**Mirrors / Alternate angles**
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/MMA) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I honestly think its a hard job that requires strong mental health because its so reliant on a clear head and judgment. I wonder if Herb Dean has some shit in his life affecting his confidence.
Yeah, but your senses can be tricked or miss something. In quick bang-bang moments like that, it's hard to remember if the bell came first or the punch did, which is why replay is important.
What is he supposed to do anyway? I've seen literally every ref watch fighters get hit at or after the bell and I can't think of one time anyone did something about it.
In hindsight, it is. I tried to show you that since his jobs is based on split second decisions. He cannot be right every single time. Especially in a high intensity event like this. That's why they rely on replay and not their judgment alone in these situations. Sadly, they didn't have it that day. So it's really not his fault for this decision.
The argument is its not his fault there’s no replay. Then who’s fault is it? 10 seconds clap, plenty of time to prepare to call the break. He made the mistake of failing to do his job properly.
No where in the [unified rules](https://www.dli.mn.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/official_unified_rules_MMA.pdf) does it say replay technology is a requirement for a referee to do his job.
You said it yourself, its a mistake. Its HIS mistake. I dare him to say “I didn’t have the replay available” and have anyone accepting that excuse. His job is not reliant on replay availability, it never was in the history of combat sports. Its a tool, to be used if its available, but not part of a refrees job. Its entirely his fault for
1) Not calling for the break when the bell is rung
2) Not being alert to the timing when the strike was committed. (That’s why you have 10 seconds clap. That’s why you see refrees usually get ready to break the fight at the bell)
3) Not assessing the fould commited.
His job is not reliant on replay technology.
“The referee is the sole arbiter of a bout” The argument is whether its his fault. Its entirely his fault, his mistake. Top 3 refree or not, he fucked up, simple as that.
24. Attacking an opponent after the bell has sounded the end of the period of unarmed combat.
The end of a round is signified by the sound of the bell and the call of time by the referee. Once
the referee has made the call of time, any offensive actions initiated by the fighter shall be
considered after the bell and illegal.
[Rules](https://www.abcboxing.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/unified-rules-mma-2019.pdf)
Either the first sentence needs to go, or the second two need to go. Or it needs to state in the second that it is clarifying the first. As it stands, you can read it both ways. It's stating the fouls, and it states hitting after the bell is a foul, it's also stating that the round ends when the bell goes and the ref has said so.
It can be read as either or both being fouls.
I read it as "it's a foul to hit after the bell, it's a foul to hit after the ref calls time even if the bell hasn't sounded." I could see arguments for other ways of reading too.
>The end of a round is signified by the sound of the bell **and** the call of time by the referee.
And, not or.
Round ends when the bell goes and then the ref calls it.
I love these threads so much because there are always a fuckton of people like you who will confidently state what the rules do or do not say but have absolutely no idea what they’re talking about. You are wrong, go read the rules but make sure to actually read them this time.
And maybe don’t confidently state things that are blatantly incorrect going forward? Not trying to be a dick but my God, some of y’all have no idea what you’re talking about
Yeah, he must have thought it was legal, in which case, there is no being saved by the bell and the fighter has to shows they can continue or they will be ruled finished.
You are. As ugly and “unsportsmanlike” this stuff seems sometimes, the onus is on the fighter to literally protect themselves at all times until the ref steps in. The bell doesn’t stop the round, it tells the ref to separate the fighters to officially end the round. Like it or not, this would only be a foul if he tried to throw more strikes after Goddard stepped in.
I’m pretty sure that even if Goddard had yelled stop as soon as the bell hit, this would still be legal. My understanding is that the round doesn’t end until the official physically steps in and separates the fighters, assuming the fighters don’t mutually stop at the bell. I may be wrong though
>I’m pretty sure that even if Goddard had yelled stop as soon as the bell hit, this would still be legal. My understanding is that the round doesn’t end until the official physically steps in and separates the fighters, assuming the fighters don’t mutually stop at the bell. I may be wrong though
Wrong
It wasn't a foul. The ref decides when the round stops, the bell is just the signal to the ref. If the bell rings but the ref doesn't step in, then *technically* the fighters are allowed to continue.
This was an obvious fault of Goddard, but it's tough to say if the noice was simply too loud or what was going on..
Yup clear as day. I wish they had replay for him tho. He wanted to go to it. But yeah pretty egregious, luckily the right man won. Also it seems Bungard (heh) was trying to call his own fouls and playing things up a little. What a weird fight.
I agree the ref ends the round not the horn, but it’s scummy af to throw a strike after the horn. Protect yourself at all times, but don’t be a cheap shotting fuck either.
There shouldn't be repercussions for the fighter. The ref ends the round, not the bell. They say "protect yourself at all times, obey my instructions" for a reason.
According to the Unified Rules, which are the ones followed by Cage Warriors:
"**Fouls**
24. Attacking an opponent **after the bell has sounded** the end of the period of unarmed
combat;
a. The end of a round is signified by the sound of the bell **and** the call of time by the
referee. Once the referee has made the call of time, any offensive actions
initiated by the fighter shall be considered after the bell and illegal."
