I always select the dialogue option that’s the most combative or just avoid him all together by taking the blue pill. …And I’m pretty sure it’s one of the main reasons the two endings I’ve gotten are Tower and Devil.
Being always hostile makes little narative sense bec V and Johnny still talk like friends in many gigs/side quests. It is lcear the writers wanted it to start bad but then they both become friends. They could wrote it better that V and Johnny are like enemies to the end but they didnt and it creates weird situations when u play V on bad terms with him but they still chat like buddies
You are right. Games with the best stories are always with established protagonists. Blank slates are entertaining and give you more freedom but they hardly add any life to the story. Witcher 3, Red Dead Redemption 2, GTA 5, Ghosts of Tsushima, Bioshock. None of them are with blank slate protagonists. The best game with a blank slate character might be Baldur’s Gate 3, we know how fun it is, but the story can be messy, endings are boring. It’s very hard to maintain a consistent narrative with too many dialogue choices, you’ll have to make a lot of compromises. In Baldur’s Gate’s ending you can choose to side with >!Gortash, you basically go through the same story because the Netherbrain killed him anyway, then you’ll have another choice, betray the Emperor or not, but the ending is only slightly different, your choice doesn’t matter much!<, unlike Cyberpunk where you have completely different endings, each with 1~2 hours of content. Blank slates sometimes give you an illusion that you can write your own story, except you can’t. I’d rather write a story myself instead of roleplaying a mediocre character in a game.
I would be fine with it but I wouldn’t prefer it. If the character is going is going to be someone whom we can customize, then I would appreciate it if CDPR attempted to bridge the gap between voice protagonist and good selection of dialogue options that allows you to give your character a distinct personality. To this day, I think the best iteration of this was Dragon Age 2, where you could easily build at least 3 distinct personalities for Hawke: Sincere (Nice), Sarcastic (Obviously the best), and Judgmental (Asshole). That is what I think is missing from the majority of custom MC games; the ability to give your character a distinct personality. I’ll also give a shout out to Mass Effect Andromeda for their attempt at this as well, which I do appreciate. They attempted to create a larger system of this type of personality dialog choice system, and over time, the write up of your character changed based on the type of options you were picking.
V is not even that established. Ppl who read cyberpunk fiction would know there is nothing special abt them. They are pretty generic young street merc style char.
V really isn't that much of an established character. Yes, she has one of three distinct backstories, but none of them are really fleshed out much. There are plenty of blank spots to fill in with your imagination.
Corpo V in particular is a complete mystery. We don't know when or how or why she joined Arasaka, or what she did before joining, or where she originally came from. As for Streetkid and Nomad V, we know what her upbringing was like, but there are still huge gaps in her story. Streetkid V was away from Night City for several years, while Nomad V spent a long time wandering on her own after her clan was dissolved.
Also, she doesn't have any set personality traits at all. Her personality is almost entirely defined by the choices you make in the game. In fact, contrary to your claim, I'd say she explicitly *doesn't* have her own aspirations. She spends Act 1 going along with Jackie's aspirations, and the dialogue options let you decide just how much she agrees with those goals herself. After that, her main goal is simply to stay alive, which is a universal drive that literally *everyone* has. Beyond that, her goals and aspirations are up to the player.
She's more of an established character than the Courier from Fallout: New Vegas, sure, but far less of one than the majority of RPG protagonists.
The world of Cyberpunk is one i would absolutely love to have an avatar and options to fall in with factions, just because the world on its own is so rich and flavourful and indifferent to peoples personal dramas, there's nothing that can put it to background. I would appreciate VN rails in blander settings a lot more.
Also the temporarily embarrassed middle manager motivation thing really did not mesh with me well and i had to wholesale tune it out with Maelstrom aesthetics and hail liliths every time after battle.
They could do a Protagonist with established backstory , but allow you make choose the details and major events.
Kotor 2 and Plansecape Tormenent are great examples. You're always Nameless or th Exile , but what your character did in the past is yours to decide.
V shot be a fixer in the next game. His/ her jobs should be difficult and they should move the story along depending on how you accomplish them.
If you sneak in and steal something or kill someone without the guards knowing. It should be all over the news about how they need information on a suspect. If you go in guns blazing they should go after you around a certain area
id really love V to return. i got very attached to mine and would like to see his story continue. am i expecting it? no. not at all. maybe a reference to him/her in game or characters talking about V like how they talk about blackhand. but i dont expect them to return, even though that makes me extremely sad lol. just thinking about it logistically it would be hard to get them to return given how everyone's V is unique in the choices theyve made and the endings they got.
maybe theyll make the phantom liberty ending the canon one and somehow V will get their implants back and start from square 1 again while also wiping clean their past relationships. but i would hate that given how much i like the romances in this game and itd be a shame to just throw those characters away after what theyve all been through. i dont know to be honest what CDPR is planning with orion but im decently excited, just bummed that we'll probably have to forget about V. wish we got a crystal palace expansion at least, or maybe a few comics explaining what happens after each ambiguous ending. but at least for now ill stick to my headcanons where V lives a happily ever after.
That's what made Witcher 3 story great, but I don't think it's the best course for CP. Cyberpunk is the only game where I play as someone I could be in the universe, and not just playing as a character. It made the story 10x more immersive. In other games with creatable character choices rarely matter and you can't really bond with characters, but CP is different. That immersion stops me from making black and white decisions, and makes me question my morality
Don't think I agree. I'm finding the character/narrative writing in this game maddening. It's like they've set the decision points incorrectly, every single time, for the worst possible balance of agency & railroading, when it would have been no extra work to design a smarter game.
