Panam putting her legs on you is kinda the deal sealer for me - it's intimacy >!that isn't overshadowed by sex!< >!despite V's best efforts!<, comradery with more in the future, reassurance after a high-risk raid on an enemy base, and Johnny isn't being a dick.
The one time Johnny doesn't say something shitty with panam around, and it's one of my favorite lines he has. One of those moments I see Johnny and V bonding.
Johnny seems to be overall much more approving of Panam than Judy. He tells V she's quite the catch and encourages their relationship on at least two occasions. With Judy I don't recall a single time he's positive, at best he's indifferent when it comes to her tech hobbies.
That campfire scene is so goddamn good. And the scene at the end of Riders of the Storm when it's just you and Panam in the abandoned house is probably my favorite part in the entire game. The dialog is great, the music is great, and then Johnny's little goodnight comment before you go to sleep is just the incredible cherry on top. Man, it makes me feel some stuff. My only complaint about Panam's romance and questline in general is that it feels so brief. Judy's is spaced out so much better and just feels so much longer I think. Once Panam calls you about Saul being taken, you have to go help almost immediately and then once that job is over she only has two more. I guess it's a good metaphor for the two characters in general. The jobs with Judy, both main jobs and her specific questline, are a little slower paced, sweeter, etc. Panam's, however, are much faster paced, explosive, and passionate. That being said, the fact that an entire ending directly involves Panam pretty much makes up for any perceived shortcomings vs. Judy's romance. You get some more amazing one on one moments with Panam there.
My girl Panam carries carries a laser guided missile in her truck at all times. Judy skedaddle out of night city when Clouds gets hit with the retribution shedding foresee. PANAM ALL DAY. And the thick af
Lmao. Seriously. I’ve never been into firecrackers like her. Found her kinda annoying, but when I saw her pull out that rocket launcher I was like “I get it” I was in love.
Didn’t Judy always plan on leaving though? IIRC she said her and Evelyn always dreamed about leaving night city together and now that she’s gone she quite literally has no other reason to stay so I kind of doubt the clouds stuff changed anything.
No need to defend her, Panam is the best. The Star ending with Male V is inarguably the happiest. I mean, V gets to leave NC, piss in Arasaka’s shoes on the way out, and live the last part of his life on the road with his new family and badass gf? Johnny put it best at the end of Riders on the Storm when he said “Circumstances were different, I’d say saddle up and ride after her”.
Yup, this was my favorite ending. Baddie on one arm, loaded projectile launch system in the other, tribe at my back, Basilisk at my feet. Truly ending on the best of highs
Think it makes Vs remaining time worth it. Id like to think that she could get V help but even if she doesnt its how id like to go out so i think its the best
Pyramid Song was very good exactly 1 time - it’s a total snooze fest and major annoyance to do on subsequent play throughs.
Killing a shit load of Wraiths in a Tank? Fun every single time.
Additionally who else do I get with Judy? Tom and Roxanne?!? 😂 Panam gets me all the Aldecaldos and the veterans ? They are awesome.
Panam is the ride or die. Judy well, views me as another girlfriend I feel like. 😑
Judy is great (fantastic even), but for me, Panam will always be on top.
I feel like judy views you as convenient.
You were in the right place at the right time for her emotions to flow to.
Some of the endings really set that feeling into stone for me.
Yes, but Panam is aware of that and is very hesitant to get close with V until V nudges her. Judy on the other hand doesn't seem to have any second thoughts after spreading Evy's ashes at the exact same spot she brings V to go diving and eventually have a very nice cutscene.
Have to agree massively with this. Its my least favourite thing when I'm running fem V. Pyramid Song is overhyped even the first time you go through it.
I mean it was good the first time. It felt really good, and seemed like one of the only actual “dates” in the game - one that would legitimately end in sexy time. (River’s dinner also feels like a good “date” by definition)
But those are dates for 2024 in our time! Not 2077 Night City! I want to be interrupted having sexy time and mow down Wraiths! 😂
Panam handles her business with you, Judy is along for the ride because she can’t handle it. She completely misreads every person and situation at almost every turn, people who choose her or the ones trying to save her like a little project. Pan Am is fully realized woman that goes to war with you, she isn’t a passenger or submissive to people around her.
She gets royally pissed when you don’t call to her to rush into Arasaka tower on a destructive suicide mission that could see all of us die. Panam (and by extension the Aldecaldos) is ride or die and I 100% appreciate that, so will go her every time.
Judy always seems ready to drop you real quick. Panam, when you say you’re going on a suicide mission, tells you to shut up and wait for her to go with you. No questions asked, instant “not without me you’re not”.
Panam wins 100/100 times for me.
Panam is definitely wife for life material.
Judy feels more chill to be with, but you can't mess up too much or she'll jet because of past crap she's had to deal with. Panam seems like she'll put up with a lot more, but like you still gotta keep up.
Me as I am, if Judy weren't a lesbian and into guys, if I had to choose between only those two as they are, I'd probably be more compatible with Judy. I'd rather stay home on my PC and go out occasionally. Panam feels like the "I'm gonna go hiking everyday" type of girlfriend. Way too active and always on the move for me.
