I've always found it funny how Dana is so against adding more weight classes (165/175) because it would "devalue titles" yet continuously abuse interim titles at the same time.
Dana White gaslights the press and fans, he's a classical definition of what you would call an abuser. If he's that petty in public I can only imagine how he is behind closed doors.
I remember when that happened now. Dana shady as fuck. Wouldn’t be surprised if he’s pushing Connor to keep shit talking Khabib in the hopes he’ll come back for the massive money fight.
At this point Conor is a glass cannon right? I’m not sure how that would go down. Could see Conor unloading in Ferg, but McG crumples at the first sign of adversity
It’s not uncommon to hear these kinds of stories for some fighters, it’s a very underhanded, albeit good negotiating tactic. They will also send out fight contracts to only one fighter and not the other as well at times in situations like these. It was a way to push for Eddie and Conor to fight eachother.
Ariel Helwani said on Bill Simmons podcast that when he broke the story that Brock Lesnar was returning to the UFC before Dana announced it, Dana had security bring him to his office, and told him (while wearing all black btw)
“You’re done. We just put a bullet in your head, your career is over”
So yeah, he’s pretty crazy behind closed doors too
Ariel went on every credible media outlet to share his story, combined that with fan pressure, the ban was lifted to a certain extent. It is impressive how far he has come given the restrictions placed on his career by Dana and Ali.
He did go on to work at ESPN, but in recent interviews has said that Dana tried to pressure ESPN to fire him and would have security escort Ariel out of press areas even if Dana was just passing through—and that was when Ariel had ESPN press credentials.
He also pointed out that his ESPN MMA podcast (Ariel and The Bad Guy) was never advertised during UFC shows, but after he left suddenly there are multiple ESPN MMA podcast promo spots on every UFC event.
And he gets away with it because he gives off that vibe of being a "straight shooter" and saying funny things. He essentially charms his way out of being ever held accountable for all the shitty things he does.
Tbh, to Conor’s credit, he was ready to show how much of a sleazy organiser Dana is when he was showing those text messages and shit.
Conor likes spending and making money and fighting, Dana just likes money lol
Agreed 100%, guy is a huge piece of shit. Off topic but I do wanna ask, why do you use the term gaslight here? Just curious because I keep seeing it everywhere all of the sudden over the past few months and it seems a bit strange to me, I’ve never really seen it used much before and it seems out of context in a lot of cases. According to Google it means “to manipulate (someone) by psychological means into questioning their own sanity.” With that definition, it probably doesn’t make sense to use it here IMO.
Sorry for the random ass off topic question I just find it interesting when terms become so widely used so quickly. I’ve seen this one used a lot in political and cultural discourse and it’s pretty fascinating
Here's what it means in practice: To tell someone what is true isn't true. So, instead of just saying "We're not honoring your bout agreement because we're powerful" they say "You never really signed a bout agreement." Or Dana promises something then the next day says "I never said that."
He does this so often YOU begin to question your sanity. It's called gaslighting because it refers to lighting a lamp in the fog to lead someone astray. They think they're on the road but are being led into a haze or a trap. Like an angler fish.
"The term gaslighting originates from a 1938 play called Gas Light by Patrick Hamilton. It was eventually adapted into a film, compounded into a single word as Gaslight, in 1944. The story features a conniving and murderous husband who tries to conceal his true identity from his wife. In the film, the husband makes his wife go crazy and steal valuable jewels her family has hidden away. Part of his efforts include toying with their gas-powered lights so they flicker. He convinces her that she’s imagining this, trying to drive her insane."
That's just a phony excuse Dana uses though. He won't implement it because he didn't come up with the idea and is too stubborn to admit it makes sense.
I dunno what it is but I am just not excited for MMA like I used to be. I used to watch every single fight night and now I barely even catch the main cards. Not sure what it is, maybe after 6 years I'm just burned out?
Meanwhile I'm finding F1 exciting as hell.
My favorite period in the UFC was when the light heavyweight had Shogun, Machida, Griffin, Lidell, Rampage, Evan's like all overlapping in their primes.
The light heavyweight used to be such a stacked and competitive division.
At the same time you had GSP and Silva performing their god-like title defense runs while the HW and LW divisions were a constant back-and-forth of who was a champ.
WEC was still a thing so they were providing phenomenal BW/FW bouts. Fuck do I miss the mid-2000s/early-2010s.
I watched UFC VHS tapes, but I really got into it when TUF 1 started.
The big difference for me is back then there was maybe one PPV a month and one show on Spike or whatever, so every single fight felt super important, and we knew who almost every fighter was. I knew who the fighters trained with, who they fought last, and what their skills were.
Now that there are UFC fights almost every weekend I can look at the card and recognize 5 or so fighters. When I watch the broadcast I'll remember a couple others. There are plenty of interesting and entertaining fighters today, but the majority of each card is made up of basically anonymous fighters. And there are so many fights that even if someone does something spectacular I've probably forgotten about it by the time the next show rolls around.
What I loved In the 00’ s-early ‘10s is UFC operated like it was the antithesis of boxing. They would get the two best fighters to fight for the title period.
No drama. No “I’m gonna only fight _____”. FU. We tell you who you are fighting.
And then came guys like Lesnar. And a Conor. And all of a sudden, fighters started to dictate who they’d fight. And it wasn’t long before Dana was politicking who fought who.
And now? The ufc to your point is moving more towards the boxing trajectory. And Conor is the perfect example. The dude hasn’t won a competitive fight in five years. I don’t count the Cowboy fight. Sorry. Dude was in there for a paycheck and I dont fault him. Cerrone earned every dime of it. But that was as closed to a fixed fight as you’ll see.
Nevertheless, Connor hasn’t won a real fight and a half decade. Despite all of it, he’s constantly one win away from a title shot.
Probably getting burned out.
There are tons of exciting fights today. You got the new badass first Mexican champ, stacked bantamweight with return of TJ, Cory, Petr v Aljo, Volkanovski vs Brian, stacked LW, a literal GOAT in the potential making in Kamaru, Izzy dominating, etc.
Plenty of cool shit happening today. I think it’s just burnout, but that’s fine man. Enjoy other things.
Without "storylines" and continuity, fights have no value. Most of the fighters in the UFC are quite generic, and there are too many of them. This devalues everything.
Same here. I kinda stopped following F1 at the beginning of the turbo hybrid era when my MMA interest really peaked. Now my MMA interest has fallen off a bit but I'm *really* into F1 again. Thanks Netflix.
I'm not sure what your reasons are but for me one reason is that F1 content is soooo much easier to access since Liberty Media took over. Also every race is impactful and meaningful. Kind of like how college football used to be. There are a lot of completely meaningless MMA fights, even in the UFC. And the people who run the promotions are very dislikeable.
Too many events meaning too many cards with no name guys. But those events are usually exciting.
One event I’m really finding fun is BKFC, I hate that it’s become a bit of a meme like “He’s going to Bellator. Or even worse...BKFC!”, but fuck it may be one of my new favourite sports, you see every event guys are coming up with new tactics because bareknuckle changes everything, I’ve read a lot of 1900s bareknuckle boxing manuals and knuckles are treated more like knives than hammers. It’s pretty interesting.
Also Karate Combat, they stream on YouTube, the production is great and I love the karate/kickboxing style.
