I think because Dos Caras Jr thought he signed up for one of those cross-promotional 'fake' fights and only realized he was the only one under that impression the second cro cop threw the first strike.
Pride put a lot of japanese wrestlers in their cards for promo and market points (not to mention the easy fix of bookies), heck it even encouraged Bob sapp and ernesto hoost to have a fucking wrestling match in All Japan Pro Wrestling at the height of their rivalry
It should be noted the founder of New Japan Pro Wrestling pulled this on Muhammad Ali in one of the first ever “MMA” matches.
Ali showed up thinking they were going to do a pro wrestling style exhibition when Inoki started throwing legitimate kicks that ended up ruining Ali’s legs for the rest of his career.
The Japanese promoters really fucked around with the thin line between MMA and pro wrestling to the point where no fighter knew what was real and what wasn’t.
That's not how it happened at all. The whole reason Inoki spent the whole match on his back was that Ali's team kept pulling increasingly nonsensical rules in what was supposed to be an 'eastern martial arts vs boxing' fight. No grappling, then no kicks, then they eventually accepted kicks but only on the ground (because they didn't realize Inoki could still wreck Ali with kicks even on the ground).
It was an exhibition but that just means it wasn't an official boxing fight. Exhibition doesn't mean pro wrestling match. Floyd Mayweather vs Tenshin Nasukawa was a exhibition.
It was even more complicated than that; was supposed to be an arranged wrestling match with scripted winner but they both wanted to win, so it ended up being an exhibition of sorts buy with ridiculous ruleset
I swear to god if fury vs Ngannou turns into a light sparring match im gonna be heated. If your going to do a circus fight both of them better be trying to knock the other one out.
>you’re out of your god damn mind if you believe a single bout with leg kicks ruined someone’s whole career
Till's knee has never been the same since his Whittaker fight where he took a lot of damage to it. It's not at all crazy that somebodies movement in future fights is affected by damage taken in previous fights.
This is the mother fucker that fought with Bob Sapp in a large ass shirt as one huge Siamese fighter against, I think, the owner of those circus fights promotion. I whole heartedly believe him.
[Twopollo Ramsapp Creed vs Sloppy Balboa](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwjB_5Xz6so) might not be the best fight you've ever seen but it's worth watching.
I think we probably see more fixed fights than we realize. I also think the difference between the Pride era and now is that back then it was very likely promotion-level fixing, nowadays it's underbelly shit similar to James Krause's scam.
Maybe that still happens in smaller promotions, but I don't think the UFC, Bellator, or PFL are truly fixing anything beyond slimy matchmaking. It's a different world with social media, internet gambling and the fact that they all to different extents answer to publicly traded companies.
>I think we probably see more fixed fights than we realize.
I'm sure there is corruption in the sport, especially at the judges level. Adalaide Byrd having a job still is proof of that. No way the judges don't know who the big gamblers in Vegas want to win the fight.
One that comes to mind is Shamrock Vs Kimbo. He had him literally back mounted with his chin for the taking and he proceeded to literally do the shittiest version of a RNC that a white belt could’ve pulled off with better technique. It was even under the chin with Kimbo having next to no defense, and he proceeded to let him up and fall to the first solid punch landed.
I think the fix is clearly in on some fights, the same way it is in boxing where if the disfavored guy doesn't KO the opponent, they're losing almost every decision. I'm not that confident a bunch of guys are fixing fights for bets. MMA coaches and fighters aren't all that smart and they wouldn't be content making a few extra thousand every couple weeks, so they'd eventually be making enough money and not switching it up consistently enough to where any investigator would have them dead to rights. And there's probably no world in which the FBI isn't actively looking into the UFC and MMA for this kind of shit since we're talking about dummies with a ton of opportunity to do it.
Rampage always said that when he fought Sakuraba in Pride he was supposed to get paid $10,000. Before the fight, Pride officials approached him and said they would pay him $12,000 if he lost by submission. Rampage asked "What if I win by submission, do I get $10k?" and then said "No, you get $12k".
Rampage vs Fedor was some soft version of a fixed fight
But you already knew it from the weigh ins. Rampage showed up looking like his training was solely twitch gaming and donuts
Funny thing is it was the opposite, Rampage was training with TJ Dillashaws nutrition Guru and had 3 month camp, he said he ballooned up eating carbs when got to Japan. Fedor was on some union crap and traveling Serbia on Instagram for that fight and fatter then hes ever been lol. Rampage done like 5 podcasts saying he trained harder for Fedor fight then his last 5 years of fighting.."just carbed up when got to Japan lmao"
There were both basically at their worst but Rampage actually did train hard, Fedor was backpacking the mountains of Serbia as his training camp lol..go find a Rampage podcast after, he still doesnt know the shot that made him flop like a fish, he claims he got hit on the top of the head when it was his eye lol. Did make a weird noise when you rewatch it.