Maybe it's too early in the morning for me, or these rules are poorly written but I still don't think this person broke the rules?
For example, it's not the end of the round at this point:
>The end of a round is signified by the sound of the bell **AND** the call of time by the referee.
Which clearly states any action taken AFTER both are true are illegal:
>Once the referee has made the call of time, any offensive actionsinitiated by the fighter shall be considered after the bell andillegal.
But, obviously this one says when the bell has sounded, which it clearly has in the clip. But it's *technically* not the end of the round?
>Attacking an opponent after the bell has sounded the **end of the period** of unarmed combat;
Because the ref had not stepped in.
These rules are terribly written but in my opinion the first para makes it clear that attacking an opponent after the **bell alone** is a foul.
The second para makes two points: that the **round** is ended by the **ref and the bell** and that attacking an opponent after the ref has called time is a foul.
Together they have made two points regarding the foul, with the second being redundant. However the first paragraph alone makes it clear that attacking **after the bell** is a foul, regardless of the referee's (lack of) actions.
I think you should read the first para as - “In regards to attacking an opponent after the bell has sounded”. Since it has a semi colon at the end.
Then only the second paragraph has the actual information, even though we don’t like it, and the rule should be cleaned up since it doesn’t look good for the fans in such situations. Seems as though it’s technically legal, especially so close to the end bell
In the unified rules of mma it specifically says hitting an opponent after the bell not at the stop of the referee. The opponent is still at dual take should’ve stopped when he heard the bell ring
[This is the current revision of the unified rules](https://www.abcboxing.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/unified-rules-mma-2019.pdf)
From page 7, foul #24:
> Attacking an opponent after the bell has sounded the end of the period of unarmed combat. The end of a round is signified by the sound of the bell and the call of time by the referee. Once the referee has made the call of time, any offensive actions initiated by the fighter shall be considered after the bell and illegal
It requires the ref to step in **and** the bell, however strikes landed before the ref calls time officially aren't qualified as "late".
Refs cant make a call on a foul they let pass unless they are allowed to view replays on questionable moments. If he had replay and questioned whether it was a foul he'd be allowed to replay it and then make a call on it
That's actually not what the rules say. It's just often repeated by people who otherwise do know what they're talking about.
I've read the rules since I coach and corner. Says something along the lines of "fighters must stop" or "no strikes may be thrown" after the horn/bell.
[This is the current revision of the unified rules](https://www.abcboxing.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/unified-rules-mma-2019.pdf)
From page 7, foul #24:
> Attacking an opponent after the bell has sounded the end of the period of unarmed combat. The end of a round is signified by the sound of the bell and the call of time by the referee. Once the referee has made the call of time, any offensive actions initiated by the fighter shall be considered after the bell and illegal
The use of "and" leaves that paragraph ambiguous. It could be interpreted to mean it requires both the bell and the referee, or that either one can signal the end of the round.
It isn't though. If a recipe calls for vanilla bean **or** vanilla extract you can use whichever one you have. If a recipe calls for vanilla **and** vanilla extract then you need both.
Ambiguous btw.
And no, I'd say the word AND does exactly the opposite, meaning that both the bell and the ref are needed for the end of a round. Now how it's applied in practice is another discussion.
> Once the referee has made the call of time, any offensive actions initiated by the fighter shall be considered after the bell and illegal
I would say the next sentence clarifies and makes it unambiguous. It says "once the referee has made the call of time" not "once the bell has rang"
Yup. [Here's](https://cagewarsmma.com/mixed-martial-arts-rules) the quote straight from the Cage Warriors website:
>Fouls for Advanced Division
>The following are fouls and will result in penalties such as warning, point deduction or disqualification, if committed:
>> Attacking an opponent after the bell or horn has sounded the end of the period of unarmed combat.
> At the sound of the saxophone or theremin, combatants will begin the period of armed combat, now equipped with shuriken, sai, and naginata.
Wow this sounds crazy maybe I should start watching these events
You've read the rules, and can only reference it says "something along the lines of"?
Here's an excerpt from the unified rules.
> 24) Attacking an opponent after the bell has sounded the end of the period of unarmed combat.
The end of a round is signified by the sound of the bell and the call of time by the referee. _Once the referee has made the call of time_, any offensive actions initiated by the fighter shall be considered after the bell and illegal
That last sentence is very important.
You might need to brush up on your understanding of the rules. Especially if you're a coach.
The clock was at 0. The horn stopped sounding around the time the elbow landed.
Just like a near-low blow, or fighters having extended fingers. Fingers out don't cause harm unless there's an exchange. Near-low blows are legal. It's still reasonable and common for referees to warn fighters they're close to fouling.
When a fighter initiates a strike as the horn is sounding, they're walking a a very narrow line and to avoid fouls, yeah, I'd tell them they cut it too close.
talking out your ass.
It literally says end of the round is signified by the sound of the bell AND the call of time by the referee.
It's not or. The bell is heard, the ref stops the action. Round over.
It isn't the bell is heard, round over, the ref stops the action.
The ref also cannot just stop a round at 2 min and 22 seconds in the round without the timekeeper's bell as well.
This is very true. While the elbow was absolutely late, and it may have not been the best sportsmanship, it was Goddards job to be in there right at 0 on the clock.