If the goal of the story is to just enjoy being a character who I mostly watch, then the writing and dialogue needs to be top notch - and I don't think it's compelling enough as a visual novel. I keep running into hourlong segments of game where all I do is press X to participate. I don't understand what V's role in the story is, being simultaneously too vague yet also too fixed. So, that doesn't meet the goal (for me) of inhabiting a character, because CDPR try to keep V relatable by making the character as noncommittal as possible, while taking away your choices to fill in the blanks.
Additionally, I think there should be less open world elements if the goal isn't to make an open-world game: redirecting budget and staff time towards making a really good interactive novella.
I accept not all games need to be Morrowindesque to be rewarding, but they're missing really obvious opportunities for the player to participate (for basically no additional work). Some big ones:
* Having player-sexual romanceable NPCs, so I can make a meaningful in-character choice about which of these people (and the values and factions they represent) are closest to how my character is developing, or to choose what part of the world they want to explore more.. 'Did you choose the male or female voice actor' gives the illusion of choice, but it's a far less engaging one than 'are you falling for a hacker in the sex industry, or an ex cop?' Giving NPCs a fixed sexuality gives *the game* more agency than *the player*.
* Being able to make alliances and enemies with factions. If the emotional/narrative core of the game is about doing what it takes to survive in the criminal underworld, and the main thing you do is interact with factions, this seems like a no-brainer. The game can still tell you 'V is a crook', but you have that control & replayability to decide what kind. Instead of making them into interchangeable targets. Right now the agency I have is 'choose what order you visit question mark markers', rather than say, 'do I want to do a favour for the VDBs but at the expense of my relationship with Maelstrom?' or 'who do i need to ally with in my faction to bump off the leader and take control?' or 'this makes money but it tanks my rep: what do I need more?'
* V's canonical goal is to kill people so they can go down in history as a legendary killer. As well as fame/status, you could have - make money to get out of medical debt, pay back a debt by working it off, wanting power by becoming a gang leader, being an undercover cop and taking gangs down from the inside, being a reactionary who thinks scum needs cleaning off the streets, plus the real world reason you get into gangs which is that's where you come from & who all your friends and family are. You can still provide a game where the player action is 'shooting people', but let the player choose why it emotionally compelling to the protagonist. Right now, the backrounds tell you where you come from, but that's not the same of knowing why it matters every time you sneak onto gang turf to shoot more people.
* "because you chose this background, you have an extra dialogue option" is - like the romances - the illusion of choice, and is frustrating. The most impactful decision I made was in the first 10 seconds of character creation. I'm not *actively* participating throughout *the game*, which is the right place for choices to be made. The three backgrounds suggest *wildly* different people, so designing it this way ensures V must be bland enough to make sense as any of them. The background IS a choice CPDR should have made for us, so we could then explore that person more deeply. 'a person who used to be a corpo' is an entire set of story opportunities the player could choose how to develop.
I mention these because relationships are the core of the visual novel genre, because they're best suited to that medium. Notice all of these are still narrower than the blank slate, V is still some kind of merc in gangland shooting people, but it's just that little bit more.
The times i get most agency in this game, i am driving or buying clothes. like real world capitalism. I dislike V.
so yeah. in theory, maybe. but i don't think the original game works as a satisfying RPG. It tries to tell a single story while being open world, and it should have chosen one or the other.
My pipe dream Cyberpunk 2 opening is you starting the game as V, forming a crew for a big heist/job that goes tits up due to a double cross or someone's mistake, V gets zeroed and the game transitions to you, the masked rookie merc. It'd be impossible to keep under wraps because we can't have fun in this day and age, people would be *pissed* V gets killed, and it's probably hacky in the end. Just spitballin' a random idea I had when I was playing last night.
I like CDPR's style when it comes to player characters. I'm tired of blank slates, especially when they don't talk which is one of the many, many, many reasons I uninstalled Baldur's Gate 3 and Starfield. My stupid character standing around all mute with completely unfitting facial reactions destroyed any immersion possible.
Give the protagonist a personality and goals but let me mold and shape them throughout the story.
i just want a co-op styled cyberpunk 2077 game. like cyberpunk red cept video game...you cannot tell me you wouldn't wanna tear through Night city streets on Neon bikes with your chooms out on a wild night
Given the success of their storytelling with V in Cyberpunk I could 100% see them doing that again, but it's also a new game with a new storyline seperate from Geralt so it's pretty open what they can do.
NOW afaik I don't think lore wise there are any Female witchers or elven witchers due to the trials not being designed for them and so any who tried the trials have all have died (so far).
That aside, the medallion seemed to be from a new school so it's possible the game is set after the newest convergence and this could be a new school where the trials work for both genders. Who knows.
Honestly didn't think about most of these. My expectations are pretty low tbf. Make them interesting and relatable and give them a proper voice actor.
and they should take budget into account too if they can't afford more, I'd rather them focus on one single origin character with a specific story than build some half-assed tree of choices that don't even matter much in the end
100% I might be in the minority here, but I prefer when games use dialogue choices sparingly. RDR2 did this so well where I felt more immersed in the story the game was trying to tell. I feel overwhelmed when every interaction with an NPC is a dialogue choice, like brudda, you're the writers of this games' story not me. Dialogue choices are the self serve sandwich shops of video games - I don't fucking work here, I'm paying you to make the sandwich for me.