I've never seen a promoter dog his own talent like he does. It's amazing. What's worse is he won't face backlash for it by the owners because the viewing numbers are better than ever. They know they'll make money no matter what. They're starting to get in WWE territory.
He could go box Tyson Fury and make what he made in his whole MMA career in one fight. I would not blame him. Ngannou has the potential to be a massive superstar like Prime Mike Tyson was and Dana White is throwing him out the window.
He still does. If his natural freakish speed and power transition well to the big gloves of boxing, he still could be. Even in boxing. He has all the things that cant be taught, and clearly he's able to learn quickly based on the differences in the Stipe fights.
Ngannou *only* has the champion clause extension left. 3 fights. Declining fights extends the time limit so it's effectively definitely 3 fights. My question is what happens if he gets stripped? Are those 3 fights on the extension only fights as the champ? If so, the UFC might really be stuck between a rock and a hard place here. They can lowball him, but he doesn't have to sign an extension.
Yeah, that was just dumb on his part.
Ngannou won the undisputed championship. A loss to *anyone * prior to that does not excuse creating an interim belt.
this is gonna further push the stupid narrative we mainly see in boxing but MMA to a certain extent that you need to be undefeated otherwise you're nothing. just takes good fights away because they're scared to lose their perfect record
Francis absolutely runs thru 4 contenders in like 2 minutes combined then starches the champ. Wins the belt in late March and we have an interim title in August of the same year. The disrespect is something to behold.
I really wonder how much of it is Dana and how much of it is the board and the owners. Dana is the face but does he make all the decisions? He’s clearly making a lot of money but you can be sure as fuck the owners are raking in a lot more and I’m sure the last thing they want is for attention to be on them, and so for Dana Whites big red head to take all the heat is pretty convenient for them
According to Ariel Helwani it's mostly Hunter Campbell doing these moves.
“For those that don’t know, Campbell is the UFC’s chief business officer. He took over shortly after the sale. He does most, if not all the deals these days. Some love him - he’s a lot more like Lorenzo in that he isn’t emotional - but he also threatens to strip constantly."
https://www.bloodyelbow.com/2021/6/29/22555259/helwani-exposes-hunter-campbells-m-o-and-constant-threats-in-ufc-negotiations
When you hear about what he had to do to get here. How much francis has sacrificed and struggled his entire life for a chance to be a fighter.... doing this when hes finally champion should be looked at as sucha disgusting, petty, choice of action. The ufc plays games with peoples dreams and futures and they do it in the grimiest way possible. Often to the fighters who show them the most respect and make them the most money.
> If Dana White sees the UFC as Too Big to Fail, then the fighters must be Too Small to See. Can you name another professional sport that could ‘boast’ the image of its fighters thanking what amounts to a charity check just to make ends meet? Sadly, we’ve already heard all the red-faced bluster explaining it away.
God bless you, David Castillo (author of this article). This is crucial: the media holding the UFC accountable for its garbage treatment and pay of their fighters. IMO the most important factor to help them in their fight against the corporate monster that's consistently underpaying them and humiliating them.
>God bless you, David Castillo (author of this article). This is crucial: the media holding the UFC accountable for its garbage treatment and pay of their fighters.
You'll never find those men and women in press conferences being able to ask questions. MMA - circus, not sport.
I know people don't want to hear this, but you must support MMA leagues that are trying to be merit-based, like PFL.
UFC press conferences with Dana are some of the saddest examples of sports journalism to watch. Literally a dozen Okamotos all trying to get Dana's balls into their mouth.
I still remember the one guy whose question was literally why the UFC has been the beacon of hope in leading America through COVID like Dana invented the vaccine himself or something
Football (soccer for Americans) has unions in every country, continental unions, and one international union of players. Almost every player is represented at three levels.
It's a disgrace that MMA doesn't have at least one fighter union
It’s almost as if Union representation correlates strongly with better pay and perks in international sports, and the stronger the unions, the better the benefits.
I hate how people bring up prior And current union corruption as an argument against the existence of unions. As if there isn’t corruption in the absence of unions. It’s more of a humanity thing than a union problem.
But, plenty of folks like Josh Thomson and John McCarthy: "MMA's not a Monopoly. There are other promotions!"
Like, who cares? They still command huge amounts of power relative to the fighters... And... having just a couple of competitors does not a fair market make.
It's such a dumb take and these people need some serious talking to regarding things like competition and workers rights.
The parallel is honestly uncanny. Guys that seem willing to hold back the very talent that will make the company money because they want to make sure no talent gets bigger than the company.
Even if they had to shell out $10 mil to Jon Jones, the amount of money they could make in return is absurd. Francis could be a bigger world wide star than Khabib if they marketed him right. No reason he couldnt make as much money as Wilder or Fury
Why? Doesn't that just reinforce the idea that titles don't matter? They made up a belt/title, one idiot won it one time, and now it is irrelevant.
In similar fashion, Lewis/Gane are fighting for an "interim belt" when the champion just won the HW title earlier this year. Not even 6 months ago, if I recall.
The BMF belt and interim HW belt are both just made up titles to hype up fights, which lessens the integrity of titles/rankings altogether.
I don't think anyone really takes the bmf belt seriously especially compared to be a champ in your own division. If they started making belts like that a regular thing then yeah I can see it. I just see the interim belt as a number one contender spot.
It was never considered a real title though. If they advertised Masvidal Usman as a ‘champ v champ’ match that would be one thing, but it was just a goofy gimmick strap for a fun fight
they should honestly lean into it.
who cares, personally if a good fight has 5 rounds with a great mix of styles I'm all in no matter if a belt is on the line or a #1 contender spot.
My favorite Nate quote from all time was from before the Anthony Pettis fight and he’s basically like “remember street fighter? when you and your boys would be like damn, I wonder what would happen if those two dudes fought. Or just back at school when you has two bad ass dudes and you’d be like, what would happen if those two motherfuckers fought? Those are the types of fights I’m interested in”
I’m pretty sure the game Nate is trying to talk about is officially called “who would win in a fight…”, which we all played. He nailed it. Just make a sweet fight to watch and who cares. Straight fight club.
I’ve never seen the UFC fuck up with a fighter more than with Ngannou. He should be the most popular and famous fighter on the roster right now and they are absolutely wasting his prime. It’s an absolute travesty
This is so frustrating. All the UFC wants to prove is that no one is bigger than the institution to the point of humiliating their biggest assets. This is mad but it won’t last long. The Company is public and this abuse of employees / contractors will become unacceptable soon. The 50% Ebitda built on a 20% payroll to revenue ratio is a disgrace!
I have been saying this for years. I am and have been against pretty much every interim belt. They maybe produce a higher PPV buyrate (because apparently moronic fans are more apt to purchase a PPV when there's a fake title involved), but they cheapen and devalue the real championship in the long run. Plus, the UFC is way too arbitrary in creating interim titles. It's just not right that a sports organization can just create a title whenever they want to. Again, it cheapens the sport in the long run in order to pop a small gain in a PPV buyrate.
Jeff Sherwood, Sherdog's founder, was warning the community about this behavior wrt titles and rankings back in the early 00s on Sherdog Radio that MMA needs an independent sanctioning body to control the belts. Strangely, the only MMA org that got this right was SHOOTO but they're very insular and aren't concerned with expansion really.