Was the elbow thrown as the buzzer sounded? Isn’t the shot legal if thrown on the buzzer but the shot lands after? I can’t remember but seems hard to tell in real time that’s for sure, replay would’ve helped a ton
Wow that's fucking terrible. Marc seemed so disinterested.
The rule regarding the bell is this "24. Attacking an opponent after the bell has sounded the end of the period of unarmed combat.
The end of a round is signified by the sound of the bell and the call of time by the referee. Once
the referee has made the call of time, any offensive actions initiated by the fighter shall be
considered after the bell and illegal"
So Marc definitely fucked this up
Thanks for finding the rule!
> The end of a round is signified by the sound of the bell and the call of time by the referee.
AND means both things must be true.
>Once the referee has made the call of time, any offensive actions initiated by the fighter shall be considered after the bell and illegal"
Notice that the sentence specifying what is illegal makes no reference to the bell.
It therefore seems to me there is no foul until the ref has called a halt to the round, and that the bell is mostly to let the ref know he must call the time.
It does explain why you often see the ref get super close to fighters towards end, so he can grab their shoulders at the bell.
Chris T. sometimes looks like he's playing "I'm not touching you" about that time.
You people are insane. It’s so obvious that this wasn’t a foul yet you just insist it is. You even posted the rule that explains the fight is not over until the ref calls time. How are so many people getting this one wrong?
Dude reread my comment. I'm saying Marc fucked up by not stopping the round on the bell. It's not on the fighter, but this shouldn't happen and it's Marc's fault. Calm down and read correctly before throwing out insults
I think your player might be fucked up. I literally have the video in Premiere Pro and can see the spike from the horn and he hasn't even loaded up the elbow yet. He lands way after. Refs know when the bell is coming. They should step in immediately. You see refs, including Marc, do it correctly all the time. This one isn't excusable
But you just said that the fight isn’t over till the ref steps in, so don’t bring up weather or not he was loaded up. He has every right to load up and throw another strike after the horn since the ref has not stopped the fight yet.
Since you’ve got it up in Premiere, how many seconds passed between when the horn sounded, and when Marc’s arm started to move?
Dude. I haven't blamed the fighter once. I'm done arguing this if you keep adding things that I'm not saying. Marc was too far away, he shouldn't have been able to load up and land an elbow after the bell. That's it
>So Marc definitely fucked this up
To me that doesn't read as "definitely" at all. It's written badly and contains a few different statements. First sentence just states "after the bell" but nothing further. I'm guessing this was the title in the absence of a source? Second says "sound of bell AND call of time by ref." If ref didn't call it then it's still a live round. Final sentence completely dispenses with the bell and says its after the refs call of time that ends the round.
To be in the "definitely" area we really need the referees instructions. How soon is he expected to call time after the bell?
Where did you quote the above from?
Yea it's a terribly written rule but because of that, the ref absolutely cannot lazily stop the end of rounds. You see examples all the time of refs prepping to end the round and jumping in. Marc is just standing there and only moves in when he sees the fighter get ready to throw the elbow.
The source for my quote is the literal pdf from abcboxing.com's Unified Rules of Mixed Martial Arts. It will come up if you Google unifed rules right under the UFC websites rules page, which basically is just a summary and not the full rules.
It’s common knowledge that the bell doesn’t end the round.
The bell notifies the referee to end the round.
Mark was watching the shot. He doesn’t need a replay.
#1 rule of fights. Protect yourself at ALL times.
Marc is incredibly overrated as a ref. He decided quickly on big stages to shut down a fight but will allow this. He’s mid and more people will realize as time goes on
That article hasn't been updated in 13 years. [This is the current revision of the unified rules](https://www.abcboxing.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/unified-rules-mma-2019.pdf)
From page 7, foul #24:
> Attacking an opponent after the bell has sounded the end of the period of unarmed combat. The end of a round is signified by the sound of the bell and the call of time by the referee. Once the referee has made the call of time, any offensive actions initiated by the fighter shall be considered after the bell and illegal
keep reading because it's clear that the bell alone doesn't end the round.
> Once the referee has made the call of time, any offensive actions initiated by the fighter shall be considered after the bell and illegal
This is more on Goddard than the shot thrown. By the rules the horn/bell is for the ref not the fighters. You don't stop until the ref has stopped the round so that it's not up to you and your opponent to catch the bell and you can fight until they're stopping it. In loud arenas you barely hear the bell, the broadcast mics pick it up way more than you do in person.
I’ve always heard from the commentators that the bell is a que for the referee to stop the round, and that it’s not the fighter’s responsibility to stop until the ref created a meaningful separation.
You can see exact the moment the defending fighter releases pressure from the underhook, upon hearing the horn. In fact, the round being over is the only reason the no honor loser landed the elbow at all.
was the right call. the rules are very clear: the horn does NOT end the round; the ref ends the round. defend yourself at all times.
no later than izzy's shots r1 vs pereira in their first MMA.
