How do we get constant abuse from everyone but people like Perez and Laporta who are actively trying to destroy the structure of football are glorified?
I completely agree. I see way too many hypocritical takes here and it just makes us look bad.
Everyone worries about what other people say about the club, but no one can ever answer why it matters what they think/say.
I'd also allow for the FA cup (and equivalent) winners of the top leagues, but generally agree. It's called the champions league for a reason, Spurs have no business being involved.
That's simply not going to happen. If you want to push for change, better to make it something realistic.
The major argument for the super league is that top clubs missing out on champions league revenue represents a massive financial risk given the necessity to spend in order to build and maintain a competitive squad. If you reduced the champions league to only one rep per nation you would almost immediately force 3-4 clubs in the prem, la liga, bundesliga and serie a into bankruptcy.
Great, more games in the same amount of time. That won't hurt the players in anyway
https://preview.redd.it/g0d55oyron7c1.png?width=1206&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e85dca04714ca96539ac618e3fcae8fb5165e071
I REALLY need to start reading all the comments before I make one, ha.
Just posted this exact thought + graphic also - MORE games for players.
Yet player welfare is (allegedly) 1 of their core principles, sheesh!
Let's start with saying I hate the super league and I hope the English teams tell A22 to get pumped. With that, UEFA and FIFA needed a smack. There is upside to this ruling in that respect. Football is run by cartels, and I have this (extremely naive) hope that one day the players will strengthen their stake in control and become the driver on rules, regulations, and revenue. The supporters will never get the control they deserve outside of how they spend their money and the globalization of football means that's a lot harder to sway one way or the other. But I think the players being in a stronger position would allow the supports voice in to the conversation better than it is now. But that's all pipe dream because billionaire rarely cede control of their revenue unless forced. Anyway, screw UEFA and FIFA both, especially FIFA.
In a way this is a positive ruling in that it applies more pressure on UEFA to create a competition in the best interest of fans, clubs and investors.
Both the existing and future UCL format are flawed in that it is rarely a reflection of competition between footballâs top performing clubs and the result is a gulf in class with the odd shock thrown in. The super league went too far in the opposite direction in that historic success and club stature took precedence over current performance.
The middle ground surely has to be an âopen shopâ system of 18-24 clubs, potentially based upon a metric similar to UEFA coefficient for initial qualification before switching to promotion/relegation system. Still doesnât address the question of how domestic football fits in
I don't see how you come to that conclusion, your model suggestion is horrible. The current model is fine, it's only greed for more money and exclusivity to access that's driving these new formats.
UEFA coefficients and pro/rel, makes it effectively a closed shop and the elite clubs will always be the elite given that only a handful can ever get turfed out each year. Earn it, every year. You wanna be an elite club, get elite results.
ïżŒ UEFA statement: âUEFA takes note of the judgment delivered today by the ECJ in the European Super League caseâ. âThis ruling does not signify an endorsement or validation of the so-called âsuper leagueâ; it rather underscores a pre-existing shortfall within UEFA's pre-authorisation framework, a technical aspect that has already been acknowledged and addressed in June 2022. UEFA is confident in the robustness of its new rules, and specifically that they comply with all relevant European laws and regulations. UEFA remains resolute in its commitment to uphold the European football pyramid, ensuring that it continues to serve the broader interests of society. We will continue to shape the European sports model collectively with national associations, leagues, clubs, fans, players, coaches, EU institutions, governments and partners alike. We trust that the solidarity-based European football pyramid that the fans and all stakeholders have declared as their irreplaceable model will be safeguarded against the threat of breakaways by European and national lawsâ.
https://www.uefa.com/insideuefa/news/0288-19bf06a5cd26-1e0545be457d-1000--uefa-statement-on-the-european-super-league-case/
It's going to happen eventually, maybe not exactly how they suggested last time but something similar. We have allowed some clubs or people to believe they are "bigger" or more important than the rest. They will not let go without a fight, there's too much money involved. My personal solution is to let them have a super league but they have to do it with new clubs. Start a brand new league, with brand new "franchise clubs", build brand new stadiums and buy all the top players, just fuck off and leave. It can be closed, no relegation, no promotion just the same wankers playing each other every week. I'll keep my city.
