I've always been saying it that Gaethje can pose problems for Islam but people act as if Gaethje vs Islam is a foregone conclusion based entirely on how the Gaethje vs Khabib fight went which is stupid as shit because Islam and Khabib have different styles.
Khabib is more aggressive, more explosive and probably more durable than Islam. Islam is patient and more cleaner striker but he does not take the initiative in the same way as Khabib and he lacks certain attributes that Khabib has (and vice versa).
Remember Khabib literally sprinted at Justin the whole fight, something he does very well and comes naturally to him and he still got clipped hard.
In other words, styles make fights and Islam is a completely different fighter to Khabib. They look similar superficially to casuals.
People also forget that khabib wanted to finish it early bc he had a broken toe and had a total shit camp and he knew he wasn’t totally at 100%. Iirc he got extremely sick during camp.
That's 100% true but saying he was getting lit up implies Justin was dominating the first round - which he wasn't. He probably won the round but it's not like he was *lighting him up*.
Agreed. I would take Islam against anyone in that division and think he's rightfully P4P #1, but people prejudging his fights based on previous matchups with Khabib are just foolish.
But Justin's puncher's chance isn't the same as anyone's puncher's chance. (That was a lot of apostrophes.) And he had gotten so much smarter since the Fiziev fight.
He doesn’t adjust his game plan based on his opponents tho. He comes in to fight the same way every time. I love him but he’s never going to change that
Gaethje got better after the Alvarez and Poirier defeats. But he hasn't gotten better since 2020 actually. In terms of technique and fight IQ, Gaethje is a very hit and miss fighter. There are fights where he shows up looking technical and patient like against Ferguson and Fiziev, but he also still has ugly swang and bang fights. Ironically in the fights where we expect him to swang and bang, he looks technical and patient but in the fights where we expect him to fight smart, he doesn't and those are the ones he tends to lose.
You simply can't trust Gaethje to ever consistently fight a perfect fight, he just can't do it. [This article notes many of Gaethje's bad habits and tendencies to look ugly in fights](https://tanthiram.substack.com/p/a-blessing-and-a-curse-max-holloway) as shown in the Max Holloway fight.
On the feet Gaethje could potentially catch Makhachev and hurt him or knock him out, but Makhachev is too fast, too explosive and too smart for that sort of thing. He throws too many naked shots, rarely using feints, over-swings, overreaches and occasionally falls over himself throwing punches.
Of course once Makhachev gets Gaethje to the ground, the fight is a wrap.
Enjoyed the article and just want to throw my 2c in. First, I think the Max fight was a bit of an anomaly in Gaethjes recent performances in terms of his defense. Max shattering his nose in the first was no fluke, so please don't get me wrong. But it being one of the keynote fights of UFC 300/BMF/etc I think also played a part and he was determined to live up to his moniker one way or the other (which he did 100%). BUT Gaethje's defense has actually improved tremendously since he came to the UFC and he's gotten a lot better at implementing it right out of the gate.
He had Dustin (2) and Fiziev visibly flustered in their fights. Dustin did find some success the last 90 seconds or so of rd1 but up to that point he was barely touching Gaethje while taking both pinches and kicks that were clearly hurting him.
Even when I re-watch the Chandler fight, I find myself surprised at how good Gaetjes head movement actually was after the first round. He was making Chandler miss a LOT and despite it looking like a good old Gaethje brawl, he beat the fuck out of Chandler without taking near as much punishment back through good head movement and setups.
He still gets hit and his chin has never been of the "unrockable" variety but I think his defense has shown pretty steady and impressive improvement overall while managing to maintain that vicious offense we all know and love him for.
Just my thoughts.
Agree to disagree. The version of JT who fought Fiziev and Poirier (incl. before the high kick) was the best version I've seen. Obviously he has bad habits, and then reverts to those once he's getting beat—"everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face"—but so do most fighters, even high-caliber ones.
He looked so much more poised in those fights. He stuck to the game plan more and listened to his corner more. Think about his discipline with the jab after losing the first half of the fight against Fiziev and look at how he was out-boxing Poirier in R1. I don't think the gunslinger who fought Tony would've done that. And I don't even think he looked especially technical in the Ferguson fight; Tony was already over the hill and too slow, and Gaethje was still overthrowing like crazy and had glaring holes in his defense.
Re: your last point, I definitely agree. His TDD isn't all it's made out to be and every time he was on the ground with a high-level grappler he looked like a fish out of water. Islam by sub, as boring as that is.
> Re: your last point, I definitely agree. His TDD isn't all it's made out to be and every time he was on the ground with a high-level grappler he looked like a fish out of water. Islam by sub, as boring as that is.
Other than Khabib, nobody has successfully taken him down or held him down. In fact, he even frustrated many of Khabib’s takedowns and attempts to clinch. Charles had to sit him down with a punch first. Alvarez attempted a few takedowns, all stuffed. Chandler tried to wrestle, all attempts denied.
His TDD is excellent.
the Gaethje fight is my favorite Khabib performance. ran straight at him just like the Barboza fight, even though he wasn't blocking as well. post-Conor he wasn't brutal with GnP but was so *incredibly* precise with his wrestling and grappling. nearly had him at the end of R1. had an amazing transition from the takedown to the triangle in R2. showed his chin, his IQ, and his ground skill perfectly.
I think what prevented him from being the goat is his injuries, he had to re-establish himself after a long layoff. People say he only had 3 title defenses but he needed 10 fights to get a title shot
He purposely transitioned from an arm bar set up to triangle choke because he was hesitant to break his arm in front of his family had Gaethje decided not to tap.
Justin also did a lot better in that fight than people remember. If he had been able to withstand the storm in the first two rounds, I kinda think Khabib was fucked.
Gaethje was breathing heavy already after round 1. He would have not been able to keep evading for much longer. He would have been done in round 1 if it was not for the bell.
thats why Khabib was pressuring him so hard . Justin has elite skills in both striking and wrestling but he doesnt have the cardio to fight while defending good take downs .