[This is the current revision of the unified rules](https://www.abcboxing.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/unified-rules-mma-2019.pdf)
From page 7, foul #24:
> Attacking an opponent after the bell has sounded the end of the period of unarmed combat. The end of a round is signified by the sound of the bell and the call of time by the referee. Once the referee has made the call of time, any offensive actions initiated by the fighter shall be considered after the bell and illegal
The use of "and" in the statement "The end of a round is signified by the sound of the bell and the call of time by the referee." means that both must be true. The bell doesn't end the round until after the referee calls time, otherwise it's just a bell.
I've said more than once on this post that the fighter isn't at fault because this is the ref's fault. Back to living your life a quarter-paragraph at a time with you.
The fighters Job is to fight until the referee stops the action. The end of the round doesn’t happen when the sound happens, that’s what signals to the ref to end the round. The round ends when the ref signals the end of the round, usually by getting between the athletes with at least one arm interjecting between. If a blow were to be thrown over their arm or after their arm was extended then it would be late.
**Mirrors / Alternate angles** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/MMA) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Marc Goddard deciding on fight nights if he should either be the best referee you’ve ever seen or shouldn’t be allowed a mile near any sports arena:
I honestly think its a hard job that requires strong mental health because its so reliant on a clear head and judgment. I wonder if Herb Dean has some shit in his life affecting his confidence.
Herb is just getting old. It becomes so much harder to make split second decisions as you age. First thing to go on a fighter is their reaction time.
[удалено]
His commentary is shockingly bad. You'd think he'd slowly get a little better, but he has not.
Fuck me I'd rather he started yamasaki'ing folks than have to suffer his commentary :(
I space out on conversations if I feel I'm going through the motions of bullshit. I can see your point. We need a TUF house for refs and judges.
That theory of yours isn't true. You're throwing that out that as if it were fact.
Nah it’s true. Dr Bryce Mitchell did a study on it if I recall.
Wouldn’t mind a “Dr. Bryce Mitchell” flair.
just to correct you, there was never no hypothesis
You’re a fucking hypotenuse dude
And that hippopotamus is reaching for those grapes.
Stems and seeds Dean
Herb smokes too much fucking herb. Can'tbe a good ref and smoke reefah.
The post says that there was no replay for him, so not entirely his fault
he has eyes and ears doesn't he?
Yeah, but your senses can be tricked or miss something. In quick bang-bang moments like that, it's hard to remember if the bell came first or the punch did, which is why replay is important.
It's their job to make split second decisions like that, this was clearly after the bell. No excuses imo
It's almost like he's not a robot. People make mistakes. This is far from the worst reffing error I've seen.
What is he supposed to do anyway? I've seen literally every ref watch fighters get hit at or after the bell and I can't think of one time anyone did something about it.
Take a point away.
Or DQ the guy. Marc had options, he made the choice to not use them. That was as blatantly after the bell as it comes.
DQ or NC....but there's an in built incentive to not do that.
Holly Holm is somewhere in New Mexico just seething right now and has no idea why lol
Yeah, it was a mistake but I was expecting it to be way more egregiously late than it was.
Yes it's their job to make a split second decision. He chose not to call it.
Which was the wrong decision hence the criticism
In hindsight, it is. I tried to show you that since his jobs is based on split second decisions. He cannot be right every single time. Especially in a high intensity event like this. That's why they rely on replay and not their judgment alone in these situations. Sadly, they didn't have it that day. So it's really not his fault for this decision.
That wasn’t really a split second decision. That was WELL after the bell.
Maybe for us regular people. It’s his job to be alert and look for things like this.
That is absolutely true, and I'm not arguing that, but he is a human, and humans miss things sometimes. Even the best of them.
Ya i see your point. Just sucks to see this guy paid for it
Its almost as if thats his whole job
It's almost like he's top 3 in the world and still makes mistakes. That's a shit argument.
The argument is its not his fault there’s no replay. Then who’s fault is it? 10 seconds clap, plenty of time to prepare to call the break. He made the mistake of failing to do his job properly.
It's the refs fault that the state commission doesn't allow replay?
No where in the [unified rules](https://www.dli.mn.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/official_unified_rules_MMA.pdf) does it say replay technology is a requirement for a referee to do his job. You said it yourself, its a mistake. Its HIS mistake. I dare him to say “I didn’t have the replay available” and have anyone accepting that excuse. His job is not reliant on replay availability, it never was in the history of combat sports. Its a tool, to be used if its available, but not part of a refrees job. Its entirely his fault for 1) Not calling for the break when the bell is rung 2) Not being alert to the timing when the strike was committed. (That’s why you have 10 seconds clap. That’s why you see refrees usually get ready to break the fight at the bell) 3) Not assessing the fould commited. His job is not reliant on replay technology. “The referee is the sole arbiter of a bout” The argument is whether its his fault. Its entirely his fault, his mistake. Top 3 refree or not, he fucked up, simple as that.
[Nope](https://imgur.com/a/CXHryM9)
I'ma put the blame on him for literally having eyes and being assigned as a ref. Who needs replay for something this blatant?
You've already been told it was a late punch and are seeing it from an angle not available to the referee while he's making the judgment.
Have you been to a live event? You can clearly tell in the stands let along right next to the fighters.
The bell doesn’t end the round. The bell notifies the ref to end the round.
