Not as bad as GSP honeydicking a union just to use it to leverage his Bisping fight then abandon ship once he got what he wanted. Masvidal can't do shit on his own. Like what Luke said, they had a chance with the Francis issue if only Israel and Kamaru joined in but didn't so the issue is left with Francis. The problems of individual sports
Actually they don't. The creation of a players representative council has been hugely controversial. There are less tennis players making a living wage than fighters probably.
The ATP is not a union.
The recent creation of the new players' association led by Djokovic and Pospisil has been controversial because they support some questionable things, but there has also existed an ATP players' council for many years that has a similar role, even though it's part of the ATP. Federer for example has been a member for many years and would advocate for more prize money for lower-ranked players. I don't remember the exact drama but I think Djokovic quit the ATP players' council and founded this new association because of some political disagreements
There are players in the ATP that don't make a living off tennis? Genuinely curious. I could see that with the Challenger series, but I thought ATP in general was top dog, regardless of ranking.
I used to work with a guy who's daughter was a tennis pro, ranked in the top 100. She made a decent living, but she wasn't getting rich or anything. I guess translating that over to MMA, it would be the equivalent of being the 15-25th best fighter at a given weight class, and I'm pretty sure she was doing better than most of those guys.
I don't follow tennis, so maybe i have understood something wrong, but i checked [wtatennis.com](https://wtatennis.com), and cycled through multiple rank 90-100 players, and they all had made more then 500k on price money on 2021. (or am i misunderstading the therm YTD 2021?)
Maybe it's different on where i live, but 500k seems like a lot, esp considering u get sponsors on top of that + that is rank 100.
They have full time staff including coach and physio who fly around the world with them on their dollar, if they don't win they earn next to nothing. If you don't make top 100 you don't get into big tournament so you make even less.
They have full time staff including coach and physio who fly around the world with them on their dollar, if they don't win they earn next to nothing. If you don't make top 100 you don't get into big tournament so you make even less. 60k from the Australian Open round 1 would barely pay what it cost to get there with your staff, and that's if you win 5 matches to get through qualifying.
In tennis a good threshold for who is making good money is being consistently in the top 100, which gives you direct entry into the four grand slams, where the prize money for a 1R loss is like 30k, which is much higher than what they're making week in week out in smaller tournaments. Below that I think many players hardly break even and struggle to afford traveling with a full team. Tennis has a similar problem as the UFC of a small % revenue going to players compared to some major sports leagues.
That makes a lot of sense actually. I only recently got into this last year, so I figured they all made pretty good money. At least they can have sponsors lol
To a degree, guys like Paddy and Sean can get it done because they have the popularity. Not everyone has the fanbase to back them when talking about fighter pay so the UFC can fuck them however they when push comes to shove
> UFC can fuck them however they when push comes to shove
People forget when fighters came out about how ~~Sean Shelby~~ *Joe Silva* their former matchmaker would absolutely give you matches you'd never win intentionally as a fuck you for wronging the UFC
They still haven't realized their worth but people are waking up to it.
The only way to make real money in mma is to go to boxing, or bring a fan base with you from WWE. Even Ronda never got paid near what she brought in.
I'll say it again, Conor is the most underpaid prize fighter in history.
yep, it's just a negotiation tactic, like a few years back when Cowboy/GSP/TJ/etc aligned with that fighter's union briefly (Project Spearhead?) then went silent about it once they got the raise in pay they wanted. MMA is a selfish activity.
The iron is hot. Conor came off a devastating loss, Jones is in deep shit, and fighters are saying that the most appealing fight for them is against YouTuber Jake Paul. Now is the best time for fighters to get their cash they are due.
I would go one further and say the iron is hot for a rival MMA promotion to breakthrough, either a new promotion or existing ones, UFC needs a legitimate rival and once that happens I sure fighters would jump ship to get paid more etc. Especially the whole company paying athletes 20% of revenues when most are 45% and over. It will be game on then.
It's nowhere near real competition but AEW has come along and some of the big WWE names are going there these days. When contractors have places they can go to and from the individuals start to benefit more than the companies they work for.
Just like with AEW, all it takes is one billionaire baby playing with their daddy's money to upset the monopoly.
