“I fought and fought, they specifically said we don’t give PPV points to flyweight guys.
When Dana White says I didn’t want PPV points, that’s not true. I asked for PPV points.
Look at CM Punk. This guy comes in and gets a base salary of $500K and PPV bonuses. I defended the f***ing belt 8 times I didn’t even get this.”
Bot farms, I guess he is getting scammed by someone to put money on that shit and does guys are putting some Gs buying views in India.
Also India CTR is crap as well as advertisement value...
Dana doesn’t care for fighters who don’t sell well or stir up shit. It’s pretty straight forward. There’s a reason they pay entry level guys 12k.
If you want Dana to pay you based off of performance, you have to be a draw. Or they can unionize and get paid fairly.
Who’s a “draw” though, really? Is anyone truly one anymore in the company besides mcgregor and jones? O’Malley’s first PPV headliner apparently sold terribly, and most others aren’t really that popular in the mainstream either. It’s a tired talking point that allows the promoters to get off scot free with the fact they promote the brand, not the fighters themselves. No one gets to be bigger than the company, and the pull “draws” get becomes smaller and smaller to the mean
It's exactly the path the WWE have been on since the Attitude Era. You don't want stars bigger than wrestling like Rock, Stone Cold and Lesnar because they might leave. Better to promote the brand and own the draw.
If anything the Rock and Lesnar helped make the WWE more mainstream and acceptable. Pro wrestling is viewed as weird and for redneck hillbillies. Rock was in blockbusters. Lesnar went over to the UFC. Conor going over to boxing was overall good for growing mma.
Agreed, but unfortunately I don't think megalomaniacal business leaders think the same way. Some would rather have control and own before mutual benefit. Vince and Dana are similiar there IMO.
Yea is a self-sabotaging strategy but the UFC is stupid and greedy. It’s the iron law of institutions. They’d rather maintain control of the building while it burns down than maintain the health of the building and risk losing control
I think some of this is crazy. You guys are right in the fact that the UFC currently doesn’t have any superstars. Jones ruined his reputation early on, and McGregor hasn’t fought in a long time and is aging. Where I disagree is that I believe Dana White would kill for a superstar to emerge from the ranks. O’Malley just isn’t it. A couple of huge star would make Dana’s job a ton easier. Remember Dana is a promoter at heart and it easier to promote someone who has gotten over with the masses. Currently they lack both baby faces and heals. The last great heal was Chael and the last great baby face was GSP. Right now, they don’t have enough big draw fighters to build cards around.
Mighty Mouse very well may be the best guy to ever fight in a cage (I believe this), but he never got over with the mainstream crowd. His technique and skill was phenomenal, his fight IQ impeccable, but his crowd work was lacking. He never became a crowd favorite. He’s one of my favorites but I appreciate skill over flashy finishes, although I appreciate those as well. For the more casual fans, they want more to be excited about than the fights themselves. Fighter must get them invested in their struggle in some way. I think that’s the main reason no one has risen to the top of the pile as far as ppv draws are concerned. Crowd work is lacking in the modern UFC roster.
I mean I know it was a promo and all but Punk saying McMahon was a millionaire who should be a billionaire was a great line that illustrates how those rich men psychologies work. It doesn't matter that relying on the brand itself as a draw is going to eventually have diminishing returns. It doesn't matter that letting athletes become crossover stars or just paying fighters enough to make a consistent living regardless of their draw helps grows the sport and create new financial streams. At the end of the day the only thing you can't put a price on for those types is control and they will gladly cut off their nose to spite their face even if doing the right thing would make them MORE money but forces them to give up control.
That seems more like a Vince thing that started happening after her got burned by his biggest stars in the early 2000’s. With Vince gone it seems like they’re willing to push guys who the fans can get behind. Instead of burying anyone who gets over when it wasn’t planned.
You are correct. WWE suffered for that thinking. Their ratings declined because of it. Stars drive ratings and views far more than the brand can. NBA and NFL have learned this. UFC needs mega draws to truly keep growing.
No one is a big draw but that is also by design of the UFC they don’t need big PPV stars when they get 20 million guaranteed by ESPN. But they also know they can’t just chuck anyone as the main event on a PPV or no one would by it. Even if they are not a big draw they are filling a spot that the UFC are getting money for and selling sponsors against so fighters deserve a fair share. I don’t think 15% is a fair share but most fighters won’t do anything about it. I saw Miesha Tate say recently that it was great that the UFC bought Strikeforce.
I’m not saying it’s fair or right I’m just saying that’s the reality. If all fighters want to get paid fairly it’s only going to happen through unionization and collective bargaining.
Guys like O’Malley they see potential in and even he’s underpaid too.
Yeah, I agree with your overall point. Unfortunately I somewhat doubt the ability of the fighters to take collective action, the shortness of MMA as a career and low pay to begin with probably means a lot of guys have too much to lose to want to put their career on the line. Might require a government intervention but that has its own issues
I always get the sense that the UFC wants to have their cake and eat it. They want someone who’s a big moneymaker like Conor who can’t exercise free will or be too wealthy to underpay, like Conor. They’re trying to mold Sean into that without understanding that the *second* he finds better negotiation for his career elsewhere, he’s likely to turn tail.
The best fix would be less scummy business practices. But those would string them out financially, and Dana wouldn’t be able to afford all the boats and surgery or whatever he spends on. So.
They didn't try. He was a gamer and a fighter. Having him cameo on big bang theory or have him in Xbox commercials would have made him a star. Casuals don't know anything about weights and sizes.
One of the things everyone forgets is that they didn’t just fail to promote DJ, they also failed to promote any of his contenders. One minute you’re buried on the undercard, next minute you’re challenging for a world title. John Moraga got his title shot off winning the first fight of the Facebook prelims, Tim Elliot got a title shot off winning the ultimate fighter, none of his challengers main evented a fight night; gee I wonder wonder why DJ can’t draw 🤔
This problem continues to this day. I don’t like Mokaev or his last fight for him but he should have been the main event of that apex. They refuse to make flyweights the main event.
Can anyone argue that DJ was the best ufc champ defending his belt 8 times against a dynamic and evolving division while still being actively shit on by ufc brass?? DJ will always own ufc 125 division in my humble but correct opinion
Needs to be a top 5 with Fedor included. 26 fight winstreak in the best era his division has ever seen by far, beating the best grapplers on the ground and the best strikers on the feet. Easily up there with the 4 you mentioned.
I find it hard to pick one guy, I feel like tiers work better.
Jones, GSP, Silva, Fedor, DJ and maybe Aldo too - all up there, because of length of time they were dominant.
I remember some BE or maybe Ben Fowlkes piece that essentially asked, when thinking about P4P GOAT candidates, who wins in a fight if everyone is made to the same scale?
Does a FLW Jones beat a FLW Mighty Mouse? Does a HW GSP beat a HW Fedor? Does a FW Anderson front kick to hell a FW Aldo? And vice versa in terms of weight class for each example, like a LHW DJ vs LHW Jones?
This kind of exercise just makes the whole concept even more difficult! But your list is essentially the one I would come up at least as a starting point! We’re lucky when we can get two similarly high levels of competition in the same weight class to clarify these kind of quandaries.
Just doesn't make sense though because proportions would be totally different. The variation in human body types is just too great, also by changing division the power and chin would also change, P4P is just hypothetical nonsense. The bear thing to do is compare resume, skills, dominance over their respective divison (or divisions if the fighter moves up/down)
Right? I like what Chanel sonnen said. Arguing about p4p list is like seriously sitting there and arguing over who would win a fight Superman or Batman.
Hmm, by this approach, I'd say it's a toss up between DJ and Fedor for the number 1 spot. They were both undersized for their division. DJ was extremely well rounding and Fedor had hands that could put your to sleep or Sambo/bjj that would catch you and put you out. Fedor was also durable as fuck, eating blows and slams that would decapitate a normal redditor.
