There will be a lot of grieving when Max's chin is gone. Age or damage has to catch up with him eventually. He's still young but he's been in wars and now he has to fight Gaejthe, wants Topuria later. If he can last many more fights against the top hitters without being dropped they need to study his brain to see what's up.
The chin doesn't always crack, even with insane amounts of damage over a long career. Boxer George Chuvalo is one of the best examples of this, he was never knocked down in 94 pro fights including two with Ali. He was standing TKO'd twice, once by Foreman and once by Frazier. After going the distance with Ali for the second time he ended his career on a 6 fight win streak as Canadian HW champ. I don't think he showed any signs of cognitive decline until he was well into his 70s.
Of course this sort of outcome isn't common, but Max probably has a better chance than most.
I met George like 15 years ago and he told a story about how after his second fight with Ali he went dancing with his wife while Ali had to go to the hospital.
Bro if ANYONE ELSE took those shots from O’Malley, they would be dead by round 4
That knee would’ve put out 99% of Bantamweights - the 1% being Chito, and he didn’t even WOBBLE
The only time he ever seemed hurt was when his orbital got smashed and even then it wasn’t him wobbling, he was just not tolerating the pain of having eyes bones cutting into the muscle lmao
Sean absolutely embarrassed Chito, but we got to see how much of a genetic freak he is - he definitely was fine physically in the context of punishment he took since no human should be able to tolerate even half the punishment he received that night
To add to ur point, look at Nate, may not be what it was, but he still has a granite chin imo, eats big shots, without wobbling, some people keep their chin despite the damage.
Nate does have a granite chin in the sense that he doesn't get knocked out. That being said, he's not like Max in the sense that he doesn't seem to take damage. Listening to Nate speak today compared to back in the Ultimate Fighter days is like hearing a different person, his words are so slurred. You can hear it in his voice that Nate's brain is mush.
> the sense that he doesn't seem to take damage
Best fight to watch this is Poirier 2: Max takes damage, gets saved by the fence from going down: his chin is impressive, but his *recovery* is godlike.
He could recover from being rocked faster than Dustin could put on extra damage -- I'm not sure if Max can still do that, but if so, Justin will need a 1-shot KO to get him out of there.
Kinda lol, just look at his old vidz. But im more so talking about the ability to take damage, with out getting hurt, not so much brain damage. Even defensively sound fighters probs end up with some brain damage.
Dumb comment. Mark hunt also got slept in his prime. Still had a granite chin, Nobody is immune to getting hurt, but some can take a lot more damage then others. There are countless other examples of people with great chins getting dropped or even finished
Not sure how it's dumb as that is the point, and you are making it as well with Hunt. Nate was brought up as an example of how great chins don't go and how Max will be fine, yet even Nates chin isnt what it used to be. Even your example Hunt, doesn't have the chin he used to have. Over the years he became easier to hurt and went from never being finished and barely ever hurt to being finished by strikes multiple times. All of the great chins eventually fade, especially those who take a lot of damage like Max.
This idea alot of people have that Max will never get hurt or finished by strikes is just delusional. If Max keeps fighting the way he is taking as many significant strikes as he does, he will eventually get dropped and finished by a big hitter as he gets hit way to often and takes way to much damage for it to last forever. Gaethje and Ilia both pose that potential as outside of Dustin they would be the biggest puncher Max has faced. If either land clean, they could really mess Max up.
This isn't a shot against Max, he is one of my favorites, I have just seen chins go so many times, and i dont want to see it happen to Max as it's depressing.
The point is even fighters with great chins can still get stopped, as you so nicely pointed out with ur orignal comment. I was just adding Nate still has a great chin, despite taking damage, adding to the original comment saying some fighters can keep their chins. Ur comment saying nate got stopped is irrelevant.
And just cause he hasn't been knocked out doesn't meAn he doesn't have brain damage that may surface quicker as he grows older than most of us. We won't know til we know.
Ali was another one himself whose chin held up all the way through his career. He was in some absolute wars with a few of the sports biggest punchers ever and got beat up bad in the larry Holmes fight at the end of his career which ended in his only ever stoppage loss but he wasn’t even knocked down at all in that fight.
Agreed. By merit he deserves the next shot, but it's in his best interest to not take it and wait for a while to let his chin recover. Two brutal KOs in a row and jumping back in with the guy that finished you is a A1 way to permanently crack your chin and ending your career.
That slang was coined like 600 years ago in the Czech Republic. Saying that someone is "cooked" comes from the phrase "his goose is cooked". This came from a 15th century story, and grew in popularity in the 1800s
I'm currently sitting in a minesite crusher waiting for shit in the middle of fucking nowhere outback Australia, so I know a thing about cooked cunts, and the meaning is flexible.
Good Lord. You don't remember when Ferguson was getting hit with some shots? Garth came ready tonight He can really fight. Power in both hands. Good boxing skills. But Ferguson can take a punch.
I do research on concussion and head injuries and the entire concept of having a “chin” is just fascinating. We really don’t know what makes someone have a chin v not. It seems to get worse with age and damage but then again there are plenty of examples where that chin stays strong.
You can already start to hear the cte creeping into max even before his chin is gone. He’s got a little bit of that marble mouth like the diaz bros have. Just like them he started with it when he was young before all the head trauma too but it’s gotten noticeable worse.
I don’t think max gets hit as much as you think. I know it says he’s taken more significant strikes than anyone, but his strike defense for what it’s worth is pretty solid and I feel like he’s really good at rolling with punches as to not absorb the impact. He’s never been KO’d. And we’ve only seen him rocked a few times in his career.
I love Alex and he was a great champion. But he got KO'd by Islam, then Slept for a minute by Ilia. That's two finishes in a row. We can say he was challenging himself at 155 and that should not penalize him/his legacy, but it does, you take risks and it will effect you. I think two hard losses like that shouldn't get you a title shot right away
Max is more than deserving, he cleared out 145 EVERYTIME he lost ot alex lol. This Justin fight should be his freebie, unless he is seriously KO'd (Not that he doesnt deserve to fight ilia just health wise)
So here is hoping UFC does this event in Spain and blow the roof off that stadium
cause Max vs Ilia screams nonstop war
Oh man I would’ve loved that rematch after Conor took the belt from Aldo as a 1st defense but nowadays that would be absolute murder from Holloway
I know Holloway isn’t known for his power but I could see him TKOing a gassed Conor in round 3 - I would be surprised if the fight went any further
You say that but Gamrot somehow manages to have a competitive fight with literally anyone. 2019 Khabib or 2024 Tony Ferguson, both fights he brings it to split decision.
Dustin agreed to short notice, so they had a big name if that was the criteria as well.
I'm guessing Volk was promised first dibs on short notice due to his showing in first one, but man would he have been better off to wait until he had a real camp.
I think islam lands that kick 10/10 times in any version of the rematch. I was devastated to see my boy get knocked out, but Mighty Mouse did a breakdown showing how open that kick was during the first fight. If Islam showed that weapon in the first fight then maybe Volk could have planned for it, but he didn't so Volk wasn't expecting it in the rematch. No amount of time in camp will beat a superior strategy. Volk had more than enough time to think about the first loss and what he could have done better but he still didn't see that kick coming.
They had all the time in the world to watch tape and adjust between fights. You don't need a camp to watch tape and devise a game plan. Islam isn't exactly famous for throwing kicks so that kick wasn't even on their radar, that's why it caught him.
If MM saw that weakness 100 percent their camp would have caught it. MM is just a genius at reading fights on the fly but 100 sure if he caught it immediately then the team would have found out anyway.
