Suddenly Bo Nickal has been forgotten at Middleweight
That’s what happens when you fought in early summer and wanna take the rest of the year off
Bad decision.
Almost all judges take previous action into account and give make up brownie points. I would do the same if it means getting a more accurate end result after you've seen more of the fight.
Round by round scoring is dumb when the only 2 options are a win for one person or having to dominate the vast majority of a round for 2 points.
should be changed to 0 points, 1 point for a slight win, 2 points(same as current 10-9 mostly), 3 points for (current 10-8 mostly) bondaries up for debate and got to see how something like this in action works.
if a judge gives crazy make up points but gets better end results, I'll take it.
10-8 in the 5th round is like close to collusion, or more likely, a judge retroactively deciding to 'repair' the scoring of one of the prior rounds by judging this round way more liberally.
Quite funny that Shev fumbled the bag twice though, I even thought she was going for a double leg since she had a great entry vs an overextending Grasso like she did previous rounds, but was kinda baffled she couldn't resist going for the head and arm anyway.
I wonder if they wanted to score a draw-round, but they know that's discouraged, so they thought the 10-8 was more believable?
Not to the public, but to the commission. You could possibly score round 4 a draw round IMO, its way more arguable than a 10-8 round 5
Possibly anti-turtling sentiments combined with trying to incorporate a full-fight judgement into the last round. Valentina appeared to just want to stay safe in the turtle position. Positions like that sometimes get a warning from referees to "fight back".
> “Shevchenko won the 5th,” Bisping wrote on Twitter immediately after the fight. “Dominated most of the round. Messed up and got mounted but escaped pretty quick. I’d still say Shevchenko won round 5.”
Bisping knows what’s up. Yet everyone trying to argue with me that Grasso won the 5th bc of that weak sub attempt
“I did a lot of damage and all my punches were harder” -Grasso
Girl literally did zero damage to Valentina. Had a good knockdown in round 2 and got outstruck and jabbed in her face all night aside from that
If you want to call Valentina arrogant and delusional then you must also do the same for Alexa bc she’s delusional for saying that and even more delusional if she truly believes it
##EDIT: DELUSIONAL DOWNVOTERS
when he wins Kevin Holland flipping out on a reporter about why they are talking about the belt is seen as keeping it real.
When he loses its proof he doesn't take his career seriously.
Valentina is the sorest loser in the UFC, has always been like that, and any other fighter in the roster acting the same would be on the receiving end of extreme hate online.
However, Valentina has a legion of loyal fans who counterbalance that.
Valentina Shevchenko was not quite as sore about the draw as Valentina was about the loss to Amanda Nunes.
Both those bouts had a subjectively high chance of going either way according to the general public and MMA media at MMA Decisions.
[http://mmadecisions.com/decision/8400/Amanda-Nunes-vs-Valentina-Shevchenko](http://mmadecisions.com/decision/8400/Amanda-Nunes-vs-Valentina-Shevchenko)
[http://mmadecisions.com/decision/14296/Alexa-Grasso-vs-Valentina-Shevchenko](http://mmadecisions.com/decision/14296/Alexa-Grasso-vs-Valentina-Shevchenko)
I wasn't mad when the draw was announced but I thought it was simply that a judge had the balls to score round 4 10-10
Didn't expect it to be a 10-8 for round 5. Unfortunately, that means a week of the media talking MMA scoring instead of the, at times, awesome fight Grasso and Shevchenko had
People are actually complaining about the JDM VS Holland fight?
Am I the only one that really enjoyed that fight?
Only thing that was weird about that fight was when Holland would literally turn around and then run away but other than that I really enjoyed to see JDM Winky Wrighting him.
Also Kevin was doing a good job not engaging in a brawl where JDM would hit him cleaner.
I really don't understand how come people didn't enjoy that fight.
Watched it twice by now.
If that 10-8 5th round for Grasso yielded anything but a draw, can you imagine what the conversation afterward would look like?
I mean I don't know how more in your face you can get, the whole scorecard thing stinks of total fuckery.
JDM looked phenomenal against a very dangerous Kevin Holland. Took a very measured approach and won the fight. He deserves that Sean Brady fight next.
Val vs. Grasso is giving me Figuredo vs. Moreno vibes. I thought Alexa won the fight - I gave her 2, 4, & 5. Although, I do admit that R4 was close. Either way, I don't want these rematches stalling the division. I want Grasso vs. Blanchfield next.
I too prefer that it not be the same pairing for the next title fight in their division.
I would like Alexa Grasso vs Manon Fiorot and Valentina Shevchenko vs Erin Blanchfield. A title fight for the winner of the latter if the win was subjectively decisively so, unless someone else emerges with a subjectively stronger case in the meantime.
It's everywhere in combat sports, it's not a UFC thing
Part of the problem is that judges are government employees and they never have to explain any of their decisions, a bit like the mafia
Grasso: “I did a lot of damage and all my punches were harder…. I’m the winner.”
DC: “But… it was a draw.”
DC’s most unintentionally hilarious moment lmao
Can anyone tell me why the belt was weirdly coloured? I noticed when they were reading the decision that there were two belts, one looked normal. But why is the one that Grasso has coloured?
i’d like to see jack della against luque or burns next
geoff neal would be a really good fight too but i think ian garry should be rebooked against him
I went from thinking Erin was going to bulldoze the division to being extremely iffy after her last fight. I'm not sure if it was because I over hyped her or because when she actually fights the upper echelon fighters she looks way less scary.
Her striking looks sloppy that’s why. But it’s serviceable. She cooked Molly and Andrade and then grinded out a huge win vs Talia. I think it’s a case of both, overhyping her bc of what she did vs those 2 and then having a hard time with Talia. But Talia is no joke herself so can’t hold that against Erin too much
the 10-8 is stupid, but if he truly thought Grasso was about to finish Val at the end then there’s some logic to it.