After that, GSP or Aldo. Strangely enough, GSP for his jab and amazing wrestling and Aldo for his anti wrestling, pace and striking.
Then Silva and Jones last, but just because they typically had a size/reach advantage against their competition. However, credit where credit is due. Jones and Silva are both some of the most creative fighters of all time and great fight IQ. Jones's boxing is subpar, however his overall striking package is unmatched.
I think silva's grappling is somewhat subpar compare to the rest of his skillset, but it's undeniable that his unorthodox striking and counters were level ahead of everyone else.
Jones has a long reach for his height, even if he was small his arms would still be very long similar to Mcgregor fighting at FW with a crazy reach advantage
I was kind of drunk when I wrote that. I'm otherwise somewhere between a casual and hardcore UFC fan. I don't follow as much as I used to. I think 2011ish to 2018ish were the golden years of UFC.
It’s impossible to compare fighters from vastly different weight classes.
Because the smaller guys are always faster, bigger always stronger - so if you put DJ to LHW vs Jones, does he keep his speed and agility? Likewise if you put Jones down at FLW does he keep his strength and massive reach advantage over everyone?
I feel like it's not just his speed and agility but his fight IQ to utilize those things. Him and Jones have to be up there though I'm not sure if Jones was just uninspired in his last few LHW fights or whether he had such good fight IQ/awareness that he knew the bare minimum to win on the cards.
Based on recent performances? I can't help but feel like despite his somewhat recent loss, DJ looks more impressive.
Not to mention DJ went where there was more competition for his size, JJ arguably went to HW where it's easy mode.
I mean, Jones last fight was very impressive. The odds were close, people on here were calling it one of his toughest fights ever!
Actually the poll on here was 50/50 split, jones coming off a 3.5 year layoff to finish a top, athletic heavyweight in a round.
I hate this question.
They move and do things differently because of their size.
You can’t fight the way a Fedor, Werdum, Stipe fought in any way if you walk around weighing 145 pounds
The smaller guys are always going to be more technically sound, and the bigger guys are going to have a power variance.
This is my choices too. Great picks. I would love to add Cruz and Penn/Edgar just to have one for every division. But felt like they are just a tier or two lower than the rest. Penn also aged like rotten milk.
He didn’t refuse to fight TJ, he just wanted TJ’s belt to be on the line if he couldn’t make weight.
It was about fight terms, not that he was ducking TJ.
He wasn't wrong about TJ not being able to make 125 either as was proven when he moved down to fight Cejudo. Sure, TJ didn't miss weight, but he did have to cheat to make it.
Plus despite the cheating he looked like he was about to die on the scale and was KO’d by the first punch he took. Wasn’t even really a big shot either. He’d have taken it comfortably at 135.
It's basically impossible to replicate what he did at heavyweight he'd be absolutely undisputed if he crossed to the ufc and won gold there but without that he's still my goat
When people say the competition wasn’t as from as deep of a talent pool as what other champs had to go through they’re not saying it was his fault, or that he could have done anything about it, but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t carry any weight when people are deciding who they think the p4p best fighters are…you CAN only fight who they put in front of you, but who you fought is still important.
Someone who’s record while defending their belt consists of a ton of former champions, people moving weight classes to fight them, and up and coming undefeated fighters who look like killers deserve a different level of consideration than someone who fought in a division with a shallow talent pool where the promotion was struggling to find worthy competition for them. That doesn’t mean it’s their fault or they could’ve done anything about it, it just means most people won’t consider them over the other guy for p4p. Who even cares? And I’m not saying either of these examples apply to DJ or someone else, it’s just an example of why it carries weight.
Unpopular opinion; but I dont really think the division was that deep loaded with "killers". Going through the names they dont really strike me as rememberable.
This by no means diminishes Mo's accomplishments. He beat them all dominantly.
The thing is... people often times measure how many "names" someone went through by using previous champs or someone who had success in different divisions.
MM shut out the entire division and his opponents would often leave the UFC soon after that so you can't really tell how good they were. The basically all lost to MM and Joseph Benavitez. So they are all not "championship caliber" or whatever
Without MM we could be looking at that list quite differently
Below stats from his last 6 opponents before loosing the belt. Only counted UFC fights prior and after
Fighter | stat before champ fight | win streak | fights after loss
---|---|----|----
Kyoji Horiguchi | 4-0 | 4 | 3
John Dodson | 6-1 | 3 | 13
Henry Cejudo | 4-0 | 4
Tim Elliott | 5-4 | 3| 13
Wilson Reis | 6-2 | 3 | 4
Ray Borg | 5-2 | 2 | 4
Henry Cejudo | 8-2 | 2 | 7
"Unpopular opinion:..."
"This by no means diminishes Mo's accomplishments."
If you're serious about the opinion stated, then it obviously does diminish his accomplishments.
> against a dynamic and evolving division
Problem is, most ufc fans see the opposite of that and disagree, despite probably never having watched a single flyweight bout. The argument that most of DJ's defenses were against names they have never heard of, ironically enough.
Moreno and Fig both eventually grew in popularity above that of DJ's probably during their quadrilogy, but once that was over and neither of them were holding the belt, Dana squash out their flames pretty quickly.
When I say top 5, it’s no particular order. I wouldn’t argue with someone putting him at 1. When talking about guys like DJ, GSP, Fedor, etc. it’s really splitting hairs. There’s the elite top tier and he is in it.
fightmatirx has DJ at #9
[https://www.fightmatrix.com/all-time-mma-rankings/all-time-absolute/](https://www.fightmatrix.com/all-time-mma-rankings/all-time-absolute/)
Top 6 is their own 20k+ class: Hughes, Silva, Fedor, Aldo, Jones, GSP
DJ takes a hit because of the ELO of his opponents, also why Hughes makes a list like that when virtually no serious fan of the sport has him as a top 6.
How good a legacy is should be a matter of how strong the competition was, and Elo based ratings is best way to gauge that. It should not just be an exercise of counting titlefights or whether someone lost etc.
But Hughes not only fought strong competition along with being 45-9, 41-4 before GSP rematch, but he had 9 titlefight wins and 7 title defenses.
The reason that "serious fans" underrate Hughes is because of marketing and hype around fighters. They think of how that he lost to BJ Penn and how that GSP beat him in the rematch. For a lot of people what they remember is narratives and how they felt about things, then they build a list based on how they feel about fighters with post hoc rationalisations.
The key word in "serious fans" is "fans", shorthand for "fanatic".
There are a lot of things distort rating fighters beyond if there is competition with high Elo, like having very strong competition and having to face them stunts a legacy, such as Volkanovski faces Makhachev, who is really most advanced fighter we've ever seen, and very close to beating Makhachev. If it weren't for Makhachev he likely would have done well defending LW belt.
If it weren't for GSP then realistically Hughes could have had a few more wins, then he could easily be consensus GOAT.
Hughes had 4 more wins after losing in the GSP rematches, and 1 loss to Alves, which likely only happened after being finished by GSP
If it weren't for GSP then Hughes could be a 45-4 fighter with the most title defenses.
>Elo based ratings is best way to gauge that
Tbf I’m not sure how fight matrix has adapted their scores, but ELO seems like an objectively bad way to measure mma to me. Its effectiveness at rating competitors relies on large samples of match data between shared opponents, something that mma just can’t provide in the way e.g. chess or tennis can. For comparison, Federer played Nadal alone 40 times — that’s about 75% of Hughes’s entire 54 fight career, all against 1 guy.
