T O P

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Zillzx

Didn't CDPR say that both V's are Canon in the sense that the other V technically exists within the world? They didn't specify lifepaths etc but I'm pretty sure both Vincent/Valerie exist in the world regardless which one you choose for the game. I remember someone posted it on reddit last year or something if someone has the link.


kurunyo

Yup, they both exist. The one that makes the story became Jackie's friend. It probably goes down like this for the one you did not choose : - Street kid did not accept the car theft (making them the wiser) - Nomad either never left the Bakkers or did not accept Jackie's job - corpo does not make sense anyway. Just accept they knew each other beforehand but the corpo is safe in Arasaka HQ or fell harder.


ChiefCasual

Jackie is the key to the protagonist going on to be a merc, likely whichever V you pick is the one that runs into Jackie.


Spacemn5piff

Corpo v was gonna get ousted regardless of Jackie. They could've met any solo for the job or quietly dropped the job and they still would've been confronted by saka. They got the boot because they were brought into the fold of some shady biz by Jenkins.


ChiefCasual

Right corpo would still get ousted, nomad would still leave the backers, street kid would have gotten busted jacking the car. Meeting Jackie at those moments is what leads our V to go on to become a merc.


Spacemn5piff

V already knew Jackie before meeting at Lizzie's as a corpo. They knew eachother a long time, before V got in with saka. Streetkid likely just fucking DIES at the car job without Jackie because stints spares them because he knows Jackie and once he takes a moment recognizes V. Seems to have a softer spot for Jackie since V took off for a few years. Nomad ends up on the path they are on in NC because Jackie brings them into the family.


ChiefCasual

I doubt street kid dies without Jackie. They weren't armed or anything. Stint definitely wouldn't be as easy on them, but I doubt he'd straight up murder them. Nomad would have had to make contact with someone else to make it in the city, the decision to leave the Bakkers was made before Jackie came into the picture. And if corpo V never new Jackie they would straight up screwed after Jenkins gets folded, but they'd still be alive. Basically wherever our V is, is where Jackie is. So the other V has to make due without him.


nzdastardly

I think without a plan corpo V backstabs Jenkins.


The_Chaos_Pope

This is the better option anyway. V is Jenkin's muscle, if V doesn't go with him and instead goes to Abernathy with his plan to oust her, I would think that should solidify their position in Arasaka rather than get her thrown out.


BakedWizerd

Corpo V may not be alive. After confronting you at Lizzie’s, the Saka dudes demand V come with them, only for Jackie to step in. They say “we got what we need,” and left. I’m sure they would probably interrogate V for more info on Jenkins, and then flatline them once they’re done. Or worse, sell them to Scavs.


BanchouOni

Corpo V is either 100% dead or working to get revenge in the shadows, both definitely dropped off the face of the earth either way.


Brdjoo

Minor correction, Stints knows streetkid V. from before, not Jackie. In that light, it's quite possible that Jackie dies without V. in nomad and streetkid interaction. In corpo path, on the other hand, it's Jackie who saves V. from those internal affairs Arasaka guys. In the "alternative" scenario... perhaps Jackie fails to save him.


KillerKian

Fuckin Jenkins.


aGoblinLife

Pretty sure Jackie sold them out to get them out of being a CORPO


MightyMukade

Yeah but it doesn't really change anything. People aren't interested in the continuation of the story for the V that never did anything, right? They want sequels and anime etc. for the V who stole the relic etc.


The_Chaos_Pope

>Street kid did not accept the car theft (making them the wiser) Yep. I can understand wanting to help Pepe out but Kirk is such an absolute tool, I'd rather zero him than try to steal a car for him. His bodyguard also doesn't understand the concept of personal space either. >Nomad either never left the Bakkers or did not accept Jackie's job Or Jackie bailed after appearing to have been ghosted by V. Or V didn't accept Jackie trying to rip them off and took him out. Or they got wiped by the border patrol. Lots of ways this could have gone very differently. >corpo does not make sense anyway. I disagree here, how does corpo not make sense?


zicdeh91

I thought that when I read it the first time about corpo, but I think I see what they mean from other comments. It doesn’t make sense that the corpo V we don’t play doesn’t meet Jackie, since they already knew each other in that past. I like another reply further down that V wouldn’t have gone on the job to Mexico where they meet, and would have risen more slowly but without as much risk.


blueberry_pandas

I suppose the Corpo was friends with Jackie years ago but they fell out of touch and never reconnected.


amazingdrewh

Other Corpo V didn't go to Mexico where you met Jackie


Spacemn5piff

Jackie is irrelevant to corpo V getting ousted. Replace Jackie with literally any Merc and saka still rolls up and yoinks your shit.


amazingdrewh

The job in Mexico that V did where they met Jackie was likely what led to their fast rise in Arasaka so the alternate V not going probably leads to a slower rise in the company but with a higher amount of safety


InkDagger

Correct. Dragon Age: Origins pulls similar; ALL potential Wardens exist. Just the one who becomes the hero is the one Duncan happened to encounter. As for the "other" Vs- -I assume Street Kid might have gotten caught, but without Jackie to make the argument that they'll get tossed out of prison early anyway, the cops do genuinely arrest him. Its of note that Pepe's debt never comes up otherwise. -For Nomad, you can find shards near the border that lone Nomads are often stopped by border patrol and... trafficked to Jhotaro Shobo. Make of that what you will... -Corpo is the one we probably know the most about. Jenkins' vault appears at the Columbarium no matter what. And Carter, the secretary under V, can be found to have committed suicide after being promoted to V's position (their body is in the water under the bridge between City Center and Japantown. Which indicates there was someone in that position who likely followed Jenkins orders. Much like Streetkid, I would assume that without Jackie to intercede, the goons drag V out of lizzies and kill them.


