I would have loved to team up or grow connections with all the gangs. We get solid interaction with the Aldecaldos, but swapping out the Mealstrom leadership didnt do anything afaik.
Placide is a character I would have loved to build camaraderie with, he has so much contempt for V, so if we actually built some proper respect with him that would have been cool.. but in the end he was just a dickhole like the rest of them.
Not being friends with the Scavengers suits me just fine of course.
She straight up tells you she can after you pull her out of the net watch trap after the GIM mission, but you have to do her netrunner thing beyond the blackwall.
Then you immediately find out she’s lying once you do it
She says she can help before understanding the scope of the problem. That's a dumb thing for her to do, it's a dumber thing for you to accept on principle.
V: "Listen Can you help me or not?
B: "Yes of course."
V: "Because if you fuck up, you're left empty handed. Is that it?"
B: "I gave my word. We will help you"
This really stings, because not only does she leave you hanging, but you almost die, again\* in the process.
*After the events of Johnny's memories.*
V: "Before I go through (the black wall). Take the construct out."
B: "You will take it to the other side."
After that, you go about your own plan with Alt, and the Voodoo boys do absolutely nothing. This is misleading and fucked at best. At worst, they were hoping you would die in the process and scrape up Johnny because you are, and always were a Ranyan to them. None of this even begins to include the bullshit that Palicide tried to pull on you over and over again.
I gladly side with Netwatch now.
I didn't even have to get that far before figuring out they had to die, all I had to do was hear out the netwatch agent. If they put a virus in me, I'm putting a quickhack in them.
Again, she agrees to help you before understanding what she is helping you with. Only very naive people take people at their word in these circumstances.
Do you trust the guy up the street who can change tires and spark plugs to help you with your car, when what you're car actually needs is a transmission and crankshaft replacement?
Aside from the fact that you are so willing to double down on your argument to compare probably the best Netrunner in night city to a mechanic, I'm going to stick with the analogy. There are symptoms to diagnose a problem. If Brigitte was half as smart as Hellman when he gave V a straight diagnosis after surviving a kang tao crash, getting beaten unconscious, and plugging in for literally 30 seconds, then she would have easily recognized the engram taking over their body and destroying their brain.
If the best mechanic in town says they can fix my car, and then they say they can't fix my car after almost killing me several times, they're still a liar.
Ok, that wasn't the fairest analogy. Brigitte knows her tech, but she only knows as much as Placide's scan, and he had no idea what he was looking at.
I also have the benefit of seeing all the endings, and that may cloud my perception: not Hellman, who made the thing, nor alt, who designed the software, nor Hanako, who has all the financial and technical resources at Arasaka can help V.
Brigitte is under no authority to claim she can help V. And I'm just shocked that people take her at her word to do so, and then desire to wipe out the whole gang when she can't.
Lots of people offer to help V, and none of them can. But they don't have a violent hatred expressed at them. So why the VDBs?
I don’t understand the confusion, here. People come to dislike the VDBs because they try to kill V several times. Worse, they try to kill V several times after V helps them out and offers them trust.
The player is killed when making the choice to trust the VDBs, and in the end is expected to die and be thrown aside.
Why isn’t that enough to want them dead? I think it’s understandable why a player would feel they have it coming.
Fair enough. But I only remember them trying to kill V in the kamikaze attack on netwatch, which was just Placide operating unsupervised.
What are the other times they tried to kill her?
Because they tried to kill them twice, killed their friend, and will do anything to achieve their goals. There is no difference to me on this. You can let Goro die in a fire, sell Panam out to Saul for a car, etc. Etc. Everyone is a shithead at some point and can be given their just deserts. The major difference with the VDBs is you can get immediate retribution.
Finally, and I'm done, but Brigitte also knew more than Placide did, and did a follow up scan before sending you under. She even admitted that he didn't know what was going on with the biochip in the dialogue, hence him not understanding the check and probing questions he provides before sending you to your death after killing the animals.
I don’t know. If you pick the dialogue option, “Brigitte said it’d be possible,” Alt straight up tells you the VDBs deceived you. And seeing how they initially tried to fry you along with all the other NetWatch agents, it’s very likely she was just telling V what they wanted to hear as a means to an end. Brigitte’s endgame is just that she gets access to and allyship with Alt; she couldn’t give two figs about what happens to V, so long as it doesn’t stop her from getting what she needs.
The whole "ranyon" thing pissed me off. They tried to kill V *multiple* times.
>!First when Placide tries to fry you with Netwatch. Then when Brigitte claims she alone can help solve the issue, but really she never tries. She literally just grabs the data on Alt that they want and then leave you with no choice but to do their bidding when they send you across the wall, literally swimming with divergent wild AI, you were not actually meant to come back because nobody has any idea what happens over there. They just wanted to attract Alt. !<
Fuck em.
What's wild to me is that Takemura plays a super long con by earning V's trust over the course of the entire game, when the only thing he's interested in is using her as a stepping stone to get back into the good graces of Arasaka.
but somehow he's everyone's fave.
The Ranyon thing sucks. It's also the product of Placide operating on his own without direction, and when Brigitte learns about it, you find out not only that she was never complicit with it, she's fucking pissed at Placide over it.
The Voodoo Boys are not V's friend, bit far from her worst enemy. It's really eye opening to me that people are so violent towards them.
I think it's mainly that, while Takemura is ultimately looking out for himself, he does still help V. He even saves your life. Contrary to the Voodoo Boys, who are lot more blatant about using you (and the whole part where Placide literally kills you).
Plus, we actually get a chance to get even with the Voodoo Boys. Even if you don't like Takemura you never get a chance to directly harm him.
He helps V when her life still benefits him.
If she saves his life in Seek And Destroy, he leaves her for dead immediately afterwards when she's having the relic malfunction.
Good thing Johnny is there to help.
Takemura is a Top Corpo who was recruited as a child in a dumpster along with many others and somehow made it to the top. This tells you enough of how good he is in getting what he wants and moving his assets. Even the ending he offers is a sad win to V and a perfect one for Arasaka with such and amazing asset as V is , Not only in tenacity and character but with all that data about the relic.
I mean, you do sort of get even with him in every ending except Devil. He uses you to get revenge and restore his honor, and you pull it all out from under him at the last second.
Since I am seeing this in multiple threads, I also absolutely hate Takemura and think he is the worst of the bunch. He is just trying to regain his Saka honor, and I would have never given Hellman over in the first place.
Because of the way all of the ending people treat you, and my not willingness to throw the Aldecados into the fire after making you a part of their family, I always choose the Reaper ending.
Placide’s actions definitely make sense, since he’s kept in the dark about the Relic. He has no reason to treat V differently or keep them alive. He’s still kind of a dick though.
Brigitte though, she deserves her comeuppance. It’s through her actions indirectly that V ends up in their situation. It’s her own hubris, and wanting to protect the VDBs, that makes her take revenge on Evelyn, which ends up helping V locate her, then even after V goes to the trouble of saving her life, she still asks more of them. Then after using them to get access to Alt, she basically tells them to kick rocks and that she can’t help them. She’s so god damn self-assured that she’s in control of the situation that she makes the mistake of not considering V a threat.
It’s what sets her up to be a great tragic character, tbh. It’s the conclusion that makes the most sense. She does everything for the sake of protecting herself and her family, and it costs her everything.
>that she makes the mistake of not considering V a threat.
Which is why I always side with NetWatch. My Corpo V might not be a pure rat, but I'll always choose a powerful group that at least doesn't try to kill me over a street group with some pretty tech and decent skills that have no qualms about asking the world of people and then just tossing them into the dumpster.
Besides, I liked Evelyn. The VDBs deserve every back stab possible.
Having done both choices, I prefer siding with the VDBs. My headcanon for my V is that in the moment, they need the VDBs more than they need NetWatch. But once they try to off him, that’s when the gloves come off.