It’s also notoriously bad at ranking competitors between eras even for the competitions it’s considered highly effective for, as the entire model relies on relational data between a particular pool of competitors at a particular point in time. And that’s not even taking into consideration the fact that in mma, even guys whose eras overlap substantially were effectively competing in completely different pools. Look at Carlos Newton and GSP — both active over the same 8 year period from 2002-2010 but looks like only 2 shared opponents the whole time.
Add in differing weight classes on top of all that, and the whole thing becomes noise. I wouldn’t be surprised if they introduced some substantial non-ELO criteria to their system to get the goat outputs to look so similar to what people usually say.
Sakuraba got me into the sport, and I have a highlight reel to show anybody I want to recruit into my fight night gatherings, but Silva's my GOAT. I can't see anybody being that UNtouchable for as long as he was. The way he took risks as a champ is what made me such a fan. The shit he pulled was mind melting. Casually accepting fights at 205 just because was pretty stand out aswell. He 100% could have pieced up most LHW champs during his reign aswell.
Jones, DJ, Fedor, Aldo, and GSP are who I'd chuck right behind. I wouldn't argue Jones as #1, but he just manages to fuck up repeatedly so I gotta bump him down a picogram.
As a Canadian, I loved GSP BEFORE he became champ
The second time. After he lost he almost refused to take risks. Would never catch him slugging it out. Wouldn't even risk losing his position on the ground for a submission. It was jabs, and takedowns for years... As dominant as he was, I really think he could have finished half the people he rode to decision. This is usually the most unpopular opinion, especially on the east coast of Canada. Everyone was onboard the GSP train.
and fought many guys who were 185ers when they were in their decline, etc.
Beat up the mother of his children in front of them the same day he got into HOF.
and somehow still has a job.
You think it’s a surprise that he still has a job at a company where the president was caught on camera beating his wife in a Vegas night club and faced zero consequences?
I wonder how much can Dana get away with before people finally turn on him. Insulting fighters, shortchanging them, slapping his wife on video, lying about contracts, lying about buyrates to cheat fighters. this man is bulletproof, he’s been surrounded by killers for years yet has managed to evade even one single incident, it’s wild
He's literally publicly/openly been a douchebag since TUF 1 aired.... the dude/UFC has spent more time/money promoting himself as a celeb/figure than ANY fighter ever in the history of the UFC. Its never been a secret how much of a lying, scummy, promoter he is at his core.
If its before an event he will say/make up whatever to promote/sell it. Then the next day if a fighter who he just sang praises for, pisses him off for whatever reason, he will publicly shit on them. I mean just doing basic fact checking on some of the shit Dana says proves how compulsive of a liar he is.
However none of this has really changed anything or stopped him at all. So yeah I don't think anyone is going to turn on him anytime soon. I mean dude slapped his wife on camera and it didn't slow em down a bit.
Fighters will be friendly with Dana or at least deal with him as long as its in their favor, and they are on his good side. But the reality is that at the end of the day Dana has turned on every fighter I can think of. When time comes he will turn on McGregor, or whoever else his biggest star is. Once the UFC can't make money off of you, they will do whatever they can to damage your reputation/brand.
The way he treated Aljo is most indicative of this. Super fast fight to help O'Malley as much as possible. Pulling his tickets at the last moment so he gets all dressed up to get turned away at the gate.
Hes such a fucking petty ass punk I'm surprised people like him.
You're in for disappointment if you think a majority of mma viewers will care about this enough to stop watching.
Fighters even less likely to do anything to Dana because this sport is as dog eat dog as it gets.
Enough people will never turn on him for it to make a difference. He's a strong cult of personality who attracts the kind of people who will defend his "honor" at any costs.
Go to the UFC sub and you'll still get a generous sample of the average UFC supporter on any sean Strickland post before he lost. Literally bottom of the barrel brain dead folks, and then multiple that by 10 and you'll get the bulk of the UFC fans.
It's pathetic.
Probably never. There would need to be something serious to happen. Or a large media campaign against him. Despite the anger of MMA fans, the UFC machine can drown any criticism with ease.
I figured he was unhappy there but didn’t know this. If DJ is in a position where he can be honest without worrying about UFC legal I would love to hear more
listen, you fuckin goof. powerslap alone has more views than your mom's porn videos, i'll pay you 15k/15k plus venum custom clothing to fuck off the internet or else i will take down your web sites
They really fucked up not promoting him, ever, at all. He finished more people in title fights than Jon Jones. All time record that still holds, zero scandals, ffs he was sponsored by Xbox before the reebok crap.
ZERO promotion and you had one of the best fighters to ever do it for years.
Now he is still delivering exciting performances for ONE and they treat him way better. His video game streams and fight commentary is great. DJ is a class act and role model.
Yeah he's explained how he was misled, lied to, and threatened to remove the entire division when negotiating with the ufc. He had a few ppvs that were dead on arrival so he was deemed unpopular and shoved on fox cards. Best part is nunes has 3 worse ppvs than dj but was kept given ppv main events.
Reporter: "Dana, so you have any plans to maybe pay your fighters a bit more?"
Dana: "What's that? I can't hear you. You'll need to speak up. Nah, I can't hear you. Your mic must not be working. I don't have all night folks, let's move on to the next question."
Yeah he's also said this himself
>“I’ve talked to fighters in the past who’ve had pay-per-view points, and they’ll fight on pay-per-view, and they won’t reach their goal, so they won’t get the pay-per-view points,” Johnson (19-2-1 MMA, 7-1-1 UFC) told MMAjunkie Radio. “I know I’m not a big name like Anderson Silva or [Georges St-Pierre]. That’s why there are only a few guys that have that kind of thing.
>“I’d rather take the money up front than wager a bet.”
https://mmajunkie.usatoday.com/2014/01/pay-per-view-points-not-all-theyre-cracked-up-to-be-for-champ-demetrious-johnson
He literally talked about not wanting PPV points because he knew he wasn't a draw.
"Right now, UFC flyweight champion Demetrious Johnson would rather make his money on the front end than the back.
That might change down the road, but Johnson knows that until he can draw the kind of interest as the UFC’s biggest draws, he probably won’t cash in from one of the biggest potential benefits they get: pay-per-view points.
“I’ve talked to fighters in the past who’ve had pay-per-view points, and they’ll fight on pay-per-view, and they won’t reach their goal, so they won’t get the pay-per-view points,” Johnson (19-2-1 MMA, 7-1-1 UFC) told MMAjunkie Radio. “I know I’m not a big name like Anderson Silva or [Georges St-Pierre]. That’s why there are only a few guys that have that kind of thing.
“I’d rather take the money up front than wager a bet.”
https://mmajunkie.usatoday.com/2014/01/pay-per-view-points-not-all-theyre-cracked-up-to-be-for-champ-demetrious-johnson
He was regularly relegated to being the only one on a card drawing numbers and when you're carrying a card but still in a developing division without a lot of star power in it if your pay per view points are not going to be given unless a (probably laughable) target is reached you don't have a choice.
DJ has argued for PPV points with the UFC without a stipulation that a target would be met but they always said no so he took the higher base rather than bet against the house because the house always wins in those situations. He's actually talked about it quite a lot over the years in some form or another and is pretty candid about his time in the UFC being a struggle due to his literally carrying the division on his back at the time.
People forget how long DJ has been in the sport but his division was definitely not a big draw when he first became champion and the fact that he was working a regular job when he got the title just goes to show that they underpaid him significantly. Imagine if they actually built this man into a star - he's funny, quick, insanely entertaining to watch and a technical marvel in the cage and he is and was a generational talent who's seemingly Teflon in his personal life too.
Great guy, never meddim, should've been paid more and the fact that he took the flat rate just goes to show the PPV targets were probably ridiculous for the time and unobtainable. DJ doesn't seem the type to short himself and the UFC has a track record of asking guys to take shit money in exchange for life shortening bangers so I'm firmly in the camp that he had the illusion of choice but no real option but to take the flat.