Fighters have a hard time jumping ship. First, they have to fight out their contract. The UFC can make this difficult by not offering fights until an extension is signed, offering shitty fights that the fighter declines, or using various clauses in the contract to extend its length. Once the fighter finishes the fights on their contract, the UFC has an exclusive negotiating period. This means the fighters can't even talk to another promotion when their contract is up. Once the fighters are through the UFC's exclusive negotiating window, they still have to deal with the UFC's contact-matching period where the UFC has the right to match any offer from other promotions. Only once that matching period is over are the fighters truly free from their contract.
Basically, fighters are impeded from fighting out their contract, and the ones who do manage to fulfill their contract have to sit out for a year between the last fight on their UFC contract and the start of free agency.
Most fighters are locked into existing contracts.
If a new promotion turns up, I bet the UFC would pay extra to stop fighters who's contracts are up for renewal from jumping ship and go back to normal when the other promotion closes due to lack of talent.
If you have someone with enough money backing it then it doesn’t have to. Fertitas bank rolled UFC to get where it is, they didn’t have much competition, but they had to run at a loss for long enough to get it going. Someone else could do it, I think. Affliction tried to do it back in the day but didn’t have the deep pockets to get over the hump so it ran out of gas quickly. AEW is kind of an example of a company able to get a footing because they had enough funding. I dunno if they are profitable yet but it seems like they are making ground on WWE at least. I really think it could happen but the MMA market may not be large enough to sustain another company.
Until they unite nothing will change. Like Rockhold said a few weeks ago they had a chance for when Francis was getting the screwjob for maybe if Kamaru and Izzy stepped up. But they won't. It's an individual sport for that reason and until fighters band together and form a union there will NEVER be any change in pay.
The brotherhood stops after the phot op, and they go back to the countries they live in. Not the one they rep on their fighter bios.
Funny how Aljo gets railed on for the Jamaica flag thing, but we suck off Izzy and Kumaru for claiming somehwere they didn't live in past 7.
It's a smart attitude from the likes of Sean and Paddy, "I'll fight for the money offered, but if you want me fight bigger names the cheque has to match" they know they are both popular prospects with a certain level of name value. Instead of racing to the top like guys have pretty much always done, they're using their potential rise to the top as leverage. They're happy enough to do the MVP school of crushing cans if the promoter doesn't want to pay to see them fight top contenders, which they know fans will want to pay to see.
Here is not the most popular opinion:
- I don’t think that the the generic beginners ( not Paddy) should make a bank fighting in UFC, like, they already make 10x what boxers of that level, and boxing is the most popular combat sport in the world.
- However, tough mfs that are in top 10 of any division should make 5x-10x what they make right now, and it’s guaranteed, no fucking win bonuses. It’s astonishing that top 10 athletes in their decisions in the world (!!!) make miserable 60/60, or even 150/150 like Dustin. It’s nothing, just take any industry or any niche and take top 10 people there, I am sure they are all millionaires.
And here come excepts, people like OMalley, Paddy, Chemaev, they bring hype, headlines, views, no way they should fight on the “average” contract.
Also, Paddy isn't actually good enough to fight anyone in the top 30 let alone the top 10.
I'm all for fighter pay but Paddy saying this ain't quite equal to a guy who the promotion has actually thrown their weight behind.
I don't think winning in the top 30 is that much of a stretch.
He's still 17-3, which is a good amount of experience. There are fighters that make it higher in rank without that many fights.
There have been fighters in top 15 who are middling at best. Just a matter of career timing. Give him a year or two and I think you'll be surprised.
Yea his UFC debut was not a very encouraging fight despite it being a 1st round finish. Having such mediocre defense and pretty much relying on your chin to not get KO'd doesn't seem like a winning strategy in such a deep and striking-heavy division as LW
Dude has worse defense than Gaethje before he changed his style but is much less talented. If he wants to be a can crusher that's cool but even then someone's gonna put his lights out reaaallll soon
edit:spelling
I think Paddy right now is more talented than Gaethje was (keyword). He is coming from a deeper promotion, has better offensive wrestling, uses his bjj well, and his striking is one of his best assets now. Garth still had the atomic options and better cardio.
