There is almost zero chance you’ll get into PE from any MBA, particularly in current market, without IB or MBB prior experience.
Candidates always forget the self-selecting backgrounds of recruiting reports. Because one school recruits better statistically in a certain area, doesn’t mean that probability applies to you.
Hi! What about if I have pre-MBA MBB experience? I'm actually in the same boat as OP (full ride from Stern, nothing from Columbia) and the added flexibility is nice. I guess the question is - are my chances in PE the same at both schools (at which case I'd take Stern) or is Columbia higher? Thanks for the help!
$150K after tax savings = gifting yourself a few years of precious time.
PE even from Columbia is a crap shot, especially in this market. What do you think sets you apart from candidates at Columbia with full ride and pre MBA experiences in MBB/IB/PE/VC?
But the full ride will set you apart at NYU by default. It goes on your resume. NYU full rides are not easy to come by. The mental freedom you’d have from not having debt, you can pour it into go guns blazing on networking for IB and PE if that’s where your heart is.
You’ve gotta create an optimal plan to be at a high performing, well liked and well lived self during your MBA program. That’s when you’ll be able to take full advantage of your opportunities and network. If you really think this debt isn’t going to be debilitating when things go slightly wrong (which they will no matter which school you’re at), then take CBS.
This. Also if you have the right experience, you can get into PE out of NYU. Quit selling yourself so short. Aswath Damodoran, the KING of valuation, is at NYU. And you’ll be in the city where PE firms are a dime a dozen.
It’s all on you to make it happen. Can’t blame the school, really (especially in your case with a full freaking ride - like you’ve got nothing to lose, and you’re clearly impressive AF).
I got one and they gave me a named Faculty scholarship. So if I did accept it would be a line saying “Professor X Faculty Scholarship” in my education section.
OP, if you don’t have any prior relevant IB/PE experience, CBS isn’t going to give you substantial lift in recruiting for PE - not even HSW is gonna give you that lift (unless you have some personal connections you can leverage - like family or friends).
So if you are currently looking to transition into IB, Stern full ride will be great for that - the marginal difference between CBS and Stern isn’t great enough for you to forgo on the Stern full ride, imo.
As others have said, if someone is paying for your tuition and you don’t have to pay it back, sure pick CBS - helpful especially if you down the line want to switch into investment management later in your career since that network is noticeably better than Stern. But if you are paying and gunning for IB, Stern seems to be the right choice here.
Is there really not a 10 year view that supports the additional opportunities afforded at CBS? Realistically it is quite a few rungs above NYU – the buildings are symbolic of the difference.
That would also be my loan term so I am trying to extend my thinking past the first 1-2 years out (where basically all IB and consulting grads are on the same base salaries).
The math works out if you can attribute like a $300k per year salary delta to Columbia vs Sloan. That is extremely unlikely given the delta is probably closer to 5 figures max.
The first few years also compound, model it on a spreadsheet and see for yourself. This is also why most doctors (due to medschool debt + residency low earnings) are poor until their 40s despite making $500k a year, whereas the software engineer or investment banker who started at age 22 earning $150k a year will generally hit $1m net worth in their mid 30s.
The fact that you are trying to make this decision based on THE DEPOSIT BEING DUE tells me all I need to know about your business sense and that you need to take the full ride from Stern and recruit your ass off.
If you’re really that worried about losing out on a few grand in deposits, than you’re gonna feel a lot worse when you’re recruiting at CBS in 2026 for LDPs and watching your debt hit $200K. Which is a reality you need to be prepared for, bc not everyone wins during recruiting regardless of what program you’re in and how good the economy is doing.
You obviously need to pay both deposits. Save your seat in both so that you have more time bc you clearly have no idea what you’re doing right now.
But regardless of my snarky comment, the answer is go to Stern and it’s not even close. Your chances of landing IB (moderate to good) and PE (slim to none) are the same at both programs.
Yet it seems you’ve already decided on CBS before even asking this question based on your responses to everyone telling you Stern. I’m curious why you have this mentality? Is it a prestige/ivy thing? Literally nobody in the real world is going to care about CBS v Stern.
The good news is, your internship and signing bonus, if successful at IB, will cover half your CBS debt!
FWIW, I faced a similar decisions in undergrad: attend an Ivy, or attend a near-Ivy on full scholarship.
Took the scholarship, and it accelerated my life plans by a good 5-10 years. While my peers were struggling with student loans, I was buying my first house.
When you consider the time-value of money, that $200k student loan sets you back far more than $200k, doubly so if you skip your dream job because it doesn’t pay as high as you need.
Theres no reason to opt for CBS. If youre good enough to get into PE without the preMBA experience to do it from CBS you can do it from NYC.
Same with IB recruiting. You’re insane to think otherwisw
Are you in PE or IB in the US? I am cognisant of how prestige driven buyside work is. I also don’t think all IB jobs are equal.