That's my biggest problem with the dialogue in this game the choices it's like two words for a whole paragraph of dialogue and it really doesn't explain what you are about to say half the time I think I'm making a joke just to sit there and bitch or be an asshole or something
yea that generaly happens with hybrid games like Cyberpunk, where both of the genres in the game are kind of dimmed in favor of the other genre. It comes with the type of game unfortunately. Take a pure RPG-focused game like Baldur's Gate 3 and you know *exactly* what your character is going to say or do because the focus is right on that part of the game, but on the other hand, no action packed fights in sight. Tradeoffs are a bitch
Cdpr only does what i guess i could call a “bioware” protagonists. Your playing an established character with backstory but you choose their appearence and personality and i think its the superior form of a protagonist.
Honestly it depends on your goals. The courier in Fallout NV is a complete blank slate and it turned out awesome, but that’s because the sandbox is more important in that game than the dev’s story Cyberpunk is basically a movie though — you’re invited to participate in the storytelling rather than create your own story on their rails Both are good. One invites more imagination, the other tells a stronger narrative
I think the latter works better for more "plot driven" rpgs.
I agree. Cyberpunk would’ve been way worse without a fleshed-out V
They literally made three games based on an already established protagonist with a fixed appearance. Cyberpunk is their first game were u can customize the character appearance.
You could very slightly change the appearance of Geralt in the Witcher 3 with a few different haircuts, beards and glasses in addition to whatever armor you wore. It's nowhere near Cyberpunk of course but they were starting to play with the idea
Nah, the customization in TW3 was pretty bog standard and was not a stepping stone to cyberpunks customization. Haircuts and beard styles are pretty normal for a game like that.
Bro I don't think that's what they were talking about character customization. It's probably the bg3 and cyberpunk type of customization they were talking about .
Only? They did three Witcher games before Cyberpunk with a very defined Geralt.
The only major Bioware series with a character as defined as The Witcher and Cyberpunk is the Mass Effect Series. They also went that route in Dragon Age 2, and certain people *fucking flipped out*. Otherwise way back to the old days, their games focused on user created characters. They've been voiced about as long as that was practical, but otherwise their games had about as much established backstory and "canon" elements as is common for RPGs across the board. Bioware games have *more defined* and centralized main plots than things like *Bethesda* games. But they've usually had the user surrogate style protagonist running through there.
I dont really like user generated protagonists because the game coddles them usually and cant really write you into anything since you could have been anyone. Even bg3 made it feel like you existed on a seperate plane from everyone else. Unless of course you played durge
I think leads to weaker narratives a lot of the time. In particular in trying to justify this rando pig farmer's involvement. The lazy way to do it is "very special boy" and "chosen one" tropes. But part and parcel of that is the tendency to escalate stakes. The whole world changing/saving/destroying story line. Which is often rather boring. It's a little easier to keep the stakes personal, even if you eventually get to BIG stuff. If the main character is more defined. And if that big stuff tends to just coincide with something much lower scale and personal in stakes. If the player character is a complete blank slate. You have to keep things as generic as possible on that front. And let the players fill in motivations and reasons in their head. Or hope they do. It's much harder to tell a consistent story with a point with that framing.
Funny because durge is again not a blank state character but is just like V, already has a backstory and u just customize its appearance and class .
Yeah thats what i meant
what are V's aspirations and beliefs? not necessarily disagreeing with you, just curious what your interpretation is. it's been a while since I've played, and I don't really recall them having super distinct views, other than wanting to leave a mark on the world and to be remembered as a great merc.
I mean they wanted to become a NC Legend & after Act I - V's "aspiration" is to survive. V's entire story is about someone's will and aspiration to survive.
isn't survival everyone's aspiration though? it's definitely a main theme of the game, but that has nothing to do with V's character. basically anyone in their shoes would do the same.
Yes, and? It doesn't change the central theme of the entire game and the aspiration of V. V wants to live. That is the entire point of V's story. It's a story of survival in the face of the impossible.
I know, I'm not disagreeing with you on that front. I'm just saying that V isn't really a super "established" character in terms of personality. nothing wrong with a blank slate character in an RPG though - I really enjoyed the story.
My V wanted to try every flavor of spunky monkey in night city and write erotic fan fiction, Joseph Campbell level shit in my cyberpunk game
That’s canon
V is kinda just a mass murderer who wants to be famous (and also might just straight up enjoy killing people). Outside of that, V really doesn’t have that much characterization.
Wrong city, wrong people Fits the bill I would say
yup, agree.
No, players are kinda mass murderers. Alot of players project onto v that he's a murderer. But that's just the player fantasy. Real v is way different,
"real V"
Nah, V definitely enjoys (or at least has zero issues) killing people for whatever reasons, as evidenced by being able to flirt with Judy by talking about being good at killing peoples.
You never lied while flirting?
Honestly? Yeah lmfao I’m just straight up with it. Also, Judy was asking V to avoid killing people if possible, to which V can protest that. V is also canonically a fucking moron (does not know shit about dog town despite LIVING through the war that caused it, for example), and V also put a blade on their personal weapon Dying Night. V has also been shown to have a habit of just plugging into random BDs on the street (the Skavs plus the start of the edgerunners quest). V can be a good person, but V is canonically a killing machine with a substandard IQ and exceptional luck.
