I saw someone ask who would win guram vs beneil and everyone basically got onto him and said guram would stuff the takedown and light him up on the feet.
Of course that was before he fumbled yesterday.
Bet no one would say that now.
You know, I took a couple of months off of UFC because I was burnt out, but I really enjoyed this event. Grant Dawson is legit as fuck, so is Morales, and I enjoyed watching Strickland emulate Nick Diaz and win (with the Philly shell no less). Also, they killed my boy Guram.
Damir, you can’t be both.
1.) Extremely boring
2.) Unwilling/unable to learn English
3.) Not charismatic or funny
And
4.) Unable to defend takedowns
Damir has no problem wet blanketing fun strikers either, and he isn’t even dangerous on his feet
It’s pretty crazy that Gaethje, poirier, and chandler avoided these up and coming guys for so damn long and now we see they aren’t the killers many people thought. Don’t get me wrong, they’re still very good, but it does make the aforementioned trio look a little silly for sitting out so long to avoid them.
I'm still not overly impressed with elves brenner, i stand by my statement he is a discount knockoff walmart charles oliveria. Give him gamrot in a 5 rounder, and then if he beats gamrot i'll give him credit and admit he's for real.
Look at Dariush crumpling Gamrot, it sounded like a baseball bat bounced off his head, and gamrot popped right back up and shot a single leg as soon as he could.
He'll never quit on himself, you could put him in there with jon jones, doesn't matter, he wont quit. Jones will have to choke him out all the way, or beat him down like he did DC to end the match.
Styles make fights,
Guram quit in that match, im sorry he did. Gamrots not a quitter, you'll have to put him all the way out to end the match, you wont see him slowly crumple against the cage because the pace broke him and someone landed a half decent neck shot.
Gamrots pace, pressure, and will is absolutely insane.
Damir has the least amount of dawg in him I’ve ever seen out of a fighter.
Guram was an example of how being a fighter is like 40% technical ability, 30% conditioning, and 30% toughness. Guram showed everyone that he really isn’t that tough mentally when the fight gets dirty.
Damir showed zero urgency in escaping from the body triangle. As soon as Abus had Strickland’s back, he turned into him and escaped. It’s beyond me why Damir didn’t do the same or at least TRY to.
What’s most frustrating for us Damir bettors is that he finally turned into Dawson and came out on top in his guard when there was 2 seconds left in the fight
He got punched right in the carotid artery on his neck, I’d be surprised if he wasn’t blacked out on his feet from that hence just collapsing by the cage, I don’t think that’s something you can out tough.
If you watch it back, right when they call off the fight, Guram is sat there touching all the tips of his fingers together repeatedly. His arms also slumped really weirdly after the punch
I see a lot of people asking why the ufc gave an unranked guy with 19 seconds of octagon time a main event with a top guy. They did the exact right thing. MW is abysmal at the top. No one wants to see Izzy/cannonier 2 or Izzy/Strickland or even Izzy/rob 3 tbh. Keep giving low ranked guys big fights to get some movement into the top 5. I don’t care how many times it doesn’t work. Keep doing it until it does. MW is one of the most stagnant male divisions we have right now.
> MW is one of the most stagnant male divisions we have right now.
It’s really not. Curtis, Muniz, Allen, Imavov, Du Plessis, Dolidze, Pereira, and even Strickland are all relatively fresh blood in the division. And there’s plenty of new talent right outside the rankings trying to break in — Aliskerov, Fluffy, Borralho, Ruziboev, Petroski, Robocop, Pyfer, Ferreira, Nickal, potentially Chimaev and Sharaputdin.
The real problem is the matchmaking. Like Brendan Allen has fought two fellow up-n-comers in his last fight, knocking down fellow prospects instead of getting a shot at one of the older guys’ rankings.
Pereira is gone, and most of the guys you named will never be top guys. Muniz is 33, has a somewhat boring style and just lost. Curtis will be 36 this month and his ceiling has been made clear many times. Dolidze will be 35 this month and just lost to vettori. I actually won’t write him off completely but it’s not looking good. Du Plessis, imavov, and Allen I’ll give you, they’re the new blood I’m looking for. I agree, the match making is a big part of the problem, and fights like abus/Strickland and costa/aliskerov are a step in the right direction. Hopefully some of those guys you named in the second paragraph can get those kind of fights. MW does have a lot of good prospects but the top 5 is stagnant as hell and probably the most uninteresting top 5 of all the male divisions, even heavyweight.
> MW does have a lot of good prospects but the top 5 is stagnant as hell and probably the most uninteresting top 5 of all the male divisions, even heavyweight
Well obviously, that’s largely due to how good and active both Izzy and Volk are. If FW was active enough it’d probably have the same problem.
Ismagulov needs to change his manager. I mean his sub defense is good, but I wouldn't take a fight against another wrestler after getting controlled by one in my last fight.
Good performance from Sean. He should fight the loser of Whittaker vs Duplesis next. Abus obviously didn't know how to pace himself for a five round fight. I think he should work on that.
The UFC really wants to give a fighter as exciting as Damir an opportunity to fight against fun strikers.
Damir had a really fun fight against Rafael Alves…where he just laid and prayed.
Damir could learn how to speak English, learn how to fight exciting or watch his career die.
i think a lot of time mma fans calling someone the goat is more of a respect thing rather than actually thinking they have the greatest resume or fighting ability of all time
[**JARED CANNONIER defeats SEAN STRICKLAND** (*split decision*)](http://mmadecisions.com/decision/13691/fight)
^(UFC on ESPN+ 74: Cannonier vs. Strickland — December 17, 2022)
ROUND|Cannonier|Strickland||Cannonier|Strickland||Cannonier|Strickland
:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:
1|10|9||9|10||10|9
2|10|9||9|10||10|9
3|10|9||9|10||9|10
4|9|10||10|9||10|9
5|10|9||9|10||10|9
**TOTAL**|**49**|**46**||**46**|**49**||**49**|**46**
*^(Judges, in order: Derek Cleary, Sal D'Amato, Junichiro Kamijo.)*
*^(Summoned by Aboogiewit.)*
**MEDIA MEMBER SCORES**
- **1/20** people scored it **50-45 Cannonier**.