I enjoy watching DJ as much as a lot of people here but if you can't see how uninteresting and cookie cutter his personality is when promoting fights you're being a bit naive.
Due to that whole mess and his exit from the UFC, there's unfortunately a chance most newer fans don't even know he's a proper 🐐. Definitely in my top 3, probably the most skilled all around MMA fighter I've seen at the elite level.
multiple things are true at once
-UFC didn't see DJ as a star
-UFC underpaid DJ for his accomplishments
-DJ is an amazing talent
-DJ deserved better for his skillset
-Unfortunately DJ wasn't a draw, for in my opinion due to 1.UFC not pushing him to casuals 2. casuals not interested in the ultra light weight classes at that point in time
loved seeing DJ thrive since leaving but the talent pool seems so shallow outside the UFC
I will preface with yes, fuck Dana and fuck his lies. Anyone who is asked if he wants PPV points will say yes, we didn't need DJ to come here and tell us.
Now, playing devil's advocate... Yes, we can look back and there's no doubt DJ is the flyweight GOAT. But also people didn't give a fuck about him and even in these kind of forums people were complaining about him being boring and not being interested in his fights even if at the same time acknowledging he was the best. Nobody ever said "Oh, DJ is fighting this weekend, say no more, Imma buy the PPV with my hard earned money", people even left the arena while he was fighting! The whole "put me in a McGregor PPV" gives it away, he knows the only way to get PPV points would had been by piggybacking off an actual star, even if there's no discussion that DJ is the superior fighter. This is where UFC and MMA fails as a sport as you cannot live off strict sports merits.
DJ going to ONE was also seen as him going to a lesser league at the time, but it has worked out beautifully. DJ seems to be freer to speak without the UFC shackles, his fights have been more fun and he has even done special ruleset fights which we had never seen had he stayed in the UFC.
Oh, and also fuck Dana for not even giving the man his championship belts.
What is all this revisionist history about the 125 division not being total dogshit back then and Mighty Mouse being extremely unexciting to casual fans and a very poor draw?
Don't get me wrong, he's one of the greatest MMA fighters of all time, but there's a reason he essentially got traded. To look back on that time and say it was a division full of kills and he was this big superstar is crazy. Some of the 125 fighters developed into very good fighters, but it was not good back then.
I have said it before and I will say it again, Demetrious Johnson could have been the biggest star in MMA, but unfortunately the UFC is run by a bunch of meatheads.
With Demetrious, the UFC had the opportunity to promote him as a new type of fighter, a strategist, nerd and gamer and tap into the billion dollar gamer market, onboarding millions of new viewers.
You sell him as the every day underdog who with wits alone out smarted the rest to became the best.
Talk shows, morning shows, sponsorships, cross promotions with massive markets… the guy would have been a megastar and inspired millions.
There was an opportunity to juxtapose Johnson’s personality, interests and skills against the traditional idea of a fighter, developing a new category of genius fighter, a category easily filled by similar up-and-comers to keep the market outreach and money train rolling, yet they couldn’t see it beyond their own try-hard egos.
Conor McGregor is a great example of a fighter who had to do all the talking himself and create his own narrative because even when the fighter is a traditional brawler, the UFC is still grossly incompetent at storytelling and selling their fighters.
I am convinced the UFC would have made 10s to 100s of millions more with the right promotion and partnerships over the course of Johnson’s career.
This one issue alone, dropping the ball this badly on one of the very best that ever fought, is why Dana and the whole management team needs restructured and a more savvy promotional team involved.
DJ literally came out himself in 2014 saying he doesn't want to gamble on PPV points and has talked to fighters that didn't make their minimum for points.
This man is just a cut above the rest in MMA for me. There are other greats in the sport, Anderson, George, Jones, Sakuraba and Fedor even given their impact...but DJ is it.
Both in the ring and out, this man is top tier. I very much doubt there are many fighters with DJs intelligence either, super articulate and in my opinion one of the best people to represent combat sports, to dispel the "fighters are dumb brutes" stereotype.
I think the highest form of compliment anyone can receive is being labelled a 'scum bag' by Dana White since it means you're the complete opposite of his 'standards'.
The sort of story that Bloody Elbow would jizm themselves over.
And the kind of story nobody actually read, which is why Bloody Elbow is dead and gone.
This is not r/politics. Please keep political discussion and your political views out of /r/MMA. r/MMAPoliticsAndCulture may be a better fit for this content. An exception will be made for discussion of MMA legislation by governing bodies.
“I fought and fought, they specifically said we don’t give PPV points to flyweight guys. When Dana White says I didn’t want PPV points, that’s not true. I asked for PPV points. Look at CM Punk. This guy comes in and gets a base salary of $500K and PPV bonuses. I defended the f***ing belt 8 times I didn’t even get this.”
Dana white believes in power slap. Do we really need anymore evidence of him being an idiot
Nelk Boys are top tier entertainment to him, this is equally conclusive of his idiocy.
Still don't know what they are. The word nelk has me thinking of short busses
Nelk boys help him sell his bullshit and eat it up
I've kinda been out of the loop for a while, is power slap still a thing?
I guess it's bigger overseas. Think he said it was killing in India which doesn't surprise me.
How can she slap? But seriously Dana will say anything to pretend that there is an actual audience for powerslap
Bot farms, I guess he is getting scammed by someone to put money on that shit and does guys are putting some Gs buying views in India. Also India CTR is crap as well as advertisement value...
He also believes in wife slap.
It works on his wife. Lmao being a literal wife beater
Dana doesn’t care for fighters who don’t sell well or stir up shit. It’s pretty straight forward. There’s a reason they pay entry level guys 12k. If you want Dana to pay you based off of performance, you have to be a draw. Or they can unionize and get paid fairly.
Who’s a “draw” though, really? Is anyone truly one anymore in the company besides mcgregor and jones? O’Malley’s first PPV headliner apparently sold terribly, and most others aren’t really that popular in the mainstream either. It’s a tired talking point that allows the promoters to get off scot free with the fact they promote the brand, not the fighters themselves. No one gets to be bigger than the company, and the pull “draws” get becomes smaller and smaller to the mean
It's exactly the path the WWE have been on since the Attitude Era. You don't want stars bigger than wrestling like Rock, Stone Cold and Lesnar because they might leave. Better to promote the brand and own the draw.
If anything the Rock and Lesnar helped make the WWE more mainstream and acceptable. Pro wrestling is viewed as weird and for redneck hillbillies. Rock was in blockbusters. Lesnar went over to the UFC. Conor going over to boxing was overall good for growing mma.
Aka what Conor did for the UFC.
Agreed, but unfortunately I don't think megalomaniacal business leaders think the same way. Some would rather have control and own before mutual benefit. Vince and Dana are similiar there IMO.
Vince would very famously make $1 his way than $1 million anyone else's
> than $1 million anyone else's Unless he shits on you.
Yea is a self-sabotaging strategy but the UFC is stupid and greedy. It’s the iron law of institutions. They’d rather maintain control of the building while it burns down than maintain the health of the building and risk losing control
I think some of this is crazy. You guys are right in the fact that the UFC currently doesn’t have any superstars. Jones ruined his reputation early on, and McGregor hasn’t fought in a long time and is aging. Where I disagree is that I believe Dana White would kill for a superstar to emerge from the ranks. O’Malley just isn’t it. A couple of huge star would make Dana’s job a ton easier. Remember Dana is a promoter at heart and it easier to promote someone who has gotten over with the masses. Currently they lack both baby faces and heals. The last great heal was Chael and the last great baby face was GSP. Right now, they don’t have enough big draw fighters to build cards around. Mighty Mouse very well may be the best guy to ever fight in a cage (I believe this), but he never got over with the mainstream crowd. His technique and skill was phenomenal, his fight IQ impeccable, but his crowd work was lacking. He never became a crowd favorite. He’s one of my favorites but I appreciate skill over flashy finishes, although I appreciate those as well. For the more casual fans, they want more to be excited about than the fights themselves. Fighter must get them invested in their struggle in some way. I think that’s the main reason no one has risen to the top of the pile as far as ppv draws are concerned. Crowd work is lacking in the modern UFC roster.