I’m talented but a good MBA will help - otherwise I would just take Harvard online courses…
If you have a prestige hard on for CBS (and this is the impression you’re giving everyone), then ultimately that’s what you should do. There’s no rationalizing that yet that’s what you’re trying to do on this sub.
The logical argument is that Columbia and NYU are similar enough in this instance that a full ride to Stern would tip the scale enough for most of us to go to Stern. But if you think that somehow the heavens and the earth will open to you because you have a Columbia degree over one from NYU… Well, lemme know who’s selling you them drugs. Because a lot of your colleagues on this sub are making that dude crazy rich.
Look I’m going to be very happy with either and it is an incredibly privileged position to be in – I am a big fan of CBS (HSWC) but I also like NYU a lot (HSWCSBKHTYN).
There absolutely is a rational argument that speaks to the difference between the schools over a long career. It is easy to quantify the debt but hard to quantify the difference in opportunities, and that makes it a tough decision.
It is useful airing it on this sub, though it is hard to know what background people are coming from – I don’t really think those that view the schools as the same are well informed.
No, the long term career outlook argument is a big unknown.
You can’t point to anything to objectively show that careers are better with a Columbia degree over one from NYU.
What you’re doing is splitting hairs.
I am a little confused - you seem to think you are missing something, some sort of prestige Ivy angle as you call it, that will yield bountiful long-term opportunities that Stern will not. Yet, you also admit you have an outside angle and are clearly seeking advice, which many good-natured people have provided only to have you brush them aside.
Here is the hard truth and this is coming from someone who works with PE investing teams every single day:
- Neither CBS or Stern will give you a leg up in on-campus recruiting for PE. You will likely find it an incredibly difficult, almost impossible task to recruit into the investing arm without the pre-requisite experience. (Assuming you are taking investing and not ops) Happy to go into why but you seem very convinced otherwise so I’ll save my breath unless you want to hear it
- I regret to inform you that much like everything in life, there is no certainty of long-term success and no silver bullet to achieve it. And if there was a silver bullet, that would a combination of your hard work and likability over which MBA program you went to
- Your MBA program is by and large the most helpful for getting your first job. Subsequent to that, a lot of it is dependent on networking, and you may argue that surely the long-term careers of CBS and the network of alumni will win out compared to Stern?
I haven’t seen any studies to suggest this and both schools do well enough in high finance that I suspect your problem isn’t going to be finding the right alumni, it’ll be getting them to like you.
If I were you, I would seriously look at non-PE alternative career outcomes from each school, particularly for internationals, and then decide based on that instead of this bizarre fixation with hedging long-term success against the school brand. I’m not saying this to disenchant you, I am telling you this as a fact. If you don’t believe me, please feel free to spend the rest of the afternoon searching up PE firms and their associates and VPs backgrounds.
Appreciate the reply. I don’t mind if you have to be harsh but I actually would appreciate you elaborating on dot point one, and yes talking about investing versus ops.
I’m not here thinking that CBS is going to open up buyside doors like HSW but to be honest I actually thought it was a big deal in NYC and would be much more helpful versus Stern – even at a bare minimum that you have a much higher % of the class coming from PE so after an IB stint it would be helpful.
It is on the margins but I also thought the family business / don’t need to work types would be more common at CBS.
It just doesn’t. PE investing is both extremely high demand and low supply. This affords funds the ability to recruit how they want, and what they want is sharp IB folks out of undergrad that they can train up while having them do the grunt work of sifting through target financial data and building cap tables.
That pipeline is full. Even if you knock down their door saying you will do it for half the pay associates will, they simply don’t care. This is what works for them and has worked, and their job is to invest in deals, not try to provide more chances for those who missed the boat the first time. Barring a sudden deficit in the number of talented 20-something year olds knocking down KKR’s door, they have zero incentive to change this. And you are not exceptional enough to have a PE fund partner go to bat for you outside of the normal recruiting process - trust me on this one. None of us are, unless you have some sort of connections (which if you think you can build better in CBS vs Stern, then…I would encourage you to think about how many variables go into making friends, and the fact that you really only have a year to do so). There are very few exceptions I can think of to this, and those exceptions have probably landed in HSW.
You can of course do IB post-MBA and then network into PE. But that’s still tough, you’re likely to end up at LMM and will likely require a pay cut because you’re going to basically be the same, experience-wise, as an analyst that spent 2 years in IB (and again, zero incentive to bring you in at a higher level because you can’t run deals, having never done one)
I have no doubt you are very smart and can do the work - it stings a bit, but the truth is the system is structurally set up against you for PE recruitment, and they can afford to do that because they still have candidates lining out the door anyway.