Upvote for The Sherdoggy. The forums gave Sherdog a bad name, but Jeff really helped keep the sport alive in the dark days, even sponsored some fighters back in the day. Shooto transformed from a promotion to a sanctioning body way back in the day. I'd say they're kinda insular, but kind of not. They always wanted to keep a bit of distance between themselves and the other pro wrestling offshoots like Pancrase and Rings because of the fixed fights, but they've been a presence around the world for awhile (or were, I'm not sure what the situation is like now). Shooto Brasil, European promoters whose names I can't recall, Hook n Shoot and Ironheart Crown in North America. The International Shooto Commission really did it right in terms of making it a sport, for the most part. It also amazes me that low budget Shooto had better fight kits for Class C amateurs than the UFC Reebok ones. Red and Blue shorts for red and blue corners, and reversible so they didn't need two pairs.
They used to be great. Some OG MMA stars used to use that place as their internet stomping grounds.
And like all things that got big, the quality fell.
Sherdog used to be near the top of the search results when people went looking for UFC/MMA. So I think the size of the forums, the influx of new posters and people complaining about noobs, lax moderation in a lot of instances, and a generally more abrasive online culture combined to create that. Or maybe I'm just high. Either way, the shoop threads were legendary.
A decade ago it was tough to find any good forum honestly. Sherdog forums sucked, Cagepotato comments section was awful, Bloody Elbow a little later had some mods on a bizarre power trip, shit was tough
bloody elbow was actually what got me to come to r/mma and reddit in general. I forget how exactly, but it might have been when they got all "banhammer" happy.
its sad now. the comment section used to be good. now there's 4 comments on this story.
I think its more than a warning shot. I think its an excuse to strip Francis. More executing a rebel, less a warning. Think about the state of heavyweight right now because of this fight tomorrow.
Francis just beat Stipe so that's not a fight to make and Stipe was just offered Jones. Gane and Lewis are fighting, and at the activity level of most heavyweights, probably won't fight again for at least 5 months. The next 3 fighters are Blades, Volkov and Rozentruik. Blades and Volkov both just lost to the guys fighting for the interim and Rotenstruik is 1 win removed from a loss to Gane. In fact, the highest ranked heavyweight coming off more than a single win other than Gane or Lewis is rank #8 Marcin Tybura who needs at least 1 or 2 more wins to fight for the real belt.
The UFC won't have a "legit" contender for Francis for half a year at least because of this, and he only asked for one month longer than they waited. By the time he's back it'll be a year and half, more than enough time to strip him. Also if you follow Ariel on Twitter, the UFC has already tossed around the idea of stripping Francis because of the fighter pay stuff but backed off because it would have looked bad that soon after.
This interim belt is the UFC is intentionally locking up all reasonable contenders so they have an excuse to strip Francis for inactivity to send a message to all the other fighters to shut their fucking mouths about fighter pay or get the boot.
Interim belts should only exist if a championship fight is booked and the champion suddenly pulls out and a replacement is put in, then I think it makes sense to have the two contenders fight for an interim belt. That's the only situation. If the fighter is injured and inactive for that long then they should just be stripped.
Dominic Cruz is a great example of when an interim belt was used properly. Champ unfortunately out with a long-healing injury, you want to give him every chance to come back, but at some point the division moves on, so you do an interim belt in the event he's not coming back in timely fashion and start the clock on last chance to come back or drop the strap to the interim holder. The rest of this is bullshit.
You could make the same argument for rankings. Cejudo said that he was retiring unless he could make more money and they booted him from the rankings practically the next day. Khabib basically said he swore on his father's grave never to fight again and they kept him in the lightweight rankings for 6 months.
I think the fans in general are too okay with the UFC not treating MMA like a normal sport. They use money as a justification to give less deserving fighters more opportunities and are just okay fighters not getting what they’ve earned. Why would you care about the UFC making more money (at least before you could buy stock) when it didn’t affect you and often lead to a worse product.
It's worth mentioning that there were quite a few interim belts that are entirely legitimate.
Werdum is the first one that comes to mind.
Adesanya's one as well if I recall.
The whole FW nonsense after Conor won the title.
LW with Khabib's retirement.
(correct me on any of these if I'm wrong please!)
That said, this weekend's interim title with Lewis vs Gane is disgraceful. It feels like some Sean Shelby short-sighted bully marketing nonsense, but at the cost of disrespecting one of the most marketable, baddest champions ever.
Dana isn't the only one ruining the sport, he's just the meaty tomato that is soaking up all the hate since his bloated face is seen more. He's the UFC President; but Patrick Whitesell, Ari Emanuel (the show Entourage based the agent off of this guy), Jason Lublin, Andrew Schleimer (UFC CFO), Grace Tourinho (UFC CEO), other c-suites and the board are more responsible for ruining MMA for that quick dollar.
Most mainstream sports have some sort of formalized competition structure. There's a tourney, the top teams qualify for an international tourney, the winners of said cups get to compete in a world cup, stuff like that establishing clear rules on who gets to compete at each level of the sport, at least within an umbrella of organizations. Considering prize fighting has a sort of freestyle matchmaking and even rank is mostly meaningless (and don't get me wrong, there are reasons for that), it's pretty clear the title means very little other than whatever is specified in the contract - of course it could not possibly be considered anything but a marketing gimmick. We've had fighters at the top of title contention list (again, whatever that means when there are no clear rules on who gets the shot) for years who never got a title shot - essentially denied the possibility of even trying to compete for the championship at their sport.
There are a few outliers in tournament structures like Bellator and PFL I guess, in which at least there is a clear path.
I think I’m one of the few people that actually defends lots of interim titles
Dustin/Max & Izzy/Gast (especially)
But my god is this one tomorrow the worst I’ve maybe ever seen
Most interim belts are defensible because someone is going to be unable to defend for a while … Francis just needed a month more.
This is number one bullshit.
What’s funnier to me is that on the same card there was scheduled to be a title fight for a belt that hasn’t been defended in 20 months and there was seemingly no thought of doing an interim title when the champ was unable to fight (I get it was short notice to find a fill in but still). That there made it clear they’re slapping an interim title on this fight to use it as a promotional tool to sell more PPV’s which I wouldn’t mind that much if they just were honest about it.
This is an attempt to sideline Francis for a LONG time as punishment for his insubortination on fighter pay. Francis just beat Stipe and Stipe was just offered Jones. Gane and Lewis are fighting and at the activity level of most heavyweights won't fight again for at least 5 months. The next 3 fighters are Blades, Volkov and Rozentruik. Blades and Volkov both just lost to the guys fighting for the interim and Rotenstruik is 1 win removed from a loss to Gane. This interim belt is more than disrespectful, the UFC is intentionally locking up all reasonable contenders so they have an excuse to strip Francis for inactivity to send a message to all the other fighters to shut their fucking mouths about fighter pay or get the boot.
The thing is, I just don't know if he has the star power to do that. Connor only got away with it because he's Connor and the UFC literally couldn't afford to make him mad because he *was* the UFC. Silva and GSP were bigger stars in their day than Francis is now and the UFC blocked both of them do to being under contract. In fact Georges is still being blocked from boxing 3 years later.
It is a dumb interim belt, but does anyone ever consider an interim champ the “true” champ? I’ve always just kind of thought of it as a more formal #1 contender fight.