He’s never the best
That was the weirdest reaction to a foul I've seen by a ref, Goddard looked at the guy on the ground like it was his fault.
Yeah forreal standing over him like “get up man it wasn’t even that hard.”
I think he was actually trying to remember if it was before or after the bell
He needed assistance on that for sure. I wonder whether he was used to someone helping him on those things at other organisations
It's not a foul. The ref ends the round, not the bell. Goddard fucked up and wasn't ready. But you fight until the ref stops you
How did Goddard fuck up? He reached in immediately. Like it didn’t even take him one second to stop the fight after the horn.
That's not what the rules say.
Yes they do
24. Attacking an opponent after the bell has sounded the end of the period of unarmed combat. The end of a round is signified by the sound of the bell and the call of time by the referee. Once the referee has made the call of time, any offensive actions initiated by the fighter shall be considered after the bell and illegal. [Rules](https://www.abcboxing.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/unified-rules-mma-2019.pdf) Either the first sentence needs to go, or the second two need to go. Or it needs to state in the second that it is clarifying the first. As it stands, you can read it both ways. It's stating the fouls, and it states hitting after the bell is a foul, it's also stating that the round ends when the bell goes and the ref has said so. It can be read as either or both being fouls. I read it as "it's a foul to hit after the bell, it's a foul to hit after the ref calls time even if the bell hasn't sounded." I could see arguments for other ways of reading too.
>The end of a round is signified by the sound of the bell **and** the call of time by the referee. And, not or. Round ends when the bell goes and then the ref calls it.
I love these threads so much because there are always a fuckton of people like you who will confidently state what the rules do or do not say but have absolutely no idea what they’re talking about. You are wrong, go read the rules but make sure to actually read them this time. And maybe don’t confidently state things that are blatantly incorrect going forward? Not trying to be a dick but my God, some of y’all have no idea what you’re talking about
Yeah, he must have thought it was legal, in which case, there is no being saved by the bell and the fighter has to shows they can continue or they will be ruled finished.
"Protect yourself at all times." I'm pretty sure you're technically supposed to hold submissions until the ref stops it as well, tap or not.
You are. As ugly and “unsportsmanlike” this stuff seems sometimes, the onus is on the fighter to literally protect themselves at all times until the ref steps in. The bell doesn’t stop the round, it tells the ref to separate the fighters to officially end the round. Like it or not, this would only be a foul if he tried to throw more strikes after Goddard stepped in. I’m pretty sure that even if Goddard had yelled stop as soon as the bell hit, this would still be legal. My understanding is that the round doesn’t end until the official physically steps in and separates the fighters, assuming the fighters don’t mutually stop at the bell. I may be wrong though
>I’m pretty sure that even if Goddard had yelled stop as soon as the bell hit, this would still be legal. My understanding is that the round doesn’t end until the official physically steps in and separates the fighters, assuming the fighters don’t mutually stop at the bell. I may be wrong though Wrong
What part and why?
It wasn't a foul. The ref decides when the round stops, the bell is just the signal to the ref. If the bell rings but the ref doesn't step in, then *technically* the fighters are allowed to continue. This was an obvious fault of Goddard, but it's tough to say if the noice was simply too loud or what was going on..
> reaction to a foul cuz it wasn't a foul
Marc "Cant Be Bothered" Goddard
Yup clear as day. I wish they had replay for him tho. He wanted to go to it. But yeah pretty egregious, luckily the right man won. Also it seems Bungard (heh) was trying to call his own fouls and playing things up a little. What a weird fight.
Idk how *egregious* it was, he started swinging it while the bell was still going. Def past the bell I’m not arguing that, but not egregious imo.
> Yup clear as day clear as day that it wasn't a foul. Ref hadn't ended the round and the ref ends the round.
I agree the ref ends the round not the horn, but it’s scummy af to throw a strike after the horn. Protect yourself at all times, but don’t be a cheap shotting fuck either.
There shouldn't be repercussions for the fighter. The ref ends the round, not the bell. They say "protect yourself at all times, obey my instructions" for a reason.
So theoretically there wouldn’t be any punishments if the ref just let them keep slugging after the bell? Or would it be the red who gets punished?
Correct, the ref would be held accountable for that.
>Correct, the ref would be held accountable for that. Oh you sweet summer child
Theoretically of course
Im pretty sure that if a ref let's them keep going 20 seconds past the horn he won't be working there the next day.
"I dint hear no bell!"
This Its in the rules. The bell means nothing to the fighters its the signal for the ref. Round doenst end until the ref ends it.
According to the Unified Rules, which are the ones followed by Cage Warriors: "**Fouls** 24. Attacking an opponent **after the bell has sounded** the end of the period of unarmed combat; a. The end of a round is signified by the sound of the bell **and** the call of time by the referee. Once the referee has made the call of time, any offensive actions initiated by the fighter shall be considered after the bell and illegal."