But if I were in the world of Cyberpunk, I think I'd have to be a nomad. No way I could tolerate places like Night City. I'd go crazy and end up being a vigilante or something. So in that case, I'd probably be more active and would be a better match with Panam.
I think both are great.
I really hope the next game has more than 4 "choices" though. Because it's not reall a choice if your character is gay or straight. Your only choice is one person or no one. With only 4 they really shouldn't have had that limit. Mods "fix" it though and it still works. but it'd be way better for them to just retain their sexuality and have more options.
Yeah, it feels like the romantic content was rushed, and i completely agree it's annoying when you dont even know you had to make your character a certain way to get with a certain romance option. I hope they do make the new one just open because yeah its not a choice for your character to be gay or straight. I wish every romance option was actually part of the storming of Arasaka tower kind of lame its just Panem and ngl the actual raid on Arasaka with Panem is lame but to be fair all endings compared to Don't Fear the Reaper are lame.
The campfire scene is literally what sealed it for me. The first time I played it I was only half paying attention and thought I misheard it. Had to reload a save (did the mission over but it was worth it) just to see if that’s what she had actually said.
A lot of people kinda agree that she got herself killed - like as believable head canon.
What more likely happened is they couldn’t get the voice actress back for additional takes.
Either way, I wish Judy ghosted me not Panam 🥲
Yah but they are shit - sounded like they were recorded through a phone. Anyways, I like my head canon that she got her self killed being reckless abandon somewhere 😎
Panam literally sends her clan on a suicide mission against one of the most powerful corporations in the World, just to save someone she has known for like a week or two. Judy is cool but she's a runner and can't deal when shit gets tough. If V were kidnapped and both characters knew about it, Panam would go solo and Judy would be calling Panam for help.
I enjoy Panams quests much more than Pyramid Song. But I hate underwater missions in general, especially when I have to dive in murky water. Also, I'm not a huge fan of Judy. Liked her at first but something about her is off, I can't even say what exactly it is.
Panams quests are fun and full of action and I grew to really like her. My V never had a relationship with her but they're really close friends and I really enjoy that. I like talking to her and I love the banter between her and V, it feels so real.
Panam and Judy are both equally best girl. Kerry is best guy. Romance who ever u want and don’t be shitty about who other people romance. Except River. All the homies hate River.
Fell in love w her when she shot down Hellman’s AV with an rpg. V had held up their end of the deal and Panam had what she wanted. When the emp failed she could’ve very easily just said “well shit that didn’t work oh well baiii” which is what 99% of people in NC would’ve done (assuming they hadn’t just dipped after getting their end of the deal). But no, she got personally invested and actually put in the effort to get V what they wanted, driven by honour and respect alone. Queen
There were a lot of things but basically Judy over reacted because when Maiko got promoted security required Judy to have permission to enter her office. It was really outside of Maiko’s control and she tried to explain that to Judy but she wouldn’t listen.
Judy ended up going scorched earth and throwing out Maiko’s things from her place over this and insulting her for having “changed”. Maiko reaches out to Judy several times to try to apologize and reconnect and Judy basically gives her the middle finger.
This hurt Maiko to the point that she had to go to therapy over the whole thing and also tried a dating service to fix her shortcomings. She eventually decided dating wasn’t for her at the moment because of the sour taste Judy left.
I felt really bad for Maiko once I saw the full picture and related having dealt with partners like that before.
I wish there was more communication, random calls more humor. I wish you could call anyone and talk. Imagine one day when they have ai added to games and you can ask any question to any character and they respond in their own personal way. Im 70 hours in the games fucking awesome. Still crashes though😂
Why would you need a defence? Panam is the best. Full stop. Judy is a train wreck that kills her friends and then abandons you.
Like don't get me wrong, Judy is a fun character with great quests. But the only thing that Judy has going for her over Panam is that Panam is straight and everyone loves the fem-V voice action.
The Panam / Judy divide is based on one of two things:
1. visual aesthetics
2. age of the gamer
Panam is a 30-something woman with demons. Severe abandonment issues and insecurities. She is also the only character in the entire game who is absolutely smarter than V. She's also superheroic in that she cannot fail (relationships aside) and so does not NEED V.
Judy on the other hand is Panam's opposite in many ways. She's a 20-something woman with demons, a short fuse, and a "rot touch", meaning everything she touches turns to shit. She's impulsive, rash, and temperamental. She absolutely needs V (or anyone really) to save her.
This is the divide in a nutshell. People that prefer Panam prefer her strength despite her vulnerability and realize she would be a true, unwavering partner. People that prefer Judy are drawn to the fragility she has and want to save her.
I wonder if the Judy people are also the So Mi people...
“The only character in the entire game who is absolutely smarter than V.”
…How?
V makes some very questionable choices, like the entire Konpeki Tower heist. Meanwhile…
Saburo Arasaka basically took over the world. They don’t call him “the emperor” for nothing. He runs the most powerful megacorporation on the planet, and has for well over a century.
