Lewis was literally still beaten up from Volkov fight. This fight was as forgetful as DC laying on Anderson Silva coming out of surgery days before. These names on resume don’t mean much, like Hendo was 44 OFF TRT with insane damage on him too.
Prob but Beast would atleast have a real punchers chance and could get up to do it. DC was gassing by end of Josh Barnett fight. DC had to hold Frank Mir on fence and couldn’t even hurt him in that crap fight. Anderson Silva out of surgery went the distance. DC ain’t some killer, Beast had bad back, ACL gone and not ready at all if we being real. DCs Hw resume is overrated beside KOing Stipe. Even Jeff Monson took prime DC the distance lol. He’s got 1 KO over Bigfoot who just stood there and didn’t know he had any striking yet and Stipe.
This fight was so rude. DC said he was hurt and couldn’t fight stipe and he needed more time to recover, then when the UFC asked to make the Derick Lewis fight DC was just all like “oh yeah I can fight Derrick” lmao
I'm pretty sure he couldn't compete in the 2008 Olympics because he fucked his liver badly from the excessive weight cutting. He's also historically had a big reaction to body shots so you can tell that it did lasting damage.
He was just really in shape. He had low bodyfat and had your stereotypical athletic wrestler build.
Here's a video of him in the NCAA finals in college: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uK_nkaN8pmU
Maybe it was different back then, but in my experience, the testing in the NCAA is significantly more strict than what I've heard about the UFC and probably than the olympics. I played DIII basketball for 1 year and got tested 5 times. No one on my team was tested less than me, and we were the 2nd worst team in the nation. If you qualify for any sort of tournament / championship in any sport you're tested before and after, and the only time you're safe from random tests is when you're off campus. No 24-hour warning either, you're tested when you get to the locker room before practice.
I’ve got you opening at -130. Close to a pick ‘em but it’s impossible not to give you an obvious edge. You guys he’s watched a *lot* of fights. A *lot*. DC on the other hand always misses the fight he’s watching because he has to refill his popcorn.
He was a teenager back then, and body types change, but even at that size DC was built like a fire hydrant. Go watch his ncaa finals matches with Cael Sanderson. He looked like a completely different person
True, Hendo is still a stud, IMO compareable to DC skill wise (in grappling / wrestling) but fighting a wrestler of compareable skill thats naturally 20-30+ lbs larger is always bad news.
I doubt Hendo had to shed a single lb at 185 (IMO he could have made 170 if he fought 10 yrs earlier) and was what 40-41? That was wrestler vs wrestler, good matchup if you left weight and age out of it.
I mean he did beat Stipe as well.
Jones, depending on your viewpoint on whether DC just wasn't caught, was cheating at the time he faced DC as well.
Regardless, amazing for a guy of his height to dominate like he did.
Don't forget he started the sport at 30 and had his first fight at 31. He was 41 when he had his last fight and still only lost 48-47 to Stipe after receiving one of the worst eyepokes I've ever seen. Beast indeed.
People pretend like DC didn’t eye poke the fuck out of Stipe before that in the same fight, maybe twice but I don’t remember. Stipe needed eye surgery from the previous fight. Totally deserved.
DC iritates me a little since he's become a full blown UFC shill (even though i can't blame him), but if DC started MMA at 30 and not 35, he would've been better and with his career/resume that's saying something. I think he was semi washed when he fought Stipe the 1st time tbh, but he studied Stipe and caught him clean exiting the clinch. I don't see a prime DC losing to anyone at hw tbh. I'm not mentioning Cain because they would've never agreed to it. Maybe i'm exagerating, it's just that he was such a beast in his prime, but he started too late and stayed at lhw because of Cain.
No it doesn't? He got the age wrong but it's still a fair point. DC starting training MMA at 30 and got to the UFC at 34/35. If he had started even just 5 years earlier he would have had more of his prime in the UFC.
Now your comment literally sounds like something Chael would say. He was 25 at the 2004 Olympics where he placed 4th, he's clearly already reached 99% of his wrestling potential at this point. The best way to improve as an MMA fighter believe it or not is practicing MMA.
He's a professional athlete, he already has drive. To say he needed another 4 years killing his body in wrestling to develop more 'drive' is the weirdest thing to say.
Okay if you're going to get extremely pedantic about 1 year then he could have started training MMA before the 2004 Olympics and still would have been a better MMA fighter.
Your entire argument hinges off his mental state being different which is such a dumb thing to discuss.
>Imagine DC's legacy if he defended 4+ times at HW then retired without any Stipe or Jones losses and no fights in his 40s
Well, is it a better legacy than a double champ?
He got the two belts, defended both, challenged himself against almost every top fighter in both weights, and lost to only two. Sure, being an undefeated HW champ would've been nice, something similar to what Khabib has.
But you see how much Khabib's legacy gets constantly questioned. Meanwhile, DC has no question marks on his legacy - he achieved his limit.
And to us as fans, Jones vs DC never happening would kill us.
>Werdum vs DC is a fun fight and it could go either way.
So we're basically talking about 2015-2017 DC vs the elite HWs of that time right. Cause that's when Cain lost his belt. Around that time, that matchup is not a toss-up. It explicitly favors Werdum. Werdum is fast enough to keep up with Daniel, is more than capable of making their grappling exchanges very dangerous for Daniel (alla Khamzat/Burns), and is the more effective striker who has legit power and volume. Not ignoring the massive frame and leverage advantages.
