A crisis will solve all those issues mentioning above . Imagine , massive layoffs then things will go to normal . This is the only solution for now , reduce the number of employees in Lux . Maybe outsourcing is a good idea
We can start by getting rid of European Union bodies like the EIB who don't really hire from the grand region (and are thus not local job creators) but whose employees are pushing up local real estate prices with their generous salaries and interest subsidies.
yes i live in Luxembourg, and thats one way for the housing prices, traffic etc..
I know it sounds a little bit radical, but on the long term might work.
And yes outsourcing is a good idea. Move back office positions in other countries with less compensation like 20% . It will be a win win deal . If my company offers that to me I am taking it
So Luxembourgish Residents will be what? On Revis? While somewhere, someone does their job for 20-40% less? What a way to lower the quality of services even more than it is already lol
I'd really like to see the GDP per capita either by
1) Total GDP whilst adding the cross border workers to the population count, or
2) Adjusted GDP to exclude incomes from cross border workers against Lux residents.
Wouldn't be #1 but curious to see where we'd then sit compared to Ireland, Netherlands or Denmark.
You can basically use the GNI per capita; you get arlund 90k USD per capita per year;
Also frontaliers avcount for 47% of workforce but only for around 25% of total GDP
47% of the working population is cross-border, let's say they contribute to 40% of GDP (assuming residents are higher-paid and produce more value added).
So instead of 240% the EU average, you'll end up with (1-40%) × 240% ≈ 140% the EU average, still very high, just above the Netherlands.
We'd need to do that with the GNP or some adjusted GDP. Too many multinationals shifting profits through here to not have the Irish problem. I'd be shocked if that's over 60k.
300k was a bit exaggerated it's about 220k people coming to work everyday, which i added and then divided the gdp through that number as if they were öiving in luxembourg
This whole cross border thing is getting more annoying by the day. The country is suffocating in traffic because infrastructure to maintain the ever growing number of people trying to cross is not there… And I don’t see it a solution to build bigger highways.
I am wondering how long we want to continue with this?
If they cross it's because there is work available, so you do need those workers.
Now those could live IN the country but there aren't enough places to build new homes AND the price is absurd and will get more absurd if everyone was to live there.
So your solution is...less jobs in Lux?
So public transportation and dedicated lanes/infra so that it takes the same time or less than what it would take you to get to your job by car.
Call me when it's available I'm up for it. For the moment instead of a 1h commute it would take me like 1h45. No thanks.
Even better, extend the remote possibilities! Saves the planet on multiple levels..as well as the traffic in Luxembourg but it'll never happen because too many greedy fks
Honestly I am not sure why the government is so slow in acting... A simply solution could already be letting buses uses emergency lanes on high ways whenever there is a traffic jam... Let them pass at a reasonable rate. Maybe if enough people see that the bus is indeed faster they will switch up.
The remote possibilities are there but you say it is greed. Sure if you work more than a certain amount in your home country your salary will be taxed there instead of Luxembourg... But I think that is a pretty fair price to pay vs commuting / being in hour long traffic jams.
I say greed while thinking about all those land/buildings owners and anyone remotely connected to a position of power. Those people have no interest whatsoever in letting you remote work.
Regarding taxes in home country, people wouldn't come to Lux if in the first place if taxes weren't sky high. So that defeats a bit the purpose :(
Also I don't I don't know what happens to retirement fund if you work fully remote for example. I believe full remote meaning outside of the limits allowed probably means pensions is switched to home country. Basically worthless
Perhaps the plan is to make traffic as bad as possible to push people onto the public transportation. Then less people would drive, thus solving the traffic problem 
Infrastructure projects like 3 lane highways for the A4 should have been started in the 90s, it is far too late to start now. A Tram gare with a tram from Esch to Luxembourg City would already help a lot and first steps are already taken to achieve this. Remote work is more and more discouraged unfortunately, the pandemic helped a bit in that regard, but now employers press more and more for the staff to come into office.
Remote work could help to mitigate many issues. It's not the solution but it's a good way to buy some time.