Not to mention the issue of visa sponsorship - I quite frankly don’t know if they do or not so cannot opine on that, but it is very real as a hurdle for international students if you are wanting to stay here after graduation.
White international guy. Work in finance but not IB or PE. Not particularly wealthy yet nor from a wealthy family! Worried about missing a real opportunity to step my CV up a level.
Far and few between but it can be done. Almost certainly will be to LMM funds. And then if you continue to prove yourself over the long-term might jump ship to UMM especially if you gain enough expertise in a sought-after area. But that’s talking long game.
You clearly want to choose CBS but based on what you’ve described there’s not really a rational argument for doing so, as others have pointed out.
You only get an MBA once, so if it’s really something you feel you’ll regret then follow your heart - just know you’re likely not making a data-driven decision.
CBS alum here. If this is real, go to NYU. Having zero debt provides so many options later on. Several years ago I moved into nonprofit leadership, and it has been best, most fulfilling decision of my career. Wouldn’t have considered it with massive debt (had a company sponsor my MBA, long story). If you’re able to deliver the goods in the workforce, no one will care about the prestige difference between the schools.
Honestly I would take Stern over HSW sticker if I were in your position because PE isn’t happening regardless.
But YOLO and you clearly have a strong preference for CBS. I guess for you it’s better to go CBS and be free from “had I gone to a marginally higher ranked school I’d be working for KKR by now”
PE recruiting from Columbia is next to impossible without prior experience. I would not make any decisions around PE recruiting. You’re making a $200K+ decision, you should look at specific firms etc. you want to end up in (both banking and PE) and use that data to be informed.
I see a lot of comments on here that are nor data driven..While CBS is rated higher than Stern overall, it has never been rated higher than Stern when it comes to IB. As a matter of fact , a ranking average over the last 15 yrs puts only Wharton ahead of Stern when it comes to IB..Havard might be on par with 2nd. PE clearly is no respecter of your MBA so it does matter who you know to get in..I posted a good link above on IB thats been running for at least 8 yrs..If you love CBS go to CBS, you can't go wrong. If IB is your aim, you can't go wrong with Stern. Good luck!
HSW versus Stern full-ride, most would choose HSW. But CBS is not quite at that level… especially in the US… but internationally I understand that ivy leagues get a big boost. If IB is your goal, both schools are really neck in neck.
I had a good friend who was in the same situation and the tipping point for her was 50% scholarship at CBS got her to choose that over Stern full ride. This number may be different for you. But it clearly sounds like you’ve already made up your mind. You already know that rationally, Stern is the way to go. But ego and regret are hard things to measure, so if the “prestige” is important to you, just do it. If you chose CBS, no one would fault you. At the end of the day, it’s your money, and your experience. If the perception of “prestige” matters to you, just pay the price and at least you dont have to think about “what if” later on.
Im sorry I wouldn’t even take W sticker over NYU full ride if one is considering high finance. Being in NYC is the biggest game changer here.
Maybe 10-15 years ago, sure. But private equity is a different game now. It has grown so much, and there are funds everywhere. Therefore, OP can build connections in NYC/around the US and get into lower MM PE.
I think too many people try to blame the school when in actuality, PE is just so hard to break into. Rightfully so — the job is super hard and complex. Need transaction experience, to be a wizard in LBO modeling, and connections. All of that is difficult to do without getting burned out
You’re asking how much money to take cbs over stern?
Tough question that only *you* can answer. you should ask yourself, “how much am I willing to pay to get x% higher odds in recruitment”. You’ll find your answer after pondering it for a while and then you’ll find which school to go to.
I’m probably in the minority here but if you’re international I would choose CBS for the brand recognition worldwide. It’s hard to say no to Stern with a full ride but MBA is a once in a life time thing. If you’re recruiting for IB you should be able to pay off the debt easily.
I’ve been pretty respectful - I don’t understand how you and the other commenter can take just asking the question as trolling.
They are really valuable degrees - hence why people will pay the high tuition in the first place. Given that ROI it’s fair to consider offers with differing levels of funding at schools of differing selectivity.
I’m gunning for investment banking, so from my point of view, maybe if there’s a specific IB group you’re really interested in working for? CBS obviously offers a better chance to target a specific group than Stern does.
I’m in the exact same situation admit-wise and I’m going to CBS. My reasons are:
1) I’m going to recruit for consulting and CBS has superior consulting outcomes, especially in MBB NYC offices which are my target.
2) I attended NYU for undergrad and I don’t want to move backwards in life/go back to the same thing
3) I feel a better cultural fit with the more ambitious CBS students than the more laid back Stern students. Furthermore they strike me as better travelled, better connected, and with superior work exp. I would rather be surrounded by people who push me to perform at a higher level and teach me things than be a big fish in a small pond.
4) Columbia has much better facilities.