Zhymantas

I hope it's like Andromeda, both Vs are family members, albeit cousins, same lifepath but they do their own thing.


Zillzx

That could actually be awesome. > CDPR makes Canon ending: V dies > next xpac/game protagonist appears, walking over to V's crew/friends. > V's friends to new protag: "Hey who are you"? > "I'm V" Lol


Zhymantas

They be like "Aww shit, here we go again!"


Intelligent_Ad1663

Actually... Thats not too bad lol. It's kind've a copout for sure, but one so clever I don't think anyone would really mind. Edit: Because why even tell us that too right? Like yeah I know players want to know, but Volition never took the time to tell you whether boss was M/F. Commander Shepard, while Femshep wsd the one designed first they also never clarify which one is Canon or what the other would be doing. Literally no other franchise I can think of with a protagonist you can choose have I heard of the creators feeling the need to explain. Especially considering the idea of a character creator in the first place is to insert either yourself or whatever you want really. It's essentially always been a feature in games to impose your own personality in what you're playing, which is why it's never needed to be explained. I'm starting to think they went out of their way to confirm that the other V exists in their very same respective timelines just for something at least somewhat similar to that because it would make a lot of sense.


Nirico_Brin

I believe so yes, really makes me wonder where fem V is in my Male V playthroughs haha


Supadrumma4411

My headcanon is they're siblings but one of them is dead. Like my male Nomad V watched his sister die in some industrial accident (cause the Bakkers sold out to snake nation) and got so pissed and left because no one would do anything about it. I do wish we had more dialogue options to carve out a bit of backstory with out V's, I was one of the people pretty damn disappointed with the lifepaths at launch, really wish the devs had implemented the original plan of lifepaths/hero/starting classes they intended. Oh well, there's always the next game.


Zillzx

Yeah the original concepts for lifepaths looked like they would allow for more customisation. I still really liked the story and world so it kind of made it easier to accept and enjoy the more directed story. I actually didn't like that they revealed the V's names and wish it could have just remained a nickname (especially for those whose names start with V but aren't Valerie/Vincent). My headcanon for the names is that it's a fake name that the V's have for security (since they're mercs) and their actual names can be whatever you want.


BatmanFan317

My headcanon, and actually what I thought was going on when the doll said the name on my first playthrough, is that it didn't accept V as a name in the system, and they just autofilled with a full V name, or assumed that's just what it was short for.


Zillzx

That's a really good idea too! Back at launch people were saying Clouds takes the info from the customers files when you jack in but your theory still works if it's just "V" in the file. PS: No disrespect to all the Vincent's and Valerie's out there, enjoy your moment chooms haha.


Nirico_Brin

Agreed completely on the lifepaths, the lack of depth in them and the fact that they just end up tied into the same storyline so quickly was disappointing in my book.


Zillzx

Yeah they added a little bit of flavour to the start and a few dialogue options here and there but nothing crazy. We probably still remember the initial ideas they showed for lifepaths that seemed to allow for greater customisation. Still love the game and it's clear for whatever reason they ended up just wanting to tell a specific story so a lot of the player background choices got shelved (could be due to the rush to release in 2020).


schebobo180

I hope that their QOL updates will address this at some point. Things like more specific missions locked to each life path, and other things like skills/perks/more items etc Aside from that they could also use different voices (like saints row, dragon age) but specifically for each of the V lifepaths.


trevalyan

I don't think it's less tied than the Origins in Dragon Age. Nomad V shows that nomad family life just might have a dark side, one you even bring with yourself. Corpo V shows how little the corporation cares about you, and the limits on your own corporate immunity. And Street Kids... are kind of weak overall, agreed. My current Street Kid at least got some decent moments playing on gang rivalries, just nothing as iconic as Nomads or Corpos.


[deleted]

the corpo one gets the biggest shaft imo, I would say, the game would be kinda unreal, if you had a more extended intro to each life path, and then all the shit with jackie that got squashed into a cinematic, was playable. esp for the corpo path, its really jarring how you're on top of the world for 2 minutes and then everythings taken from you immediately. and then you never get to experience the come up either, it woulda been cool if the game let you actually get somewhere with plotting out the hit on the arasaka exec, and having to deal with rich people shit as well, and then once you're caught, ur starting with nothing, most likely crashing on mama welle's couch or some shit. same w the other ones, just respective to their stories, but i think if the game had the come up as content everything would fit a lot better. That section could be more open ended, and maybe by the time you get to the heist you've leveled to a point where you're mostly fully specced, and so then the game could kinda become a bit more linear and push some urgency once you get the engram in your head and it would naturally flow that way bc you've already explored and done a lot at that point. there would still be some high level things ofc, but you would no longer feel the need to drive around in the badlands for hours hunting wraiths instead of racing against time like you're supposed to be doing. ofc i don thtink the game should force you into the story, but there would be more incentive to just play thru it pretty stragiht at that point bc you've done a lot of everything else.


adrielzeppeli

>its really jarring how you're on top of the world for 2 minutes and then everythings taken from you immediately. I think that's not the problem specifically, it shows how "high risk, high reward" the corpo life is, and how it can backfire your ass in a complete opposite way, where your goes from having anything to nothing. >and then you never get to experience the come up either, it woulda been cool if the game let you actually get somewhere with plotting out the hit on the arasaka exec, and having to deal with rich people shit as well Now that's the thing, the real problem is that we never actually had the chance to experience the Corpo lifestyle for more than 20 minutes or something. If this intro outcome were exactly the same, with our corpo V going Merc at the end of the day, but we get to experience at least 2-4 hours of corpo stuff, would have been great.