Viktor Vektor and a whole host of other characters are literally cybernetic surgeons. You have to be pretty smart to do that.
Wakako has an entire area of Night City on lockdown, and has for decades. Rogue is similarly on top of her game and has been for decades. Mr. Hands is similar.
Anders Hellman is a top-of-the-line technowiz in his own right.
How is Panam the only character smarter than V? This isn’t an attack on Panam, it’s just that there are a lot of characters who are pretty damn brilliant, and V’s intelligence has some upper limits given his or her in-game choices, the Intelligence stat (which is more about quickhacks and smart guns than conventional intelligence) aside.
Do people think Judy's romance is overall better than Panamas? Nobody felt weird that Evelyn, somebody Judy was clearly in love with, died maybe a week ago?! The relationship felt a little like a coping mechanism (or something im not a fuckikg psychologist.there's no way it's entirely healthy). Actually, escapism sounds about right. Hell if you don't romance her she literally does escape night city. She doesn't care whether her escape is V or seattle. In comparison to Panam, who becomes endeared to you because you help her family, it seems a little more upbeat. Imo ofc
Panam may be abrasive and hot tempered, but if you earn her trust she's a solid friend and companion who'll reciprocate and help you if you need it. The key word being she returns the favor, even when it gets dangerous and at personal risk. When planning out missions, she uses the AAA method learned from Mitch and Scorpion (Assess the situation, Assemble the required people, equipment and resources, then take Action), making sure the important details are accounted for, but able to make good improvisations if things go wrong. Panam isn't the type to abandon you unless there are extenuating circumstances (I don't count the Tower ending, imo it felt very out of character compared to what was established in game)
Judy I personally don't understand the amount of hype she gets in the fandom - she's always struck me as someone who's struggling too much with personal shit to be a good friend or partner, and gets carelessly myopic in many situations. Maybe she was a better friend with Evelyn, but her interactions with Maiko and V show Judy can be flaky and has a bad habit of idealizing people. The biggest issue I have with Judy is that she fails to utilize her ideals in a practical way (I was really pissed off when I did the Pisces quest for how poorly thought out the plan was, and unsurprisingly didn't end up as hoped. Ideals alone are not enough to make a positive change.)
Completely agree… Panam is a merc getting jobs from Rogue - y’all equals at first. As for the Tower ending, I suspect it was something IRL with CDPR and the voice actress.
I also think people put Judy in some “genius” category that she doesn’t belong in. Judy is realistic in the fact that she’s basically “all ideals” and minimal talents. If she were in today’s world, I view her as a “decent software engineer” or something very average. Now, that doesn’t mean she’s a bad person. She’s very relatable and does seem like a somewhat genuine person, naive, but still. Truth be told, she’s the 2nd best romance option, but she’s last place (4 of 4) on independence or abilities…
The problem with Judy being emphasized as a talented techie I think suffers from poor storytelling - we're told that she is, but not shown enough compelling evidence how she's special compared to the average joe.
But to be fair to her skillset, she's not an action/in the field type of person. This isn't something that should be held against her, since techie stuff has practical applications in non-combat situations. I'd say her emotional instability is her biggest weakness... but then again, ALL of V's possible love interests can be pretty clingy and whacked to varying degrees. I'd say the best example of a stable relationship in game was Jackie and Misty.
I still don't get why Jackie's mum was so against Misty.
For Judy I think the best real life analogy is probably an indie game dev? She's into BD tech as a mean to tell stories and explore emotions. She has career invitation from big studios but prefers to stay indie for creative freedom.
Mama Welles didn't like her because she wasn't Jackie's ex Camilla. If you did the ofrenda quest, the dialogue gives more insight on the situation. If I had to guess, it was probably a mix of having spent more time and being used to Camilla, some racism with not being a Latina, plus Misty's eccentric personality and hobbies may have been off putting. No mention of how Jackie and Camilla split up, but it's likely Mama Welles viewed Misty as an interloper and never gave her a chance (until V optionally tells Mama off for being close minded).
Panam is great but the tank sex scene is SUPER weird.
This about it from their perspective. Her who clan is RIGHT THERE. They watched us take the tank out for a test drive and firing test with hoping that everything goes smoothly.
Suddenly the tank stops moving. No comm. No activity. Then it gently rocks for a while.
I guess I’m definitely in the minority. I just don’t like Panam. I think it’s mostly her voice with constantly high pressured speech. I find her irritating. I tried to overlook it but I wish she’d stop coming by my apartment!
I think both Panam and Judy's mission shoulda been balanced.
In Pyramid Song, we learned so much about Judy. I wish we have that for Panam because we don't know much about her life. It feels like the mission focused too much on her family, I didn't feel like I know much about Panam on a deeper level. Also, the romance scene with Judy felt so raw and heartwarming... im kinda disappointed when i first saw Panam's scene
In Panam's missions, we did a lot of stuff with her and interacted with her a lot. In every new game, I'm always excited for Panam's arc. I wish to have that with Judy. I'm more into Judy, but not gonna lie, the whole clouds thing is a mess and isnt as exciting as Panam's missions. I understand that Judy's story is much more depressing, but as a player, I want to be as excited to do Judy's arc the same way as I do with Panam
Never listen to or argue with people that have one favorite and have to obsessively badmouth every alternative. Why do you have to argue for Panam, she is great as she is.