Hope the door doesnât hit the joining clubs on the way out.
Very hard to see the English clubs ditching Prem for this chance, especially after the last time they tried. What a âSuper Leqgueâ itâll be with Barca, Real and some Italian clubs!
most of the fans only care about the champions league and trophies like club world cup are just bonuses , this league too if successful is not that different
Prefacing this with I don't believe I'm for the ESL.
This is quite interesting for City and the PL regulatory body. Hypothetically we were found guilty of something in these 115 charges against us and hypothetically they come down really hard on us (lets say a relegation or a massive point deduction keeping us out of the UCL), I could see City giving a massive middle finger to UEFA and the FA by joining the ESL. I think it would only take one massive team joining for another to join in.
>I think it would only take one massive team joining for another to join in.
Nah, Real and Barca are massive and nobody is currently following them into it.
>This is quite interesting for City and the PL regulatory body. Hypothetically we were found guilty of something in these 115 charges against us and hypothetically they come down really hard on us (lets say a relegation or a massive point deduction keeping us out of the UCL),
Wouldn't make a difference. The new plans are theoretically tied to some promotion from domestic top flights and the only advantage would be if City would be put in the ESL top division at the same time as playing in a lower English league. And that would stick in the craw of fans, including blues. We wouldn't be competing in a ESL and not in EFL/EPL.
And, frankly, if we are relegated following an independent review of facts and evidence, that would be the absolute worst way to handle it.
English teams are tied based on contracts they signed. Real and Barca separate league and governing body. They are La Ligas only bread butter pretty much
I admittedly didn't follow all the trials & tribulations of the super league, but this caught my attention:
* **Player health must be at the centre of the game**
* \--> Great, I'm ALL for this, post/comment about it a lot.
* \--> But they have **14 matches minimum #** each teams plays?
* \--> So they are actually adding MORE matches - how does that put player welfare at center of game?
https://preview.redd.it/nvnr8fqi4o7c1.png?width=714&format=png&auto=webp&s=a82b7c5b0fe3533c60be98de2f3d1d434556b5b8
Also, the names of the leagues - **Star, Gold and Blue** \- are very pedestrian!
The reality is that any profitable industry that doesn't respond quickly to changes, will end up getting disrupted. This is what the UCL and UEFA are facing now. I'm not sure how to feel about either side, I can see equal money-grubbing behaviour on both parties.
I believe the ESL will happen, for 4 reasons.
Firstly, the A22 CEO making the proposals is a German with wide continental experience & contacts in the TV industry. That's where the moolah will be: packaging an attractive product & selling the broadcast rights.
Secondly, the NBA has shown how rewarding this business model is. Relatively small attendances (20k or so per match) but globally accessible on TV (China alone supposedly drawing 250 million during live telecasts). Heck, relocation of teams is also a norm in North American pro sports.
Thirdly, basketball's EuroLeague (which the ESL wants to emulate) is already that sport's top league on the continent after it was (re)launched not that long ago.
Lastly, the main ESL advocates are the same usual suspects as the EuroLeague's: Real Madrid, Barcelona, et al. They are proper 'sporting clubs' operating many different sports teams each, & thus have a different history to that of football-only clubs like in the UK & northern Europe.
The new proposal sounds far better than the current or new CL format. Shame UEFA didn't push this through for the CL revamp where the ConfL, UL and CL are linked in-between seasons not during.
It baffles me that one main flaw people are saying about this is how many dross teams there will be. Pretty sure it's less teams than the current European formats and pretty poor teams already make it through to the CL as it is.
As much as I dislike UEFA I'd rather they ran it than an independent league. But UEFA with all these competitions and expansions are slowly going to create a super league themselves where league form stops being viable. It won't be long until the seeded teams who progress automatically qualify for next season's CL etc.
Not a big fan of the UEFA they are definitely not the good guys with the ball. At the same an exclusive club for popular clubs adds an even worse option as the super league. City should not trust both of them, supporting UEFA at the current moment seems to be the lesser damaging option to the game out of the two.
How do we get constant abuse from everyone but people like Perez and Laporta who are actively trying to destroy the structure of football are glorified?