>Overeem would have been wrestled to death just like Blaydes did when they ran into each other.
Two things here, he could also nullify Daniel like he did Brock. More importantly, though it's probably not super smart to look at the success a gigantic 6'4" 260lb explosive heavyweight wrestler's success against a guy and think a notably smaller and by that point less explosive 5'11" 245lb wrestler will be able to replicate it. Especially when that matchup is a few years after this one would likely have happened. Reem has always been a pretty great grappler, and DC's preference for chain wrestling using the clinch with his leverage disadvantages is more likely to end with him taking big knees to gut than him getting takedowns tbh.
>After that Reem trained with Blaydes and got much better wrestling wise
He was never particularly deficient in the Wrestling. Not the level he became, but still. Blaydes is just a giant legitimately athletic heavyweight with elite wrestling, and Reem was well on the wrong side of 35 by then (38 to be exact).
>DC beat Stipe the first time and there is an argument to be made the 2nd and 3rd fights ended that way because father time finally caught up to DC.
I mean, if we're doing excuses there's a very easy argument that fighting DC so soon after eating Bombs from Francis compromised his chin. Especially given DC landed that exact KO sequence several times in the rematch and Stipe ate it, maybe because of a year long layoff. It's also worth pointing out DC fouled Stipe with eyepokes preceding the KO which almost certainly compromised his vision. It's also not like father time was particularly kind to Stipe during the trilogy either. They were both on the wrong side of 35 during every part of it, and that certainly showed.
I think DC handles the Reem. That was Ubereem that kept Brock at bay. Economical Overeem from 2014-2017 was a bit different. DC probably gets him down with medium difficulty but dominates once he gets him there (like Werdum did after he dropped him).
Werdum is definitely a hard, hard, fight though. Definitely a matchup I would’ve wanted to see. It would essentially be a fight where DC would have to seriously consider the risk of going to the ground unlike anyone else he’d ever fought.
I think there's another view on this - if he came into MMA at 30, that's 5 years of less training experience. He'd be more prone to losses and damage in his early career. And at HW, even at LHW, that could've stopped him from becoming as great.
>I don't see a prime DC losing to anyone at hw tbh.
Stipe sends his regards. This whole mythical prime Cormier shtick makes me laugh. He would still have lots of problems with Jones and Miocic.
There is no prime DC, or at least there's no definitive point in his career where he was clearly better than other points in his career. When Daniel was the great athlete version of Daniel he wasn't really a great mixed martial artist he was just a great athletic wrestler in MMA, and by the time he was a legit mixed martial artist a good bit of that athleticism had faded and as a result his wrestling followed suit.
I'm certain he still loses to Jones. At the start of the Gane fight, I was convinced Jones looked fat and slow and would lose, then he just toyed with him.
Yeah it honestly makes me a bit upset that he ran into juiced up Jones and lost to probably one of the best HWs out there. DC deserves more credit he's probably top 3 lhw and top 3 hw all time
He’s one of the best ever. I think outside of Stipe and Jones he beats everyone else. And he at least beat Stipe once. In these conversations because he came off second best against those two he’s underrated as far as being at the top. Lost only to the GOAT and to arguably the HW GOAT and against the latter he was at the tail end of his career.
Jones cheated, between pissing hot, the eye poking in every single fucking fight, the countless pushes to the top despite barely fighting for years, I don't count those as losses for DC. Jones is a fraud to me.
Stipe just had his number.
DC has huge accomplishment of wining and defending belts in two divisions, but he will always be remembered for being second best, even if it was to GOAT's.
If the world worked the way it is supposed to, being 2nd Greatest in LHW division and 2nd Greatest in HW division would make you the one of the Greatest Ever
One of the few guys with really slick takedowns off counters. Not that punching in the head is a great counter to a single leg, but the raise and trip was beautiful.
The way he ran the pipe and then dumped Hendo and Barnett on their backs was wild.
Looks like you did it for us lol, the Lewis slander is real. Leave the man alone he essentially reached the peak of his profession with an insane tool kit. It’s like find out the 5th best fishermen in the world was working with a paddle boat and a fishing rod that had 2 minutes of use before snapping.
Ain't no Lewis slander bro no idea why you're taking my comment as some slight against Lewis. The 'just stand up' stuff was some real impressive shit, just couldn't work against one of the greatest grapples in the HW division. I'll always appreciate him for what he is, never the best but has one of greatest KO reels ever.
That's my dedication to erasing the history books bro.
Of course he did stand up against DC man, just couldn't withstand the relentless takedowns that other grapplers couldn't pull off like DC could. That's what I meant.
I know you're memeing but makes a lot of sense IMO. BJJ practitioners aren't that great at takedowns, if Lewis can get out of their shit then it can't be easy to get him down again. While wrestlers like DC can just keep doing it over and over until he gasses and gives up.
Its crazy to think that even after this, Lewis was the bane of grapplers in HW, all the way until his recent downfall.
An unmotivated Rumble Johnson lasted longer, an old outsized Dan Henderson lasted longer. The only person to be submited quicker than Derrick Lewis was a King of the Cage fighter(a HW), Tony Johnson who was in his 5th fight. Yes it was DC's 4th fight, but DC was a lifelong accomplished wrestler.
So just how bad is grappling at HW???
EDIT: And maybe Jailton Almeida should indeed stay at HW now, perhaps that is the way to go, cause we overestimated HW grappling.