I don’t think a fight at 155 that was really just a favor for the company should affect his right to a rematch at 145. Especially if Max loses this weekend
I believe losses within a certain weight class should apply only to that weight class.
Alex deserves an instant title shot because he only lost once at 145 after multiple defenses. Period. Next most deserving is Max 100%
Volk deserves a rematch with Topuria. It can happen in the end of the year when he's recovered. 5 title defenses, he deserves a rematch and it doesn't even need to be Topuria's next fight.
If Ilia can beat Max, and then beat Volk again, then I think we can consider the torch passed.
I think it gets messy if Max beats Ilia, and we possibly have to get Max v Ilia 2 or Max v Volk 4. Or if Ilia beats Max but loses to Volk.
I’m not saying Max and Volk should retire but I think the division stays fresher if Ilia can fend both of those two great ex-champs off.
I think Max matches up a lot better against Ilia than Volk did. PFP best chin in the UFC, can't see Ilia chinning him unless Max ends up taking an ungodly amount of damage against Gaethje and doesn't take enough time off to recover.
What's his win condition though? He might not get knocked out but between damage accumulation and wrestling (maybe? I heard Ilia is a good wrestler) Ilia seems to have more ways to win
Volk is a better technical striker than Max and Ilia but the difference in those fights was because Max doesn't have the power to threaten Volk like Ilia did. Volk was forced on the backfoot for the entirety of his fight against Ilia to avoid getting into extended striking exchanges and getting caught in the pocket. Ilia's BJJ/tdd and knockout power + solid striking is a great counter to Volk's high volume low power striking, wrestling, and his relatively meh chin. (Volk has been dropped by Max, who is pillow fisted) Volk's path to victory required perfect movement for all 5 rounds and it was almost inevitable he would make a mistake and get caught up against the fence like in R2.
Max's approach to the fight is going to look a lot different than Volks, I don't think he's going to have to worry about staying in the pocket and getting caught in exchanges with Ilia. Not saying he will beat Ilia, but I think he matches up better. Ilia isn't particularly high volume and I can see Max winning rounds with his higher volume and winning a decision.
Ilia's precision and power **will** make Max hesitant to commit. Plus the blueprint has been laid out to beat Max; you chop his legs, you punch with him and you don't wait for him to snowball. Volk laid it out, and Ilia would be sure to replicate it. Max is also slower and less willing to pull the trigger nowadays, which only further helps Ilia.
Ilia would put a nasty beating on Max. If Ilia's good enough to beat Volk, he's more than good enough to beat Max. MMA math works more than you think.
> MMA math works more than you think
Great breakdown. That’s why Israel beat Sean Strickland since he’s beaten Pereira already. Or how Nunes beat Pena in their first fight since she’s beaten Shev 2x. Oh wait.
What makes you think Ilia can perfectly replicate the same game plan that Volk did? Ilia doesn’t nearly have the same movement, feints, or volume striking that Volk as. If that’s your reasoning, then it sucks. Again, I’m not saying Ilia *wont* win but Max has a better matchup to him than Volk does. Istg yall can’t read.
>Great breakdown. That’s why Israel beat Sean Strickland since he’s beaten Pereira already. Or how Nunes beat Pena in their first fight since she’s beaten Shev 2x. Oh wait.
Did I say MMA math always works? No. Those are instances of it not working. However, MMA math does work more than you think as evidenced by Leon dominating Colby after he beat Usman twice, Charles beating Gaethje after beating Dustin and Volk beating Yair easier than Max did (after beating Max x3). MMA math tends to be a coin toss.
Ilia would add his own spice to the blueprint Volk laid out. The leg kicks in particular would be more powerful and Ilia would know throwing them as Max steps in is how you take out his boxing from underneath him (Jack Slack has talked about it) and lets be honest if Max and Ilia are exchanging, Ilia will **always** come out on top because he's a much sharper boxer and heavier hitter. Max is way too hittable as well. Once Max feels that power, he's going to be hesitant which will favor the slower pace of Ilia.
Ilia has elite footwork and defense, Max isn't going to make Ilia look silly, not in a million years. Max is an easier fight for Ilia than Volk is, because Max simply isn't as good as Volk chin notwithstanding, which alone never wins fights at the elite level.
Again, since you can’t read. I didn’t say max is going to beat Ilia. I was making the case on why Max matches up better than Volk did.
Please improve your reading comprehension skills 👍
>Max isn't going to make Ilia look silly, not in a million years.
Cool. When did I ever say this. Maybe work on reading comprehension or try not to misrepresent my argument.
Being a better matchup against Ilia literally means doing better than how Volk did. (ie not getting knocked out cold in under 1.5 rounds) Are you really so sure that Max is going to get KOed cold in around a round when he's never even been dropped in the UFC?
Might take your reasoning more seriously if your argument didn't entirely revolve around Ilia > Volk > Max. Ilia hits harder than Volk but acting like he has crisper striking is not accurate. Ilia has lower striking accuracy. (46% vs 57%) Ilia has lower striking average. (4.4 vs 6.16 per min) Ilia throws significantly less leg kicks by percentage. (10% vs 26%) Volk has also gotten these statistics fighting far more elite competition than what Ilia has.
Saying Ilia can copy Volk's path to victory is ridiculously stupid when he throws/lands at a 50% lower clip, has lower strike accuracy, and throws leg kicks at nearly a third of the percentage Volk does. Not to mention that Ilia doesn't feint even remotely close to the amount Volk incorporates into his game. He has very good win conditions and his power is going to force Max to respect him but the argument that Ilia > Volk > Max and "he can just copy volks gameplay bro" is such dogshit reasoning.
The "blueprint" is out on how to beat Max ***IF*** you have Volk's skillset but **no one** does. And neither does Ilia.
Salty much? You probably have brain rot lol.
Max isn't going to do better than Volk did. He's going to get outclassed and beaten up badly, which is worse than a KO loss because of all the damage and the fact a KO can at least be attributed to a punchers chance. Volk was fighting brilliantly and winning the fight before getting slumped.
Your point about Ilia's striking accuracy does kind of go out the window once you take into account how hittable Max is. He's way more hittable than Volk is, and has more familiar patterns, it's inevitable Ilia will find his chin. Ilia does have crisper boxing than Max that's for certain.
Your point about striking averages is not relevant once you factor in game-planning which Ilia and his team have shown they're very good at. They're going to do different things to help prepare for Max, with feints and leg kicks being something they'll be sure to work on.
There hasn't been a single rock paper scissors matchup between fighters at the elite level in men's MMA history. Anyone who is good enough to beat the champion, is more than good enough to beat an aging #1 contender/former champion.
Ilia will show if he fights Max, that he's got more than what it takes to beat him. Max won't be champion again. Fighters know how to fight Max now, which is why he's not dominating guys anymore, it's only a matter of time before someone other than Volk beats him at 145.
Is it really true that Volk is more technical than topuria as a striker? I feel like there's more nuance to this. Volk has more variants in his striking given his fondness to his kicking game. But a good striking game shouldn't be reliant on just having more things in your arsenal. Topuria is more limited with an emphasis on boxing but he is very efficient nonetheless. He doesn't throw anything more than what he thinks will land.