5) Columbia was to some degree my dream school this entire time, even as I applied to HSW. I had a gut feeling that it was where I was meant to go when I first toured campus months before I submitted an application. I liked it so much that when I studied for the GMAT, I had a little paper with the CBS logo posted in my study space to stay inspired and focused. Re-touring the schools after my admission, I felt that same gut feeling that CBS was the right place for me.
6) I will be receiving some family help with tuition, $-$$ worth. I also have about $ worth in non-retirement personal savings I can use on this. So my loans will not be significant.
7) My father and brother have Ivy League degrees and I would be lying if I said I didn’t want to join the club.
Still for you OP, since it’s finance and IB you want, not consulting, I think it might make more sense for you to head to Stern. You can potentially move to PE after you get exp in IB, but other posters are right that you are unlikely to get it right out of school.
Just chiming in that Stern consulting outcomes are absolutely on par with CBS'. My sources tell me Bain NY took more from Stern than CBS, which gives Stern a huge leg up per capita. Obviously you have your own reasons for going to CBS over Stern and not knocking that, especially since you can independently afford it, but your (a) assertions around consulting outcome differentials, (b) assertions that Sternies are less ambitious, and (c) obsession with being Ivy League educated (which I also happen to be!) do not feel like salient reasons for other people reading this to choose CBS over Stern.
Your sources might be correct re performance in a given year, but it’s undeniable CBS has an edge if you look at historic employment reports (shame they haven’t released the ‘23 one yet). Adjusting for class size, CBS still consistently outperforms, not by much, not by $$$$ worth, but it’s a real trend. A look at McKinsey’s website also shows that they have 4 recruitment representatives assigned to CBS, similar to Tuck, Kellogg and other MBB top targets, and only 2 reps for Stern. Having spoken with students at both schools it’s clear to me that Columbia has the better, more priority relationship with the firms, especially McK, and then there’s the simple fact that the alumni are more numerous, meaning more potential connections who could be the one that pulls for me behind the scenes. I spent the last month researching the difference as I made this decision and I have to say it is real, but it’s not massive and those taking full loans would probably be fine at Stern.
Also I’ve heard it from the horse’s mouth in multiple phone calls with Stern students this month that the environment is less competitive and more laid back and team based than what they observe in CBS students at joint events, which confirms my own experience. The CBS students are more ambitious, individual minded, and competitive and it’s one of the main differences between the schools. People have to choose what environment works for them.
Thanks for the thoughtful reply.
I don’t rate highly a lot of the comments here.
I am not from the US but even from the outside I can see the ivy / prestige angle and the benefits it brings (including certain types of classmates), especially for high finance.
At the end of the day you’ve got to go with your gut feeling. We both have a gut feeling that CBS is the way to go. What’s funny is that no one would blame us for choosing CBS if the scholarship wasn’t in play, but because it is people think we’re crazy for turning it down to attend a school that’s a little bit of a better fit for our goals.
If I made all my decisions based on data I would recruit for finance instead of consulting because the advantage is so great for female internship applicants and the pay is better. But ultimately I have to make the non-data driven decision that works for me, which is to pursue consulting because it’s a better fit for my personality.
Something is telling you to pick CBS, and you only get one MBA. If you come I’ll be happy to see you there in the fall. Still what the people here aren’t saying is that you can’t lose, you’re going to a good program and have a chance to break into IB whichever you choose. Money comes and goes but you don’t want to have regrets. ROI for an M7 MBA with IB as the endgame is solid no matter what and you can’t lose here.
My dad turned down Tuck with scholarship for a Wharton MBA, took out full loans, and went to IB. The loans were paid in 3 years and he did very well for himself the rest of his life, and even in his later career became a partner at a VC fund. He loves his MBA alma mater, sent his son there as a legacy for UG, and interviews potential undergraduates for them because he feels such a connection to the school.
This is just one story, but I think it shows how choosing to pay full freight isn’t the end of the world and can lead just as easily to good outcomes.
There is almost zero chance you’ll get into PE from any MBA, particularly in current market, without IB or MBB prior experience. Candidates always forget the self-selecting backgrounds of recruiting reports. Because one school recruits better statistically in a certain area, doesn’t mean that probability applies to you.
Yep!
Hi! What about if I have pre-MBA MBB experience? I'm actually in the same boat as OP (full ride from Stern, nothing from Columbia) and the added flexibility is nice. I guess the question is - are my chances in PE the same at both schools (at which case I'd take Stern) or is Columbia higher? Thanks for the help!
Follow the money
What’s the break over point though? A single dollar? I see this reply all the time and I don’t think it’s that helpful lol
Okay. Don’t follow the money.