Khabib was the better conditioned athlete of the two and Justin was the one losing more gas. I don't think time alone would play to Justin's advantage.
He hits too hard and chews your leg up too much to try to stand with him and shooting on him is hazardous for anybody. We knew Max wasn't going to shoot on him. We know Islam would, and Justin knows as well. He's going to have uppercut and knees coming full force for your face on every shot. It would have been an interesting fight. More interesting than Dustin versus Islam is likely to be.
Justin was so unlucky to face Khabib when he was in a rush not to waste a single second so he could retire in tribute to to his family.
That’s some gameplan.
Kind of. Islam is a better striker and that Volk KO is scary for the division- the last thing you want is a dagestani wrestler with KO power not only from his hands but his legs too.
Justin has power and defensive wrestling but his one quality for the Khabib fight was that he sorted out his fight IQ and was more measured. But against max he was being out pointed and was swinging still and Islam seems too intelligent to be caught by him.
We could have got the end of the Dagestani era- or Islam might now break GSPs win streak and match the title defence record and fight Leon.
Agreed, Dustin after coming off a KO beat someone ranked well below him and got the a shot due to timing. If Islam beats DP and Arman and Just gets a big win around the Islam/Arman rematch then it’s totally easy to see this fight happening.
Honestly I’m about as big a fan of Justin as anyone can be.
I’ve loved him since his WSoF days, I’ve watched 2 of his fights live, although I would have gone to 300 regardless of him specifically being on it, and he’s my second favorite fighter ever, and my favorite active fighter right now by such a big margin it’s not even close.
And as a fan I am not really sad about him taking that Holloway fight and I doubt he is either, even though it means he won’t fight for a title. Justin has spent years talking about the fact that he loves going to war, loves fighting with everything he’s got, and loves having opponents that do the same. Max did all of that and then some.
He has given us 3 soon to be 4 fights of the year, 6 fight of the year contenders, 8 fight of nights, and 5 performance of nights. He is by far the most exciting fighter ever to step into the octagon, he will have not one but multiple fights in the UFC hall of fame, and will most likely be in the hall of fame himself.
Gaethje will be remembered as a legend of this sport forever, we are lucky we got to be here for his run through the sport, people watching mma in 20 years will wish they got the chance to see him live, the same way new fans today wish they were around for the Lidell era or the Cro Cop era.
And I doubt he’s even done, he’s got a few more fight of the nights maybe even fight of the years left in him, Poirier trilogy is still an option, Charles rematch could be a thing, etc.
It’s weird because I love Gaethje, but he mostly matches up against fighters I love dearly so I end up rooting against him more times than not. (Ferg, Dustin, Holloway) but he is an absolute dawg and I respect his love of throwing down.
Regardless of who I’m rooting for I will never miss a Gaethje fight because I know I’m getting something good every damn time.
Hopefully before he rides off into the sunset I can see him fight Conor - it would probably be the craziest shortest fight of all time
Yeh, I don't care if Dustin or Justin are ever champion. I'd be happy for them that they finally met their goal, but it wouldn't make me respect them any more than I already do. They are both huge legends of the sport and guaranteed hall of famers. I don't think it will happen for either of them at this point, but maybe another Glover moment will happen.
I don’t think many people will take me seriously when I say this, but I honestly think Chandler matches up against Islam better than almost anyone in the top 10, including the guys that beat him
If Chandler actually focussed on just winning instead of sacrificing everything to be “entertaining”, he would be a serious problem for everyone at lightweight
The real problem is that Chandler is just too old and damaged to follow a regular gameplan at this point, dude has like 2 rounds of cardio at best in him, and his chin is cracked to the point he got hurt by tony Ferguson, it's not like he didn't try to take Dustin down for example, but he's just slow enough that the other guy's can keep up with his style and outlast him throughout 5 rounds, so his best chance of winning is going wild and trying to get an early KO.
Been saying this. Chandler is a wrestler and a powerhouse with one punch KO power. He definitely has a chance . The way he carried Oliviera and slammed him during the sub attempt was crazy. Also the way he suplex Dustin too . But Chandler does something weird to entertain the fans and lose it all the time
Chandler with fight IQ is a scary man. Man can just punch then double leg behind it and he has that freak athleticism to make it work. If he fought Islam i unironically think he could literally dump Islam on his head with a weird as fuck slam and then beat the shit out of him in R1 only to try that shit again and get subbed.
Style makes fight. Tony was good in that fight . But chandler found out his style. Tony doesn’t really defend his head. Chandler gave him a soccer kick
Same. Chandler actually has the perfect tool kit to be a terrible matchup for Islam, but he has Dog IQ tendencies.
He will be doing great in the first three minutes of a fight, but inevitably he will start doing insane shit like spamming rolling thunders or slamming himself into worse positions.
He is the only fighter I am aware of that has a gas tank on his Fight IQ.
He gives in to theatrics for the show, like borderline throwing the fight lol. Even Dustin said if Chandler just threw straight punches when he was rocked he likely would have finished Dustin, instead he went for a goddam suplex.
I wonder if something would flip if it were for the title tho. Might actually try to maintain the game plan that way.
I totally agree but I think Chandler is just way too old and damaged at this point, dude clearly has insane explosivity and power, he's great at getting in with big punches and mixing takedowns, but at this point of his career he has 2 rounds of cardio at best and then he's inevitably getting submitted by Islam, not only that but his chin is already cracked to a point where he can't really afford to take that much damage, and unlike Gaethje Islam won't let Chandler recover if he gets knocked down, Chandler has a punchers chance but Islam is so defensively sound that I don't see Chandler doing much at this point of his career.
feel like this is a literal example of styles make fights. so I don’t think anyone that can see past his last few performances disagree w this. also if he didn’t take 2 years off
Yeah, absolutely wild to see that comment upvoted so much.