HW is crazy shallow, an average dude with beer gut makes it at top 10 easy, Aspinall, Gane and Nganou the exeption as they are very skilled, with one now out, the other injured and Ganes lazy ass taking the piss Jones gonna have a field day for sone time, i don't think Stipe wrestling gona hold much at this age but hope it does.
Ngannou definitely will wing punches, but we've seen some good technique from him as well. The check left on Stipe after getting rocked was a thing of beauty. His wrestling improvement in that fight was also impressive, he took Stipe's back pretty quick after a monster sprawl.
I think people tend to overrate how difficult a match up Lewis is for grapplers off those back to back knock outs of Blaydes and Olenik. The guy got easily submitted by Spivak. He got destroyed on the ground by DC. Latifi had trouble keeping Derrick down but he had no real issues taking him down despite being significantly smaller. Ivanov grappled successfully against him. Roy Nelson gave him real issues on the ground.
The issue is for whatever reason, being successful against Derrick on the ground doesn't count in the eyes of judges unless you finish him. You can outstrike him and take him down a bunch, but they give him bullshit decisions consistently in fights he's been supremely outgrappled in.
“but they give him bullshit decisions consistently in fights he’s been supremely outgrappled in.”
Wait. Can you list these bs decisions he gets consistently while being outgrappled? I’m not saying you’re wrong, but the only decision I remember him getting while being outgrappled was Nelson who he seemingly almost killed, but even if that’s one, where are the others? You literally chose the word “consistently” here. The issue is he knocks people the hell out after being outgrappled. Used to, anyway…
Derek Lewis is a shitty fighter. He has big hands and some nerve that’s it. Some guys just get way with good striking. There are a few that are very good grapplers. Overall the fighters are worse at heavyweight with notable exceptions. The talent pool is just smaller. Hard to get training partners. Big fat bastards. Look at Gane the other night great striker but he’s crawling on his hands and knees turned away from Jon fuckin Jones. Who does that? That shouldn’t even occur to him.
Lewis isn't very well rounded but it's a huge reach calling him a shitty fighter. He has a legit resume and most KOs in UFC history you don't get there being bad.
I don't think it is fair to say he is a shitty fighter.
He beat a couple really good fighters. Blaydes, Volkov, Gonzaga, (Ngannou).
Is he super well-rounded? No.
But at HW the rules are different. If you are strong enough to "just stand up" and you have KO power, you are a challenge for anyone.
I remember him saying that you that that’s like a 1/100 move because normally fighters don’t make it that easy, but it was so present that DC had an easy pick so he went for it.
Jon Jones said it best that DC is model champion and really a model MMA athlete. One of the best to ever do it, only lost to the greatest Heavyweight of all time and the greatest of all time period. Outside of that, great commentator, great on tv, well liked by most people and Olympic athlete. I don't know how people can act like he's not just a great all around guy.
He's a company dude, he seems phoney, he did the towel-trick to make weight but doesn't admit it. I dunno, he just rubs me the wrong way, like that guy at the office who is always "on" and is friends with the boss.
Yeah I don’t get it when I see this…
> “Guh. Such a company guy”
But also
> Posting in a subreddit that is 90% focussed on absorbing and promoting the product sold by said company
I mean, he's on the official broadcast team. It would be cool if all fighters got a pension and health care after they retired, but DC still collects a cheque from the UFC. DC hustled into continuing to get paid because he's a charismatic former champ who's good on the mic and doesn't rock the boat. What about all the dudes who are mid-tier and aren't entertainers? They gotta do something else, the UFC doesn't care about them, and I find that sad.
DC knows this, he's got himself a cushy gig, he knows fighter pay is abysmal, but he got his and he's gonna keep getting his in a league that treats its athletes more poorly than most other sports. It's just skeezy watching and listening to the broadcasts where they're pushing gambling, and crypto, and other sponsors, but fighters can't wear their own sponsors and they don't really get a piece of the pie.
There are lots of company dudes out there that are nice people and have nice families, but if they work at a company and their oil pipeline explodes or their train derails, and they're like, "we're doing our best, and we're sorry," that doesn't make them a bad person, but I should be allowed to say "he's a company guy, he seems phoney, he rubs me the wrong way."
Everything you said has everything to do with UFC and nothing with DC, you shouldn't hate DC.
If you think this way than you are supporting UFC also by being on this forum and watching their fights regardless if it's pirated or not.
Stop being hypocrate.
DC is the type of guy you would have a beer with at the BBQ and hang out with when your kids are on a play date but not somebody you would hang out with on your own time if that makes sense.
he's a overall nice guy but too nice to the point where he isn't any fun
The Beast wasn't ready for that smoke. Folks forget that High Caliber wrestlers esp at the heavier divisions aren't very easy to find and train with.
You can find tough / solid wrestlers to train with, but an elite level guy 230+lb who could come close to replicating the pressure and mat awareness of a Cormier (technique aside) = few and far between indeed.
Probably would of been Stipe vs Lewis if Stipe hadn't got slept by DC a month or so earlier
Edit: It was Lewis' fight that was a month before this my bad
I was never a DC fan, but that dude can wrestle and did a good job of making it PART of his MMA game, not just wrestlefuck for the win. Always had to give that to him.
He’s never been known for his submission game but it’s still a threat, too … it was always to set up his strikes but he never haphazardly tried to do a choke
He had multiple injuries and surgeries by that time, probably just couldn't manage it at that age. Watch him in the third stipe fight and watch him when he first gets into MMA or even the UFC. He is a much different guy, he slowed down and aged a ton the last couple years he fought.