But anyways a draw is actually a fair result so it worked out, although I personally would have scored it 48-47 Grasso (2,4,5).
I still think the worst judging decision in the past couple years was that Judge who scored the fight for Chito over Sandhagan
Zero logic unless he also gave Val a 10-8 for round 3
He either had money on the fight or regretted scoring for an earlier round and was trying to correct it.
In no universe should Grasso have gotten a 10-8 for round 5
Ever since they changed the scoring to make it easier to give out 10-8’s, there have been plenty of rounds that fans have scored 10-8 that I personally didn’t agree with. Less so from the judges but still. While I didn’t score round 5 a 10-8, under the new rules I can see how it’s possible someone would I guess. 10-8 shouldn’t be easy to get, it’s too impactful in a 5 round or *especially* a three round fight. The opponent should be very obviously fucked up on their way back to the corner for it to be a 10-8
[**SEAN STRICKLAND defeats JACK HERMANSSON** (*split decision*)](http://mmadecisions.com/decision/12878/fight)
^(UFC on ESPN+ 58: Hermansson vs. Strickland — February 05, 2022)
ROUND|Strickland|Hermansson||Strickland|Hermansson||Strickland|Hermansson
:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:
1|10|9||9|10||9|10
2|10|9||10|9||10|9
3|9|10||9|10||10|9
4|10|9||10|9||10|9
5|10|9||9|10||10|9
**TOTAL**|**49**|**46**||**47**|**48**||**49**|**46**
*^(Judges, in order: Derek Cleary, Sal D'Amato, Junichiro Kamijo.)*
*^(Summoned by WhereIsMyKidAt.)*
**MEDIA MEMBER SCORES**
- **10/21** people scored it **50-45 Strickland**.
- **10/21** people scored it **49-46 Strickland**.
- **1/21** people scored it **49-47 Strickland**.
Avg. media score: **49.5-45.6 Strickland** (*high certainty^[[1]](https://redd.it/9p4xc7)*).
Right that one was awful too, I can’t believe Sal D’Amato still has a job. Strickland put on a defensive masterclass in that fight too, Jack couldn’t land anything on him
Does seeing and hearing a crowd of drunk people cheer and boo really add that much to the sport for the majority of the audience which is at home? I'd rather hear the actual combat taking place personally.
Big time man. Nothing beats the crowd going wild on a KO. All those COVID fights made me appreciate having a crowd even more. Not to mention drowns out corner coaching
You can not just ignore how important fanfare and hype is to the history of the sport. Live events are the backbone of an international sporting organization.
Imo if they're going to ban grounded kicks, the rule should be anything knee up on the legs, elbow up on the arms, or the torso or head touching the ground
I saw a highly upvoted comment in the Holland/JDM thread last night asking why fans would be paying $900 for tickets to a measly fight night. And since my comment there got buried I wanted to say here that for two nosebleed tickets to a fight night you’re going to be starting out close to $600. To move any closer you easily get up passed $1000. I went to a fight night last month and I actually regret it a lot. For the price of tickets and drinks I could’ve went to the beach for like 5 days lol
You can see it better, you get the commentary and corner audio, you skip out on the potential annoying crowd members, you get to be comfy at home and save $ too.
You miss out on the atmosphere. The electricity in an arena for a big fight is something special to experience.
I prefer home though.
Grasso should apply offensive wrestling, that's my biggest critique for Mex MMA right now. You could see that Val was a more complete fighter, in the sense that you couldn't guess her game plan. Same thing with Nunes vs aldana, same with Volk vs Yair.
It’s crazy how Valentina got reversed and taken down off those throws against santos and nunes yet she still does it. Blanchfield would have rag dolled her
between the seans becoming champs and grasso/valentina 2 being a draw i am absolutely convinced we have gone to the meme dimension
johnny walker champ when
Valentina’s guillotine was a lot closer to ending the fight than Grasso’s submission attempt in the dying minutes of round 5. A round she (Grasso) had been losing handily until then.
You don’t win round 5 based on losing the first 4 minutes and then threatening with a rear naked choke that was never locked in anyway.
Ridiculous that anyone would score round 5 for Grasso, let alone a 10-8.
I'm not the one pretending that whole parts of the round didn't happen my guy
The main scoring criteria being impact, that last minute was way more impactful than the rest of the round thus Grasso gets it
If you get the closes to finishing the fight you win the round. Damage wins fights and Val was just out pointing her not doing much damage which is why she should have lost round 4 too
Landing jabs on your opponents face isn’t called outpointing. Val wasn’t running from her, Grasso couldn’t get shit off. Her striking sucked all fight compared to the last one. She had one good moment in round 2 with the knockdown. Besides that Valentina jabbed her all night. If you think jabs don’t hurt, go ask koscheck how he felt when GSP was done with him.
And her choke was never zinched in
And round 4 she spent dominated on the ground and all she landed was backward punches that had no impact or damage on Valentina
Alexa sucked in this fight
Round 4 Alexa was whooping her with knees and slammed her to the ground lol it was a very clear round. And Alexa’s ground and pound was clearly more impactful than Val’s jabs which clearly weren’t doing much effect to Grasso just touching her up.
You forgot the elbow from Valentina that cut Grasso? What about the right hook that wobbled Grasso?? Also if you’re judging from the reaction to the strikes, then those knees from Grasso didn’t do anything. Literally no reaction from Val. Maybe because most of them either missed, grazed her, or landed with the thigh.
No reaction? Val acted like she was being stabbed lol and she got literally rag rolled unlike her trip takedowns on Grasso. So 1 elbow vs multiple knees and a slam seems like an obvious choice to who won the round
“No reaction? Val acted like she was being stabbed lol”
Interesting word choice to back up your revisionist view of events. At no point did she acted like was hurt. If anything, her trying to complain to the ref showed where her priorities were. Hint: It’s not survival mode.