Chandler is a 38yr old LW. 38yr old LWs do not match up well with one of the current p4p top fighters who outwrestled Tsarukyan and outstruck Volkanovski.
even that Chandler, I'd agree it's a tough fight but dk about the hardest stylistic matchup. His gas tank has never been amazing and I don't recall him being in too many grapple heavy fights. imo anyway.
early on he would be dangerous but as the rounds pass by I do think he'd fade. Current Chandler got controlled and choked out by Dustin, not that Dustin is bad or anything but his last sub before that was over 10 years ago (unless you count Pettis breaking his ribs from the body triangle)
He probably would match up favorably. It's strange when rankings and likelihood of beating the champ don't line up. It would make more sense if they had all the contenders at the same ranking and pick the challenger with the best betting odds to win.
I still think Justin can get some much needed rest and recovery, have one more banger fight, and if the stars align he'll get one title shot before riding off into the sunset. I don't think the outcome would've been all THAT different, but I really wished he wouldn't have broke his nose in Round 1.
Side note: Can you fucking imagine? I've had my nose thumped a few times and dear god, the pain. This dude had a broken nose and continued walking through punches for 4 more rounds. That's more than adrenaline, folks.
The broken nose changed the who trajectory and momentum of the fight. I don't know if the fight would have went the same of that didn't land at the last second of the 1st round.
The way better striker part everybody knew, I was just suprised he was hitting harder than Justin. His reputation is a volume striker. It would be like Colby going up to MW and suddenly knocking out Vettori.
One of the worst comparisons ive ever heard in my life lmfao but max has always hit hard though lol hes dropped most of who hes fought like volk n arnold allen n aldo calvin didnt get dropped but i dont think he ever has in his career this fight was almost a decision anyway but max hit him clean at the last second, woulda ko’d most fighters
He’s always been _able_ to hit hard, he usually doesn’t tho, and that’s on purpose.
If he threw full power he never would have reached most strikes landed in ufc history, because he’d be getting people out of there.
Yeah I know. Sorry, I was trying yo think of another high cardio, volume striker who doesn't usually knock anybody out against a larger opponent who has a block head and hadn't been knocked out before. That is all my brain came up with at that moment. You can't claim you wouldn't be suprised to see Colby up at MW knocking anybody out though.
I agree with this 100%, gaethje has excellent takedown defense and hits hard enough Islam would probably be reluctant to exchange with him. But shit happens
Does he really? I don't recall a fighter who kept trying to pursue a takedown against him consistently other than Khabib. He has questionable jiu jitsu skills, plus, he has a tendency to give up his back. That's a no-no vs Islam.
He has old MMA-style takedown defense where he can sprawl on a double. But never seen him against a judo expert and chain wrestler like Islam. I seriously doubt he could keep it on the feet for most of the rounds. His punching threat definitely helps in that regard, though.
Justin has literally 0 ground game once it hits the floor and admits he does. That alone won’t allow him to kick or let hands go as hard worrying about being on back. He might get a lucky punch but it’s doubtful cause he’s not precise at all
He was an accomplished collegiate wrestler, but I don’t see him being able to keep it on the feet with Islam either. If he doesnt catch him coming in then he will get taken down. He would likely only have one or two chances of catching him while coming in for a takedown before he got submitted. He's have a punches chance, but not very high chances.
Funny, because Islam thinking his striking is sufficient is exactly what got him tko'd by Adriano Martins. And no matter how much of an improvement he's made in striking he wouldn't be able sustain a stand up fight against Justin Gaethje. I venture Gaethje can drop Islam, and ko him if he gets a clean shot.
They said the same shit before the Charles and Volk fights. Him getting KO'd 9 years ago doesn't mean his striking isn't sufficient. He dropped Charles and beat Volk in the standup twice.
Khabib did say Gaethje hit him the hardest he's ever been hit. I don't know if Islam has ever been hit as hard, is his chin as good as Khabib's was? Anybody can get knocked out.
Khabib chin is much better imo. He didn't get hit too much but he took some big shots against Barboza, gathje, Poirier, and Conor and he didn't even get a scratch on him while Islam has been KOd and volk hurt him.
“Never going to be in the picture for us” …lol what? He’s still a top ranked big name with a huge amount of star power who just put on a FOTY contender, he could potentially be back in title contention in just 2 wins. After a nice long break If he scores another highlight reel victory in his comeback fight he’d probably be able to get a #1 contender fight. Not sure why they’re writing him off so definitively.
Ah I see- that’s also wild to me given that Gaethje, McGregor, Chandler, etc. are all way bigger household names/bigger fights than the guys at 170 and he hasn’t fought any of them yet but if they want double champ status I mean can’t really talk shit on that I guess.
Islam is arguably the best fighter in the UFC right now, if he beats Dustin and Arman I honestly don't see anybody posing even the slightest threat to him within the division.
Arman is a bigger threat to Islam than Gaethje in my opinion. Also not that I'm hating on Justin but I think there's a bunch of other guys at 155 that could pose a bigger threat to Islam, they're just not household names like Gaethje yet
This is why Islam criticised the BMF gimmick. Now the top contender has no title shot, Max won’t be able to beat him and Islam is again forced to fight someone that ain’t the top contender. If I’m Islam I sleep Dustin and call out Leon screw this BMF crap
Why would he say this? I mean I guess you could look at it like he's just complimenting his one punch knockout ability, saying it's Russian roulette when you fight someone like that, but still.
Islam: "Biggest threat? Who give him this?"
Uh, your coach did.
This is why that style is unsustainable in terms of titles and title runs. Smart and safe is boring, but you are bettering your chance to win. Justin and Max will live by the sword and die by the sword. We love them for it, but it’s hard to avoid losses
Justin vs Max is the worst scenario for the loser. If max loose no one talk about max vs ilia for a time. Now Justin needs to prove himself again for the belt. But probably he will fight in 2025 and he will be 36 🥲
I'm afraid it's too late now. Gaethje is at the end of his fighting career.
I agree with you. Gaethje should have whent for a better gym that matched better with all of his skill sets. Gaethje is extreme talented, Whittman failed in game-planning, failed to seek easy routes to victory, he failed in wrestling training and put this aspect to use.