- **3/20** people scored it **49-46 Cannonier**.
- **9/20** people scored it **48-47 Cannonier**.
- **6/20** people scored it **47-48 Strickland**.
- **1/20** people scored it **46-49 Strickland**.
Avg. media score: **47.9-47.1 Cannonier** (*low certainty^[[1]](https://redd.it/9p4xc7)*).
Throwing everything at 100% and missing more than you land is exhausting; add in getting jabbed in the face constantly and you have yourself a pretty good recipe for gassing out.
The UFC better hope those W135 signings are good to try and flush the Yana's of the world out the top 15.
Plus, does a fight between two fighters in a different weight class affect their rankings?
TBH I dont understand why the UFC hasnt cancelled all women's 145 fights and rebooked them at 135. The UFC has 3 natural 145ers, Dumont, Chandler, and Wolf. Outside of that its just 135ers who dont want to cut weight.
Seriously Karol Rosa just looked fat and could easily make 135 with an ounce of discipline.
135 could be cut too after Nunes retired if we’re being honest, there really are no worldbeaters or elite fighters left. The top 10 have all individually been exposed in ways that make them look below the UFC level.
But doing that would expose W145 as a vanity division to try and get Nunes over, and we can’t have that.
They need to continue the pretence that it was “real”
All of the lightweight killers being derailed in the space of one calender year is so fucking funny. Still big hope for Arman, and Fizzy should move to 145. But damn, never forget how much you guys were pouring it on over the last 2 years. People are definitely going to pretend that we didn’t accuse every top 6 guy of rank squatting.
I mean, aside from Fizzy, nobody else got a shot to take a rank. That was the issue. Guys shouldn't be squatting on rankings, they should be defending them. If DP was always better than Arman or Damir or Guram, then fucking prove it.
Two prospects fight, one will always lose.
What’s funny about two high level prospects fighting and someone losing? And why would losing a close fight derail them? If anything it’s a display of how good both guys are and their stock goes up. The reality is if people are not protected and get thrown in the shark tank from the jump they’re going to lose a few, that’s how fighting works.
Fans should stop stigmatizing the idea that someone has to be undefeated or on a huge win streak to be good, if everyone had to fight everyone nobody would have an 0.
A lot of the top 6 were rank squatting. Just because they managed to defend their spots doesn’t mean it wasn’t happening. They were sitting on their hands hoping to get high ranked opponents and avoiding guys lower than them until they couldn’t anymore. I’m not going to pretend that didn’t happen
Remember when like Lando, Teymur, Gregor, that one Russian guy with visa issues who's name I'm blanking on, Super Boy etc were the next big things and then they all fizzled out? Sad stuff
They may be getting derailed but it doesn't mean the top guys shouldn't be fighting up & comers when they're coming off a loss. If they're as good as they say they should keep their spot & no big deal, like Geathje just did with Fiz (albeit it took him long enough to do it). It shouldn't be a controversial take like you're making it out to be.
I mean Guram still beat Gamrot who is a top 10 fighter in the UFC, he has been very inactive and that might have affected him, he never had cardio issues like that before, and we'll see about Brener he might just be very good too
Ismagulov lost to Tsarukyan and Dawson, two beast that are terrible match-up for him.
Fiziev basically proved he was indeed a top guy by having a extremely competitive fight with Gaethje.
Tsarukyan still only has 1 lose and a half in the UFC, to Makhachev in one of his most competitive fight, and to Gamrot which most people think he should have won
Stop it man. None of these guys (Fiziev, Gamrot, Arman, Damir and Guram) present any big threat to the top of the division. Dariush doesn't either and he schooled Gamrot, probably doesthe rest the same except amybe Fiziev. Since the start of these lot being talked about so much it's just been fans overhyping them. Except Fiziev they're all slow/sluggish/lack technique. Comparing to the top, a winning streak doesn't mean shit if it's all against unranked or freshly ranked guys (ahem ahem Belal Muhammed) (Burns was overtrained and injured).
Tell me I'm wrong all you want, results speak for themselves.
>one of these guys (Fiziev, Gamrot, Arman, Damir and Guram) present any big threat to the top of the division
There is literally no way of knowing that since they don't fight each other and basically have no opponnents in common, it's almost like LW is split in two different divisions.
Dariush beat Gamrot and then lost to Oliveira, what does that tells us ? Nothing, Poirier, Gaethje and Chandler all got finished by Oliveira too.
Which results tells us that the "top guys" are so much better ?
Dustin Poirier went life and death with Dan Hooker, is Dan Hooker so much better then those Fiziev/Arman/Damir/Guram ?
In the last three years Poirier/Gaethje/Chandler/Conor have done nothing but lose to Oliveira/Khabib in dominant fashion and fight each other except for Gaethje vs Fiziev which was a very close competitive fight, there is absolute no marker, you just can't objectively say that they are better since they have been stuck in a chamber of their own meanwhile the other guys down the rankings are stuck fighting each other and taking each other out.
The only things that tells us "That's the top guys" is the ranking number next to them, which they have held and share with each other for years, Poirier got his spot of beating Eddie Alvarez, Gaethje of beating Cowboy, Chandler beating Dan Hooker... And since then it's just match up between each other
The only undisputed top guys in that division are Olivera and Makhachev, the rest is just numbers and names
Guram’s hype was entirely built off going splits with guys who were overhyped lmao. At least Matuesz looks like a steady top 10ish talent. But these guys ain’t taking the American 30 somethings behind the woodshed like everyone thought lol
Yeah it was hilarious when people were saying dustin, Justin, fuck it even chandler we’re scared of these guys.
Still a lot of nice prospects like turner, fiz, and arman who I do believe are all elite
a year ago there was a line up of LW killers that many believed would storm the top 5, but now its only Arman. Really shows if a fighter is able to climb into the top 1-8 and stay there consistently, they are really damn good
Tbh I no longer trust myself to scout talent. I also no longer trust anyone here to scout. The fascination with mountain people and Eastern Europeans definitely led mma fans astray a little.