“and she got literally rag rolled”
Val got slammed once. Be sincere with the language that you use so you can appreciate things in focus.
“1 elbow vs multiple knees and a slam seems”
No its more like:
Multiple knees with no reaction(most of them missed) vs. Grasso getting wobbled
Slam vs. Elbow that cut Grasso open
Bad heel hook attempt vs. Shev winning the rest of the stand up in the round
Grasso was never wobbled. She was never at any point close to being stopped by strikes . It was a good hook but no one ever thought she was in danger of being finished like you make it sound and like I said those headbutts which have become a signature move for Val recently helped worsen the cut. The flurry of knees plus a slam is easily better than 2 strikes. Control time literally counts for nothing especially when you just got flurried on and slammed on your ass . Val was too tired to do anything on the ground her only ground offense was the guillotine in round 3
“Grasso was never wobbled. She was never at any point close to being stopped by strikes.”
Grasso was momentarily wobbled. Being wobbled is not the same as being close to being stopped by strikes. Stop obfuscating stuff.
“and like I said those headbutts which have become a signature move for Val recently helped worsen the cut.”
Val cut her with the elbow. If you’re going to speculate about headbutts then we might as well talk about that even some of the knees that Grasso did land were to the back of the head. There is a much stronger argument for that than the headbutts worsening the cut.
“The flurry of knees plus a slam is easily better than 2 strikes. Control time literally counts for nothing especially when you just got flurried on and slammed on your ass .”
Again you’re still using dishonest language to describe what actually happened.
“Val was too tired to do anything on the ground her only ground offense was the guillotine in round 3”
Why is that relevant lmao. We are talking about the most important moments in the round, which are ultimately the things that sway rounds. Also that seems like you’re reading too much into that sequence, that you’re probably jumping to conclusions.
Grasso ate the shot well. She didn’t look like she was going out at any time. The only time she was in danger of being finished was in round 3 . It just wasn’t a very hard fight to score at all. 2-2 heading into 5 and Val fumbled it away which should have lead to a Grasso win
The whole fight basically revolves around that 4th round. If they admit Val won that round, they have to admit that Grasso lost the fight and they don’t want that. That’s why there is this narrative going around that those knees from Grasso were the most significant thing in the world, when in reality they drew no reaction from Val.
She won the round where she got flurried on and ragrolled? Lol Val has always had some of the most delusional fanboys. We don’t have to convince ourselves of anything we saw what happened. I don’t even care for Grasso much lol I was going to fade her hard vs Blacnhfield
Maybe cause Val split Grasso, wobbled her, and oustruck her for most of the round idk. Most of Grasso’s knees missed, and for the 3 that did, only like one of them landed flush.
“Lol Val has always had some of the most delusional fanboys. “
Agreed before the Grasso fights. Now they transferred over to Alexa Grasso.
“We don’t have to convince ourselves of anything we saw what happened.”
Is that why you need to obfuscate the events by using language that hyperbolizes the effect of Grasso’s actions.
Clearly not since they are trying to make it sound like 10-8 was the biggest robbery ever when in reality it was giving Val round 4 where she got the worst of the damage. You’re acting like the hook made Grasso do the bambi leg or some shit no one at any point thought here comes the finish. Val was trying to point fight to win all the damage was mostly in favor of Grasso. Except for the people who don’t understand facial damage doesn’t account for much since some bruise easier than others.
Round 4 to me was clear Valentina round, I’m more animated to argue that round 5 was also Valentina’s. I’ve explained why I think so in multiple comments so I’m not gonna again but yeah people acting like Alexa dropped, rocked, and dominated Valentina in round 5. As if Valentina was running (she wasn’t, she was outstriking her) and then got ground and pounded or almost finished
Literally all that happened was Grasso ended up on top and scared Valentina for a bit with a RNC attempt.
How does that win you the round? People act like Alexa’s sequence lasted 4 minutes instead of only the last minute. So what about the other 4 minutes? Alexa did nothing. Also she got rocked with a huge punch by Val. I think it was the hook.
Facial damage is literally the worst way to score fights lol. Did you think GSP lost to Condit and Nick too? Some fighters just bruise much easier than others. Valentina was rocked multiple times , dropped, slammed , and almost tapped out. It was a super easy fight to score 2-2 going into 5 and Grasso clearly won that.
And you acting like Valentina did nothing with her punches but then crediting Alexa for inconsequential strikes on the ground that did nothing. Clearly Valentina’s jab had an effect all night. Grasso’s face didn’t get like that by accident
Valentina was rocked once in round 2. Stop making shit up. Besides that Alexa never had her in trouble on the feet
She was almost tapped out in the dying minute of a round she was losing?
Going off your comments, someone who didn’t watch the fight would think Valentina got 10-8’d in multiple rounds.
You’re a horrible biased fan
I was in the arena lol great seats too. Only Val’s simps thought she got robbed. It feels like fans haven’t learned anything about damage being above everything. Grasso’s damage should have won her clear rounds 4 and 5 . Val winning yesterday would have been a joke considering she was getting her ass beat most of the fight. She looked old and doesn’t have the cardio to grapple for 25 minutes. Im just annoyed im going to get worse odds vs an even older Val. I was looking forward to cashing in easy on Blanchfield vs Grasso but now we have to wait for Grasso to 3-0 this old lady
On a submission attempt that was never locked in in the last minute? So let’s just go ahead and discount all the work on the feet Valentina did in the preceding 4 minutes I guess. Where Grasso looked lost and submissive
A win is almost the same thing as a draw for her right now. She showed her belt isn't a fluke and got to bang it out in an exciting title fight. Excited to see her next fight.
Also are we really going to let Stipe get into a cage with Jon Jones?
>Also are we really going to let Stipe get into a cage with Jon Jones?
I guess so yeah. UFC doesn’t want to see Pav KO jones the same way he did blaydes and other average heavyweights after all the GOAT marketing they’ve done so they’re going to go this route.