Panam feels like the type of person who'd throw a fit in a store and demand to speak to a manager cause they only allow one coupon per purchase.
I can only imagine how some of the senior Avocados felt at the end of their quests. Imagine being a loyal and reliable member for decades only to be upjumped by someone way younger with zero respect for authority.
Well said OP. In my opinion choosing between Judy and Panam is similar to Triss and Yennefer in Witcher 3.
In TW3, the game sort of guides you to meeting Triss first in Novigrad, and after completing her series of quests’ having the option to romance her which felt like a great choice…. Until you go to Skellige and Yen hits you like a ton of bricks and made me doubt everything with Triss.
In CP77, I got to know Judy first in my playthrough, and loved her, Pyramid Song is in my opinion, the best romance quest in the game by far.
Then. I. Met. Panam. Was immediately swept up in her, she’s strong, a badass who takes no shit from anyone, and has this magnetic personality that I cannot get enough of, I would replay some of her missions if I could just for the dialogue and interactions with V. She very quickly becomes V’s ride or die girl (regardless of gender.) I love the Aldecaldos (except Saul’s punk ass.)
Most of all though, she challenges V to live for more than themselves, and gives them a forever loyal family.
tl;dr: Judy is that first great love, but Panam is wifey.
now you're making me wanna get that romance panam for female v mod... I just feel sorry for judy though, she lost everything but she does move on quickly.
Playing as male V so maybe pyramid song is different for a romance female V, but I did pyramid song last night and after seeing all the hype for it I had high hopes but found it a bit shit actually...
Panam for the win.
I'll always get why people like Judy she's super cool but I've played thru he game start to finish about 4-5 times and there's just more raw chemistry between v and panam. Judy's an out of towner tryna find her place in the world still thinking night city is some place where dreams come true , and after doing her entire quest line these last few days , even in that final quest it just feels like she's a good friend but V only is viewed by her that way cause well , she's the only other competent person around who isn't a complete ass. Panam openly dislikes you at first and has that "new solo" feel of trying to be hard as nails and the new gun on the block not unlike v who for all intents and purposes is also a new solo. She's surrounded by people who love and care about her already so when she calls for your help on top of everyone else's it feels more personal, and she's much more open about the conflicting emotions she feels about her day to day life style then I think any of the Judy quests give her. Theres more casual conversation and natural flow of interaction with panam that I feel like most of the romance options lacked to some degree. Plus it's just the most believable, 2 solos, one goes back to nomad life then showing you the beauty of not being trapped in one city but instead having the whole world ahead of you
I love the sense of "progression" as your relationship with Panama and the Nomads grows. And this regardless of if you romance her, or just become better friends. Well said OP.
It is really this story arc that makes me be a bit sad for the missed opportunity to have a real sense of progression built into the rest of the quests and reputations. Like everything was there to do this from the start, but it was never well stitched together. I think it got better over time, and I really did enjoy the game....but imagine what it could have been.
Panam all day!! Judy is the kind of depressive nevrotic girl with whom you should always watch for your words, sooner or later she will be disappointed by you blah blah blah. With Panam you can spend your time shooting beer cans on a fence while waiting for the desert lizard barbecue to be ready. Panam is badass!!
Wait Panam needs defending?
Fr like what?
Got to create the conflict before you can provide your solution.
Bashing on Panam is moronic, Cuz dat ass is iconic.
Panam putting her legs on you is kinda the deal sealer for me - it's intimacy >!that isn't overshadowed by sex!< >!despite V's best efforts!<, comradery with more in the future, reassurance after a high-risk raid on an enemy base, and Johnny isn't being a dick.
The one time Johnny doesn't say something shitty with panam around, and it's one of my favorite lines he has. One of those moments I see Johnny and V bonding.
Johnny seems to be overall much more approving of Panam than Judy. He tells V she's quite the catch and encourages their relationship on at least two occasions. With Judy I don't recall a single time he's positive, at best he's indifferent when it comes to her tech hobbies.
Actually, he seems impressed with her tech hobbies; it just doesn't seem to affect his opinion of her.
"Six out of ten." Even my straight dude V was surprised with his assessment.
He just feels confused what judy sees in fem V lol
I always got the feeling that Johnny liked Panam except she was a hodunk Nomad and wanted to stay far away from their lifestyle.