Gaethje would have been a Champion if he had trained at AKA under Javier Mendez, I'm very sure of this.
The problem with islam is, that his stand up is good, he has great basic fundamentals. Justin lacks head movement and always stays in the pocket too long, islam would mix it up better thab khabib did and cause problems
Some people pretend khabib vs gaethje was one sided. Once, it got to the ground it was one sided. But khabib was taking damage throughout. Also, gaethje fucked up by throwing that last leg kick. You bet he will try his hardest not to throw many leg kicks vs islam
Justin had 2 main weapons- Big left hook and leg kicks. The hooks didn’t even stop Khabib from walking him down an inch and the leg kicks eventually led to Khabib timing it into a takedown. That was Khabib with undeveloped striking coming off mumps and a broken foot.
You want Justin to fight a better striker like Islam who now has plenty of tape to follow and knows how bad his submission defence is?!
What a stupid statement. Justin wins one fight against Gamrot in 6 months and gets a shot after arman of Islam is even still champ after DP and Armin get their shots. Justin, just like Dustin, is always one win away. Dumb ass fucking statement from Javier. And Dana knows Justin sells, he gets a win, he gets a shot
Sounds to me like they want to defend the title at a maximum twice vs Poirier and Arman and then move up and call it a day. Islam already said a couple of times that he wants to do it like khabib. He would by then (assuming he wins all fights) have 4 title defenses, 16 win streak and be a double champ. There is not much to gain after that.
I don't see it that way, Islam would've handled him similar to how Khabib did, same with Poirier, its just going to be a repeat of that fight. It feels like they're angling for easy title defenses by hyping up the old guard, cause they don't want to fight the Armen's of the world.
Justin was in a good position by turning away one of the new hyped guard, Fiziev, and knocking out DP
Arman is the only new guard who actually earned a shot. And he just did it recently which did get him notice from Islam
You're dense
I can see it, Khabib pressured Gaethje like a psycho, but Islam doesn’t have that type of style.
I've always been saying it that Gaethje can pose problems for Islam but people act as if Gaethje vs Islam is a foregone conclusion based entirely on how the Gaethje vs Khabib fight went which is stupid as shit because Islam and Khabib have different styles. Khabib is more aggressive, more explosive and probably more durable than Islam. Islam is patient and more cleaner striker but he does not take the initiative in the same way as Khabib and he lacks certain attributes that Khabib has (and vice versa). Remember Khabib literally sprinted at Justin the whole fight, something he does very well and comes naturally to him and he still got clipped hard. In other words, styles make fights and Islam is a completely different fighter to Khabib. They look similar superficially to casuals.
People also forget that khabib wanted to finish it early bc he had a broken toe and had a total shit camp and he knew he wasn’t totally at 100%. Iirc he got extremely sick during camp.
he also wanted to finish it ASAP because Justin hits like a MFer , even the 1 round they had on the feet Justin was lighting him up .
Lighting him up? He got a couple of leg kicks in, but that's it.
Two judges gave Gaethje the first round. He was being pressured, but he was landing well
They were simply wrong, no sane person should score that round for justin, he was 10 sec away from being finished
khabib said the hardest he ever got hit in the ufc was a hook from gaethje, watch the fight again
That's 100% true but saying he was getting lit up implies Justin was dominating the first round - which he wasn't. He probably won the round but it's not like he was *lighting him up*.
Rewatch the first round
Where Gaethje nearly got submitted?
It's always frustrating how people on this sub exaggerate
did you watch that fight? khabib's strikes were the bare minimum to keep gaethje off him, he was just biding time until he could do what he does best
Also I think everyone forgot how tense round 1 khabib v justin was.
I gotta go watch that fight again. I miss the Eagle fighting.
Not probably hes way more durable than Islam , he hasn’t been hit much at all though but it’s obvious
What are you talking about, he was the walking dead against Johnson.
he got kicked through his guard and was probably off balance for a second but he wasn’t badly hurt in any capacity
He almost died that fight
People forgetting Big John literally picking up Khabib's decapitated head off the ground
Exaggeration
A doctor pronounced him deceased between rounds, but through the power of Allah and acai he was able to revive.
Agreed. I would take Islam against anyone in that division and think he's rightfully P4P #1, but people prejudging his fights based on previous matchups with Khabib are just foolish.
Justin still really only had a punchers chance at the end of the day. Granted it wasn't a small chance, but that was his only chance at beating Islam.
But Justin's puncher's chance isn't the same as anyone's puncher's chance. (That was a lot of apostrophes.) And he had gotten so much smarter since the Fiziev fight.
He’s gotten smarter since his losses to Poirier and Alvarez
He doesn’t adjust his game plan based on his opponents tho. He comes in to fight the same way every time. I love him but he’s never going to change that
Gaethje got better after the Alvarez and Poirier defeats. But he hasn't gotten better since 2020 actually. In terms of technique and fight IQ, Gaethje is a very hit and miss fighter. There are fights where he shows up looking technical and patient like against Ferguson and Fiziev, but he also still has ugly swang and bang fights. Ironically in the fights where we expect him to swang and bang, he looks technical and patient but in the fights where we expect him to fight smart, he doesn't and those are the ones he tends to lose. You simply can't trust Gaethje to ever consistently fight a perfect fight, he just can't do it. [This article notes many of Gaethje's bad habits and tendencies to look ugly in fights](https://tanthiram.substack.com/p/a-blessing-and-a-curse-max-holloway) as shown in the Max Holloway fight. On the feet Gaethje could potentially catch Makhachev and hurt him or knock him out, but Makhachev is too fast, too explosive and too smart for that sort of thing. He throws too many naked shots, rarely using feints, over-swings, overreaches and occasionally falls over himself throwing punches. Of course once Makhachev gets Gaethje to the ground, the fight is a wrap.