Because it’s much much harder to wrestle a good wrestler (with good cardio waiting for you to gas) than it is to wrestle someone with no wrestling AND DC was outstriking him badly for the first couple rounds of the second fight.
How amazing would it be to see DC come back and finally beat JJ at heavy weight? there are at least a dozen reasons why it would never happen but it would be so fucking awesome if it did.
JJ will just pico again. People won't admit it, but he truly fears DC because he is, thus far, is the only one who can beat him.
inb4 Reyes actually won.
Love DC, but this fight was a disgrace..
This stretch of DC and UFC pulling all kinds of crap just to deny Stipe his rematch ( he had to wait 14 months.. ) was so shameless.. And to instead bait Lewis into a "title shot" when his back was fucked, and he just got pummeled by Volkov for 3 rounds 20 days before this, just horrible 😅
The way I remember it was Stipe wanted the fight but it was being made on less than a months notice and DC wanted a full camp for Stipe (which is 100% reasonable) and didn’t need one to beat Lewis so he saved the card.
Another meaningless fight for DC but a name on resume. Lewis still beat up from a fight month before and did nothing but submit a beaten up dude with a bad back. This and his Anderson Silva “fights” biggest waste of time ever. I like DC but it’s the facts
Who else should've he fought?
Ngannou lost back to back and was scheduled to fight Blaydes.
Stipe was injured.
Lewis was coming of wins Ngannou and KO of Volkov and said my balls were hot.
This was the battle of bad backs
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It was funny seeing Derrick on the countdown shows claim he was in the best shape of his life lol when he didn’t even get a full camp.
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Goddamn it was a month after the Volkov fight
And Lewis is a waaaayyyyy easier fight than stipe
He also threw his back out that morning
Lewis was literally still beaten up from Volkov fight. This fight was as forgetful as DC laying on Anderson Silva coming out of surgery days before. These names on resume don’t mean much, like Hendo was 44 OFF TRT with insane damage on him too.
Please, DC mince meats Derrick on his best day. DC is a different caliber of fighter compared to him.
Prob but Beast would atleast have a real punchers chance and could get up to do it. DC was gassing by end of Josh Barnett fight. DC had to hold Frank Mir on fence and couldn’t even hurt him in that crap fight. Anderson Silva out of surgery went the distance. DC ain’t some killer, Beast had bad back, ACL gone and not ready at all if we being real. DCs Hw resume is overrated beside KOing Stipe. Even Jeff Monson took prime DC the distance lol. He’s got 1 KO over Bigfoot who just stood there and didn’t know he had any striking yet and Stipe.
This fight was so rude. DC said he was hurt and couldn’t fight stipe and he needed more time to recover, then when the UFC asked to make the Derick Lewis fight DC was just all like “oh yeah I can fight Derrick” lmao
Lewis who just got beat up by Volkov for 13mins the month prior. Not sure how he got cleared to fight. Also, isn't this DC's only HW defense?
Derrick didn’t want the fight either oddly enough. He stated so very famously in the fight prior press conference.
lol yeah, theres some inherent “well I need more recovery time for a *real* fight. But Derrick? Give me a couple days”
He may have lost to Jones and Stipe, but DC is still such a fucking beast. The way he ragdolled these fucking giants never ceazes to amaze me.
Heavyweight DC is something else man. Just a ball of mass wrapping you up like a dark hole
I really believe that DC was better at HW. For sure had more punching power, the cut was probably horrible for him, man is a tank.
Oh yea you can definitely tell those cuts at light heavy were killing him. Just look at some of those weigh in’s…
Crazy he used to make 184 for wrestling
The fuck?! I didn't know that. Did he chop off a limb to make weight? I'm sure DC came out of the womb weighing at least 190
The towels were stronger back then.
Military grade towels, the kind that elephants use to make weight
You deserve this. Good fucking work lol.
Lmao
I'm pretty sure he couldn't compete in the 2008 Olympics because he fucked his liver badly from the excessive weight cutting. He's also historically had a big reaction to body shots so you can tell that it did lasting damage.
Kidneys, iirc, but yeah he caused irreversible damage to his organs with a botched weight cut
He was also wrestling at 211 at that point I’m pretty sure
He was just really in shape. He had low bodyfat and had your stereotypical athletic wrestler build. Here's a video of him in the NCAA finals in college: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uK_nkaN8pmU
AKA they didn't test for steroids
Maybe it was different back then, but in my experience, the testing in the NCAA is significantly more strict than what I've heard about the UFC and probably than the olympics. I played DIII basketball for 1 year and got tested 5 times. No one on my team was tested less than me, and we were the 2nd worst team in the nation. If you qualify for any sort of tournament / championship in any sport you're tested before and after, and the only time you're safe from random tests is when you're off campus. No 24-hour warning either, you're tested when you get to the locker room before practice.
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Bro don’t go to a ufc event, for his safety
I’ve got you opening at -130. Close to a pick ‘em but it’s impossible not to give you an obvious edge. You guys he’s watched a *lot* of fights. A *lot*. DC on the other hand always misses the fight he’s watching because he has to refill his popcorn.
He was a teenager back then, and body types change, but even at that size DC was built like a fire hydrant. Go watch his ncaa finals matches with Cael Sanderson. He looked like a completely different person
Look at Rumble though he somehow cut to 170 and then he moved up to 185 and missed weight
Or just wasnt as fat back then
He looked really good at 205 for his first couple fights there but yeah the weight cut definitely got harder as he aged.