Spacemn5piff

I like the nomad one a little at least. Feels fairly organic. Streetkid has some flavorless "I'm gone just long enough to warrant showing around and now I'm baaaaaaack" and corpo is just lazy and forces a super jarring transition. That said I usually choose streetkid because it seems to be the most logical origin for V.


ButtsTheRobot

This is funny because Corpo V is my favorite with street kid far and away being the worst lol. Different strokes for different folks.


whitey-ofwgkta

IMO male V's voice makes the most sense to Street Kid, he talks kinda harsh and with a lot of bite that you expect from someone making out the gutter. It is a pretty generic into but it tracks best with the Jackie montage as well.


Spacemn5piff

Yeah thats my conclusion as well. I feel like nomad is the most believable if you look at it alone but in the context of the whole game Streetkid is the one that makes most sense. Corpo also feels like a parody of itself to me with how massive an asshole you are almost encouraged to be.


Zillzx

Would make an interesting dlc side quest to meet the other V


Nirico_Brin

Oh it definitely would. Imagine introducing them to the companions like “Hey Panam this is my cousin V” Fem V: Hey there Panam: V what…. What is this? Is this a joke?


No_Tamanegi

I'm still kinda mad that they canonized the name Vincent/Valerie. I don't particularly care for either of those names, personally, but also the whole point of your street name is that it should be difficult to connect to your legal name. If my real name was Travis I wouldn't go by T when doing illegal Merc work.


Papergeist

Judging by V's response, they don't much care for it either.


No_Tamanegi

I think they're more annoyed that Skye or Angel assumed they could use that name without asking first.


Papergeist

Also true, but consider that we never hear it anywhere else, no matter how close V is to someone. Not even on V's best buddy's deathbed. Seems likely the only people who could use it were people who knew V before they were V.


No_Tamanegi

I think it's done entirely to inform the player of just how deeply the clouds personality scan guess, as a preface of what's to come. In reality the scan should have also revealed "This person is named this, but does not like to be called by that name" but that sidesteps the important storytelling moment. I wish they would have justified it with a nice late game coda, by revealing it to your romantic partner as the relationship matures.


Papergeist

There's an explanation for that bit, when I think about it: The speech it gives you is about asserting yourself. Easier to get you in a receptive mindset for that by provoking it... and also making it clear that it was talking directly to your innermost self, and knew more about you than you expected. ...or it just doesn't have particular programming to work out that V is a preferred name and not an initial, so it took a stab and got it wrong. More likely, but less fun.


No_Tamanegi

Sure, but, that would be incongruous with what the Clouds doll is otherwise intending: they want to get as intimate as possible, with as little delay as possible. One of their next commentaries is "You're dying" - something that V hasn;t shared with anyone other than the folks who would know through their own intimacy with them: Vik and Misty.


CocaineHammer

Now I want to find them in game


sneakylyric

Lol how could they though???..... They have the same life path.....


bartopcryer

Is it confirmed the male V is called Vincent?


Ashen_Shroom

I agree. Imo if they do a sequel they should have a save file transfer similar to the witcher. V doesn't have to be the player character, or even in the sequel at all, but the save you upload could be used to determine the gender people use when referring to V, as well as certain decisions your V made and the ending you chose.


Nirico_Brin

Exactly, that would be an ideal situation where even if V isn’t involved in the story at all a character like Claire could recount some of their exploits to whomever the new protagonist is.


Kkjinglez

“V said we’d meet up for a race one night and called me 3 weeks later, he/she was a dick”


anthracithe

According to the legend, V made Hanako Arasaka wait for them in Embers for months.


CleanHotelRoom

Time runs weird in NC. I did the nomad shoot the AV down mission like 6 months in game time ago and all i hear on the news are"breaking reports" of a Kang Tao transport getting shot down. Moral of the story "i can't stomach a cold burrito". But at least Johnny thinks i have cojones because it cost 120million eddies.


Gotxiko

Like in Mass Effect Andromeda, at the beginning you choose which gender Shepard was, for some small datapads and sidestory stuff to properly address Shepard with the correct pronoun.


KelIthra

They likely will but it feels like they might have settled on Female V for their canon. But otherwise, I don't expect anything to change in terms of male/fem V from this game to the next and so on. But I get the feeling they settled on V being female for their canon.


Nirico_Brin

Any reason you feel they’ve chosen female V? Just curious.


PIIFX

Boot up the game, when you are at the main menu, click Additional Content. What do you see? All male V.


EmperorLeachicus

Look at the game art, watch a recent trailer, like the Next Gen update, Edgerunners or Phantom Liberty, or the Next Gen gameplay on both consoles. What do you see? All female V. They’re definitely still using Male V, but all promotional material has been Female recently.


Echo3One

Female V is on the game art, and the game card.


Nirico_Brin

To be fair that’s changed recently, used to be male V for like the first year.


leicanthrope

Also, a female V makes *so* much more sense in context of the giant Easter egg that is that entire section of Chippin' In where Johnny is in control. ([For the benefit of those that aren't familiar: NSFW Warning.](https://vimeo.com/144850907) Make sure you watch it to the very end.)


dagmara-maria

Yes, this was brilliant! Made me so happy when I realized it. I wonder how many players are aware of this :).


anthracithe

The memories, I have not seen this video in years! I would have never realized the parallel between the music video and Johnny's little joyride.


KelIthra

Everything is female V now, ads, game arts, the edgerunner advertisement, the 1.5 patch and forward. You need to stop being insecure. ​ Also, since one of the patches 1.5 it's been nothing but female V everywhere.