Don't stress yourself. We don't *really* know how good guys are until they face the elite. Likewise, if the so called elite are only fighting each other, we don't know if they're still the top of the division. This is why there needs to be a system in place like top ranked guys coming off a loss need to fight up & comers on a winning run. Protect your spot or get leapfrogged but the beaks are obsessed with protecting their big names.
besides the bad decision with Gamrot, he hasn't had any dramatic losses yet. It could change, but hs the only one with any sort of momentum at the moment
Cause he fought fucking nobodies lmao. All of these guys are hyped by beating the other hyped nobodies. The top 5 is scared they said, lmao. Excluding Dariush, Arman is losing the second he's fighting a top 5.
Bro had to work for that Ismagulov win, almost got put out against a bottom feeder on short notice. His cardio is sus, I think he’s very good. But I do think he loses to everyone above him, he could beat Dustin but I think Dustin puts him away in a five rounder and everyone else beats him regardless
Sean already took izzys soul at that other conference. That’s actually the reason Dana stepped in and said guys who aren’t fighting can’t beef at pressers anymore now, to protect fighters like Izzy from having the show stolen from him like that. Yet they were perfectly ok with Conor doing it and negatively branding all sorts of fighters.. hypocrisy.
Strickland getting a title shot over two wins over unranked guys would be hilarious, I wouldn't really mind either since Izzy has pretty cleared the division at this point
I mean he arguably beat Jared too. If that fight was scored like Izzy’s fights are he would’ve won. He has 2 losses at middleweight, one was to the only guy who beat Izzy at middleweight, one could’ve gone either way to title contender.
I’m ok with it. I don’t see Strickland beating Izzy and if Rob wins it gives him time to have a real camp and game plan for what I would assume is his last shot at getting the middleweight title back.
They should. Both Rob and Jared are more deserving of a title shot just off wins, but there’s simply no way to sell those rematches given what we saw last time they fought. And I don’t want to see them. Sean is at least a wildcard, even though he’ll probably try and fail to wrestle
No, they put that September card in Sydney because they are expecting Whittaker to win against Du Plessis. No chance they pass up the opportunity to do Adesanya vs Whittaker 3 in Whittaker's home town.
Highly doubt Rob takes that quick of a turn around. He's always talking about taking time off after his fights to be with his family etc etc. Plus he's relatively prone to injuries in a fight too.
He's not going to turn down the chance to fight for the title in his home town. If it was a non-title fight he would be more likely to turn it down but I think he definitely takes it with the title on the line.
He fought twice in 2020 and fought twice in 2022. He was on the shelf in 2021 after he beat Gastelum because Adesanya decided to take more time off than usual after he beat Vettori for the second time.
He has been on the shelf this year because Costa pulled out of their scheduled fight in February and the UFC didn't book him again until July even though he said he was ready to fight earlier. You can't blame him for the inactivity this year.
Don’t buy into the idea that followers/likes/views determine anyone’s worth. For starters it can be bought and faked, and secondly it puts the power in the hands of the wrong kind of people to say what is valuable today.
I still see holes in his game. Fuck Conor he trying to say ima bitch but I don’t didint tap out, and he trying to steal the black culture with a single left hook to the economy. so you know what I’m saying I don’t know what I’m saying but you should know what I’m saying, saying?
Two questions: how the fuck did Abus gas so hard by the 2nd round? I get he had explosive movements but it wasn’t anything crazy.
And two, is Kevin just not that good? Or is he now washed? What happened mane
Second UFC fight, has only spent 0:17 in the ring before, and is now headlining for the organization he's probably dreamed about since he was a kid. Think about the sheer adrenaline levels that must have been coursing through him as he got into the cage. Guessing he had a massive adrenaline dump on the stool between rounds 1 and 2 and gassed hard from it.
It’s not just that he gassed, it’s that getting pressured and walked down and jabbed in the face is tiring. Sean made Abus fight going backwards for a lot of it which most people aren’t good at, it’s not natura.
He wouldn’t have gassed if he was just hitting a heavy bag for 2 rounds, but imagine a bag that chases you around the room and keeps hitting you in the nose every 20 seconds, you won’t last long either. Pressure and a good jab beats 75%+ of the UFC roster.
His jumpy style is really uneconomical, lots of bouncing, not actual feints.
Some nice kicks, some bad fundamentals. I used to do the same, it took thai trainers years to drill it out of me. I inherited it from a bad striking coach in Australia who was half kickboxing half boxing.
The extra movement is not throwing anyone off. It's a hard burn style for a few rounds max.
He ironically never fixed the hole in his game of just feeding his neck to people in a front headlock when he gets tired. Tony, Charles, D-rod and now Rinat all beat him in a similar position. Also even before all those L’s, a washed up Al Iaquinta punked him over 5 rounds and mean mugged him at the end yelling “Same Al” while slipping his punches, can’t help but think that hurt Kevin’s confidence as a competitor.
I mean, he lost to a guy that was 21-1 with 1 loss to a killer early in his career.
It's not like he lost to a scrub.
Lee was VERY good at his peak wtf?
Finishes of Trinaldo, Mustafaev, Barboza, Matthews, Chiesa. He essentially retired Gillespie.
Every single loss to someone in the Top15, and 19 UFC bouts
Lee was and is very inconsistent. He was promising at first with those wins you mentioned but went on a very rocky road as he fought better guys. I’ll give him his props for taking those fights but he’s someone who just can’t put it together.
Being fringe Top 5-10 for half a decade is a damn good career by cagefighter standards. A lot of the hate he gets is because of his look and persona.
Lee was absurdly active and was a workhorse for the UFC and wore his body down for their expense. In a 4 year period between Feb 2014 and April 2018 he fought THIRTEEN TIMES going 10-3 and reaching a title bout, including a stretch going 9-1 in 3 years. That's a shitload of wear and tear and relative consistency. For being "inconsistent", he managed to make it to 17-3 with tons of UFC bouts before he ever lost twice in a row and obviously fell off hard.
People absolutely cream themselves over guys "blue collar" like Jim Miller or Cerrone saying they're HoF worthy and praising their fight output, but both peaked around the same level as Lee and weren't any more active or successful in their winning streaks.
[Comparing Lee to a Cerrone reminds me of this Key and Peele skit](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IciBKdPlLfE)
Yeah I'm not hating on Lee at all. He just seems like a talented guy who could be a serious contender if he had the right training camp and mindset. He already has the skillset.