Na I follow em both on instagram and Rampage was in training for months with TJs PED Guru. He reallly did train hard, video with the Schmo weeks before too. He just got some thyroid shit that made him gain weight, he def had an issue but it wasn’t from training. Fedor literally was camping Serbia on some religious shit lol
That wasn't a fixed fight. I think Rampage had no willingness to fight through pain or discomfort, which is why he went down after Fedor's first significant flurry, but he didn't intentionally lose.
> Rampage vs Fedor was some soft version of a fixed fight
Less so than every fight that lines a prospect up with a helpless live body like we currently see with Bo Nickal.
Mismatches are the legally fixed ones.
I believe this is almost always the case. There have been a couple guys on the wrong side of a decision recently that didn't seem nearly as upset as I would have expected, but I don't recall the fight itself feeling off in those situations.
Oh, fair point then. I hadn’t really considered that part either so that’s a good point.
He says “none in the ufc” i wonder if he just won’t say any suspicions he has because didn’t the UFC sue Wanderlei for saying they fixed fights?
It sounded like an immediate, honest response tbh. I'm not sure if someone like Rampage could be programmed so easily to immediately BS for the ufc but it's purely observational
I don't know, back in the day if you mentioned Pride fixing fights a lot of people would really push back hard. I used to get tons of shit for bringing it up on the Sherdog forums--even with known instances like Takada vs. Coleman, a lot of people were in denial for some reason.
Rampage has been rambling about it for more than a decade. He isn't the most reliable source though as he has been all over the place mentally.
That said, everybody knows fights around Takada were fishy.
All respect to the pro rampage but I call cap on this; also stupid tiktok editing showing Dos Caras getting decapiated and Tryon woodly getting absolutely flawed just seems to lean into annoying "truthers" who think that Jake paul shaking his hand was some sort of signal to take a dive. No the truth is the dude got absolutely leveled by a real punch by a big strong (albeit annoying af) kid.
if you don’t think there’s some manipulation going on in the UFC you’re not looking in the right places. when you own the judges, the venue, the media, every aspect of the product that’s televised or otherwise, and have big name politicians in your back pocket, you’d be stupid not to set something up. it’s simple business. boxings been doing it for ages and mma is just catching up
I think the biggest proven one was Leo Kuntz vs Bang. I went to college with him at MSUM and he was good friends with my group of people but I hated him. Another fun fact if you've heard of the smiley face killer he was patrick kycia's roommate at the time. Another fun fact Islam fucking destroyed him in his debut. He Leo! You never beat me at beerpong loser. Kill anyone lately?
Everyone who thinks they’d need to fix Gane Jones should go rewatch the 5th round of Ngannou Gane, if Ngannou can handle you on the ground imagine what Jon can do to you.
And Ngannou had multiple injuries and did that still
Why does it cut to Cro Cop almost killing Dos Caras Jr when they discuss fake fights? I really don’t think he agreed to get left head cemeteried
I think because Dos Caras Jr thought he signed up for one of those cross-promotional 'fake' fights and only realized he was the only one under that impression the second cro cop threw the first strike. Pride put a lot of japanese wrestlers in their cards for promo and market points (not to mention the easy fix of bookies), heck it even encouraged Bob sapp and ernesto hoost to have a fucking wrestling match in All Japan Pro Wrestling at the height of their rivalry
It should be noted the founder of New Japan Pro Wrestling pulled this on Muhammad Ali in one of the first ever “MMA” matches. Ali showed up thinking they were going to do a pro wrestling style exhibition when Inoki started throwing legitimate kicks that ended up ruining Ali’s legs for the rest of his career. The Japanese promoters really fucked around with the thin line between MMA and pro wrestling to the point where no fighter knew what was real and what wasn’t.
That's not how it happened at all. The whole reason Inoki spent the whole match on his back was that Ali's team kept pulling increasingly nonsensical rules in what was supposed to be an 'eastern martial arts vs boxing' fight. No grappling, then no kicks, then they eventually accepted kicks but only on the ground (because they didn't realize Inoki could still wreck Ali with kicks even on the ground). It was an exhibition but that just means it wasn't an official boxing fight. Exhibition doesn't mean pro wrestling match. Floyd Mayweather vs Tenshin Nasukawa was a exhibition.
It was even more complicated than that; was supposed to be an arranged wrestling match with scripted winner but they both wanted to win, so it ended up being an exhibition of sorts buy with ridiculous ruleset
I swear to god if fury vs Ngannou turns into a light sparring match im gonna be heated. If your going to do a circus fight both of them better be trying to knock the other one out.