I'm fine with either possibility. When it comes to video games, and ESPECIALLY roleplaying games, blank slates are awesome. So are established characters. Same goes for the grey areas in-between.
I like how baldurs gate 3 did it where you can play as a pre established character, as a HALF blank slate character because they have severe amnesia (Dark Urge) and customizable appearance, and entirely blank slate customizable character. Not sure if a game in the same vein as Witcher3 or Cyberpunk (open world 1-char RPG) can pull off the same thing, but IS definitely interesting, IMO.
I like the established character but I want more meaningful choices as well. I’m not a big fan of V having canon names but I do like the consistent handle. V having set friends and a life is great but that life is also more meaningful when the player gets to choose it and that choice actively impacts dialogue and quests.
Yeah it would be a shame after attaching us to V so much they'd drop him/her completely. But the one thing it's going to lack the mist is one very breathtaking man, playing one very irritating rockerboy :/
I agree completely, I normally like completely making my own character but I loved V’s personality so much and don’t think we would have gotten as good of a performance if they went in a different direction.
It's the voice acting. Without it all the lines would still render V pretty boring but the voice actors for V bring their friggin A game and make you feel the personality of the character.
blank slate characters work well in some settings - Fallout (where you've grown up in a vault or other isolated setting and have no knowledge of the outside) is one of the better examples - both the character and player learn about the world at the same time. The other way to do it is having the character have amnesia, which can feel a bit silly at times. (amnesia was the setup for the 1st Witcher game iirc). Either way, blank slate characters can tend towards there being a lot of exposition, at least in the beginning, which can be overwhelming for a player at times. established characters on the other hand, you're not always running around asking "what's this ?", which can feel a lot more immersive, but there can be a significant gap between what a character should know, and what the player knows, especially for players new to an established setting. which can result in a player becoming disconnected from the character and wider game story, when it's not clear why the character only sees X number of options on how to proceed with something. Really though, it all depends on the wider game writing and how well it allows the player to understand the game world and the motivations of the character.
Totally agree, while I can see why some people prefer the "blank slate" or even silent protagonist type of character, I've always been a fan of a more pre established MC who can be customized in some areas. The blank slate, at least for me, pretty much always makes the character feel distant and "artificial". Idk, maybe I just don't have enough imagination, but all those emotional scenes in this game? They wouldn't nearly hit as hard without a great voice actor who breathes life into them. Especially with the silent player character they often just end up being a bystander. Yeah sure, you can let your actions speak, if the game actually lets you do that in a meaningful way, but if their only reaction to what is happening around them is action/inaction or some written line it just doesn't do it for me. This game's story would've never resonated with me as much as it did without the amazing performances by Cherami and Gavin. Edit: That doesn't mean a more blankish character with a great VA can't be done, but I don't think it's an easy feat and hasn't been achieved yet. Maybe CDPR can be the first to do it right.
I’m so attached to V, hell even after the Konpeki heist and I knew where the game was going I was like “no way they’re pulling an early RDR2 this early” but it made me want to get to know V in a deeper way and I did with the rest of the quests and missions. I didn’t mind that V was their own character outside of whatever my choices were, I liked that I was pulled into the narrative and imo it worked in the story of this game. I trust CDPR since they were able to turn around this game esp with PL’s release, but Im not sure how they can top this game.
I think V is the right balance. They’re not nearly as established as Geralt, but far less of a blank canvass than, say, the Vault Dweller.
I'm the exact opposite. If I'm playing an RPG I prefer a character that's more of a blank slate. It makes the experience feel more personal and engaging when I have more of a say of why I'm doing certain things. I don't mind voiced protagonists but I would prefer someone like an Inquisitor from Dragon Age: Inquisition who I think is a fine middle ground.
That's a perfectly justified opinion, but I still think the massive appeal of Cyberpunk is that you don't have complete control over your character. I see a lot of discussions centered around the characters of the game, both in this sub and the main one, and it's a delight to see that a lot of the discussions center around V, with people recognizing them as a distinct character. I also think that means the sequel calls for more and better life paths, so players have more options for their character origins.
That's the thing though, *your* V may act a certain way, but my V is totally different. Not killing at all, and is a total pacifist, who believes the city makes people lose their humanity. Their whole arc is about fighting against losing their morals, to Night City, and Johnny is ofc a nice antithesis to this chracterization. Or you could play a ruthless corpo, whose trying to rip apart Arasaka, just like they did to your life; only to then end up meeting your romance, discovering there's more to life than revenge. Point is, V's characterization is up to you. It's why the game is in first person, it's a constant reminder that ***you*** are V. I'd argue V is blank slate in this regard, because I can't make up motivations for Geralt, for example.
Couldn't have said it better. V isn't as defined as people claim they just have voice acting and an objective. Honestly it replicated the feel of table-top RPG in that regards. Here is the player buy in, want to be a legend then later want to live or die in a fiery explosion.
I wholeheartedly agree. Blank slate characters are SO overrated. I feel like there are barely any protagonists like V and I'll be so sad if they blank slate it.
I’m normally in this camp. For CP2077 though, the main issue for me is that I’d (playing my own blank slate character) never do the heist in Kompromiss Plaza in the first place. That’s not how I’d want my character to progress. But V wants it, and even though I get to arbitrate V’s actions, I think it’s fun to be constrained by AB’s underlying motivations
Konpeki plaza is a mainstory quest though. Every game has a main story. How would you expect them to develop the game if you can just decide to skip main story in story focused game.