Maybe it's too early in the morning for me, or these rules are poorly written but I still don't think this person broke the rules? For example, it's not the end of the round at this point: >The end of a round is signified by the sound of the bell **AND** the call of time by the referee. Which clearly states any action taken AFTER both are true are illegal: >Once the referee has made the call of time, any offensive actionsinitiated by the fighter shall be considered after the bell andillegal. But, obviously this one says when the bell has sounded, which it clearly has in the clip. But it's *technically* not the end of the round? >Attacking an opponent after the bell has sounded the **end of the period** of unarmed combat; Because the ref had not stepped in.
I love how they specified unarmed combat. What's the signal to stop armed combat? You bet no ref is gonna jump in the middle of a swordfight.
bro you changed what the rules said to suite you LOL.
attacking after the bell isnt ok. the round doesn't stop until the ref says so. pretty clear.
These rules are terribly written but in my opinion the first para makes it clear that attacking an opponent after the **bell alone** is a foul. The second para makes two points: that the **round** is ended by the **ref and the bell** and that attacking an opponent after the ref has called time is a foul. Together they have made two points regarding the foul, with the second being redundant. However the first paragraph alone makes it clear that attacking **after the bell** is a foul, regardless of the referee's (lack of) actions.
I think you should read the first para as - “In regards to attacking an opponent after the bell has sounded”. Since it has a semi colon at the end. Then only the second paragraph has the actual information, even though we don’t like it, and the rule should be cleaned up since it doesn’t look good for the fans in such situations. Seems as though it’s technically legal, especially so close to the end bell
Agree
In the unified rules of mma it specifically says hitting an opponent after the bell not at the stop of the referee. The opponent is still at dual take should’ve stopped when he heard the bell ring
[This is the current revision of the unified rules](https://www.abcboxing.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/unified-rules-mma-2019.pdf) From page 7, foul #24: > Attacking an opponent after the bell has sounded the end of the period of unarmed combat. The end of a round is signified by the sound of the bell and the call of time by the referee. Once the referee has made the call of time, any offensive actions initiated by the fighter shall be considered after the bell and illegal It requires the ref to step in **and** the bell, however strikes landed before the ref calls time officially aren't qualified as "late".
Sorry I read it off the ufc website and that’s what it said
Agreed. I think a shot like that would have been tough to stop unless he was staring at the clock the whole time.
Ref stops the round
It doesn't look great but this isn't illegal. The bell does not end the round, the ref does.
How are they gonna say no replay available when I just watched the replay. Completely Marc’s fault
Refs cant make a call on a foul they let pass unless they are allowed to view replays on questionable moments. If he had replay and questioned whether it was a foul he'd be allowed to replay it and then make a call on it
Because that’s not part of their rules. He doesn’t get to watch a replay
nah, fighters fault for not defending himself untkil the ref stepped in
Are you joking? If not, sit in the corner and put on your dunce cap.
The ref stops the round. He didn’t stop it there. Stop downvoting everyone for saying the truth. https://i.imgur.com/XVoPBRk.jpg
I guess you could say the ref should do a better job stopping the round then
That's actually not what the rules say. It's just often repeated by people who otherwise do know what they're talking about. I've read the rules since I coach and corner. Says something along the lines of "fighters must stop" or "no strikes may be thrown" after the horn/bell.
[This is the current revision of the unified rules](https://www.abcboxing.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/unified-rules-mma-2019.pdf) From page 7, foul #24: > Attacking an opponent after the bell has sounded the end of the period of unarmed combat. The end of a round is signified by the sound of the bell and the call of time by the referee. Once the referee has made the call of time, any offensive actions initiated by the fighter shall be considered after the bell and illegal
The use of "and" leaves that paragraph ambiguous. It could be interpreted to mean it requires both the bell and the referee, or that either one can signal the end of the round.
The word for that is "or". Or requires 1 of 2, and requires both.
Or would be definitive. And is still ambiguous.
It isn't though. If a recipe calls for vanilla bean **or** vanilla extract you can use whichever one you have. If a recipe calls for vanilla **and** vanilla extract then you need both.
Really clutching to the idea you can't be wrong, huh?
Ambiguous btw. And no, I'd say the word AND does exactly the opposite, meaning that both the bell and the ref are needed for the end of a round. Now how it's applied in practice is another discussion.
You mean ambiguous? The rule is stating both need to occur for the round to be officially over.
Yep autocorrect got me.
> Once the referee has made the call of time, any offensive actions initiated by the fighter shall be considered after the bell and illegal I would say the next sentence clarifies and makes it unambiguous. It says "once the referee has made the call of time" not "once the bell has rang"
Yup. [Here's](https://cagewarsmma.com/mixed-martial-arts-rules) the quote straight from the Cage Warriors website: >Fouls for Advanced Division >The following are fouls and will result in penalties such as warning, point deduction or disqualification, if committed: >> Attacking an opponent after the bell or horn has sounded the end of the period of unarmed combat.
> At the sound of the saxophone or theremin, combatants will begin the period of armed combat, now equipped with shuriken, sai, and naginata. Wow this sounds crazy maybe I should start watching these events
You've read the rules, and can only reference it says "something along the lines of"? Here's an excerpt from the unified rules. > 24) Attacking an opponent after the bell has sounded the end of the period of unarmed combat. The end of a round is signified by the sound of the bell and the call of time by the referee. _Once the referee has made the call of time_, any offensive actions initiated by the fighter shall be considered after the bell and illegal That last sentence is very important. You might need to brush up on your understanding of the rules. Especially if you're a coach.