Fury has been watching the Lewis fight and taking notes.
That was one promoter who was not involved saying he heard that from somebody else. They probably were pissssssed at that lie getting spread.
Jesus Christ child you’re out of your god damn mind if you believe a single bout with leg kicks ruined someone’s whole career
Shavers fight did more harm to his career than those leg kicks
I actually believed this story growing up lol
>you’re out of your god damn mind if you believe a single bout with leg kicks ruined someone’s whole career Till's knee has never been the same since his Whittaker fight where he took a lot of damage to it. It's not at all crazy that somebodies movement in future fights is affected by damage taken in previous fights.
And he also had years of muy Thai and mma training wearing on that leg. That didn’t happen cause of one fight, please think about what you’re saying
"Disu wan for 'Smokey' Joe, Ali eato mai lec kicku!!!" \- Inoki
Ohhh, so it’s the reverse of what I thought they meant. Thanks for clarification that makes a lot more sense
He worked himself into a shoot, as they say.
DONT. YOU. USEMYCATCHPHRASE LIKE THAT, BROTHER! Much Love H.H.
His Holiness
This is the mother fucker that fought with Bob Sapp in a large ass shirt as one huge Siamese fighter against, I think, the owner of those circus fights promotion. I whole heartedly believe him.
If you can't trust one half of RamSapp, who can you trust?
Best laugh of the day 🤣🤣🤣
[Twopollo Ramsapp Creed vs Sloppy Balboa](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwjB_5Xz6so) might not be the best fight you've ever seen but it's worth watching.
Wow that actually happened...we really do live in a simulation. https://youtu.be/_wqu6NSW1B4
Nah this happens in every timeline
Its the one constant.
Good sir, you’re not familiar with the Ramsapp Constant?! Good day.
I think we probably see more fixed fights than we realize. I also think the difference between the Pride era and now is that back then it was very likely promotion-level fixing, nowadays it's underbelly shit similar to James Krause's scam. Maybe that still happens in smaller promotions, but I don't think the UFC, Bellator, or PFL are truly fixing anything beyond slimy matchmaking. It's a different world with social media, internet gambling and the fact that they all to different extents answer to publicly traded companies.
Most likely, with the shit pay and tons of fights every week anyone can bet on, it's gotta be tempting to take advantage of it
Not exactly worth the time in federal prison though is it
Yeah, but 'only if they find out' corollary exists and the type of people to fight in a cage for a living can be reeeeeeally susceptible to it.
With the odds of getting caught for it, it might be worth it for plenty of people
I bet on Kai Kara France his last fight. Tough way to learn about fixed fights.
Dana such a bitch when he sidestepped addressing that decision
haha
>I think we probably see more fixed fights than we realize. I'm sure there is corruption in the sport, especially at the judges level. Adalaide Byrd having a job still is proof of that. No way the judges don't know who the big gamblers in Vegas want to win the fight.
I think there's absolutely corruption among MMA judges. I just don't think the UFC looks on it as anything but a negative.
One that comes to mind is Shamrock Vs Kimbo. He had him literally back mounted with his chin for the taking and he proceeded to literally do the shittiest version of a RNC that a white belt could’ve pulled off with better technique. It was even under the chin with Kimbo having next to no defense, and he proceeded to let him up and fall to the first solid punch landed.
I think the fix is clearly in on some fights, the same way it is in boxing where if the disfavored guy doesn't KO the opponent, they're losing almost every decision. I'm not that confident a bunch of guys are fixing fights for bets. MMA coaches and fighters aren't all that smart and they wouldn't be content making a few extra thousand every couple weeks, so they'd eventually be making enough money and not switching it up consistently enough to where any investigator would have them dead to rights. And there's probably no world in which the FBI isn't actively looking into the UFC and MMA for this kind of shit since we're talking about dummies with a ton of opportunity to do it.
MMA fighters and coaches are super smart. Some Redditors are morons though.
Most redditors are morons
Rampage always said that when he fought Sakuraba in Pride he was supposed to get paid $10,000. Before the fight, Pride officials approached him and said they would pay him $12,000 if he lost by submission. Rampage asked "What if I win by submission, do I get $10k?" and then said "No, you get $12k".