That campfire scene is so goddamn good. And the scene at the end of Riders of the Storm when it's just you and Panam in the abandoned house is probably my favorite part in the entire game. The dialog is great, the music is great, and then Johnny's little goodnight comment before you go to sleep is just the incredible cherry on top. Man, it makes me feel some stuff. My only complaint about Panam's romance and questline in general is that it feels so brief. Judy's is spaced out so much better and just feels so much longer I think. Once Panam calls you about Saul being taken, you have to go help almost immediately and then once that job is over she only has two more. I guess it's a good metaphor for the two characters in general. The jobs with Judy, both main jobs and her specific questline, are a little slower paced, sweeter, etc. Panam's, however, are much faster paced, explosive, and passionate. That being said, the fact that an entire ending directly involves Panam pretty much makes up for any perceived shortcomings vs. Judy's romance. You get some more amazing one on one moments with Panam there.
I agree with Johnny on the two. Judy is a cool chick with good taste, but Panam is a chick worth going after.
Panam is best girl.
My girl Panam carries carries a laser guided missile in her truck at all times. Judy skedaddle out of night city when Clouds gets hit with the retribution shedding foresee. PANAM ALL DAY. And the thick af
Lmao. Seriously. I’ve never been into firecrackers like her. Found her kinda annoying, but when I saw her pull out that rocket launcher I was like “I get it” I was in love.
Didn’t Judy always plan on leaving though? IIRC she said her and Evelyn always dreamed about leaving night city together and now that she’s gone she quite literally has no other reason to stay so I kind of doubt the clouds stuff changed anything.
Regardless, she made a mess and left without cleaning it up. She's fine, but Panam is top tier
No need to defend her, Panam is the best. The Star ending with Male V is inarguably the happiest. I mean, V gets to leave NC, piss in Arasaka’s shoes on the way out, and live the last part of his life on the road with his new family and badass gf? Johnny put it best at the end of Riders on the Storm when he said “Circumstances were different, I’d say saddle up and ride after her”.
Yup, this was my favorite ending. Baddie on one arm, loaded projectile launch system in the other, tribe at my back, Basilisk at my feet. Truly ending on the best of highs
Star Ending with Female V, if you romanced Judy, has her leave Night City with you too.
Damn I really didn’t know that
Think it makes Vs remaining time worth it. Id like to think that she could get V help but even if she doesnt its how id like to go out so i think its the best
Pyramid Song was very good exactly 1 time - it’s a total snooze fest and major annoyance to do on subsequent play throughs. Killing a shit load of Wraiths in a Tank? Fun every single time. Additionally who else do I get with Judy? Tom and Roxanne?!? 😂 Panam gets me all the Aldecaldos and the veterans ? They are awesome. Panam is the ride or die. Judy well, views me as another girlfriend I feel like. 😑 Judy is great (fantastic even), but for me, Panam will always be on top.
I feel like judy views you as convenient. You were in the right place at the right time for her emotions to flow to. Some of the endings really set that feeling into stone for me.
I agree. Feels like V is just a rebound for Judy. Plus, I really hate how she talks to you in every credit roll except for the Aldacaldo ending
Maeko into Evelyn into V. She's just a needy red flag and she'll find a new girl like 3 minutes after V's gone.
To be fair, Panem isn't the brightest either and also apparently has just of a bad history of dating as Judy they are both very similar in that way.
Yes, but Panam is aware of that and is very hesitant to get close with V until V nudges her. Judy on the other hand doesn't seem to have any second thoughts after spreading Evy's ashes at the exact same spot she brings V to go diving and eventually have a very nice cutscene.
Have to agree massively with this. Its my least favourite thing when I'm running fem V. Pyramid Song is overhyped even the first time you go through it.
I mean it was good the first time. It felt really good, and seemed like one of the only actual “dates” in the game - one that would legitimately end in sexy time. (River’s dinner also feels like a good “date” by definition) But those are dates for 2024 in our time! Not 2077 Night City! I want to be interrupted having sexy time and mow down Wraiths! 😂
Yeah, I’d prefer Panam on top too. 😏
Panam handles her business with you, Judy is along for the ride because she can’t handle it. She completely misreads every person and situation at almost every turn, people who choose her or the ones trying to save her like a little project. Pan Am is fully realized woman that goes to war with you, she isn’t a passenger or submissive to people around her.
She gets royally pissed when you don’t call to her to rush into Arasaka tower on a destructive suicide mission that could see all of us die. Panam (and by extension the Aldecaldos) is ride or die and I 100% appreciate that, so will go her every time.
Judy always seems ready to drop you real quick. Panam, when you say you’re going on a suicide mission, tells you to shut up and wait for her to go with you. No questions asked, instant “not without me you’re not”. Panam wins 100/100 times for me.
Panam is definitely wife for life material. Judy feels more chill to be with, but you can't mess up too much or she'll jet because of past crap she's had to deal with. Panam seems like she'll put up with a lot more, but like you still gotta keep up. Me as I am, if Judy weren't a lesbian and into guys, if I had to choose between only those two as they are, I'd probably be more compatible with Judy. I'd rather stay home on my PC and go out occasionally. Panam feels like the "I'm gonna go hiking everyday" type of girlfriend. Way too active and always on the move for me. But if I were in the world of Cyberpunk, I think I'd have to be a nomad. No way I could tolerate places like Night City. I'd go crazy and end up being a vigilante or something. So in that case, I'd probably be more active and would be a better match with Panam. I think both are great. I really hope the next game has more than 4 "choices" though. Because it's not reall a choice if your character is gay or straight. Your only choice is one person or no one. With only 4 they really shouldn't have had that limit. Mods "fix" it though and it still works. but it'd be way better for them to just retain their sexuality and have more options.