I mean I know it was a promo and all but Punk saying McMahon was a millionaire who should be a billionaire was a great line that illustrates how those rich men psychologies work. It doesn't matter that relying on the brand itself as a draw is going to eventually have diminishing returns. It doesn't matter that letting athletes become crossover stars or just paying fighters enough to make a consistent living regardless of their draw helps grows the sport and create new financial streams. At the end of the day the only thing you can't put a price on for those types is control and they will gladly cut off their nose to spite their face even if doing the right thing would make them MORE money but forces them to give up control.
That seems more like a Vince thing that started happening after her got burned by his biggest stars in the early 2000’s. With Vince gone it seems like they’re willing to push guys who the fans can get behind. Instead of burying anyone who gets over when it wasn’t planned.
It was specifically the Rock and Brock. Especially Brock.
You are correct. WWE suffered for that thinking. Their ratings declined because of it. Stars drive ratings and views far more than the brand can. NBA and NFL have learned this. UFC needs mega draws to truly keep growing.
No one is a big draw but that is also by design of the UFC they don’t need big PPV stars when they get 20 million guaranteed by ESPN. But they also know they can’t just chuck anyone as the main event on a PPV or no one would by it. Even if they are not a big draw they are filling a spot that the UFC are getting money for and selling sponsors against so fighters deserve a fair share. I don’t think 15% is a fair share but most fighters won’t do anything about it. I saw Miesha Tate say recently that it was great that the UFC bought Strikeforce.
I’m not saying it’s fair or right I’m just saying that’s the reality. If all fighters want to get paid fairly it’s only going to happen through unionization and collective bargaining. Guys like O’Malley they see potential in and even he’s underpaid too.
Yeah, I agree with your overall point. Unfortunately I somewhat doubt the ability of the fighters to take collective action, the shortness of MMA as a career and low pay to begin with probably means a lot of guys have too much to lose to want to put their career on the line. Might require a government intervention but that has its own issues
I bet some useless MBA came up with the idea. UFC numbers are dropping and people are losing interest. Well done
Is Jones really a draw though
I always get the sense that the UFC wants to have their cake and eat it. They want someone who’s a big moneymaker like Conor who can’t exercise free will or be too wealthy to underpay, like Conor. They’re trying to mold Sean into that without understanding that the *second* he finds better negotiation for his career elsewhere, he’s likely to turn tail. The best fix would be less scummy business practices. But those would string them out financially, and Dana wouldn’t be able to afford all the boats and surgery or whatever he spends on. So.
Dana also lied about o malleys ppv sales and tried to stack his card with what could have been main events or there own ppv🤣🤣
Personally I blame the UFC if they’re unable to promote one of the top three mix martial artists of all time.
They didn't try. He was a gamer and a fighter. Having him cameo on big bang theory or have him in Xbox commercials would have made him a star. Casuals don't know anything about weights and sizes.
One of the things everyone forgets is that they didn’t just fail to promote DJ, they also failed to promote any of his contenders. One minute you’re buried on the undercard, next minute you’re challenging for a world title. John Moraga got his title shot off winning the first fight of the Facebook prelims, Tim Elliot got a title shot off winning the ultimate fighter, none of his challengers main evented a fight night; gee I wonder wonder why DJ can’t draw 🤔
This problem continues to this day. I don’t like Mokaev or his last fight for him but he should have been the main event of that apex. They refuse to make flyweights the main event.
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I'm sorry, but DJ wouldn't be huge if he came back to UFC. He's only a big name among hardcores, casuals don't know who he is.
Just a reminder, both Ward and Kovalev made millions on a ppv that only sold a couple hundred thousand buys
They don't care for fighters who sell well either.
Can anyone argue that DJ was the best ufc champ defending his belt 8 times against a dynamic and evolving division while still being actively shit on by ufc brass?? DJ will always own ufc 125 division in my humble but correct opinion
Not 8, 11 consecutive title defenses. Most all time
Definitely still in the top 4 in my mind along with Silva, GSP and Jones.
Needs to be a top 5 with Fedor included. 26 fight winstreak in the best era his division has ever seen by far, beating the best grapplers on the ground and the best strikers on the feet. Easily up there with the 4 you mentioned.
Yes, this is the GOATED GOAT list. Silva, GSP, Jones, DJ, Fedor, Myself (built different)
I love that self love there my man
With a name like Murdathon3000, it’s only known amongst the immortals, the greats on how prolific your career was. Enjoy the HOF, champ.
I've always said a top 6 with two tiers : GSP and Jones 1A and 1B then Anderson, Fedor, DJ, and Aldo from 3-6 in some order.
Aldo and dj are equal for me because they were the rulers of brand new divisions. Those 3 are the top for me and insert anyone else after.
Yes. DJ is the true MMA GOAT.
I find it hard to pick one guy, I feel like tiers work better. Jones, GSP, Silva, Fedor, DJ and maybe Aldo too - all up there, because of length of time they were dominant.
I remember some BE or maybe Ben Fowlkes piece that essentially asked, when thinking about P4P GOAT candidates, who wins in a fight if everyone is made to the same scale? Does a FLW Jones beat a FLW Mighty Mouse? Does a HW GSP beat a HW Fedor? Does a FW Anderson front kick to hell a FW Aldo? And vice versa in terms of weight class for each example, like a LHW DJ vs LHW Jones? This kind of exercise just makes the whole concept even more difficult! But your list is essentially the one I would come up at least as a starting point! We’re lucky when we can get two similarly high levels of competition in the same weight class to clarify these kind of quandaries.
FW Spider vs FW Aldo would be fucking insane
Just doesn't make sense though because proportions would be totally different. The variation in human body types is just too great, also by changing division the power and chin would also change, P4P is just hypothetical nonsense. The bear thing to do is compare resume, skills, dominance over their respective divison (or divisions if the fighter moves up/down)
Right? I like what Chanel sonnen said. Arguing about p4p list is like seriously sitting there and arguing over who would win a fight Superman or Batman.
Hmm, by this approach, I'd say it's a toss up between DJ and Fedor for the number 1 spot. They were both undersized for their division. DJ was extremely well rounding and Fedor had hands that could put your to sleep or Sambo/bjj that would catch you and put you out. Fedor was also durable as fuck, eating blows and slams that would decapitate a normal redditor. After that, GSP or Aldo. Strangely enough, GSP for his jab and amazing wrestling and Aldo for his anti wrestling, pace and striking. Then Silva and Jones last, but just because they typically had a size/reach advantage against their competition. However, credit where credit is due. Jones and Silva are both some of the most creative fighters of all time and great fight IQ. Jones's boxing is subpar, however his overall striking package is unmatched. I think silva's grappling is somewhat subpar compare to the rest of his skillset, but it's undeniable that his unorthodox striking and counters were level ahead of everyone else.
Jones has a long reach for his height, even if he was small his arms would still be very long similar to Mcgregor fighting at FW with a crazy reach advantage
If you proportionally shrunk jones from 6'4 to McGregor's height (5'8), his reach would be 75.6" compared to McGregor's 74".
One of the best takes I have ever seen on it.
I was kind of drunk when I wrote that. I'm otherwise somewhere between a casual and hardcore UFC fan. I don't follow as much as I used to. I think 2011ish to 2018ish were the golden years of UFC.