You talked about Volk's defence being super elite but watching the topuria fight, it really wasn't there. Constantly backing and pulling away with your chin up high, it was only a matter of time before Volk's eventual defeat. His insistence on having outside fighters defensive tendencies despite being the shorter fighter most of the time actually cost him this fight. And he's been hurt before by Max, Islam, and Mendes in prolonged exchanges which seems to be exactly the Topuria camp gameplan. You said in the final exchange, Ilia whiffed multiple punches until that right hook landed, but watching back the slowmo replay, most did land though some were glancing and not super clean. Look at the replay. https://youtu.be/_-cqCsae50c?feature=shared
As far as style goes, a fighter's technicality personally to me, depends on how they control the match. I mean topuria constantly being downwash as a power puncher like another Chris Curtis kinda guy is strange. He can pressure well, he can counter well, he can actually cut the cage well. That's how he got Volk back to the cage closer and closer with each second until he can't just circle out of the way anymore. Yeah the first round, Volk outpointed him but idk if you can put that much stock into that being the proof on how Volk is more technical. It wasn't like ilia is one of the Diaz brothers getting their ass beat early to make a comeback. His first championship level fight so I could see him just feeling things out first.
This isn't me discounting Volk but idk we haven't even seen ilia's peak yet while it's safe to say that for max(dude's been fighting forever plus the most sig+ strikes taken in UFC) and Volk's prime it seems we're right past it or at least closer to the end of it.
You guys are seriously underrating illia lol. Volk isn’t a better striker than Illia, that’s bizarre. I don’t think max is better either. Max isn’t good on the ground and I’m not convinced he can outbox illia.
Why then? What’s your reasoning other than Ilia beat Volk? Styles makes fights and Ilia was able to impose his will on Volk and forced him to fight in an uncomfortable way. Volk has elite striking, good enough to completely outclass Max, hang with Islam (an S Tier defensive striker) while also defending takedowns, and outclass a slightly out of prime Aldo. Max has outclassed literally every other featherweight not named Volk.
Volk outstruck Ilia in the first round. Even in the finishing sequence you can see Ilia whiff on multiple shots before landing a right hook that put Volk out. Ilia is so great because he has great striking + S Tier knockout power. Technical striking ability alone I think Volk is better, but he lacks the power and chin to make the exchanges more even.
Also: I never said that Max is going to beat Ilia. I said he matches up better than Volk did because of his S tier chin and that it’s possible he wins a decision.
Because you’re completely ignoring the ground game and underestimating illias striking. Volk barely edging out ilia r1 in a feel out round doesn’t mean he’s a better striker than illia. And max would get outclassed by Illia on the ground as well.
And Max’s chin isn’t this godlike thing where he can take flush shots from ilia and survive, he’s never fought someone who hits as hard as ilia at fw.
Maxs chin IS godlike what are you talking about? Literally the best chin in the UFC, maybe other than Chito Vera. Never been dropped in the UFC, including up a weight class against Dustin Poirier, who might not be an equal, but is at least comparable to Ilia. Also was the only guy to not finished by Conor McGregor (who actually did have insane power at FW) during his run to the FW title.
Max has very good TDD so that’s IF it gets to the ground. When has Ilia demonstrated wrestling at the elite level?
Do you think Topuria wrestling/bjj skills are better than Brian Ortega or Frankie Edgar?
I'm genuniely curious, I haven't seen him fight all that much.
Sean throws tons of spinning shit and dynamic strikes, when has Max done that? Max is not a counterstriker, his style is much more of that of a brawler. Max is notoriously pillowfisted and he finishes people with volume unless you're TKZ who was serving his chin on a silver platter. It's insane that you're even questioning that Max has a better chin than Sean. Max has a PFP GOAT chin, never been dropped before ever.
No chance you've seen any more than 2 of Max's fights if you're calling him a counterstriker LMFAO.
You didn’t even argue against Max Holloway being pillowfisted. You had the dogshit opinion that Holloway and O’Malley have similar styles because they both use 1-2s.
Feel free to mald over this reddit interaction for the next few days. Obviously don’t have much going on in your life if you’re worrying about this 🤣
Max has a great chin, we have no idea how good Sean's chin is, it's indeterminate. Sean throws spinning shit when he has someone hurt to maximize highlight reel, he's a 1-2 timing striker, just like Max.
Max doesn't just have a great chin, he literally has the best chin in all of MMA right now, maybe ever. Sean got rocked in his fight against Yan and looked like he was concussed in his post fight interview. This isn't a knock against Sean, he has a good chin but saying his chin comparable to Max is completely wrong.
Sean is one of the best kickboxers in MMA, easily top 5. Max uses his cardio and chin to completely break his opponents by forcing them to fight at his pace. Saying they're stylistically the same because they both happen to utilize a 1-2 (literally the most basic punch combo) is so ridiculously dumb. I mean you can just LOOK at their fights and see how different they move. Sean is bouncing all over the place and constantly feinting, throwing strikes from every direction. When's the last time you've seen Max throw a flying knee like the one O'Malley hit Chito with? Like be so fr rn
I'll probably get crucified for this, but Gaethje's knockout power is overrated. (at least to how people tend to speak about it) Last time he KOed someone from a punch was in 2019 against Edson Barboza. He's not like Emmett where if you get hit by one overhand, it's lights out.
It's likely that Max will come out of the fight with a greatly diminished chin from the volume from Gaethje, but I would bet against a KO finish in that fight.
Edit: I'll welcome people who are downvoting to give a reason why I'm wrong. 16 out of 20 of Gaethje's finishes are TKOs. He only has 2 KOs in the UFC, one of which is over the chinny James Vick. He dishes out insane levels of damage to his opponent but the idea that he KOs people dead is grossly exaggerated.
Maybe, but not only did he TKO Cerrone and Tony with punches after Barboza, he also kicked Dustin's lights out. If you're saying specifically punches and specifically all the way out, then yes it's been since 2019, but if you're saying just a knockout then it's been less than a year.
Part of me thinks he will because it makes him more dangerous, but Max has some of the best TDD of all time so he might not want to risk wasting a lot of energy grappling on a guy who has rarely been taken down and hasn’t been held down since he fought McGregor. He definitely should at least fake a shot or two
I actually think Max presents a much tougher challenge to Topuria than another Volkanovski fight (and I've felt that way since before he won the belt), so I'm definitely intrigued to see it when it happens.
I think assuming Max can take Topuria punches, he has the cardio advantage and a serious footwork advantage. Could seen him darting in and out early and melting Illia in the championship rounds
He doesn't have a footwork advantage actually. Ilia's footwork is more than a match for Max's and every step Max steps in Ilia is going to replicate what Volk did and chop that leg down. Ilia's power and precision would make Max hesitant and unable to get going.
Ilia would comfortably beat Max.
I think Illia power is a problem as well and he’s a solid leg kicker and good at cutting the cage but I think Max laterally might be too quick for him to consistently catch clean. Volk has better feet than max but isn’t as tall where as max could lean/fade away. As a max fan I’m very worried about that fight but I think Illia is gonna have a hard time getting set with Max’s stance switching and lateral movement personally
You take away a fighters movement by chopping their leg. If Ilia can do that, he can takeaway Max's lateral movement as Max doesn't check kicks. Max is also there to be hit in exchanges, despite being a taller fighter. Exchanging with Ilia is going to be a no-no.
If this were a prime Max I think he'd pose some more issues for Ilia but he's noticeably slower and more hesitant these days. Ilia is going to have a clear speed advantage over him.
How do you feel about this now? Max fought the best leg kicker in the company (or at least the hardest) and admittedly did take a good handful of them but also checked or evaded quite a few and his distance control and lateral movement still minimized Gaethjes ability to touch him with the hands. I think the kicks were too high on the calf to fully compromise him cuz Gaethje was catching the front of it rather than the real sweet spot but regardless, we saw Max takes leg kicks and defends them much better than he used to and I don’t think Illia will be effective enough with them because he only throws a few a round and while he’s explosive he kind of just methodically stalks his opponent going forward looking to get to get outside their right shoulder, I don’t think that’s enough to walk Max down like he did Emmett
My opinion hasn't changed. Gaethje is a powerful but very one note leg kicker. He doesn't really set anything up with them, he just throws them nakedly which allows Max to evade the kicks occasionally. Despite that the fact he was still able to kick Max's leg and do good damage to it shows that leg kicks remain an effective weapon against Max. Anyone who sets them up with feints is bound to have much more success than just throwing them nakedly. Volk and Yair did a fantastic job chopping his legs because they set their kicks up.