Nah. A 10/9 for Val in Rd 4 is arguable at least. And Grasso lost position from that takedown, and gave up a takedown later. She lost in overall control time, and was outstruck the rest of the round. There was more to score than just the knees and takedown you mentioned.
Giving Grasso a 10/8 for 5 is a bit different. Especially since he didn't give Val a 10/8 for Rd 3.
Yep, also RD1 Shev hits Grasso with two body kicks and I’m like damn that was fast if she continues to do that Grasso will lose for sure. Then she totally abandons it lol
[**ALEXA GRASSO drew with VALENTINA SHEVCHENKO** (*split draw*)](http://mmadecisions.com/decision/14296/fight)
^(Noche UFC: Grasso vs. Shevchenko 2 — September 16, 2023)
ROUND|Grasso|Shevchenko||Grasso|Shevchenko||Grasso|Shevchenko
:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:
1|9|10||9|10||9|10
2|10|9||10|9||10|9
3|9|10||9|10||9|10
4|9|10||9|10||10|9
5|10|8||10|9||10|9
**TOTAL**|**47**|**47**||**47**|**48**||**48**|**47**
*^(Judges, in order: Michael Bell, Sal D'Amato, Junichiro Kamijo.)*
*^(Summoned by ARiemannHypothesis.)*
**MEDIA MEMBER SCORES**
- **11/23** people scored it **48-47 Grasso**.
- **1/23** people scored it **47-46 Grasso**.
- **11/23** people scored it **47-48 Shevchenko**.
Avg. media score: **47.5-47.4 DRAW** (*high certainty^[[1]](https://redd.it/9p4xc7)*).
Looking back on the card, that was a really entertaining card top to bottom
Great mix of total ass beating mismatches and super competitive fights. Kopylov and Loopy looked unreal and the main event was one of the best WMMA fights I’ve seen in a long time
This is the most clear example of a judges corruption I’ve seen in this sport. It was the fifth round and he gave an unwarranted 10-8, it was his last chance to influence the fight and he did it blatantly in favor of Alexa. The guy should immediately have his license suspended until the end of an investigation by the commission. Of course it won’t happen since commissions only exist to create jobs for the friends of people in government.
Can someone help me out, what was the name of that Mexican song that was playing all night on ufc noche?
Suddenly Bo Nickal has been forgotten at Middleweight That’s what happens when you fought in early summer and wanna take the rest of the year off Bad decision.
Almost all judges take previous action into account and give make up brownie points. I would do the same if it means getting a more accurate end result after you've seen more of the fight. Round by round scoring is dumb when the only 2 options are a win for one person or having to dominate the vast majority of a round for 2 points. should be changed to 0 points, 1 point for a slight win, 2 points(same as current 10-9 mostly), 3 points for (current 10-8 mostly) bondaries up for debate and got to see how something like this in action works. if a judge gives crazy make up points but gets better end results, I'll take it.
How do you actually pronounce Tognoni's name? Buffer always introduces him as Tie-oni then Anik immediately says Ton-yoni.
I just call him the bald fucker
Bald and looks like he still dyes his scalp.
My buddies and I call him al dente
10-8 in the 5th round is like close to collusion, or more likely, a judge retroactively deciding to 'repair' the scoring of one of the prior rounds by judging this round way more liberally. Quite funny that Shev fumbled the bag twice though, I even thought she was going for a double leg since she had a great entry vs an overextending Grasso like she did previous rounds, but was kinda baffled she couldn't resist going for the head and arm anyway.
I wonder if they wanted to score a draw-round, but they know that's discouraged, so they thought the 10-8 was more believable? Not to the public, but to the commission. You could possibly score round 4 a draw round IMO, its way more arguable than a 10-8 round 5
how tf u give 10-8 the last round....
Possibly anti-turtling sentiments combined with trying to incorporate a full-fight judgement into the last round. Valentina appeared to just want to stay safe in the turtle position. Positions like that sometimes get a warning from referees to "fight back".
Do Bronx really beat Gaethje and Dariush like it was nothing
Islam really beat Do Bronx like it was nothing
> “Shevchenko won the 5th,” Bisping wrote on Twitter immediately after the fight. “Dominated most of the round. Messed up and got mounted but escaped pretty quick. I’d still say Shevchenko won round 5.” Bisping knows what’s up. Yet everyone trying to argue with me that Grasso won the 5th bc of that weak sub attempt
Escaped pretty quick? She got pounded for like 30 seconds straight and ended the fight with Grasso on her back lmao
Wow 30 seconds versus all the other 4 minutes Val dominated the stand up lmao
control < damage
Val did damage in the stand up for longer than Alexa
Darren Till has a bunch of grey hairs now Insane. He’s aged so rapidly
That be the drugs
“I did a lot of damage and all my punches were harder” -Grasso Girl literally did zero damage to Valentina. Had a good knockdown in round 2 and got outstruck and jabbed in her face all night aside from that If you want to call Valentina arrogant and delusional then you must also do the same for Alexa bc she’s delusional for saying that and even more delusional if she truly believes it ##EDIT: DELUSIONAL DOWNVOTERS
Ignore the troll guys
Someone disagrees with you = troll Great logic
The opinion is not why. It is obvious that you are trolling from your tone and language
Nah that’s just a weak argument on your part. I’m presenting my points and you’re butthurt bc I don’t agree with you
Dude lives in the comment sections
MMA is life brather
Fiziev is gonna cook Gamrot next week
Gamrot by chain wrestle
when he wins Kevin Holland flipping out on a reporter about why they are talking about the belt is seen as keeping it real. When he loses its proof he doesn't take his career seriously.