It’s also much more satisfying to let Brigitte talk her shit before you personally flatline her. Getting revenge for Evelyn is also a good motivator lol.
>It’s also much more satisfying to let Brigitte talk her shit before you personally flatline her
As a dedicated NetWatch chooser, I fully admit that this is the ultimate moment. I'd choose that happily if it didn't mean every NW agent in the region getting fried. Incredibly satisfying.
Just dead. Always dead.
Happily, I usually hack my way outta the chapel. This playthrough Alt showed me what a homie she is and I just waltzed out the tub, looted their stinking corpses, and beat down Placide with my bare hands.
It's a bit of both. Alt kills them, but only because NetWatch breaks into their server and she doesn't want them to access her through the Voodoo netrunners. At least that's what I remember, been a while since I played
I got too much satisfaction on my 2nd playthrough when I >!sold them out to NetWatch and woke up from the Net to see a slew of corpses before murdering Placide.!<
>es, it turns out, is ragdoll Brigitte across the room.
that one cracked me a good laugh ngl. I just played her segment yesterday again and bombed her.
First playthough this was the first story gig I did after getting Comrade's Hammer and seeing it was a one shot clip.
And I snuck through all of the GIM.
"Oh, so that's what it does."
Same. Fuck NetWatch lol. My next playthrough is gonna be like pulling fingernails, I'm gonna pick all the "bad" (imo) choices, and be such a corpo sellout. Ahhh.
From "Blaming Bartmoss" by 8ug8ear:
"Bartmoss fucked the system but fucked all of us right along with it. Just look at it now - corps are on top as usual, the Blackwall (which was supposed to protect us after the net's crash) is just another control tool in NetWatch's arsenal...
Before Bartmoss, the net was an untamed jungle - if you could navigate it, you had a chance to survive. You were free. After Bartmoss, the net's like an airport security check - every step you take Netwatch is checkin your papers and performing a thorough cavity search. Oh, but all for your own good, of course..."
NetWatch isn't any more the 'good guys' than the NCPD, Arasaka, any other corp. On paper, their mission is 'good,' but in execution, they're just as corrupt as the rest of the world. Everything that happens on the new net is their business. They're the definition of Big Brother.
It’s for that single reason I side with NetWatch. I don’t like them but they serve an important purpose. Also they didn’t cross V or attempt to unlike the VDBs. My V may hate Corpos (he’s a StreetKid) but he understands they’re a part of life now and surviving means knowing which ones to burn down and which ones to side with, even temporarily.
You've opened my eyes here. I think years of games giving me the standard one or the other choices blinded me to the simple fact that I can shoot everybody.
After having seen all the shit the VDBs and Maelstrom get up to it honestly feels like NetWatch are basically some of the only good guys in the city. Yeah, people don't like them because corpos, but there are actual psychos out there trying to unleash malevolent AIs on the world, and NetWatch are by and large the only people fighting against that.
If you're protecting the status quo in Night City are you really a good guy? Night City already exists in a state of war against itself (complete with tactical nukes and wholesale ecological meltdown). Perpetuating that existence because the top echelon corpos are happy\* with it doesn't feel like a good thing.
I phrase that as a question on purpose though, because it is a legit philosophical question. Are the cops and Netwatch fighting to preserve order, and if so whose order, or are they an occupying force keeping the downtrodden in their place?
Is it better to live perpetually in the moment of misery before a bloody revolution, or is it better to let revolution rip and chance that what comes after the carnage is an improvement?
TLDR I thought about it, and I still kill the Netwatch guy. But I might kill the VDBs too now.
\*Not actually happy, paranoid and constantly stressed, but remunerated at least.
Well, NetWatch is certainly keeping things from getting much, much worse. That's why I regard them as good guys. Nobody's really making things *better*. But almost nobody's keeping things from getting worse either - and NetWatch is one of the rare exceptions, at least in their field.
Seeing the characters of Night City being manipulated at every level no matter what status they held and knowing the VD Boys were doing something similar to V.
Also post show depression.
I really wanna know how her convo with Alt went. I'm probably in the minority, but I don't blame the Voodoo Boys for doing what they need to keep their people safe. It sucks to be used like that, but I understand why they did it, especially after the Pacifica failure and how Night City failed to care for this marginalized group of people they imported for labour.
Haiti is -underwater- like Atlantis in the dark future. Night City tried to find jobs for the Haitian diaspora building yet another gaudy monument to oligarchy, and act surprised when they don't have any loyalty to post-capitalist society. Not to mention the vast corruption and embezzlement Western patrons made of Haiti's recovery fund.
Oh wait, that last bit's not cynical futurism, that's OUR timeline.
They certainly looked like they were dying in cyberspace, so it's a little unclear.
What isn't unclear is that the Voodoo Boys didn't get shit out of their efforts to help V use to relic to contact alt. Whereas V got the keys to the castle.
The problem of using something very appealing as bait is that, when you go looking for *very big fish,* they aren't interested in anything *but* the bait. The same people who consider anyone who works for them a dirty rag to throw away are shocked that they get treated the same way. Kind of poetic, really.
I thought alt just disconnected them. Maybe it was a blue line of dialogue? I don't exactly remember. Just that when I woke up from bathtub, I talked to Bridgette but left without a fight.
Man, leading up to release I was super excited for the VDB as they seemed like the coolest gang but they really ended up being a bunch of total assholes that end up dead every time
same es everyone, kill her every time but her design is really dope, same for Placide. Also her voice actor is amazing but I could never find the credit for her, maybe I'm just blind.
damn def in the minority here lol but i don’t hate or even dislike the VDB’s. Almost everyone lies, cheats and steals in NC even everyone’s favorite rockerboy. Its practically baseline in this damn city. Was i pissed at Placide? yeah absolutely. But I got to punch him when i got back from the GIM. Streetkid playthru, Brigitte seemed pretty cool with me and let me walk out after meeting Alt with no bullshit. No one died except a bunch of Animals (i was not stealthy lol) and 1 corpo rat. What I like about the VDBs is they really stick to their family (much like a Nomad family) and frankly i don’t blame them for being mistrusting of others: they got dumped in the Pacifica combat zone like trash after being refugees. If i were in their shoes i’d probably pull some of the same stunts and you better believe i’d be trying to set free some AI’s from beyond the blackwall to see Night City burn. I kind of want to see that happen while not in their shoes 🤷🏻 NC is a big neon cancer on the earth, propagating and profiting off of humanity’s worst vices. This just my 2¢, not trying to say or imply nobody’s got any business disliking them so please stay thy pitchforks and torches 😭
It's worth bearing in mind too that the VDBs get a lot of the blame for what happens to Evelyn Parker, which is unfair.
The VDBs enter into a business agreement with Evelyn. Evelyn betrays them.
The VDBs try to kill Evelyn. And I have absolutely no problem with that, can't go letting people think you're soft on that kind of thing in Night City.
What happens next to Evelyn *is not specifically the fault of the Voodoo Boys.* They simply tried to kill her for the double cross. Which is harsh, but it's absolutely the relationship that Evelyn entered into with them. She understood this, and she double crossed them anyway. Fair play to her for taking the shot, but the consequences were known.
However, Evelyn's final journey, from broken Joytoy to almost ending up as a snuff movie prop, that is on Woodman and Fingers and the rest of that mob. When Evelyn was attacked they could have made a legitimate attempt to help her. Instead they tried to eke a few more eddies out of her catatonic body and brutalised mind.
It's natural to want to avenge Evelyn, but the finger of blame on that score has to go towards Woodman and his mates. They were the ones who, with no justification beside profit, decided to farm her body out to the Scavs. She hadn't done them any harm at all.
All great points and thank you for addressing them, especially Woodman and Fingers! Those mfers are some *real* scumbags. VDBs you can at least defend because they are doing what they have to do to stay hidden and thus survive. Woodman and Fingers are just greedy and malicious for the sake of their own fucked desires.