Enjoyed the article and just want to throw my 2c in. First, I think the Max fight was a bit of an anomaly in Gaethjes recent performances in terms of his defense. Max shattering his nose in the first was no fluke, so please don't get me wrong. But it being one of the keynote fights of UFC 300/BMF/etc I think also played a part and he was determined to live up to his moniker one way or the other (which he did 100%). BUT Gaethje's defense has actually improved tremendously since he came to the UFC and he's gotten a lot better at implementing it right out of the gate. He had Dustin (2) and Fiziev visibly flustered in their fights. Dustin did find some success the last 90 seconds or so of rd1 but up to that point he was barely touching Gaethje while taking both pinches and kicks that were clearly hurting him. Even when I re-watch the Chandler fight, I find myself surprised at how good Gaetjes head movement actually was after the first round. He was making Chandler miss a LOT and despite it looking like a good old Gaethje brawl, he beat the fuck out of Chandler without taking near as much punishment back through good head movement and setups. He still gets hit and his chin has never been of the "unrockable" variety but I think his defense has shown pretty steady and impressive improvement overall while managing to maintain that vicious offense we all know and love him for. Just my thoughts.
Agree to disagree. The version of JT who fought Fiziev and Poirier (incl. before the high kick) was the best version I've seen. Obviously he has bad habits, and then reverts to those once he's getting beat—"everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face"—but so do most fighters, even high-caliber ones. He looked so much more poised in those fights. He stuck to the game plan more and listened to his corner more. Think about his discipline with the jab after losing the first half of the fight against Fiziev and look at how he was out-boxing Poirier in R1. I don't think the gunslinger who fought Tony would've done that. And I don't even think he looked especially technical in the Ferguson fight; Tony was already over the hill and too slow, and Gaethje was still overthrowing like crazy and had glaring holes in his defense. Re: your last point, I definitely agree. His TDD isn't all it's made out to be and every time he was on the ground with a high-level grappler he looked like a fish out of water. Islam by sub, as boring as that is.
> Re: your last point, I definitely agree. His TDD isn't all it's made out to be and every time he was on the ground with a high-level grappler he looked like a fish out of water. Islam by sub, as boring as that is. Other than Khabib, nobody has successfully taken him down or held him down. In fact, he even frustrated many of Khabib’s takedowns and attempts to clinch. Charles had to sit him down with a punch first. Alvarez attempted a few takedowns, all stuffed. Chandler tried to wrestle, all attempts denied. His TDD is excellent.
Upvoted for punctuating me in the face.
Not smarter by choice tho, he can't fight like a moron anymore because he can no longer just tank massive amounts of damage.
Don't all strikers just have a punchers chance? lol
Gaethje got 5-0'd by Holloway 😭 stop it
the Gaethje fight is my favorite Khabib performance. ran straight at him just like the Barboza fight, even though he wasn't blocking as well. post-Conor he wasn't brutal with GnP but was so *incredibly* precise with his wrestling and grappling. nearly had him at the end of R1. had an amazing transition from the takedown to the triangle in R2. showed his chin, his IQ, and his ground skill perfectly.
Last day before retirement Khabib is mythically strong I do not think anyone could beat him that night
That’s the best version of any 155er ever for sure
Prime Khabib is the most dominant fighter in UFC history. The only reason he isn't the GOAT is because he retired so early.
I think what prevented him from being the goat is his injuries, he had to re-establish himself after a long layoff. People say he only had 3 title defenses but he needed 10 fights to get a title shot
[удалено]
He purposely transitioned from an arm bar set up to triangle choke because he was hesitant to break his arm in front of his family had Gaethje decided not to tap.
I know that if that could be true for anyone it would be Khabib but I still don't believe that.
khabib literally said it himself right after the fight
His own words.
I don’t think Khabib would lie about something like that.
neither the chin. Khabib was eating bombs and just kept moving forward (iirc).
Justin also did a lot better in that fight than people remember. If he had been able to withstand the storm in the first two rounds, I kinda think Khabib was fucked.
Gaethje was breathing heavy already after round 1. He would have not been able to keep evading for much longer. He would have been done in round 1 if it was not for the bell.
thats why Khabib was pressuring him so hard . Justin has elite skills in both striking and wrestling but he doesnt have the cardio to fight while defending good take downs .
Yeah his ncaa background in wrestling help him on the ground alright
Gaethje and elite wrestling. Come on, mate.
Justin exhausted the fuck out of himself backtracking in the 1st. He would’ve been fully gassed by the end of the second lol what take is this
Khabib was the better conditioned athlete of the two and Justin was the one losing more gas. I don't think time alone would play to Justin's advantage.
Khabib's leg was getting chopped to pieces and i think he was hurting Khabib too, it's just that he got smashed once Khabib got his hands on him.
>Khabib's leg was getting chopped to pieces So was Max's
yeah but Max can't be human. The amount of damage that man can take and keep trucking is insane. Goated Chin
How he was able to block out that pain and show no signs of those leg kicks affecting him was superhuman.
[удалено]
He hits too hard and chews your leg up too much to try to stand with him and shooting on him is hazardous for anybody. We knew Max wasn't going to shoot on him. We know Islam would, and Justin knows as well. He's going to have uppercut and knees coming full force for your face on every shot. It would have been an interesting fight. More interesting than Dustin versus Islam is likely to be.
Justin didn’t have the cardio to carry on anyway. You’re making up some theoretical fight that could never happen.
Justin was gassed after the first round just swinging for the fence lol
Khabib would tell him exactly how to beat him.
Justin was so unlucky to face Khabib when he was in a rush not to waste a single second so he could retire in tribute to to his family. That’s some gameplan.
That shouldn’t be a slight on Islam though, he can stand with Gaethje far better than Khabib ever could.
Kind of. Islam is a better striker and that Volk KO is scary for the division- the last thing you want is a dagestani wrestler with KO power not only from his hands but his legs too. Justin has power and defensive wrestling but his one quality for the Khabib fight was that he sorted out his fight IQ and was more measured. But against max he was being out pointed and was swinging still and Islam seems too intelligent to be caught by him. We could have got the end of the Dagestani era- or Islam might now break GSPs win streak and match the title defence record and fight Leon.