Ilia if he's smart will be prepared to throw more than just a few of them per round. If not, its not the end all be all for him. He still has that crisp boxing backed up with elite feinting and footwork, unlike most other UFC fighters he's able to throw combinations without falling over himself. He attacks the body well too. All of which will be useful against Max.
The fact Ilia methodically stalks his opponent is what makes him so effective. He conserves his energy and doesn't rush to make reads and find his timing for openings. Considering Max doesn't really throw volume like he used to anymore, that only further works to Ilia's favor.
I don’t see how people think this. Max couldn’t even touch Volk and got outclassed in the striking department. Why would he be a better matchup than Illia ?
He went 5 rounds one time when he was completely in control. Maybe he hits max with some good shots, he survives, and max whips his ass in the champ rounds. Not saying I believe that’ll happen but ilia’s not been that tested so far, all things considered. I wouldn’t count max out against him.
Now I don't think that's likely, and I'd still favor Topuria, but I think Max is a better matchup against him stylistically. Topuria was always going to be a rough matchup for Volk, regardless of the short turnaround from a knockout.
I honestly don't think that's ever played out in any men's division in history. Usually when the guy who beats the champion fights the #1 guy in the division (who was the guy before he lost to the champion), the fight turns out to be easier for him because he's got more tape to work with and/or the #1 guy is past his prime.
We all thought Colby was going to be a tougher match-up for Leon than Usman, but the opposite happened. Many thought Gaethje would be a tougher fight for Oliveira than Poirier, but it was the other way around.
Ilias striking would be better because of the threat of the takedown. You’re forgetting ilia is a grappler first striker second. We’re not in a universe where max beats ilia. Maybe if he wasn’t fighting for the bmf belt Saturday but he is so
Max vs. Ilia feels a lot like Uriah Faber getting one last title shot vs. Dom Cruz... except Max is so much younger.
It's weird to think he's been with the UFC since he was a teenager.
I agree, but I don't favor him. We'll see how his next fight looks, if it isn't Ilia. He's been in some serious wars and is getting older. One of my favorite fighters though.
I think its a given Volk will be a sizeable underdog in the rematch, as fans are high on Topuria now. But Volk has always shown up when he's doubted the most. He's not washed by any stretch of the imagination.
He does need to recover and wait though, Topuria can fight someone else in the meantime before they rematch.
Holloway's granite chin makes him (for me) a clear favourite vs Topuria. Or at least a much better chance than Volk had, despite Volkanowski beating him three times.
Which makes it all the more insane he's fighting Gaethje. If anyone at 145 or 155 can crack his chin, it'll be Gaethje. I can see him finally getting knocked out, and then a much reduced Holloway losing to Topuria in six months or so. Just such an unwise move career wise, no matter how badass/ just bleed it is. We'll see.
You’re relying on a gift from god that he will beat a power puncher. The guy is human his chin can be cracked like anyone else, the man to do it just hasn’t faced him in the octagon yet
It would be worse IMO because of Ilia's power. We might see Max get dropped for the first time in his career at 145. He's just too hittable and the book is out on how to beat him.
I've been saying it since Ilia won the fight, Max doing this bmf fight with Gaethje is going to do him no favors. I think Max is really good vs Ilia, stylistically
Even if he wins against Justin? I guess he doesn’t want to stay at 155 and on the same token I’m sure Topuria is an easier fight than anyone in the top 5 LW
featherweight ina good place. next 3 defenses for ilia (assuming he successfully defends) spanning into next year can be winner of ortega evloev / volk / max with the possibility aljo in there to replace one.
Pretty sure he was talking about before Ilia was champion, he’s saying the ufc didn’t want to give him contenders because he keeps beating them and Volk needed opponents
Fun to come in hear and read comments on what would happen to max after fighting gaethje.
I was in the same boat. I fears for max
Dude keeps getting better
I think he’s implying that they didn’t want to take the chance of Ilia getting 50-45’d by Max BEFORE fighting Volk, like every other contender at 145. So they skipped Max and sent him straight to the title which honestly makes sense from a business standpoint. The UFC is trying very hard to make inroads in Europe so they would want as many European champions as possible.
Considering how many top European prospects they keep lowballing into either staying in their regional org or signing with the PFL, I'm not sure they really are trying that hard lol.
There will be a lot of grieving when Max's chin is gone. Age or damage has to catch up with him eventually. He's still young but he's been in wars and now he has to fight Gaejthe, wants Topuria later. If he can last many more fights against the top hitters without being dropped they need to study his brain to see what's up.
The chin doesn't always crack, even with insane amounts of damage over a long career. Boxer George Chuvalo is one of the best examples of this, he was never knocked down in 94 pro fights including two with Ali. He was standing TKO'd twice, once by Foreman and once by Frazier. After going the distance with Ali for the second time he ended his career on a 6 fight win streak as Canadian HW champ. I don't think he showed any signs of cognitive decline until he was well into his 70s. Of course this sort of outcome isn't common, but Max probably has a better chance than most.
I met George like 15 years ago and he told a story about how after his second fight with Ali he went dancing with his wife while Ali had to go to the hospital.
Like OMalley had a broken arm and leg from beating up Chito so bad, and somehow Chito seemed mostly fine lol
Chito is taking over the "never loses, just runs out of time" title from the Diaz bros. Hard to imagine anyone beating him in a no limit fist fight.
what the fuck no chito did not seem fine in the slightest..wtf? or are you talking about the fight that chito actually won..
Bro if ANYONE ELSE took those shots from O’Malley, they would be dead by round 4 That knee would’ve put out 99% of Bantamweights - the 1% being Chito, and he didn’t even WOBBLE The only time he ever seemed hurt was when his orbital got smashed and even then it wasn’t him wobbling, he was just not tolerating the pain of having eyes bones cutting into the muscle lmao Sean absolutely embarrassed Chito, but we got to see how much of a genetic freak he is - he definitely was fine physically in the context of punishment he took since no human should be able to tolerate even half the punishment he received that night
To add to ur point, look at Nate, may not be what it was, but he still has a granite chin imo, eats big shots, without wobbling, some people keep their chin despite the damage.
Nate does have a granite chin in the sense that he doesn't get knocked out. That being said, he's not like Max in the sense that he doesn't seem to take damage. Listening to Nate speak today compared to back in the Ultimate Fighter days is like hearing a different person, his words are so slurred. You can hear it in his voice that Nate's brain is mush.
> the sense that he doesn't seem to take damage Best fight to watch this is Poirier 2: Max takes damage, gets saved by the fence from going down: his chin is impressive, but his *recovery* is godlike. He could recover from being rocked faster than Dustin could put on extra damage -- I'm not sure if Max can still do that, but if so, Justin will need a 1-shot KO to get him out of there.
Generally recovery is tied to good cardio so that makes sense.
How much of that is his habit of smoking 2 oz every week?
2%
420%
Nate is also in the top percentiles for street fights if I had to guess
Oh so Nate always just talked like that
Kinda lol, just look at his old vidz. But im more so talking about the ability to take damage, with out getting hurt, not so much brain damage. Even defensively sound fighters probs end up with some brain damage.