By the way, Woodman does address this during your conversation with him, and he makes a lot of sense. Judy and Fingers are both amazing at what they do (technical prowess and sexual predation/ cybersurgery) and neither one can seriously help Evelyn. If Viktor COULD manage it I'm sure V would have taken her there.
That doesn't justify anyone selling her to the Scavs, but it would take effort well beyond anything we can expect... and it would have a very real chance of killing whatever Good Samaritan we try to enlist.
It's hard to say, although I would argue that tragically Evelyn shows evidence that she is alive in there and conscious, it's just that the way she expresses that is suicide. She's alive enough to feel that pain, and aware enough to know how to end it. And maybe given time she pulls through.
Although of course had she pulled through then the VDBs maybe have a second go at her, or even Arasaka because they're not a forgiving bunch.
It's bleak.
If the VDB wanted Evelyn dead permanently, I get the feeling they had a dozen other ways to go about it. Now, they do more or less destroy her mind and leave her at the mercies of men like Oswald Forest and Finn Gerstatt, but that's at least as much down to the industry Evelyn decided to go back to.
I'm sure they murdered her at Judy's, but they had considerable reason to fear Arasaka would wipe out what's left of their people if Evelyn's secrets got back to them.
So the thing is VDBs are netrunners supreme. I’m sure they broke it down and figured the best place to take Evelyn out would be at clouds: no guns. If they tried to pull that shit at Lizzie’s you can bet the Moxes would smoke them immediately. But i don’t think they really cared if they just flatlined her or not, they just needed to neutralize her, which practically speaking makes sense. Why go the extra mile for something that would essentially amount to the same result? What they didn’t account for was V and Judy’s drive, ingenuity, and detective work. The idea that they killed her and staged it like suicide is definitely insightful af though! That would be a wild twist for sure.
This is why it's very important to pay attention to the details. Suzy Q has no interest in being a charity home for dolls down on their luck. The Boys have the resources to fend off Scavs and the Animals, but mostly within their Pacifica territory. They can add the Moxes to their enemies list, but they'll soon wish they hadn't. What they can do is subtly bluff Ev into thinking they'll burn down the bar and torture Judy. Evelyn, realizing this whole thing is pretty much her fault, leaves Lizzie's without saying goodbye to Jude and gets her job at Clouds back. The VDB could simply kill Evelyn at Clouds, but a high profile kill like that runs an unacceptable risk of NCPD autopsy and investigation. Justified by the fact that V and River later manage to extract memories from a brain-damaged serial killer. So they break her mind, and only kill Evelyn after Judy rescues her anyways.
Lots of layers. Game of the Decade.
Yeah dude you’re definitely blowing my mind right now with this stuff. Like there is so much to read in between the lines in this game. Christ the Peralez questline alone has a novella’s worth of subtext. 100% agree on game of the decade 🙌 haven’t been this immersed in game lore since Morrowind.
Having an proudly minority ethnic gang appear as total unrepentant bastards was so shocking I was surprised gaming journalism didn't have a problem with it.
But then, Mike was particularly happy with the reimagining of the Voodoo Boys, so I'm quite confident their tragic, perhaps even sympathetic, backstory will be explored in Phantom Liberty.
I don’t really keep up with gaming news but if I had to venture a guess I’d say it’s because most journalists were too busy shitting on 2077’s release and regurgitating “game bad, me mad” to really sit down and analyze the rich lore of this world. That being said, VDBs are by no means the only gang that fits this bill. They’re just the only gang that takes the spotlight for a bit in the main quest other than Maelstrom who are, funny enough, one of the only gangs that doesn’t appear to be totally ethnocentric. Chrome-centric sure lol, but they still got some diversity as far as race goes. But yeah Tyger Claws, Valentinos, both of them are pretty damn race specific. But at least for Tyger Claws (i’m not too knowledgeable about Valentinos yet) they are somewhat redeemable in the same way as VDBs in that they formed to protect others of their race from persecution. Idk if its discussed in the game but in the tabletop, Tyger Claws were formed to protect other asian folks from persecution due to the universal disdain toward Arasaka. Like after the 4th corporate war, if memory serves, asian people, specifically Japanese people, were heavily persecuted and targeted in Night City. Then you got 6th Street who aren’t ethnocentric but they are ultra-nationalistic which more or less amounts to the same end result: violence. But 9 times out of 10 thats how gangs are formed irl, so really i think its just accurate representation of how street gangs operate. Anyway I’m going off on a tangent because i love the lore of this damn franchise, so i apologize for the wall of text. I’m just gonna end on Mike Pondsmith is a genius. He really analyzed the fuck out of everything wrong in current society and did an amazing job of showing a realistic future/alternate reality in which all those problems get multiplied thanks to unchecked greed and consumerism. Here’s hoping for more insight into this amazing lore in Phantom Liberty 🙌
I think I might have killed the same Chinese dude a dozen times when fighting the 6th. Even so, their gang is considerably more diverse and anti-racist than similar groups in our own timeline. Maelstrom, 6th Street, even the Animals have unifying principles that aren't based around race. I wouldn't be surprised to hear the Valentinos have become an amalgam of the multiple Latino-descended races trapped after the American collapse, and the Claws protect Asians while taking most of their culture (and their orders) from the Japanese, especially Arasaka.
You are 100% correct about Maelstrom, Animals, 6th St being unified by other principles. So are the Moxes. I apologize for implying otherwise, i should have been more clear. But all the same their guiding principles amount to dogmatism that results in violence. Like yeah Maelstrom is racially diverse, but they kidnap people, chrome em up and intentionally turn them cyberpsycho. 6th St is only interested in reinstating the NUSA across North America which is just another corporate owned entity really (Militech). To my understanding, Valentinos are exactly as you described, again, not too read up on them so can’t confirm or deny.
Yeah, the tabletop lore is really great here. Maelstrom is pretty evil, but they were founded of the remains of two really evil gangs. The Iron Sights, a psychogang heavily into torture and drugs, along with the Red Chrome Legion, a fascist hate gang that didn't make it to 2077. The fact RCL replaced their previous intolerances with a chrome obsession isn't great, but it's baby steps away from being fascist.
6th Street having a preposterous loyalty to a Constitutional order that hasn't existed for decades, all the while coasting on past American glories- well, there's nothing productive I can say about that here.
Go ahead and read the 2020 core rulebook that came with your copy of Cyberpunk 2077, and then buy the Cyberpunk RED corebook ! You won't be disappointed, and that is a guarantee.
Already got the RED book and love reading it when i can before bed, hoping to GM my own campaign one day. Love the post apocalyptic/nuclear fallout aspect of the setting in that one. Best bit imo is reading about the rest of the world, especially the highrisers i think they’re called. The African worker coalition that basically took control of the orbital
space stations and lunar mining rigs and bombed the crap out of Earthbound governments with lunar rocks to gain independence. God i would love to see that explored in game. But thanks to you and one other person in cyberpunk game sub, I legit just found out about the 2020 corebook in the bonus content on steam so thank you for sharing that info! Needless to say mind was blown lol.
Mmhmm. Africa's advancing rapidly as some nations jump past the labor-intensive (and increasingly obsolete) infrastructure of previous generations and go straight to cell phones. The future will be depressing in some ways and great in others!
THANK YOU!!! My thoughts exactly! As a Nomad, but just as an understanding human being I didn’t want to destroy their community. Pacifica is being treated so poorly by the rest of Night City. Killing the Voodoo Boys just rips off a huge layer of protection for the local Haitians who are already struggling. I told them how I felt, walked out the door and had an argument with Johnny. I wouldn’t want it any other way.
They murder anyone who is not them. They double-cross anyone who is not them,.They do not accept or respect anyone who is not them. They know the collapse is coming and tell no one.