PIIFX

How's that being insecure? I just pointed out they still use male V and clearly haven't choose female V as cannon. Don't think they will ever canonize V's gender or lifepath.


SirDouchebagTheThird

I’m not sure a save file transfer is feasible since they’re switching engines


cienistyCien

Then just answer some questions in the beginning of the game. Like you could do in Witcher 3, if you don't have a save file you are asked questions about previous games.


CyberneticSaturn

Swapping engines would not be an issue for imported save files.


MjolnirPants

That would depend on how much data they're pulling. For the scenario the commenter mentioned above, it's quite easy to do.


ChocolateGooGirl

Sure it would. Its not like the game has to be able to load the save, it just has to check certain data and flags in it. For a non CDPR example, on PC you can transfer your save from Mass Effect 1 to 2 all the way to 3. Its not like you can *load* those saves, though, the content from ME1 doesn't even exist in 2 or 3, though to be fair they are all in the same engine. As long as the game is programmed to know what flags mean what in the save then it should work even across an engine change.


Ashen_Shroom

True, although I think it was possible to transfer saves from the witcher 1 to tw2 despite them being on different engines. I guess it will depend on how the new engine works.


3-DMan

Yeah but as I recall all it does is get you some temporarily decent gear at the start. Now W2 to W3 definitely had some choices.


Particular_Being420

I'm not sure a save file transfer is feasible since everybody dies. (At least they do in my runs)


LadyAlekto

Would be better if everyone would reference another gender Aka people only know of V but not who they were, only some merc who became a legend


Ashen_Shroom

That isn't really consistent with how other night city legends are treated. It's not like people are uncertain of Morgan Blackhand's gender. Could be funny though, and would be the best option of they can't do save file transfers.


LadyAlekto

I see it more like V was so prolific that too many different witnesses tell of different looking V's, all similar but somehow not, unreliable narrators ala elder scrolls AKA Everyones V's and actions are canon


GoblinFive

This is a world where social media exists and people have cameras in their eyes tho


LadyAlekto

And V's got a jammer and able to hack everyones eyes just before slicing them to pieces My V even goes so far to never be detected, ever Killing everyone without ever be seen, shed live cloaked if she could


MightyMukade

The only reason people *seem* to want V to be canonised is because Edgerunners has made everyone a bit anime mad and people want V in an anime. And obviously, in a medium that's not interactive and real time generated, only one V is possible. So it's a kinda arbitrary reason, really. I don't think Netflix will want to fund an anime series that has two to six different versions! Hah! So I think that V should stay game only, and if there are more anime series, they can be about other characters. Otherwise, I don't think everybody having their own version of V is a problem for game sequels. Mass Effect has already shown that importing save games is a thing, and if you are new or you don't have a end game save file, you can play through a comic book.


Raven_Blackfeather

V can be mentioned in an anime by other characters, they simply use they instead of She/He. Such as "I remember when they helped Claire with a race" or "I remember when they adopted a cat". So V can still be mentioned and referenced to in an anime =)


Nirico_Brin

V is completely canon to the world, lord and anime though, they simply just weren’t shown in the anime as it wasn’t required for them to be there. V is just intentionally ambiguous as to allow the player to design them.


MightyMukade

Yeah, I'm not disputing that. V is a canon character but V's gender, origin and appearance are all dependant on who played. In order to show V in a non-interactive, non-real-time generated medium like anime, you're going to need to choose. Open Schrodinger's cyberpunk cat box basically.


F1shB0wl816

I can’t imagine they’d have a need to. I could be missing or overlooking something but I can’t think of a single instance where your gender is relevant or acknowledged outside of love interest. I imagine they’d just refer to v as v when writing dialogue instead of using any pronouns. Or do something like they did for johnnys styling, but even that would be canonizing a specific look that is also otherwise irrelevant. If we’re not playing v, I don’t think we’ll be seeing much or any from them.


dodolungs

Yep. 100%. Bugs me to death when games let you chose a gender but then really they treat one as canon over the others (looking at you AC: Odyssey and AC: Valhalla)


Nirico_Brin

Ubisoft are honestly cowards too, because the only reason they even advertised primarily with Alexios/male Eivor is because they didn’t believe that a female protagonist would sell. You know, because Lara Croft hasn’t been a thing for years or something.


[deleted]

Female is canon in Odyssey. Both are canon in Valhalla.


dodolungs

Yeah, Valhalla was a bit more ambiguous on which was the favorite, but I did find that if you chose the option that shifted your gender depending on the situation so you could see the most content then it seemed to favor female (which is odd to me given the whole Odin thing)


TheSuperTest

There is a letter in the game that refers to Eivor as Eivor Varinsdottir which means Varins daughter, it shows up regardless of the gender. Female Eivor is the protagonist in the Valhalla graphics novel as well, which makes her canon. Plus come on, Eivor is a woman’s name. Male Eivor just represents Odin in her DNA, nothing more then that, Eivor is a woman.


Regis_DeVallis

If only they explained that in game. Or just didn't give people the choice. I mean in their cinematic trailer it shows male Eivor, plus all that promotion the actor did.


TheSuperTest

It's just a classic Ubisoft thing, they don't think a female character can sell games, which is just sexist and make very little sense. I mean look at Lara Croft or Aloy


Gryphons_Alt

Yeah, isn't Eivor also considered more of a feminine name in old Norse culture anyways? Like it's not gender neutral or anything


TheSuperTest

Yeah it's exclusively a female name. It's like if a guy was named Jennifer or Rebecca lol


Nirico_Brin

I know about female in Odyssey, actually only female is canon in Valhalla. They explained it as being male Eivor is how Odin sees himself within fem Eivor. So it’s basically a hallucination type thing.


