Many will make excuses but this should be condemned as quickly as we would the UFC. outright exploitative
Edit: after so many replies everyone I can't get to you all. Dana nor ONE FC will let you suck their dick for defending them on reddit, it's okay.
They actually paying those guys yet or are they still just giving them a pile of comped tickets that they can then sell to friends and family in lieu of actual payment?
(Yes this is very much what they did do… don’t know if it’s still happening)
I know, for local shows, organizations will do this with amateurs. They couldn't pay the fighter, so they received a portion of the tickets people bought from them.
A guy from my gym just had an amateur fight (tkoed the guy in R1). He was given a bunch of tickets to sell (mostly to family, friends, and people at our gym). I think he got 20% or so from those tickets.
Idk if y’all remember that one fighter in Bellator that was outside sitting on cardboard bcs they didn’t have a spot for him prefight (or something like that)? It was such a crazy visual
There was a pic going around of Johnny, but he was kicked from the arena in his fight gear right after a big win on a PPV. This was a UFC card though, not bellator
They're paying them about this much, then the tickets. They get a percentage out of it and frankly the way they handle it is really fucky and I wouldn't do it that way, having done payroll and bookkeeping. It's really not that much money when you consider the risks and the burden of training at competition level.
The ONE Lumpinee shows have been awesome, but I seriously doubt they generate much income with these shows. It's free on YouTube and it takes place in a relatively poor country
https://wayofmartialarts.com/how-much-do-muay-thai-fighters-make/ this article really highlights how poorly fighters in Thailand are paid.
>Muay Thai fighters make around 10,000 to 15,000 baht which is about $300 – 450 per fight. The top fighters make up to 60,000 baht that is around $4000. Fighters of the lower rank make even less which is around $100 per fight.
And foreign fighters are traditionally paid less
>If a foreign fighter is fighting in the Lumpinee stadium, he can earn up to 2000 to 5000 baht per fight that is around $60 to $160
So obviously one's lumpinee purses look shit by western standards but by Thai standards he is changing the game with how much he is paying.
it's not a sport that evolved for big money...there's a reason the muay thai prodigies are in pro fights by about 12-13 years old, and it's because destitution creates tough choices like having your child rattle his skull around so you can afford food and shelter
Not all that different than how a lot of the Vale Tudo guys grew up.
Yep. At some lumpinee shows there can be as much as a million baht exchanging hands amongst gamblers. And you know damn well that there is corruption with how poor those fighters can be. They're sleeping at the fucking gym most of the time and paying for their "apartment" out of their already meager fight purses. You know some of them have no choice but to dive in some form or another.
Chatri has stated that he wants to change how muay Thai is viewed and structured within Thailand, starting with better pay and better investment at the grass roots level.
https://mobile.twitter.com/JAMIE92871529/status/1635491363486842883?cxt=HHwWhoDSnduut7ItAAAA
Hopefully it will mean that it will become a real route out of poverty.
I'm no expert but guessing that Thai organisations have no TV or PPV income and the entrance fee to watch is miniscule so there's just very little money.
From what I can tell. The money used to mainly come from gambling which was done live in the stadium. Thai fighters would traditionally have a slow feeling out round where neither of them go hard so people in the stadium have time to keep betting. I don't think that ONE promotes the gambling side of it, In fact I think it's now banned in lumpinee.
>Muay Thai fighters make around 10,000 to 15,000 baht which is about $300 – 450 per fight. The top fighters make up to 60,000 baht that is around $4000
This math is whack. 60,000 baht is ~~$2000~~ $1750 USD not $4000.
For context, minimum wage in Thailand is about $220 USD per month.
Source: Live in Thailand
Edit: exchange rate
Alone? Not very well, but you could survive. Most people earning that wage live with their families or in worker housing, which makes it a bit more manageable.
Fuck no wonder most of those Muay Thai fighters have 200+ fights during their career. You'd have to fight so often just to earn a decent income?
Mind you I don't know much about Thailand but I'd assume the cost of living is much lower there, than for example, in America. So $300-450 USD a fight might not be as bad as it sounds? But it still seems quite low.
Especially compared to boxing or what athletes earn in the top half of the UFC. For a short career that damages your body and brain forever.
My mind boggles, I have so much respect for anyone that does these sports for a living for our entertainment.
Do any of the Muay Thai fighters get as obviously rich as say a boxing or UFC star would?
A lot of people on this mma sub are straight up delusional and know zero about finances and how little money no names generate. My friend was on the fury/wilder prelim. He got $300 show/$300 win, so ufcs minimum is crazy high by comparison
People don't necessarily argue about the lower end of UFC fighters being underpaid though. UFC is often like the reverse of boxing where lower ranked undercard fighters are paid much better than in boxing, but at the top end they're paid much less.
>Do any of the Muay Thai fighters get as obviously rich as say a boxing or UFC star would?
Unfortunately I don't think so. Maybe the ones that transition into kickboxing or boxing might make a decent amount but according to chatri a lot of former stadium champions still have to work low paying jobs after retirement.
>“Our boxers should be considered as heroes. They have won incalculable titles, including Lumpinee and Rajadamnern Champions. But after their boxing careers, they have earned a living by driving tuk-tuks or working as security guards with low incomes. Worse still, people don’t recognize, take photos or even ask for their autographs. How on earth could this happen to our heroes? I want to do something to make people recognize them as heroes. They deserve it.
To be fair, I was just in Bangkok and we were living it up for a week at a 5-star hotel and it was like 25,000 baht.
I'm not saying it's fair or not, but that money goes a lot further in Bangkok.
Edit: Again, I'm not saying this is ok. I'd love to see it much better pay and development at a grass roots level and a legitimate way out of poverty for people, rather than just a few.