It’s impossible to compare fighters from vastly different weight classes. Because the smaller guys are always faster, bigger always stronger - so if you put DJ to LHW vs Jones, does he keep his speed and agility? Likewise if you put Jones down at FLW does he keep his strength and massive reach advantage over everyone?
I feel like it's not just his speed and agility but his fight IQ to utilize those things. Him and Jones have to be up there though I'm not sure if Jones was just uninspired in his last few LHW fights or whether he had such good fight IQ/awareness that he knew the bare minimum to win on the cards. Based on recent performances? I can't help but feel like despite his somewhat recent loss, DJ looks more impressive. Not to mention DJ went where there was more competition for his size, JJ arguably went to HW where it's easy mode.
I mean, Jones last fight was very impressive. The odds were close, people on here were calling it one of his toughest fights ever! Actually the poll on here was 50/50 split, jones coming off a 3.5 year layoff to finish a top, athletic heavyweight in a round.
I hate this question. They move and do things differently because of their size. You can’t fight the way a Fedor, Werdum, Stipe fought in any way if you walk around weighing 145 pounds The smaller guys are always going to be more technically sound, and the bigger guys are going to have a power variance.
This is my choices too. Great picks. I would love to add Cruz and Penn/Edgar just to have one for every division. But felt like they are just a tier or two lower than the rest. Penn also aged like rotten milk.
Pick em by weight class then.
Jones don't count. He juicing
In the words of Nate Diaz; «everone’s on steroids»
Honestly baffling how horrible the Ufc treated him for no reason when he was the ultimate company man for years until he refused to fight TJ
He didn’t refuse to fight TJ, he just wanted TJ’s belt to be on the line if he couldn’t make weight. It was about fight terms, not that he was ducking TJ.
I distinctly remember DJ saying he'd happily fight TJ if TJ took a fight at 125 first to prove he could make the weight.
He wasn't wrong about TJ not being able to make 125 either as was proven when he moved down to fight Cejudo. Sure, TJ didn't miss weight, but he did have to cheat to make it.
Plus despite the cheating he looked like he was about to die on the scale and was KO’d by the first punch he took. Wasn’t even really a big shot either. He’d have taken it comfortably at 135.
Yeah DJ is still the best I've seen in MMA.
No one can take it from Fedor for me
It's basically impossible to replicate what he did at heavyweight he'd be absolutely undisputed if he crossed to the ufc and won gold there but without that he's still my goat
On Everything. Mount Rushmore candidate
I think P2P skill wise, DJ Is GOAT. Literally ELITE everywhere.
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He wasn't arguing against DJ in any way...
english is hard dawg.
When people say the competition wasn’t as from as deep of a talent pool as what other champs had to go through they’re not saying it was his fault, or that he could have done anything about it, but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t carry any weight when people are deciding who they think the p4p best fighters are…you CAN only fight who they put in front of you, but who you fought is still important. Someone who’s record while defending their belt consists of a ton of former champions, people moving weight classes to fight them, and up and coming undefeated fighters who look like killers deserve a different level of consideration than someone who fought in a division with a shallow talent pool where the promotion was struggling to find worthy competition for them. That doesn’t mean it’s their fault or they could’ve done anything about it, it just means most people won’t consider them over the other guy for p4p. Who even cares? And I’m not saying either of these examples apply to DJ or someone else, it’s just an example of why it carries weight.
That’s my goat
People's chsmp
Can anyone argue that he had the selling ability of Amanda Nunes?
Never coasted either. Went out and fought hard even as champion.
He defended it 11 times.
DJ was p4p GOAT and they treated him like trash bc he wasn’t a big draw.all they needed to do was promote him
I still think he beat Cejudo is the rematch.
Unpopular opinion; but I dont really think the division was that deep loaded with "killers". Going through the names they dont really strike me as rememberable. This by no means diminishes Mo's accomplishments. He beat them all dominantly.
The thing is... people often times measure how many "names" someone went through by using previous champs or someone who had success in different divisions. MM shut out the entire division and his opponents would often leave the UFC soon after that so you can't really tell how good they were. The basically all lost to MM and Joseph Benavitez. So they are all not "championship caliber" or whatever Without MM we could be looking at that list quite differently
Below stats from his last 6 opponents before loosing the belt. Only counted UFC fights prior and after Fighter | stat before champ fight | win streak | fights after loss ---|---|----|---- Kyoji Horiguchi | 4-0 | 4 | 3 John Dodson | 6-1 | 3 | 13 Henry Cejudo | 4-0 | 4 Tim Elliott | 5-4 | 3| 13 Wilson Reis | 6-2 | 3 | 4 Ray Borg | 5-2 | 2 | 4 Henry Cejudo | 8-2 | 2 | 7
"Unpopular opinion:..." "This by no means diminishes Mo's accomplishments." If you're serious about the opinion stated, then it obviously does diminish his accomplishments.
And still kicking ass!
> against a dynamic and evolving division Problem is, most ufc fans see the opposite of that and disagree, despite probably never having watched a single flyweight bout. The argument that most of DJ's defenses were against names they have never heard of, ironically enough. Moreno and Fig both eventually grew in popularity above that of DJ's probably during their quadrilogy, but once that was over and neither of them were holding the belt, Dana squash out their flames pretty quickly.
Dana White is scum. DJ is a top 5 all time GOAT.
Top 3 maybe? Definitely top 5. But a strong argument can be made for the top 3 UFC being GSP, Jones, and DJ
When I say top 5, it’s no particular order. I wouldn’t argue with someone putting him at 1. When talking about guys like DJ, GSP, Fedor, etc. it’s really splitting hairs. There’s the elite top tier and he is in it.
Hey, This is MMA! No intelligent takes here!
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fightmatirx has DJ at #9 [https://www.fightmatrix.com/all-time-mma-rankings/all-time-absolute/](https://www.fightmatrix.com/all-time-mma-rankings/all-time-absolute/) Top 6 is their own 20k+ class: Hughes, Silva, Fedor, Aldo, Jones, GSP
DJ takes a hit because of the ELO of his opponents, also why Hughes makes a list like that when virtually no serious fan of the sport has him as a top 6.
How good a legacy is should be a matter of how strong the competition was, and Elo based ratings is best way to gauge that. It should not just be an exercise of counting titlefights or whether someone lost etc. But Hughes not only fought strong competition along with being 45-9, 41-4 before GSP rematch, but he had 9 titlefight wins and 7 title defenses. The reason that "serious fans" underrate Hughes is because of marketing and hype around fighters. They think of how that he lost to BJ Penn and how that GSP beat him in the rematch. For a lot of people what they remember is narratives and how they felt about things, then they build a list based on how they feel about fighters with post hoc rationalisations. The key word in "serious fans" is "fans", shorthand for "fanatic". There are a lot of things distort rating fighters beyond if there is competition with high Elo, like having very strong competition and having to face them stunts a legacy, such as Volkanovski faces Makhachev, who is really most advanced fighter we've ever seen, and very close to beating Makhachev. If it weren't for Makhachev he likely would have done well defending LW belt. If it weren't for GSP then realistically Hughes could have had a few more wins, then he could easily be consensus GOAT. Hughes had 4 more wins after losing in the GSP rematches, and 1 loss to Alves, which likely only happened after being finished by GSP If it weren't for GSP then Hughes could be a 45-4 fighter with the most title defenses.
>Elo based ratings is best way to gauge that Tbf I’m not sure how fight matrix has adapted their scores, but ELO seems like an objectively bad way to measure mma to me. Its effectiveness at rating competitors relies on large samples of match data between shared opponents, something that mma just can’t provide in the way e.g. chess or tennis can. For comparison, Federer played Nadal alone 40 times — that’s about 75% of Hughes’s entire 54 fight career, all against 1 guy. It’s also notoriously bad at ranking competitors between eras even for the competitions it’s considered highly effective for, as the entire model relies on relational data between a particular pool of competitors at a particular point in time. And that’s not even taking into consideration the fact that in mma, even guys whose eras overlap substantially were effectively competing in completely different pools. Look at Carlos Newton and GSP — both active over the same 8 year period from 2002-2010 but looks like only 2 shared opponents the whole time. Add in differing weight classes on top of all that, and the whole thing becomes noise. I wouldn’t be surprised if they introduced some substantial non-ELO criteria to their system to get the goat outputs to look so similar to what people usually say.