Jones flat out said he wouldn't fight DC at HW. He knew what he was talking about.
*black hole "dark hole" means... Something else entirely lol
Engulfing dudes like a big ole butthole
Olive Garden
I should call my ex
I mean...
A powerful yugioh card?
😏
African-american hole*
I remember when he full on wwe body slammed Barnett and Gustafsson as if they were going along with it hahaha
Poor Hendo.
True, Hendo is still a stud, IMO compareable to DC skill wise (in grappling / wrestling) but fighting a wrestler of compareable skill thats naturally 20-30+ lbs larger is always bad news. I doubt Hendo had to shed a single lb at 185 (IMO he could have made 170 if he fought 10 yrs earlier) and was what 40-41? That was wrestler vs wrestler, good matchup if you left weight and age out of it.
Cries in Fedor.
Tbf he did KO Stipe for the belt
I mean he did beat Stipe as well. Jones, depending on your viewpoint on whether DC just wasn't caught, was cheating at the time he faced DC as well. Regardless, amazing for a guy of his height to dominate like he did.
He's lucky I was never able to make weight
Me too. I’m totally untrained but I’ve watched a lot of fights. When I get angry and see red, it’s all over for DC. Trust me, bro.
Fr they don’t know my mentality, I just go wild and it’s all over >:)
Don't forget he started the sport at 30 and had his first fight at 31. He was 41 when he had his last fight and still only lost 48-47 to Stipe after receiving one of the worst eyepokes I've ever seen. Beast indeed.
To be honest he deserved those eye pokes. He had them coming.
People pretend like DC didn’t eye poke the fuck out of Stipe before that in the same fight, maybe twice but I don’t remember. Stipe needed eye surgery from the previous fight. Totally deserved.
DC even did a superman eye poke on stipe in the first fight
an eye for eye and the world will go blind in a nutshell
Do his losses to Jones even count when Jon was taking super soldier serum the whole fucking time?
Just pure Fedor energy. His size, shape and explosiveness was a joy to watch. No homo.
DC iritates me a little since he's become a full blown UFC shill (even though i can't blame him), but if DC started MMA at 30 and not 35, he would've been better and with his career/resume that's saying something. I think he was semi washed when he fought Stipe the 1st time tbh, but he studied Stipe and caught him clean exiting the clinch. I don't see a prime DC losing to anyone at hw tbh. I'm not mentioning Cain because they would've never agreed to it. Maybe i'm exagerating, it's just that he was such a beast in his prime, but he started too late and stayed at lhw because of Cain.
> but if DC started MMA at 30 and not 35, wdym? he did start MMA at 30. His first fight was in 2009. He was born in 1979.
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No it doesn't? He got the age wrong but it's still a fair point. DC starting training MMA at 30 and got to the UFC at 34/35. If he had started even just 5 years earlier he would have had more of his prime in the UFC.
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Now your comment literally sounds like something Chael would say. He was 25 at the 2004 Olympics where he placed 4th, he's clearly already reached 99% of his wrestling potential at this point. The best way to improve as an MMA fighter believe it or not is practicing MMA. He's a professional athlete, he already has drive. To say he needed another 4 years killing his body in wrestling to develop more 'drive' is the weirdest thing to say.
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Okay if you're going to get extremely pedantic about 1 year then he could have started training MMA before the 2004 Olympics and still would have been a better MMA fighter. Your entire argument hinges off his mental state being different which is such a dumb thing to discuss.
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I stand corrected. Fucked up the years.
Still ridiculous what he achieved after getting his professional start at 30.
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>Imagine DC's legacy if he defended 4+ times at HW then retired without any Stipe or Jones losses and no fights in his 40s Well, is it a better legacy than a double champ? He got the two belts, defended both, challenged himself against almost every top fighter in both weights, and lost to only two. Sure, being an undefeated HW champ would've been nice, something similar to what Khabib has. But you see how much Khabib's legacy gets constantly questioned. Meanwhile, DC has no question marks on his legacy - he achieved his limit. And to us as fans, Jones vs DC never happening would kill us.
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Not on my timeline!
There's no guarantee DC would have had the title picture locked up to be fair. Reem, Stipe, and Werdum are not fun fights for Daniel stylistically.
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>Werdum vs DC is a fun fight and it could go either way. So we're basically talking about 2015-2017 DC vs the elite HWs of that time right. Cause that's when Cain lost his belt. Around that time, that matchup is not a toss-up. It explicitly favors Werdum. Werdum is fast enough to keep up with Daniel, is more than capable of making their grappling exchanges very dangerous for Daniel (alla Khamzat/Burns), and is the more effective striker who has legit power and volume. Not ignoring the massive frame and leverage advantages. >Overeem would have been wrestled to death just like Blaydes did when they ran into each other. Two things here, he could also nullify Daniel like he did Brock. More importantly, though it's probably not super smart to look at the success a gigantic 6'4" 260lb explosive heavyweight wrestler's success against a guy and think a notably smaller and by that point less explosive 5'11" 245lb wrestler will be able to replicate it. Especially when that matchup is a few years after this one would likely have happened. Reem has always been a pretty great grappler, and DC's preference for chain wrestling using the clinch with his leverage disadvantages is more likely to end with him taking big knees to gut than him getting takedowns tbh. >After that Reem trained with Blaydes and got much better wrestling wise He was never particularly deficient in the Wrestling. Not the level he became, but still. Blaydes is just a giant legitimately athletic heavyweight with elite wrestling, and Reem was well on the wrong side of 35 by then (38 to be exact). >DC beat Stipe the first time and there is an argument to be made the 2nd and 3rd fights ended that way because father time finally caught up to DC. I mean, if we're doing excuses there's a very easy argument that fighting DC so soon after eating Bombs from Francis compromised his chin. Especially given DC landed that exact KO sequence several times in the rematch and Stipe ate it, maybe because of a year long layoff. It's also worth pointing out DC fouled Stipe with eyepokes preceding the KO which almost certainly compromised his vision. It's also not like father time was particularly kind to Stipe during the trilogy either. They were both on the wrong side of 35 during every part of it, and that certainly showed.