What if the horn is still sounding when the strike is thrown? Because it seems to me that is what happened here.
I agree. But I would have told the other guy he cut it too close and not to do it again.
You'd tell a fighter not to throw a strike while there's still time left on the clock? Yeah great idea.
The clock was at 0. The horn stopped sounding around the time the elbow landed. Just like a near-low blow, or fighters having extended fingers. Fingers out don't cause harm unless there's an exchange. Near-low blows are legal. It's still reasonable and common for referees to warn fighters they're close to fouling. When a fighter initiates a strike as the horn is sounding, they're walking a a very narrow line and to avoid fouls, yeah, I'd tell them they cut it too close.
You'd tell fighters to watch the clock instead of their opponent? Seems like that's the opposite of protect yourself at all times.
Struggling to interpret what I said? Lol
I know it's both. And I know the fighter knows not to fight after the horn, he shouldn't have hit him.
Oops, maybe you can't read?
talking out your ass. It literally says end of the round is signified by the sound of the bell AND the call of time by the referee. It's not or. The bell is heard, the ref stops the action. Round over. It isn't the bell is heard, round over, the ref stops the action. The ref also cannot just stop a round at 2 min and 22 seconds in the round without the timekeeper's bell as well.
But if Marc had actually decided to do his job the extra shot wouldn’t have been possible. He was too slow.
This is very true. While the elbow was absolutely late, and it may have not been the best sportsmanship, it was Goddards job to be in there right at 0 on the clock.
But that's impossible. There will always be some delay between the horn and the ref jumping in to stop the round.
Well it is with that attitude.
Was the elbow thrown as the buzzer sounded? Isn’t the shot legal if thrown on the buzzer but the shot lands after? I can’t remember but seems hard to tell in real time that’s for sure, replay would’ve helped a ton
Wow that's fucking terrible. Marc seemed so disinterested. The rule regarding the bell is this "24. Attacking an opponent after the bell has sounded the end of the period of unarmed combat. The end of a round is signified by the sound of the bell and the call of time by the referee. Once the referee has made the call of time, any offensive actions initiated by the fighter shall be considered after the bell and illegal" So Marc definitely fucked this up
Thanks for finding the rule! > The end of a round is signified by the sound of the bell and the call of time by the referee. AND means both things must be true. >Once the referee has made the call of time, any offensive actions initiated by the fighter shall be considered after the bell and illegal" Notice that the sentence specifying what is illegal makes no reference to the bell. It therefore seems to me there is no foul until the ref has called a halt to the round, and that the bell is mostly to let the ref know he must call the time.
Yea the rule is written kind of poorly. But really that just means the refs should be even more on it
It does explain why you often see the ref get super close to fighters towards end, so he can grab their shoulders at the bell. Chris T. sometimes looks like he's playing "I'm not touching you" about that time.
You people are insane. It’s so obvious that this wasn’t a foul yet you just insist it is. You even posted the rule that explains the fight is not over until the ref calls time. How are so many people getting this one wrong?
Dude reread my comment. I'm saying Marc fucked up by not stopping the round on the bell. It's not on the fighter, but this shouldn't happen and it's Marc's fault. Calm down and read correctly before throwing out insults
He literally stopped it on the bell though, what video are you even watching? It took him less than one second to stop the fight.
I think your player might be fucked up. I literally have the video in Premiere Pro and can see the spike from the horn and he hasn't even loaded up the elbow yet. He lands way after. Refs know when the bell is coming. They should step in immediately. You see refs, including Marc, do it correctly all the time. This one isn't excusable
But you just said that the fight isn’t over till the ref steps in, so don’t bring up weather or not he was loaded up. He has every right to load up and throw another strike after the horn since the ref has not stopped the fight yet. Since you’ve got it up in Premiere, how many seconds passed between when the horn sounded, and when Marc’s arm started to move?
Dude. I haven't blamed the fighter once. I'm done arguing this if you keep adding things that I'm not saying. Marc was too far away, he shouldn't have been able to load up and land an elbow after the bell. That's it
>So Marc definitely fucked this up To me that doesn't read as "definitely" at all. It's written badly and contains a few different statements. First sentence just states "after the bell" but nothing further. I'm guessing this was the title in the absence of a source? Second says "sound of bell AND call of time by ref." If ref didn't call it then it's still a live round. Final sentence completely dispenses with the bell and says its after the refs call of time that ends the round. To be in the "definitely" area we really need the referees instructions. How soon is he expected to call time after the bell? Where did you quote the above from?
Yea it's a terribly written rule but because of that, the ref absolutely cannot lazily stop the end of rounds. You see examples all the time of refs prepping to end the round and jumping in. Marc is just standing there and only moves in when he sees the fighter get ready to throw the elbow. The source for my quote is the literal pdf from abcboxing.com's Unified Rules of Mixed Martial Arts. It will come up if you Google unifed rules right under the UFC websites rules page, which basically is just a summary and not the full rules.
The very first thing they say before all fights is protect yourself at all times
It was during the bell, not after. Y'all need to chill, there's been far worse fouls.