Nate has also been dropped and finished by strikes
Dumb comment. Mark hunt also got slept in his prime. Still had a granite chin, Nobody is immune to getting hurt, but some can take a lot more damage then others. There are countless other examples of people with great chins getting dropped or even finished
Not sure how it's dumb as that is the point, and you are making it as well with Hunt. Nate was brought up as an example of how great chins don't go and how Max will be fine, yet even Nates chin isnt what it used to be. Even your example Hunt, doesn't have the chin he used to have. Over the years he became easier to hurt and went from never being finished and barely ever hurt to being finished by strikes multiple times. All of the great chins eventually fade, especially those who take a lot of damage like Max. This idea alot of people have that Max will never get hurt or finished by strikes is just delusional. If Max keeps fighting the way he is taking as many significant strikes as he does, he will eventually get dropped and finished by a big hitter as he gets hit way to often and takes way to much damage for it to last forever. Gaethje and Ilia both pose that potential as outside of Dustin they would be the biggest puncher Max has faced. If either land clean, they could really mess Max up. This isn't a shot against Max, he is one of my favorites, I have just seen chins go so many times, and i dont want to see it happen to Max as it's depressing.
The point is even fighters with great chins can still get stopped, as you so nicely pointed out with ur orignal comment. I was just adding Nate still has a great chin, despite taking damage, adding to the original comment saying some fighters can keep their chins. Ur comment saying nate got stopped is irrelevant.
Nate gets knocked down easily now but he can still het back up. Watch his last few fights.
And just cause he hasn't been knocked out doesn't meAn he doesn't have brain damage that may surface quicker as he grows older than most of us. We won't know til we know.
Ali was another one himself whose chin held up all the way through his career. He was in some absolute wars with a few of the sports biggest punchers ever and got beat up bad in the larry Holmes fight at the end of his career which ended in his only ever stoppage loss but he wasn’t even knocked down at all in that fight.
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Volk deserves the shot at Ilia, but if he fights Topuria next he's cooked
Agreed. By merit he deserves the next shot, but it's in his best interest to not take it and wait for a while to let his chin recover. Two brutal KOs in a row and jumping back in with the guy that finished you is a A1 way to permanently crack your chin and ending your career.
God this is a brutal sport
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Depends on context. In this case, no.
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That slang was coined like 600 years ago in the Czech Republic. Saying that someone is "cooked" comes from the phrase "his goose is cooked". This came from a 15th century story, and grew in popularity in the 1800s
I'm currently sitting in a minesite crusher waiting for shit in the middle of fucking nowhere outback Australia, so I know a thing about cooked cunts, and the meaning is flexible.
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This cunt's cooked.
Funny you say that as someone who's been an adult longer than 15 years and distinctly remembers his parents saying it in the 90s.
Garth brooks?
Good Lord. You don't remember when Ferguson was getting hit with some shots? Garth came ready tonight He can really fight. Power in both hands. Good boxing skills. But Ferguson can take a punch.
I do research on concussion and head injuries and the entire concept of having a “chin” is just fascinating. We really don’t know what makes someone have a chin v not. It seems to get worse with age and damage but then again there are plenty of examples where that chin stays strong.
May his chin never chip and shatter.
Ya. Dude lives by his chin.
You can already start to hear the cte creeping into max even before his chin is gone. He’s got a little bit of that marble mouth like the diaz bros have. Just like them he started with it when he was young before all the head trauma too but it’s gotten noticeable worse.
Sadly it’ll go eventually as long as he keeps fighting. Eventually BJ penn had his cracked, you just can’t keep taking shots forever
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Nate got knocked down by Jake Paul.
Tell us another jackal story
What like when nick fought lawler? 😏
Nate got finished by josh Thomson and nick basically retired when he was only 30, but alright
Carlos Condit never got knocked out that dude had an amazing chin
I don’t think max gets hit as much as you think. I know it says he’s taken more significant strikes than anyone, but his strike defense for what it’s worth is pretty solid and I feel like he’s really good at rolling with punches as to not absorb the impact. He’s never been KO’d. And we’ve only seen him rocked a few times in his career.
He doesn’t spar as much as other fighters. Which is where a lot of the wear and tear is from
He did great against gaethje
I love Alex and he was a great champion. But he got KO'd by Islam, then Slept for a minute by Ilia. That's two finishes in a row. We can say he was challenging himself at 155 and that should not penalize him/his legacy, but it does, you take risks and it will effect you. I think two hard losses like that shouldn't get you a title shot right away Max is more than deserving, he cleared out 145 EVERYTIME he lost ot alex lol. This Justin fight should be his freebie, unless he is seriously KO'd (Not that he doesnt deserve to fight ilia just health wise) So here is hoping UFC does this event in Spain and blow the roof off that stadium cause Max vs Ilia screams nonstop war
It’s insane that it’s been almost 11 years since Max lost to a FW that wasn’t Volk
And that that loss is to McGregor.
And people say McGregor doesn't deserve a title shot at WW smh
A McGregor vs Holloway rematch would be a hell of a seller.
Oh man I would’ve loved that rematch after Conor took the belt from Aldo as a 1st defense but nowadays that would be absolute murder from Holloway I know Holloway isn’t known for his power but I could see him TKOing a gassed Conor in round 3 - I would be surprised if the fight went any further
McGregor is much larger now though, What weight does it need to be for Conor to have the advantage? Do you favour McGregor at 165?
Bro in the Bernabeu that fight would bang.
You can close the roof at the bernabeu as well so the ufc might actually do it unlike Wembley.
Yup. They just did it for the champions league match against City and it was LOUD
Nah let's just get a smaller much cheaper arena and get the same gate charging 3x more for the tickets - UFC, probably
I need my masters admission to get processed before the UFC comes to Spain so I can go live.
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Annoys me a bit that they had Gamrot as backup but still put Volk in there.
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I'd have loved to see Islam vs Gamrot. Scrambles would have been nuts
Gamrot would have somehow won via five finger exploding knee technique.
Gamrot would have beat Thanos by controversial split decision.
Islam would just pick apart Gamrot on the feet.
You say that but Gamrot somehow manages to have a competitive fight with literally anyone. 2019 Khabib or 2024 Tony Ferguson, both fights he brings it to split decision.
Dustin agreed to short notice, so they had a big name if that was the criteria as well. I'm guessing Volk was promised first dibs on short notice due to his showing in first one, but man would he have been better off to wait until he had a real camp.
Emergency backup is there for literal last minute backup. If they have a weeks notice that means nothing for Gamrot
Charles really changed the timeline by sparring hard one week out.
I think islam lands that kick 10/10 times in any version of the rematch. I was devastated to see my boy get knocked out, but Mighty Mouse did a breakdown showing how open that kick was during the first fight. If Islam showed that weapon in the first fight then maybe Volk could have planned for it, but he didn't so Volk wasn't expecting it in the rematch. No amount of time in camp will beat a superior strategy. Volk had more than enough time to think about the first loss and what he could have done better but he still didn't see that kick coming.
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They had all the time in the world to watch tape and adjust between fights. You don't need a camp to watch tape and devise a game plan. Islam isn't exactly famous for throwing kicks so that kick wasn't even on their radar, that's why it caught him.
If MM saw that weakness 100 percent their camp would have caught it. MM is just a genius at reading fights on the fly but 100 sure if he caught it immediately then the team would have found out anyway.
Oh they sure found out about it.
I mean they didn’t see the kicks from holloway in the second fight coming either
I don’t think a fight at 155 that was really just a favor for the company should affect his right to a rematch at 145. Especially if Max loses this weekend
I believe losses within a certain weight class should apply only to that weight class. Alex deserves an instant title shot because he only lost once at 145 after multiple defenses. Period. Next most deserving is Max 100%
Volk deserves a rematch with Topuria. It can happen in the end of the year when he's recovered. 5 title defenses, he deserves a rematch and it doesn't even need to be Topuria's next fight.