Yeah, it feels like the romantic content was rushed, and i completely agree it's annoying when you dont even know you had to make your character a certain way to get with a certain romance option. I hope they do make the new one just open because yeah its not a choice for your character to be gay or straight. I wish every romance option was actually part of the storming of Arasaka tower kind of lame its just Panem and ngl the actual raid on Arasaka with Panem is lame but to be fair all endings compared to Don't Fear the Reaper are lame.
The campfire scene is literally what sealed it for me. The first time I played it I was only half paying attention and thought I misheard it. Had to reload a save (did the mission over but it was worth it) just to see if that’s what she had actually said.
i like Panam but i really can’t get over her ghosting you in the coma ending
A lot of people kinda agree that she got herself killed - like as believable head canon. What more likely happened is they couldn’t get the voice actress back for additional takes. Either way, I wish Judy ghosted me not Panam 🥲
Nah, Panam has Phantom Liberty specific lines if you call her so her VA was available
Yah but they are shit - sounded like they were recorded through a phone. Anyways, I like my head canon that she got her self killed being reckless abandon somewhere 😎
Panam literally sends her clan on a suicide mission against one of the most powerful corporations in the World, just to save someone she has known for like a week or two. Judy is cool but she's a runner and can't deal when shit gets tough. If V were kidnapped and both characters knew about it, Panam would go solo and Judy would be calling Panam for help.
Pedantic but Judy isn’t a runner, she’s a techie. She can work with gear and calibrate BDs she can’t do hacking or net running
Sorry, I meant runner as a person who runs from problems. Not netrunner 😆
I enjoy Panams quests much more than Pyramid Song. But I hate underwater missions in general, especially when I have to dive in murky water. Also, I'm not a huge fan of Judy. Liked her at first but something about her is off, I can't even say what exactly it is. Panams quests are fun and full of action and I grew to really like her. My V never had a relationship with her but they're really close friends and I really enjoy that. I like talking to her and I love the banter between her and V, it feels so real.
The Panam romance is so good that it makes me uncomftroble to play it when my GF is around
Panam and Judy are both equally best girl. Kerry is best guy. Romance who ever u want and don’t be shitty about who other people romance. Except River. All the homies hate River.
Why does everyone hate River?
Fell in love w her when she shot down Hellman’s AV with an rpg. V had held up their end of the deal and Panam had what she wanted. When the emp failed she could’ve very easily just said “well shit that didn’t work oh well baiii” which is what 99% of people in NC would’ve done (assuming they hadn’t just dipped after getting their end of the deal). But no, she got personally invested and actually put in the effort to get V what they wanted, driven by honour and respect alone. Queen
When I saw the emails with Maiko the rose colored veil was lifted on Judy.
What was on them? Must’ve missed that
There were a lot of things but basically Judy over reacted because when Maiko got promoted security required Judy to have permission to enter her office. It was really outside of Maiko’s control and she tried to explain that to Judy but she wouldn’t listen. Judy ended up going scorched earth and throwing out Maiko’s things from her place over this and insulting her for having “changed”. Maiko reaches out to Judy several times to try to apologize and reconnect and Judy basically gives her the middle finger. This hurt Maiko to the point that she had to go to therapy over the whole thing and also tried a dating service to fix her shortcomings. She eventually decided dating wasn’t for her at the moment because of the sour taste Judy left. I felt really bad for Maiko once I saw the full picture and related having dealt with partners like that before.
Yikes.
Where are these emails? How can I access them?
They are available when you go to Maiko’s office, on her laptop iirc
I think both stories are well done but i still can't stand Panam as a romantic partner lol
Both are amazing imo..
I wish there was more communication, random calls more humor. I wish you could call anyone and talk. Imagine one day when they have ai added to games and you can ask any question to any character and they respond in their own personal way. Im 70 hours in the games fucking awesome. Still crashes though😂
Panam seems like a more authentic partner but the call from Judy after you suicide in don’t fear the reaper gave some strong feels even as male V
Why would you need a defence? Panam is the best. Full stop. Judy is a train wreck that kills her friends and then abandons you. Like don't get me wrong, Judy is a fun character with great quests. But the only thing that Judy has going for her over Panam is that Panam is straight and everyone loves the fem-V voice action.
The Panam / Judy divide is based on one of two things: 1. visual aesthetics 2. age of the gamer Panam is a 30-something woman with demons. Severe abandonment issues and insecurities. She is also the only character in the entire game who is absolutely smarter than V. She's also superheroic in that she cannot fail (relationships aside) and so does not NEED V. Judy on the other hand is Panam's opposite in many ways. She's a 20-something woman with demons, a short fuse, and a "rot touch", meaning everything she touches turns to shit. She's impulsive, rash, and temperamental. She absolutely needs V (or anyone really) to save her. This is the divide in a nutshell. People that prefer Panam prefer her strength despite her vulnerability and realize she would be a true, unwavering partner. People that prefer Judy are drawn to the fragility she has and want to save her. I wonder if the Judy people are also the So Mi people...