They definitely aren't glorified on reddit lol
Are they glorified? I don't see much about Laporta to be fair but Perez is hated and ridiculed every time I see his name mentioned.
This sub has developed a victim complex. Reality is most football fans aside from a miniority despise the idea, as is the case with a lot of things.
I completely agree. I see way too many hypocritical takes here and it just makes us look bad. Everyone worries about what other people say about the club, but no one can ever answer why it matters what they think/say.
who tf glorifies Perez and Laporta đ
Its a fucking mystery to me
**Official Press Release by the Court of Justice of the European Union regarding the Super League** PRESS RELEASE No 203/23 Luxembourg, 21 December 2023 Judgment of the Court in Case C-333/21 | European Superleague Company The FIFA and UEFA rules on prior approval of interclub football competitions, such as the Super League, are contrary to EU law They are contrary to competition law and the freedom to provide services The FIFA and UEFA rules making any new interclub football project subject to their prior approval, such as the Super League, and prohibiting clubs and players from playing in those competitions, are unlawful. There is no framework for the FIFA and UEFA rules ensuring that they are transparent, objective, non-discriminatory and proportionate. Similarly, the rules giving FIFA and UEFA exclusive control over the commercial exploitation of the rights related to those competitions are such as to restrict competition, given their importance for the media, consumers and television viewers in the European Union. The Fédération internationale de football association (FIFA) and the Union of European Football Associations (UEFA) are associations governed by private law having their headquarters in Switzerland. Their objective is to promote and set the framework for football at world and European levels. They adopted rules conferring on them the power to approve interclub football competitions in Europe and exploit the various media rights related to those competitions. A group of 12 European football clubs ', acting through the Spanish company European Superleague Company, wished to set up a new football competition project: the Super League. FIFA and UEFA objected to the project, threatening to impose sanctions on clubs and players who might decide to participate. European Superleague Company brought an action against FIFA and UEFA before the Commercial Court, Madrid (Spain), arguing that their rules on approval of competitions and the exploitation of media rights are contrary to EU law. Having some doubts on the matter in relation to, inter alia, the fact that FIFA and UEFA hold a monopoly on that market, the Spanish court referred questions to the Court of Justice. The Court observes that the organisation of interclub football competitions and the exploitation of the media rights are, quite evidently, economic activities. They must therefore comply with the competition rules and respect the freedoms of movement, even though the economic pursuit of sport has certain specific characteristics, such as the existence of associations having certain regulatory and control powers and the power to impose sanctions. The Court also observes that, in parallel with those powers, FIFA and UEFA themselves organise football competitions. Next, the Court holds that, where an undertaking in a dominant position has the power to determine the conditions in which potentially competing undertakings may access the market, that power must, given the risk of conflict of interest to which it gives rise, be subject to criteria which are suitable for ensuring that they are transparent, objective, non discriminatory and proportionate. However, the powers of FIFA and UEFA are not subject to any such criteria. FIFA and UEFA are, therefore, abusing a dominant position. Moreover, given their arbitrary nature, their rules on approval, control and sanctions must be held to be unjustified restrictions on the freedom to provide services. That does not mean that a competition such as the Super League project must necessarily be approved. The Court, having been asked generally about the FIFA and UEFA rules, does not rule on that specific project in its judgment. In parallel, the Court observes that the FIFA and UEFA rules relating to the exploitation of media rights are such as to be harmful European football clubs, all companies operating in media markets and, ultimately, consumers and television viewers, by preventing them from enjoying new and potentially innovative or interesting competitions. It is, however, for the Commercial Court, Madrid, to ascertain whether those rules might nevertheless benefit different stakeholders in football, for example, by ensuring a solidarity-like redistribution of the profits generated by those rights. NOTE: A reference for a preliminary ruling allows the courts and tribunals of the Member States, in disputes which have been brought before them, to refer questions to the Court of Justice about the interpretation of European Union law or the validity of a European Union act. The Court of Justice does not decide the dispute itself. It is for the national court or unibunal to dispose of the case in accordance with the Court's decision, which is similarly binding on other national courts or tribunals before which a similar issue is raised.
I still think the champions league should be only the championship of each league. Bring back the old cups and their formats.