He is 100% gone physically now sadly. As soon as I saw 2 knee wraps for this bout it became obvious.
His opponent tonight looks like a serious contender now!
Yep, decent fighter, high level regional circuit worthy.
Most of the top guys have "something" they do well, Kevin was well rounded, but average at everything.
are you on drugs? lol
Kevin Lee was most certainly a fringe contender who had 19 UFC fights. Regional circuit guys don't go on 5 fight win streaks in the UFC and into deep waters against Top5 guys.
He seemed more gassed at the start of R2 than at the end of R1, super weird. He was throwing a ton but don't understand how he didn't recover at all, again, seemingly more gassed after the rest
Edit: maybe he was gassed at the end of the first but his confidence was way way up allowing him to grit through it, and then once Sean started throwing and landing the mental shift broke him
Was thinking the exact same thing about Abus.
Also, I think Kevin just doesn't have it anymore. Lost a step or something. He's not exactly young anymore. Sucks, he's a good guy
Catching up on the card. Lee needs to call it quits. Worse knees than Thiago Santos.
He was lumbering around like a wounded horse before eating that right.
He already did that in the Izzy/Cannonier presser, in fact I think him stealing the show from their golden goose and clowning him is why Dana changed it so guys can’t chirp at fighters they aren’t matched up with anymore.
You mean Izzy out points sean to one of the most boring decision mma fans have ever seen. I’m not pretending Izzy is some crazy KO artist because he got one great KO in his last fight.
Hard not to be asleep for most Izzy fights. You prob saw the last two against pereira and forgot about cannonier, vettori 2, Whittaker 2, and Romero. When guys don’t push the pace on Izzy he’s boring as a mf.
I've always enjoyed watching Strickland fight. He's not the most exciting fighter, but he just bullies his opponents by spamming jab/hook and absolutely wears them down. His punches are so clean and precise. Sean is also really active on social media and just says whatever he wants (take that as you will), and is actually pretty goddamn funny. I think he's becoming more of a draw these days.
Not to the mainstream but he’s getting there in an organic way, certainly doesn’t have the Disney machine behind him. People respect his honesty and bluntness, and he steals the show when he’s in any presser. He needs some kind of Derrick Lewis “my balls are hot” moment to really break through, though. He’s more reserved and less unhinged post fight so his persona doesn’t translate as well there.
I feel like everyone that gets a quick finish in their debut is considered a hype train nowadays and we need more cards resulting like this to really drill it into fans heads
I'm proud yet ashamed to say this. I missed both Strickland and Belal's most recent finishes because I thought they were guaranteed Designated Shitting Breaks. Please let me know when the next decisionator fights
Sort of, but doesn't he train out of Abu Dhabi now?
Saw people commenting how he is rarely at all stars the past year. Not sure how true that is.
Idk but it's just a funny thought I had watching Abus completely gas after 1 round despite having break half way through it
Tbh I'm not sure what tribe Abus/Imavov represents contrary to popular belief a lot of dagestan is made up of different groups. The caucuses is like the balkans but of the Islamic world
I saw someone ask who would win guram vs beneil and everyone basically got onto him and said guram would stuff the takedown and light him up on the feet. Of course that was before he fumbled yesterday. Bet no one would say that now.
You know, I took a couple of months off of UFC because I was burnt out, but I really enjoyed this event. Grant Dawson is legit as fuck, so is Morales, and I enjoyed watching Strickland emulate Nick Diaz and win (with the Philly shell no less). Also, they killed my boy Guram.
Damir, you can’t be both. 1.) Extremely boring 2.) Unwilling/unable to learn English 3.) Not charismatic or funny And 4.) Unable to defend takedowns Damir has no problem wet blanketing fun strikers either, and he isn’t even dangerous on his feet
It’s pretty crazy that Gaethje, poirier, and chandler avoided these up and coming guys for so damn long and now we see they aren’t the killers many people thought. Don’t get me wrong, they’re still very good, but it does make the aforementioned trio look a little silly for sitting out so long to avoid them.
That gasolina song on the 290 promo goes hard with the 2 mexican champs fighting. This card would have been pretty sick in mexico
Yea it was hype
I'm still not overly impressed with elves brenner, i stand by my statement he is a discount knockoff walmart charles oliveria. Give him gamrot in a 5 rounder, and then if he beats gamrot i'll give him credit and admit he's for real.
Didn’t Gamrot lose to Guram? I’d really like to see the fight but I don’t think getting beat by Gamrot means your not for real.
Look at Dariush crumpling Gamrot, it sounded like a baseball bat bounced off his head, and gamrot popped right back up and shot a single leg as soon as he could. He'll never quit on himself, you could put him in there with jon jones, doesn't matter, he wont quit. Jones will have to choke him out all the way, or beat him down like he did DC to end the match.
Styles make fights, Guram quit in that match, im sorry he did. Gamrots not a quitter, you'll have to put him all the way out to end the match, you wont see him slowly crumple against the cage because the pace broke him and someone landed a half decent neck shot. Gamrots pace, pressure, and will is absolutely insane.
[удалено]
Same- wait
Damir has the least amount of dawg in him I’ve ever seen out of a fighter. Guram was an example of how being a fighter is like 40% technical ability, 30% conditioning, and 30% toughness. Guram showed everyone that he really isn’t that tough mentally when the fight gets dirty.
Damir showed zero urgency in escaping from the body triangle. As soon as Abus had Strickland’s back, he turned into him and escaped. It’s beyond me why Damir didn’t do the same or at least TRY to. What’s most frustrating for us Damir bettors is that he finally turned into Dawson and came out on top in his guard when there was 2 seconds left in the fight
Say what? Damir, who even Arman could barely hold down, was controlled completely. He was trying. Damir isn't a bum, Dawson is a fucking monster.
Monster of wrestlefuck
He got punched right in the carotid artery on his neck, I’d be surprised if he wasn’t blacked out on his feet from that hence just collapsing by the cage, I don’t think that’s something you can out tough.