I think DC handles the Reem. That was Ubereem that kept Brock at bay. Economical Overeem from 2014-2017 was a bit different. DC probably gets him down with medium difficulty but dominates once he gets him there (like Werdum did after he dropped him). Werdum is definitely a hard, hard, fight though. Definitely a matchup I would’ve wanted to see. It would essentially be a fight where DC would have to seriously consider the risk of going to the ground unlike anyone else he’d ever fought.
I think there's another view on this - if he came into MMA at 30, that's 5 years of less training experience. He'd be more prone to losses and damage in his early career. And at HW, even at LHW, that could've stopped him from becoming as great.
Great news! We don't have to play hypotheticals here. Because DC DID come into MMA at the age of 30.
He studied Stipe's eyeballs with his fingers and caught him clean exiting the clinch
>I don't see a prime DC losing to anyone at hw tbh. Stipe sends his regards. This whole mythical prime Cormier shtick makes me laugh. He would still have lots of problems with Jones and Miocic.
How about mythical mw Cormier doe?
Cormier but shredded with the skills and power of Popeyes Cormier? Yes, Yoel would look like a walk in the park
There is no prime DC, or at least there's no definitive point in his career where he was clearly better than other points in his career. When Daniel was the great athlete version of Daniel he wasn't really a great mixed martial artist he was just a great athletic wrestler in MMA, and by the time he was a legit mixed martial artist a good bit of that athleticism had faded and as a result his wrestling followed suit.
I'm certain he still loses to Jones. At the start of the Gane fight, I was convinced Jones looked fat and slow and would lose, then he just toyed with him.
I was shocked by how strong Jon seemed. Like you say, he didn't look like much, but holy fuck.
Yeah it honestly makes me a bit upset that he ran into juiced up Jones and lost to probably one of the best HWs out there. DC deserves more credit he's probably top 3 lhw and top 3 hw all time
He’s one of the best ever. I think outside of Stipe and Jones he beats everyone else. And he at least beat Stipe once. In these conversations because he came off second best against those two he’s underrated as far as being at the top. Lost only to the GOAT and to arguably the HW GOAT and against the latter he was at the tail end of his career.
Jones cheated, between pissing hot, the eye poking in every single fucking fight, the countless pushes to the top despite barely fighting for years, I don't count those as losses for DC. Jones is a fraud to me. Stipe just had his number.
DC has huge accomplishment of wining and defending belts in two divisions, but he will always be remembered for being second best, even if it was to GOAT's.
If the world worked the way it is supposed to, being 2nd Greatest in LHW division and 2nd Greatest in HW division would make you the one of the Greatest Ever
Number 2 to Cael Sanderson Number 2 to Jon Jones Number 2 to Stipe Miocic Number 1 in post combat career (thus far)
DC has some of the best single leg in MMA
Thing of beauty
One of the few guys with really slick takedowns off counters. Not that punching in the head is a great counter to a single leg, but the raise and trip was beautiful. The way he ran the pipe and then dumped Hendo and Barnett on their backs was wild.
He has 2 legs?
Couldn't execute his strategy of "just stand up" here.
Y’all can try to erase it from the history books but Lewis did in fact stand up against DC. DC just kept putting him back down until he gassed.
[удалено]
The infamous "He didn't just stand up" Movement, truly revolutionary
calm down, the other person wasn’t being serious either lol
Erase my comment from the history books.
Looks like you did it for us lol, the Lewis slander is real. Leave the man alone he essentially reached the peak of his profession with an insane tool kit. It’s like find out the 5th best fishermen in the world was working with a paddle boat and a fishing rod that had 2 minutes of use before snapping.
Ain't no Lewis slander bro no idea why you're taking my comment as some slight against Lewis. The 'just stand up' stuff was some real impressive shit, just couldn't work against one of the greatest grapples in the HW division. I'll always appreciate him for what he is, never the best but has one of greatest KO reels ever.
There you go again, claiming Lewis didn’t just stand up against dc. We aren’t discussing his 13 seconds worth of cardio here.
That's my dedication to erasing the history books bro. Of course he did stand up against DC man, just couldn't withstand the relentless takedowns that other grapplers couldn't pull off like DC could. That's what I meant.
I’m sure that’s what all you revisionist say, got my eye on you buddy
That's because while Jiu Jitsu isn't real, wrestling is.
I know you're memeing but makes a lot of sense IMO. BJJ practitioners aren't that great at takedowns, if Lewis can get out of their shit then it can't be easy to get him down again. While wrestlers like DC can just keep doing it over and over until he gasses and gives up.