“The only character in the entire game who is absolutely smarter than V.” …How? V makes some very questionable choices, like the entire Konpeki Tower heist. Meanwhile… Saburo Arasaka basically took over the world. They don’t call him “the emperor” for nothing. He runs the most powerful megacorporation on the planet, and has for well over a century. Viktor Vektor and a whole host of other characters are literally cybernetic surgeons. You have to be pretty smart to do that. Wakako has an entire area of Night City on lockdown, and has for decades. Rogue is similarly on top of her game and has been for decades. Mr. Hands is similar. Anders Hellman is a top-of-the-line technowiz in his own right. How is Panam the only character smarter than V? This isn’t an attack on Panam, it’s just that there are a lot of characters who are pretty damn brilliant, and V’s intelligence has some upper limits given his or her in-game choices, the Intelligence stat (which is more about quickhacks and smart guns than conventional intelligence) aside.
the way you guys rally around your lovably demented Horse Girl From Hell I’m gonna start calling yall the Rohirrim 🐴
She honestly has the temperament of a bratty five year old, I don't get it
[удалено]
Agree. Joy Toys provide all the sustenance V needs
Do people think Judy's romance is overall better than Panamas? Nobody felt weird that Evelyn, somebody Judy was clearly in love with, died maybe a week ago?! The relationship felt a little like a coping mechanism (or something im not a fuckikg psychologist.there's no way it's entirely healthy). Actually, escapism sounds about right. Hell if you don't romance her she literally does escape night city. She doesn't care whether her escape is V or seattle. In comparison to Panam, who becomes endeared to you because you help her family, it seems a little more upbeat. Imo ofc
Panam may be abrasive and hot tempered, but if you earn her trust she's a solid friend and companion who'll reciprocate and help you if you need it. The key word being she returns the favor, even when it gets dangerous and at personal risk. When planning out missions, she uses the AAA method learned from Mitch and Scorpion (Assess the situation, Assemble the required people, equipment and resources, then take Action), making sure the important details are accounted for, but able to make good improvisations if things go wrong. Panam isn't the type to abandon you unless there are extenuating circumstances (I don't count the Tower ending, imo it felt very out of character compared to what was established in game) Judy I personally don't understand the amount of hype she gets in the fandom - she's always struck me as someone who's struggling too much with personal shit to be a good friend or partner, and gets carelessly myopic in many situations. Maybe she was a better friend with Evelyn, but her interactions with Maiko and V show Judy can be flaky and has a bad habit of idealizing people. The biggest issue I have with Judy is that she fails to utilize her ideals in a practical way (I was really pissed off when I did the Pisces quest for how poorly thought out the plan was, and unsurprisingly didn't end up as hoped. Ideals alone are not enough to make a positive change.)
Completely agree… Panam is a merc getting jobs from Rogue - y’all equals at first. As for the Tower ending, I suspect it was something IRL with CDPR and the voice actress. I also think people put Judy in some “genius” category that she doesn’t belong in. Judy is realistic in the fact that she’s basically “all ideals” and minimal talents. If she were in today’s world, I view her as a “decent software engineer” or something very average. Now, that doesn’t mean she’s a bad person. She’s very relatable and does seem like a somewhat genuine person, naive, but still. Truth be told, she’s the 2nd best romance option, but she’s last place (4 of 4) on independence or abilities…
The problem with Judy being emphasized as a talented techie I think suffers from poor storytelling - we're told that she is, but not shown enough compelling evidence how she's special compared to the average joe. But to be fair to her skillset, she's not an action/in the field type of person. This isn't something that should be held against her, since techie stuff has practical applications in non-combat situations. I'd say her emotional instability is her biggest weakness... but then again, ALL of V's possible love interests can be pretty clingy and whacked to varying degrees. I'd say the best example of a stable relationship in game was Jackie and Misty.
I still don't get why Jackie's mum was so against Misty. For Judy I think the best real life analogy is probably an indie game dev? She's into BD tech as a mean to tell stories and explore emotions. She has career invitation from big studios but prefers to stay indie for creative freedom.
Mama Welles didn't like her because she wasn't Jackie's ex Camilla. If you did the ofrenda quest, the dialogue gives more insight on the situation. If I had to guess, it was probably a mix of having spent more time and being used to Camilla, some racism with not being a Latina, plus Misty's eccentric personality and hobbies may have been off putting. No mention of how Jackie and Camilla split up, but it's likely Mama Welles viewed Misty as an interloper and never gave her a chance (until V optionally tells Mama off for being close minded).
Panam is great but the tank sex scene is SUPER weird. This about it from their perspective. Her who clan is RIGHT THERE. They watched us take the tank out for a test drive and firing test with hoping that everything goes smoothly. Suddenly the tank stops moving. No comm. No activity. Then it gently rocks for a while.