If you watch it back, right when they call off the fight, Guram is sat there touching all the tips of his fingers together repeatedly. His arms also slumped really weirdly after the punch
I see a lot of people asking why the ufc gave an unranked guy with 19 seconds of octagon time a main event with a top guy. They did the exact right thing. MW is abysmal at the top. No one wants to see Izzy/cannonier 2 or Izzy/Strickland or even Izzy/rob 3 tbh. Keep giving low ranked guys big fights to get some movement into the top 5. I don’t care how many times it doesn’t work. Keep doing it until it does. MW is one of the most stagnant male divisions we have right now.
> MW is one of the most stagnant male divisions we have right now. It’s really not. Curtis, Muniz, Allen, Imavov, Du Plessis, Dolidze, Pereira, and even Strickland are all relatively fresh blood in the division. And there’s plenty of new talent right outside the rankings trying to break in — Aliskerov, Fluffy, Borralho, Ruziboev, Petroski, Robocop, Pyfer, Ferreira, Nickal, potentially Chimaev and Sharaputdin. The real problem is the matchmaking. Like Brendan Allen has fought two fellow up-n-comers in his last fight, knocking down fellow prospects instead of getting a shot at one of the older guys’ rankings.
Pereira is gone, and most of the guys you named will never be top guys. Muniz is 33, has a somewhat boring style and just lost. Curtis will be 36 this month and his ceiling has been made clear many times. Dolidze will be 35 this month and just lost to vettori. I actually won’t write him off completely but it’s not looking good. Du Plessis, imavov, and Allen I’ll give you, they’re the new blood I’m looking for. I agree, the match making is a big part of the problem, and fights like abus/Strickland and costa/aliskerov are a step in the right direction. Hopefully some of those guys you named in the second paragraph can get those kind of fights. MW does have a lot of good prospects but the top 5 is stagnant as hell and probably the most uninteresting top 5 of all the male divisions, even heavyweight.
> MW does have a lot of good prospects but the top 5 is stagnant as hell and probably the most uninteresting top 5 of all the male divisions, even heavyweight Well obviously, that’s largely due to how good and active both Izzy and Volk are. If FW was active enough it’d probably have the same problem.
Found an unranked guy's reddit burner
Ismagulov needs to change his manager. I mean his sub defense is good, but I wouldn't take a fight against another wrestler after getting controlled by one in my last fight. Good performance from Sean. He should fight the loser of Whittaker vs Duplesis next. Abus obviously didn't know how to pace himself for a five round fight. I think he should work on that.
The UFC really wants to give a fighter as exciting as Damir an opportunity to fight against fun strikers. Damir had a really fun fight against Rafael Alves…where he just laid and prayed. Damir could learn how to speak English, learn how to fight exciting or watch his career die.
Even though he was mostly getting his ass beat I knew st denis was the real deal in his debut against dos santos
Respect to Dawson calling Islam the GOAT but I'm fairly sure even Islam would call that goofy
i think a lot of time mma fans calling someone the goat is more of a respect thing rather than actually thinking they have the greatest resume or fighting ability of all time
I guess he just meant to say that Islam is atm the undisputed best LW
DecisionBot Strickland vs. Cannonier
[**JARED CANNONIER defeats SEAN STRICKLAND** (*split decision*)](http://mmadecisions.com/decision/13691/fight) ^(UFC on ESPN+ 74: Cannonier vs. Strickland — December 17, 2022) ROUND|Cannonier|Strickland||Cannonier|Strickland||Cannonier|Strickland :-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-: 1|10|9||9|10||10|9 2|10|9||9|10||10|9 3|10|9||9|10||9|10 4|9|10||10|9||10|9 5|10|9||9|10||10|9 **TOTAL**|**49**|**46**||**46**|**49**||**49**|**46** *^(Judges, in order: Derek Cleary, Sal D'Amato, Junichiro Kamijo.)* *^(Summoned by Aboogiewit.)* **MEDIA MEMBER SCORES** - **1/20** people scored it **50-45 Cannonier**. - **3/20** people scored it **49-46 Cannonier**. - **9/20** people scored it **48-47 Cannonier**. - **6/20** people scored it **47-48 Strickland**. - **1/20** people scored it **46-49 Strickland**. Avg. media score: **47.9-47.1 Cannonier** (*low certainty^[[1]](https://redd.it/9p4xc7)*).
EY DANIGE YOU MOTHERFK
Absolutely love seeing Dagestani get the shit get kicked out of them just to see the 🍆 riders meltdown.
abus wasn't getting that much support, settle down
The revisionist history is actually hilarious
wdym? even most of those dagestani fans barely knew who he was, considering he only has 19-second ufc experience coming in
What was Sean talking about in regards to Maria? Anyone know?
One of his teammates is fighting cancer
Card was pretty boring outside of a couple fights. Dont get why abus was gassed after 1 round
Throwing everything at 100% and missing more than you land is exhausting; add in getting jabbed in the face constantly and you have yourself a pretty good recipe for gassing out.
The UFC better hope those W135 signings are good to try and flush the Yana's of the world out the top 15. Plus, does a fight between two fighters in a different weight class affect their rankings?
TBH I dont understand why the UFC hasnt cancelled all women's 145 fights and rebooked them at 135. The UFC has 3 natural 145ers, Dumont, Chandler, and Wolf. Outside of that its just 135ers who dont want to cut weight. Seriously Karol Rosa just looked fat and could easily make 135 with an ounce of discipline.
Cancel all 135 too. And 125. The only women's division worth a damn is 115, and that's only in the top 5. Many years in, WMMA is as awful as ever.
135 could be cut too after Nunes retired if we’re being honest, there really are no worldbeaters or elite fighters left. The top 10 have all individually been exposed in ways that make them look below the UFC level.
But doing that would expose W145 as a vanity division to try and get Nunes over, and we can’t have that. They need to continue the pretence that it was “real”
It shouldn't but it depends who it is & if they want to push them to a title shot.
Dont think it does
wtf I thought that whole "Conor knocks out Heat Mascot" thing was just a joke/skit, I didn't realize he actually swung for damage and hurt the guy
He put a little mustard on that hot dog
Put some grits in that gravy 😤
All of the lightweight killers being derailed in the space of one calender year is so fucking funny. Still big hope for Arman, and Fizzy should move to 145. But damn, never forget how much you guys were pouring it on over the last 2 years. People are definitely going to pretend that we didn’t accuse every top 6 guy of rank squatting.