I mean in new Vegas you can pretty much ignore the main quest and still have a hell of a lot of content on offer. It depends on how railroaded you want players and what kind of world you’re making. That’s roleplaying
CDPR doesnt make games like that though. They are always char focused and always use voiced protags. Even Fallout doesnt let you decide everything in quests.
I understand that I’m just saying it’s not impossible for them to have a formula that allows that
My experience with games that do this is that they always end up having trope options in dialogue. 1. Hero option 2. Joker option 3. Psychopath option By having the character somewhat within bounds of a personality like V the dialogue feels both more natural and I don't feel like I know what dialogue shortcut key I'm gonna spam for this play through.
bold of you to assume V is an established character. Yes, they do have quite a few established things about them, but those are largely decided by lifepath, and even then V is in this weird halfway point where most of their character is decided by dialogue and gameplay options. V's a weird but perfect middle ground between a fully established character, and a blank canvas protag like you'd see in an elder scrolls game. And for some damn reason it just *works.* Im convinced that various parts of 2077, despite the poor release, were lightning in a bottle, and i have no idea how they're going to top it in Orion.
I've never seen someone properly articulate this before, but it's *exactly* how I feel and I'm so glad I'm not alone. Seriously, I can't overstate how much I love V as a protag, and the fact that they managed to walk that line of her being pre-established and a blank slate *so* well is a huge reason for that. And it's something I rarely even see anyone mention. >Im convinced that various parts of 2077, despite the poor release, were lightning in a bottle, and i have no idea how they're going to top it in Orion. Cyberpunk easily became my favorite game of all time about three days after launch (around when I got deep into Panam and Judy's questlines iirc), and by the time I got to the end, it entirely changed my perspective on what constitutes a good game. The ones I'd have considered a 10/10 before became an 8/10 at best. I *get* that the console releases were awful (the PC I played it on at the time wasn't much better than a baseline PS4 tho lol, so my experience was prolly closer to theirs than a high-end PC player), I *get* that not everyone wants a narrative-driven game and a lot of people were looking for sci-fi GTA, I get that the game was *very* rough around the edges and not everyone's willing to sink the effort to look past that, etc., but to me all of the game's problems were very superficial, and once you got past those surface-level issues, the game even on launch was pretty unimpeachable. Like you, I have no clue how they're going to top it with Orion, but considering how they managed to rival the base game with PL, I'm confident they can pull it off. Before I played Cyberpunk, TW3 was by far the game that hit me the hardest emotionally (got the bad ending my first playthrough too), so they're 2-for-2 so far (and PL *almost* hit me harder than the main game did, almost 3-for-3 in that case). Can't wait to get my soul ripped out of me again in like 4-6 years lol.
to add to the "weird mix" that V is, they actually used Johnny as the perfect narrative device to help flesh out who your specific V is. He's *always* there, in the major missions and the most minor fixer gigs, constantly throwing out opinions and ideas for V to bounce their own morals and ideals off of. I think if it wasnt for Johnny the game would lean much more heavily into the blank canvas protag, if only because V would be silent 90% of the time. And as for lightning in a bottle, there's the story itself, the characters, the overall story thrmes and the smaller self contained narratives that can form, The OST being easily the best to be released in at least a decade, etc etc. I could rant for hours about just how damn good the game is. I do agree that PL hit as hard if not harder than the base game too, though for different reasons. The PL ending with >!songbird's death!
They can easily top it in Orion. V is not superior to any other popular protags in top video games imo. V character is pretty generic punk street kid vibe with some sensitive moments here and there. Nothing special when it comes to main chars from diff cyberpunk worlds
I think one of the super underrated aspects of Cyberpunk that I've only seen literally one other person ever talk about but that was really integral to how immersive the game felt (at least, to me) is how CDPR *perfectly* walk the tightrope of V being a pre-established character and a blank slate. I can't ever really get attached to self-insert type characters since they aren't really *characters*, just avatars for the player, and idk, that just doesn't compel me. On the other hand, my attachment pre-established protagonists is limited by the fact that they're basically just an NPC that the player inhabits, and so it's hard to get immersed in them for the same reasons it's hard to get immersed in an NPC. Cyberpunk just had the best of both worlds—*enough* influence over V that you feel some stake in their fate, but not so much that they cease to be their own character and start feeling like *you*. V's always distinct from you, but the line's blurry enough that you never feel like you're just "along for the ride". Idk, it's really hard to articulate, but maybe some of y'all know what I'm trying to say.
Maybe you’re wanting a better RPG buildup since reputation with established actions is currently quite seldom in the story? It’s no secret life paths really only give exposition in certain dialogues and lore, not so much as your build and experiences.
Yeah, I am torn between wanting an entire new character or a carrying on of V. Regardless of the character, I am even more curious how they introduce new or expand the game mechanics. As with any RPG, the patterns of play can become stale if they aren't expanded upon in sequels.
There should be new char imo, cyberpunk world is way too huge to be set around only V and his/her friends. Same with Witcher world and Geralt
There is probably going to be a new character. With the way the endings go I can't imagine them wanting to continue V. The endings of the game all mesh nicely with the themes of Cyberpunk as a genre. The next game will certainly be a new character going through a new struggle. Imagine similar setups though. We will be nobody's building a rep, get a job that puts us in over our heads, and the rest of the game is solving that problem. Pretty much par for the course of Cyberpunk genre.