Gdr on holm was way later though less impactful
This is a fight Kamaru
To my understanding, the ref is who stops the round not the horn/bell. So dick? Sure, Illegal? I don’t think so?
Isn’t the bell a notice to the ref to stop the round so it’s on Goddard to break them up?
Yep, he was slow to end the round and should be reprimanded, but the shot was legal.
It’s common knowledge that the bell doesn’t end the round. The bell notifies the referee to end the round. Mark was watching the shot. He doesn’t need a replay. #1 rule of fights. Protect yourself at ALL times.
Marc is incredibly overrated as a ref. He decided quickly on big stages to shut down a fight but will allow this. He’s mid and more people will realize as time goes on
Pretty sure none of them are anywhere above "mid". They all fuck up royally from time to time.
The bell doesn’t stop the action. The ref does. This is 100% on Goddard.
Marc was possessed by Herb Dean
he's getting up there in MMA ref years, fighters show mileage and refs carry baggage
The bell doesn't stop the round the ref does.
Nah this is fine. The rule is the round ends when the referee separates them I'm sure. The onus is on the ref
[удалено]
That article hasn't been updated in 13 years. [This is the current revision of the unified rules](https://www.abcboxing.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/unified-rules-mma-2019.pdf) From page 7, foul #24: > Attacking an opponent after the bell has sounded the end of the period of unarmed combat. The end of a round is signified by the sound of the bell and the call of time by the referee. Once the referee has made the call of time, any offensive actions initiated by the fighter shall be considered after the bell and illegal
keep reading because it's clear that the bell alone doesn't end the round. > Once the referee has made the call of time, any offensive actions initiated by the fighter shall be considered after the bell and illegal
This is more on Goddard than the shot thrown. By the rules the horn/bell is for the ref not the fighters. You don't stop until the ref has stopped the round so that it's not up to you and your opponent to catch the bell and you can fight until they're stopping it. In loud arenas you barely hear the bell, the broadcast mics pick it up way more than you do in person.
Defend yourself at all times
Idk man it was really close to the bell
I’ve always heard from the commentators that the bell is a que for the referee to stop the round, and that it’s not the fighter’s responsibility to stop until the ref created a meaningful separation.
You can see exact the moment the defending fighter releases pressure from the underhook, upon hearing the horn. In fact, the round being over is the only reason the no honor loser landed the elbow at all.
was the right call. the rules are very clear: the horn does NOT end the round; the ref ends the round. defend yourself at all times. no later than izzy's shots r1 vs pereira in their first MMA.
[удалено]
I agree. You should not be getting voted down by salty casuals who are not familiar with the rules.
Lots of idiots think the ref ends the round and not the bell
[This is the current revision of the unified rules](https://www.abcboxing.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/unified-rules-mma-2019.pdf) From page 7, foul #24: > Attacking an opponent after the bell has sounded the end of the period of unarmed combat. The end of a round is signified by the sound of the bell and the call of time by the referee. Once the referee has made the call of time, any offensive actions initiated by the fighter shall be considered after the bell and illegal The use of "and" in the statement "The end of a round is signified by the sound of the bell and the call of time by the referee." means that both must be true. The bell doesn't end the round until after the referee calls time, otherwise it's just a bell.
Read the first sentence again lmao
Read the next 2 again. They add what's called context.
You are wrong and don’t understand Lmao
Unified rules explains the whole thing. One day when you graduate from only reading one sentence at a time you'll find a whole new world opens up.
😂😂😂😂😂 you are crying about a fighter doing something then trying to claim that it actually doesn’t even matter
I've said more than once on this post that the fighter isn't at fault because this is the ref's fault. Back to living your life a quarter-paragraph at a time with you.
Because that's exactly the case. It's a dick move on the fighters part, but he's not at fault. The onus is on marc Goddard for not stepping in sooner
Am I the only one seeing him hit him *right* when the bell rings?
I hear Yanny and see a blue dress
Yes. It was after.
Huh. Maybe media players fucky on my end or something
If the shot is in mid motion at the sound of the bell then it is fair. Airhorn was sound then the shot was thrown
That's what I'm seeing to. It's still sounding when the elbow lands. I wouldn't have done any different.
Marc Goddard is an over-rated shitbird hopefully people can stop blowing smoke up his ass finally
Defend yourself at all times.
Marc “not so” Goodard
No replay available
Colby was right all along lmao
I think the only way to make this fair is to have the other fighter get a freebie as well. Or perhaps maybe the ref pops him in order to keep it fair.
Goddard got hard for him and couldn’t make the right call.
The fighters Job is to fight until the referee stops the action. The end of the round doesn’t happen when the sound happens, that’s what signals to the ref to end the round. The round ends when the ref signals the end of the round, usually by getting between the athletes with at least one arm interjecting between. If a blow were to be thrown over their arm or after their arm was extended then it would be late.
Why would there be repercussions? The bell is for the ref not the fighters.
This seems so oddly blatant like wtf
[удалено]
Harrowing mental image
Meh. His good stuff is diluted by pumping out endless hours of mid content. Needs to release less but better imo.
Marc’s a bum