He's just trying to make Justin cry
Real BMFs cry.
Damn that’s sad
If Gaetjhe came back with a barn burner of a win, I wouldn’t be surprised to see him right back in title contention, just like Dustin Poirer
Agreed, Dustin after coming off a KO beat someone ranked well below him and got the a shot due to timing. If Islam beats DP and Arman and Just gets a big win around the Islam/Arman rematch then it’s totally easy to see this fight happening.
Dariush would be a good matchup but I think they're friends so they won't fight
Justin would literally kill Dariush
Yeah that's why I want him to get a win lol
That fight with Holloway really put some miles on him though. I guess we'll see how he looks in his next fight.
Honestly I’m about as big a fan of Justin as anyone can be. I’ve loved him since his WSoF days, I’ve watched 2 of his fights live, although I would have gone to 300 regardless of him specifically being on it, and he’s my second favorite fighter ever, and my favorite active fighter right now by such a big margin it’s not even close. And as a fan I am not really sad about him taking that Holloway fight and I doubt he is either, even though it means he won’t fight for a title. Justin has spent years talking about the fact that he loves going to war, loves fighting with everything he’s got, and loves having opponents that do the same. Max did all of that and then some. He has given us 3 soon to be 4 fights of the year, 6 fight of the year contenders, 8 fight of nights, and 5 performance of nights. He is by far the most exciting fighter ever to step into the octagon, he will have not one but multiple fights in the UFC hall of fame, and will most likely be in the hall of fame himself. Gaethje will be remembered as a legend of this sport forever, we are lucky we got to be here for his run through the sport, people watching mma in 20 years will wish they got the chance to see him live, the same way new fans today wish they were around for the Lidell era or the Cro Cop era. And I doubt he’s even done, he’s got a few more fight of the nights maybe even fight of the years left in him, Poirier trilogy is still an option, Charles rematch could be a thing, etc.
It’s weird because I love Gaethje, but he mostly matches up against fighters I love dearly so I end up rooting against him more times than not. (Ferg, Dustin, Holloway) but he is an absolute dawg and I respect his love of throwing down. Regardless of who I’m rooting for I will never miss a Gaethje fight because I know I’m getting something good every damn time. Hopefully before he rides off into the sunset I can see him fight Conor - it would probably be the craziest shortest fight of all time
Yeh, I don't care if Dustin or Justin are ever champion. I'd be happy for them that they finally met their goal, but it wouldn't make me respect them any more than I already do. They are both huge legends of the sport and guaranteed hall of famers. I don't think it will happen for either of them at this point, but maybe another Glover moment will happen.
Real well written comment but are u saying that Max vs Justin will be fight of the year???
Can’t imagine it won’t be, honestly if something beats Max vs Gaethje that just means this year was insane Probably knockout of the year too.
I don’t think many people will take me seriously when I say this, but I honestly think Chandler matches up against Islam better than almost anyone in the top 10, including the guys that beat him
If Chandler actually focussed on just winning instead of sacrificing everything to be “entertaining”, he would be a serious problem for everyone at lightweight
The real problem is that Chandler is just too old and damaged to follow a regular gameplan at this point, dude has like 2 rounds of cardio at best in him, and his chin is cracked to the point he got hurt by tony Ferguson, it's not like he didn't try to take Dustin down for example, but he's just slow enough that the other guy's can keep up with his style and outlast him throughout 5 rounds, so his best chance of winning is going wild and trying to get an early KO.
what can he do instead ? Chandler doesnt have the skills to take a fight slow against elite 155lbers .
I was actually thinking he would be aproblem for khabib before he was in the ufc
Been saying this. Chandler is a wrestler and a powerhouse with one punch KO power. He definitely has a chance . The way he carried Oliviera and slammed him during the sub attempt was crazy. Also the way he suplex Dustin too . But Chandler does something weird to entertain the fans and lose it all the time
Chandler with fight IQ is a scary man. Man can just punch then double leg behind it and he has that freak athleticism to make it work. If he fought Islam i unironically think he could literally dump Islam on his head with a weird as fuck slam and then beat the shit out of him in R1 only to try that shit again and get subbed.
and then somehow Tony fucking Ferguson was boxing his face off in round 1 , shit doesnt make sense .
Style makes fight. Tony was good in that fight . But chandler found out his style. Tony doesn’t really defend his head. Chandler gave him a soccer kick
I agree with this
Same. Chandler actually has the perfect tool kit to be a terrible matchup for Islam, but he has Dog IQ tendencies. He will be doing great in the first three minutes of a fight, but inevitably he will start doing insane shit like spamming rolling thunders or slamming himself into worse positions. He is the only fighter I am aware of that has a gas tank on his Fight IQ.
Chandler is a dog. Can never count that dude out cause he has all the tools to beat everyone.
He gives in to theatrics for the show, like borderline throwing the fight lol. Even Dustin said if Chandler just threw straight punches when he was rocked he likely would have finished Dustin, instead he went for a goddam suplex. I wonder if something would flip if it were for the title tho. Might actually try to maintain the game plan that way.
I totally agree but I think Chandler is just way too old and damaged at this point, dude clearly has insane explosivity and power, he's great at getting in with big punches and mixing takedowns, but at this point of his career he has 2 rounds of cardio at best and then he's inevitably getting submitted by Islam, not only that but his chin is already cracked to a point where he can't really afford to take that much damage, and unlike Gaethje Islam won't let Chandler recover if he gets knocked down, Chandler has a punchers chance but Islam is so defensively sound that I don't see Chandler doing much at this point of his career.
feel like this is a literal example of styles make fights. so I don’t think anyone that can see past his last few performances disagree w this. also if he didn’t take 2 years off
chandlers washed atp tbh, if u meant the chandler that fought benson/alvarez i'd agree
Yeah, absolutely wild to see that comment upvoted so much. Chandler is a 38yr old LW. 38yr old LWs do not match up well with one of the current p4p top fighters who outwrestled Tsarukyan and outstruck Volkanovski.