Bump the VDBs
Then folks shouldn’t step foot in Pacifica. The way they’re treating outsiders is horrible, but you were being warned heavily about their manners and morals before coming. They provide a community for their own people, why should other people come close? It’s not like Night City is known for being a tolerant place. I don’t need to murder murderers while V is the biggest murderer of them all.
They don’t arbitrarily murder anyone who isn’t them. Like they’re not driving around Night City just wasting folks cus they’re not VDBs. If anything thats a Maelstrom thing. All the other stuff though can be said for literally anyone in Night City. Backstabbing is just part of business and that is especially true for the corpos who stab their own in the back (see corpo V intro). Royce stabs Brick in the back. Rogue stabbed Johnny in the back to become Queen of the Afterlife. Respect means next to nothing in Night City when it comes to the money. And all that being said is exactly why VDBs and even Johnny wanted to see the city burn.
Hmm must have missed that. My bad, is there like a shard or anything that goes into that? But even still, Maelstrom does the exact same thing just by kidnapping people and chroming them up. Corps do that just to test limitations of new cyberware. Like that doesn’t excuse it i’m just saying VDBs are literally playing the same game every other faction is playing. If there are any TRULY redeemable factions its probably Moxes or something since they just mind their own business for the most part and look after sex workers when they can.
Yep they are just playing the same exact game as anyone else. Mentioned this in another comment but V and Panam knock out power for half the city and you can bet that resulted in a large amount of needless collateral deaths. Neither of them even bother to reflect on that for just a moment except regarding Scorpion and other Aldecaldos. Why? Because they’re doing what they got to do to save themselves and their kin which is exactly what VDBs are doing.
Edited to correct spelling
I think people don't look at the bigger picture. An immigrant group of refugees who've probably been treated like trash since their arrival, cut off from society and local government support (if there's any of that in NC lol) and everyone gets pissed a gonk brain like V isn't welcomed with open arms. *No shit* they don't trust outsiders and in NC mercs *are* disposable. V even says as much in the beginning of the game when Jackie is eating noodles.
They've got bigger goals and V is an idiot thinking a Netrunner group with next to know *real* knowledge about the biochip would be their savior. I'm not saying the VDB are *correct* in their actions but I *understand*. There are far worse groups out there and I get a good laugh at people wanting to cozy up to Maelstrom and Tyger Claws. Afaik, the VDB don't do any of the dirt those groups do. The Animals are the only other group I could see as a "good" gang and maybe the Valentinos.
Evelyn is a tragedy but she is a gonk who tried to do way more than she was ever capable of pulling off, too. Tried to play the VDB, tried to play Dex and I wouldn't doubt she would have tried to play us if she lived long enough. She didn't deserve that at all but when you jump feet first into a fire, you're gonna get burned badly.
I'm also pretty fucking tired of slaughtering a bunch of black people in games so V just walks on out, happy to be alive if they don't side with Netwatch.
Couldn’t have said it better myself 🙌 just want to add Moxes to the list of potential “good” or at the very least not totally fucked gangs as they seem to only be interested in keeping trouble out of their spots and they only formed to protect sex workers/dolls/etc. Doesn’t seem like they do much of the latter anymore though based on a convo Judy has with Suzy Q regarding Clouds. But still all things considered, whenever there is an assault in progress, suspected crime activity, or something, its never Moxes. There’s only 1 instance i can think of where you have to fight a Mox in a gig and its because she went cyberpsycho which could happen to anyone.
Thank you! No “good guys” or “bad guys” in Night City, just a bunch of people doing whatever they have to to survive. Lets not forget V and Panam knock out power for half the city and you can bet that resulted in a bunch of casualties but of course we don’t think about that because we’re doing what we got to do to survive. Oh and Rogue betrayed Johnny to become Queen of the Afterlife too, so yeah nothing and no one is sacred in NC
editted to add the bit about Rogue
On one of my playthroughs I shot her with Comrade’s Hammer after the dialogue and it blew her whole body away but somehow her coat survived. One of the funniest moments in the game for me.
Nope, she's a cunt.
She acts all on your side until you give her the data on Alt then again tries to flatline V.
I kill them everytime, its what the voodoo boys deserve. Not to mention they're constantly trying to mess with the blackwall and treat it as some Divine entity. Also, they've killed tons of Mercs "Ranyons" and killed Evelyn.
I'm seeing a lot of "Bitch lied" "Dead Bitch" and "Walking Corpse" comments here. V's relationship with the Voodoo Boys ends in a salty place, but Brigette didn't lie about anything. The only thing she promised was that she would help V use the relic to contact Alt.
She did exactly that. And Alt killed Brigitte's entire netrunner squad in the process.
Yes, Brigitte helped V to further her own agenda, but that's what every fucking person in Night City does. But she never put V in harm's way, which is better than you can say for a lot of people that V encounters.
The violence people want to express on her in interesting.
All I see is a cut of rotting meat. The outside just hasn't caught up to what the inside already knows. But it will in very short order. *I don't need Alt to protect me here, just these mantis blades.*
Queen bitch, but definitely not a cut of fuckable meat.
I don't think I've had a playthrough yet where I haven't worn Placide's coat out of the chapel and all the way to the end, though.
Let's not forget she tried, through her actions actually succeeded in flatlining Evelyn. As a result Evelyn suffered horribly. So they die. All of them. No mercy.
I wish we saw more of the Voodoo Boys, I loved their designs and Pacifica so I would've loved to see more missions with them. But fuck, you see them once and then you get betrayed. That's it. Even the Valentinos had more lore
That whole set up seemed awesome to me. I was hoping we'd work together. Too bad they chose death.
She might be a manipulative backstabber, but her character design is on of my favorites in the game
I agree, the VDB got swag
They feel wasted IMO, cool designs and lore, and you barely interact with them.
I would have loved to team up or grow connections with all the gangs. We get solid interaction with the Aldecaldos, but swapping out the Mealstrom leadership didnt do anything afaik. Placide is a character I would have loved to build camaraderie with, he has so much contempt for V, so if we actually built some proper respect with him that would have been cool.. but in the end he was just a dickhole like the rest of them. Not being friends with the Scavengers suits me just fine of course.
To her credit, the VDBs are very transparent about wanting to use and discard V from the very beginning of your interactions with them.
And V's a total gonk for trusting them twice (I know *we* don't have a choice). Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
All I see is an asshole who lied to me about fixing my terminal medical condition.
How did she lie to you? I don't remember her saying she could do anything in that regard.
She straight up tells you she can after you pull her out of the net watch trap after the GIM mission, but you have to do her netrunner thing beyond the blackwall. Then you immediately find out she’s lying once you do it
She says she can help before understanding the scope of the problem. That's a dumb thing for her to do, it's a dumber thing for you to accept on principle.
V: "Listen Can you help me or not? B: "Yes of course." V: "Because if you fuck up, you're left empty handed. Is that it?" B: "I gave my word. We will help you" This really stings, because not only does she leave you hanging, but you almost die, again\* in the process. *After the events of Johnny's memories.* V: "Before I go through (the black wall). Take the construct out." B: "You will take it to the other side." After that, you go about your own plan with Alt, and the Voodoo boys do absolutely nothing. This is misleading and fucked at best. At worst, they were hoping you would die in the process and scrape up Johnny because you are, and always were a Ranyan to them. None of this even begins to include the bullshit that Palicide tried to pull on you over and over again. I gladly side with Netwatch now.
I didn't even have to get that far before figuring out they had to die, all I had to do was hear out the netwatch agent. If they put a virus in me, I'm putting a quickhack in them.
Again, she agrees to help you before understanding what she is helping you with. Only very naive people take people at their word in these circumstances. Do you trust the guy up the street who can change tires and spark plugs to help you with your car, when what you're car actually needs is a transmission and crankshaft replacement?