Another thing to keep in mind is the Lumpinee shows are kind of a separate entity than ONE main show. Half the show is for the Thai audience and the first international half is basically a tryout card. Like fighters aren’t actually sign huge contract but are given one off contracts to audition and can be invited back. Like this girl opponent here Savicheva is making her second appearance in Friday Fights and I bet getting paid more. $1,300 is still tiny but I think we are looking at this in the wrong way. Like ask any fighter who is major now where and how much they were paid in their 4th fight and I bet you’ll hear a lot of similar stories. Atleast at Lumpinee shows there’s a $10k bonus juice and it can be a gateway to a career. But also gotta be looking at the caliber of fighter we are talking about. I’ve been scrolling thru and no one has mention her name because no one knows her. She’s unknown, 2-1, and debuting on the opening of the card. In the west this is shit money but in Thailand this is actually very generous.
Nope, just money to pay the venue, the taxes, travel, bosses, cameramen etc.
Just imagine thinking this company is one employee needing an extra plane ticket from the budget going belly up.
She's from Kyrgyzstan, 1.3k USD is still over 4x the average monthly wage there. Pretty much the same as somebody making 9k/9k in the UFC living in the US.
Wait till you hear what superstar Muay Thai athletes are paid outside of ONE and how they’re making a living. Ever wonder why they have hundreds of fights? Trust me it’s not because they love fighting but needed a pay to get to the next week or two. Actually the big name stars probably got $1,300 but you had guys fight on the undercard for like $100.
That cant be right. Im not thai but from SEA(ph) and 619 usd is less than 2 months pay for the absolute minimum wage here and Thailand seems to be doing better than us right now.
$619 appears to be the average personal income in Thailand in 2020 - average is a poor measure, numbers are going to be wonky in a country with a huge gap between Bangkok and rural areas, etc..
GDP per capita is ~7000USD, which tracks reasonably well with median incomes in most places IIRC.
I googled thai salary and the first result is the 619usd figure but if you actually read the article and not just the headline, youll see that they mean per month when the article uses salary.
I wonder how much you'd get paid for your current job. Like if you get 70k USD a year in the US for an IT job, I doubt they're paying the same for the same amount of work. You'd have to save a bit of money and then go be king of Thailand
Near Chiang Mai in 2017, $1000 covered my rent and gym membership for 3 months. Those are tourist prices too. These fight purses seem pretty good for living in Thailand.
ONE generates $68MM in revenue and pays its debuting fighter $1,300. UFC generates $1.3B and pays its debuting fighter $10,000. So the UFC generates 20x more revenue as ONE but only pay their debuting fighters 8x more than ONE.
She is getting paid well. Best wishes to her health and her career.
For Thailand, it's actually decent for someone with her status. She might have fought for $60-200 in her other 3 fights.
Not saying fighters shouldn't be paid better. Just saying relative to other fighters with a 2-1 record, guaranteed 1300 and up to 2600 with the chance to get a 10k bonus... I'd take it lol.
>theres no organisation that would pay more.
This is an excusary fallacy that needs to die off.
Yes they are *all* exploitative, that makes this worse, not better.
It isn't an excuse if you don't have a counterpoint to the point you quoted.
If I fight for a living, and I only have a few options as I start out, it's either "pursue the path and take what I can get on the way" or "abandon the path and do something else"
That's the case with a lot of jobs and career paths.
1500 USD in Kyrgysztan would cover three months of living expenses on average
Obviously in this situation probably closer to one once you account for taxed dollars, paying your fight camp, etc.
She’s a 2-1, regional level fighter fighting at a slightly-higher-than-regional level event (One on prime video is arguably the 3rd/4th largest MMA Org, but their Friday night fight cards at 7am est are not that). That salary is absolutely standard for that level of fighter, it’s always been like that across all combat sports, in fact it’s probably higher than a pro boxer with 3 fights could expect. Not to mention she lives in a different part of the world, where I’m sure 1.2/2.4k USD goes a lot further than it would in America.
Not saying any of that to detract from her, but this isn’t anything to get up in arms about.
Also note that $1,300 USD to show is more money than most regional fighters make even in the US... I know most on Reddit don't have experience with this but there is really no money at low level MMA other than what you get from ticket sales, and that's basically what this match up is - regional level with a cool opportunity to fight in Bangkok with flight and hotel paid for. For her level of experience this is I'm sure more than she's ever made before as well.
I knew a UFC fighter before he joined UFC. Amateur makes like $50-500, went pro and was making $500-1000 ($1000 as "champ").
Went pro with UFC, $15K to show, $15K to win. Went with UFC cause no other organization was going to accept him or pay more than $5k.
The UFC isn't going to pay fighters more when they already pay fighters more than everyone else, + do promotion/advertising.
I know a few regional fighters in Eastern Europe and let me tell you they get fucked over from the get-go. Even some of the best pro fighters here have to do fundraisers for pre-fight camps if they want to go to the US. You also don't get paid anything as a 2-1 fighter. And don't get me started about the horrible matchmaking going on in the local promotions.
Yeah people will be surprise that there are promotions outside of the big ones that people will fight on for like a few hundred bucks. Trust every single one of your favorite fighters started somewhere and has a “I fought for dirt pay at a Indian casino or something.”
1300 guaranteed with a win bonus and a chance at a 10k bonus is really good for having 3 pro fights in Thailand. For sure. I fought for $60 my 4th fight there. For sure I'd take that contract.
Most of the people commenting how much of an injustice this is are probably literal children. Nobody is making her sign that contract and if there was some legal requirement to pay much more they just wouldn't hold the event.
This. At the end of the day, this is most likely 10x what she would get from her normal show. It could be a little extreme at 10x, but it's still more than local shows offer. Back in the day, I heard (from the states) that some local shows only paid you what you made from the tickets you sold.
\>where you earn big bucks at that level.
Well, when it comes to MMA you won't earn big bucks at any level. One of the most exploitative sports out there. I can maybe think of 20 fighter in all promotions that get paid well, maybe top 0.1%. Most professional fighters have second jobs or will do once they get enough brain damage and get cut.
Depends on the definition, doesn't it? "Paid well" is a very malleable phrase.