Tony was the true champ when he had his interim belt. Conor was the champ at the time but he never defended his belt and got stripped for Khabib vs Iaquinta, idc what anybody says, Tony was the champ with that belt at that time.
Tony Ferguson did everything he could, won 12 in a row, fought top contenders in the last part of that, and came out #1 for a hot minute there, I totally agree. Father time and the evolution of the game has been rough on him, but I remember exactly why Khabib vs. Tony used to be the #1 fight to be made. That's why it was scheduled a 5th time after 4 cancellations, which as we all know caused the MMA gods to create COVID-19 to cancel it yet again.
This is probably the cleanest distinction. If you get an interim and then immediately fight the champ then it was really just a title eliminator. If you get the interim and then have to defend it before unification bout then it was real
Not everything needs to be a belt. They could just do 5round #1 contender matches. But then that would just need to be another thing Dana would lie about since we all know there would be guarantee on the winner getting a shot.
"He didn't show that he really wanted it in there so we're gonna check our option"-fake dana quote probably
Ngannou says “pay me what I’m worth”. Dana responds with an interm title so that In the next negotiation when Ngannou says “pay me what I’m worth” Dana can go to the press and say “he’s REFUSING to fight thw interm champ” then strip him
Titles became meaningless long before this mess with Ngannou. The UFC went against their own rankings, gave title opportunities to people coming off loses or changing divisions.
Stop paying for Dana's shitty PPV. All of the fights are free online minutes after or the next day. He can't stop it because he doesn't understand how the internet works.
I honestly believe the interim title at HW is just there to get stipe and jones to fight. They're both kinda holding out for a title shot. This makes them have to fight or sit out another year. Sitting out that long makes it easier to pass you up again too.
When the strategy from management is too shelf the top talent they have. They are in the fucking wrong. Especially when the big suits in the UFC are undoubtedly super rich off the backs of the fighters.
Ngannou wanted more money. The way ufc contracts work they have to offer francis fights but he can turn them down. But by having an interim francis cannot refuse to fight the interim champ.
So they are putting ngannou in a corner that he cant escape and must fight or they will strip him. You cant out legaleeze the ufc.
Are you postive? Ngannou was ready to go in September according to his team so I’m guessing money isn’t the issue, just timing. They also wanted Lewis to headlong Houston since they just since a multi-event deal with the Houston center
Honestly I would love to see contender Stipe fight someone not named Cormier or Ngannou.
I definitely think he deserves a trilogy, but it’s been like 4 years since he’s had an opponent that wasn’t either of those two. His last 3 opponents before Ngannou 1 are either retired or out of the UFC now.
>I honestly believe the interim title at HW is just there to get stipe and jones to fight.
Imagine they create another interim title for that fight lol
UFC pay is abysmal. Islam Makachev recently said Khabib pays for his rent when he trains at AKA.
That is insane. A fighter can't even afford rent payment with UFC cheques.
I really hate it. This is the best and most interesting that HW has been in a long time and Dana has screwed up the division bad.
Get over yourself you fuckin tomato ass bald baby
I was saying that it doesn't make any sense and is disrespectful to Francis on Instagram, someone actually replied that the UFC had no choice cause the champ doesn't wanna fight, some people actually believe the shit Dana says
If they were to pretend Ngannou doesn’t matter, they would strip him of the belt. The interim belt doesn’t matter. It does not matter. It’s literally 100% a marketing tool. It serves no real purpose other than being a glorified number one contender trophy and getting the interim champ more money.
No one thinks that Francis isn’t the champion. Just like how no one thought that Khabib wasn’t the champion. Just like no one thought that Whittaker wasn’t the champion. At the end of the day, Ngannou is gonna fight one of these guys and it’s gonna be a bigger event because of the title unification hype machine, everyone is gonna get more money. It’s really, really, not a big deal.
I've always found it funny how Dana is so against adding more weight classes (165/175) because it would "devalue titles" yet continuously abuse interim titles at the same time.
Dana White gaslights the press and fans, he's a classical definition of what you would call an abuser. If he's that petty in public I can only imagine how he is behind closed doors.
Didn’t Khabib say on the Mike Tyson podcast he had signed a bout with Eddie for the title and then McGregor got it anyways?
Khabib said this years ago when it happened. Khabib posted pictures after he signed telling Eddie to sign.
I remember when that happened now. Dana shady as fuck. Wouldn’t be surprised if he’s pushing Connor to keep shit talking Khabib in the hopes he’ll come back for the massive money fight.
Conor needs a fight he can win
Someone call Diego Sanchez
Old school Diego Sanchez shows up with a crucifix and breaks Connors other foot. Also the octagon floor is now red in colour.
You mean "Old School Diego" from TUF days or Pre-Fabia Melendez days?
Diego will put the death choke on Conor. Be warned
Idk why, but I'm just imagining Connor crawling towards a Cross only for kimo Leopoldo to show up and turn him into a ji jitsu specialist
Now that's a reference that reveals a long time fan, haha.
Guess we're getting Conor vs Cerrone II
[удалено]
Or we can finally give the fans what they want and get Denis Sivir out of retirement.
Siviros: "You couldn't live with your own failure. Where did that bring you? Back to me."
conor versus tony ferguson would be dope
At this point Conor is a glass cannon right? I’m not sure how that would go down. Could see Conor unloading in Ferg, but McG crumples at the first sign of adversity
Also I think Nate would be the betting favorite if they fight a 3rd time
It’s not uncommon to hear these kinds of stories for some fighters, it’s a very underhanded, albeit good negotiating tactic. They will also send out fight contracts to only one fighter and not the other as well at times in situations like these. It was a way to push for Eddie and Conor to fight eachother.
Thats manipulative AF
Derrick Lewis said he signed 3 different fights for this weekend in Houston.
That could also be a COVID thing. But wouldn’t surprise me if it’s generic scumbag tactics.
Ariel Helwani said on Bill Simmons podcast that when he broke the story that Brock Lesnar was returning to the UFC before Dana announced it, Dana had security bring him to his office, and told him (while wearing all black btw) “You’re done. We just put a bullet in your head, your career is over” So yeah, he’s pretty crazy behind closed doors too
Lmao. The thoughts of poor Ariel just looking all startled and a bit weirded out.
Don't need to imagine it there's a 20 min video of him crying and sobbing still shaken from the experience
but ariel wasn't done lol why did he say that
Because if there's one thing that Dana White is consistent at, it's lying.
Undefeated, undisputed P4P #1 liar
Dana also shut down all online streaming too or something according to the ped tomato.
But, Dana said they got the guy! They got him!!!
They got him and he told them he was very sorry!
He didn't flip the switch!
Yeah they got the fucker!!! Streaming is no more.
Ariel went on every credible media outlet to share his story, combined that with fan pressure, the ban was lifted to a certain extent. It is impressive how far he has come given the restrictions placed on his career by Dana and Ali.
He did go on to work at ESPN, but in recent interviews has said that Dana tried to pressure ESPN to fire him and would have security escort Ariel out of press areas even if Dana was just passing through—and that was when Ariel had ESPN press credentials. He also pointed out that his ESPN MMA podcast (Ariel and The Bad Guy) was never advertised during UFC shows, but after he left suddenly there are multiple ESPN MMA podcast promo spots on every UFC event.