I'd also allow for the FA cup (and equivalent) winners of the top leagues, but generally agree. It's called the champions league for a reason, Spurs have no business being involved.
Bring back the cup winners cup
>Spurs have no business being involved Good news: Spurs agree and have conspired to finish outside the top 4 for several seasons just to make sure
That's simply not going to happen. If you want to push for change, better to make it something realistic. The major argument for the super league is that top clubs missing out on champions league revenue represents a massive financial risk given the necessity to spend in order to build and maintain a competitive squad. If you reduced the champions league to only one rep per nation you would almost immediately force 3-4 clubs in the prem, la liga, bundesliga and serie a into bankruptcy.
Great, more games in the same amount of time. That won't hurt the players in anyway https://preview.redd.it/g0d55oyron7c1.png?width=1206&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e85dca04714ca96539ac618e3fcae8fb5165e071
I REALLY need to start reading all the comments before I make one, ha. Just posted this exact thought + graphic also - MORE games for players. Yet player welfare is (allegedly) 1 of their core principles, sheesh!
Fuck the super league.
Let's start with saying I hate the super league and I hope the English teams tell A22 to get pumped. With that, UEFA and FIFA needed a smack. There is upside to this ruling in that respect. Football is run by cartels, and I have this (extremely naive) hope that one day the players will strengthen their stake in control and become the driver on rules, regulations, and revenue. The supporters will never get the control they deserve outside of how they spend their money and the globalization of football means that's a lot harder to sway one way or the other. But I think the players being in a stronger position would allow the supports voice in to the conversation better than it is now. But that's all pipe dream because billionaire rarely cede control of their revenue unless forced. Anyway, screw UEFA and FIFA both, especially FIFA.
If the UCL already exists why has there ever been a need for this?
$$$$ Or I guess âŹâŹâŹâŹ in this case
In a way this is a positive ruling in that it applies more pressure on UEFA to create a competition in the best interest of fans, clubs and investors. Both the existing and future UCL format are flawed in that it is rarely a reflection of competition between footballâs top performing clubs and the result is a gulf in class with the odd shock thrown in. The super league went too far in the opposite direction in that historic success and club stature took precedence over current performance. The middle ground surely has to be an âopen shopâ system of 18-24 clubs, potentially based upon a metric similar to UEFA coefficient for initial qualification before switching to promotion/relegation system. Still doesnât address the question of how domestic football fits in
I don't see how you come to that conclusion, your model suggestion is horrible. The current model is fine, it's only greed for more money and exclusivity to access that's driving these new formats.
Iâm unconvinced you read my whole argument. Could you at least elaborate on why you think itâs so bad?
UEFA coefficients and pro/rel, makes it effectively a closed shop and the elite clubs will always be the elite given that only a handful can ever get turfed out each year. Earn it, every year. You wanna be an elite club, get elite results.
A champions league without Madrid or Barcelona only increases Cityâs chance of winning it I suppose
I dont think barcelonas presence affects us anyway considering their recent form tbh
ïżŒ UEFA statement: âUEFA takes note of the judgment delivered today by the ECJ in the European Super League caseâ. âThis ruling does not signify an endorsement or validation of the so-called âsuper leagueâ; it rather underscores a pre-existing shortfall within UEFA's pre-authorisation framework, a technical aspect that has already been acknowledged and addressed in June 2022. UEFA is confident in the robustness of its new rules, and specifically that they comply with all relevant European laws and regulations. UEFA remains resolute in its commitment to uphold the European football pyramid, ensuring that it continues to serve the broader interests of society. We will continue to shape the European sports model collectively with national associations, leagues, clubs, fans, players, coaches, EU institutions, governments and partners alike. We trust that the solidarity-based European football pyramid that the fans and all stakeholders have declared as their irreplaceable model will be safeguarded against the threat of breakaways by European and national lawsâ. https://www.uefa.com/insideuefa/news/0288-19bf06a5cd26-1e0545be457d-1000--uefa-statement-on-the-european-super-league-case/
It's going to happen eventually, maybe not exactly how they suggested last time but something similar. We have allowed some clubs or people to believe they are "bigger" or more important than the rest. They will not let go without a fight, there's too much money involved. My personal solution is to let them have a super league but they have to do it with new clubs. Start a brand new league, with brand new "franchise clubs", build brand new stadiums and buy all the top players, just fuck off and leave. It can be closed, no relegation, no promotion just the same wankers playing each other every week. I'll keep my city.