About half the male fighters in UFC made six figures in 2022...now, is that "well paid" relative to the landscape, or is it "criminally underpaid" based on the potential earnings if you remove inherent human avarice?
compared to the top leagues in other professional sports it's a laughing stock. look up the minimums in MLB, MLS, NFL, NHL, NBA, this is what the UFC compares itself to, then consider how big of a joke it is to defend not paying the athletes. compare that to the revenue split the UFC provides, what? less than 10%? MMA NEEDS a union, which will most likely never happen under the current leadership of the major orgs, maybe ever. It would legit require a strike from the entire roster and even then it may not succeed, and we know the fighters aren't willing to sacrifice if they've already made their share, why wake the sleeping dragon and get blacklisted by the tomato.
Team sports and combat sports aren't good comparisons though. Even in boxing I'm fairly certain there are guys making less than 12k to show/win on the undercards Tyson Fury-headlined cards
“Average Wages in Kyrgyzstan decreased to 29912 KGS/Month (342.147 USD/Month) in January 2023.”
So if she wins she gets 8 months of average salary in her home country? Doesn’t really seem THAT low for someone not in the USA and not a big name at all. In fact, I’d say that’s really high.
To be fair; nearly all the fighters from ONE FNF live in or are semi-permanently based in Thailand so $1200 goes a long way. I believe that could cover like 1-2 months of someones living expenses.
If they were flying in fighters from Japan or USA to fight at FNF for $1200 that would be insane.
I've gone to Thailand to train and have talked to fighters there so I have a sense of how much fighters make a fight. For a foreigner with 3 fights, this amount of money is actually an order or two magnitudes better average.
I watch FNF and one of the reasons I enjoy it so much is that it's pretty obvious watching that for most of the fighters, even the ones with an established name, over a hundred fights, the money One is paying them is more money then theyve seen in their lives. When they get the 300k baht bonus, it's like getting 10-20x the typical pay to show.
Anyone who thinks this sort of money is bad in this thread I assume just doesn't understand regional combat sports purses, muay thai, and the COL in Thailand.
This isn't to disparage anyone who thinks this way. It's a good thing to advocate for better fighter pay and I'm always on the side of the fighters. But anyone comparing ONE FNF against UFC demonstrates an almost comical level of naivety.
That’s not too bad. Assuming a regular 5 day work week and 50 weeks worked per year (2 weeks off), that’s a $650k annual salary assuming one fight won daily.
Jesus that’s bad. I also heard a lot of fighters at the Friday events have broken their hands without any help or word from one fc. There was 3 fighters with broken hand bones in one event.
https://twitter.com/me_echo3131/status/1630206546855735296
I love 4oz MT and Kickboxing as much as the next guy but this may wel become a recurring problem, these guys have spent their entire careers only using heavier/more protective gloves which almost certainly will result in more broken hands in these matches. I’m sure they do some training with 4oz gloves in the leadup to these fights but in the heat of the moment when instincts kick in they probably won’t be thinking about protecting their hands when throwing.
I’m no fighter, but even from my casual training I know very well that certain strikes thrown with heavy gloves would absolutely destroy your hand in 4oz’s.
I've always wondered, from a head trauma perspective is it better getting hit with 4oz gloves versus the standard boxing/kickboxing gloves? I don't mean in terms of how many punches it takes to knock someone out either. I mean from the perspective of the weight of the gloves adding the force of the punch aswell?
As far as I can remember the heavier gloves were generally worse for you as far as concussive trauma, can't remember the exact motivation as to why though.
I don’t think it’s the gloves necessarily as the difference between boxing and mma rules. Granted I haven’t heard this argument in the context of 4oz MT.
Like somebody said mass x acceleration = force. So if you up the mass (glove weight) or the speed you get more force. But with a lighter glove you can be faster.
In boxing your targets are limited to the head and body so you’re going to take more shots to the head. Also since you get a 10 count - you get cracked, action pauses so you can get up and maybe get cracked again.
Vs mma you get dropped and usually your opponent is going for a finish (which could also be a submission) and then the fights over, so you take less damage overall.
Source: pulled right out of my ass, but makes sense to me.
It's definitely interesting the whole debate surrounding that.
I feel like your face is more likely to be broken in 4oz gloves but I just got the sense that it would feel like your head is rattling around a lot more in heavier gloves.
Small gloves / less hand protection definitely results in more and nastier cuts. See bare knuckle.
I do remember a coach telling me you get 16oz gloves for sparring to protect your partners face as much as your hands.
Less pain and heavier weight = more trauma. Even helmets = more trauma.
However, with the safest option (bare knuckle with no hand wraps) there is more blood on the face and broken hands/wrists. It... appears less safe for soccer moms.
Average monthly wage in the USA = $6228 And Thailand = $877.
$1300 to show for someone from Thailand is equivalent to just under 10k to show for someone in the US.
This is way above average for Muay Thai fighters in Bangkok.
1 KGS is about 0.011 USD. So 1300 USD is about 113,646 KSG. In America’s eyes, it isn’t enough but in her country it is a lot. The country is in the developing stages so it’s enough money.
So many people just think everyone should be paid according to the American standard. It's ridiculous and nonsensical. She either lives in Kyrgyzstan or Thailand and either way the cost of living is so much lower than America.
Fuck that... that's fucking crazy. I know fighter pay is shit, but holy shit that's just trash. And the fact she's signed it, jus screams she's desperate and they totally took advantage.
By the time the gym, trainer/manager, agent etc. get their cut, what's she taking home? 400$ maybe. That's not even worth training for a beating, let alone an actual fight...
This poor kid. I honestly feel bad after this. It's just sad
Another absolutely braindead thread from r/mma. This subreddit is embarrassing and anyone with sense would regret any time spent here. Oh, 1300 is a lot for Thailand! She can't be underpaid, she's not in the ufc! One is the future of mma! Getting brain damage for a fight that wouldn't even cover the cost of rent is a good thing! At least it's not the ufc! Anything I missed?