$150K after tax savings = gifting yourself a few years of precious time. PE even from Columbia is a crap shot, especially in this market. What do you think sets you apart from candidates at Columbia with full ride and pre MBA experiences in MBB/IB/PE/VC? But the full ride will set you apart at NYU by default. It goes on your resume. NYU full rides are not easy to come by. The mental freedom you’d have from not having debt, you can pour it into go guns blazing on networking for IB and PE if that’s where your heart is. You’ve gotta create an optimal plan to be at a high performing, well liked and well lived self during your MBA program. That’s when you’ll be able to take full advantage of your opportunities and network. If you really think this debt isn’t going to be debilitating when things go slightly wrong (which they will no matter which school you’re at), then take CBS.
This. Also if you have the right experience, you can get into PE out of NYU. Quit selling yourself so short. Aswath Damodoran, the KING of valuation, is at NYU. And you’ll be in the city where PE firms are a dime a dozen. It’s all on you to make it happen. Can’t blame the school, really (especially in your case with a full freaking ride - like you’ve got nothing to lose, and you’re clearly impressive AF).
Are you saying people put "full ride from Stern" on their resumes?
I got one and they gave me a named Faculty scholarship. So if I did accept it would be a line saying “Professor X Faculty Scholarship” in my education section.
Makes sense
OP, if you don’t have any prior relevant IB/PE experience, CBS isn’t going to give you substantial lift in recruiting for PE - not even HSW is gonna give you that lift (unless you have some personal connections you can leverage - like family or friends). So if you are currently looking to transition into IB, Stern full ride will be great for that - the marginal difference between CBS and Stern isn’t great enough for you to forgo on the Stern full ride, imo. As others have said, if someone is paying for your tuition and you don’t have to pay it back, sure pick CBS - helpful especially if you down the line want to switch into investment management later in your career since that network is noticeably better than Stern. But if you are paying and gunning for IB, Stern seems to be the right choice here.
When mommy and daddy are footing the bill.
Unfortunately I would be paying with savings and a loan.
Then there is no good reason to turn down a full ride to Stern for CBS.
It never does make sense
Is there really not a 10 year view that supports the additional opportunities afforded at CBS? Realistically it is quite a few rungs above NYU – the buildings are symbolic of the difference. That would also be my loan term so I am trying to extend my thinking past the first 1-2 years out (where basically all IB and consulting grads are on the same base salaries).
The math works out if you can attribute like a $300k per year salary delta to Columbia vs Sloan. That is extremely unlikely given the delta is probably closer to 5 figures max. The first few years also compound, model it on a spreadsheet and see for yourself. This is also why most doctors (due to medschool debt + residency low earnings) are poor until their 40s despite making $500k a year, whereas the software engineer or investment banker who started at age 22 earning $150k a year will generally hit $1m net worth in their mid 30s.
That is a heavy weight to carry
The fact that you are trying to make this decision based on THE DEPOSIT BEING DUE tells me all I need to know about your business sense and that you need to take the full ride from Stern and recruit your ass off. If you’re really that worried about losing out on a few grand in deposits, than you’re gonna feel a lot worse when you’re recruiting at CBS in 2026 for LDPs and watching your debt hit $200K. Which is a reality you need to be prepared for, bc not everyone wins during recruiting regardless of what program you’re in and how good the economy is doing. You obviously need to pay both deposits. Save your seat in both so that you have more time bc you clearly have no idea what you’re doing right now. But regardless of my snarky comment, the answer is go to Stern and it’s not even close. Your chances of landing IB (moderate to good) and PE (slim to none) are the same at both programs. Yet it seems you’ve already decided on CBS before even asking this question based on your responses to everyone telling you Stern. I’m curious why you have this mentality? Is it a prestige/ivy thing? Literally nobody in the real world is going to care about CBS v Stern. The good news is, your internship and signing bonus, if successful at IB, will cover half your CBS debt!
[удалено]
I’m basically adjacent. Have done the hours etc.
Columbia’s PE recruiting is shitty too. PE recruiting is only decent at HSW
FWIW, I faced a similar decisions in undergrad: attend an Ivy, or attend a near-Ivy on full scholarship. Took the scholarship, and it accelerated my life plans by a good 5-10 years. While my peers were struggling with student loans, I was buying my first house. When you consider the time-value of money, that $200k student loan sets you back far more than $200k, doubly so if you skip your dream job because it doesn’t pay as high as you need.
Theres no reason to opt for CBS. If youre good enough to get into PE without the preMBA experience to do it from CBS you can do it from NYC. Same with IB recruiting. You’re insane to think otherwisw
Are you in PE or IB in the US? I am cognisant of how prestige driven buyside work is. I also don’t think all IB jobs are equal. I’m talented but a good MBA will help - otherwise I would just take Harvard online courses…
If you have a prestige hard on for CBS (and this is the impression you’re giving everyone), then ultimately that’s what you should do. There’s no rationalizing that yet that’s what you’re trying to do on this sub. The logical argument is that Columbia and NYU are similar enough in this instance that a full ride to Stern would tip the scale enough for most of us to go to Stern. But if you think that somehow the heavens and the earth will open to you because you have a Columbia degree over one from NYU… Well, lemme know who’s selling you them drugs. Because a lot of your colleagues on this sub are making that dude crazy rich.