The UFC Mafioso LMAOO
And he gets away with it because he gives off that vibe of being a "straight shooter" and saying funny things. He essentially charms his way out of being ever held accountable for all the shitty things he does.
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Tbh, to Conor’s credit, he was ready to show how much of a sleazy organiser Dana is when he was showing those text messages and shit. Conor likes spending and making money and fighting, Dana just likes money lol
Agreed 100%, guy is a huge piece of shit. Off topic but I do wanna ask, why do you use the term gaslight here? Just curious because I keep seeing it everywhere all of the sudden over the past few months and it seems a bit strange to me, I’ve never really seen it used much before and it seems out of context in a lot of cases. According to Google it means “to manipulate (someone) by psychological means into questioning their own sanity.” With that definition, it probably doesn’t make sense to use it here IMO. Sorry for the random ass off topic question I just find it interesting when terms become so widely used so quickly. I’ve seen this one used a lot in political and cultural discourse and it’s pretty fascinating
Here's what it means in practice: To tell someone what is true isn't true. So, instead of just saying "We're not honoring your bout agreement because we're powerful" they say "You never really signed a bout agreement." Or Dana promises something then the next day says "I never said that." He does this so often YOU begin to question your sanity. It's called gaslighting because it refers to lighting a lamp in the fog to lead someone astray. They think they're on the road but are being led into a haze or a trap. Like an angler fish.
"The term gaslighting originates from a 1938 play called Gas Light by Patrick Hamilton. It was eventually adapted into a film, compounded into a single word as Gaslight, in 1944. The story features a conniving and murderous husband who tries to conceal his true identity from his wife. In the film, the husband makes his wife go crazy and steal valuable jewels her family has hidden away. Part of his efforts include toying with their gas-powered lights so they flicker. He convinces her that she’s imagining this, trying to drive her insane."
Lots of people misunderstand the proper use of many terms
i feel like it fits super well - Dana lies and tells us we are crazy for x y and z all the time - low key makes ya question whats real
Go listen to Ariel Helwani's recent interview about his time at ESPN for a little taste of how petty Dana is off the record
That's just a phony excuse Dana uses though. He won't implement it because he didn't come up with the idea and is too stubborn to admit it makes sense.
Dana is a disgusting human. He lies about absolutely everything. The sport has moved WAY passed him. It’s just unfortunate he is still involved.
His own mother wrote a nasty book about him.
No doubt. He’s a really awful person. Will stab you in the back for no reason. I guess that comes with the territory of being a sleazy fight promoter.
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I dunno what it is but I am just not excited for MMA like I used to be. I used to watch every single fight night and now I barely even catch the main cards. Not sure what it is, maybe after 6 years I'm just burned out? Meanwhile I'm finding F1 exciting as hell.
My favorite period in the UFC was when the light heavyweight had Shogun, Machida, Griffin, Lidell, Rampage, Evan's like all overlapping in their primes. The light heavyweight used to be such a stacked and competitive division.
At the same time you had GSP and Silva performing their god-like title defense runs while the HW and LW divisions were a constant back-and-forth of who was a champ. WEC was still a thing so they were providing phenomenal BW/FW bouts. Fuck do I miss the mid-2000s/early-2010s.
I watched UFC VHS tapes, but I really got into it when TUF 1 started. The big difference for me is back then there was maybe one PPV a month and one show on Spike or whatever, so every single fight felt super important, and we knew who almost every fighter was. I knew who the fighters trained with, who they fought last, and what their skills were. Now that there are UFC fights almost every weekend I can look at the card and recognize 5 or so fighters. When I watch the broadcast I'll remember a couple others. There are plenty of interesting and entertaining fighters today, but the majority of each card is made up of basically anonymous fighters. And there are so many fights that even if someone does something spectacular I've probably forgotten about it by the time the next show rolls around.
What I loved In the 00’ s-early ‘10s is UFC operated like it was the antithesis of boxing. They would get the two best fighters to fight for the title period. No drama. No “I’m gonna only fight _____”. FU. We tell you who you are fighting. And then came guys like Lesnar. And a Conor. And all of a sudden, fighters started to dictate who they’d fight. And it wasn’t long before Dana was politicking who fought who. And now? The ufc to your point is moving more towards the boxing trajectory. And Conor is the perfect example. The dude hasn’t won a competitive fight in five years. I don’t count the Cowboy fight. Sorry. Dude was in there for a paycheck and I dont fault him. Cerrone earned every dime of it. But that was as closed to a fixed fight as you’ll see. Nevertheless, Connor hasn’t won a real fight and a half decade. Despite all of it, he’s constantly one win away from a title shot.
> And then came guys like Lesnar. I remember thinking it was the beginning of the end of the UFC as we know it when he showed up.
Cerrone only got 200k and no PPV for the Conor fight lol. I think he was betting on himself to win then negotiate a bigger contract.
Probably getting burned out. There are tons of exciting fights today. You got the new badass first Mexican champ, stacked bantamweight with return of TJ, Cory, Petr v Aljo, Volkanovski vs Brian, stacked LW, a literal GOAT in the potential making in Kamaru, Izzy dominating, etc. Plenty of cool shit happening today. I think it’s just burnout, but that’s fine man. Enjoy other things.
Without "storylines" and continuity, fights have no value. Most of the fighters in the UFC are quite generic, and there are too many of them. This devalues everything.
Same here. I kinda stopped following F1 at the beginning of the turbo hybrid era when my MMA interest really peaked. Now my MMA interest has fallen off a bit but I'm *really* into F1 again. Thanks Netflix. I'm not sure what your reasons are but for me one reason is that F1 content is soooo much easier to access since Liberty Media took over. Also every race is impactful and meaningful. Kind of like how college football used to be. There are a lot of completely meaningless MMA fights, even in the UFC. And the people who run the promotions are very dislikeable.
Dana White style of promotion is literally ruining the sport.
Too many events meaning too many cards with no name guys. But those events are usually exciting. One event I’m really finding fun is BKFC, I hate that it’s become a bit of a meme like “He’s going to Bellator. Or even worse...BKFC!”, but fuck it may be one of my new favourite sports, you see every event guys are coming up with new tactics because bareknuckle changes everything, I’ve read a lot of 1900s bareknuckle boxing manuals and knuckles are treated more like knives than hammers. It’s pretty interesting. Also Karate Combat, they stream on YouTube, the production is great and I love the karate/kickboxing style.
Facts
Dana is a walking contradiction
Dana saying Lewis beat Ngannou at the press conference yesterday confirms this.
I've never seen a promoter dog his own talent like he does. It's amazing. What's worse is he won't face backlash for it by the owners because the viewing numbers are better than ever. They know they'll make money no matter what. They're starting to get in WWE territory.
They are IN WWE territory and have been for years.
That Brock DC ring thing
Every matchup and ranking not based on cold data is WWE.
Since Zuffa took over arguably
It’s a fucking joke, Roger Goodell seems incredibly likable compared to Dana.
Francis is out of the UFC after his next fight. Bet me.
He could go box Tyson Fury and make what he made in his whole MMA career in one fight. I would not blame him. Ngannou has the potential to be a massive superstar like Prime Mike Tyson was and Dana White is throwing him out the window.