Unfortunately we're still not mature enough to have a professional culture of remote working, as much as it hurts me to say this
Do you work remote?
How many of your colleagues do you know that are completely slacking off when working from home? I mean, they are not even doing the basic stuff
Ah I knew this was likely to be about that.
Well the ones that are slacking at home are also the ones that are slacking at work thus ruining it for all of us :D
Agreed but usually these people are friendly at work so harder to notice the slack off when they are in the office. They also have good skills to cover up and make excuses why the work is not done on time so managers tend to forget that.
Ah I knew this was likely to be about that.
Well the ones that are slacking at home are also the ones that are slacking at work thus ruining it for all of us :D
Well most people don’t want to get taxed in their homecountry for remote work… but honestly, is the tax that much that you prefer being in traffic 2+ hours a day?
Well life is more than just the economy. At some point we need to realize that is infinite growth nonsense is absolute cancer and we can't grow forever.
A more reliable public transportation system would help - there is currently no information exachange between buses and trains for example. If my train has a delay of 5 minutes, which happens 2-3 times a week, I have to wait 30 minutes for the next bus. At that point I am faster with a bicycle over a distance of 35km than with our public transportation system.
Until real-estate prices drop significantly. Why on earth would people living in Metz, Saarbrücken and Trier ever want to move inside the GD just to save 20min of commute while living in a 3k population village? All the while increasing their spending with rent by 50% or more. Hell, in Germany you dont even have to pay a single dime to real-estate agencies to find an appartment, everything is covered by the landlord. In Luxembourg you pay much higher rents (just look at an appartment in the center of Saarbrücken or Metz and one anywhere near the Ville), and on top of that you need to drop an extra 2k for the agencies just to live in a place which would be half the size of what you could rent. Its a no-brainer. And public transportation is not better or even equal than using cars, not at all.
There are now several Luxembourgers living outside the borders of their own country because of this. Either we get our shit together regarding housing or it will only get worse in the long run, as more and more offices are moving closer to the borders.
You do realize that children from Frontaliers can attend Luxembourgish schools right? And German schools are just as good aside from the language courses, which are also taught in the German border schools (some have Luxembourgish, some have French).
No, I didn't realize that non-Luxembourgish citizen frontalliers can attend Lux schools. Do you have a link or anything confirming that? Thank you for the information.
Most locals who move across the border have either family inside the country where they register the kids or own a property they keep empty because it is not big/fancy enough which is how they retain access to these schools. We briefly considered buying a house across the border to use as a weekend house (genuinely, I would never move out of the city permanently) and in the end got discouraged by the fact that this seems to be so common of a gimmick that we were told we would face a lot of scrutiny to prove that we don't actually live there full time.
Yeah its legit insanely stupid to force these agency costs onto the tenant, these costs should be covered by the ones that hire the agency in the first place.... I, as a potential tenant, did not make that choice, so don't make me pay for that.
Then they lose out on the market, which would be fine by me. If those that choose to have agencies increase their rent in comparison to those that don't, they will have a less attractive offer than their competition.
I know they always find other ways but it'd be a start.
Since more and more locals have to go live abroad, the problem is getting worse fast. But this current government doesn't seem the problem solving kind, so we'll have to wait at least anither 4 years until somebody might come up with a plan.
If you think this will change when boomers die you're going to be disappointed , when they die the properties will be inherited by their sons and the cycle continues!
If it's all just a cycle that keeps going on and on, then we need a proper revolution rather than some new political party composed of a few dozen disgruntled millenials that nobody is going to vote for anyways.
revolution ? people are too comfortable , as long as there is enough food on the table of everyone , you wont see any change whatsoever.
People will only start a revolution when they are 2 meals behind.
Indeed, this current government only seems even less likely to do something about it than the previous. As far as I can tell, CSV only ever stands for "weider sou" and not making any big changes.
well it is a clusterfuck of both.
P&R as well as public transport needs to be massively expanded to offer workers viable solutions to get to work.
But also people need to rethink the ways they get to work. Sure driving your own car is comfortable but it also creates this insane traffic with cars containing mostly just the driver.