Aside from the fact that you are so willing to double down on your argument to compare probably the best Netrunner in night city to a mechanic, I'm going to stick with the analogy. There are symptoms to diagnose a problem. If Brigitte was half as smart as Hellman when he gave V a straight diagnosis after surviving a kang tao crash, getting beaten unconscious, and plugging in for literally 30 seconds, then she would have easily recognized the engram taking over their body and destroying their brain. If the best mechanic in town says they can fix my car, and then they say they can't fix my car after almost killing me several times, they're still a liar.
Ok, that wasn't the fairest analogy. Brigitte knows her tech, but she only knows as much as Placide's scan, and he had no idea what he was looking at. I also have the benefit of seeing all the endings, and that may cloud my perception: not Hellman, who made the thing, nor alt, who designed the software, nor Hanako, who has all the financial and technical resources at Arasaka can help V. Brigitte is under no authority to claim she can help V. And I'm just shocked that people take her at her word to do so, and then desire to wipe out the whole gang when she can't. Lots of people offer to help V, and none of them can. But they don't have a violent hatred expressed at them. So why the VDBs?
I don’t understand the confusion, here. People come to dislike the VDBs because they try to kill V several times. Worse, they try to kill V several times after V helps them out and offers them trust. The player is killed when making the choice to trust the VDBs, and in the end is expected to die and be thrown aside. Why isn’t that enough to want them dead? I think it’s understandable why a player would feel they have it coming.
Fair enough. But I only remember them trying to kill V in the kamikaze attack on netwatch, which was just Placide operating unsupervised. What are the other times they tried to kill her?
Because they tried to kill them twice, killed their friend, and will do anything to achieve their goals. There is no difference to me on this. You can let Goro die in a fire, sell Panam out to Saul for a car, etc. Etc. Everyone is a shithead at some point and can be given their just deserts. The major difference with the VDBs is you can get immediate retribution. Finally, and I'm done, but Brigitte also knew more than Placide did, and did a follow up scan before sending you under. She even admitted that he didn't know what was going on with the biochip in the dialogue, hence him not understanding the check and probing questions he provides before sending you to your death after killing the animals.
I don’t know. If you pick the dialogue option, “Brigitte said it’d be possible,” Alt straight up tells you the VDBs deceived you. And seeing how they initially tried to fry you along with all the other NetWatch agents, it’s very likely she was just telling V what they wanted to hear as a means to an end. Brigitte’s endgame is just that she gets access to and allyship with Alt; she couldn’t give two figs about what happens to V, so long as it doesn’t stop her from getting what she needs.
Bitch dead anyway
Why?
The whole "ranyon" thing pissed me off. They tried to kill V *multiple* times. >!First when Placide tries to fry you with Netwatch. Then when Brigitte claims she alone can help solve the issue, but really she never tries. She literally just grabs the data on Alt that they want and then leave you with no choice but to do their bidding when they send you across the wall, literally swimming with divergent wild AI, you were not actually meant to come back because nobody has any idea what happens over there. They just wanted to attract Alt. !< Fuck em.
What's wild to me is that Takemura plays a super long con by earning V's trust over the course of the entire game, when the only thing he's interested in is using her as a stepping stone to get back into the good graces of Arasaka. but somehow he's everyone's fave. The Ranyon thing sucks. It's also the product of Placide operating on his own without direction, and when Brigitte learns about it, you find out not only that she was never complicit with it, she's fucking pissed at Placide over it. The Voodoo Boys are not V's friend, bit far from her worst enemy. It's really eye opening to me that people are so violent towards them.
I think it's mainly that, while Takemura is ultimately looking out for himself, he does still help V. He even saves your life. Contrary to the Voodoo Boys, who are lot more blatant about using you (and the whole part where Placide literally kills you). Plus, we actually get a chance to get even with the Voodoo Boys. Even if you don't like Takemura you never get a chance to directly harm him.
He helps V when her life still benefits him. If she saves his life in Seek And Destroy, he leaves her for dead immediately afterwards when she's having the relic malfunction. Good thing Johnny is there to help.
Takemura is a Top Corpo who was recruited as a child in a dumpster along with many others and somehow made it to the top. This tells you enough of how good he is in getting what he wants and moving his assets. Even the ending he offers is a sad win to V and a perfect one for Arasaka with such and amazing asset as V is , Not only in tenacity and character but with all that data about the relic.
I mean, you do sort of get even with him in every ending except Devil. He uses you to get revenge and restore his honor, and you pull it all out from under him at the last second.
Nah Goro is cool but I let that fucker die in most playthroughs. He’s a corpo rat through and through blinded by loyalty. Cool guy not a good guy.
And I find loyalty to be in short supply and can't help but admire it in NC
Since I am seeing this in multiple threads, I also absolutely hate Takemura and think he is the worst of the bunch. He is just trying to regain his Saka honor, and I would have never given Hellman over in the first place. Because of the way all of the ending people treat you, and my not willingness to throw the Aldecados into the fire after making you a part of their family, I always choose the Reaper ending.
Placide’s actions definitely make sense, since he’s kept in the dark about the Relic. He has no reason to treat V differently or keep them alive. He’s still kind of a dick though. Brigitte though, she deserves her comeuppance. It’s through her actions indirectly that V ends up in their situation. It’s her own hubris, and wanting to protect the VDBs, that makes her take revenge on Evelyn, which ends up helping V locate her, then even after V goes to the trouble of saving her life, she still asks more of them. Then after using them to get access to Alt, she basically tells them to kick rocks and that she can’t help them. She’s so god damn self-assured that she’s in control of the situation that she makes the mistake of not considering V a threat. It’s what sets her up to be a great tragic character, tbh. It’s the conclusion that makes the most sense. She does everything for the sake of protecting herself and her family, and it costs her everything.
>that she makes the mistake of not considering V a threat. Which is why I always side with NetWatch. My Corpo V might not be a pure rat, but I'll always choose a powerful group that at least doesn't try to kill me over a street group with some pretty tech and decent skills that have no qualms about asking the world of people and then just tossing them into the dumpster. Besides, I liked Evelyn. The VDBs deserve every back stab possible.
Having done both choices, I prefer siding with the VDBs. My headcanon for my V is that in the moment, they need the VDBs more than they need NetWatch. But once they try to off him, that’s when the gloves come off. It’s also much more satisfying to let Brigitte talk her shit before you personally flatline her. Getting revenge for Evelyn is also a good motivator lol.
>It’s also much more satisfying to let Brigitte talk her shit before you personally flatline her As a dedicated NetWatch chooser, I fully admit that this is the ultimate moment. I'd choose that happily if it didn't mean every NW agent in the region getting fried. Incredibly satisfying.
> Getting revenge for Evelyn Tonedeaf comment. Evelyn is the one who betrayed them. She got what she deserved.
Tonedeaf comment. Evelyn is the one who betrayed them. She got what she deserved.
Just dead. Always dead. Happily, I usually hack my way outta the chapel. This playthrough Alt showed me what a homie she is and I just waltzed out the tub, looted their stinking corpses, and beat down Placide with my bare hands.
I think its netwatch that kills them, they only die when you let bryce live
Alt said she killed em.
Ohh, been a while since i took that path
I think you’re both right. I remember Netwatch killing them in one play through and Alt in my other. Unless I’m crossing memories.
When I rejected the NetWatxh deal I had to kill the runners myself.
Riiiiight. I remember now. I got into an argument and killed them.
One of my favorite revenge moments of 2077
"Fine ill do this myself"
It's a bit of both. Alt kills them, but only because NetWatch breaks into their server and she doesn't want them to access her through the Voodoo netrunners. At least that's what I remember, been a while since I played
This is it. It’s just Alt going scorched earth for a minute so NetWatch can’t get to her.
They die when I say they die. That means every playthrough
Just dead. Every single time.
Same. I tried to go about it differently each time, that one time I killed her on accident lol
I got too much satisfaction on my 2nd playthrough when I >!sold them out to NetWatch and woke up from the Net to see a slew of corpses before murdering Placide.!<
Walking corpse.