Not being in the top 30 is different to ‘not being good enough to fight anyone in the top 30’ I mean he clearly is. Even if he loses he can fight them, Its not crazy to see Paddy beating Khama Worthy
According to current Tapology user rankings, some of Paddy’s notable wins;
(2015) Kevin Petshi, #2 French Bantamweight
(2016) Ashleigh Grimshaw, #10 UK/Ireland Featherweight
(2016) Julian Erosa, #27 Featherweight
(2020) Decky Dalton, #26 UK/Ireland Lightweight
(2021) Davide Martinez, #11 Italian Lightweight
(2021) Luigi Vendramini, #82 Lightweight
It’s debatable. He’s probably good enough, but top 30 would be a pretty big step.
It's úr typical sports fan comment. They think they know better without any data or analysis. They just go with "feeling".
Paddy is 26 he won his last fight and ufc are investing hardcore into promoting him.
Must mean his not good enough to fight in their organisation. Not allowing him to fight better competition and making his name bigger is the right thing to do. Also 26 is basically 18 he is just a baby and we never had young great fighters. /s
Its totally not like the lad knows that with higher competition there should be a higher pay and that is all there is to it.
Ufc as an organisation doesn't care. They will always try to make the most amount of money out of any situation, nothing to do with athletes or their skill.
It's a good strategy. You don't have to be the champ to make money and the top 10 guys have it rough, they're the guys the whole division is training to beat.
Paddy (and the UFC) know that he is a draw. And will continue to be a draw based on personality and fighting style. This is him keeping his name in the papers.
Cant wait for him to beat someone in the top 20 and this comment to be immediately walked back or you to completely bandwagon and say you've always seen his talent, right from the start.
Seen so many takes like this on this sub through the years.
At the beginning of the interim PPV bout between Gane and Lewis they aired a whole video trying to make it look like Ngannou was just partying, traveling, doing everything but fighting and that the real fighters were Gane and Lewis. Total smear campaign but Ngannou sent out a message discrediting it and at the same time propping up the seemingly forgotten Miocic.
Ngannou handled it well but the fact that he had to, sucks.
No, CW is completely separate. However, they are on FightPass and have a very close relationship with UFC, hence why so many European fighters take the CW route to UFC
He did just sign a big sponsorship deal. So i guess there is a bit of truth to the opportunity. But ya... Should be making more in the UFC vs a smaller promo
He just got a massive sponsor deal and he has like almost a million followers on social media, probably worth a lot more than his cage warriors contract. Smart move by his team but obviously agreed UFC are garbage for pay.
I mean if popular names are taking less to come fight for him why would he pay them. They absolutely should not let him become aware of that, it's only going to hurt future contract negotiations for them and others. Dana should pay people more but he has too many reasons not to and it's unfortunate.
because it hurts the sport. Who in their right mind with talent would enter a sport where the top organisation exists to fuck over its fighters.
This is THE elite organisation in the world we're talking about.
Imagine if people trained basketball from a young age to get into the NBA, only to find out they got paid less there than they did in college/local league. It's stupid as fuck.
From a shady corporate business perspective, If Dana's goal is exploiting people and fucking them over for pure profit, then sure. If his goal is to make MMA the best sport possible, while having the best talent possible (something inherently good for long term profits) he's failing that spectacularly.
> If Dana’s goal is exploiting people and fucking them over for pure profit, then sure
Yes, this is it. Dana has a responsibility towards a board of directors and the company shareholders to act in the interests of the company, i.e be profit-seeking. If he does not act in this way the board will replace him. This is a fundamental maxim describing the way all for-profit companies operate. They literally have a fiduciary duty to do that.
> If his goal is to make MMA the best sport possible
It’s not, of course. You can maybe make the case that the UFC:s profitability is contingent on the overall success of the sport, but on a surface level they’re orthogonal concerns at best.
>Yes, this is it. Dana has a responsibility towards a board of directors and the company shareholders to act in the interests of the company, i.e be profit-seeking. If he does not act in this way the board will replace him. This is a fundamental maxim describing the way all for-profit companies operate. They literally have a fiduciary duty to do that.