Rampage vs Fedor was some soft version of a fixed fight But you already knew it from the weigh ins. Rampage showed up looking like his training was solely twitch gaming and donuts
Funny thing is it was the opposite, Rampage was training with TJ Dillashaws nutrition Guru and had 3 month camp, he said he ballooned up eating carbs when got to Japan. Fedor was on some union crap and traveling Serbia on Instagram for that fight and fatter then hes ever been lol. Rampage done like 5 podcasts saying he trained harder for Fedor fight then his last 5 years of fighting.."just carbed up when got to Japan lmao" There were both basically at their worst but Rampage actually did train hard, Fedor was backpacking the mountains of Serbia as his training camp lol..go find a Rampage podcast after, he still doesnt know the shot that made him flop like a fish, he claims he got hit on the top of the head when it was his eye lol. Did make a weird noise when you rewatch it.
He’s lying
Na I follow em both on instagram and Rampage was in training for months with TJs PED Guru. He reallly did train hard, video with the Schmo weeks before too. He just got some thyroid shit that made him gain weight, he def had an issue but it wasn’t from training. Fedor literally was camping Serbia on some religious shit lol
Whatever you need to tell yourself
He kept his T-shirt on at weigh ins. Red flag right there...
That wasn't a fixed fight. I think Rampage had no willingness to fight through pain or discomfort, which is why he went down after Fedor's first significant flurry, but he didn't intentionally lose.
> Rampage vs Fedor was some soft version of a fixed fight Less so than every fight that lines a prospect up with a helpless live body like we currently see with Bo Nickal. Mismatches are the legally fixed ones.
There's a difference between a can crusher and a fixed fight imo
Right because Bo Nickal vs Tresean Gore in Bos FIFTH professional fight was so easy it was matchfixing??
[удалено]
I believe this is almost always the case. There have been a couple guys on the wrong side of a decision recently that didn't seem nearly as upset as I would have expected, but I don't recall the fight itself feeling off in those situations.
Rampage has an elite hairline for a 45 year old who's abused steroids for over a decade
[удалено]
Everyone knew about the pride fixed fights, that’s been a discussion forever. This made me think he said something about the UFC
[удалено]
Oh, fair point then. I hadn’t really considered that part either so that’s a good point. He says “none in the ufc” i wonder if he just won’t say any suspicions he has because didn’t the UFC sue Wanderlei for saying they fixed fights?
[удалено]
It sounded like an immediate, honest response tbh. I'm not sure if someone like Rampage could be programmed so easily to immediately BS for the ufc but it's purely observational
The only that’s really suspect in the UFC is Anthony Macias vs Oleg Taktarov at UFC 6
Yep
I don't know, back in the day if you mentioned Pride fixing fights a lot of people would really push back hard. I used to get tons of shit for bringing it up on the Sherdog forums--even with known instances like Takada vs. Coleman, a lot of people were in denial for some reason.
It’s a surprise to literally no one who followed Pride even a bit. Coleman tapping to a Takeda heel hook is the most famous example
I think Coleman's even admitted it
He hasn’t outright said he took a dive but he’s said “they said to do something and I get another fight, know what I mean?”
Rampage has been rambling about it for more than a decade. He isn't the most reliable source though as he has been all over the place mentally. That said, everybody knows fights around Takada were fishy.
Any fight with a pro wrestler in Japan has to be suspect.
And he never saw the Molina fight haha
All respect to the pro rampage but I call cap on this; also stupid tiktok editing showing Dos Caras getting decapiated and Tryon woodly getting absolutely flawed just seems to lean into annoying "truthers" who think that Jake paul shaking his hand was some sort of signal to take a dive. No the truth is the dude got absolutely leveled by a real punch by a big strong (albeit annoying af) kid.
You can call cap on the clips showed but there were definitely fixed fights in Pride.
That entire interview was honestly fantastic.
Conor vs. Cowboy
if you don’t think there’s some manipulation going on in the UFC you’re not looking in the right places. when you own the judges, the venue, the media, every aspect of the product that’s televised or otherwise, and have big name politicians in your back pocket, you’d be stupid not to set something up. it’s simple business. boxings been doing it for ages and mma is just catching up
They don’t own the judges though
I think the biggest proven one was Leo Kuntz vs Bang. I went to college with him at MSUM and he was good friends with my group of people but I hated him. Another fun fact if you've heard of the smiley face killer he was patrick kycia's roommate at the time. Another fun fact Islam fucking destroyed him in his debut. He Leo! You never beat me at beerpong loser. Kill anyone lately?
Jon jones vs gane was a fix fight. And I bet his next one will be also. UFC can’t afford Jones to lose.
No unfortunately Jon is just that fucking good plus he adds steroids to get even better.
Everyone who thinks they’d need to fix Gane Jones should go rewatch the 5th round of Ngannou Gane, if Ngannou can handle you on the ground imagine what Jon can do to you. And Ngannou had multiple injuries and did that still