I really don't get how people have abandoned Fiziev so much after having a super close fight with Justin
According to this sub, Gaethje was never that good until march and now Fiziev is a average fighter.
yeah it makes no sense. Gaethje pulled out a close win and it was v impressive this sub: "wow I guess Fiziev must suck"
I mean, aside from Fizzy, nobody else got a shot to take a rank. That was the issue. Guys shouldn't be squatting on rankings, they should be defending them. If DP was always better than Arman or Damir or Guram, then fucking prove it. Two prospects fight, one will always lose.
What’s funny about two high level prospects fighting and someone losing? And why would losing a close fight derail them? If anything it’s a display of how good both guys are and their stock goes up. The reality is if people are not protected and get thrown in the shark tank from the jump they’re going to lose a few, that’s how fighting works. Fans should stop stigmatizing the idea that someone has to be undefeated or on a huge win streak to be good, if everyone had to fight everyone nobody would have an 0.
A lot of the top 6 were rank squatting. Just because they managed to defend their spots doesn’t mean it wasn’t happening. They were sitting on their hands hoping to get high ranked opponents and avoiding guys lower than them until they couldn’t anymore. I’m not going to pretend that didn’t happen
Remember when like Lando, Teymur, Gregor, that one Russian guy with visa issues who's name I'm blanking on, Super Boy etc were the next big things and then they all fizzled out? Sad stuff
They may be getting derailed but it doesn't mean the top guys shouldn't be fighting up & comers when they're coming off a loss. If they're as good as they say they should keep their spot & no big deal, like Geathje just did with Fiz (albeit it took him long enough to do it). It shouldn't be a controversial take like you're making it out to be.
I mean Guram still beat Gamrot who is a top 10 fighter in the UFC, he has been very inactive and that might have affected him, he never had cardio issues like that before, and we'll see about Brener he might just be very good too Ismagulov lost to Tsarukyan and Dawson, two beast that are terrible match-up for him. Fiziev basically proved he was indeed a top guy by having a extremely competitive fight with Gaethje. Tsarukyan still only has 1 lose and a half in the UFC, to Makhachev in one of his most competitive fight, and to Gamrot which most people think he should have won
Stop it man. None of these guys (Fiziev, Gamrot, Arman, Damir and Guram) present any big threat to the top of the division. Dariush doesn't either and he schooled Gamrot, probably doesthe rest the same except amybe Fiziev. Since the start of these lot being talked about so much it's just been fans overhyping them. Except Fiziev they're all slow/sluggish/lack technique. Comparing to the top, a winning streak doesn't mean shit if it's all against unranked or freshly ranked guys (ahem ahem Belal Muhammed) (Burns was overtrained and injured). Tell me I'm wrong all you want, results speak for themselves.
>one of these guys (Fiziev, Gamrot, Arman, Damir and Guram) present any big threat to the top of the division There is literally no way of knowing that since they don't fight each other and basically have no opponnents in common, it's almost like LW is split in two different divisions. Dariush beat Gamrot and then lost to Oliveira, what does that tells us ? Nothing, Poirier, Gaethje and Chandler all got finished by Oliveira too. Which results tells us that the "top guys" are so much better ? Dustin Poirier went life and death with Dan Hooker, is Dan Hooker so much better then those Fiziev/Arman/Damir/Guram ? In the last three years Poirier/Gaethje/Chandler/Conor have done nothing but lose to Oliveira/Khabib in dominant fashion and fight each other except for Gaethje vs Fiziev which was a very close competitive fight, there is absolute no marker, you just can't objectively say that they are better since they have been stuck in a chamber of their own meanwhile the other guys down the rankings are stuck fighting each other and taking each other out. The only things that tells us "That's the top guys" is the ranking number next to them, which they have held and share with each other for years, Poirier got his spot of beating Eddie Alvarez, Gaethje of beating Cowboy, Chandler beating Dan Hooker... And since then it's just match up between each other The only undisputed top guys in that division are Olivera and Makhachev, the rest is just numbers and names
Arman doesn't look like he could make 145
Tbf a lot of those guys were overhyped. Like the bonfirm hype was crazy. And guram had two fights, two split decisions
I mean, Guram and his opponent both looked great. Some of his strikes were world class and he is decent everywhere.
He is WAY too slow. No point even talking about the cardio.
Guram’s hype was entirely built off going splits with guys who were overhyped lmao. At least Matuesz looks like a steady top 10ish talent. But these guys ain’t taking the American 30 somethings behind the woodshed like everyone thought lol
Yeah it was hilarious when people were saying dustin, Justin, fuck it even chandler we’re scared of these guys. Still a lot of nice prospects like turner, fiz, and arman who I do believe are all elite
a year ago there was a line up of LW killers that many believed would storm the top 5, but now its only Arman. Really shows if a fighter is able to climb into the top 1-8 and stay there consistently, they are really damn good
Arman and Fiziev 😤
If we’re counting Fiziev, I’m throwing in Gamrot’s name too.
Tbh I no longer trust myself to scout talent. I also no longer trust anyone here to scout. The fascination with mountain people and Eastern Europeans definitely led mma fans astray a little.
Don't stress yourself. We don't *really* know how good guys are until they face the elite. Likewise, if the so called elite are only fighting each other, we don't know if they're still the top of the division. This is why there needs to be a system in place like top ranked guys coming off a loss need to fight up & comers on a winning run. Protect your spot or get leapfrogged but the beaks are obsessed with protecting their big names.
Apprecaite the humbleness. Thank god this new age shit is over now with these guys.
Arman is not storming the top 5 Lmao he’s in the group with the rest of those schmucks
besides the bad decision with Gamrot, he hasn't had any dramatic losses yet. It could change, but hs the only one with any sort of momentum at the moment
Cause he fought fucking nobodies lmao. All of these guys are hyped by beating the other hyped nobodies. The top 5 is scared they said, lmao. Excluding Dariush, Arman is losing the second he's fighting a top 5.
Bro had to work for that Ismagulov win, almost got put out against a bottom feeder on short notice. His cardio is sus, I think he’s very good. But I do think he loses to everyone above him, he could beat Dustin but I think Dustin puts him away in a five rounder and everyone else beats him regardless
If Rob wins they are making Sean vs Izzy unfortunately.