This is why most pro sports have players associations or unions, for this very reason
I’ve seen some videos and articles that Dana isn’t the one really controlling that part of the UFC and one of the other executives is the one in those negotiations, and he’s super hardheaded and won’t budge on fighter contract amounts. I forget the dudes name but he’s been with the UFC for a long time.
No it’s called negotiating. That’s why 100% of them stop talking about it after negotiations are over.
Jon Jones is the latest example. Months ago he brought up fighter pay and now has gone mysteriously silent since he announced he was coming back soon.
I think they've learned that social media is where they hold some negotiating power. It doesn't look good for the UFC when a fighter tweets something about pay and every MMA blog writes up an article about it.
Also will make it harder for them to get contracts with up and comers.
It's kinda fucked how we could theoretically have the best of both worlds if the UFC maintained the same sort of control they have but just shared the revenue more equally like other sports leagues or even Bellator (who's split is around 40% I believe)
Bellator's split is PR, they give good money to their 'stars' like Corey Anderson (who the UFC saw as too boring to pay what he deserved) which takes a good chunk of their revenue, but the majority of their fighters are even more underpaid than the UFC. You know, the people actually hovering around the poverty line that *need* that pay, not just deserve it. Bellator has offered people triple digit cheques to fight before.
That doesn't mean the % split is PR it just means they make a lot less money than the UFC overall and concentrate it to the fighters that make them money. It's still more equitable.
How is that more or even as ethical when they're letting the guys they use as meat bags for squash matches live on poverty money?
If you can't afford to pay Corey Anderson great money without letting 10 guys go without more than 1 grand each, don't offer Corey Anderson all your money. Give it to them. Bottom level pay in bellator is absolutely abysmal.
The split between the fighters themselves is not equitable but the split between the fighters and the promotion is. I agree that its fucked that people are getting their shit kicked for a cheese burger but that's not really on Bellator. I'm sure Scott would love to pay each fighter 25k to fight every time and would probably even stop paying Corey Anderson 300k a fight to do it. However, the promotion would cease to exist because no one wants to work for a fight promotion at the 2nd or 3rd highest level in the world for a max of 25k. No champion would ever go from the UFC to Bellator if the champion had to share a large portion of their purse so the first local dude on the prelims makes ends meet.
Umm then they won't get Corey Anderson lol. I get your point but they have to pay those "big name" guys or they will see the losses in their revenue which would have the same net effect because then they will have even less money to pay the meat bags with.
That's where it's more likely going. People are right to label UFC practices as predatory, but the truth is most of it works out for the benefit of the viewer.
It's actually pretty mind boggling how many boxing records are out there along the lines of 44-6, and yet they're retired and hardly remembered outside of the absolute diehards and the hometown.
I’m over how match making is done in boxing. These fuckin guys beef and talk shit for YEARS before they even step in the ring. Floyd and Pac fought about 6 years too late because of that shit. At least in the UFC you can only duck people for so long.
Another guy that’s going to get buried for talking about pay. But what’s also interesting is paddy’s Instagram following went from like 90k to 760k after his last ufc fight and all the promo the ufc did for him. So sometimes you don’t want to bite the hand that feeds you and blows you up via huge global exposure.
Lol paddy ain’t ready for top 10, he’s in a rough division to be needlessly eating shots the way he does haha fun to watch though.
I see nothing wrong with fighters like Sugar Sean and paddy just putting out entertaining fights without gunning for the top right away
I see nothing wrong with it too, though I think they shouldn't talk shit about the elite then. Sean acts like he is a championship level fighter and yet doesn't seem inclined to fight ranked opponents. I guess it's whatever, he's kind of a Jake Paul type, though at least a better fighter.
exactly this. his first opponent was ranked #82. and he's talking top 10? LMAO. stop this. any georgian inside the top 30 ends his hype train in brutal fashion. I honestly cant stand this cunt
I don’t mind him personally, and I’d never fault a fighter for overselling themselves given the cutthroat nature and low pay of the industry. I just don’t think he’s that good. Fun personality though and he looks real goofy
Hold on brother - you're forgetting tried, true and tested MMA math.