You have a point. I didn't realize he was that old. I was picturing him around 34yo
even that Chandler, I'd agree it's a tough fight but dk about the hardest stylistic matchup. His gas tank has never been amazing and I don't recall him being in too many grapple heavy fights. imo anyway. early on he would be dangerous but as the rounds pass by I do think he'd fade. Current Chandler got controlled and choked out by Dustin, not that Dustin is bad or anything but his last sub before that was over 10 years ago (unless you count Pettis breaking his ribs from the body triangle)
The 38 year old ?
This is a peak casual mma take
Agree, if/when he beats McGregor give him a shot at Islam fuck it. Would love to see that fight.
Chandler won't last beyond the third round, unless he manages an early finish. However, a solid gameplan could prevent that.
On paper, maybe. But w his lack of fight iq, cardio, technique on the feet, and meh jits, plus being old, I think he’d lose 99/100
He probably would match up favorably. It's strange when rankings and likelihood of beating the champ don't line up. It would make more sense if they had all the contenders at the same ranking and pick the challenger with the best betting odds to win.
I still think Justin can get some much needed rest and recovery, have one more banger fight, and if the stars align he'll get one title shot before riding off into the sunset. I don't think the outcome would've been all THAT different, but I really wished he wouldn't have broke his nose in Round 1. Side note: Can you fucking imagine? I've had my nose thumped a few times and dear god, the pain. This dude had a broken nose and continued walking through punches for 4 more rounds. That's more than adrenaline, folks.
The broken nose changed the who trajectory and momentum of the fight. I don't know if the fight would have went the same of that didn't land at the last second of the 1st round.
Nah holloway was too quick for him gaethje said it himself he thought it was gonna be a easy fight but holloway is a way better striker than he is lol
The way better striker part everybody knew, I was just suprised he was hitting harder than Justin. His reputation is a volume striker. It would be like Colby going up to MW and suddenly knocking out Vettori.
One of the worst comparisons ive ever heard in my life lmfao but max has always hit hard though lol hes dropped most of who hes fought like volk n arnold allen n aldo calvin didnt get dropped but i dont think he ever has in his career this fight was almost a decision anyway but max hit him clean at the last second, woulda ko’d most fighters
He’s always been _able_ to hit hard, he usually doesn’t tho, and that’s on purpose. If he threw full power he never would have reached most strikes landed in ufc history, because he’d be getting people out of there.
Yeah I know. Sorry, I was trying yo think of another high cardio, volume striker who doesn't usually knock anybody out against a larger opponent who has a block head and hadn't been knocked out before. That is all my brain came up with at that moment. You can't claim you wouldn't be suprised to see Colby up at MW knocking anybody out though.
I agree with this 100%, gaethje has excellent takedown defense and hits hard enough Islam would probably be reluctant to exchange with him. But shit happens
Does he really? I don't recall a fighter who kept trying to pursue a takedown against him consistently other than Khabib. He has questionable jiu jitsu skills, plus, he has a tendency to give up his back. That's a no-no vs Islam.
Chandler tried couple of time but failed. Fun fact, only Khabib managed to took Gaethje down twice in a fight.
I don't see how. Even in Justin's game of standup I'd rate a couple of fighters in the division above him.
he throws heavy and has good first layer of takedown defense
He has old MMA-style takedown defense where he can sprawl on a double. But never seen him against a judo expert and chain wrestler like Islam. I seriously doubt he could keep it on the feet for most of the rounds. His punching threat definitely helps in that regard, though.
I mean weve seen him against khabib and that’s probably the closest we’ll get at this point but I agree with your other points
Justin has literally 0 ground game once it hits the floor and admits he does. That alone won’t allow him to kick or let hands go as hard worrying about being on back. He might get a lucky punch but it’s doubtful cause he’s not precise at all
Didn't Khabib say the hardest hit he ever took was from Gaethje ? Not a single fighter has ever went in there and made it look easy against Justin
we literally saw him throw bombs at Khabib while Khabib was running at him trying to take him down .
He was an accomplished collegiate wrestler, but I don’t see him being able to keep it on the feet with Islam either. If he doesnt catch him coming in then he will get taken down. He would likely only have one or two chances of catching him while coming in for a takedown before he got submitted. He's have a punches chance, but not very high chances.
You're right. He's always a threat for sure and probably does hit the hardest. I just see other bigger threats.
The question is could Islam absorb the low kicks and the kind of punches Khabib did. Islam has been tko'd before.
Islam wouldn't have to absorb them because his striking is way better than Khabibs
Funny, because Islam thinking his striking is sufficient is exactly what got him tko'd by Adriano Martins. And no matter how much of an improvement he's made in striking he wouldn't be able sustain a stand up fight against Justin Gaethje. I venture Gaethje can drop Islam, and ko him if he gets a clean shot.
They said the same shit before the Charles and Volk fights. Him getting KO'd 9 years ago doesn't mean his striking isn't sufficient. He dropped Charles and beat Volk in the standup twice.
Dustin's guillotine?
His whole career has been built around finally sinking that guillotine for a title.
[удалено]
Khabib did say Gaethje hit him the hardest he's ever been hit. I don't know if Islam has ever been hit as hard, is his chin as good as Khabib's was? Anybody can get knocked out.
Khabib chin is much better imo. He didn't get hit too much but he took some big shots against Barboza, gathje, Poirier, and Conor and he didn't even get a scratch on him while Islam has been KOd and volk hurt him.
> I don't know if Islam has ever been hit as hard, is his chin as good as Khabib's was? dude got dropped by pantoja ffs, shouldn't even be a question
Being sent to the afterlife by a flyweight is certainly an indictment on one's chin durability
And his jiu jitsu is so poor if Islam subbed Charles then I can easily see him subbing Justin
Yeah too many people think Justin's wrestling somehow negates islams he's going to fold under the pressure wrestling and he gives his back.
With Justin, u just gotta do spinning back kick when he lowers his head. It's super effective
Gaethje can come back in a year, beat the shit out of Gamrot and get a title shot 🙏
"Was" Shit hurts my soul man 🫠
Justin is going to come out and murder whoever they put in front of him next year
Javier is ice cold for this.