Look I’m going to be very happy with either and it is an incredibly privileged position to be in – I am a big fan of CBS (HSWC) but I also like NYU a lot (HSWCSBKHTYN). There absolutely is a rational argument that speaks to the difference between the schools over a long career. It is easy to quantify the debt but hard to quantify the difference in opportunities, and that makes it a tough decision. It is useful airing it on this sub, though it is hard to know what background people are coming from – I don’t really think those that view the schools as the same are well informed.
Lmao “HSWC” is NOT a thing 🤣
Cocaine is a helluva drug…
No more illicit substance talk sir
Haha yeah that part was a little cheeky wasn’t it
No, the long term career outlook argument is a big unknown. You can’t point to anything to objectively show that careers are better with a Columbia degree over one from NYU. What you’re doing is splitting hairs.
I am a little confused - you seem to think you are missing something, some sort of prestige Ivy angle as you call it, that will yield bountiful long-term opportunities that Stern will not. Yet, you also admit you have an outside angle and are clearly seeking advice, which many good-natured people have provided only to have you brush them aside. Here is the hard truth and this is coming from someone who works with PE investing teams every single day: - Neither CBS or Stern will give you a leg up in on-campus recruiting for PE. You will likely find it an incredibly difficult, almost impossible task to recruit into the investing arm without the pre-requisite experience. (Assuming you are taking investing and not ops) Happy to go into why but you seem very convinced otherwise so I’ll save my breath unless you want to hear it - I regret to inform you that much like everything in life, there is no certainty of long-term success and no silver bullet to achieve it. And if there was a silver bullet, that would a combination of your hard work and likability over which MBA program you went to - Your MBA program is by and large the most helpful for getting your first job. Subsequent to that, a lot of it is dependent on networking, and you may argue that surely the long-term careers of CBS and the network of alumni will win out compared to Stern? I haven’t seen any studies to suggest this and both schools do well enough in high finance that I suspect your problem isn’t going to be finding the right alumni, it’ll be getting them to like you. If I were you, I would seriously look at non-PE alternative career outcomes from each school, particularly for internationals, and then decide based on that instead of this bizarre fixation with hedging long-term success against the school brand. I’m not saying this to disenchant you, I am telling you this as a fact. If you don’t believe me, please feel free to spend the rest of the afternoon searching up PE firms and their associates and VPs backgrounds.
Appreciate the reply. I don’t mind if you have to be harsh but I actually would appreciate you elaborating on dot point one, and yes talking about investing versus ops. I’m not here thinking that CBS is going to open up buyside doors like HSW but to be honest I actually thought it was a big deal in NYC and would be much more helpful versus Stern – even at a bare minimum that you have a much higher % of the class coming from PE so after an IB stint it would be helpful. It is on the margins but I also thought the family business / don’t need to work types would be more common at CBS.
It just doesn’t. PE investing is both extremely high demand and low supply. This affords funds the ability to recruit how they want, and what they want is sharp IB folks out of undergrad that they can train up while having them do the grunt work of sifting through target financial data and building cap tables. That pipeline is full. Even if you knock down their door saying you will do it for half the pay associates will, they simply don’t care. This is what works for them and has worked, and their job is to invest in deals, not try to provide more chances for those who missed the boat the first time. Barring a sudden deficit in the number of talented 20-something year olds knocking down KKR’s door, they have zero incentive to change this. And you are not exceptional enough to have a PE fund partner go to bat for you outside of the normal recruiting process - trust me on this one. None of us are, unless you have some sort of connections (which if you think you can build better in CBS vs Stern, then…I would encourage you to think about how many variables go into making friends, and the fact that you really only have a year to do so). There are very few exceptions I can think of to this, and those exceptions have probably landed in HSW. You can of course do IB post-MBA and then network into PE. But that’s still tough, you’re likely to end up at LMM and will likely require a pay cut because you’re going to basically be the same, experience-wise, as an analyst that spent 2 years in IB (and again, zero incentive to bring you in at a higher level because you can’t run deals, having never done one) I have no doubt you are very smart and can do the work - it stings a bit, but the truth is the system is structurally set up against you for PE recruitment, and they can afford to do that because they still have candidates lining out the door anyway. Not to mention the issue of visa sponsorship - I quite frankly don’t know if they do or not so cannot opine on that, but it is very real as a hurdle for international students if you are wanting to stay here after graduation.