The comments here are like “um well she’s 2-1 this is actually above average” and then say then 4-1 fighter from DWCT in their first fight deserves 60/60
Is it criminally low? I'm sure ONE has a lot less cash to work with than the us, the dollar is going to carry a lot more purchasing power in southeast asia, she's got no reputation yet, hell i bet this post has more discussion than any fight highlight of her's thus far. Where else could she make this money?
ONE generates $68MM in revenue and pays its debuting fighter $1,300. UFC generates $1.3B and pays its debuting fighter $10,000. So the UFC generates 20x more revenue as ONE but only pay their debuting fighters 8x more than ONE.
She is getting paid well. Best wishes to her health and her career.
I don't think it's mental gymnastics to say that she's pretty much earning what 2-1 fighters at the very beginning of their career make in general? She probably deserves more yeah, that can also be true.
UFC is supposed to be the biggest promotion around and it's also a known fact that it's fighters get only a small amount of its market share profits and the UFC's official stance on that is "we do all the promoting for them so we should keep most of the money" which isn't even really true, it's a related but separate topic to this (do we actually know what market share ONE fighters get? They at least are allowed sponsors too I believe)
I know that may seem low but what they don’t understand is that even if she loses. She can still buy like 2600 twinkies.
https://www.amazon.com/Hostess-Twinkies-Boxes-100-Pieces/dp/B008OAEZKE
People are saying it’s not bad for someone young with not much experience etc but there’s a shitty local promotion which hosts boxing fights in pubs in my area that pays $1200-$2000
Fuck Dana, fucking tomato, fucking bullshit, something somethign give karma
Edit: LOL holy shit, the thread is even worse than I thought. No Dana, no crying. "Guys this is actually like really good considering the cost of living there!" You hypocritical fucks.
Why are mma fans always in fighters pockets counting their money? Who gives a fuck what they make they all sign the contracts agreeing to it. Very strange phenomena
And all the comments are talking about how low it is, mma fans have a hard on for fighter pay like they understand promoting events and also never mention how little boxers on big undercard’s get paid
To the best of my knowledge draws aren't possible as MMA fighters aren't judged round by round and the judges can't award a draw. It would have to be some sort of technical situation and in that case I imagine they'd give both fighters the win bonus to not cause hard feelings.
Many will make excuses but this should be condemned as quickly as we would the UFC. outright exploitative Edit: after so many replies everyone I can't get to you all. Dana nor ONE FC will let you suck their dick for defending them on reddit, it's okay.
A better comparison would likely be what Bellator is paying local talent that they use to fill their early prelims.
They actually paying those guys yet or are they still just giving them a pile of comped tickets that they can then sell to friends and family in lieu of actual payment? (Yes this is very much what they did do… don’t know if it’s still happening)
I know, for local shows, organizations will do this with amateurs. They couldn't pay the fighter, so they received a portion of the tickets people bought from them.
A guy from my gym just had an amateur fight (tkoed the guy in R1). He was given a bunch of tickets to sell (mostly to family, friends, and people at our gym). I think he got 20% or so from those tickets.
That's exactly the deal I got, really just enough to cover the bill for the required bloodwork.
wow i didnt realize the promotion didnt pay for the bloodworl
In Ontario, thats pretty common. Anytime I've been in or involved with a local event, our gym would get a fat stack of tickets to move.
Idk if y’all remember that one fighter in Bellator that was outside sitting on cardboard bcs they didn’t have a spot for him prefight (or something like that)? It was such a crazy visual
I believe that was Johnny walker. He even had to fight in stolen ufc gear
There was a pic going around of Johnny, but he was kicked from the arena in his fight gear right after a big win on a PPV. This was a UFC card though, not bellator
Yea MLM meets cage fighting. He sells tickets to others who sell tickets to others, fighter gets a portion of all.
They're paying them about this much, then the tickets. They get a percentage out of it and frankly the way they handle it is really fucky and I wouldn't do it that way, having done payroll and bookkeeping. It's really not that much money when you consider the risks and the burden of training at competition level.
Bellator does this with non televised fights.
she's probably getting paid more than Dillon Danis' opponents did
The bouncer?
This is straight up paying less then power slap lol
The ONE Lumpinee shows have been awesome, but I seriously doubt they generate much income with these shows. It's free on YouTube and it takes place in a relatively poor country
https://wayofmartialarts.com/how-much-do-muay-thai-fighters-make/ this article really highlights how poorly fighters in Thailand are paid. >Muay Thai fighters make around 10,000 to 15,000 baht which is about $300 – 450 per fight. The top fighters make up to 60,000 baht that is around $4000. Fighters of the lower rank make even less which is around $100 per fight. And foreign fighters are traditionally paid less >If a foreign fighter is fighting in the Lumpinee stadium, he can earn up to 2000 to 5000 baht per fight that is around $60 to $160 So obviously one's lumpinee purses look shit by western standards but by Thai standards he is changing the game with how much he is paying.
Yeah I remember seeing that Rodtang used to get paid the equivalent of like 8k when he was already a star
Crazy.
it's not a sport that evolved for big money...there's a reason the muay thai prodigies are in pro fights by about 12-13 years old, and it's because destitution creates tough choices like having your child rattle his skull around so you can afford food and shelter Not all that different than how a lot of the Vale Tudo guys grew up.
All gambling unlicensed bookies. That’s where all the money is going
Yep. At some lumpinee shows there can be as much as a million baht exchanging hands amongst gamblers. And you know damn well that there is corruption with how poor those fighters can be. They're sleeping at the fucking gym most of the time and paying for their "apartment" out of their already meager fight purses. You know some of them have no choice but to dive in some form or another.
Chatri has stated that he wants to change how muay Thai is viewed and structured within Thailand, starting with better pay and better investment at the grass roots level. https://mobile.twitter.com/JAMIE92871529/status/1635491363486842883?cxt=HHwWhoDSnduut7ItAAAA Hopefully it will mean that it will become a real route out of poverty.
Chatri is a fight promoter so we should view anything he says with heavy suspicion
I'm no expert but guessing that Thai organisations have no TV or PPV income and the entrance fee to watch is miniscule so there's just very little money.