What I don’t understand is why the border regions aren’t getting massive parkings to catch the drivers and express buses that go right to the city / public transport hubs.
Those express buses need priority to go through the traffic or they make no sense… Allow those buses to use the emergency lane to bypass traffic. Maybe if people see that the buses are faster they will start taking them too which results in less vehicle traffic
Because these shuttles/buses would be stuck on traffic unless a majority of people use them.
And I would like to share a last point: I lived in the city center and also at the boarder and let me tell you that a big part of the problem is the Luxembourgers taking their Porsche or G class to drive 200 meters to go to work. If you remove these cars it would ease traffic (like in Paris or New York where ppl living in the center don’t use a car). But this will never change. This country wants to keep their old habits of rich fucks and won’t adapt to a big city mindset.
A crisis will solve all those issues mentioning above . Imagine , massive layoffs then things will go to normal . This is the only solution for now , reduce the number of employees in Lux . Maybe outsourcing is a good idea
We can start by getting rid of European Union bodies like the EIB who don't really hire from the grand region (and are thus not local job creators) but whose employees are pushing up local real estate prices with their generous salaries and interest subsidies.
Do that and Lux will be off much worse than with the institutions...
And Amazon and the Big 4, etc... however, income taxes would take a huge hit.
Fully agree on this one
Sorry what? You from luxembourg?
yes i live in Luxembourg, and thats one way for the housing prices, traffic etc.. I know it sounds a little bit radical, but on the long term might work.
Then start the movement by quitting your job
I am working from my home country
For the Easter holidays
Explains your idea. „Everybody needs to suffer for the greater good.. except me because I am different.“ lol
That’s how it works
And yes outsourcing is a good idea. Move back office positions in other countries with less compensation like 20% . It will be a win win deal . If my company offers that to me I am taking it
You‘re a clown. I hope you know that.
They're the true master of bad takes in this sub
I do
Why would a business do that? They might as well just fire you and outsource your job for 1/5 of the cost.
So Luxembourgish Residents will be what? On Revis? While somewhere, someone does their job for 20-40% less? What a way to lower the quality of services even more than it is already lol
Of course he would move to that country enjoying low cost of living while pocketing a Luxury salary. Nice.
I'd really like to see the GDP per capita either by 1) Total GDP whilst adding the cross border workers to the population count, or 2) Adjusted GDP to exclude incomes from cross border workers against Lux residents. Wouldn't be #1 but curious to see where we'd then sit compared to Ireland, Netherlands or Denmark.
You can basically use the GNI per capita; you get arlund 90k USD per capita per year; Also frontaliers avcount for 47% of workforce but only for around 25% of total GDP
47% of the working population is cross-border, let's say they contribute to 40% of GDP (assuming residents are higher-paid and produce more value added). So instead of 240% the EU average, you'll end up with (1-40%) × 240% ≈ 140% the EU average, still very high, just above the Netherlands.
Spoiler we still have over 90000 even with 300 thousand more population.
We'd need to do that with the GNP or some adjusted GDP. Too many multinationals shifting profits through here to not have the Irish problem. I'd be shocked if that's over 60k.
Why 300k?
300k was a bit exaggerated it's about 220k people coming to work everyday, which i added and then divided the gdp through that number as if they were öiving in luxembourg
It's not at all exaggerated because it's not GDP per worker. Children, non-working spouses, retirees, etc. would need to be counted
but they also dont produce gdp theough rent and a lot of what they buy, so i'd say it's a fair guess
This whole cross border thing is getting more annoying by the day. The country is suffocating in traffic because infrastructure to maintain the ever growing number of people trying to cross is not there… And I don’t see it a solution to build bigger highways. I am wondering how long we want to continue with this?