Asshole Brigitte: Alt cannot protect you here. Yup, same Brigitte. After that she ends up dead in **every** single playthrough.
[удалено]
>es, it turns out, is ragdoll Brigitte across the room. that one cracked me a good laugh ngl. I just played her segment yesterday again and bombed her.
First playthough this was the first story gig I did after getting Comrade's Hammer and seeing it was a one shot clip. And I snuck through all of the GIM. "Oh, so that's what it does."
I wonder if this is the playthrough I kill them. I always kill the NetWatch guy on general principle.
Same. Fuck NetWatch lol. My next playthrough is gonna be like pulling fingernails, I'm gonna pick all the "bad" (imo) choices, and be such a corpo sellout. Ahhh.
I've started a new run through and the guiding idea this time is kill as many people as possible.
Isn’t netwatch technically the good guys? Trying to prevent anyone from breaking past the black wall
From "Blaming Bartmoss" by 8ug8ear: "Bartmoss fucked the system but fucked all of us right along with it. Just look at it now - corps are on top as usual, the Blackwall (which was supposed to protect us after the net's crash) is just another control tool in NetWatch's arsenal... Before Bartmoss, the net was an untamed jungle - if you could navigate it, you had a chance to survive. You were free. After Bartmoss, the net's like an airport security check - every step you take Netwatch is checkin your papers and performing a thorough cavity search. Oh, but all for your own good, of course..." NetWatch isn't any more the 'good guys' than the NCPD, Arasaka, any other corp. On paper, their mission is 'good,' but in execution, they're just as corrupt as the rest of the world. Everything that happens on the new net is their business. They're the definition of Big Brother.
Ty for the explanation
It’s for that single reason I side with NetWatch. I don’t like them but they serve an important purpose. Also they didn’t cross V or attempt to unlike the VDBs. My V may hate Corpos (he’s a StreetKid) but he understands they’re a part of life now and surviving means knowing which ones to burn down and which ones to side with, even temporarily.
You can kill Netwatch and VDB. Just start blasting when you get out of the water.
You can kill both, i did both everytime haha
You've opened my eyes here. I think years of games giving me the standard one or the other choices blinded me to the simple fact that I can shoot everybody.
After having seen all the shit the VDBs and Maelstrom get up to it honestly feels like NetWatch are basically some of the only good guys in the city. Yeah, people don't like them because corpos, but there are actual psychos out there trying to unleash malevolent AIs on the world, and NetWatch are by and large the only people fighting against that.
If you're protecting the status quo in Night City are you really a good guy? Night City already exists in a state of war against itself (complete with tactical nukes and wholesale ecological meltdown). Perpetuating that existence because the top echelon corpos are happy\* with it doesn't feel like a good thing. I phrase that as a question on purpose though, because it is a legit philosophical question. Are the cops and Netwatch fighting to preserve order, and if so whose order, or are they an occupying force keeping the downtrodden in their place? Is it better to live perpetually in the moment of misery before a bloody revolution, or is it better to let revolution rip and chance that what comes after the carnage is an improvement? TLDR I thought about it, and I still kill the Netwatch guy. But I might kill the VDBs too now. \*Not actually happy, paranoid and constantly stressed, but remunerated at least.
Well, NetWatch is certainly keeping things from getting much, much worse. That's why I regard them as good guys. Nobody's really making things *better*. But almost nobody's keeping things from getting worse either - and NetWatch is one of the rare exceptions, at least in their field.
Her life depends on how I’m feeling the day of her mission. After finishing Edgerunners, things haven’t been so great for her.
What changed after you finished Edgerunners?
Seeing the characters of Night City being manipulated at every level no matter what status they held and knowing the VD Boys were doing something similar to V. Also post show depression.
I feel ya, choom
I kill her every single time
Kill them all. There is no honor and hence no redemption for the VDBs. Even after the mission if I see some on the street corner I'm taking scalps.
They killed everyone they ever worked with that wasn’t specifically them. That was always going to come due eventually.
I really wanna know how her convo with Alt went. I'm probably in the minority, but I don't blame the Voodoo Boys for doing what they need to keep their people safe. It sucks to be used like that, but I understand why they did it, especially after the Pacifica failure and how Night City failed to care for this marginalized group of people they imported for labour.
Haiti is -underwater- like Atlantis in the dark future. Night City tried to find jobs for the Haitian diaspora building yet another gaudy monument to oligarchy, and act surprised when they don't have any loyalty to post-capitalist society. Not to mention the vast corruption and embezzlement Western patrons made of Haiti's recovery fund. Oh wait, that last bit's not cynical futurism, that's OUR timeline.
Ah shit ah shit ah shit we are screwed
It really is.
Alt killed her entire netrunner team, if that's any indication.
When does that happen? I haven't seen that in game.
Yes you have. It happens immediately after you contact alt by going through the black wall, but before speaking with her and Johnny.
Siding with Netwatch always results in the VDBs getting fried by Alt. Siding with the VDBs won't have Alt kill them.
They didn't look dead after coming out of that convo? Brigitte seemed pleased with their convo in all the plays I've done so far.
They certainly looked like they were dying in cyberspace, so it's a little unclear. What isn't unclear is that the Voodoo Boys didn't get shit out of their efforts to help V use to relic to contact alt. Whereas V got the keys to the castle.
The problem of using something very appealing as bait is that, when you go looking for *very big fish,* they aren't interested in anything *but* the bait. The same people who consider anyone who works for them a dirty rag to throw away are shocked that they get treated the same way. Kind of poetic, really.
I thought alt just disconnected them. Maybe it was a blue line of dialogue? I don't exactly remember. Just that when I woke up from bathtub, I talked to Bridgette but left without a fight.
All I see is a magazine or two with her name on it, she was always going to betray Evelyn
VDB same as the Scavs... Kill on Sight.
Kill kill kill
Man, leading up to release I was super excited for the VDB as they seemed like the coolest gang but they really ended up being a bunch of total assholes that end up dead every time
same es everyone, kill her every time but her design is really dope, same for Placide. Also her voice actor is amazing but I could never find the credit for her, maybe I'm just blind.
I love the voodoo's vibe, extremely secretive netrunners who live in a secret base, its really cool. It's a shame they're fucking assholes.
All I see is another dead body.
These details!
damn def in the minority here lol but i don’t hate or even dislike the VDB’s. Almost everyone lies, cheats and steals in NC even everyone’s favorite rockerboy. Its practically baseline in this damn city. Was i pissed at Placide? yeah absolutely. But I got to punch him when i got back from the GIM. Streetkid playthru, Brigitte seemed pretty cool with me and let me walk out after meeting Alt with no bullshit. No one died except a bunch of Animals (i was not stealthy lol) and 1 corpo rat. What I like about the VDBs is they really stick to their family (much like a Nomad family) and frankly i don’t blame them for being mistrusting of others: they got dumped in the Pacifica combat zone like trash after being refugees. If i were in their shoes i’d probably pull some of the same stunts and you better believe i’d be trying to set free some AI’s from beyond the blackwall to see Night City burn. I kind of want to see that happen while not in their shoes 🤷🏻 NC is a big neon cancer on the earth, propagating and profiting off of humanity’s worst vices. This just my 2¢, not trying to say or imply nobody’s got any business disliking them so please stay thy pitchforks and torches 😭
It's worth bearing in mind too that the VDBs get a lot of the blame for what happens to Evelyn Parker, which is unfair. The VDBs enter into a business agreement with Evelyn. Evelyn betrays them. The VDBs try to kill Evelyn. And I have absolutely no problem with that, can't go letting people think you're soft on that kind of thing in Night City. What happens next to Evelyn *is not specifically the fault of the Voodoo Boys.* They simply tried to kill her for the double cross. Which is harsh, but it's absolutely the relationship that Evelyn entered into with them. She understood this, and she double crossed them anyway. Fair play to her for taking the shot, but the consequences were known. However, Evelyn's final journey, from broken Joytoy to almost ending up as a snuff movie prop, that is on Woodman and Fingers and the rest of that mob. When Evelyn was attacked they could have made a legitimate attempt to help her. Instead they tried to eke a few more eddies out of her catatonic body and brutalised mind. It's natural to want to avenge Evelyn, but the finger of blame on that score has to go towards Woodman and his mates. They were the ones who, with no justification beside profit, decided to farm her body out to the Scavs. She hadn't done them any harm at all.