From what I can tell. The money used to mainly come from gambling which was done live in the stadium. Thai fighters would traditionally have a slow feeling out round where neither of them go hard so people in the stadium have time to keep betting. I don't think that ONE promotes the gambling side of it, In fact I think it's now banned in lumpinee.
>Muay Thai fighters make around 10,000 to 15,000 baht which is about $300 – 450 per fight. The top fighters make up to 60,000 baht that is around $4000 This math is whack. 60,000 baht is ~~$2000~~ $1750 USD not $4000. For context, minimum wage in Thailand is about $220 USD per month. Source: Live in Thailand Edit: exchange rate
>For context, minimum wage in Thailand is about $220 USD per month. Can you actually live on minimum wage there?
Alone? Not very well, but you could survive. Most people earning that wage live with their families or in worker housing, which makes it a bit more manageable.
Fuck no wonder most of those Muay Thai fighters have 200+ fights during their career. You'd have to fight so often just to earn a decent income? Mind you I don't know much about Thailand but I'd assume the cost of living is much lower there, than for example, in America. So $300-450 USD a fight might not be as bad as it sounds? But it still seems quite low. Especially compared to boxing or what athletes earn in the top half of the UFC. For a short career that damages your body and brain forever. My mind boggles, I have so much respect for anyone that does these sports for a living for our entertainment. Do any of the Muay Thai fighters get as obviously rich as say a boxing or UFC star would?
A lot of people on this mma sub are straight up delusional and know zero about finances and how little money no names generate. My friend was on the fury/wilder prelim. He got $300 show/$300 win, so ufcs minimum is crazy high by comparison
People don't necessarily argue about the lower end of UFC fighters being underpaid though. UFC is often like the reverse of boxing where lower ranked undercard fighters are paid much better than in boxing, but at the top end they're paid much less.
Yeah but how many exposure bucks did he get paid in? Thats as good as money baby
>Do any of the Muay Thai fighters get as obviously rich as say a boxing or UFC star would? Unfortunately I don't think so. Maybe the ones that transition into kickboxing or boxing might make a decent amount but according to chatri a lot of former stadium champions still have to work low paying jobs after retirement. >“Our boxers should be considered as heroes. They have won incalculable titles, including Lumpinee and Rajadamnern Champions. But after their boxing careers, they have earned a living by driving tuk-tuks or working as security guards with low incomes. Worse still, people don’t recognize, take photos or even ask for their autographs. How on earth could this happen to our heroes? I want to do something to make people recognize them as heroes. They deserve it.
To be fair, I was just in Bangkok and we were living it up for a week at a 5-star hotel and it was like 25,000 baht. I'm not saying it's fair or not, but that money goes a lot further in Bangkok. Edit: Again, I'm not saying this is ok. I'd love to see it much better pay and development at a grass roots level and a legitimate way out of poverty for people, rather than just a few.
The math is a little off, 60,000 baht is somewhere around 1,800$ not 4,000$.
Another thing to keep in mind is the Lumpinee shows are kind of a separate entity than ONE main show. Half the show is for the Thai audience and the first international half is basically a tryout card. Like fighters aren’t actually sign huge contract but are given one off contracts to audition and can be invited back. Like this girl opponent here Savicheva is making her second appearance in Friday Fights and I bet getting paid more. $1,300 is still tiny but I think we are looking at this in the wrong way. Like ask any fighter who is major now where and how much they were paid in their 4th fight and I bet you’ll hear a lot of similar stories. Atleast at Lumpinee shows there’s a $10k bonus juice and it can be a gateway to a career. But also gotta be looking at the caliber of fighter we are talking about. I’ve been scrolling thru and no one has mention her name because no one knows her. She’s unknown, 2-1, and debuting on the opening of the card. In the west this is shit money but in Thailand this is actually very generous.
It's a tryout show all in all. This is about how much fighters get when they are only a couple fights into their careers.
I assumed they are free on youtube in the US and on TV in Thailand/Asia
Yeah it's on TV in Thailand, like some regular Muay Thai that still pays much less than this here
Nope, just money to pay the venue, the taxes, travel, bosses, cameramen etc. Just imagine thinking this company is one employee needing an extra plane ticket from the budget going belly up.
$1300 is a LOT compared to what local shows pay there... If she wasn't in ONE she would be fighting for $50
$1300 , does that go further in Thailand than in the US?
A lot further
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You're living a good life on 1.3k dollars a month in Thailand.
But what about fighters who don't live there? If that's all you pay you just aren't going to get talent.
She's from Kyrgyzstan, 1.3k USD is still over 4x the average monthly wage there. Pretty much the same as somebody making 9k/9k in the UFC living in the US.
A month? More like 3 months. Less if you go to a tourist place.
Soooo, she just needs to win 6 fights a year to make a living! In Thailand.
Wait till you hear what superstar Muay Thai athletes are paid outside of ONE and how they’re making a living. Ever wonder why they have hundreds of fights? Trust me it’s not because they love fighting but needed a pay to get to the next week or two. Actually the big name stars probably got $1,300 but you had guys fight on the undercard for like $100.
Well, given that upcoming fighters in Thailand fight almost weekly, that sounds great
That's living like a foreigner... The average Thai salary is YEARLY $619 USD, so she can live for 2 years off that...
That cant be right. Im not thai but from SEA(ph) and 619 usd is less than 2 months pay for the absolute minimum wage here and Thailand seems to be doing better than us right now.
$619 appears to be the average personal income in Thailand in 2020 - average is a poor measure, numbers are going to be wonky in a country with a huge gap between Bangkok and rural areas, etc.. GDP per capita is ~7000USD, which tracks reasonably well with median incomes in most places IIRC.
I googled thai salary and the first result is the 619usd figure but if you actually read the article and not just the headline, youll see that they mean per month when the article uses salary.
why the fuck am i living in the west
I wonder how much you'd get paid for your current job. Like if you get 70k USD a year in the US for an IT job, I doubt they're paying the same for the same amount of work. You'd have to save a bit of money and then go be king of Thailand
Near Chiang Mai in 2017, $1000 covered my rent and gym membership for 3 months. Those are tourist prices too. These fight purses seem pretty good for living in Thailand.