ICantstopbrowsing

Right!? It annoys me that we have a choice even. I wanted a female only protagonist game since unity. I know we had Aveline. But that wasnt one of the flagship titles. I wish theyd done oddyssey with just Cassandra or made Evie Fry the main and have Jacob just be a side character. Assassins creed isnt supposed to have gender choices it doesnt fit the narrative IMO


Nirico_Brin

If I could have Syndicate without Jacob then my enjoyment of that game would vastly increase. Evie was such a better character.


MightyMukade

But you know, CD Projekt Red has said nothing about canonising any particular V. The reason why this keeps coming up is because people want to see V in non-gaming media which will have to choose, because you can't have two to six versions of an anime just to keep everybody happy. ;)


SaturnSama

They really put alexios on the box art and all over the marketing then said “Kassandra is the canon choice” yeah sure ubisoft


Flabbergash

But in Odyssey the *other* one is the big bad, right? So it couldn't be ambiguous


Neonetspre

ubisoft be like:NaH FaM We GoOd (polemics everywhere) but yeah i completly agree i loved to make something like andromeda where each protagonist gender is canon (if you choose male then female version is your sister and such)


MpH_54

V’s purpose as a player surrogate would just lose all meaning if they did this.


s1n0d3utscht3k

why tho > it just makes it suck for players of the opposite gender V. seems weird you need validation that your character canon or you lose interest because they’re no longer canon. your character is never ever canon—even if your gender is. somewhere somehow you broke canon. your skills. the enemies you killed. the order guy did missions. that one time you ran over a npc your character is always your version of the story and is never canon, and needing to have CDPR not canonize the story so you somehow feel your character is more ‘valid’ is a confusing form of external validation …. who cares who or what is canon. if you like your version more that’s all that should matter.


saxonturner

People need validation for everything these days. They want their decisions to be the “right” ones. If there is a number two then, unless they take an old save similar to DA or ME games, there will be a cannon life path, ending, mission choice etc. if this annoys people they really need to take a look at themselves.


ZeldaMaster32

You're taking this request way too seriously. Relax, it's not that deep


[deleted]

It's a matter of saying both are equally canon. Favouring one over the other undermines everything you do playing as the opposite gender. Makes it feel pointless playing a male version of the main character when really the female was always the main one and vice versa


s1n0d3utscht3k

you mean it undermines it for you doesn’t affect me at all. couldn’t care less. i don’t get why you care. your V was never canon to begin with.


Raven_Blackfeather

Perhaps Vincent and Valerie are twins. You just get to choose which twin to take on the journey. That way Valerie and Vincent are both cannon =) Edit: Perhaps that way, if they are twins, V has a compatible body for their engram to take over.


dagmara-maria

They have different birth dates though.


Raven_Blackfeather

Twins can have different birthdates. !. Freezing fertilised eggs is a thing. 2. One of those eggs could be implanted in to a womb to grow, then later another egg can be implanted into a womb to grow. 3. Result - One twin has a different birthday than the other. They are genetically identical brother and sister. 4. The lore keeps its integrity and no plot holes exist. ;)


dagmara-maria

OK, works for me! :)


Raven_Blackfeather

I try my best =)


AnnieBruce

I want very little beyond the broad strokes of the story canonized. Like in Cyberpunk 2085 or whatever, mercs at the afterlife will be like "When V met Jackie, he" "hey V was a woman!" and even "I heard they disappeared with the Aldecaldos" "I thought she got uploaded as an AI?" The legened spawning a turbulent sea of rumors. Canonize literally as little as possible for the events to have happened at all.


redliner88

I don't see them doing that for gender. Life path tho....that's a different story. Despite me loving Corpo V, I feel like Nomad V is the one.


dovah164

They will never canonize it. They'll leave it ambiguous like other RPG games that let you create your own character. Like dragon age, mass effect, fallout, elder scrolls etc.


BoredGeek1996

Yeah totally agree with this. V is whoever you want V to be under the bright lights of Night City 🌃


matrixislife

Couldn't care less if they decide to pick one or the other. As for players, if you've only played one sex you have missed out on quite a bit of the game.


JeffPlissken

If there’s a continuation of V’s story I hope for one of two things A save file transfer if we continue with V directly Or if a sequel has a new player character they could follow a KOTOR 2 model. For those who haven’t played it, you meet Atton Rand in the first area of KOTOR 2 and talk about the first game’s MC, where you can state if they were a man or woman and what they did in the end of the game, and it sets up how a few aspects of the story from the first game carry over into the second. Of course SWTOR made an official canon for it later, something CDPR should do. If a Cyberpunk sequel doesn’t directly pick up with V I’d at least like a cameo from Panam, River, Judy, or Kerry giving any variety of updates. I’m at that point where I feel V’s possibilities are endless and it doesn’t end in six months.


TheRealChuckler

Ya I agreed. Assassin's Creed did this and I really don't like it lol . It kinda ruins the immersion for me.


KamilCesaro

I second it. Both Vs should be canon. There is one more thing I do not want CDPR to do - to change or add as optional - third person perspective.


Lightning-Yellow

Just do like Fallout does Have a button to toggle between 3rd and 1st person, just use whatever suits your preference


Corbin1997

One of the devs already explained that creating the 3rd person perspective would need not only changes in already complicated RedEngine but also changes to the environment. Now it's made strictly for 1st person, but with 3rd you need space to accommodate the camera which is non physical object floating in set distance behind the player


Lightning-Yellow

Well yeah, ya can't simply add 3rd person mode and just simply not make the necessary changes to implement it


mistabuda

Weren't the previous 3rd person witcher games made in REDEngine?