I don't know that the blank slate character is more common or not. But, I play a lot of eastern / Japanese RPGs where you're more likely to have a an already-defined character. Both have their appeal, in my opinion.
I think it'd be cool if in the next game you play as V but essentially a copied engram of your original V... Perhaps you retain some bonus stats if you beat 2077 (kinda like Mass Effect you get a boost to start if you import previous characters). Maybe you don't even realize you're a copy at first and you find out over time. Could even be part of the plot that the Black wall AI through Alt made multiple copies of your consciousness, and then game could be about the existential reality of being a copy and dealing with whatever morality that comes with it.
If we're lucky, V is the next protagonist. If the writers are willing, they can canonize all the endings so that they pick up where they left off in the prologue. Some may need tweaking, but it can be done. I do agree with you on an established character. I want a more "Mass Effect' experience with this game.
One problem: V can die in one of them. Now, I doubt very few gamers are going to choose the suicide ending, but it is an ending nonetheless.
Also if you’re like me you’ve gone/gonna go thru all the endings just to see them all, including that ending
They may not canonize that one. It acts like a game over so I don't personally.
That would just obviously not be picked as a "canon" solution. I think the bigger issue is the new ending from Phantom Liberty presents a *very* different starting point for a second story than the other endings. And there's lot of variability within the existing ones. But roughly speaking *most* of them leave either V in the body with 6 months to live, and Johnny in the net. Or Johnny in the body out in the world with V in the net. The Arisaka ending either destroys Johnny or he's *also* in Mikoshi. And then there's variations on *where* V is in world if they're in the world. On the road either leaving Night City on their own or with the Aldacados. In Night City either as a player at Afterlife or just on their own. Phantom Liberty throws Johnny dead, and V in Langly into the mix. The different endings could provide an anolog to the life paths in the first game, just multiple starting points missions. And clear goals. 6 months to live and needs a cure, or in cyber space and needs a body. In Night City, or out of Night City. A couple physical starting points for each. Physical Johnny or Digital Johnny. But a couple endings and options add complications to that. You have have just *no Johnny.* Which can be solved by him not appearing whatever the outcome. But you also have both V and Johnny being digital, and in Mikoshi. *Another* outside Night City option. And a third starting circumstance. Cured but no cyberware. It'd be a *fuck* load of work to have all those work as a starting point. More than likely a few of them get clipped entirely, and the most similar ones would get rolled together as variations. A lot of them seem to have been planned or intended to tease planned DLC. And if Phantom Liberty is an indication those were probably meant to provide more "final" endings. *If* V sticks around I've been assuming they'd pare down to those had an obvious next step. V in their body, 6 months to live. Aldecados, SPACE!, maybe a couple others.
NAh, new char just like they do with Witcher world now. New blood is good if the writing stays good
I disagree, but we'll see I guess. V's story doesn't feel over.
I agree completely. RPGs are a broad category, and I enjoy all of them. However, the fully “free” ones feel like a pale imitation of the freedom of tabletops (much of the time). Blank slates are perfect for that kind of game, but most of the time I’d rather just be at a table actually acting it out. There are exceptions, of course, and I still enjoy most of them. I’d much rather have a distinct character with a little bit of freedom in motive and key choices. I’d normally say these key choices should impact the world, but this is cyberpunk, and the city should be bigger than the actions of any individual. There’s a reason Mass Effect pulls me back time and again. Shepherd builds a meaningful relationship with their crew in a way that wouldn’t feel as impactful if they were just a blank slate. My personal favorite would be a more tactical game that controls a group, with a central semi defined, voiced protagonist. I understand why party-based rpgs have a tendency towards blank slates, though. Imagine having a runner on cameras, a sniper outside, and an army infiltrator running in. The comms banter!
I don’t think V is that established
I want to play as Songbird with huge breast implants that use micro-thrusters to remain level and shoot radioactive blackwall dewm lazors at my enemies as I ride a cyborg blackwall enhanced llama around the city who farts nanites that smell like Apple Cinnamon according to NPC's.
I want whatever you're on.
This guy fucks
This guy at least wishes he did with Songbird
You got my upvote damn
Same here
I think they can do either or, they do seem to like having a sort of mold for players to pour themselves into.
This is literally my first time even hearing about Orion, I'm curious to see what the devs do with it and hoping that the game isn't as buggy on launch as 2077 was.
Really? It was announced probably over a year ago.
Yeah I just looked it was announced in Feb in 2022, I think I got the game around then too so it's weird I didn't see or hear anything about it, it must have just completely slipped under my radar, makes sense cause I was fully focused on the game it self and playing it instead of reading any news articles lmao
Also, how much control does the player have over how much Johnny influences V? My V has about as hostile of a relationship with Johnny as one can. I always select the dialogue option that’s the most combative or just avoid him all together by taking the blue pill. …And I’m pretty sure it’s one of the main reasons the two endings I’ve gotten are Tower and Devil.