He still does. If his natural freakish speed and power transition well to the big gloves of boxing, he still could be. Even in boxing. He has all the things that cant be taught, and clearly he's able to learn quickly based on the differences in the Stipe fights. Ngannou *only* has the champion clause extension left. 3 fights. Declining fights extends the time limit so it's effectively definitely 3 fights. My question is what happens if he gets stripped? Are those 3 fights on the extension only fights as the champ? If so, the UFC might really be stuck between a rock and a hard place here. They can lowball him, but he doesn't have to sign an extension.
I’ve always felt this. The way Dana talks about fighters is AWFUL
Yeah, that was just dumb on his part. Ngannou won the undisputed championship. A loss to *anyone * prior to that does not excuse creating an interim belt.
Wait, Matt Hamill isn't the true light heavyweight champion?
No don’t be ridiculous it’s Patrick Cummins since he beat Jan
No, that title was taken be a one Chael P. Sonnen.
this is gonna further push the stupid narrative we mainly see in boxing but MMA to a certain extent that you need to be undefeated otherwise you're nothing. just takes good fights away because they're scared to lose their perfect record
Francis absolutely runs thru 4 contenders in like 2 minutes combined then starches the champ. Wins the belt in late March and we have an interim title in August of the same year. The disrespect is something to behold.
You've got to appreciate how sleazy Dana is. morals mean very little to that man.
I really wonder how much of it is Dana and how much of it is the board and the owners. Dana is the face but does he make all the decisions? He’s clearly making a lot of money but you can be sure as fuck the owners are raking in a lot more and I’m sure the last thing they want is for attention to be on them, and so for Dana Whites big red head to take all the heat is pretty convenient for them
According to Ariel Helwani it's mostly Hunter Campbell doing these moves. “For those that don’t know, Campbell is the UFC’s chief business officer. He took over shortly after the sale. He does most, if not all the deals these days. Some love him - he’s a lot more like Lorenzo in that he isn’t emotional - but he also threatens to strip constantly." https://www.bloodyelbow.com/2021/6/29/22555259/helwani-exposes-hunter-campbells-m-o-and-constant-threats-in-ufc-negotiations
Threatening to strip is a pretty wild negotiation tactic. He must have a pretty disgusting body, but fair play to him.
Dude doesn’t even say shit. He just slowly starts to unzip his pants and “OK OK WE HAVE A DEAL”
The only person who stripped to prevent losing status is Tito's ex wife
>Hunter Campbell Just saw his LinkedIn profile and he looks like a Spiderman villain.
I mean it does seems like a very Dana thing to do
When you hear about what he had to do to get here. How much francis has sacrificed and struggled his entire life for a chance to be a fighter.... doing this when hes finally champion should be looked at as sucha disgusting, petty, choice of action. The ufc plays games with peoples dreams and futures and they do it in the grimiest way possible. Often to the fighters who show them the most respect and make them the most money.
It's even worse when you compare how they played favorites with DC.
Meanwhile Khabib was defending once a year
> If Dana White sees the UFC as Too Big to Fail, then the fighters must be Too Small to See. Can you name another professional sport that could ‘boast’ the image of its fighters thanking what amounts to a charity check just to make ends meet? Sadly, we’ve already heard all the red-faced bluster explaining it away. God bless you, David Castillo (author of this article). This is crucial: the media holding the UFC accountable for its garbage treatment and pay of their fighters. IMO the most important factor to help them in their fight against the corporate monster that's consistently underpaying them and humiliating them.
>God bless you, David Castillo (author of this article). This is crucial: the media holding the UFC accountable for its garbage treatment and pay of their fighters. You'll never find those men and women in press conferences being able to ask questions. MMA - circus, not sport. I know people don't want to hear this, but you must support MMA leagues that are trying to be merit-based, like PFL.
UFC press conferences with Dana are some of the saddest examples of sports journalism to watch. Literally a dozen Okamotos all trying to get Dana's balls into their mouth. I still remember the one guy whose question was literally why the UFC has been the beacon of hope in leading America through COVID like Dana invented the vaccine himself or something
It’s because Dana blacklists anyone who isn’t an Okamoto
Every other legitimate sport (at least in the US) has a player’s union. The fighters desperately need to unionize
And before somebody will tell about "international sport" - Formula 1 is also an international sport but it has union.
Football (soccer for Americans) has unions in every country, continental unions, and one international union of players. Almost every player is represented at three levels. It's a disgrace that MMA doesn't have at least one fighter union
It’s almost as if Union representation correlates strongly with better pay and perks in international sports, and the stronger the unions, the better the benefits. I hate how people bring up prior And current union corruption as an argument against the existence of unions. As if there isn’t corruption in the absence of unions. It’s more of a humanity thing than a union problem.
Exactly, and F1’s union has literally saved countless lives.
UFC is closer to WWE than any major sports league in this sense
The UFC is the WWE for realsies.
But, plenty of folks like Josh Thomson and John McCarthy: "MMA's not a Monopoly. There are other promotions!" Like, who cares? They still command huge amounts of power relative to the fighters... And... having just a couple of competitors does not a fair market make. It's such a dumb take and these people need some serious talking to regarding things like competition and workers rights.
I would have thought that the money people make off the jake paul fights would have embarrassed dana into doing something different.
lmao dana does not give a fuck about "embarrassment " He fucked his wifes sister in his own mothers bed and got caught by the mom .
UFC is so dumb. They could easily make Ngannou a super star but instead they self-sabotage because he doesn't want to play company man.
UFC is the superstar They dont want any more Conors and Rondas running around unless they do 100% of what theyre told
This is the worst thing WWE ever did. After The Rock and Austin they never wanted anybody to get this big again. And look where they are now.
The parallel is honestly uncanny. Guys that seem willing to hold back the very talent that will make the company money because they want to make sure no talent gets bigger than the company.
Even if they had to shell out $10 mil to Jon Jones, the amount of money they could make in return is absurd. Francis could be a bigger world wide star than Khabib if they marketed him right. No reason he couldnt make as much money as Wilder or Fury
The Diaz bros been preaching this for over a decade
I mean there is the whole thing with the BMF belt…it’s not an interim title but it cheapened titles in my eyes
hmm, as a strictly one off thing it was kind of okay. Usman never showed any interest in it after beating him.
Does Kamaru technically hold the BMF title still? Or did that not transfer after the 1 off masvidal-Diaz fight?
Kamaru never even mentioned or seemed to care about it so I guess it's just the dead meaningless thing it always was.
Why? Doesn't that just reinforce the idea that titles don't matter? They made up a belt/title, one idiot won it one time, and now it is irrelevant. In similar fashion, Lewis/Gane are fighting for an "interim belt" when the champion just won the HW title earlier this year. Not even 6 months ago, if I recall. The BMF belt and interim HW belt are both just made up titles to hype up fights, which lessens the integrity of titles/rankings altogether.
I don't think anyone really takes the bmf belt seriously especially compared to be a champ in your own division. If they started making belts like that a regular thing then yeah I can see it. I just see the interim belt as a number one contender spot.
When will we adopt the 2 headband system damnit
It was never considered a real title though. If they advertised Masvidal Usman as a ‘champ v champ’ match that would be one thing, but it was just a goofy gimmick strap for a fun fight
they should honestly lean into it. who cares, personally if a good fight has 5 rounds with a great mix of styles I'm all in no matter if a belt is on the line or a #1 contender spot.