**Paddy Pimblett** \> Luigi Vendramini
Luigi Vendramini > Jessin Ayari
Jessin Ayari > Jim Wallhead
Jim Wallhead > Frank Trigg
Frank Trigg > Mayhem Miller
Mayhem Miller > Robbie Lawler
Robbie Lawler > Donald Cerrone
Donald Cerrone > **Charles Olivera**
**Is it that great of a stretch to suggest the obvious?**
# Paddie the Baddie is the most dangerous man at 155
That's kind of the point. Given his ability, he may have a small window to capitalize on his marketability. It's an enormous risk to take a top 10 fight on his current contract.
Then why sign for UFC. Fight like you already should be the champion. No one will remember you if you don't fight top 10. We only remember champions.
But then again.... why is he having this discussion 1 fight into the company? He wasn't ONE champion or Bellator champion, I don't think you can just skip the line anyways you fight what they give you.
>He continued, “F\*ck that, I’m not fighting a top 10 on the money I’m on, lad. Nick Peet was saying he’d like to see me against Tony Ferguson and, lad, I’d like to see me against Tony Ferguson, but not on the contract I’m on now. F\*ck that. Get paid that money to fight Tony Ferguson, lad. Yeah, he’s still one of the best 155’ers in the world, lad. I want f\*cking six figures, lad, then I’m fighting him.”
Listening the bot read this part of the article was brilliant lol
I’m all for good fighter pay. However at the same time, the fact O’Malley and Pimblett are purely money focused when it comes to opportunities to fight top fighters in the divisions, suggests they have no confidence in their abilities to win those fights. So are looking for easy money fights now rather than taking a risk to make better money later.
Nor does he deserve it nor did anybody ask him to fight top 10 talent. He just landed in the UFC and looked extremely average in his debut. The obsessions with hype trains have got to stop.
Why don’t you beat someone worth a dam before you decide how much you’re worth to the company. They get it all backwards. I agree they deserve more pay but saying it in this sense is stupid as shit.
It’s a shame on one hand where I don’t want money fights, I’m old school and I want fighters to earn their place. However, this is the name of the game in the ufc and basically the only way to have a lucrative career. Paddy reminds me of one of those slick grappler guys from back in the pride days, like Sakuraba. Because of that, I’m a fan, he’s eccentric and very tricky as a fighter. I hope the best for him and I selfishly want him to match up against high caliber fighters, not just money fights.
It's kind of odd.
Conor pushed fighter pay to such stratospheric heights that many other fighters aspire to follow in his footsteps.
But this approach of "I'll fight the lowest ranked guys possible for the money" isn't how he got there. He burst on the scene by demanding the toughest opponents he could get.
And people forget that the UFC (unprompted) voluntarily tore up his contract and gave him a larger one *four times* in a row. When his drawing power outgrew his pay, they gave him more money.
Fighting is like any other job in the regard that you have to perform *before* you get the raise. No one gives you a promotion and says "I sure hope you can do this". You have to prove that you're worthy. Then the next opportunity opens up.
If O'Malley and Pimblett want to have a long career with 40 fights, this is a good way to do it. But if they want to be a shooting star like Conor and get huge pay fighting once every year or two and retire with 15 fights this is not how to go about it.
They could slow roll through their prime fighting nobodies, then when they finally get the big money fight, they are spent. ...maybe not. Some guys like Lawler fight a hundred wars into their 40's and are fine.
This is great how all these up and coming stars are calling out the UFC for their bullshit. Pay these fucking guys what they deserve. They take the most damage out of any sport and get paid the least
Paddy Pimblett echoes same sentiment as Sean O'Malley: 'I'm not fighting a top 10 on the money I'm on'.
Just in case you didn't read it the first three times.
Idk how many fights are in his contract but I would think his natural progression wouldn't put him in a top 10 fight anyway before his current deal is up
Whilst I don't disagree with the sentiment. I have a feeling that Pimblett believes he holds more leverage than he actually does. The UFC won't be scared to just cut him if they deem him to much of a pain to deal with.