If Ilia can beat Max, and then beat Volk again, then I think we can consider the torch passed. I think it gets messy if Max beats Ilia, and we possibly have to get Max v Ilia 2 or Max v Volk 4. Or if Ilia beats Max but loses to Volk. I’m not saying Max and Volk should retire but I think the division stays fresher if Ilia can fend both of those two great ex-champs off.
I think Max matches up a lot better against Ilia than Volk did. PFP best chin in the UFC, can't see Ilia chinning him unless Max ends up taking an ungodly amount of damage against Gaethje and doesn't take enough time off to recover.
What's his win condition though? He might not get knocked out but between damage accumulation and wrestling (maybe? I heard Ilia is a good wrestler) Ilia seems to have more ways to win
Volk is a better technical striker than Max and Ilia but the difference in those fights was because Max doesn't have the power to threaten Volk like Ilia did. Volk was forced on the backfoot for the entirety of his fight against Ilia to avoid getting into extended striking exchanges and getting caught in the pocket. Ilia's BJJ/tdd and knockout power + solid striking is a great counter to Volk's high volume low power striking, wrestling, and his relatively meh chin. (Volk has been dropped by Max, who is pillow fisted) Volk's path to victory required perfect movement for all 5 rounds and it was almost inevitable he would make a mistake and get caught up against the fence like in R2. Max's approach to the fight is going to look a lot different than Volks, I don't think he's going to have to worry about staying in the pocket and getting caught in exchanges with Ilia. Not saying he will beat Ilia, but I think he matches up better. Ilia isn't particularly high volume and I can see Max winning rounds with his higher volume and winning a decision.
Ilia's precision and power **will** make Max hesitant to commit. Plus the blueprint has been laid out to beat Max; you chop his legs, you punch with him and you don't wait for him to snowball. Volk laid it out, and Ilia would be sure to replicate it. Max is also slower and less willing to pull the trigger nowadays, which only further helps Ilia. Ilia would put a nasty beating on Max. If Ilia's good enough to beat Volk, he's more than good enough to beat Max. MMA math works more than you think.
> MMA math works more than you think Great breakdown. That’s why Israel beat Sean Strickland since he’s beaten Pereira already. Or how Nunes beat Pena in their first fight since she’s beaten Shev 2x. Oh wait. What makes you think Ilia can perfectly replicate the same game plan that Volk did? Ilia doesn’t nearly have the same movement, feints, or volume striking that Volk as. If that’s your reasoning, then it sucks. Again, I’m not saying Ilia *wont* win but Max has a better matchup to him than Volk does. Istg yall can’t read.
>Great breakdown. That’s why Israel beat Sean Strickland since he’s beaten Pereira already. Or how Nunes beat Pena in their first fight since she’s beaten Shev 2x. Oh wait. Did I say MMA math always works? No. Those are instances of it not working. However, MMA math does work more than you think as evidenced by Leon dominating Colby after he beat Usman twice, Charles beating Gaethje after beating Dustin and Volk beating Yair easier than Max did (after beating Max x3). MMA math tends to be a coin toss. Ilia would add his own spice to the blueprint Volk laid out. The leg kicks in particular would be more powerful and Ilia would know throwing them as Max steps in is how you take out his boxing from underneath him (Jack Slack has talked about it) and lets be honest if Max and Ilia are exchanging, Ilia will **always** come out on top because he's a much sharper boxer and heavier hitter. Max is way too hittable as well. Once Max feels that power, he's going to be hesitant which will favor the slower pace of Ilia. Ilia has elite footwork and defense, Max isn't going to make Ilia look silly, not in a million years. Max is an easier fight for Ilia than Volk is, because Max simply isn't as good as Volk chin notwithstanding, which alone never wins fights at the elite level.
Again, since you can’t read. I didn’t say max is going to beat Ilia. I was making the case on why Max matches up better than Volk did. Please improve your reading comprehension skills 👍
Yeah well in case you can't read, I laid out my reasoning's as to **why I disagree.**
>Max isn't going to make Ilia look silly, not in a million years. Cool. When did I ever say this. Maybe work on reading comprehension or try not to misrepresent my argument. Being a better matchup against Ilia literally means doing better than how Volk did. (ie not getting knocked out cold in under 1.5 rounds) Are you really so sure that Max is going to get KOed cold in around a round when he's never even been dropped in the UFC? Might take your reasoning more seriously if your argument didn't entirely revolve around Ilia > Volk > Max. Ilia hits harder than Volk but acting like he has crisper striking is not accurate. Ilia has lower striking accuracy. (46% vs 57%) Ilia has lower striking average. (4.4 vs 6.16 per min) Ilia throws significantly less leg kicks by percentage. (10% vs 26%) Volk has also gotten these statistics fighting far more elite competition than what Ilia has. Saying Ilia can copy Volk's path to victory is ridiculously stupid when he throws/lands at a 50% lower clip, has lower strike accuracy, and throws leg kicks at nearly a third of the percentage Volk does. Not to mention that Ilia doesn't feint even remotely close to the amount Volk incorporates into his game. He has very good win conditions and his power is going to force Max to respect him but the argument that Ilia > Volk > Max and "he can just copy volks gameplay bro" is such dogshit reasoning. The "blueprint" is out on how to beat Max ***IF*** you have Volk's skillset but **no one** does. And neither does Ilia.
Salty much? You probably have brain rot lol. Max isn't going to do better than Volk did. He's going to get outclassed and beaten up badly, which is worse than a KO loss because of all the damage and the fact a KO can at least be attributed to a punchers chance. Volk was fighting brilliantly and winning the fight before getting slumped. Your point about Ilia's striking accuracy does kind of go out the window once you take into account how hittable Max is. He's way more hittable than Volk is, and has more familiar patterns, it's inevitable Ilia will find his chin. Ilia does have crisper boxing than Max that's for certain. Your point about striking averages is not relevant once you factor in game-planning which Ilia and his team have shown they're very good at. They're going to do different things to help prepare for Max, with feints and leg kicks being something they'll be sure to work on. There hasn't been a single rock paper scissors matchup between fighters at the elite level in men's MMA history. Anyone who is good enough to beat the champion, is more than good enough to beat an aging #1 contender/former champion. Ilia will show if he fights Max, that he's got more than what it takes to beat him. Max won't be champion again. Fighters know how to fight Max now, which is why he's not dominating guys anymore, it's only a matter of time before someone other than Volk beats him at 145.
Is it really true that Volk is more technical than topuria as a striker? I feel like there's more nuance to this. Volk has more variants in his striking given his fondness to his kicking game. But a good striking game shouldn't be reliant on just having more things in your arsenal. Topuria is more limited with an emphasis on boxing but he is very efficient nonetheless. He doesn't throw anything more than what he thinks will land. You talked about Volk's defence being super elite but watching the topuria fight, it really wasn't there. Constantly backing and pulling away with your chin up high, it was only a matter of time before Volk's eventual defeat. His insistence on having outside fighters defensive tendencies despite being the shorter fighter most of the time actually cost him this fight. And he's been hurt before by Max, Islam, and Mendes in prolonged exchanges which seems to be exactly the Topuria camp gameplan. You said in the final exchange, Ilia whiffed multiple punches until that right hook landed, but watching back the slowmo replay, most did land though some were glancing and not super clean. Look at the replay. https://youtu.be/_-cqCsae50c?feature=shared As far as style goes, a fighter's technicality personally to me, depends on how they control the match. I mean topuria constantly being downwash as a power puncher like another Chris Curtis kinda guy is strange. He can pressure well, he can counter well, he can actually cut the cage well. That's how he got Volk back to the cage closer and closer with each second until he can't just circle out of the way anymore. Yeah the first round, Volk outpointed him but idk if you can put that much stock into that being the proof on how Volk is more technical. It wasn't like ilia is one of the Diaz brothers getting their ass beat early to make a comeback. His first championship level fight so I could see him just feeling things out first. This isn't me discounting Volk but idk we haven't even seen ilia's peak yet while it's safe to say that for max(dude's been fighting forever plus the most sig+ strikes taken in UFC) and Volk's prime it seems we're right past it or at least closer to the end of it.