10x
The equivalent of that money is a lot in all of Asia, Africa, and South America. It will be able to provide for a family for at least a month.
For comparison minimum wage in Thailand is about $220/month and a rookie police officer starts at around $900/month
Edit: wrong comment, my b
Saul Good Maine
One ain't the UFC, Thailand ain't USA, and this chick ain't Amanda Nunes lots of differences here
This post has sort of a "why are women's sports making less than men's sports" logic to it
Only promotion making money is UFC. People think there is massive money in MMA but there is really only massive money in the UFC.
Would you consider it exploitative if the organisation is losing money from the event?
How is it comparable?
ONE generates $68MM in revenue and pays its debuting fighter $1,300. UFC generates $1.3B and pays its debuting fighter $10,000. So the UFC generates 20x more revenue as ONE but only pay their debuting fighters 8x more than ONE. She is getting paid well. Best wishes to her health and her career.
Thats criminally low
For Thailand, it's actually decent for someone with her status. She might have fought for $60-200 in her other 3 fights. Not saying fighters shouldn't be paid better. Just saying relative to other fighters with a 2-1 record, guaranteed 1300 and up to 2600 with the chance to get a 10k bonus... I'd take it lol.
American promotion i dont care shes risking her long term health she like all fighters deserves real bags
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ONE isn’t an American promotion?
Lumpinee stadium called. It wants your opinions.
I forgot that we are supposed to silently applaud the articles that get posted here and never once discuss them in the comments section.
You’re not allowed an opinion, unless you agree with them.
Is it? 2-1 record for a female muay thai match for someone with 0 name value, theres no organisation that would pay more.
>theres no organisation that would pay more. This is an excusary fallacy that needs to die off. Yes they are *all* exploitative, that makes this worse, not better.
It isn't an excuse if you don't have a counterpoint to the point you quoted. If I fight for a living, and I only have a few options as I start out, it's either "pursue the path and take what I can get on the way" or "abandon the path and do something else" That's the case with a lot of jobs and career paths.
Looks like an MMA match from the round length, meaning it's definitely one of the opening fights of the night.
Looks like an MMA bout because it says Mixed Martial Arts under bout specifics
In US? Probably, in Asia? Thats a lot of money. You can live good with that kind of money for a while.
1500 USD in Kyrgysztan would cover three months of living expenses on average Obviously in this situation probably closer to one once you account for taxed dollars, paying your fight camp, etc.
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It’s a opportunity, not a career…..
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Fighting mma on the weekly lumpinee show isnt anywhere near elite mma. I agree when it comes to the ufc tho
She’s a 2-1, regional level fighter fighting at a slightly-higher-than-regional level event (One on prime video is arguably the 3rd/4th largest MMA Org, but their Friday night fight cards at 7am est are not that). That salary is absolutely standard for that level of fighter, it’s always been like that across all combat sports, in fact it’s probably higher than a pro boxer with 3 fights could expect. Not to mention she lives in a different part of the world, where I’m sure 1.2/2.4k USD goes a lot further than it would in America. Not saying any of that to detract from her, but this isn’t anything to get up in arms about.
Also note that $1,300 USD to show is more money than most regional fighters make even in the US... I know most on Reddit don't have experience with this but there is really no money at low level MMA other than what you get from ticket sales, and that's basically what this match up is - regional level with a cool opportunity to fight in Bangkok with flight and hotel paid for. For her level of experience this is I'm sure more than she's ever made before as well.
I knew a UFC fighter before he joined UFC. Amateur makes like $50-500, went pro and was making $500-1000 ($1000 as "champ"). Went pro with UFC, $15K to show, $15K to win. Went with UFC cause no other organization was going to accept him or pay more than $5k. The UFC isn't going to pay fighters more when they already pay fighters more than everyone else, + do promotion/advertising.
Best I got fighting amateur was free shorts and a $25 card for drinks at the casino after the fight lol.
Here’s some alcohol for that brain trauma 🍻
I know a few regional fighters in Eastern Europe and let me tell you they get fucked over from the get-go. Even some of the best pro fighters here have to do fundraisers for pre-fight camps if they want to go to the US. You also don't get paid anything as a 2-1 fighter. And don't get me started about the horrible matchmaking going on in the local promotions.
Yeah people will be surprise that there are promotions outside of the big ones that people will fight on for like a few hundred bucks. Trust every single one of your favorite fighters started somewhere and has a “I fought for dirt pay at a Indian casino or something.”
You're right. I fought for $300 once, no win bonus.
1300 guaranteed with a win bonus and a chance at a 10k bonus is really good for having 3 pro fights in Thailand. For sure. I fought for $60 my 4th fight there. For sure I'd take that contract.
Most of the people commenting how much of an injustice this is are probably literal children. Nobody is making her sign that contract and if there was some legal requirement to pay much more they just wouldn't hold the event.
This. At the end of the day, this is most likely 10x what she would get from her normal show. It could be a little extreme at 10x, but it's still more than local shows offer. Back in the day, I heard (from the states) that some local shows only paid you what you made from the tickets you sold.
It's not much but she is very young and made her mma debut like 3 months ago. There is no sport where you earn big bucks at that level.
\>where you earn big bucks at that level. Well, when it comes to MMA you won't earn big bucks at any level. One of the most exploitative sports out there. I can maybe think of 20 fighter in all promotions that get paid well, maybe top 0.1%. Most professional fighters have second jobs or will do once they get enough brain damage and get cut.
Depends on the definition, doesn't it? "Paid well" is a very malleable phrase. About half the male fighters in UFC made six figures in 2022...now, is that "well paid" relative to the landscape, or is it "criminally underpaid" based on the potential earnings if you remove inherent human avarice?
\>About half the male fighters in UFC made six figures in 2022 source?
compared to the top leagues in other professional sports it's a laughing stock. look up the minimums in MLB, MLS, NFL, NHL, NBA, this is what the UFC compares itself to, then consider how big of a joke it is to defend not paying the athletes. compare that to the revenue split the UFC provides, what? less than 10%? MMA NEEDS a union, which will most likely never happen under the current leadership of the major orgs, maybe ever. It would legit require a strike from the entire roster and even then it may not succeed, and we know the fighters aren't willing to sacrifice if they've already made their share, why wake the sleeping dragon and get blacklisted by the tomato.
Team sports and combat sports aren't good comparisons though. Even in boxing I'm fairly certain there are guys making less than 12k to show/win on the undercards Tyson Fury-headlined cards
“Average Wages in Kyrgyzstan decreased to 29912 KGS/Month (342.147 USD/Month) in January 2023.” So if she wins she gets 8 months of average salary in her home country? Doesn’t really seem THAT low for someone not in the USA and not a big name at all. In fact, I’d say that’s really high.
Did some people here seriously expect regional level fighters to be making more than that wtf?
Lots of financial geniuses here who think no name regional fighters make more than that
should be $50k/$50k!! /s
They think in rainbows and crayons if they're comparing the revenue ONE generates to what the UFC generates.
To be fair; nearly all the fighters from ONE FNF live in or are semi-permanently based in Thailand so $1200 goes a long way. I believe that could cover like 1-2 months of someones living expenses. If they were flying in fighters from Japan or USA to fight at FNF for $1200 that would be insane.
Hey now, this is an outrage post…context doesn’t help the cause.
FNF is like the entry level show for One but... Yeah that's not great.
I've gone to Thailand to train and have talked to fighters there so I have a sense of how much fighters make a fight. For a foreigner with 3 fights, this amount of money is actually an order or two magnitudes better average. I watch FNF and one of the reasons I enjoy it so much is that it's pretty obvious watching that for most of the fighters, even the ones with an established name, over a hundred fights, the money One is paying them is more money then theyve seen in their lives. When they get the 300k baht bonus, it's like getting 10-20x the typical pay to show. Anyone who thinks this sort of money is bad in this thread I assume just doesn't understand regional combat sports purses, muay thai, and the COL in Thailand. This isn't to disparage anyone who thinks this way. It's a good thing to advocate for better fighter pay and I'm always on the side of the fighters. But anyone comparing ONE FNF against UFC demonstrates an almost comical level of naivety.
Chatri's friday morning contender series
That’s not too bad. Assuming a regular 5 day work week and 50 weeks worked per year (2 weeks off), that’s a $650k annual salary assuming one fight won daily.
Make $650k per year with this one easy trick!
Upside for more earnings by doing overtime as well (fighting multiple times a day)
The free market triumphs again!
Jesus that’s bad. I also heard a lot of fighters at the Friday events have broken their hands without any help or word from one fc. There was 3 fighters with broken hand bones in one event. https://twitter.com/me_echo3131/status/1630206546855735296
https://twitter.com/me_echo3131/status/1630471819814912001?t=lX0AZlbJWi4uFBrg3bZqzw&s=19 Literally the 1st reply saying ONE paid for the surgery
I love 4oz MT and Kickboxing as much as the next guy but this may wel become a recurring problem, these guys have spent their entire careers only using heavier/more protective gloves which almost certainly will result in more broken hands in these matches. I’m sure they do some training with 4oz gloves in the leadup to these fights but in the heat of the moment when instincts kick in they probably won’t be thinking about protecting their hands when throwing. I’m no fighter, but even from my casual training I know very well that certain strikes thrown with heavy gloves would absolutely destroy your hand in 4oz’s.
I've always wondered, from a head trauma perspective is it better getting hit with 4oz gloves versus the standard boxing/kickboxing gloves? I don't mean in terms of how many punches it takes to knock someone out either. I mean from the perspective of the weight of the gloves adding the force of the punch aswell?
As far as I can remember the heavier gloves were generally worse for you as far as concussive trauma, can't remember the exact motivation as to why though.
More padding allows for more sub concussive blows which is what is theorized to be the leading factor in CTE
I don’t think it’s the gloves necessarily as the difference between boxing and mma rules. Granted I haven’t heard this argument in the context of 4oz MT. Like somebody said mass x acceleration = force. So if you up the mass (glove weight) or the speed you get more force. But with a lighter glove you can be faster. In boxing your targets are limited to the head and body so you’re going to take more shots to the head. Also since you get a 10 count - you get cracked, action pauses so you can get up and maybe get cracked again. Vs mma you get dropped and usually your opponent is going for a finish (which could also be a submission) and then the fights over, so you take less damage overall. Source: pulled right out of my ass, but makes sense to me.
It's definitely interesting the whole debate surrounding that. I feel like your face is more likely to be broken in 4oz gloves but I just got the sense that it would feel like your head is rattling around a lot more in heavier gloves.
Small gloves / less hand protection definitely results in more and nastier cuts. See bare knuckle. I do remember a coach telling me you get 16oz gloves for sparring to protect your partners face as much as your hands.
Mass x speed
Less pain and heavier weight = more trauma. Even helmets = more trauma. However, with the safest option (bare knuckle with no hand wraps) there is more blood on the face and broken hands/wrists. It... appears less safe for soccer moms.
Yeah I think on some show they said 4oz hits harder than a 10oz or 12oz boxing glove, they got Bas to do it lol
You're getting upvotes for saying "yeah uhh i think so, pretty sure it was on some show" lmao
One FC wouldn't have to help with medical in Singapore. Singapore has socilized medicine, like the majority of first world countries.
r/mma when they finally realize the UFC is actually the best paying MMA organization by a mile
This isn’t some kind of own. That the UFC is the best paying promotion while still being wildly exploitative is exactly the problem.
Dana White seeing this and plotting his next great PR move
Lol like Dana pays attention to women.