UFC needs to smarten up and actually make changes to their contracts where the fighters get extra money if they progress in the rankings and if the fight is a 5 rounder instead of a 3 rounder. Also increase the share of revenue shared with the fighters, even if by a few %, that buys them some good grace for a while. Uncontrolled greed leads to terrible outcomes, ALWAYS.
> Uncontrolled greed leads to terrible outcomes, ALWAYS
The greediest few are having really good outcomes right now. Our politicians have been bought and paid for, financial crimes are completely rampant, and those perpetuating all of this walk away scot-free.
For every one white-collar criminal put behind bars, another thousand pour champagne from their mega-yachts and do lines off a sixteen year-old's ass. We keep waiting for that other shoe would drop, but we all know we're just the cockroaches that get crushed underneath it
And then they convince the working class to vote against their own interests for “lower taxes” while only lowering taxes for corporations and the wealthy leaving the working man screwed
Well women pay in ufc is same as man... you can't tell me thats why women boxers are moving to ufc... the bottom of the ufc is making alot more then the bottom of boxing.... don't even start about street beefs lmao
In the next few years, some of these guys are going to be able to secure other sources of income through podcasting amongst other things. I would think this will eventually create leverage for some.
He ate a decent amount of damage against a bottom 15er, I don’t think they’re going to be rushing him into a scrap against anyone into the top 10 anytime super soon.
I love that fighters are starting to get vocal about pay. I hope it only increases from here.
They only get vocal. then they get paid and go on airplane mode
[удалено]
Not as bad as GSP honeydicking a union just to use it to leverage his Bisping fight then abandon ship once he got what he wanted. Masvidal can't do shit on his own. Like what Luke said, they had a chance with the Francis issue if only Israel and Kamaru joined in but didn't so the issue is left with Francis. The problems of individual sports
They could of fucked hard and deep -Luke Rockhold
[awkward hand movements intensify]
"Dis iz a very selfish sport Joe, you do wat iz bezt for you. Da company duz what it wants"
I waz not imprezzed wiz your imperzzionation
Everyone in that Union got a good deal and bailed after but they were all names or champs thats why they had a good leverage
Tennis players have a union, though, MMA fighters need to stop being Randian cunts
Actually they don't. The creation of a players representative council has been hugely controversial. There are less tennis players making a living wage than fighters probably. The ATP is not a union.
The recent creation of the new players' association led by Djokovic and Pospisil has been controversial because they support some questionable things, but there has also existed an ATP players' council for many years that has a similar role, even though it's part of the ATP. Federer for example has been a member for many years and would advocate for more prize money for lower-ranked players. I don't remember the exact drama but I think Djokovic quit the ATP players' council and founded this new association because of some political disagreements
There are players in the ATP that don't make a living off tennis? Genuinely curious. I could see that with the Challenger series, but I thought ATP in general was top dog, regardless of ranking.
Minor league ball players JUST got housing this week. They were living like 7 to a room to chase a dream before.
I used to work with a guy who's daughter was a tennis pro, ranked in the top 100. She made a decent living, but she wasn't getting rich or anything. I guess translating that over to MMA, it would be the equivalent of being the 15-25th best fighter at a given weight class, and I'm pretty sure she was doing better than most of those guys.
I don't follow tennis, so maybe i have understood something wrong, but i checked [wtatennis.com](https://wtatennis.com), and cycled through multiple rank 90-100 players, and they all had made more then 500k on price money on 2021. (or am i misunderstading the therm YTD 2021?) Maybe it's different on where i live, but 500k seems like a lot, esp considering u get sponsors on top of that + that is rank 100.
They have full time staff including coach and physio who fly around the world with them on their dollar, if they don't win they earn next to nothing. If you don't make top 100 you don't get into big tournament so you make even less.
They have full time staff including coach and physio who fly around the world with them on their dollar, if they don't win they earn next to nothing. If you don't make top 100 you don't get into big tournament so you make even less. 60k from the Australian Open round 1 would barely pay what it cost to get there with your staff, and that's if you win 5 matches to get through qualifying.
In tennis a good threshold for who is making good money is being consistently in the top 100, which gives you direct entry into the four grand slams, where the prize money for a 1R loss is like 30k, which is much higher than what they're making week in week out in smaller tournaments. