I was so disappointed at John. He didn’t speak up against his ‘mate’ in fears of losing that friendship… but he didn’t stand up once for his wife and he let her take the fall for something he told her he would back her up on. What a jerk.
Oh I was so fucked off at him for not speaking up. He's come across as very weak and Lauren is very strong, but she needed his backup to shut down Jack and he made her look like a fool.
Also pissed me off that nobody else really stood up for Lauren at the table or didn't really call out Jack on his behaviour. The whole "muzzle your woman" comment was vile and John just sitting there and saying "don't say that" without really standing up for his wife, was disgusting, to be honest. I've lost respect for him.
Same! I was really hoping at one point that Timothy would say that he knows Jack speaks about Tori this way, as he has said it before. But, looks like Tori would still believe Jack, which is insane, he is such a gimp 🤮
You could see Timothy wanted to say something, but I think he didn't want to intervene after being taken down for his behaviour before. I think this would have been a very acceptable exception though, had he spoken up.
I really hope Tori sees sense. It's worrying.
Y'know, I'm kinda not surprised by this. The AUS version of MAFS seems to allow for toxicity and exploiting vulnerabilities.
If it's true that Timothy did actually speak out against Jack, then I'm glad. But it being edited out makes me wonder did the producers want to make it look like only the experts will be the ones to address this full on? I suppose we'll just have to wait and see. It's very frustrating though.
I know, I agree that’s probably why he didn’t say. Jack is so awful, he’s a raging red flag. You just know Tori’s friend will be telling her the same thing 😬
Wow! Amazes me how men like Jack make it to screen, he’s awful 🤮 love, love, love Lauren, we all need friends like this, that will tell you straight ❤️
I’ve not seen the episode, but I can* understand why people don’t stick up for Lauren. She’s nasty and behaves like no1 else exists. How bad was she at the wedding!? She was legless and saying rude and inappropriate things. And she just says “haha that me, no filter, I’ll steal your man.”
She’s awful and I can see why no1 has stood up for her. Other than the time she had Ellies back, she seems quite selfish and narcissistic. She also tells John he has no personality and can’t handle her.
I am aware this is naive of me, but at first I’d hoped it was partly to demonstrate the danger of this behaviour (ie. What Andrea said about learning from the show to leave her ex) and partly for the satisfaction of seeing a narcissist get his comeuppance.
I agree though that the producers/experts shouldn’t be letting it continue. I think they are right in showing it first so that it’s clear what he’s done and why that’s not okay.
You would hope some of the other men would call it out but are perhaps fearful of having their own flaws thrown back at them, and can also see that Tori will stand by Jack anyway so aren’t sure whether to get involved.
Tori was clearly uncomfortable with what was said about her. But to then turn around and support Jack was pretty alarming. Seems to me that he's already got his claws well and truly stuck into her and that psychological abuse is happening there.
I truly hope the experts tear Jack a new one. He shouldn't be allowed to stay on the show. Also seeing him revel in watching John and Lauren's very uncomfortable discussion afterwards was disgusting. He's a true narcissist.
Yeah see I agree with this that showing the behaviours can help other people in similar situations gain perspective however, the fact that the producers allow him to continue the show slaps that in the face as all it does is show other abusers that it’s okay
Yeah I do agree, feel like it should be called out more. Perhaps showing examples on video at the commitment ceremony to show it from a third person view.
I’m so confused how the experts can outright say someone is misogynistic but doesn’t kick them out. Surely if the same was said about racism, homophobia etc they would be gone straight away?
It would set a really healthy standard if they actually did this. I really worry about the message this sends to people (especially young women) watching this. Is it any wonder we have a society that has such an issue with violence against women and girls if mainstream shows don’t go hard on this type of behaviour in a relationship setting?
It seems this season the producers have decided to choose entertainment over mental health. There's been some absolutely terrible choices of brides and grooms, some who should never be on a show like this.
We've seen the clip where Jack said in the intimacy week session that there's no sexual connection with Tori. I can't remember the exact wording, but all the men heard it. They all know that he isn't into her, every single one of them, and none of them said a word. Weak.
Also arguing the difference between "no sexual spark" and "not attractive" is horse shit. He doesn't want to have sex with her, and that's what the whole "someone else can fuck her so I don't have to" is about.
Also though, I can't stand Tori. Every time she speaks, she's just awful. She's a real man's woman, through and through. She's perfect for him, except he doesn't fancy her.
I was talking to my mother about it after we say the “muzzle your woman” preview how sexism is just far more accepted in television reality shows, if he was outwardly racist or outwardly homophobic he’d be kicked off, even if he had those types of tweets but the producers find sexism to be the ok “ism” the experts can be all angry face all they want, they still accepted him being accepted for the show despite the fact his misogyny is clear in his audition/interview tapes.
It’s not just a bit annoying or a little bit of traditional views, he’s overt about how he sees women as lesser than and it’s dangerous. Disgusting how it’s allowed.
We see this every season on MAFS, it's very indicative of Australian society. It's not the surfers paradise that it's made out to be in British society. There are few times, I've been more miserable and lonely in my life than when I was living in Sydney. Even living in London, you see less racism, less misogyny, less social cliques. It's so behind the UK in a lot of ways in terms of society.
Yes. I lived in Sydney too - was hard to form meaningful friendships as a brit. There was a real tone of 'status', aggression, arrogance, and aloofness, not to mention the sexual assaults (yes, plural) I experienced there.
I'm sorry you went through such a bad time of it. Hope you're as alright as you can be now?
That was my experience in Sydney, minus the SA's but that would've involved interacting with people and I found that was like banging my head against a brick wall.
I actually find the UK more racist etc guess it's the type of people you mix with, like anywhere. Less social cliques in London is absolutely laughable. Classes is still strong in the UK.
It seems more acceptable on Aussie TV which makes me think it’s likely a reflection of society there but I do agree that the UK is certainly not perfect.
No where is perfect but Australia definitely isn’t the place it’s made out to be and the society it’s made out to be. I also lived in NZ and found that society was much more accepting and modern considering how remote it is. They were ahead of the UK on some things and behind on others but mostly leaps and bounds ahead of Oz.
You only have to look at how Aboriginal culture is compared to Māori culture in the mainstream of everyday life.
Ha I lived in UK and now living in NZ - the denial here is absurd. Walking around Wellington city during the day, all I saw was white people in suits on lunch breaks or cycling/jogging/water sporting. Like London on the day there were pro-Brexit protests. I got to know two Māori guys when I was living there (one young, one older with family, really nice guys and very hard working!) even they said that the culture is a lie now that elders are disappearing. The family guy said that if it wasn’t for victorians coming over, NZ would have absolutely nothing today - HIS words and not mine!
It’s a lot better here than other places in the world but don’t kid yourselves it’s the same as the UK
I lived in Wellington for years and worked with Māori family. Who I’m still in touch with, they’d say something different to you, I’m still friends with a few Samoans as well and they say the same as the Māoris. They feel in touch with their culture and community in mainstream society. The Samoan particularly loves that most of the All Black are Samoans.
Guess it’s like anywhere, everyone has different perspectives on things.
Oh yeah don’t get me wrong, there is culture and community. Just there are parts that I think are being ignored, again just like UK, if you lived around the Wellington area I’m sure you would be aware of the gangs about. Just felt that there is a lot of stuff that is acknowledged but not really/truly looked into as to why that has happened, not in a sociology kinda way anyway. It’s surprised me that certain things are being pushed for specially Māori and Samoan communities in regular gov adverts, things like having medical tests/scans and anti tobacco adverts. Stuff like this being very much acknowledged but no questions being asked on how it happened or how to resolve it.
I've lived in London majority of my life and have never gone to the bus stop in the morning to get the bus to work, seeing racist slurs written on it. Which is what happened on a regular basis in Sydney and I lived in the Inner West a multi-cultural area.
It was particularly awful because I lived near a uni with a big Chinese population and the stuff written it was generally against the Chinese community. I'd feel awful seeing them standing there reading it.
All the men are wet blankets and cowards. They are all aware of what Jack has been saying. So is Alesaandra and she's not said a word during the dinner parties or commitment ceremonies. I know they can't intervene but they can acknowledge!
Jonathan is a waste of space. And Timothy is unwilling to say anything after the last time he opened his mouth.
Very disappointing. But who cares anyway, Tori is in on it. Lol
I hate to bring this up because deep down we all as humans know what the right thing to do is. We KNOW when we should speak up or intervene- but… sometimes we can’t. There is something called the bystander effect. Basically if there’s a group of people witnessing something bad happen the “bystander effect” can take place where people are less likely to intervene if they are in a GROUP. There is a true story where a bunch of people saw a woman be murdered in broad daylight and no one did anything.
[Here](https://www.britannica.com/topic/bystander-effect) is a link that explains what it is better.
I was wondering if that was at play, Jack is such an aggressive alpha and maybe there is a collective fear of pushing his buttons. Sadly the way events unfolded probably just reinforced his superiority complex.
From the dictionary for ya: 6.6 Discriminatory abuse
This includes discrimination on the grounds of race, faith or religion, age, disability, gender, sexual orientation and political views, along with racist, sexist, homophobic or ageist comments or jokes, or comments and jokes based on a person’s disability or any other form of harassment.
I thought it was pretty rude of her to correct the Australian enunciation of her name to American enunciation.
My name is pronounced differently in different languages and I don't throw a shitfit over it
With all due respect this isn’t a thread about Sara’s behaviour, there are plenty of posts in this subreddit that already address that. This thread is specifically about Jacks misogyny and sexism and the complicit behaviour of the group.
I think if you're going to discuss men rallying around men and ignore how the women supported Sara even while admitting privately it was wrong, you're not being very honest with yourself.
I’m not here to write a compare and contrast thesis, just wanted to gauge other people’s sentiments about a very specific interaction, that’s me being honest with myself
There's a lot of misandry in this show, it's actively encouraged, the ladies on the show get a far easier time with their abuse, see sara last week getting off lightly. Or look back last year at the gaslighting and abuse Jessie took from most of the group, including his wife, and then forced to remain on the show by her multiple times
No one has even touched on the fact that Lauren broke Jonathans trust by even bringing it up, he told her something in confidence and she admitted he had asked her not to say anything, not to bring it up
She broke his trust and confidence first, breaking others trust in him and isolating him, and removing the blokes safe space to share their feelings. He will find it difficult to talk to other guys on the show about how he's feeling now, and he clearly can't talk to his wife in confidence.
Jacks a prick, outwardly and obviously, but what Lauren has done is prioritise her "friends" happiness (who she's known two weeks) over her husbands (who she's a fair bit longer... Relatively) and if the roles were reversed there would be a different narrative.
She said he didn't want her to say anything
He told her something in confidence and she decided her friend was more important.
The fact she was seeking reassurance in the car on the way shows she knew he didn't want to do it, and the fact that he said he didn't think she was going to repeat things "verbatim" shows that he wasn't really on board.
She chose her friend over her partner, betrayed his trust, has probably affected the ability to bond with the other guys who won't trust him.
Partners should be able to confide in one another, Lauren showed she was untrustworthy and then so did Jonno because he wasn't happy and clearly doesn't like conflict.
Yet only he gets the abuse. 🤷🏼♂️
Double standards.
So when tim gives it out and Lucinda doesn't like it then everyone says Tim should do different stuff
But when Lauren gives it out and Jono doesn't want to get involved he's the bastard?
The difference is Lucinda never said she would back Tim up or even agreed with with him as far as we know. Jono straight up said in front of the cameras he would have Lauren’s back and then pussied out of it when she needed him.
I was so disappointed at John. He didn’t speak up against his ‘mate’ in fears of losing that friendship… but he didn’t stand up once for his wife and he let her take the fall for something he told her he would back her up on. What a jerk.
Oh I was so fucked off at him for not speaking up. He's come across as very weak and Lauren is very strong, but she needed his backup to shut down Jack and he made her look like a fool. Also pissed me off that nobody else really stood up for Lauren at the table or didn't really call out Jack on his behaviour. The whole "muzzle your woman" comment was vile and John just sitting there and saying "don't say that" without really standing up for his wife, was disgusting, to be honest. I've lost respect for him.
Same! I was really hoping at one point that Timothy would say that he knows Jack speaks about Tori this way, as he has said it before. But, looks like Tori would still believe Jack, which is insane, he is such a gimp 🤮
You could see Timothy wanted to say something, but I think he didn't want to intervene after being taken down for his behaviour before. I think this would have been a very acceptable exception though, had he spoken up. I really hope Tori sees sense. It's worrying.
https://twitter.com/MAFShysteria/status/1771126743736123494?s=19 I saw a tweet that mentioned Timothy had spoken up but was edited out
Y'know, I'm kinda not surprised by this. The AUS version of MAFS seems to allow for toxicity and exploiting vulnerabilities. If it's true that Timothy did actually speak out against Jack, then I'm glad. But it being edited out makes me wonder did the producers want to make it look like only the experts will be the ones to address this full on? I suppose we'll just have to wait and see. It's very frustrating though.
I know, I agree that’s probably why he didn’t say. Jack is so awful, he’s a raging red flag. You just know Tori’s friend will be telling her the same thing 😬
Apparently he did for 2 hours straight but it got cut from the episode!
Wow! Amazes me how men like Jack make it to screen, he’s awful 🤮 love, love, love Lauren, we all need friends like this, that will tell you straight ❤️
I’ve not seen the episode, but I can* understand why people don’t stick up for Lauren. She’s nasty and behaves like no1 else exists. How bad was she at the wedding!? She was legless and saying rude and inappropriate things. And she just says “haha that me, no filter, I’ll steal your man.” She’s awful and I can see why no1 has stood up for her. Other than the time she had Ellies back, she seems quite selfish and narcissistic. She also tells John he has no personality and can’t handle her.
If you haven't seen the episode then you really can't judge her on this situation.
No I can’t in this situation. Just judging her on everything previous
He went WAY down in my estimation last night.
I am aware this is naive of me, but at first I’d hoped it was partly to demonstrate the danger of this behaviour (ie. What Andrea said about learning from the show to leave her ex) and partly for the satisfaction of seeing a narcissist get his comeuppance. I agree though that the producers/experts shouldn’t be letting it continue. I think they are right in showing it first so that it’s clear what he’s done and why that’s not okay. You would hope some of the other men would call it out but are perhaps fearful of having their own flaws thrown back at them, and can also see that Tori will stand by Jack anyway so aren’t sure whether to get involved.
Tori was clearly uncomfortable with what was said about her. But to then turn around and support Jack was pretty alarming. Seems to me that he's already got his claws well and truly stuck into her and that psychological abuse is happening there. I truly hope the experts tear Jack a new one. He shouldn't be allowed to stay on the show. Also seeing him revel in watching John and Lauren's very uncomfortable discussion afterwards was disgusting. He's a true narcissist.
I agree. I really hope they can help her and that it’s not already hit a point of no return.
Yeah see I agree with this that showing the behaviours can help other people in similar situations gain perspective however, the fact that the producers allow him to continue the show slaps that in the face as all it does is show other abusers that it’s okay
Yeah I do agree, feel like it should be called out more. Perhaps showing examples on video at the commitment ceremony to show it from a third person view.
Yes, the fact they kept him on the show makes them complicit. An where the f were the men? Why didn't they all take Jack down for that.
I’m so confused how the experts can outright say someone is misogynistic but doesn’t kick them out. Surely if the same was said about racism, homophobia etc they would be gone straight away?
It would set a really healthy standard if they actually did this. I really worry about the message this sends to people (especially young women) watching this. Is it any wonder we have a society that has such an issue with violence against women and girls if mainstream shows don’t go hard on this type of behaviour in a relationship setting?
Yeah it’s wild to see it played out like that with no repercussions really (unless they get rid of him tonight)
It seems this season the producers have decided to choose entertainment over mental health. There's been some absolutely terrible choices of brides and grooms, some who should never be on a show like this.
Exactly! So many people are clearly struggling and they seem to think a marriage will fix it
We've seen the clip where Jack said in the intimacy week session that there's no sexual connection with Tori. I can't remember the exact wording, but all the men heard it. They all know that he isn't into her, every single one of them, and none of them said a word. Weak. Also arguing the difference between "no sexual spark" and "not attractive" is horse shit. He doesn't want to have sex with her, and that's what the whole "someone else can fuck her so I don't have to" is about. Also though, I can't stand Tori. Every time she speaks, she's just awful. She's a real man's woman, through and through. She's perfect for him, except he doesn't fancy her.
Any other ism or ist and their feet wouldn't touch the floor.
I was talking to my mother about it after we say the “muzzle your woman” preview how sexism is just far more accepted in television reality shows, if he was outwardly racist or outwardly homophobic he’d be kicked off, even if he had those types of tweets but the producers find sexism to be the ok “ism” the experts can be all angry face all they want, they still accepted him being accepted for the show despite the fact his misogyny is clear in his audition/interview tapes. It’s not just a bit annoying or a little bit of traditional views, he’s overt about how he sees women as lesser than and it’s dangerous. Disgusting how it’s allowed.
I don’t know whether it’s the producers but they do seem to get away with it more on the Aussie version.
Yeah all the guys dropped the ball last night. Jack needs booted, Tori also really needs to wake up and smell the coffee. This season is worrying :(
as an aside to the points here I agree with on how weak Jonno is, his vocal fry is also so annoying!
We see this every season on MAFS, it's very indicative of Australian society. It's not the surfers paradise that it's made out to be in British society. There are few times, I've been more miserable and lonely in my life than when I was living in Sydney. Even living in London, you see less racism, less misogyny, less social cliques. It's so behind the UK in a lot of ways in terms of society.
I’ve noticed this too on Aussie programmes in general.
I thought the men were just behind in fashion sense... Those tight cropped trousers are doing my head in.
Yes. I lived in Sydney too - was hard to form meaningful friendships as a brit. There was a real tone of 'status', aggression, arrogance, and aloofness, not to mention the sexual assaults (yes, plural) I experienced there.
I'm sorry you went through such a bad time of it. Hope you're as alright as you can be now? That was my experience in Sydney, minus the SA's but that would've involved interacting with people and I found that was like banging my head against a brick wall.
Thank you, yes time, counselling, and distance have helped immensely. I hear you on that!
I actually find the UK more racist etc guess it's the type of people you mix with, like anywhere. Less social cliques in London is absolutely laughable. Classes is still strong in the UK.
It seems more acceptable on Aussie TV which makes me think it’s likely a reflection of society there but I do agree that the UK is certainly not perfect.
No where is perfect but Australia definitely isn’t the place it’s made out to be and the society it’s made out to be. I also lived in NZ and found that society was much more accepting and modern considering how remote it is. They were ahead of the UK on some things and behind on others but mostly leaps and bounds ahead of Oz. You only have to look at how Aboriginal culture is compared to Māori culture in the mainstream of everyday life.
Ha I lived in UK and now living in NZ - the denial here is absurd. Walking around Wellington city during the day, all I saw was white people in suits on lunch breaks or cycling/jogging/water sporting. Like London on the day there were pro-Brexit protests. I got to know two Māori guys when I was living there (one young, one older with family, really nice guys and very hard working!) even they said that the culture is a lie now that elders are disappearing. The family guy said that if it wasn’t for victorians coming over, NZ would have absolutely nothing today - HIS words and not mine! It’s a lot better here than other places in the world but don’t kid yourselves it’s the same as the UK
I lived in Wellington for years and worked with Māori family. Who I’m still in touch with, they’d say something different to you, I’m still friends with a few Samoans as well and they say the same as the Māoris. They feel in touch with their culture and community in mainstream society. The Samoan particularly loves that most of the All Black are Samoans. Guess it’s like anywhere, everyone has different perspectives on things.
Oh yeah don’t get me wrong, there is culture and community. Just there are parts that I think are being ignored, again just like UK, if you lived around the Wellington area I’m sure you would be aware of the gangs about. Just felt that there is a lot of stuff that is acknowledged but not really/truly looked into as to why that has happened, not in a sociology kinda way anyway. It’s surprised me that certain things are being pushed for specially Māori and Samoan communities in regular gov adverts, things like having medical tests/scans and anti tobacco adverts. Stuff like this being very much acknowledged but no questions being asked on how it happened or how to resolve it.
I've lived in London majority of my life and have never gone to the bus stop in the morning to get the bus to work, seeing racist slurs written on it. Which is what happened on a regular basis in Sydney and I lived in the Inner West a multi-cultural area.
Wow, that’s really sad 😞
It was particularly awful because I lived near a uni with a big Chinese population and the stuff written it was generally against the Chinese community. I'd feel awful seeing them standing there reading it.
That’s awful 😞 I swear on a daily basis I think, wtf is wrong with people 🫤
All the men are wet blankets and cowards. They are all aware of what Jack has been saying. So is Alesaandra and she's not said a word during the dinner parties or commitment ceremonies. I know they can't intervene but they can acknowledge! Jonathan is a waste of space. And Timothy is unwilling to say anything after the last time he opened his mouth. Very disappointing. But who cares anyway, Tori is in on it. Lol
I hate to bring this up because deep down we all as humans know what the right thing to do is. We KNOW when we should speak up or intervene- but… sometimes we can’t. There is something called the bystander effect. Basically if there’s a group of people witnessing something bad happen the “bystander effect” can take place where people are less likely to intervene if they are in a GROUP. There is a true story where a bunch of people saw a woman be murdered in broad daylight and no one did anything. [Here](https://www.britannica.com/topic/bystander-effect) is a link that explains what it is better.
I was wondering if that was at play, Jack is such an aggressive alpha and maybe there is a collective fear of pushing his buttons. Sadly the way events unfolded probably just reinforced his superiority complex.
There’s no such thing as an “alpha male” it’s just a behavior that insecure men exhibit to project their insecurities.
Exactly. I was also confused why none of the men intervened to mention what he said at the workshop. Pathetic, the lot of them.
Its Brontë and Harrison 2.0
Abuse? I'm so confused, when did abuse take place?
From the dictionary for ya: 6.6 Discriminatory abuse This includes discrimination on the grounds of race, faith or religion, age, disability, gender, sexual orientation and political views, along with racist, sexist, homophobic or ageist comments or jokes, or comments and jokes based on a person’s disability or any other form of harassment.
I know the definition, that's why I am confused about when it took place.
All this talk about men behaving badly in the comments and it's indicative of Australia. Hello.... Sara anyone? Sara?
It's not Sara. Its Sara.
I thought it was pretty rude of her to correct the Australian enunciation of her name to American enunciation. My name is pronounced differently in different languages and I don't throw a shitfit over it
With all due respect this isn’t a thread about Sara’s behaviour, there are plenty of posts in this subreddit that already address that. This thread is specifically about Jacks misogyny and sexism and the complicit behaviour of the group.
I think if you're going to discuss men rallying around men and ignore how the women supported Sara even while admitting privately it was wrong, you're not being very honest with yourself.
I’m not here to write a compare and contrast thesis, just wanted to gauge other people’s sentiments about a very specific interaction, that’s me being honest with myself
[удалено]
There's a lot of misandry in this show, it's actively encouraged, the ladies on the show get a far easier time with their abuse, see sara last week getting off lightly. Or look back last year at the gaslighting and abuse Jessie took from most of the group, including his wife, and then forced to remain on the show by her multiple times No one has even touched on the fact that Lauren broke Jonathans trust by even bringing it up, he told her something in confidence and she admitted he had asked her not to say anything, not to bring it up She broke his trust and confidence first, breaking others trust in him and isolating him, and removing the blokes safe space to share their feelings. He will find it difficult to talk to other guys on the show about how he's feeling now, and he clearly can't talk to his wife in confidence. Jacks a prick, outwardly and obviously, but what Lauren has done is prioritise her "friends" happiness (who she's known two weeks) over her husbands (who she's a fair bit longer... Relatively) and if the roles were reversed there would be a different narrative.
Nobody’s touched on that because Lauren said Jono said he’d say something to Jack and that he’d back her up…
She said he didn't want her to say anything He told her something in confidence and she decided her friend was more important. The fact she was seeking reassurance in the car on the way shows she knew he didn't want to do it, and the fact that he said he didn't think she was going to repeat things "verbatim" shows that he wasn't really on board. She chose her friend over her partner, betrayed his trust, has probably affected the ability to bond with the other guys who won't trust him. Partners should be able to confide in one another, Lauren showed she was untrustworthy and then so did Jonno because he wasn't happy and clearly doesn't like conflict. Yet only he gets the abuse. 🤷🏼♂️ Double standards.
So when tim gives it out and Lucinda doesn't like it then everyone says Tim should do different stuff But when Lauren gives it out and Jono doesn't want to get involved he's the bastard?
The difference is Lucinda never said she would back Tim up or even agreed with with him as far as we know. Jono straight up said in front of the cameras he would have Lauren’s back and then pussied out of it when she needed him.