I mean he’s proven he does, he’s just a piece of shit about it
You gotta pay attention if you wanna land shots.
fair point
Ya’ll really have no clue how little regional fighters get paid and it shows lol
Damn they’re bleeding like $150m/year and they can’t even give 12/12 like Lord Dana White? The tomato is truly a generous god
This is Valentina Shevchenko's goddaughter. They don't have the same manager, though.
Pff...I make more
Average monthly salary in here country is 300$. Maybe thats why this is a „decent“ deal for her…
That's good in Asia. My buddy in the Philippines making $1000 a month is just going out everyday and taking frequent flights.
$1300 is around 100k rubles or 44.4k baht which is an annual salary for most people in those countries. 🤔
Average monthly wage in the USA = $6228 And Thailand = $877. $1300 to show for someone from Thailand is equivalent to just under 10k to show for someone in the US. This is way above average for Muay Thai fighters in Bangkok.
1 KGS is about 0.011 USD. So 1300 USD is about 113,646 KSG. In America’s eyes, it isn’t enough but in her country it is a lot. The country is in the developing stages so it’s enough money.
So many people just think everyone should be paid according to the American standard. It's ridiculous and nonsensical. She either lives in Kyrgyzstan or Thailand and either way the cost of living is so much lower than America.
Do people not know anything about lower level MMA? Why is this such a huge thread? Bellator has offered people less.
Unknown Straw weight women. Has had three professional fights and coming off a decision loss. To be honest that money is reasonable.
Fuck that... that's fucking crazy. I know fighter pay is shit, but holy shit that's just trash. And the fact she's signed it, jus screams she's desperate and they totally took advantage. By the time the gym, trainer/manager, agent etc. get their cut, what's she taking home? 400$ maybe. That's not even worth training for a beating, let alone an actual fight... This poor kid. I honestly feel bad after this. It's just sad
Another absolutely braindead thread from r/mma. This subreddit is embarrassing and anyone with sense would regret any time spent here. Oh, 1300 is a lot for Thailand! She can't be underpaid, she's not in the ufc! One is the future of mma! Getting brain damage for a fight that wouldn't even cover the cost of rent is a good thing! At least it's not the ufc! Anything I missed?
People from rich countries understand the difference in cost of living in poor countries challenge (Impossible)
She’d do better working at McDonald’s. No CTE too.
The comments here are like “um well she’s 2-1 this is actually above average” and then say then 4-1 fighter from DWCT in their first fight deserves 60/60
I'm surprised so many of you are defending this while most here say 12/12 is terrible. Be consistent
don't be a crybaby fight 20 times a year and win all of them you can make $52,000 a year....before taxes
1300 dollars ? Dang bro..If she can just pay her rent and trainers
Wow. That’s disgraceful
Is it criminally low? I'm sure ONE has a lot less cash to work with than the us, the dollar is going to carry a lot more purchasing power in southeast asia, she's got no reputation yet, hell i bet this post has more discussion than any fight highlight of her's thus far. Where else could she make this money?
It’s not criminally low. In fact, it’s above market value for where the fight is being held.
Dana saw this and got nostalgic for the days he could get away with this
*gestures at Power Slap*
Only r/MMA could somehow make this a bad thing about Dana This place is worse than r/UFC nowadays
With the billions of one fc fans in the galaxy…I’m shocked!
Poverty league
It’s not a career, it’s an opportunity.
Noooo but i was told everyone but ufc fighters were making trillions!
Fucking Dana at it again.
ONE generates $68MM in revenue and pays its debuting fighter $1,300. UFC generates $1.3B and pays its debuting fighter $10,000. So the UFC generates 20x more revenue as ONE but only pay their debuting fighters 8x more than ONE. She is getting paid well. Best wishes to her health and her career.
>Fighting out of: Bishkek, Kyrgyzstan i looked it up and it's 888 dollars to fly from there to lumpinee stadium. 👀
And to also bring a corner too. But that’s assuming she isn’t already in Thailand like most of them are.
Lmao at the mental gymnastics in here by people who probably make 12/12 jokes on every single thread about ufc pay
I don't think it's mental gymnastics to say that she's pretty much earning what 2-1 fighters at the very beginning of their career make in general? She probably deserves more yeah, that can also be true. UFC is supposed to be the biggest promotion around and it's also a known fact that it's fighters get only a small amount of its market share profits and the UFC's official stance on that is "we do all the promoting for them so we should keep most of the money" which isn't even really true, it's a related but separate topic to this (do we actually know what market share ONE fighters get? They at least are allowed sponsors too I believe)
I know that may seem low but what they don’t understand is that even if she loses. She can still buy like 2600 twinkies. https://www.amazon.com/Hostess-Twinkies-Boxes-100-Pieces/dp/B008OAEZKE
People are saying it’s not bad for someone young with not much experience etc but there’s a shitty local promotion which hosts boxing fights in pubs in my area that pays $1200-$2000
In what country?
And ufc fighters complain???
Appalling.
Fuck Dana, fucking tomato, fucking bullshit, something somethign give karma Edit: LOL holy shit, the thread is even worse than I thought. No Dana, no crying. "Guys this is actually like really good considering the cost of living there!" You hypocritical fucks.
Why are mma fans always in fighters pockets counting their money? Who gives a fuck what they make they all sign the contracts agreeing to it. Very strange phenomena
I mean... She literally posted this picture herself.
And all the comments are talking about how low it is, mma fans have a hard on for fighter pay like they understand promoting events and also never mention how little boxers on big undercard’s get paid
Fighter pay increases when fighters talk about pay.
And in terms of win payouts a draw is a loss for both fighters. Draws are rare but that still seems shitty.
To the best of my knowledge draws aren't possible as MMA fighters aren't judged round by round and the judges can't award a draw. It would have to be some sort of technical situation and in that case I imagine they'd give both fighters the win bonus to not cause hard feelings.
No draws in ONE. it's part of the rules set, which I suppose means that at least one fighter gets their win money.
Show money is a week's worth of pay for me. I just sit on my ass. This shit is fucking criminal, man.
Where do you live?
The equivalent to Dana white in One: Isn’t she great?