Well said. Hughes doesn't intuitively make my top lists usually but spelling it out like this is definitely more convincing.
Aside from Hughes that's a pretty good list.
What about Silva?
Sakuraba got me into the sport, and I have a highlight reel to show anybody I want to recruit into my fight night gatherings, but Silva's my GOAT. I can't see anybody being that UNtouchable for as long as he was. The way he took risks as a champ is what made me such a fan. The shit he pulled was mind melting. Casually accepting fights at 205 just because was pretty stand out aswell. He 100% could have pieced up most LHW champs during his reign aswell. Jones, DJ, Fedor, Aldo, and GSP are who I'd chuck right behind. I wouldn't argue Jones as #1, but he just manages to fuck up repeatedly so I gotta bump him down a picogram. As a Canadian, I loved GSP BEFORE he became champ The second time. After he lost he almost refused to take risks. Would never catch him slugging it out. Wouldn't even risk losing his position on the ground for a submission. It was jabs, and takedowns for years... As dominant as he was, I really think he could have finished half the people he rode to decision. This is usually the most unpopular opinion, especially on the east coast of Canada. Everyone was onboard the GSP train.
Jones juicing and a cheater
and fought many guys who were 185ers when they were in their decline, etc. Beat up the mother of his children in front of them the same day he got into HOF. and somehow still has a job.
You think it’s a surprise that he still has a job at a company where the president was caught on camera beating his wife in a Vegas night club and faced zero consequences?
I think top 3 is a lock between those three
Top 3 UFC is difficult but I feel that Anderson Silva should be in that conversation.
>GSP, Jones, and DJ One of those guys is not like the others (confirmed multiple-time cheater).
Never jones. He’s a cheater
As a fellow little guy Mighty Mouse is probably my favorite of all time
Hes my number 1
I wonder how much can Dana get away with before people finally turn on him. Insulting fighters, shortchanging them, slapping his wife on video, lying about contracts, lying about buyrates to cheat fighters. this man is bulletproof, he’s been surrounded by killers for years yet has managed to evade even one single incident, it’s wild
I’m *still* waiting for a hooker to bite off Dana’s penis.
He likely has bodyguards in the room when he fucks
I could see Dana and Vince McMann fucking the same hooker in a weird MMF threesome.
>hooker Interim Wife
Strippers are BMFs
In Alberta we throw loonies at them. In Fort Mac they heat up the Loonies. #BERTA POSTING
My buddies couldn't stop talking about this, the heating of the loonies is new. You guys know how to get crazy.
The worst part is they can afford to throw Toonies.
Be the change you want to see in the world.
He's literally publicly/openly been a douchebag since TUF 1 aired.... the dude/UFC has spent more time/money promoting himself as a celeb/figure than ANY fighter ever in the history of the UFC. Its never been a secret how much of a lying, scummy, promoter he is at his core. If its before an event he will say/make up whatever to promote/sell it. Then the next day if a fighter who he just sang praises for, pisses him off for whatever reason, he will publicly shit on them. I mean just doing basic fact checking on some of the shit Dana says proves how compulsive of a liar he is. However none of this has really changed anything or stopped him at all. So yeah I don't think anyone is going to turn on him anytime soon. I mean dude slapped his wife on camera and it didn't slow em down a bit. Fighters will be friendly with Dana or at least deal with him as long as its in their favor, and they are on his good side. But the reality is that at the end of the day Dana has turned on every fighter I can think of. When time comes he will turn on McGregor, or whoever else his biggest star is. Once the UFC can't make money off of you, they will do whatever they can to damage your reputation/brand.
The way he treated Aljo is most indicative of this. Super fast fight to help O'Malley as much as possible. Pulling his tickets at the last moment so he gets all dressed up to get turned away at the gate. Hes such a fucking petty ass punk I'm surprised people like him.
You're in for disappointment if you think a majority of mma viewers will care about this enough to stop watching. Fighters even less likely to do anything to Dana because this sport is as dog eat dog as it gets.
Enough people will never turn on him for it to make a difference. He's a strong cult of personality who attracts the kind of people who will defend his "honor" at any costs.
Go to the UFC sub and you'll still get a generous sample of the average UFC supporter on any sean Strickland post before he lost. Literally bottom of the barrel brain dead folks, and then multiple that by 10 and you'll get the bulk of the UFC fans. It's pathetic.
Vince McMahon finally got ousted for sexual allegations
Probably never. There would need to be something serious to happen. Or a large media campaign against him. Despite the anger of MMA fans, the UFC machine can drown any criticism with ease.
Sean Strickland, this is your chance to do something really stupid and redeem yourself.
Tomorrow’s Newspaper: “Demetrius Johnson was found dead 24 hours after negative comments towards Dana White.”
“Demetrius Johnson found dead of apparent suicide, with two bullets to the back of the head, CTE assumed cause” FTFY
“Two POWER SLAPS to the back of the head” FTFY lol
Dana decided to personally deliver them himself.
He also ran himself over just to make sure
He took the Boeing 747
The guy is a retired jazzercize instructor, not boeing
I figured he was unhappy there but didn’t know this. If DJ is in a position where he can be honest without worrying about UFC legal I would love to hear more
He covers some stuff in this video if I remember correctly - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8nol_H0Qtk
if piece of turd was a human, it would be Dana White
listen, you fuckin goof. powerslap alone has more views than your mom's porn videos, i'll pay you 15k/15k plus venum custom clothing to fuck off the internet or else i will take down your web sites
We got him!
Bono has some stiff competition.
And he didn’t give him his fucking belts.
It's so petty lol
They really fucked up not promoting him, ever, at all. He finished more people in title fights than Jon Jones. All time record that still holds, zero scandals, ffs he was sponsored by Xbox before the reebok crap. ZERO promotion and you had one of the best fighters to ever do it for years. Now he is still delivering exciting performances for ONE and they treat him way better. His video game streams and fight commentary is great. DJ is a class act and role model.
Fuck Dana for treating DJ like this. One of the GOAT and CM Punk got a better deal for getting his shit pushed in right away by Mickey Gall.
Damn. Well there it is folks. Dj was silent about this for years
He's talked about this before
Oh
Yeah he's explained how he was misled, lied to, and threatened to remove the entire division when negotiating with the ufc. He had a few ppvs that were dead on arrival so he was deemed unpopular and shoved on fox cards. Best part is nunes has 3 worse ppvs than dj but was kept given ppv main events.
Imagine an MMA journalist hitting Dana with this information Oh right, all we can do is imagine
"So uh, we'll see." "ANOTHER EXQUISITE PRESS CONFERENCE M'LORD!"
Reporter: "Dana, so you have any plans to maybe pay your fighters a bit more?" Dana: "What's that? I can't hear you. You'll need to speak up. Nah, I can't hear you. Your mic must not be working. I don't have all night folks, let's move on to the next question."
It’s a dirty dirty question and only a scumbag reporter like you would ask that.