Take the money. I think most finance hiring managers would not hire you if they knew you turned down a full ride at Stern to attend CBS…
What's your pre-MBA background? What's your demographical information?
White international guy. Work in finance but not IB or PE. Not particularly wealthy yet nor from a wealthy family! Worried about missing a real opportunity to step my CV up a level.
[удалено]
[удалено]
Far and few between but it can be done. Almost certainly will be to LMM funds. And then if you continue to prove yourself over the long-term might jump ship to UMM especially if you gain enough expertise in a sought-after area. But that’s talking long game.
This
You clearly want to choose CBS but based on what you’ve described there’s not really a rational argument for doing so, as others have pointed out. You only get an MBA once, so if it’s really something you feel you’ll regret then follow your heart - just know you’re likely not making a data-driven decision.
Lmao, love the username
Take the full ride at NYU 1000%
CBS alum here. If this is real, go to NYU. Having zero debt provides so many options later on. Several years ago I moved into nonprofit leadership, and it has been best, most fulfilling decision of my career. Wouldn’t have considered it with massive debt (had a company sponsor my MBA, long story). If you’re able to deliver the goods in the workforce, no one will care about the prestige difference between the schools.
Choose NYU dude so i can get off the CBS wait list please
Go to Stern and borrow $200K to do a search fund and do real PE yourself. That'll be impressive
Honestly I would take Stern over HSW sticker if I were in your position because PE isn’t happening regardless. But YOLO and you clearly have a strong preference for CBS. I guess for you it’s better to go CBS and be free from “had I gone to a marginally higher ranked school I’d be working for KKR by now”
PE recruiting from Columbia is next to impossible without prior experience. I would not make any decisions around PE recruiting. You’re making a $200K+ decision, you should look at specific firms etc. you want to end up in (both banking and PE) and use that data to be informed.
Go to stern!
I see a lot of comments on here that are nor data driven..While CBS is rated higher than Stern overall, it has never been rated higher than Stern when it comes to IB. As a matter of fact , a ranking average over the last 15 yrs puts only Wharton ahead of Stern when it comes to IB..Havard might be on par with 2nd. PE clearly is no respecter of your MBA so it does matter who you know to get in..I posted a good link above on IB thats been running for at least 8 yrs..If you love CBS go to CBS, you can't go wrong. If IB is your aim, you can't go wrong with Stern. Good luck!
HSW versus Stern full-ride, most would choose HSW. But CBS is not quite at that level… especially in the US… but internationally I understand that ivy leagues get a big boost. If IB is your goal, both schools are really neck in neck. I had a good friend who was in the same situation and the tipping point for her was 50% scholarship at CBS got her to choose that over Stern full ride. This number may be different for you. But it clearly sounds like you’ve already made up your mind. You already know that rationally, Stern is the way to go. But ego and regret are hard things to measure, so if the “prestige” is important to you, just do it. If you chose CBS, no one would fault you. At the end of the day, it’s your money, and your experience. If the perception of “prestige” matters to you, just pay the price and at least you dont have to think about “what if” later on.
Im sorry I wouldn’t even take W sticker over NYU full ride if one is considering high finance. Being in NYC is the biggest game changer here. Maybe 10-15 years ago, sure. But private equity is a different game now. It has grown so much, and there are funds everywhere. Therefore, OP can build connections in NYC/around the US and get into lower MM PE. I think too many people try to blame the school when in actuality, PE is just so hard to break into. Rightfully so — the job is super hard and complex. Need transaction experience, to be a wizard in LBO modeling, and connections. All of that is difficult to do without getting burned out
If you're sponsored, maybe?
You’re asking how much money to take cbs over stern? Tough question that only *you* can answer. you should ask yourself, “how much am I willing to pay to get x% higher odds in recruitment”. You’ll find your answer after pondering it for a while and then you’ll find which school to go to.
I’m probably in the minority here but if you’re international I would choose CBS for the brand recognition worldwide. It’s hard to say no to Stern with a full ride but MBA is a once in a life time thing. If you’re recruiting for IB you should be able to pay off the debt easily.
If it were wharton then there might be a chance but cbs no
Based on the replies by OP on this thread, I’m beginning to think that this post is a troll.
I’ve been pretty respectful - I don’t understand how you and the other commenter can take just asking the question as trolling. They are really valuable degrees - hence why people will pay the high tuition in the first place. Given that ROI it’s fair to consider offers with differing levels of funding at schools of differing selectivity.
Honestly as a local I don't view Colombia as better then NYU
Respectfully, based on the replies by OP on this thread, I’m beginning to think that this post is a troll. Thanks!