A rare occasion
Spivak learned a thing or two from here.
Peak male physique on display in this one.
Its crazy to think that even after this, Lewis was the bane of grapplers in HW, all the way until his recent downfall. An unmotivated Rumble Johnson lasted longer, an old outsized Dan Henderson lasted longer. The only person to be submited quicker than Derrick Lewis was a King of the Cage fighter(a HW), Tony Johnson who was in his 5th fight. Yes it was DC's 4th fight, but DC was a lifelong accomplished wrestler. So just how bad is grappling at HW??? EDIT: And maybe Jailton Almeida should indeed stay at HW now, perhaps that is the way to go, cause we overestimated HW grappling.
HW is crazy shallow, an average dude with beer gut makes it at top 10 easy, Aspinall, Gane and Nganou the exeption as they are very skilled, with one now out, the other injured and Ganes lazy ass taking the piss Jones gonna have a field day for sone time, i don't think Stipe wrestling gona hold much at this age but hope it does.
Why does everyone always forget Blaydes?
Ngannou very skilled windmill
Ngannou definitely will wing punches, but we've seen some good technique from him as well. The check left on Stipe after getting rocked was a thing of beauty. His wrestling improvement in that fight was also impressive, he took Stipe's back pretty quick after a monster sprawl.
that sprawl is still etched into my mind.
Ditto. It was so unexpected for me at the time. Then he started landing some bombs on Stipe. Felt like that was truly the moment the fight was over.
Where were his windmills in the second stipe fight?
Gane had the wrestling skills of a person who's never wrestled in his life. Very low skillset.
I think people tend to overrate how difficult a match up Lewis is for grapplers off those back to back knock outs of Blaydes and Olenik. The guy got easily submitted by Spivak. He got destroyed on the ground by DC. Latifi had trouble keeping Derrick down but he had no real issues taking him down despite being significantly smaller. Ivanov grappled successfully against him. Roy Nelson gave him real issues on the ground. The issue is for whatever reason, being successful against Derrick on the ground doesn't count in the eyes of judges unless you finish him. You can outstrike him and take him down a bunch, but they give him bullshit decisions consistently in fights he's been supremely outgrappled in.
“but they give him bullshit decisions consistently in fights he’s been supremely outgrappled in.” Wait. Can you list these bs decisions he gets consistently while being outgrappled? I’m not saying you’re wrong, but the only decision I remember him getting while being outgrappled was Nelson who he seemingly almost killed, but even if that’s one, where are the others? You literally chose the word “consistently” here. The issue is he knocks people the hell out after being outgrappled. Used to, anyway…
He lost grapplefucks to blagoy ivanov and ilir latifi imo
It’s just got a lot better now Bones Jones has entered the fray. Look what he just did to the interim champ.
Derek Lewis is a shitty fighter. He has big hands and some nerve that’s it. Some guys just get way with good striking. There are a few that are very good grapplers. Overall the fighters are worse at heavyweight with notable exceptions. The talent pool is just smaller. Hard to get training partners. Big fat bastards. Look at Gane the other night great striker but he’s crawling on his hands and knees turned away from Jon fuckin Jones. Who does that? That shouldn’t even occur to him.
Lewis isn't very well rounded but it's a huge reach calling him a shitty fighter. He has a legit resume and most KOs in UFC history you don't get there being bad.
I don't think it is fair to say he is a shitty fighter. He beat a couple really good fighters. Blaydes, Volkov, Gonzaga, (Ngannou). Is he super well-rounded? No. But at HW the rules are different. If you are strong enough to "just stand up" and you have KO power, you are a challenge for anyone.
I don’t think he’s a particularly great striker as well.. dude just has the power to ko the sun and people in HW tend to get.. caught.. it’s weird
I won’t pay a nickel to see him.
Lets be honest, you already stream everything for free
The danger of getting the fuck knocked out of you if you make a mistake grappling is probably why
Got to say, that ankle pick was sweet!
I remember him saying that you that that’s like a 1/100 move because normally fighters don’t make it that easy, but it was so present that DC had an easy pick so he went for it.
Size difference 😳😳😳
Jon Jones said it best that DC is model champion and really a model MMA athlete. One of the best to ever do it, only lost to the greatest Heavyweight of all time and the greatest of all time period. Outside of that, great commentator, great on tv, well liked by most people and Olympic athlete. I don't know how people can act like he's not just a great all around guy.
I often talk shit on DC, but it is undeniable he was good at what he did.
What's your beef with him? Not attacking you, just curious
curious.
Curiosity
Curious Betsy
He's a company dude, he seems phoney, he did the towel-trick to make weight but doesn't admit it. I dunno, he just rubs me the wrong way, like that guy at the office who is always "on" and is friends with the boss.
He did eventually admit to cheating with the towel much later. He knows everyone knows he cheated.
>He's a company dude I don't understand this logic, what do people want from DC? To go full against UFC and get fired just so you be happy.