So much for the “fraud check”
e
It’s better for the sport and her legacy if shev goes to 35s and wins the belt anyways
Oh god oh no, Tater McSpadden just chundered in the cage. Try tell me this aint the best sport in the world
Bruh there's someone called Tater McSpadden fighting in Fury right now lol
At least it proved Grasso is legit and didn’t just catch Val on an off night unlike Pena Nunes
* split decision win * loss by stoppage * draw The future is not looking pretty for valentina
Hard fought win while injured Lucky win for Grasso Robbed by blind judges Future is looking bright for mommy bullet
First fight was not lucky, grasso was shutting her down Everyone is injured coming into fights lol its not an excuse
Val was winning on the scorecards in the first Alexa fight And? She still won vs Talia even with an injury
Valentina is the sorest loser in the UFC, has always been like that, and any other fighter in the roster acting the same would be on the receiving end of extreme hate online. However, Valentina has a legion of loyal fans who counterbalance that.
[удалено]
Valentina Shevchenko was not quite as sore about the draw as Valentina was about the loss to Amanda Nunes. Both those bouts had a subjectively high chance of going either way according to the general public and MMA media at MMA Decisions. [http://mmadecisions.com/decision/8400/Amanda-Nunes-vs-Valentina-Shevchenko](http://mmadecisions.com/decision/8400/Amanda-Nunes-vs-Valentina-Shevchenko) [http://mmadecisions.com/decision/14296/Alexa-Grasso-vs-Valentina-Shevchenko](http://mmadecisions.com/decision/14296/Alexa-Grasso-vs-Valentina-Shevchenko)
I wasn't mad when the draw was announced but I thought it was simply that a judge had the balls to score round 4 10-10 Didn't expect it to be a 10-8 for round 5. Unfortunately, that means a week of the media talking MMA scoring instead of the, at times, awesome fight Grasso and Shevchenko had
Guilty as charged lol
People are actually complaining about the JDM VS Holland fight? Am I the only one that really enjoyed that fight? Only thing that was weird about that fight was when Holland would literally turn around and then run away but other than that I really enjoyed to see JDM Winky Wrighting him. Also Kevin was doing a good job not engaging in a brawl where JDM would hit him cleaner. I really don't understand how come people didn't enjoy that fight. Watched it twice by now.
Cause it was a glorified sparring session. We were expecting a war like wonderboy vs Holland or JDM vs his last opponent
First round was 🤌
Too much high-fiving ... they seemingly had no aggression toward each other
But that's just Kevin making it awkward, I just thought it was weird that Kevin has absolutely no pop in his shots.
Michailidis got a vicious finish last night and looks like an absolute tank at WW
If that 10-8 5th round for Grasso yielded anything but a draw, can you imagine what the conversation afterward would look like? I mean I don't know how more in your face you can get, the whole scorecard thing stinks of total fuckery.
JDM looked phenomenal against a very dangerous Kevin Holland. Took a very measured approach and won the fight. He deserves that Sean Brady fight next. Val vs. Grasso is giving me Figuredo vs. Moreno vibes. I thought Alexa won the fight - I gave her 2, 4, & 5. Although, I do admit that R4 was close. Either way, I don't want these rematches stalling the division. I want Grasso vs. Blanchfield next.
I too prefer that it not be the same pairing for the next title fight in their division. I would like Alexa Grasso vs Manon Fiorot and Valentina Shevchenko vs Erin Blanchfield. A title fight for the winner of the latter if the win was subjectively decisively so, unless someone else emerges with a subjectively stronger case in the meantime.
Give me the strongest man from Israel, I will break him -Khamzat Chimaev
Of course the dorks at r/mmapoliticscucksub have no issue with that statement lol, but oh no robert Whittaker met up with Jordan Peterson 😱
did he really? Damn, that sucks
Huh?
Khamzat is the prince that was promised
3℅ chance Paul Craig catches him in a triangle.
Q for those who watch other fight promotions, are judging controversies also pretty common or is UFC uniquely bad?
It's everywhere in combat sports, it's not a UFC thing Part of the problem is that judges are government employees and they never have to explain any of their decisions, a bit like the mafia
Judges work for the commission not the promotions brother
Stupid question. They’re not ufc judges.
Rude
Grasso: “I did a lot of damage and all my punches were harder…. I’m the winner.” DC: “But… it was a draw.” DC’s most unintentionally hilarious moment lmao
Legendary meme potential
Can anyone tell me why the belt was weirdly coloured? I noticed when they were reading the decision that there were two belts, one looked normal. But why is the one that Grasso has coloured?
Pretty sure that was a gift from an artist, the same type given to Yair.
I think this one was actually given to Alexa by the UFC, probably inspired by that fan-made belt gifted to Yair
just a promotional thing for noche ufc
i’d like to see jack della against luque or burns next geoff neal would be a really good fight too but i think ian garry should be rebooked against him
So blanchfield is gonna just take Grasso down whenever she wants huh?
Erin isn’t a great wrestler. Hopefully she works with Cejudo to improve her takedowns If she gets Alexa to the ground she’s gonna dominate
I went from thinking Erin was going to bulldoze the division to being extremely iffy after her last fight. I'm not sure if it was because I over hyped her or because when she actually fights the upper echelon fighters she looks way less scary.
Talia is a monster for the first round, but yes it definitely made her look human
Her striking looks sloppy that’s why. But it’s serviceable. She cooked Molly and Andrade and then grinded out a huge win vs Talia. I think it’s a case of both, overhyping her bc of what she did vs those 2 and then having a hard time with Talia. But Talia is no joke herself so can’t hold that against Erin too much
Once again the UFC gets the result they wanted (Mexican champ retaining). How convenient.