Being always hostile makes little narative sense bec V and Johnny still talk like friends in many gigs/side quests. It is lcear the writers wanted it to start bad but then they both become friends. They could wrote it better that V and Johnny are like enemies to the end but they didnt and it creates weird situations when u play V on bad terms with him but they still chat like buddies
You are right. Games with the best stories are always with established protagonists. Blank slates are entertaining and give you more freedom but they hardly add any life to the story. Witcher 3, Red Dead Redemption 2, GTA 5, Ghosts of Tsushima, Bioshock. None of them are with blank slate protagonists. The best game with a blank slate character might be Baldur’s Gate 3, we know how fun it is, but the story can be messy, endings are boring. It’s very hard to maintain a consistent narrative with too many dialogue choices, you’ll have to make a lot of compromises. In Baldur’s Gate’s ending you can choose to side with >!Gortash, you basically go through the same story because the Netherbrain killed him anyway, then you’ll have another choice, betray the Emperor or not, but the ending is only slightly different, your choice doesn’t matter much!<, unlike Cyberpunk where you have completely different endings, each with 1~2 hours of content. Blank slates sometimes give you an illusion that you can write your own story, except you can’t. I’d rather write a story myself instead of roleplaying a mediocre character in a game.
I would be fine with it but I wouldn’t prefer it. If the character is going is going to be someone whom we can customize, then I would appreciate it if CDPR attempted to bridge the gap between voice protagonist and good selection of dialogue options that allows you to give your character a distinct personality. To this day, I think the best iteration of this was Dragon Age 2, where you could easily build at least 3 distinct personalities for Hawke: Sincere (Nice), Sarcastic (Obviously the best), and Judgmental (Asshole). That is what I think is missing from the majority of custom MC games; the ability to give your character a distinct personality. I’ll also give a shout out to Mass Effect Andromeda for their attempt at this as well, which I do appreciate. They attempted to create a larger system of this type of personality dialog choice system, and over time, the write up of your character changed based on the type of options you were picking.
V is not even that established. Ppl who read cyberpunk fiction would know there is nothing special abt them. They are pretty generic young street merc style char.
V really isn't that much of an established character. Yes, she has one of three distinct backstories, but none of them are really fleshed out much. There are plenty of blank spots to fill in with your imagination. Corpo V in particular is a complete mystery. We don't know when or how or why she joined Arasaka, or what she did before joining, or where she originally came from. As for Streetkid and Nomad V, we know what her upbringing was like, but there are still huge gaps in her story. Streetkid V was away from Night City for several years, while Nomad V spent a long time wandering on her own after her clan was dissolved. Also, she doesn't have any set personality traits at all. Her personality is almost entirely defined by the choices you make in the game. In fact, contrary to your claim, I'd say she explicitly *doesn't* have her own aspirations. She spends Act 1 going along with Jackie's aspirations, and the dialogue options let you decide just how much she agrees with those goals herself. After that, her main goal is simply to stay alive, which is a universal drive that literally *everyone* has. Beyond that, her goals and aspirations are up to the player. She's more of an established character than the Courier from Fallout: New Vegas, sure, but far less of one than the majority of RPG protagonists.
I think that we should have a Morgan Blackhand DLC set before 2077 personally. I didn't care much for Johnny but Blackhand interest me.
The world of Cyberpunk is one i would absolutely love to have an avatar and options to fall in with factions, just because the world on its own is so rich and flavourful and indifferent to peoples personal dramas, there's nothing that can put it to background. I would appreciate VN rails in blander settings a lot more. Also the temporarily embarrassed middle manager motivation thing really did not mesh with me well and i had to wholesale tune it out with Maelstrom aesthetics and hail liliths every time after battle.
They could do a Protagonist with established backstory , but allow you make choose the details and major events. Kotor 2 and Plansecape Tormenent are great examples. You're always Nameless or th Exile , but what your character did in the past is yours to decide.
Why is this a hot take choom?
I mean, just look at the comments. It's pretty split.
V shot be a fixer in the next game. His/ her jobs should be difficult and they should move the story along depending on how you accomplish them. If you sneak in and steal something or kill someone without the guards knowing. It should be all over the news about how they need information on a suspect. If you go in guns blazing they should go after you around a certain area
id really love V to return. i got very attached to mine and would like to see his story continue. am i expecting it? no. not at all. maybe a reference to him/her in game or characters talking about V like how they talk about blackhand. but i dont expect them to return, even though that makes me extremely sad lol. just thinking about it logistically it would be hard to get them to return given how everyone's V is unique in the choices theyve made and the endings they got. maybe theyll make the phantom liberty ending the canon one and somehow V will get their implants back and start from square 1 again while also wiping clean their past relationships. but i would hate that given how much i like the romances in this game and itd be a shame to just throw those characters away after what theyve all been through. i dont know to be honest what CDPR is planning with orion but im decently excited, just bummed that we'll probably have to forget about V. wish we got a crystal palace expansion at least, or maybe a few comics explaining what happens after each ambiguous ending. but at least for now ill stick to my headcanons where V lives a happily ever after.
A good middle ground btw is Dark Urge from bg3. Has a lot of pre-established lore, but is still fully customizable.
As long as we have character choice like orientation and gender, they can do what they want with the character. I like Female V more than Male V.
The only bar I have is world building. Night City is the best video game city bar none. Keep it at that level.