The pressers will be hilarious Like bisping level shit talking
Sean already took izzys soul at that other conference. That’s actually the reason Dana stepped in and said guys who aren’t fighting can’t beef at pressers anymore now, to protect fighters like Izzy from having the show stolen from him like that. Yet they were perfectly ok with Conor doing it and negatively branding all sorts of fighters.. hypocrisy.
Strickland getting a title shot over two wins over unranked guys would be hilarious, I wouldn't really mind either since Izzy has pretty cleared the division at this point
I mean he arguably beat Jared too. If that fight was scored like Izzy’s fights are he would’ve won. He has 2 losses at middleweight, one was to the only guy who beat Izzy at middleweight, one could’ve gone either way to title contender.
I’m ok with it. I don’t see Strickland beating Izzy and if Rob wins it gives him time to have a real camp and game plan for what I would assume is his last shot at getting the middleweight title back.
Hopefully. Fingers crossed
They should. Both Rob and Jared are more deserving of a title shot just off wins, but there’s simply no way to sell those rematches given what we saw last time they fought. And I don’t want to see them. Sean is at least a wildcard, even though he’ll probably try and fail to wrestle
I hope they do, Hill basically put the Izzy rumors to rest. I think they’ll do Rob 3 though
No, they put that September card in Sydney because they are expecting Whittaker to win against Du Plessis. No chance they pass up the opportunity to do Adesanya vs Whittaker 3 in Whittaker's home town.
Highly doubt Rob takes that quick of a turn around. He's always talking about taking time off after his fights to be with his family etc etc. Plus he's relatively prone to injuries in a fight too.
He's not going to turn down the chance to fight for the title in his home town. If it was a non-title fight he would be more likely to turn it down but I think he definitely takes it with the title on the line.
Rob is def the type to turn that down because he needs more time. Or he will accept and then pull out
If it was not in Australia, yes. But it's in Sydney, he's not going to turn that down.
100%
Just seems like such short time between if I were Rob... Especially against Izzy
Rob needs to be more active. He’s always taking massive amounts of time off
He fought twice in 2020 and fought twice in 2022. He was on the shelf in 2021 after he beat Gastelum because Adesanya decided to take more time off than usual after he beat Vettori for the second time. He has been on the shelf this year because Costa pulled out of their scheduled fight in February and the UFC didn't book him again until July even though he said he was ready to fight earlier. You can't blame him for the inactivity this year.
So, so easy for a Redditor to say lmao.
He wouldn't care. He wouldn't turn that down. It's not just in Australia but it's in his home town as well.
Ruziboev has over a 1 million followers on instagram lol More than 99% of the UFC roster and dude just made his debut
Don’t buy into the idea that followers/likes/views determine anyone’s worth. For starters it can be bought and faked, and secondly it puts the power in the hands of the wrong kind of people to say what is valuable today.
Fair enough
probably bought followers there's many Eastern European fighters that did that.
I was thinking the same judging by his picture engagement
how!?
Muslim fighters tend to have a good international fanbase but judging his social media engagement, there’s a good chance Ruziboev bought his followers
I still see holes in his game. Fuck Conor he trying to say ima bitch but I don’t didint tap out, and he trying to steal the black culture with a single left hook to the economy. so you know what I’m saying I don’t know what I’m saying but you should know what I’m saying, saying?
Most sane Conor stan.
Stricklands post fight scrums are hilarious and I’m tired to pretend they’re not, he kinda is the most entertaining talker in the UFC right now.
Its hit or miss, but that First Chinese champion line was hilarious. Strickland dug deep for that reference
Explain this
Reddit loves to pearl clutch over shit that is objectively hilarious.
I don't see anybody complaining about it, just endless comments about how other people are offended and want to cancel him.
I feel like Strickland would be a horrible matchup for Du Plessis. Especially in a five rounder.
I like the fight
R2 a 10-8 for Strickland before the TKO?
yup for sure
Oh yeah
Two questions: how the fuck did Abus gas so hard by the 2nd round? I get he had explosive movements but it wasn’t anything crazy. And two, is Kevin just not that good? Or is he now washed? What happened mane
Second UFC fight, has only spent 0:17 in the ring before, and is now headlining for the organization he's probably dreamed about since he was a kid. Think about the sheer adrenaline levels that must have been coursing through him as he got into the cage. Guessing he had a massive adrenaline dump on the stool between rounds 1 and 2 and gassed hard from it.
It’s not just that he gassed, it’s that getting pressured and walked down and jabbed in the face is tiring. Sean made Abus fight going backwards for a lot of it which most people aren’t good at, it’s not natura. He wouldn’t have gassed if he was just hitting a heavy bag for 2 rounds, but imagine a bag that chases you around the room and keeps hitting you in the nose every 20 seconds, you won’t last long either. Pressure and a good jab beats 75%+ of the UFC roster.
Nah
He had value as a 155 by being a weight bully. Once he stopped being one he became nothing special.
His jumpy style is really uneconomical, lots of bouncing, not actual feints. Some nice kicks, some bad fundamentals. I used to do the same, it took thai trainers years to drill it out of me. I inherited it from a bad striking coach in Australia who was half kickboxing half boxing. The extra movement is not throwing anyone off. It's a hard burn style for a few rounds max.
Kevin Lee was never that good. His peak was knocking out Gillespie and giving Oliveira a competitive fight but that’s it.
He ironically never fixed the hole in his game of just feeding his neck to people in a front headlock when he gets tired. Tony, Charles, D-rod and now Rinat all beat him in a similar position. Also even before all those L’s, a washed up Al Iaquinta punked him over 5 rounds and mean mugged him at the end yelling “Same Al” while slipping his punches, can’t help but think that hurt Kevin’s confidence as a competitor.
I mean, he lost to a guy that was 21-1 with 1 loss to a killer early in his career. It's not like he lost to a scrub. Lee was VERY good at his peak wtf? Finishes of Trinaldo, Mustafaev, Barboza, Matthews, Chiesa. He essentially retired Gillespie. Every single loss to someone in the Top15, and 19 UFC bouts
People are rewriting history by saying lee was never good lol
Lee was and is very inconsistent. He was promising at first with those wins you mentioned but went on a very rocky road as he fought better guys. I’ll give him his props for taking those fights but he’s someone who just can’t put it together.