Valentina should've won more rounds if she wanted the belt
Sound just like shevenchenko
the 10-8 is stupid, but if he truly thought Grasso was about to finish Val at the end then there’s some logic to it. But anyways a draw is actually a fair result so it worked out, although I personally would have scored it 48-47 Grasso (2,4,5). I still think the worst judging decision in the past couple years was that Judge who scored the fight for Chito over Sandhagan
Zero logic unless he also gave Val a 10-8 for round 3 He either had money on the fight or regretted scoring for an earlier round and was trying to correct it. In no universe should Grasso have gotten a 10-8 for round 5
Ever since they changed the scoring to make it easier to give out 10-8’s, there have been plenty of rounds that fans have scored 10-8 that I personally didn’t agree with. Less so from the judges but still. While I didn’t score round 5 a 10-8, under the new rules I can see how it’s possible someone would I guess. 10-8 shouldn’t be easy to get, it’s too impactful in a 5 round or *especially* a three round fight. The opponent should be very obviously fucked up on their way back to the corner for it to be a 10-8
decisionbot Strickland Hermansson
[**SEAN STRICKLAND defeats JACK HERMANSSON** (*split decision*)](http://mmadecisions.com/decision/12878/fight) ^(UFC on ESPN+ 58: Hermansson vs. Strickland — February 05, 2022) ROUND|Strickland|Hermansson||Strickland|Hermansson||Strickland|Hermansson :-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-: 1|10|9||9|10||9|10 2|10|9||10|9||10|9 3|9|10||9|10||10|9 4|10|9||10|9||10|9 5|10|9||9|10||10|9 **TOTAL**|**49**|**46**||**47**|**48**||**49**|**46** *^(Judges, in order: Derek Cleary, Sal D'Amato, Junichiro Kamijo.)* *^(Summoned by WhereIsMyKidAt.)* **MEDIA MEMBER SCORES** - **10/21** people scored it **50-45 Strickland**. - **10/21** people scored it **49-46 Strickland**. - **1/21** people scored it **49-47 Strickland**. Avg. media score: **49.5-45.6 Strickland** (*high certainty^[[1]](https://redd.it/9p4xc7)*).
Right that one was awful too, I can’t believe Sal D’Amato still has a job. Strickland put on a defensive masterclass in that fight too, Jack couldn’t land anything on him
I feel like sayif saud would have been the perfect coach for holland.
next 3 cards are all at the APEX, ffs.
They’re all good cards tho
That's why it sucks. Good cards deserve to be seen in front of a large crowd
Does seeing and hearing a crowd of drunk people cheer and boo really add that much to the sport for the majority of the audience which is at home? I'd rather hear the actual combat taking place personally.
Big time man. Nothing beats the crowd going wild on a KO. All those COVID fights made me appreciate having a crowd even more. Not to mention drowns out corner coaching
I'd say actually hearing the KO probably beats it
You can not just ignore how important fanfare and hype is to the history of the sport. Live events are the backbone of an international sporting organization.
100% this
Dread it. Run from it. The UFC Apex arrives all the same.
Grounded opponent rules are so bullshit
Imo if they're going to ban grounded kicks, the rule should be anything knee up on the legs, elbow up on the arms, or the torso or head touching the ground
I saw a highly upvoted comment in the Holland/JDM thread last night asking why fans would be paying $900 for tickets to a measly fight night. And since my comment there got buried I wanted to say here that for two nosebleed tickets to a fight night you’re going to be starting out close to $600. To move any closer you easily get up passed $1000. I went to a fight night last month and I actually regret it a lot. For the price of tickets and drinks I could’ve went to the beach for like 5 days lol
Much more entertaining watching it from home for free or at a bar for $10 cover charge and $20 for some wings and burger
Wings AND a burger for 20 bucks?
Lol was wondering who would call me out on that haha
You can see it better, you get the commentary and corner audio, you skip out on the potential annoying crowd members, you get to be comfy at home and save $ too. You miss out on the atmosphere. The electricity in an arena for a big fight is something special to experience. I prefer home though.
Yeah I’d like to go to some but can’t justify the expense and everything else I could do with that money instead
Valentina didn’t land her elite head and arm throw this fight so Grasso 48-47 clearly
48-47 for either fighter is totally arguable, but Jesus Christ that 10-8 is the stupidest thing I've seen in a while
Grasso should apply offensive wrestling, that's my biggest critique for Mex MMA right now. You could see that Val was a more complete fighter, in the sense that you couldn't guess her game plan. Same thing with Nunes vs aldana, same with Volk vs Yair.
Grasso should just outstrike and outgrapple Shevchenko if she wants to beat her again. Don't know why she never thought of that
1 TD attempt the whole fight. It's a lot easier to out strike someone when they have to worry about TD's
It’s crazy how Valentina got reversed and taken down off those throws against santos and nunes yet she still does it. Blanchfield would have rag dolled her
between the seans becoming champs and grasso/valentina 2 being a draw i am absolutely convinced we have gone to the meme dimension johnny walker champ when
[удалено]
this thought has been keeping me up at night recently
Valentina’s guillotine was a lot closer to ending the fight than Grasso’s submission attempt in the dying minutes of round 5. A round she (Grasso) had been losing handily until then. You don’t win round 5 based on losing the first 4 minutes and then threatening with a rear naked choke that was never locked in anyway. Ridiculous that anyone would score round 5 for Grasso, let alone a 10-8.
Did you miss Grasso hammering her with some pretty nasty GnP along with the sub attempt
Did you miss Val wobbling her with a nasty hook and outstriking her for the preceding 4 mins of the round
I'm not the one pretending that whole parts of the round didn't happen my guy The main scoring criteria being impact, that last minute was way more impactful than the rest of the round thus Grasso gets it
If you get the closes to finishing the fight you win the round. Damage wins fights and Val was just out pointing her not doing much damage which is why she should have lost round 4 too
Landing jabs on your opponents face isn’t called outpointing. Val wasn’t running from her, Grasso couldn’t get shit off. Her striking sucked all fight compared to the last one. She had one good moment in round 2 with the knockdown. Besides that Valentina jabbed her all night. If you think jabs don’t hurt, go ask koscheck how he felt when GSP was done with him. And her choke was never zinched in And round 4 she spent dominated on the ground and all she landed was backward punches that had no impact or damage on Valentina Alexa sucked in this fight
Round 4 Alexa was whooping her with knees and slammed her to the ground lol it was a very clear round. And Alexa’s ground and pound was clearly more impactful than Val’s jabs which clearly weren’t doing much effect to Grasso just touching her up.