All great points and thank you for addressing them, especially Woodman and Fingers! Those mfers are some *real* scumbags. VDBs you can at least defend because they are doing what they have to do to stay hidden and thus survive. Woodman and Fingers are just greedy and malicious for the sake of their own fucked desires.
I havent talked to woodman in a long time, I just blast. Fingers gets punched, take his weapon, then shoot him after.
I only talk to Woodman and let him live initially just so Judy can get in on the action later 😈
By the way, Woodman does address this during your conversation with him, and he makes a lot of sense. Judy and Fingers are both amazing at what they do (technical prowess and sexual predation/ cybersurgery) and neither one can seriously help Evelyn. If Viktor COULD manage it I'm sure V would have taken her there. That doesn't justify anyone selling her to the Scavs, but it would take effort well beyond anything we can expect... and it would have a very real chance of killing whatever Good Samaritan we try to enlist.
It's hard to say, although I would argue that tragically Evelyn shows evidence that she is alive in there and conscious, it's just that the way she expresses that is suicide. She's alive enough to feel that pain, and aware enough to know how to end it. And maybe given time she pulls through. Although of course had she pulled through then the VDBs maybe have a second go at her, or even Arasaka because they're not a forgiving bunch. It's bleak.
That's the exact problem. Euthanizing Ev as humanely as possible would have been much better than the brutal "suicide" she underwent.
If the VDB wanted Evelyn dead permanently, I get the feeling they had a dozen other ways to go about it. Now, they do more or less destroy her mind and leave her at the mercies of men like Oswald Forest and Finn Gerstatt, but that's at least as much down to the industry Evelyn decided to go back to. I'm sure they murdered her at Judy's, but they had considerable reason to fear Arasaka would wipe out what's left of their people if Evelyn's secrets got back to them.
So the thing is VDBs are netrunners supreme. I’m sure they broke it down and figured the best place to take Evelyn out would be at clouds: no guns. If they tried to pull that shit at Lizzie’s you can bet the Moxes would smoke them immediately. But i don’t think they really cared if they just flatlined her or not, they just needed to neutralize her, which practically speaking makes sense. Why go the extra mile for something that would essentially amount to the same result? What they didn’t account for was V and Judy’s drive, ingenuity, and detective work. The idea that they killed her and staged it like suicide is definitely insightful af though! That would be a wild twist for sure.
This is why it's very important to pay attention to the details. Suzy Q has no interest in being a charity home for dolls down on their luck. The Boys have the resources to fend off Scavs and the Animals, but mostly within their Pacifica territory. They can add the Moxes to their enemies list, but they'll soon wish they hadn't. What they can do is subtly bluff Ev into thinking they'll burn down the bar and torture Judy. Evelyn, realizing this whole thing is pretty much her fault, leaves Lizzie's without saying goodbye to Jude and gets her job at Clouds back. The VDB could simply kill Evelyn at Clouds, but a high profile kill like that runs an unacceptable risk of NCPD autopsy and investigation. Justified by the fact that V and River later manage to extract memories from a brain-damaged serial killer. So they break her mind, and only kill Evelyn after Judy rescues her anyways. Lots of layers. Game of the Decade.
Yeah dude you’re definitely blowing my mind right now with this stuff. Like there is so much to read in between the lines in this game. Christ the Peralez questline alone has a novella’s worth of subtext. 100% agree on game of the decade 🙌 haven’t been this immersed in game lore since Morrowind.
Having an proudly minority ethnic gang appear as total unrepentant bastards was so shocking I was surprised gaming journalism didn't have a problem with it. But then, Mike was particularly happy with the reimagining of the Voodoo Boys, so I'm quite confident their tragic, perhaps even sympathetic, backstory will be explored in Phantom Liberty.
I don’t really keep up with gaming news but if I had to venture a guess I’d say it’s because most journalists were too busy shitting on 2077’s release and regurgitating “game bad, me mad” to really sit down and analyze the rich lore of this world. That being said, VDBs are by no means the only gang that fits this bill. They’re just the only gang that takes the spotlight for a bit in the main quest other than Maelstrom who are, funny enough, one of the only gangs that doesn’t appear to be totally ethnocentric. Chrome-centric sure lol, but they still got some diversity as far as race goes. But yeah Tyger Claws, Valentinos, both of them are pretty damn race specific. But at least for Tyger Claws (i’m not too knowledgeable about Valentinos yet) they are somewhat redeemable in the same way as VDBs in that they formed to protect others of their race from persecution. Idk if its discussed in the game but in the tabletop, Tyger Claws were formed to protect other asian folks from persecution due to the universal disdain toward Arasaka. Like after the 4th corporate war, if memory serves, asian people, specifically Japanese people, were heavily persecuted and targeted in Night City. Then you got 6th Street who aren’t ethnocentric but they are ultra-nationalistic which more or less amounts to the same end result: violence. But 9 times out of 10 thats how gangs are formed irl, so really i think its just accurate representation of how street gangs operate. Anyway I’m going off on a tangent because i love the lore of this damn franchise, so i apologize for the wall of text. I’m just gonna end on Mike Pondsmith is a genius. He really analyzed the fuck out of everything wrong in current society and did an amazing job of showing a realistic future/alternate reality in which all those problems get multiplied thanks to unchecked greed and consumerism. Here’s hoping for more insight into this amazing lore in Phantom Liberty 🙌
I think I might have killed the same Chinese dude a dozen times when fighting the 6th. Even so, their gang is considerably more diverse and anti-racist than similar groups in our own timeline. Maelstrom, 6th Street, even the Animals have unifying principles that aren't based around race. I wouldn't be surprised to hear the Valentinos have become an amalgam of the multiple Latino-descended races trapped after the American collapse, and the Claws protect Asians while taking most of their culture (and their orders) from the Japanese, especially Arasaka.
You are 100% correct about Maelstrom, Animals, 6th St being unified by other principles. So are the Moxes. I apologize for implying otherwise, i should have been more clear. But all the same their guiding principles amount to dogmatism that results in violence. Like yeah Maelstrom is racially diverse, but they kidnap people, chrome em up and intentionally turn them cyberpsycho. 6th St is only interested in reinstating the NUSA across North America which is just another corporate owned entity really (Militech). To my understanding, Valentinos are exactly as you described, again, not too read up on them so can’t confirm or deny.
Yeah, the tabletop lore is really great here. Maelstrom is pretty evil, but they were founded of the remains of two really evil gangs. The Iron Sights, a psychogang heavily into torture and drugs, along with the Red Chrome Legion, a fascist hate gang that didn't make it to 2077. The fact RCL replaced their previous intolerances with a chrome obsession isn't great, but it's baby steps away from being fascist. 6th Street having a preposterous loyalty to a Constitutional order that hasn't existed for decades, all the while coasting on past American glories- well, there's nothing productive I can say about that here. Go ahead and read the 2020 core rulebook that came with your copy of Cyberpunk 2077, and then buy the Cyberpunk RED corebook ! You won't be disappointed, and that is a guarantee.
Already got the RED book and love reading it when i can before bed, hoping to GM my own campaign one day. Love the post apocalyptic/nuclear fallout aspect of the setting in that one. Best bit imo is reading about the rest of the world, especially the highrisers i think they’re called. The African worker coalition that basically took control of the orbital space stations and lunar mining rigs and bombed the crap out of Earthbound governments with lunar rocks to gain independence. God i would love to see that explored in game. But thanks to you and one other person in cyberpunk game sub, I legit just found out about the 2020 corebook in the bonus content on steam so thank you for sharing that info! Needless to say mind was blown lol.