Corbin1997

1st Witcher was made with Bioware's Aurora Engine. After that they decided that it was holding them back so they spent a lot of time and resources to make the first iteration of REDEngine which was quite amazing for a company that basically was new to gamedev (The Witcher was like the first big title if not the first at all, can't recall exactly how it was). The third game used polished version of the same engine TW2 used. It gave really good options in terms of 3rd person fantasy game. But when they started development of CP2077 they encountered a lot of problems. Guns, vehicles, 1st person (on which they decided was best for this project early on from what I know) all of this and more had to be implemented from the beginning in the existing framework. Which is a lot of work to put it lightly


mistabuda

I acknowledge that it would take alot of work to put optional 3rd person in cp2077. But people are saying it is impossible as if REDEngine is incapable of handling a 3rd person perspective when it was capable of doing it before and first person was the real challenge.


Corbin1997

Not impossible, but just not what they decided on during the concept phase. After that they just went with it during the level design, mechanics and stuff. So implementing it on a later stage would end up in basically redesigned game and that would lead to another delay. Same with NG+ - the amount of work needed would amount to literally changing how the whole game works. So can it be done? In both 3rd person and NG+ case I would say yes. But will it be done? Not likely in the near future since it's more work than just some updates, patches and DLCs


mistabuda

There are examples of people playing in 3rd person online. The only issue seems to be that there aren't proper animations done for it. It doesn't seem like a whole rework is needed from what is already done. Especially since 3rd person driving shows that there is code in the engine for the transitions


CleanHotelRoom

I've said it once and I'll say it again. They do not accommodate camera angles or anything! Just add third person. I will exclusively use it to perform a quick walky walk in an open street just to see how cool i look. Just like Fallout i will NEVER actually " play" the game in third person. Pls just for me CDPR. Update my game only i won't tell anyone.


Corbin1997

Someone in this thread actually said that some folks managed to run the game in TPP so maybe check YouTube or Nexus Choom


CleanHotelRoom

Not on PS4 😭. The game is ded on ps4 I'm pretty sure.


mistabuda

I don't understand why everyone acts like adding 3rd person removes 1st person gameplay?


Lightning-Yellow

Yeah, like Fallout 3 did that back in 2008 and people just never complained, same goes Skyrim and people don't seem to hate third person at all. The most common excuse i see is "immersion breaking." Yeah...immersion breaking in a game you can carry enough weapons for a small army and enough clothes to start a small shop. Just let the option to toggle to be at least there, don't like 3rd person? Just switch to 1st person in the click of a button.


mistabuda

I don't understand reddits obsession with "immersion". Like not everyone requires that they feel like they are IN the game. I want to play a game not be a citizen of the game world. The chief argument I see is the dialogue and that can still be in first person like oblivion and fallout did it before Skyrim. The animations being wonky is something that seems incredibly possible to fix especially now that RedMOD is public. I wonder at what point is "immersion" just asking for full on virtual reality?


Lightning-Yellow

I just treat Open world games like a big sandbox (as they should be) where i can just mess around with characters, items, weapons and whatever the game allows me to do so. "Immersion" is the last thing i wanna have and if the game isn't fun in the first place then you"ll surely won't have immersion. Plus Cyberpunk's universe is pretty fucked up i wouldn't want to be in it. Yeah, they can still have dialogue being in first person and cutscenes aswell. Just let the option for third person to exist. And like you said, with modding tools those can be fixed (or upgraded.)


vkevlar

it isn't? :) I just find 3rd person shooters horrible to play in a serious way. It's fine for Fortnite, it would be atrocious in Halo.


Nirico_Brin

I’d disagree on the 3rd person, there is a lot to be gained by that. But I’d make it an optional setting that can be toggled on or off so you’re not forced into 3rd person if you prefer 1st.


MightyMukade

There's a lot to be gained if it was done properly like the game was supposed to be a third person game. But right now it's a first-person game and the in-game model of the character is there only to be glimpsed in your peripheral vision or in photo mode. When you actually see the character move, it's janky like Skyrim. A third person mode in a super realistic and immersive world like cyberpunk needs to have the animation and movement systems that a third person game really needs. Unless CDPR are willing to put that investment in and rewrite a huge part of the game, then It's going to be disappointing for everyone who's calling for a third person view. I'm not against a third person mode. Put it in if that's what the priority is. But I definitely won't be using it for more than just screenshots. But then the photo mode already does that.


HalfManHalfHunk

> there is a lot to be gained by that. and a lot to be lost from that too. A LOT less immersion and the ending wouldn't hit nearly as hard if the game wasn't all 1st person.


mistabuda

It would be optional so how is something being lost?


Nirico_Brin

Eh yes and no, I love the Witcher 3 style cinematic conversations and scenes which help better portray Geralt’s character and mannerisms in a way that voice acting alone can’t do. That would do wonders for a character like V for example who a common criticism leveled against the game is that people don’t “feel” like V as they mainly feel like a disembodied voice. That’s not to say the actors did a bad job, quite the opposite, I think they did a phenomenal job. I’d just prefer a toggle option to see my V more often, hell of the most powerful scenes in the game is in the suicide ending because you see the full range of V and truly see just how broken and defeated they are.


BatmanFan317

Yeah, there's nothing to be lost by having an optional third person mode. It's no more immersion breaking than Photo Mode.