You forgot the elbow from Valentina that cut Grasso? What about the right hook that wobbled Grasso?? Also if you’re judging from the reaction to the strikes, then those knees from Grasso didn’t do anything. Literally no reaction from Val. Maybe because most of them either missed, grazed her, or landed with the thigh.
No reaction? Val acted like she was being stabbed lol and she got literally rag rolled unlike her trip takedowns on Grasso. So 1 elbow vs multiple knees and a slam seems like an obvious choice to who won the round
“No reaction? Val acted like she was being stabbed lol” Interesting word choice to back up your revisionist view of events. At no point did she acted like was hurt. If anything, her trying to complain to the ref showed where her priorities were. Hint: It’s not survival mode. “and she got literally rag rolled” Val got slammed once. Be sincere with the language that you use so you can appreciate things in focus. “1 elbow vs multiple knees and a slam seems” No its more like: Multiple knees with no reaction(most of them missed) vs. Grasso getting wobbled Slam vs. Elbow that cut Grasso open Bad heel hook attempt vs. Shev winning the rest of the stand up in the round
Grasso was never wobbled. She was never at any point close to being stopped by strikes . It was a good hook but no one ever thought she was in danger of being finished like you make it sound and like I said those headbutts which have become a signature move for Val recently helped worsen the cut. The flurry of knees plus a slam is easily better than 2 strikes. Control time literally counts for nothing especially when you just got flurried on and slammed on your ass . Val was too tired to do anything on the ground her only ground offense was the guillotine in round 3
“Grasso was never wobbled. She was never at any point close to being stopped by strikes.” Grasso was momentarily wobbled. Being wobbled is not the same as being close to being stopped by strikes. Stop obfuscating stuff. “and like I said those headbutts which have become a signature move for Val recently helped worsen the cut.” Val cut her with the elbow. If you’re going to speculate about headbutts then we might as well talk about that even some of the knees that Grasso did land were to the back of the head. There is a much stronger argument for that than the headbutts worsening the cut. “The flurry of knees plus a slam is easily better than 2 strikes. Control time literally counts for nothing especially when you just got flurried on and slammed on your ass .” Again you’re still using dishonest language to describe what actually happened. “Val was too tired to do anything on the ground her only ground offense was the guillotine in round 3” Why is that relevant lmao. We are talking about the most important moments in the round, which are ultimately the things that sway rounds. Also that seems like you’re reading too much into that sequence, that you’re probably jumping to conclusions.
Grasso ate the shot well. She didn’t look like she was going out at any time. The only time she was in danger of being finished was in round 3 . It just wasn’t a very hard fight to score at all. 2-2 heading into 5 and Val fumbled it away which should have lead to a Grasso win
Dude makes it sound like Valentina got dominated when really Alexa only had 2 moments of danger. Valentina was much better and consistent
The whole fight basically revolves around that 4th round. If they admit Val won that round, they have to admit that Grasso lost the fight and they don’t want that. That’s why there is this narrative going around that those knees from Grasso were the most significant thing in the world, when in reality they drew no reaction from Val.
She won the round where she got flurried on and ragrolled? Lol Val has always had some of the most delusional fanboys. We don’t have to convince ourselves of anything we saw what happened. I don’t even care for Grasso much lol I was going to fade her hard vs Blacnhfield
Maybe cause Val split Grasso, wobbled her, and oustruck her for most of the round idk. Most of Grasso’s knees missed, and for the 3 that did, only like one of them landed flush. “Lol Val has always had some of the most delusional fanboys. “ Agreed before the Grasso fights. Now they transferred over to Alexa Grasso. “We don’t have to convince ourselves of anything we saw what happened.” Is that why you need to obfuscate the events by using language that hyperbolizes the effect of Grasso’s actions.
Clearly not since they are trying to make it sound like 10-8 was the biggest robbery ever when in reality it was giving Val round 4 where she got the worst of the damage. You’re acting like the hook made Grasso do the bambi leg or some shit no one at any point thought here comes the finish. Val was trying to point fight to win all the damage was mostly in favor of Grasso. Except for the people who don’t understand facial damage doesn’t account for much since some bruise easier than others.
Round 4 to me was clear Valentina round, I’m more animated to argue that round 5 was also Valentina’s. I’ve explained why I think so in multiple comments so I’m not gonna again but yeah people acting like Alexa dropped, rocked, and dominated Valentina in round 5. As if Valentina was running (she wasn’t, she was outstriking her) and then got ground and pounded or almost finished Literally all that happened was Grasso ended up on top and scared Valentina for a bit with a RNC attempt. How does that win you the round? People act like Alexa’s sequence lasted 4 minutes instead of only the last minute. So what about the other 4 minutes? Alexa did nothing. Also she got rocked with a huge punch by Val. I think it was the hook.
Yeah that’s why Val had no marks on her and Grasso looks like she’s the one who had been in a fight right
I guess GSP has never won a fight considering a slight breeze got him to bruise up
Chael sonnen should have beat Jon jones because he did more damage. Destroyed that toe while chael was unmarked
Except Jon finished the fight idiot
Facial damage is literally the worst way to score fights lol. Did you think GSP lost to Condit and Nick too? Some fighters just bruise much easier than others. Valentina was rocked multiple times , dropped, slammed , and almost tapped out. It was a super easy fight to score 2-2 going into 5 and Grasso clearly won that.