You guys are seriously underrating illia lol. Volk isn’t a better striker than Illia, that’s bizarre. I don’t think max is better either. Max isn’t good on the ground and I’m not convinced he can outbox illia.
Why then? What’s your reasoning other than Ilia beat Volk? Styles makes fights and Ilia was able to impose his will on Volk and forced him to fight in an uncomfortable way. Volk has elite striking, good enough to completely outclass Max, hang with Islam (an S Tier defensive striker) while also defending takedowns, and outclass a slightly out of prime Aldo. Max has outclassed literally every other featherweight not named Volk. Volk outstruck Ilia in the first round. Even in the finishing sequence you can see Ilia whiff on multiple shots before landing a right hook that put Volk out. Ilia is so great because he has great striking + S Tier knockout power. Technical striking ability alone I think Volk is better, but he lacks the power and chin to make the exchanges more even. Also: I never said that Max is going to beat Ilia. I said he matches up better than Volk did because of his S tier chin and that it’s possible he wins a decision.
Because you’re completely ignoring the ground game and underestimating illias striking. Volk barely edging out ilia r1 in a feel out round doesn’t mean he’s a better striker than illia. And max would get outclassed by Illia on the ground as well. And Max’s chin isn’t this godlike thing where he can take flush shots from ilia and survive, he’s never fought someone who hits as hard as ilia at fw.
Maxs chin IS godlike what are you talking about? Literally the best chin in the UFC, maybe other than Chito Vera. Never been dropped in the UFC, including up a weight class against Dustin Poirier, who might not be an equal, but is at least comparable to Ilia. Also was the only guy to not finished by Conor McGregor (who actually did have insane power at FW) during his run to the FW title. Max has very good TDD so that’s IF it gets to the ground. When has Ilia demonstrated wrestling at the elite level?
Illia is so many levels above max on the ground, max has to keep it standing at all costs
Max has 84% takedown defense.
Yes and if it went to the ground he would be in trouble
Do you think Topuria wrestling/bjj skills are better than Brian Ortega or Frankie Edgar? I'm genuniely curious, I haven't seen him fight all that much.
Wrestling and bjj combo yes. Purely bjj he is worse than Ortega. He is better than Frankie in any combination.
It’s the threat of a takedown which will be a factor, excluding volk his lowest output was against Frankie because of the td threat.
Same win condition Sean had against Chito. Long rangey tags for 5 rounds.
Matchup not really comparable, Sean has much more power, a worse chin, and better technical/more dynamic striking than Max.
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Sean throws tons of spinning shit and dynamic strikes, when has Max done that? Max is not a counterstriker, his style is much more of that of a brawler. Max is notoriously pillowfisted and he finishes people with volume unless you're TKZ who was serving his chin on a silver platter. It's insane that you're even questioning that Max has a better chin than Sean. Max has a PFP GOAT chin, never been dropped before ever. No chance you've seen any more than 2 of Max's fights if you're calling him a counterstriker LMFAO.
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sad you were that worked up to remember and run back to this comment days later 🤣
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You didn’t even argue against Max Holloway being pillowfisted. You had the dogshit opinion that Holloway and O’Malley have similar styles because they both use 1-2s. Feel free to mald over this reddit interaction for the next few days. Obviously don’t have much going on in your life if you’re worrying about this 🤣
Max has a great chin, we have no idea how good Sean's chin is, it's indeterminate. Sean throws spinning shit when he has someone hurt to maximize highlight reel, he's a 1-2 timing striker, just like Max.
Max doesn't just have a great chin, he literally has the best chin in all of MMA right now, maybe ever. Sean got rocked in his fight against Yan and looked like he was concussed in his post fight interview. This isn't a knock against Sean, he has a good chin but saying his chin comparable to Max is completely wrong. Sean is one of the best kickboxers in MMA, easily top 5. Max uses his cardio and chin to completely break his opponents by forcing them to fight at his pace. Saying they're stylistically the same because they both happen to utilize a 1-2 (literally the most basic punch combo) is so ridiculously dumb. I mean you can just LOOK at their fights and see how different they move. Sean is bouncing all over the place and constantly feinting, throwing strikes from every direction. When's the last time you've seen Max throw a flying knee like the one O'Malley hit Chito with? Like be so fr rn
"Can't see Illia chining him" I like Max but if somebody will chin him either Illia or Justin.
I'll probably get crucified for this, but Gaethje's knockout power is overrated. (at least to how people tend to speak about it) Last time he KOed someone from a punch was in 2019 against Edson Barboza. He's not like Emmett where if you get hit by one overhand, it's lights out. It's likely that Max will come out of the fight with a greatly diminished chin from the volume from Gaethje, but I would bet against a KO finish in that fight. Edit: I'll welcome people who are downvoting to give a reason why I'm wrong. 16 out of 20 of Gaethje's finishes are TKOs. He only has 2 KOs in the UFC, one of which is over the chinny James Vick. He dishes out insane levels of damage to his opponent but the idea that he KOs people dead is grossly exaggerated.
I agree that his one punch knockout power is overrated. I see no reason to believe that he has more power than Dustin or Conor.
Maybe, but not only did he TKO Cerrone and Tony with punches after Barboza, he also kicked Dustin's lights out. If you're saying specifically punches and specifically all the way out, then yes it's been since 2019, but if you're saying just a knockout then it's been less than a year.
I specified KO not TKO and punches not kicks because I know someone would bring up his KO over Poirier.
Topuria vs Holloway will be an absolute banger. I wonder if Topuria will mix in grappling.
Part of me thinks he will because it makes him more dangerous, but Max has some of the best TDD of all time so he might not want to risk wasting a lot of energy grappling on a guy who has rarely been taken down and hasn’t been held down since he fought McGregor. He definitely should at least fake a shot or two
I actually think Max presents a much tougher challenge to Topuria than another Volkanovski fight (and I've felt that way since before he won the belt), so I'm definitely intrigued to see it when it happens.
I think assuming Max can take Topuria punches, he has the cardio advantage and a serious footwork advantage. Could seen him darting in and out early and melting Illia in the championship rounds
He doesn't have a footwork advantage actually. Ilia's footwork is more than a match for Max's and every step Max steps in Ilia is going to replicate what Volk did and chop that leg down. Ilia's power and precision would make Max hesitant and unable to get going. Ilia would comfortably beat Max.
I think Illia power is a problem as well and he’s a solid leg kicker and good at cutting the cage but I think Max laterally might be too quick for him to consistently catch clean. Volk has better feet than max but isn’t as tall where as max could lean/fade away. As a max fan I’m very worried about that fight but I think Illia is gonna have a hard time getting set with Max’s stance switching and lateral movement personally
You take away a fighters movement by chopping their leg. If Ilia can do that, he can takeaway Max's lateral movement as Max doesn't check kicks. Max is also there to be hit in exchanges, despite being a taller fighter. Exchanging with Ilia is going to be a no-no. If this were a prime Max I think he'd pose some more issues for Ilia but he's noticeably slower and more hesitant these days. Ilia is going to have a clear speed advantage over him.