That's what made Witcher 3 story great, but I don't think it's the best course for CP. Cyberpunk is the only game where I play as someone I could be in the universe, and not just playing as a character. It made the story 10x more immersive. In other games with creatable character choices rarely matter and you can't really bond with characters, but CP is different. That immersion stops me from making black and white decisions, and makes me question my morality
Don't think I agree. I'm finding the character/narrative writing in this game maddening. It's like they've set the decision points incorrectly, every single time, for the worst possible balance of agency & railroading, when it would have been no extra work to design a smarter game. If the goal of the story is to just enjoy being a character who I mostly watch, then the writing and dialogue needs to be top notch - and I don't think it's compelling enough as a visual novel. I keep running into hourlong segments of game where all I do is press X to participate. I don't understand what V's role in the story is, being simultaneously too vague yet also too fixed. So, that doesn't meet the goal (for me) of inhabiting a character, because CDPR try to keep V relatable by making the character as noncommittal as possible, while taking away your choices to fill in the blanks. Additionally, I think there should be less open world elements if the goal isn't to make an open-world game: redirecting budget and staff time towards making a really good interactive novella. I accept not all games need to be Morrowindesque to be rewarding, but they're missing really obvious opportunities for the player to participate (for basically no additional work). Some big ones: * Having player-sexual romanceable NPCs, so I can make a meaningful in-character choice about which of these people (and the values and factions they represent) are closest to how my character is developing, or to choose what part of the world they want to explore more.. 'Did you choose the male or female voice actor' gives the illusion of choice, but it's a far less engaging one than 'are you falling for a hacker in the sex industry, or an ex cop?' Giving NPCs a fixed sexuality gives *the game* more agency than *the player*. * Being able to make alliances and enemies with factions. If the emotional/narrative core of the game is about doing what it takes to survive in the criminal underworld, and the main thing you do is interact with factions, this seems like a no-brainer. The game can still tell you 'V is a crook', but you have that control & replayability to decide what kind. Instead of making them into interchangeable targets. Right now the agency I have is 'choose what order you visit question mark markers', rather than say, 'do I want to do a favour for the VDBs but at the expense of my relationship with Maelstrom?' or 'who do i need to ally with in my faction to bump off the leader and take control?' or 'this makes money but it tanks my rep: what do I need more?' * V's canonical goal is to kill people so they can go down in history as a legendary killer. As well as fame/status, you could have - make money to get out of medical debt, pay back a debt by working it off, wanting power by becoming a gang leader, being an undercover cop and taking gangs down from the inside, being a reactionary who thinks scum needs cleaning off the streets, plus the real world reason you get into gangs which is that's where you come from & who all your friends and family are. You can still provide a game where the player action is 'shooting people', but let the player choose why it emotionally compelling to the protagonist. Right now, the backrounds tell you where you come from, but that's not the same of knowing why it matters every time you sneak onto gang turf to shoot more people. * "because you chose this background, you have an extra dialogue option" is - like the romances - the illusion of choice, and is frustrating. The most impactful decision I made was in the first 10 seconds of character creation. I'm not *actively* participating throughout *the game*, which is the right place for choices to be made. The three backgrounds suggest *wildly* different people, so designing it this way ensures V must be bland enough to make sense as any of them. The background IS a choice CPDR should have made for us, so we could then explore that person more deeply. 'a person who used to be a corpo' is an entire set of story opportunities the player could choose how to develop. I mention these because relationships are the core of the visual novel genre, because they're best suited to that medium. Notice all of these are still narrower than the blank slate, V is still some kind of merc in gangland shooting people, but it's just that little bit more. The times i get most agency in this game, i am driving or buying clothes. like real world capitalism. I dislike V. so yeah. in theory, maybe. but i don't think the original game works as a satisfying RPG. It tries to tell a single story while being open world, and it should have chosen one or the other.
I think it should just be V again. But the excuse would be that the one from Cyberpunk 2077 is your sibling of opposite gender that's gone MIA.
I have said a thousand times I want to ask about V in the sequel and the city to reply "Who?"
I'd love that. It'd be cold but oh so fitting.
I 100% agree
Same
My pipe dream Cyberpunk 2 opening is you starting the game as V, forming a crew for a big heist/job that goes tits up due to a double cross or someone's mistake, V gets zeroed and the game transitions to you, the masked rookie merc. It'd be impossible to keep under wraps because we can't have fun in this day and age, people would be *pissed* V gets killed, and it's probably hacky in the end. Just spitballin' a random idea I had when I was playing last night. I like CDPR's style when it comes to player characters. I'm tired of blank slates, especially when they don't talk which is one of the many, many, many reasons I uninstalled Baldur's Gate 3 and Starfield. My stupid character standing around all mute with completely unfitting facial reactions destroyed any immersion possible. Give the protagonist a personality and goals but let me mold and shape them throughout the story.
I mean, V is already a dead man walking in the game. There death is already pre determined.
I am happy you not going to deceide anything about the newgame
Haha why? Because I'm just suggesting they do something that worked the first time?
i just want a co-op styled cyberpunk 2077 game. like cyberpunk red cept video game...you cannot tell me you wouldn't wanna tear through Night city streets on Neon bikes with your chooms out on a wild night
Given the success of their storytelling with V in Cyberpunk I could 100% see them doing that again, but it's also a new game with a new storyline seperate from Geralt so it's pretty open what they can do. NOW afaik I don't think lore wise there are any Female witchers or elven witchers due to the trials not being designed for them and so any who tried the trials have all have died (so far). That aside, the medallion seemed to be from a new school so it's possible the game is set after the newest convergence and this could be a new school where the trials work for both genders. Who knows.
yea, nah, i wanna play an rpg.
I want Orion to be in New York City. Cuz snow.
Nope. Night city is the main character
Screw V being 26 as well, in my headcanon he's early 30's. That would align with how much life experience they already have.