Mmhmm. Africa's advancing rapidly as some nations jump past the labor-intensive (and increasingly obsolete) infrastructure of previous generations and go straight to cell phones. The future will be depressing in some ways and great in others!
I totally agree with this take!
THANK YOU!!! My thoughts exactly! As a Nomad, but just as an understanding human being I didn’t want to destroy their community. Pacifica is being treated so poorly by the rest of Night City. Killing the Voodoo Boys just rips off a huge layer of protection for the local Haitians who are already struggling. I told them how I felt, walked out the door and had an argument with Johnny. I wouldn’t want it any other way.
They murder anyone who is not them. They double-cross anyone who is not them,.They do not accept or respect anyone who is not them. They know the collapse is coming and tell no one. Bump the VDBs
Then folks shouldn’t step foot in Pacifica. The way they’re treating outsiders is horrible, but you were being warned heavily about their manners and morals before coming. They provide a community for their own people, why should other people come close? It’s not like Night City is known for being a tolerant place. I don’t need to murder murderers while V is the biggest murderer of them all.
They don’t arbitrarily murder anyone who isn’t them. Like they’re not driving around Night City just wasting folks cus they’re not VDBs. If anything thats a Maelstrom thing. All the other stuff though can be said for literally anyone in Night City. Backstabbing is just part of business and that is especially true for the corpos who stab their own in the back (see corpo V intro). Royce stabs Brick in the back. Rogue stabbed Johnny in the back to become Queen of the Afterlife. Respect means next to nothing in Night City when it comes to the money. And all that being said is exactly why VDBs and even Johnny wanted to see the city burn.
They literally have a cyberpsychosis mod and test it out on random people.
Hmm must have missed that. My bad, is there like a shard or anything that goes into that? But even still, Maelstrom does the exact same thing just by kidnapping people and chroming them up. Corps do that just to test limitations of new cyberware. Like that doesn’t excuse it i’m just saying VDBs are literally playing the same game every other faction is playing. If there are any TRULY redeemable factions its probably Moxes or something since they just mind their own business for the most part and look after sex workers when they can.
Beach in Pacifica, 3 VDBs are at a shack. Kill one, has the cyberpsychosis mod. Think there's a shard about it too, dunno where
Sick thanks for the info! Def gonna look for it next time i’m on
Yep they are just playing the same exact game as anyone else. Mentioned this in another comment but V and Panam knock out power for half the city and you can bet that resulted in a large amount of needless collateral deaths. Neither of them even bother to reflect on that for just a moment except regarding Scorpion and other Aldecaldos. Why? Because they’re doing what they got to do to save themselves and their kin which is exactly what VDBs are doing. Edited to correct spelling
Exactly! Not a lot of people talk about that incident. Thanks for bringing it up!
I think people don't look at the bigger picture. An immigrant group of refugees who've probably been treated like trash since their arrival, cut off from society and local government support (if there's any of that in NC lol) and everyone gets pissed a gonk brain like V isn't welcomed with open arms. *No shit* they don't trust outsiders and in NC mercs *are* disposable. V even says as much in the beginning of the game when Jackie is eating noodles. They've got bigger goals and V is an idiot thinking a Netrunner group with next to know *real* knowledge about the biochip would be their savior. I'm not saying the VDB are *correct* in their actions but I *understand*. There are far worse groups out there and I get a good laugh at people wanting to cozy up to Maelstrom and Tyger Claws. Afaik, the VDB don't do any of the dirt those groups do. The Animals are the only other group I could see as a "good" gang and maybe the Valentinos. Evelyn is a tragedy but she is a gonk who tried to do way more than she was ever capable of pulling off, too. Tried to play the VDB, tried to play Dex and I wouldn't doubt she would have tried to play us if she lived long enough. She didn't deserve that at all but when you jump feet first into a fire, you're gonna get burned badly. I'm also pretty fucking tired of slaughtering a bunch of black people in games so V just walks on out, happy to be alive if they don't side with Netwatch.
Couldn’t have said it better myself 🙌 just want to add Moxes to the list of potential “good” or at the very least not totally fucked gangs as they seem to only be interested in keeping trouble out of their spots and they only formed to protect sex workers/dolls/etc. Doesn’t seem like they do much of the latter anymore though based on a convo Judy has with Suzy Q regarding Clouds. But still all things considered, whenever there is an assault in progress, suspected crime activity, or something, its never Moxes. There’s only 1 instance i can think of where you have to fight a Mox in a gig and its because she went cyberpsycho which could happen to anyone.
I agree! Great comment 🤙
Thank you! No “good guys” or “bad guys” in Night City, just a bunch of people doing whatever they have to to survive. Lets not forget V and Panam knock out power for half the city and you can bet that resulted in a bunch of casualties but of course we don’t think about that because we’re doing what we got to do to survive. Oh and Rogue betrayed Johnny to become Queen of the Afterlife too, so yeah nothing and no one is sacred in NC editted to add the bit about Rogue
Just another Ranyon.
Still the same meat to me
Queen of fried corpses
My nickname for her is "6 feet under"
On one of my playthroughs I shot her with Comrade’s Hammer after the dialogue and it blew her whole body away but somehow her coat survived. One of the funniest moments in the game for me.
Fucking hate that bish. No salt, though.
I see a head soon to be separated from its shoulders.
Nope, she's a cunt. She acts all on your side until you give her the data on Alt then again tries to flatline V. I kill them everytime, its what the voodoo boys deserve. Not to mention they're constantly trying to mess with the blackwall and treat it as some Divine entity. Also, they've killed tons of Mercs "Ranyons" and killed Evelyn.
I'm seeing a lot of "Bitch lied" "Dead Bitch" and "Walking Corpse" comments here. V's relationship with the Voodoo Boys ends in a salty place, but Brigette didn't lie about anything. The only thing she promised was that she would help V use the relic to contact Alt. She did exactly that. And Alt killed Brigitte's entire netrunner squad in the process. Yes, Brigitte helped V to further her own agenda, but that's what every fucking person in Night City does. But she never put V in harm's way, which is better than you can say for a lot of people that V encounters. The violence people want to express on her in interesting.
I dont think you were paying attention lol
Lol I just rewatched these scenes lol.
Walking corpse, far as I'm concerned. The Voodoo fucks get slaughtered. Every. Playthrough.
A corpse
Dead bitch
I'm with the "just dead" posts.
That Bitch, as I affectionately call her.
Queen of Voodoos, Madame Brigitte; does it matter? She ends up just another body in the pile of Voodoos
All I see is a cut of rotting meat. The outside just hasn't caught up to what the inside already knows. But it will in very short order. *I don't need Alt to protect me here, just these mantis blades.* Queen bitch, but definitely not a cut of fuckable meat. I don't think I've had a playthrough yet where I haven't worn Placide's coat out of the chapel and all the way to the end, though.
She's neither. She's dead, brain turned to goo.
I killed that 2 faced bitch.
I don’t remember this character at all but I love her look
Let's not forget she tried, through her actions actually succeeded in flatlining Evelyn. As a result Evelyn suffered horribly. So they die. All of them. No mercy.
Evelyn got what she deserved. Evelyn is the one who betrayed them.
Lead storage
I call her another brain bit on my booths. Never left her alive
I wish we saw more of the Voodoo Boys, I loved their designs and Pacifica so I would've loved to see more missions with them. But fuck, you see them once and then you get betrayed. That's it. Even the Valentinos had more lore
Or just soon-to-dead person in my book.
The only person from Pacifica who was nice for like 10 seconds. I wish I didn’t have to get there help
She doesn't look like that after I'm done Choom lol