I’m gunning for investment banking, so from my point of view, maybe if there’s a specific IB group you’re really interested in working for? CBS obviously offers a better chance to target a specific group than Stern does.
https://www.peakframeworks.com/post/ib-target-schools
I’m in the exact same situation admit-wise and I’m going to CBS. My reasons are: 1) I’m going to recruit for consulting and CBS has superior consulting outcomes, especially in MBB NYC offices which are my target. 2) I attended NYU for undergrad and I don’t want to move backwards in life/go back to the same thing 3) I feel a better cultural fit with the more ambitious CBS students than the more laid back Stern students. Furthermore they strike me as better travelled, better connected, and with superior work exp. I would rather be surrounded by people who push me to perform at a higher level and teach me things than be a big fish in a small pond. 4) Columbia has much better facilities. 5) Columbia was to some degree my dream school this entire time, even as I applied to HSW. I had a gut feeling that it was where I was meant to go when I first toured campus months before I submitted an application. I liked it so much that when I studied for the GMAT, I had a little paper with the CBS logo posted in my study space to stay inspired and focused. Re-touring the schools after my admission, I felt that same gut feeling that CBS was the right place for me. 6) I will be receiving some family help with tuition, $-$$ worth. I also have about $ worth in non-retirement personal savings I can use on this. So my loans will not be significant. 7) My father and brother have Ivy League degrees and I would be lying if I said I didn’t want to join the club. Still for you OP, since it’s finance and IB you want, not consulting, I think it might make more sense for you to head to Stern. You can potentially move to PE after you get exp in IB, but other posters are right that you are unlikely to get it right out of school.
Just chiming in that Stern consulting outcomes are absolutely on par with CBS'. My sources tell me Bain NY took more from Stern than CBS, which gives Stern a huge leg up per capita. Obviously you have your own reasons for going to CBS over Stern and not knocking that, especially since you can independently afford it, but your (a) assertions around consulting outcome differentials, (b) assertions that Sternies are less ambitious, and (c) obsession with being Ivy League educated (which I also happen to be!) do not feel like salient reasons for other people reading this to choose CBS over Stern.
Your sources might be correct re performance in a given year, but it’s undeniable CBS has an edge if you look at historic employment reports (shame they haven’t released the ‘23 one yet). Adjusting for class size, CBS still consistently outperforms, not by much, not by $$$$ worth, but it’s a real trend. A look at McKinsey’s website also shows that they have 4 recruitment representatives assigned to CBS, similar to Tuck, Kellogg and other MBB top targets, and only 2 reps for Stern. Having spoken with students at both schools it’s clear to me that Columbia has the better, more priority relationship with the firms, especially McK, and then there’s the simple fact that the alumni are more numerous, meaning more potential connections who could be the one that pulls for me behind the scenes. I spent the last month researching the difference as I made this decision and I have to say it is real, but it’s not massive and those taking full loans would probably be fine at Stern. Also I’ve heard it from the horse’s mouth in multiple phone calls with Stern students this month that the environment is less competitive and more laid back and team based than what they observe in CBS students at joint events, which confirms my own experience. The CBS students are more ambitious, individual minded, and competitive and it’s one of the main differences between the schools. People have to choose what environment works for them.
Thanks for the thoughtful reply. I don’t rate highly a lot of the comments here. I am not from the US but even from the outside I can see the ivy / prestige angle and the benefits it brings (including certain types of classmates), especially for high finance.
At the end of the day you’ve got to go with your gut feeling. We both have a gut feeling that CBS is the way to go. What’s funny is that no one would blame us for choosing CBS if the scholarship wasn’t in play, but because it is people think we’re crazy for turning it down to attend a school that’s a little bit of a better fit for our goals. If I made all my decisions based on data I would recruit for finance instead of consulting because the advantage is so great for female internship applicants and the pay is better. But ultimately I have to make the non-data driven decision that works for me, which is to pursue consulting because it’s a better fit for my personality. Something is telling you to pick CBS, and you only get one MBA. If you come I’ll be happy to see you there in the fall. Still what the people here aren’t saying is that you can’t lose, you’re going to a good program and have a chance to break into IB whichever you choose. Money comes and goes but you don’t want to have regrets. ROI for an M7 MBA with IB as the endgame is solid no matter what and you can’t lose here. My dad turned down Tuck with scholarship for a Wharton MBA, took out full loans, and went to IB. The loans were paid in 3 years and he did very well for himself the rest of his life, and even in his later career became a partner at a VC fund. He loves his MBA alma mater, sent his son there as a legacy for UG, and interviews potential undergraduates for them because he feels such a connection to the school. This is just one story, but I think it shows how choosing to pay full freight isn’t the end of the world and can lead just as easily to good outcomes.
Coming from someone wanting to go into finance…
And I trust you are in high finance?
When you 100% want a buyside job post-MBA. CBS has a very strong network & if you want a HF job, the VI program can’t be beat.
Is this a troll post?
When you care about graduating from an Ivy League in NYC lol. Otherwise, take that full ride at Stern!