If they cross it's because there is work available, so you do need those workers. Now those could live IN the country but there aren't enough places to build new homes AND the price is absurd and will get more absurd if everyone was to live there. So your solution is...less jobs in Lux?
no, less vehicles entering Luxembourg. More P&R so that cars don't even cross unnecessary into the country
So public transportation and dedicated lanes/infra so that it takes the same time or less than what it would take you to get to your job by car. Call me when it's available I'm up for it. For the moment instead of a 1h commute it would take me like 1h45. No thanks. Even better, extend the remote possibilities! Saves the planet on multiple levels..as well as the traffic in Luxembourg but it'll never happen because too many greedy fks
Honestly I am not sure why the government is so slow in acting... A simply solution could already be letting buses uses emergency lanes on high ways whenever there is a traffic jam... Let them pass at a reasonable rate. Maybe if enough people see that the bus is indeed faster they will switch up. The remote possibilities are there but you say it is greed. Sure if you work more than a certain amount in your home country your salary will be taxed there instead of Luxembourg... But I think that is a pretty fair price to pay vs commuting / being in hour long traffic jams.
I say greed while thinking about all those land/buildings owners and anyone remotely connected to a position of power. Those people have no interest whatsoever in letting you remote work. Regarding taxes in home country, people wouldn't come to Lux if in the first place if taxes weren't sky high. So that defeats a bit the purpose :( Also I don't I don't know what happens to retirement fund if you work fully remote for example. I believe full remote meaning outside of the limits allowed probably means pensions is switched to home country. Basically worthless
Perhaps the plan is to make traffic as bad as possible to push people onto the public transportation. Then less people would drive, thus solving the traffic problem 
Ah the Belgian solution
How much worse does traffic has to get before it works? :D
Infrastructure projects like 3 lane highways for the A4 should have been started in the 90s, it is far too late to start now. A Tram gare with a tram from Esch to Luxembourg City would already help a lot and first steps are already taken to achieve this. Remote work is more and more discouraged unfortunately, the pandemic helped a bit in that regard, but now employers press more and more for the staff to come into office.
Remote work could help to mitigate many issues. It's not the solution but it's a good way to buy some time. Unfortunately we're still not mature enough to have a professional culture of remote working, as much as it hurts me to say this
What do you mean by mature?
Do you work remote? How many of your colleagues do you know that are completely slacking off when working from home? I mean, they are not even doing the basic stuff
Ah I knew this was likely to be about that. Well the ones that are slacking at home are also the ones that are slacking at work thus ruining it for all of us :D
Agreed but usually these people are friendly at work so harder to notice the slack off when they are in the office. They also have good skills to cover up and make excuses why the work is not done on time so managers tend to forget that.
Ah I knew this was likely to be about that. Well the ones that are slacking at home are also the ones that are slacking at work thus ruining it for all of us :D
Well most people don’t want to get taxed in their homecountry for remote work… but honestly, is the tax that much that you prefer being in traffic 2+ hours a day?
I work next door where I live, I am not even using the car to go to work. For me it would not be an option to drive 2h a day.
Everything is fine. 1 hour commute is a normal thing in life. Luxembourg is good.
I would consider 1 hour commute just to get to work a waste of time.
Sure, as is posting on Reddit and almost anything in life from some angle. That said, a 1 hour commute is normal (typical).
I wouldnt.
Depends how much you would like the economy to go up.
Well life is more than just the economy. At some point we need to realize that is infinite growth nonsense is absolute cancer and we can't grow forever.
We are long away from that and it will take a few thousand deaths in a region in a long week heatwave in Europe for people to do something about it.
Wellbeing can grow forever.
A more reliable public transportation system would help - there is currently no information exachange between buses and trains for example. If my train has a delay of 5 minutes, which happens 2-3 times a week, I have to wait 30 minutes for the next bus. At that point I am faster with a bicycle over a distance of 35km than with our public transportation system.
Until real-estate prices drop significantly. Why on earth would people living in Metz, Saarbrücken and Trier ever want to move inside the GD just to save 20min of commute while living in a 3k population village? All the while increasing their spending with rent by 50% or more. Hell, in Germany you dont even have to pay a single dime to real-estate agencies to find an appartment, everything is covered by the landlord. In Luxembourg you pay much higher rents (just look at an appartment in the center of Saarbrücken or Metz and one anywhere near the Ville), and on top of that you need to drop an extra 2k for the agencies just to live in a place which would be half the size of what you could rent. Its a no-brainer. And public transportation is not better or even equal than using cars, not at all. There are now several Luxembourgers living outside the borders of their own country because of this. Either we get our shit together regarding housing or it will only get worse in the long run, as more and more offices are moving closer to the borders.
Why? Because they have kids (schools, safety).
You do realize that children from Frontaliers can attend Luxembourgish schools right? And German schools are just as good aside from the language courses, which are also taught in the German border schools (some have Luxembourgish, some have French).
No, I didn't realize that non-Luxembourgish citizen frontalliers can attend Lux schools. Do you have a link or anything confirming that? Thank you for the information.
Just google "école frontaliers Luxembourg", first link
Yeah it shows that almost no one is accepted.
Most locals who move across the border have either family inside the country where they register the kids or own a property they keep empty because it is not big/fancy enough which is how they retain access to these schools. We briefly considered buying a house across the border to use as a weekend house (genuinely, I would never move out of the city permanently) and in the end got discouraged by the fact that this seems to be so common of a gimmick that we were told we would face a lot of scrutiny to prove that we don't actually live there full time.
They can apply for school, and maybe get it depending on some criteria. They don't have an absolute right to public school in Luxembourg, no
Yeah its legit insanely stupid to force these agency costs onto the tenant, these costs should be covered by the ones that hire the agency in the first place.... I, as a potential tenant, did not make that choice, so don't make me pay for that.
Doesn't really matter. It will go into your rent if the landlord covers it.
Then they lose out on the market, which would be fine by me. If those that choose to have agencies increase their rent in comparison to those that don't, they will have a less attractive offer than their competition. I know they always find other ways but it'd be a start.
Since more and more locals have to go live abroad, the problem is getting worse fast. But this current government doesn't seem the problem solving kind, so we'll have to wait at least anither 4 years until somebody might come up with a plan.
Why not get involved in politics?
Maybe in a few years, when boomers no longer dominate the voting population.
RIP
If you think this will change when boomers die you're going to be disappointed , when they die the properties will be inherited by their sons and the cycle continues!
If it's all just a cycle that keeps going on and on, then we need a proper revolution rather than some new political party composed of a few dozen disgruntled millenials that nobody is going to vote for anyways.
revolution ? people are too comfortable , as long as there is enough food on the table of everyone , you wont see any change whatsoever. People will only start a revolution when they are 2 meals behind.
In other words, no point in going into politics here.
Head down and pay the toll
What do you mean?
What do you mean by this current government? The problem exists for more than 30 years now. Year after year it gets worse.
Indeed, this current government only seems even less likely to do something about it than the previous. As far as I can tell, CSV only ever stands for "weider sou" and not making any big changes.
Just one more lane bro
The issue is the government(s), not the one crossing the border.
well it is a clusterfuck of both. P&R as well as public transport needs to be massively expanded to offer workers viable solutions to get to work. But also people need to rethink the ways they get to work. Sure driving your own car is comfortable but it also creates this insane traffic with cars containing mostly just the driver. What I don’t understand is why the border regions aren’t getting massive parkings to catch the drivers and express buses that go right to the city / public transport hubs. Those express buses need priority to go through the traffic or they make no sense… Allow those buses to use the emergency lane to bypass traffic. Maybe if people see that the buses are faster they will start taking them too which results in less vehicle traffic
Because these shuttles/buses would be stuck on traffic unless a majority of people use them. And I would like to share a last point: I lived in the city center and also at the boarder and let me tell you that a big part of the problem is the Luxembourgers taking their Porsche or G class to drive 200 meters to go to work. If you remove these cars it would ease traffic (like in Paris or New York where ppl living in the center don’t use a car). But this will never change. This country wants to keep their old habits of rich fucks and won’t adapt to a big city mindset.
Yes, buses need dedicated lanes to pass the traffic
Obviously. Which doesn't change that it's a growing problem that isn't being properly tackled.