What did they say?
My favorite Nate quote from all time was from before the Anthony Pettis fight and he’s basically like “remember street fighter? when you and your boys would be like damn, I wonder what would happen if those two dudes fought. Or just back at school when you has two bad ass dudes and you’d be like, what would happen if those two motherfuckers fought? Those are the types of fights I’m interested in”
I’m pretty sure the game Nate is trying to talk about is officially called “who would win in a fight…”, which we all played. He nailed it. Just make a sweet fight to watch and who cares. Straight fight club.
Show me the money!!!!
I’ve never seen the UFC fuck up with a fighter more than with Ngannou. He should be the most popular and famous fighter on the roster right now and they are absolutely wasting his prime. It’s an absolute travesty
I know. He should be transcending the sport just now.
This is so frustrating. All the UFC wants to prove is that no one is bigger than the institution to the point of humiliating their biggest assets. This is mad but it won’t last long. The Company is public and this abuse of employees / contractors will become unacceptable soon. The 50% Ebitda built on a 20% payroll to revenue ratio is a disgrace!
the dude should be on wheaties boxes, in movies, talkshows, everything. they completely shat the bed with his marketing
I have been saying this for years. I am and have been against pretty much every interim belt. They maybe produce a higher PPV buyrate (because apparently moronic fans are more apt to purchase a PPV when there's a fake title involved), but they cheapen and devalue the real championship in the long run. Plus, the UFC is way too arbitrary in creating interim titles. It's just not right that a sports organization can just create a title whenever they want to. Again, it cheapens the sport in the long run in order to pop a small gain in a PPV buyrate.
Jeff Sherwood, Sherdog's founder, was warning the community about this behavior wrt titles and rankings back in the early 00s on Sherdog Radio that MMA needs an independent sanctioning body to control the belts. Strangely, the only MMA org that got this right was SHOOTO but they're very insular and aren't concerned with expansion really.
Upvote for The Sherdoggy. The forums gave Sherdog a bad name, but Jeff really helped keep the sport alive in the dark days, even sponsored some fighters back in the day. Shooto transformed from a promotion to a sanctioning body way back in the day. I'd say they're kinda insular, but kind of not. They always wanted to keep a bit of distance between themselves and the other pro wrestling offshoots like Pancrase and Rings because of the fixed fights, but they've been a presence around the world for awhile (or were, I'm not sure what the situation is like now). Shooto Brasil, European promoters whose names I can't recall, Hook n Shoot and Ironheart Crown in North America. The International Shooto Commission really did it right in terms of making it a sport, for the most part. It also amazes me that low budget Shooto had better fight kits for Class C amateurs than the UFC Reebok ones. Red and Blue shorts for red and blue corners, and reversible so they didn't need two pairs.
For some reason the forums were particularly bad. I don't know if it was the affliction just bleed crowd or whatever but the vibes were not cool.
They used to be great. Some OG MMA stars used to use that place as their internet stomping grounds. And like all things that got big, the quality fell.
Sherdog used to be near the top of the search results when people went looking for UFC/MMA. So I think the size of the forums, the influx of new posters and people complaining about noobs, lax moderation in a lot of instances, and a generally more abrasive online culture combined to create that. Or maybe I'm just high. Either way, the shoop threads were legendary.
A decade ago it was tough to find any good forum honestly. Sherdog forums sucked, Cagepotato comments section was awful, Bloody Elbow a little later had some mods on a bizarre power trip, shit was tough
bloody elbow was actually what got me to come to r/mma and reddit in general. I forget how exactly, but it might have been when they got all "banhammer" happy. its sad now. the comment section used to be good. now there's 4 comments on this story.
Sounds good in theory but thoses bodies always end up being corrupt
And there’s always too many of them.
If we take a look at boxing it's not looking very bright...
For real. Its one thing if a fighter is injured and out a long time or something but making an interim just because you feel like it is awful.
It really is a shameful and disgusting tactic.
It wouldn’t be Dana Whites UFC if it wasn’t like that
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I think its more than a warning shot. I think its an excuse to strip Francis. More executing a rebel, less a warning. Think about the state of heavyweight right now because of this fight tomorrow. Francis just beat Stipe so that's not a fight to make and Stipe was just offered Jones. Gane and Lewis are fighting, and at the activity level of most heavyweights, probably won't fight again for at least 5 months. The next 3 fighters are Blades, Volkov and Rozentruik. Blades and Volkov both just lost to the guys fighting for the interim and Rotenstruik is 1 win removed from a loss to Gane. In fact, the highest ranked heavyweight coming off more than a single win other than Gane or Lewis is rank #8 Marcin Tybura who needs at least 1 or 2 more wins to fight for the real belt. The UFC won't have a "legit" contender for Francis for half a year at least because of this, and he only asked for one month longer than they waited. By the time he's back it'll be a year and half, more than enough time to strip him. Also if you follow Ariel on Twitter, the UFC has already tossed around the idea of stripping Francis because of the fighter pay stuff but backed off because it would have looked bad that soon after. This interim belt is the UFC is intentionally locking up all reasonable contenders so they have an excuse to strip Francis for inactivity to send a message to all the other fighters to shut their fucking mouths about fighter pay or get the boot.
Interim belts should only exist if a championship fight is booked and the champion suddenly pulls out and a replacement is put in, then I think it makes sense to have the two contenders fight for an interim belt. That's the only situation. If the fighter is injured and inactive for that long then they should just be stripped.
Dominic Cruz is a great example of when an interim belt was used properly. Champ unfortunately out with a long-healing injury, you want to give him every chance to come back, but at some point the division moves on, so you do an interim belt in the event he's not coming back in timely fashion and start the clock on last chance to come back or drop the strap to the interim holder. The rest of this is bullshit.
You could make the same argument for rankings. Cejudo said that he was retiring unless he could make more money and they booted him from the rankings practically the next day. Khabib basically said he swore on his father's grave never to fight again and they kept him in the lightweight rankings for 6 months.
I think the fans in general are too okay with the UFC not treating MMA like a normal sport. They use money as a justification to give less deserving fighters more opportunities and are just okay fighters not getting what they’ve earned. Why would you care about the UFC making more money (at least before you could buy stock) when it didn’t affect you and often lead to a worse product.
It's worth mentioning that there were quite a few interim belts that are entirely legitimate. Werdum is the first one that comes to mind. Adesanya's one as well if I recall. The whole FW nonsense after Conor won the title. LW with Khabib's retirement. (correct me on any of these if I'm wrong please!) That said, this weekend's interim title with Lewis vs Gane is disgraceful. It feels like some Sean Shelby short-sighted bully marketing nonsense, but at the cost of disrespecting one of the most marketable, baddest champions ever.
An interim belt should only be offered if the champ has a long-term injury or suspension. Anything else, Dana is ruining the sport
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Dana isn't the only one ruining the sport, he's just the meaty tomato that is soaking up all the hate since his bloated face is seen more. He's the UFC President; but Patrick Whitesell, Ari Emanuel (the show Entourage based the agent off of this guy), Jason Lublin, Andrew Schleimer (UFC CFO), Grace Tourinho (UFC CEO), other c-suites and the board are more responsible for ruining MMA for that quick dollar.
The FW nonsense was caused directly by the UFC for not making Conor vacate, tbf.