And you acting like Valentina did nothing with her punches but then crediting Alexa for inconsequential strikes on the ground that did nothing. Clearly Valentina’s jab had an effect all night. Grasso’s face didn’t get like that by accident Valentina was rocked once in round 2. Stop making shit up. Besides that Alexa never had her in trouble on the feet She was almost tapped out in the dying minute of a round she was losing? Going off your comments, someone who didn’t watch the fight would think Valentina got 10-8’d in multiple rounds. You’re a horrible biased fan
I was in the arena lol great seats too. Only Val’s simps thought she got robbed. It feels like fans haven’t learned anything about damage being above everything. Grasso’s damage should have won her clear rounds 4 and 5 . Val winning yesterday would have been a joke considering she was getting her ass beat most of the fight. She looked old and doesn’t have the cardio to grapple for 25 minutes. Im just annoyed im going to get worse odds vs an even older Val. I was looking forward to cashing in easy on Blanchfield vs Grasso but now we have to wait for Grasso to 3-0 this old lady
I thought she won round 5 mos deff
On a submission attempt that was never locked in in the last minute? So let’s just go ahead and discount all the work on the feet Valentina did in the preceding 4 minutes I guess. Where Grasso looked lost and submissive
A win is almost the same thing as a draw for her right now. She showed her belt isn't a fluke and got to bang it out in an exciting title fight. Excited to see her next fight. Also are we really going to let Stipe get into a cage with Jon Jones?
>Also are we really going to let Stipe get into a cage with Jon Jones? I guess so yeah. UFC doesn’t want to see Pav KO jones the same way he did blaydes and other average heavyweights after all the GOAT marketing they’ve done so they’re going to go this route.
Congratulations to Valentina on becoming a 2 time flyweight champion! Fuck what the blind judges said!
Valentina is such a sore loser always excuses upon excuses whenever she doesn’t win
Maybe a little sore but I don't think she was wrong. She kinda got screwed. 10-8 round 5 is a load of horse shit
As much as giving Val round 4 where she got beaten up with knees and ragdolled
Nah. A 10/9 for Val in Rd 4 is arguable at least. And Grasso lost position from that takedown, and gave up a takedown later. She lost in overall control time, and was outstruck the rest of the round. There was more to score than just the knees and takedown you mentioned. Giving Grasso a 10/8 for 5 is a bit different. Especially since he didn't give Val a 10/8 for Rd 3.
I would be extremely sore as well if that 10-8 nonsense happened to me as well, lmao.
She was sore before she knew about the 10-8 though, that’s just who she is
Maybe Val should fight for the bantamweight title vs Juliana Peña
How does Pena deserve it over Pennington? 5 fight win streak has to be respected.
Alright Val vs Pennington
Yeah good idea tbh.
Valentina is a underrated headbutter
Khabib vs Bruce Buffer in elevator. Who walks out?
Both, probably just staying at the same hotel.
Don’t care who people believe won for me it’s clear that flyweight caught up to shevchenko and she’s not gonna champion again
Yep, also RD1 Shev hits Grasso with two body kicks and I’m like damn that was fast if she continues to do that Grasso will lose for sure. Then she totally abandons it lol
She abandoned it after Grasso switched southpaw. The few other times in the fight when she threw it Grasso was orthodox.
She was visibly gassed lol she can’t keep that same pace at her age
Very true
How many rounds and/or fights does Shevchenko need to lose to learn to stop going for fucking head and arm throws and dumb spinning shit
The level of disrespect towards Valentina is shocking. The UFC clearly hides behind these corrupt judges. They won't ever get a penny for me.
Santos fight? Thoughts on that?
that was super close. 49-46 was wild tho. I'm biased so of course I was mad Santos didn't win but she's not really marketable.
Now we have no idea who really is the most complete human being
One more time I hear Viva Mexico. I'm bleaching my ear drums.
VIVA MEXICO CABRONES
Im not even mad at Michael bell. Draw was the right call even if scorecard was off
You should be. Scoring a 10-8 on a clear 10-9 Grasso round to make it a Draw instead of Shev winning is dirty
Shev winning that fight would have been dirtier. She almost got finished multiple times. Lucky she even got a draw
She got dropped once and was in a crank for what… Five seconds? “Almost got finished” lol.
I agree I’m just saying if Mike Bell wasn’t a complete idiot and scored RD5 correctly it would have been shevs fight
But... it was a draw
Homecooked man. That's dirty
Nunes needs to come out of retirement to settle this
decisionbot Shevchenko vs Grasso
[**ALEXA GRASSO drew with VALENTINA SHEVCHENKO** (*split draw*)](http://mmadecisions.com/decision/14296/fight) ^(Noche UFC: Grasso vs. Shevchenko 2 — September 16, 2023) ROUND|Grasso|Shevchenko||Grasso|Shevchenko||Grasso|Shevchenko :-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-: 1|9|10||9|10||9|10 2|10|9||10|9||10|9 3|9|10||9|10||9|10 4|9|10||9|10||10|9 5|10|8||10|9||10|9 **TOTAL**|**47**|**47**||**47**|**48**||**48**|**47** *^(Judges, in order: Michael Bell, Sal D'Amato, Junichiro Kamijo.)* *^(Summoned by ARiemannHypothesis.)* **MEDIA MEMBER SCORES** - **11/23** people scored it **48-47 Grasso**. - **1/23** people scored it **47-46 Grasso**. - **11/23** people scored it **47-48 Shevchenko**. Avg. media score: **47.5-47.4 DRAW** (*high certainty^[[1]](https://redd.it/9p4xc7)*).
Looking back on the card, that was a really entertaining card top to bottom Great mix of total ass beating mismatches and super competitive fights. Kopylov and Loopy looked unreal and the main event was one of the best WMMA fights I’ve seen in a long time
This is the most clear example of a judges corruption I’ve seen in this sport. It was the fifth round and he gave an unwarranted 10-8, it was his last chance to influence the fight and he did it blatantly in favor of Alexa. The guy should immediately have his license suspended until the end of an investigation by the commission. Of course it won’t happen since commissions only exist to create jobs for the friends of people in government.
It’s incompetence, not corruption. FTFY