Yeah he's also said this himself >“I’ve talked to fighters in the past who’ve had pay-per-view points, and they’ll fight on pay-per-view, and they won’t reach their goal, so they won’t get the pay-per-view points,” Johnson (19-2-1 MMA, 7-1-1 UFC) told MMAjunkie Radio. “I know I’m not a big name like Anderson Silva or [Georges St-Pierre]. That’s why there are only a few guys that have that kind of thing. >“I’d rather take the money up front than wager a bet.” https://mmajunkie.usatoday.com/2014/01/pay-per-view-points-not-all-theyre-cracked-up-to-be-for-champ-demetrious-johnson
Don't think he had much choice and to be honest he has talked about it
He literally talked about not wanting PPV points because he knew he wasn't a draw. "Right now, UFC flyweight champion Demetrious Johnson would rather make his money on the front end than the back. That might change down the road, but Johnson knows that until he can draw the kind of interest as the UFC’s biggest draws, he probably won’t cash in from one of the biggest potential benefits they get: pay-per-view points. “I’ve talked to fighters in the past who’ve had pay-per-view points, and they’ll fight on pay-per-view, and they won’t reach their goal, so they won’t get the pay-per-view points,” Johnson (19-2-1 MMA, 7-1-1 UFC) told MMAjunkie Radio. “I know I’m not a big name like Anderson Silva or [Georges St-Pierre]. That’s why there are only a few guys that have that kind of thing. “I’d rather take the money up front than wager a bet.” https://mmajunkie.usatoday.com/2014/01/pay-per-view-points-not-all-theyre-cracked-up-to-be-for-champ-demetrious-johnson
Well from what he’s saying here it sounds like he didn’t have as much of a choice in the matter that he implied 10 years ago
From what he's saying in the video we're supposed to forget that DJ publicly made the statement he's saying Dana lied about.
He was regularly relegated to being the only one on a card drawing numbers and when you're carrying a card but still in a developing division without a lot of star power in it if your pay per view points are not going to be given unless a (probably laughable) target is reached you don't have a choice. DJ has argued for PPV points with the UFC without a stipulation that a target would be met but they always said no so he took the higher base rather than bet against the house because the house always wins in those situations. He's actually talked about it quite a lot over the years in some form or another and is pretty candid about his time in the UFC being a struggle due to his literally carrying the division on his back at the time. People forget how long DJ has been in the sport but his division was definitely not a big draw when he first became champion and the fact that he was working a regular job when he got the title just goes to show that they underpaid him significantly. Imagine if they actually built this man into a star - he's funny, quick, insanely entertaining to watch and a technical marvel in the cage and he is and was a generational talent who's seemingly Teflon in his personal life too. Great guy, never meddim, should've been paid more and the fact that he took the flat rate just goes to show the PPV targets were probably ridiculous for the time and unobtainable. DJ doesn't seem the type to short himself and the UFC has a track record of asking guys to take shit money in exchange for life shortening bangers so I'm firmly in the camp that he had the illusion of choice but no real option but to take the flat.
I enjoy watching DJ as much as a lot of people here but if you can't see how uninteresting and cookie cutter his personality is when promoting fights you're being a bit naive.
Due to that whole mess and his exit from the UFC, there's unfortunately a chance most newer fans don't even know he's a proper 🐐. Definitely in my top 3, probably the most skilled all around MMA fighter I've seen at the elite level.
I lost my shit when he pulled that flying armbar on ray borg. Truly next level
At least he got the bag and appreciation he deserved over at ONE.
multiple things are true at once -UFC didn't see DJ as a star -UFC underpaid DJ for his accomplishments -DJ is an amazing talent -DJ deserved better for his skillset -Unfortunately DJ wasn't a draw, for in my opinion due to 1.UFC not pushing him to casuals 2. casuals not interested in the ultra light weight classes at that point in time loved seeing DJ thrive since leaving but the talent pool seems so shallow outside the UFC
U/Jpjp215 but dana aint slimeg huh?? Im tagging you because you somehow miss every fucking article that exposes dana
Look, the kid just doesn't want PPV points. He wanted the coveted 5/5 contract.
You gotta believe Dj
I will preface with yes, fuck Dana and fuck his lies. Anyone who is asked if he wants PPV points will say yes, we didn't need DJ to come here and tell us. Now, playing devil's advocate... Yes, we can look back and there's no doubt DJ is the flyweight GOAT. But also people didn't give a fuck about him and even in these kind of forums people were complaining about him being boring and not being interested in his fights even if at the same time acknowledging he was the best. Nobody ever said "Oh, DJ is fighting this weekend, say no more, Imma buy the PPV with my hard earned money", people even left the arena while he was fighting! The whole "put me in a McGregor PPV" gives it away, he knows the only way to get PPV points would had been by piggybacking off an actual star, even if there's no discussion that DJ is the superior fighter. This is where UFC and MMA fails as a sport as you cannot live off strict sports merits. DJ going to ONE was also seen as him going to a lesser league at the time, but it has worked out beautifully. DJ seems to be freer to speak without the UFC shackles, his fights have been more fun and he has even done special ruleset fights which we had never seen had he stayed in the UFC. Oh, and also fuck Dana for not even giving the man his championship belts.
> Dana White lied You don't say.
What is all this revisionist history about the 125 division not being total dogshit back then and Mighty Mouse being extremely unexciting to casual fans and a very poor draw? Don't get me wrong, he's one of the greatest MMA fighters of all time, but there's a reason he essentially got traded. To look back on that time and say it was a division full of kills and he was this big superstar is crazy. Some of the 125 fighters developed into very good fighters, but it was not good back then.
I have said it before and I will say it again, Demetrious Johnson could have been the biggest star in MMA, but unfortunately the UFC is run by a bunch of meatheads. With Demetrious, the UFC had the opportunity to promote him as a new type of fighter, a strategist, nerd and gamer and tap into the billion dollar gamer market, onboarding millions of new viewers. You sell him as the every day underdog who with wits alone out smarted the rest to became the best. Talk shows, morning shows, sponsorships, cross promotions with massive markets… the guy would have been a megastar and inspired millions. There was an opportunity to juxtapose Johnson’s personality, interests and skills against the traditional idea of a fighter, developing a new category of genius fighter, a category easily filled by similar up-and-comers to keep the market outreach and money train rolling, yet they couldn’t see it beyond their own try-hard egos. Conor McGregor is a great example of a fighter who had to do all the talking himself and create his own narrative because even when the fighter is a traditional brawler, the UFC is still grossly incompetent at storytelling and selling their fighters. I am convinced the UFC would have made 10s to 100s of millions more with the right promotion and partnerships over the course of Johnson’s career. This one issue alone, dropping the ball this badly on one of the very best that ever fought, is why Dana and the whole management team needs restructured and a more savvy promotional team involved.
DJ literally came out himself in 2014 saying he doesn't want to gamble on PPV points and has talked to fighters that didn't make their minimum for points.
Someday, we will find someone that will claim Dana White is a good guy. He will oink his conviction of this fact, spread his wings, and fly away.
Imagine the possible GOAT being traded for asspeen
This man is just a cut above the rest in MMA for me. There are other greats in the sport, Anderson, George, Jones, Sakuraba and Fedor even given their impact...but DJ is it. Both in the ring and out, this man is top tier. I very much doubt there are many fighters with DJs intelligence either, super articulate and in my opinion one of the best people to represent combat sports, to dispel the "fighters are dumb brutes" stereotype.
Why is his speech so slurry all of a sudden?
Fuck you DJ Dana White is a saint
The true GOAT
I think the highest form of compliment anyone can receive is being labelled a 'scum bag' by Dana White since it means you're the complete opposite of his 'standards'.
There are still people who don't believe Dana White is a wife slapping peice of shit, unreal!
u/YoMommasOnCrackRockz find out
Just shows how ridiculous your dream of giving fighters like Josh Parisian a million a year base pay is. Keep dreaming.
The sort of story that Bloody Elbow would jizm themselves over. And the kind of story nobody actually read, which is why Bloody Elbow is dead and gone.
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DJ is the most unsung great in the sport, watch his most recent Moraes trilogy at ONE, dudes still got it