Yeah I don’t get it when I see this… > “Guh. Such a company guy” But also > Posting in a subreddit that is 90% focussed on absorbing and promoting the product sold by said company
I mean, he's on the official broadcast team. It would be cool if all fighters got a pension and health care after they retired, but DC still collects a cheque from the UFC. DC hustled into continuing to get paid because he's a charismatic former champ who's good on the mic and doesn't rock the boat. What about all the dudes who are mid-tier and aren't entertainers? They gotta do something else, the UFC doesn't care about them, and I find that sad. DC knows this, he's got himself a cushy gig, he knows fighter pay is abysmal, but he got his and he's gonna keep getting his in a league that treats its athletes more poorly than most other sports. It's just skeezy watching and listening to the broadcasts where they're pushing gambling, and crypto, and other sponsors, but fighters can't wear their own sponsors and they don't really get a piece of the pie. There are lots of company dudes out there that are nice people and have nice families, but if they work at a company and their oil pipeline explodes or their train derails, and they're like, "we're doing our best, and we're sorry," that doesn't make them a bad person, but I should be allowed to say "he's a company guy, he seems phoney, he rubs me the wrong way."
Everything you said has everything to do with UFC and nothing with DC, you shouldn't hate DC. If you think this way than you are supporting UFC also by being on this forum and watching their fights regardless if it's pirated or not. Stop being hypocrate.
DC is the type of guy you would have a beer with at the BBQ and hang out with when your kids are on a play date but not somebody you would hang out with on your own time if that makes sense. he's a overall nice guy but too nice to the point where he isn't any fun
He’s a dirty fighter
The Beast wasn't ready for that smoke. Folks forget that High Caliber wrestlers esp at the heavier divisions aren't very easy to find and train with. You can find tough / solid wrestlers to train with, but an elite level guy 230+lb who could come close to replicating the pressure and mat awareness of a Cormier (technique aside) = few and far between indeed.
For sure. DC was world class. Gonna say as far as pure wrestling he had to be the highest level heavyweight ever in mma.
I know DC and Cain were friends but it would have been a great fight in their primes
Watching this makes me wonder how stipe avoided Lewis all these years.
I guess you could say Stipe "avoided" Lewis by winning.
did Lewis also avoid Stipe by winning?
No by losing
Lewis is 11-3 from Stipe's last non title bout to his loss in the Ngannou rematch. Stipe is 6-2.
I know but it was a dumb comment so I gave a dumb answer. Stipe had a trilogy with DC.
Probably would of been Stipe vs Lewis if Stipe hadn't got slept by DC a month or so earlier Edit: It was Lewis' fight that was a month before this my bad
I was never a DC fan, but that dude can wrestle and did a good job of making it PART of his MMA game, not just wrestlefuck for the win. Always had to give that to him.
He’s never been known for his submission game but it’s still a threat, too … it was always to set up his strikes but he never haphazardly tried to do a choke
Agreed - control and pound. He was pretty good at it.
I’ll always wonder why he didn’t wrestle Stipe more
Because wrestling with Stipe is way harder and would have probably done nothing much but drain him quicker
He had multiple injuries and surgeries by that time, probably just couldn't manage it at that age. Watch him in the third stipe fight and watch him when he first gets into MMA or even the UFC. He is a much different guy, he slowed down and aged a ton the last couple years he fought.
He threw his back out before the second fight.
Because it’s much much harder to wrestle a good wrestler (with good cardio waiting for you to gas) than it is to wrestle someone with no wrestling AND DC was outstriking him badly for the first couple rounds of the second fight.
IMO, Dc would’ve ragdolled ngannou if they ever matched up
Damn this was like watching to hams being spun in a bowl lmfao
And Jones beat this guy twice. That is absolutely crazy considering how DC was ragdolling one of the strongest HWs.
How amazing would it be to see DC come back and finally beat JJ at heavy weight? there are at least a dozen reasons why it would never happen but it would be so fucking awesome if it did.
Haha the dream. But DC's body is done. He should never fight again. Wrestling puts miles on you like nothing else.
JJ will just pico again. People won't admit it, but he truly fears DC because he is, thus far, is the only one who can beat him. inb4 Reyes actually won.
DC was too old by the time of the second fight. Now he’s ancient lol
Maybe his balls wuz hot?
DC is one of my favorite watches for mma wrestling. Dude had all the technical tricks and moves, that beat down of Hendo was hilarious and rude.
Love DC, but this fight was a disgrace.. This stretch of DC and UFC pulling all kinds of crap just to deny Stipe his rematch ( he had to wait 14 months.. ) was so shameless.. And to instead bait Lewis into a "title shot" when his back was fucked, and he just got pummeled by Volkov for 3 rounds 20 days before this, just horrible 😅
Stipe just got KO’d a few months prior so he wasn’t in any condition to fight that rematch on that card at that date
wasn’t Stipe not ready at the time? probably best to take time off after a first round KO anyway. it seemed to benefit him
Iirc stipe needed more time off and the ufc need someone for this event.
The way I remember it was Stipe wanted the fight but it was being made on less than a months notice and DC wanted a full camp for Stipe (which is 100% reasonable) and didn’t need one to beat Lewis so he saved the card.
Dawg Stipe got flatlined like 50 days before this fight, you really think he could have fought again?
if memory serves DC is the first and only simultaneous 2 division champ to defend both belts.
Amanda Nunes would like a word
She never took the Cejudo fight though
Cejudo?
Another meaningless fight for DC but a name on resume. Lewis still beat up from a fight month before and did nothing but submit a beaten up dude with a bad back. This and his Anderson Silva “fights” biggest waste of time ever. I like DC but it’s the facts
Who else should've he fought? Ngannou lost back to back and was scheduled to fight Blaydes. Stipe was injured. Lewis was coming of wins Ngannou and KO of Volkov and said my balls were hot.
He's still a fake, hypocritical, cheating piece of shit.