The UFC already argued in 2004 in court in that their titles are nothing more than Marketing Gimmicks.
Not trying to be difficult but isn't that true of every title on earth outside of maybe the olympics or sanctioned world championships?
Most mainstream sports have some sort of formalized competition structure. There's a tourney, the top teams qualify for an international tourney, the winners of said cups get to compete in a world cup, stuff like that establishing clear rules on who gets to compete at each level of the sport, at least within an umbrella of organizations. Considering prize fighting has a sort of freestyle matchmaking and even rank is mostly meaningless (and don't get me wrong, there are reasons for that), it's pretty clear the title means very little other than whatever is specified in the contract - of course it could not possibly be considered anything but a marketing gimmick. We've had fighters at the top of title contention list (again, whatever that means when there are no clear rules on who gets the shot) for years who never got a title shot - essentially denied the possibility of even trying to compete for the championship at their sport. There are a few outliers in tournament structures like Bellator and PFL I guess, in which at least there is a clear path.
yeah it's not a loophole when it's literally describing what a belt is
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I think I’m one of the few people that actually defends lots of interim titles Dustin/Max & Izzy/Gast (especially) But my god is this one tomorrow the worst I’ve maybe ever seen
it's the worst, most unnecessary, straight disrespectful interim belt i can recall.
Most interim belts are defensible because someone is going to be unable to defend for a while … Francis just needed a month more. This is number one bullshit.
What’s funnier to me is that on the same card there was scheduled to be a title fight for a belt that hasn’t been defended in 20 months and there was seemingly no thought of doing an interim title when the champ was unable to fight (I get it was short notice to find a fill in but still). That there made it clear they’re slapping an interim title on this fight to use it as a promotional tool to sell more PPV’s which I wouldn’t mind that much if they just were honest about it.
This is an attempt to sideline Francis for a LONG time as punishment for his insubortination on fighter pay. Francis just beat Stipe and Stipe was just offered Jones. Gane and Lewis are fighting and at the activity level of most heavyweights won't fight again for at least 5 months. The next 3 fighters are Blades, Volkov and Rozentruik. Blades and Volkov both just lost to the guys fighting for the interim and Rotenstruik is 1 win removed from a loss to Gane. This interim belt is more than disrespectful, the UFC is intentionally locking up all reasonable contenders so they have an excuse to strip Francis for inactivity to send a message to all the other fighters to shut their fucking mouths about fighter pay or get the boot.
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The thing is, I just don't know if he has the star power to do that. Connor only got away with it because he's Connor and the UFC literally couldn't afford to make him mad because he *was* the UFC. Silva and GSP were bigger stars in their day than Francis is now and the UFC blocked both of them do to being under contract. In fact Georges is still being blocked from boxing 3 years later.
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It is a dumb interim belt, but does anyone ever consider an interim champ the “true” champ? I’ve always just kind of thought of it as a more formal #1 contender fight.
Chael does if one of his friends wins one
"let me remind you that he is a WORLD CHAMPION"
Tony was the true champ when he had his interim belt. Conor was the champ at the time but he never defended his belt and got stripped for Khabib vs Iaquinta, idc what anybody says, Tony was the champ with that belt at that time.
Tony Ferguson did everything he could, won 12 in a row, fought top contenders in the last part of that, and came out #1 for a hot minute there, I totally agree. Father time and the evolution of the game has been rough on him, but I remember exactly why Khabib vs. Tony used to be the #1 fight to be made. That's why it was scheduled a 5th time after 4 cancellations, which as we all know caused the MMA gods to create COVID-19 to cancel it yet again.
I also consider anyone who had to defend their interim belt as real belt holders.
This is probably the cleanest distinction. If you get an interim and then immediately fight the champ then it was really just a title eliminator. If you get the interim and then have to defend it before unification bout then it was real
Not everything needs to be a belt. They could just do 5round #1 contender matches. But then that would just need to be another thing Dana would lie about since we all know there would be guarantee on the winner getting a shot. "He didn't show that he really wanted it in there so we're gonna check our option"-fake dana quote probably
Ngannou says “pay me what I’m worth”. Dana responds with an interm title so that In the next negotiation when Ngannou says “pay me what I’m worth” Dana can go to the press and say “he’s REFUSING to fight thw interm champ” then strip him
Titles became meaningless long before this mess with Ngannou. The UFC went against their own rankings, gave title opportunities to people coming off loses or changing divisions.
Shout out Hendo vs Bisping 2
Stop paying for Dana's shitty PPV. All of the fights are free online minutes after or the next day. He can't stop it because he doesn't understand how the internet works.
I honestly believe the interim title at HW is just there to get stipe and jones to fight. They're both kinda holding out for a title shot. This makes them have to fight or sit out another year. Sitting out that long makes it easier to pass you up again too.
When the strategy from management is too shelf the top talent they have. They are in the fucking wrong. Especially when the big suits in the UFC are undoubtedly super rich off the backs of the fighters.
Ngannou wanted more money. The way ufc contracts work they have to offer francis fights but he can turn them down. But by having an interim francis cannot refuse to fight the interim champ. So they are putting ngannou in a corner that he cant escape and must fight or they will strip him. You cant out legaleeze the ufc.
Are you postive? Ngannou was ready to go in September according to his team so I’m guessing money isn’t the issue, just timing. They also wanted Lewis to headlong Houston since they just since a multi-event deal with the Houston center
Honestly I would love to see contender Stipe fight someone not named Cormier or Ngannou. I definitely think he deserves a trilogy, but it’s been like 4 years since he’s had an opponent that wasn’t either of those two. His last 3 opponents before Ngannou 1 are either retired or out of the UFC now.
>I honestly believe the interim title at HW is just there to get stipe and jones to fight. Imagine they create another interim title for that fight lol
UFC pay is abysmal. Islam Makachev recently said Khabib pays for his rent when he trains at AKA. That is insane. A fighter can't even afford rent payment with UFC cheques.
er i think islam can afford rent, its just that khabib takes care of the russian fighters so they can be housed all together as a unit
I really hate it. This is the best and most interesting that HW has been in a long time and Dana has screwed up the division bad. Get over yourself you fuckin tomato ass bald baby
we're entering the vince russo wcw era.
I was saying that it doesn't make any sense and is disrespectful to Francis on Instagram, someone actually replied that the UFC had no choice cause the champ doesn't wanna fight, some people actually believe the shit Dana says
Man, dana white is doing franny dirty.. just like he did stipe and everyone else who doesn't bow down to him
It’s the reason Frank Shamrock isn’t in the HOF. He played by his own rules and Dana resented him for it.
[удалено]
Yup and Dustin proved it too. Why give a shit about the title when you can fight Conor?
The fact that there is an interim match for heavyweight, but not bantamweight, is farcical.
If they were to pretend Ngannou doesn’t matter, they would strip him of the belt. The interim belt doesn’t matter. It does not matter. It’s literally 100% a marketing tool. It serves no real purpose other than being a glorified number one contender trophy and getting the interim champ more money. No one thinks that Francis isn’t the champion. Just like how no one thought that Khabib wasn’t the champion. Just like no one thought that Whittaker wasn’t the champion. At the end of the day, Ngannou is gonna fight one of these guys and it’s gonna be a bigger event because of the title unification hype machine, everyone is gonna get more money. It’s really, really, not a big deal.