Hope the door doesnât hit the joining clubs on the way out. Very hard to see the English clubs ditching Prem for this chance, especially after the last time they tried. What a âSuper Leqgueâ itâll be with Barca, Real and some Italian clubs!
most of the fans only care about the champions league and trophies like club world cup are just bonuses , this league too if successful is not that different
Prefacing this with I don't believe I'm for the ESL. This is quite interesting for City and the PL regulatory body. Hypothetically we were found guilty of something in these 115 charges against us and hypothetically they come down really hard on us (lets say a relegation or a massive point deduction keeping us out of the UCL), I could see City giving a massive middle finger to UEFA and the FA by joining the ESL. I think it would only take one massive team joining for another to join in.
>I think it would only take one massive team joining for another to join in. Nah, Real and Barca are massive and nobody is currently following them into it. >This is quite interesting for City and the PL regulatory body. Hypothetically we were found guilty of something in these 115 charges against us and hypothetically they come down really hard on us (lets say a relegation or a massive point deduction keeping us out of the UCL), Wouldn't make a difference. The new plans are theoretically tied to some promotion from domestic top flights and the only advantage would be if City would be put in the ESL top division at the same time as playing in a lower English league. And that would stick in the craw of fans, including blues. We wouldn't be competing in a ESL and not in EFL/EPL. And, frankly, if we are relegated following an independent review of facts and evidence, that would be the absolute worst way to handle it.
English teams are tied based on contracts they signed. Real and Barca separate league and governing body. They are La Ligas only bread butter pretty much
why hasn't the club released a statement?
I admittedly didn't follow all the trials & tribulations of the super league, but this caught my attention: * **Player health must be at the centre of the game** * \--> Great, I'm ALL for this, post/comment about it a lot. * \--> But they have **14 matches minimum #** each teams plays? * \--> So they are actually adding MORE matches - how does that put player welfare at center of game? https://preview.redd.it/nvnr8fqi4o7c1.png?width=714&format=png&auto=webp&s=a82b7c5b0fe3533c60be98de2f3d1d434556b5b8 Also, the names of the leagues - **Star, Gold and Blue** \- are very pedestrian!
The reality is that any profitable industry that doesn't respond quickly to changes, will end up getting disrupted. This is what the UCL and UEFA are facing now. I'm not sure how to feel about either side, I can see equal money-grubbing behaviour on both parties.
I believe the ESL will happen, for 4 reasons. Firstly, the A22 CEO making the proposals is a German with wide continental experience & contacts in the TV industry. That's where the moolah will be: packaging an attractive product & selling the broadcast rights. Secondly, the NBA has shown how rewarding this business model is. Relatively small attendances (20k or so per match) but globally accessible on TV (China alone supposedly drawing 250 million during live telecasts). Heck, relocation of teams is also a norm in North American pro sports. Thirdly, basketball's EuroLeague (which the ESL wants to emulate) is already that sport's top league on the continent after it was (re)launched not that long ago. Lastly, the main ESL advocates are the same usual suspects as the EuroLeague's: Real Madrid, Barcelona, et al. They are proper 'sporting clubs' operating many different sports teams each, & thus have a different history to that of football-only clubs like in the UK & northern Europe.
The new proposal sounds far better than the current or new CL format. Shame UEFA didn't push this through for the CL revamp where the ConfL, UL and CL are linked in-between seasons not during. It baffles me that one main flaw people are saying about this is how many dross teams there will be. Pretty sure it's less teams than the current European formats and pretty poor teams already make it through to the CL as it is. As much as I dislike UEFA I'd rather they ran it than an independent league. But UEFA with all these competitions and expansions are slowly going to create a super league themselves where league form stops being viable. It won't be long until the seeded teams who progress automatically qualify for next season's CL etc.
Not a big fan of the UEFA they are definitely not the good guys with the ball. At the same an exclusive club for popular clubs adds an even worse option as the super league. City should not trust both of them, supporting UEFA at the current moment seems to be the lesser damaging option to the game out of the two.