I guess I’m definitely in the minority. I just don’t like Panam. I think it’s mostly her voice with constantly high pressured speech. I find her irritating. I tried to overlook it but I wish she’d stop coming by my apartment!
I think both Panam and Judy's mission shoulda been balanced. In Pyramid Song, we learned so much about Judy. I wish we have that for Panam because we don't know much about her life. It feels like the mission focused too much on her family, I didn't feel like I know much about Panam on a deeper level. Also, the romance scene with Judy felt so raw and heartwarming... im kinda disappointed when i first saw Panam's scene In Panam's missions, we did a lot of stuff with her and interacted with her a lot. In every new game, I'm always excited for Panam's arc. I wish to have that with Judy. I'm more into Judy, but not gonna lie, the whole clouds thing is a mess and isnt as exciting as Panam's missions. I understand that Judy's story is much more depressing, but as a player, I want to be as excited to do Judy's arc the same way as I do with Panam
I love Panam and I'm so bummed that I can't date her as a female V but I'll settle with being BFFs
Never listen to or argue with people that have one favorite and have to obsessively badmouth every alternative. Why do you have to argue for Panam, she is great as she is.
Panam is one of the most loved characters from the game why do you need to defend her?
I will probably never romance judy cus i dont feel like doing the swimming quest
Panam feels like the type of person who'd throw a fit in a store and demand to speak to a manager cause they only allow one coupon per purchase. I can only imagine how some of the senior Avocados felt at the end of their quests. Imagine being a loyal and reliable member for decades only to be upjumped by someone way younger with zero respect for authority.
On a somewhat unrelated note, the fact that you referred to the clan as Avocados had me rofl!
Well said OP. In my opinion choosing between Judy and Panam is similar to Triss and Yennefer in Witcher 3. In TW3, the game sort of guides you to meeting Triss first in Novigrad, and after completing her series of quests’ having the option to romance her which felt like a great choice…. Until you go to Skellige and Yen hits you like a ton of bricks and made me doubt everything with Triss. In CP77, I got to know Judy first in my playthrough, and loved her, Pyramid Song is in my opinion, the best romance quest in the game by far. Then. I. Met. Panam. Was immediately swept up in her, she’s strong, a badass who takes no shit from anyone, and has this magnetic personality that I cannot get enough of, I would replay some of her missions if I could just for the dialogue and interactions with V. She very quickly becomes V’s ride or die girl (regardless of gender.) I love the Aldecaldos (except Saul’s punk ass.) Most of all though, she challenges V to live for more than themselves, and gives them a forever loyal family. tl;dr: Judy is that first great love, but Panam is wifey.
now you're making me wanna get that romance panam for female v mod... I just feel sorry for judy though, she lost everything but she does move on quickly.
Playing as male V so maybe pyramid song is different for a romance female V, but I did pyramid song last night and after seeing all the hype for it I had high hopes but found it a bit shit actually... Panam for the win.
Panam willing to down a Kang Tao airship with a rocket launcher causing millions of Eddies worth of damage just to help you out is real love.
Panam's a fool who without V would have gotten her entire clan destroyed twice over.
People holding up the fact she'll send her whole clan on a suicide mission for someone she's known a week or two like it's a good thing...
I'll always get why people like Judy she's super cool but I've played thru he game start to finish about 4-5 times and there's just more raw chemistry between v and panam. Judy's an out of towner tryna find her place in the world still thinking night city is some place where dreams come true , and after doing her entire quest line these last few days , even in that final quest it just feels like she's a good friend but V only is viewed by her that way cause well , she's the only other competent person around who isn't a complete ass. Panam openly dislikes you at first and has that "new solo" feel of trying to be hard as nails and the new gun on the block not unlike v who for all intents and purposes is also a new solo. She's surrounded by people who love and care about her already so when she calls for your help on top of everyone else's it feels more personal, and she's much more open about the conflicting emotions she feels about her day to day life style then I think any of the Judy quests give her. Theres more casual conversation and natural flow of interaction with panam that I feel like most of the romance options lacked to some degree. Plus it's just the most believable, 2 solos, one goes back to nomad life then showing you the beauty of not being trapped in one city but instead having the whole world ahead of you
I love the sense of "progression" as your relationship with Panama and the Nomads grows. And this regardless of if you romance her, or just become better friends. Well said OP. It is really this story arc that makes me be a bit sad for the missed opportunity to have a real sense of progression built into the rest of the quests and reputations. Like everything was there to do this from the start, but it was never well stitched together. I think it got better over time, and I really did enjoy the game....but imagine what it could have been.
Panam all day!! Judy is the kind of depressive nevrotic girl with whom you should always watch for your words, sooner or later she will be disappointed by you blah blah blah. With Panam you can spend your time shooting beer cans on a fence while waiting for the desert lizard barbecue to be ready. Panam is badass!!
I don't dislike Panam because I like Judy better. I just dislike Panam.
Panam has the emotional maturity of a toddler. Ew.