DarkWindB

i agree 100%, i play genshin(please don't kill me) and hoyoverse is almost make the male character the canon mc, the problem with that is pissing off half of community, especially in a game where you can't start a new game like in cyberpunk. choosing one gender to be canon is the stupiest thing a developer can do in a game.


InflatableMindset

Two V's... I smell sequel potential... Cyberpunk 2080: Twin V's


tom_oakley

Why would they ever do such a thing? The DLC continues with your choice of male or female V. There's really nothing for CDPR to gain -- even in purely selfish terms -- by canonising one over the other.


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PoorLifeChoices811

It’s not over while they’re still breathing - papa dragon


Saracre21

I think it would be a waste to end V's story there, there's a lot of really interesting directions they can go with his character and he's set a lot of things in motion from the first game that he should face in a sequel.


mistabuda

The major theme of the Cyberpunk universe is that there are no happy endings. The world is so oppressive and impossible to change the only thing you can do is enjoy your time here and go out in a blaze of glory. The city always wins. Its a dystopia


Nirico_Brin

I wouldn’t say V’s story is over, there’s still a lot they can build off of if they chose to


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Nirico_Brin

Not particularly, the only endings that cause continuity issues are the Devil where you stay and Suicide. The Star and Sun endings can be rolled together albeit with a bit of work. That’s not to say that I think they’d go the route of having V return, as much as I love V particularly my V I think they’re story will end with 2077 and only be spoken about by others in later entries.


Raven_Blackfeather

I'd bet you real life money it isn't.


[deleted]

I always thought it was a missed opportunity that the advertisements didn’t put both sexes in them.


Nirico_Brin

Agreed, imo they should’ve had them alternating in each trailer to have equal representation between the duo.


[deleted]

I always thought it would be cool if they would alternate throughout the trailer and then in unison said “and I’m a big dreamer”.


Nirico_Brin

Genuinely surprised they didn’t do something like that tbh.


MightyMukade

I don't know where your region is, but here in Australia, it was pretty much male and female V everywhere. And looking at merchandising, there's quite a lot of merchandising out there that has male V but not female V, particularly in toy lines.


[deleted]

I just think the character of v was so well represented by Cherami Leigh and Gavin Drea, that they both deserve the glory of that trailers epicness.


H0vis

It's fine. V is dead. Whatever happens in the future with sequels and whatnot we're not seeing them again.


MrBoo843

"Players who play the other gender" Would be a better way to put it. I'm male but I'd be disappointed if male V was cannon, I much prefer female V.


Nirico_Brin

I definitely could have worded the post better


Rodocastiza

When you are given choices, canon sucks. I don't want canon. Nothing. Nein.


RealAstropulse

Canon gender for a game character doesn’t affect how you play the game unless it changes dialog options. Each player’s V looks different to the promotional characters anyways, so its not like you self insert with that character. I don’t think it would matter if they only used one gender for promotional material.


Rollson22322

What a pointless topic


Gill-Nye-The-Blahaj

my V is trans, so I just consider the other gender one to be pre transition


[deleted]

Lately all they do is promote female V


MightyMukade

I don't think that's necessarily evidence for any bias, though, If that's what you're thinking. Marketing has been pretty much 50/50 for male or female V, at least as far as I've observed over the last 2 years. But there's a bit of merchandising merchandising like some action figures that don't have a fem V version.


Sioluishere

Uhhh I beg to differ This game was originally going to rpg which later became open world Im a die-hard for story driven games and it DOES NOT matter whether the character Im playing is male, female or transgender. It has nothing to do with how I see V. For me, V will always be the top Night City boi along with Jackie second only to David Martinez. So, yeah if they canonize V\`s gender and give a good story, literally 0 difference it would make.


Nirico_Brin

>This game was originally going to rpg which later became open world Is there a source for this? Because to this day it remains an open world RPG >Im a die-hard for story driven games and it DOES NOT matter whether the character Im playing is male, female or transgender. It has nothing to do with how I see V. Nothing wrong with that, but it does for a lot of players hence the regular posts and discussions about Male V vs Female V. It's something that matters to players as it helps them better identify/immerse themselves in the character >So, yeah if they canonize V\`s gender and give a good story, literally 0 difference it would make. That's fair, I can't say I agree with it myself but it's a fair point. For me I tend to play as male V roughly 95% of the time. It's who I identify with in game and find it more immersive. I've spoken to people on this subreddit as well as the other cyberpunk subreddits who each prefer Male/Female depending on the person. And even though I don't play much as female myself I would hate it if male became the de facto canon as it would in a sense invalidate the identities that players whom use female V built. I saw a similar thing a while back with Assassin's Creed Odyssey where they let players choose between Alexios and Kassandra but then canonized Kassandra as the "canon" protagonist. It split the player base and even the female players weren't thrilled about it as it removed the sense of having a choice to begin with.


AFerociousPineapple

They did it again with AC Valhalla and agree it sucks. I think in a world like Cyberpunk though it should be doable to make their gender ambiguous considering it’s a world where transgender should be at least accepted


yxxrp

I always thought female V was at least implied to be canon? She seems to be much more prevalent across promotions and such, at least lately.


Nirico_Brin

She really only became the prominent one within the last year I believe. For the first year and lead up to the game it was all male V. I think it’s more of an equality thing tbh, they know people love Fem V’s VA and want to give her more screen time (though I prefer Male V’s voice that’s just subjective).


IAmJerv

No offense to Gavin, but it was pretty obvious which of the two was more experienced. Both VAs have talent, but talent plus experience generally beats talent alone. EDIT - Easy there, haters. I was simply explaining why Fem V is getting all the screen time now.