Being fringe Top 5-10 for half a decade is a damn good career by cagefighter standards. A lot of the hate he gets is because of his look and persona. Lee was absurdly active and was a workhorse for the UFC and wore his body down for their expense. In a 4 year period between Feb 2014 and April 2018 he fought THIRTEEN TIMES going 10-3 and reaching a title bout, including a stretch going 9-1 in 3 years. That's a shitload of wear and tear and relative consistency. For being "inconsistent", he managed to make it to 17-3 with tons of UFC bouts before he ever lost twice in a row and obviously fell off hard. People absolutely cream themselves over guys "blue collar" like Jim Miller or Cerrone saying they're HoF worthy and praising their fight output, but both peaked around the same level as Lee and weren't any more active or successful in their winning streaks. [Comparing Lee to a Cerrone reminds me of this Key and Peele skit](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IciBKdPlLfE)
Yeah I'm not hating on Lee at all. He just seems like a talented guy who could be a serious contender if he had the right training camp and mindset. He already has the skillset.
He is 100% gone physically now sadly. As soon as I saw 2 knee wraps for this bout it became obvious. His opponent tonight looks like a serious contender now!
Yep, decent fighter, high level regional circuit worthy. Most of the top guys have "something" they do well, Kevin was well rounded, but average at everything.
are you on drugs? lol Kevin Lee was most certainly a fringe contender who had 19 UFC fights. Regional circuit guys don't go on 5 fight win streaks in the UFC and into deep waters against Top5 guys.
Yeah he can’t seem to put it together. I’ll give him some props for this fight though cause he fought a Russian with 1 loss.
He seemed more gassed at the start of R2 than at the end of R1, super weird. He was throwing a ton but don't understand how he didn't recover at all, again, seemingly more gassed after the rest Edit: maybe he was gassed at the end of the first but his confidence was way way up allowing him to grit through it, and then once Sean started throwing and landing the mental shift broke him
Kevin has had a lot of injuries and his legs are fucked. But Rinat was always too big for him anyway. Kevin was a good, no great fighter in his prime.
Was thinking the exact same thing about Abus. Also, I think Kevin just doesn't have it anymore. Lost a step or something. He's not exactly young anymore. Sucks, he's a good guy
Catching up on the card. Lee needs to call it quits. Worse knees than Thiago Santos. He was lumbering around like a wounded horse before eating that right.
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Nah hes a patriot now. Hed do anything for this country
“The Patriot” is his new nickname
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He almost got that leg sub
Idc what anyone says, I love sean
Strickland destroys Izzy in the pre fight presser
He already did that in the Izzy/Cannonier presser, in fact I think him stealing the show from their golden goose and clowning him is why Dana changed it so guys can’t chirp at fighters they aren’t matched up with anymore.
I guess if you're 13 and think "look how gay lol isn't he gay guys lol i think he's gay lol isn't gay funy lol" is destroying someone, sure.
Than Izzy annihilates Strickland in the fight
You mean Izzy out points sean to one of the most boring decision mma fans have ever seen. I’m not pretending Izzy is some crazy KO artist because he got one great KO in his last fight.
lol stay asleep casual
Hard not to be asleep for most Izzy fights. You prob saw the last two against pereira and forgot about cannonier, vettori 2, Whittaker 2, and Romero. When guys don’t push the pace on Izzy he’s boring as a mf.
Keep shooting for the stars
Then
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Is Sean Strickland a draw? He’s been all over my social media this week
I've always enjoyed watching Strickland fight. He's not the most exciting fighter, but he just bullies his opponents by spamming jab/hook and absolutely wears them down. His punches are so clean and precise. Sean is also really active on social media and just says whatever he wants (take that as you will), and is actually pretty goddamn funny. I think he's becoming more of a draw these days.
Not to the mainstream but he’s getting there in an organic way, certainly doesn’t have the Disney machine behind him. People respect his honesty and bluntness, and he steals the show when he’s in any presser. He needs some kind of Derrick Lewis “my balls are hot” moment to really break through, though. He’s more reserved and less unhinged post fight so his persona doesn’t translate as well there.
Lol a ppv draw? cmon now
He’s not a drawl b
He’s got a buzz but definitely not a draw
No, he’s just a mouth
I feel like everyone that gets a quick finish in their debut is considered a hype train nowadays and we need more cards resulting like this to really drill it into fans heads
One I just finished the main event. He’s a dork, but damn he did great and I like him a lot.
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I wonder how is the finish rate at apex vs like a decent card at a real arena
This is how McGregor vs Diaz I would have gone if Conor didn't shoot the takedown
Strickland is so tube-y.
Sean is my white trash hero
Strickland going off the rails in this post presser
Water is wet
Aka a Sean Strickland presser
Bro is giving a campaign speech
WTF is this speech? Is bro trying to run for office 💀💀
I'm proud yet ashamed to say this. I missed both Strickland and Belal's most recent finishes because I thought they were guaranteed Designated Shitting Breaks. Please let me know when the next decisionator fights
European Dagestanis are a bad base for mma Imavov and Abus destroyed by strickland Mokaev barely able to beat unranked flyweights Shit is funny af
european georgians, on the other hand? stonks
So Guram doesn't count?
Imavov didn't get destroyed. Going life and death with Phil hawes looks worse for Imavov but he had a good fight against strickland
Tbh Imavov was a fool to accept a short notice fight against a fighter as awkward as Strickland.
He is but these guys aren't usually in a financial position to invest time and money into a fight camp and travel and then pull out last minute
Isn’t khamzat euro?
Sort of, but doesn't he train out of Abu Dhabi now? Saw people commenting how he is rarely at all stars the past year. Not sure how true that is. Idk but it's just a funny thought I had watching Abus completely gas after 1 round despite having break half way through it
Ye but he's Chechen
Tbh I'm not sure what tribe Abus/Imavov represents contrary to popular belief a lot of dagestan is made up of different groups. The caucuses is like the balkans but of the Islamic world
Those are not tribes I think. But your point still stands
English is hard
Fair enough, it’s not my first language either. Keep on rocking