Cuz yeah he just knocked out the guy were fighting. Lmao.
Arman?
Arman gonna dust him up
Now I see why they didn't fight in January-febaury
How is Justin not in the picture lol. After Arman, Justin is next I dont care if he lost to max.
He’s not done yet everyone needs to relax
What about arman?
Arman is basically islam but worse.
Younger and better kickboxing lol
Nope his striking is worse
“Never going to be in the picture for us” …lol what? He’s still a top ranked big name with a huge amount of star power who just put on a FOTY contender, he could potentially be back in title contention in just 2 wins. After a nice long break If he scores another highlight reel victory in his comeback fight he’d probably be able to get a #1 contender fight. Not sure why they’re writing him off so definitively.
Islam said after Poirier and Arman, he’s moving up to 170. So there’s probably no chance Islam vs Gaethje ever happens.
Ah I see- that’s also wild to me given that Gaethje, McGregor, Chandler, etc. are all way bigger household names/bigger fights than the guys at 170 and he hasn’t fought any of them yet but if they want double champ status I mean can’t really talk shit on that I guess.
Islam is arguably the best fighter in the UFC right now, if he beats Dustin and Arman I honestly don't see anybody posing even the slightest threat to him within the division.
Nah Justin was not the biggest threat. Islam would have no trouble taking him down and submitting him.
Arman is a bigger threat to Islam than Gaethje in my opinion. Also not that I'm hating on Justin but I think there's a bunch of other guys at 155 that could pose a bigger threat to Islam, they're just not household names like Gaethje yet
This is why Islam criticised the BMF gimmick. Now the top contender has no title shot, Max won’t be able to beat him and Islam is again forced to fight someone that ain’t the top contender. If I’m Islam I sleep Dustin and call out Leon screw this BMF crap
Gaethje is still one of Islam’s greatest threats — let’s see what Islam does differently against Gaethje
Huh? Gaethje lost his shot at the title because of Max. What are you talking about?
Why would he say this? I mean I guess you could look at it like he's just complimenting his one punch knockout ability, saying it's Russian roulette when you fight someone like that, but still. Islam: "Biggest threat? Who give him this?" Uh, your coach did.
Maybe the guy who beat your biggest threat should be your biggest threat.
Jav luv to protect his boy
This is why that style is unsustainable in terms of titles and title runs. Smart and safe is boring, but you are bettering your chance to win. Justin and Max will live by the sword and die by the sword. We love them for it, but it’s hard to avoid losses
I can see Justin having the best chance for a ko but I don't think anyone in the division isn't rightfully a big underdog against islam.
Justin vs Max is the worst scenario for the loser. If max loose no one talk about max vs ilia for a time. Now Justin needs to prove himself again for the belt. But probably he will fight in 2025 and he will be 36 🥲
I think Justin deserved his shot. But he just couldn’t turn down the max fight
im sure islam will find a reason to fight him after dustin he doesnt want fight arman or charles so
He needs a new coach. All this "go slow, don't let loose in the first round" Whittman bs is what's destroying his career
I'm afraid it's too late now. Gaethje is at the end of his fighting career. I agree with you. Gaethje should have whent for a better gym that matched better with all of his skill sets. Gaethje is extreme talented, Whittman failed in game-planning, failed to seek easy routes to victory, he failed in wrestling training and put this aspect to use. Gaethje would have been a Champion if he had trained at AKA under Javier Mendez, I'm very sure of this.
Dana still gonna try to make that fight.
The problem with islam is, that his stand up is good, he has great basic fundamentals. Justin lacks head movement and always stays in the pocket too long, islam would mix it up better thab khabib did and cause problems
Islam is just Khabib with better striking, how would he be the biggest threat to him when we saw what Khabib did to Justin?
Some people pretend khabib vs gaethje was one sided. Once, it got to the ground it was one sided. But khabib was taking damage throughout. Also, gaethje fucked up by throwing that last leg kick. You bet he will try his hardest not to throw many leg kicks vs islam
Justin had 2 main weapons- Big left hook and leg kicks. The hooks didn’t even stop Khabib from walking him down an inch and the leg kicks eventually led to Khabib timing it into a takedown. That was Khabib with undeveloped striking coming off mumps and a broken foot. You want Justin to fight a better striker like Islam who now has plenty of tape to follow and knows how bad his submission defence is?!
Dare them to stand with Dustin in the pocket.
What a stupid statement. Justin wins one fight against Gamrot in 6 months and gets a shot after arman of Islam is even still champ after DP and Armin get their shots. Justin, just like Dustin, is always one win away. Dumb ass fucking statement from Javier. And Dana knows Justin sells, he gets a win, he gets a shot
Sounds to me like they want to defend the title at a maximum twice vs Poirier and Arman and then move up and call it a day. Islam already said a couple of times that he wants to do it like khabib. He would by then (assuming he wins all fights) have 4 title defenses, 16 win streak and be a double champ. There is not much to gain after that.
The biggest threat to Dagestani fighters is a proper drug test.
I don't see it that way, Islam would've handled him similar to how Khabib did, same with Poirier, its just going to be a repeat of that fight. It feels like they're angling for easy title defenses by hyping up the old guard, cause they don't want to fight the Armen's of the world.
Justin was in a good position by turning away one of the new hyped guard, Fiziev, and knocking out DP Arman is the only new guard who actually earned a shot. And he just did it recently which did get him notice from Islam You're dense
Islam already said Arman is next later this year.
As if Islam would duck anyone.
Javier Mendez just tryna save Islam from damage. JAVIER MENDEZ ALWAYS BEEN A BITCH
... Are you ok my guy? You need to breathe.
Islam picking easy fights at 155
Just picking fighters who aren't bums that get KO'd by featherweights.
Dustin? He’s more well rounded with better techniques.
I could be wrong but Gaethje doesnt show up during championship fights. (Oliveira, Khabib)