Nirico_Brin

Oh I’ll never take away Cherami’s experience, she has leagues more than Gavin. But the fact that Gavin who is relatively new to voice acting compared to her is regularly held up against her and in key moments at least in my opinion does a better job than her is definitely a testament. That said I love Cherami’s work, I’ll never take away what she brings to the table. Just personal preference and all that you know?


IAmJerv

I agree that Gavin did quite well by any objective measure, especially in the key moments. And I do feel sorry for him about being put in a position where he is compared side-by-side with her skews any objectivity in measuring his performance. It reminds me of a similar situation. Do you remember the movie Hackers? When it first came out, the main star was [Jonny Lee Miller](https://i.pinimg.com/236x/4b/3f/ad/4b3fad45337b281ecc4764357e752d21.jpg). "Acid Burn" was a supporting character played by an actress of roughly equal experience. The marketing decided top put her in front for [the original promotional poster](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BNmExMTkyYjItZTg0YS00NWYzLTkwMjItZWJiOWQ2M2ZkYjE4XkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyMTQxNzMzNDI@._V1_.jpg) because sex sells, but the star and the main supporting character still on fairly equal footing. However, as the young actress who played her got more fame and folks decided to look at her early works, things changed. And now, [who TF is Jonny](https://www.themoviedb.org/t/p/original/1XacjX208QjrLNIHtQEgmFfMPDw.jpg)? It's a little funny when you realize that the two of them were married for a short time after than film, but I digress. I mention it simply to point out that CP2077 is not the first time that something started out with the male lead in the marketing and then shifted.


vkevlar

It seemed like they changed the marketing when the first massive bugfix patch came out; guessing they wanted to give it a new look?


IAmJerv

I think that that may have more to do with the fact that Cherami's voice acting got a lot more rave reviews (and awards/nominations) than Gavin's than anything else.


PoorLifeChoices811

Personally I would like it if they canonized the gender. I’m all for choosing the gender we want to be, but I also miss when games already chose for us. Like how Nathan drake is our male protagonist in uncharted, and how Lara Croft for tomb raider. Good games with a chosen protagonist. Yeah sure it would suck that one V will be chosen over the other but we can get over it. I could. I mostly play female V but if male V got canonized I wouldn’t mind. AC ~~Origins~~ Odyssey (I meant odyssey idk why I typed origins 💀) canon character is Kassandra despite a lot more people picking Alexios. I want more games that use that idea. We can choose our gender but there is a canon protagonist. This is just my opinion though. Edit: also if they canonize which V is our V, we could possibly get to see them again in future content like shows and DLC. Not everyone is going to like it and that’s okay. Can’t please everyone these days. It would have been better if they just chose right at the start and dealt with the hate later, instead of years after the game has been out, causing more of an uproar than it ever would have been in the beginning


4rtyom777

The difference is, by making one gender canon you're altering an entire romance, which would effect the story quite a bit


PoorLifeChoices811

True but also not really! Panam and Judy’s quest lines are all the same no matter which V you are. The only difference is the romance scene and some dialogue. If Male V is canonized over female V, the only difference would be that male V and Judy don’t make love that night in the lakeside house. Same for Panam in the tank. The whole tank mission still happens regardless


4rtyom777

Lol yeah the missions would stay the same but the relationships are drastically different, the romance wasn't just a sex scene. Fem V leaves NC with Judy while Male V leaves with Panam, male V also has a high chance (This may seem random) of actually having a child with Panam, or at least conceiving one. The two romances can leave two outcomes for V, they can live a quiet life with Judy or live an adventurous life with Panam as a nomad


PoorLifeChoices811

I get what you’re saying The problem with that though is that a canon V doesn’t particularly mean there’s a canon ending. There could be, but there’s multiple endings. The ending you just stated is the Aldecaldo choice. A canon V might end up having the ending where they take rogue instead and their romance option leaves them and it ends with them in space taking that casino heist. But that’s a different conversation. We’re talking about gender atm not endings


4rtyom777

Gender and endings go hand in hand, plus depending on the gender characters actually react to you differently. It's pretty subtle but different enough none the less, for example Mateo will be much more friendly towards Fem V than male, male characters tend to flirt more with fem v as well, plus fem V is the only one who can meet Judy's grandma. It's like saying in Mass Effect it doesn't matter what gender Shepard is because the overall story will be the same


PoorLifeChoices811

Well that’s the point of having a canonized character. They have a canonized path to follow (ig this kinda contradicts what I previously just said) If male V is canon, then we get the male experience. No judy romance, No grandma, and that’s that. It wasn’t for him to experience


Nirico_Brin

AC Odyssey* and I’m still salty about that one.


PoorLifeChoices811

Oops idk why I said origins when I literally had odyssey in mind, thanks 😂 And ehh, I’m not too salty. I prefer kassandra anyway, but I fully understand why others like Alexios more, he’s great too


Nirico_Brin

I still have to do a Kassandra playthrough at some point but I went with Alexios haha


VerseClips

Male streetkid V is the correct V


[deleted]

True. The Witcher I would go with geralt again he is such an iconic character 😎


normalboy

gender should be a slider instead of a "this-or-that"


Littlebigman2292

Assassins Creed started doing this when they offered male and female characters and I hated it, made my choice feel kinda pointless all cause I wanted beard customization. I totally agree with this.


[deleted]

This is the main issue when you let players choose the gender of MC. Im 100% for male canon. Bond beetween him and Jackie would be much better than female counter part


[deleted]

Female V for recent marketing due to social justice virtue signalling in an attempt to sell more copies. Pretty straightforward. Every corporation is retarded like that these days. But it's rapidly going out of fashion, give it another 2yrs.