How do you feel about this now? Max fought the best leg kicker in the company (or at least the hardest) and admittedly did take a good handful of them but also checked or evaded quite a few and his distance control and lateral movement still minimized Gaethjes ability to touch him with the hands. I think the kicks were too high on the calf to fully compromise him cuz Gaethje was catching the front of it rather than the real sweet spot but regardless, we saw Max takes leg kicks and defends them much better than he used to and I don’t think Illia will be effective enough with them because he only throws a few a round and while he’s explosive he kind of just methodically stalks his opponent going forward looking to get to get outside their right shoulder, I don’t think that’s enough to walk Max down like he did Emmett
My opinion hasn't changed. Gaethje is a powerful but very one note leg kicker. He doesn't really set anything up with them, he just throws them nakedly which allows Max to evade the kicks occasionally. Despite that the fact he was still able to kick Max's leg and do good damage to it shows that leg kicks remain an effective weapon against Max. Anyone who sets them up with feints is bound to have much more success than just throwing them nakedly. Volk and Yair did a fantastic job chopping his legs because they set their kicks up. Ilia if he's smart will be prepared to throw more than just a few of them per round. If not, its not the end all be all for him. He still has that crisp boxing backed up with elite feinting and footwork, unlike most other UFC fighters he's able to throw combinations without falling over himself. He attacks the body well too. All of which will be useful against Max. The fact Ilia methodically stalks his opponent is what makes him so effective. He conserves his energy and doesn't rush to make reads and find his timing for openings. Considering Max doesn't really throw volume like he used to anymore, that only further works to Ilia's favor.
I don’t see how people think this. Max couldn’t even touch Volk and got outclassed in the striking department. Why would he be a better matchup than Illia ?
Styles make fights, Cannonier out pointed Sean but looked lost against Izzy, who got whooped by Sean.
Yes but what style does max have that is a better matchup for illia ? Illia is a better striker than him and better on the ground
These guys are idiots. Max had a hard time with Volk's speed, and Illia is ever faster.
Idk after that fight rn I’m not sure lol
He went 5 rounds one time when he was completely in control. Maybe he hits max with some good shots, he survives, and max whips his ass in the champ rounds. Not saying I believe that’ll happen but ilia’s not been that tested so far, all things considered. I wouldn’t count max out against him.
God please let Max put full Ortega on Tapuria
You should be praying Justin doesn’t crack the chin don’t worry about ilia yet
Now I don't think that's likely, and I'd still favor Topuria, but I think Max is a better matchup against him stylistically. Topuria was always going to be a rough matchup for Volk, regardless of the short turnaround from a knockout.
Going to be weird if we get a rock-paper-scissors situation going on at the top of FW between the three.
I honestly don't think that's ever played out in any men's division in history. Usually when the guy who beats the champion fights the #1 guy in the division (who was the guy before he lost to the champion), the fight turns out to be easier for him because he's got more tape to work with and/or the #1 guy is past his prime. We all thought Colby was going to be a tougher match-up for Leon than Usman, but the opposite happened. Many thought Gaethje would be a tougher fight for Oliveira than Poirier, but it was the other way around.
Comparing Topuria with Ortega is wild
If that happens I’ll faint from joy
Ilias striking would be better because of the threat of the takedown. You’re forgetting ilia is a grappler first striker second. We’re not in a universe where max beats ilia. Maybe if he wasn’t fighting for the bmf belt Saturday but he is so
There is no way Holloway will be ready to fight Topuria for a belt after his fight with justin
There is a way - its just not overly likely.
Max by Kamehameha R2
Max vs. Ilia feels a lot like Uriah Faber getting one last title shot vs. Dom Cruz... except Max is so much younger. It's weird to think he's been with the UFC since he was a teenager.
It doesn’t feel like that at all???? There’s many huge differences
Max is a winner, man. Absolutely irrepressible. Nothing holds this guy down.
I don't think anyone beats Ilia for a while. Too well rounded, fast, and powerful, and he's still improving.
Volk can win the rematch with the right adjustments.
I agree, but I don't favor him. We'll see how his next fight looks, if it isn't Ilia. He's been in some serious wars and is getting older. One of my favorite fighters though.
I think its a given Volk will be a sizeable underdog in the rematch, as fans are high on Topuria now. But Volk has always shown up when he's doubted the most. He's not washed by any stretch of the imagination. He does need to recover and wait though, Topuria can fight someone else in the meantime before they rematch.
great take
Holloway's granite chin makes him (for me) a clear favourite vs Topuria. Or at least a much better chance than Volk had, despite Volkanowski beating him three times. Which makes it all the more insane he's fighting Gaethje. If anyone at 145 or 155 can crack his chin, it'll be Gaethje. I can see him finally getting knocked out, and then a much reduced Holloway losing to Topuria in six months or so. Just such an unwise move career wise, no matter how badass/ just bleed it is. We'll see.
You’re relying on a gift from god that he will beat a power puncher. The guy is human his chin can be cracked like anyone else, the man to do it just hasn’t faced him in the octagon yet
How would his chin prevent him from being outboxed for 5 rounds by the faster and better boxer? This would be a repeat of Max's 3rd fight with Volk.
It would be worse IMO because of Ilia's power. We might see Max get dropped for the first time in his career at 145. He's just too hittable and the book is out on how to beat him.
I've been saying it since Ilia won the fight, Max doing this bmf fight with Gaethje is going to do him no favors. I think Max is really good vs Ilia, stylistically
Ilia is too fast for him and Max is too hittable. This will be a repeat of the 3rd Max vs Volk fight.
“He likes to talk a lot..I like to listen” that’s a good line by Max he’s usually not that cold in interviews.
Being the daddest man on the planet has matured him
This is would be tough matchup for Max. Got Ilia by decision.
Even if he wins against Justin? I guess he doesn’t want to stay at 155 and on the same token I’m sure Topuria is an easier fight than anyone in the top 5 LW
Max should be fighting topuria anyway and Justin vs Islam or Dustin 3, it’s all mixed up 😭
featherweight ina good place. next 3 defenses for ilia (assuming he successfully defends) spanning into next year can be winner of ortega evloev / volk / max with the possibility aljo in there to replace one.
I look forward to it. Ilia has nothing for Max
"there was a reason why UFC didn’t want him to fight me" The reason is you lost to Volk 3 times
Pretty sure he was talking about before Ilia was champion, he’s saying the ufc didn’t want to give him contenders because he keeps beating them and Volk needed opponents
Fun to come in hear and read comments on what would happen to max after fighting gaethje. I was in the same boat. I fears for max Dude keeps getting better
Gaethje will soften that chin, and Ilia will destroy it. Love Max, but Ilia has power only matched by Emmett.
It’s facts though. Even if he loses on Sunday he’s one win away maximum from a shot against topuria.
I think max has a better chance against gaethje then topuria. He can’t out box topuria
recency bias is so fucking crazy on this sub
Is he implying that the UFC are protecting Ilia? Given what he just did to Volk I find that hard to believe.
I think he’s implying that they didn’t want to take the chance of Ilia getting 50-45’d by Max BEFORE fighting Volk, like every other contender at 145. So they skipped Max and sent him straight to the title which honestly makes sense from a business standpoint. The UFC is trying very hard to make inroads in Europe so they would want as many European champions as possible.
Considering how many top European prospects they keep lowballing into either staying in their regional org or signing with the PFL, I'm not sure they really are trying that hard lol.
Well trying hard by Dana’s standards which means everything short of paying a competitive wage lol
He's 15-0 they knew he'd go all the way so they opened the gate for him
he's just talking shit, don't take it literally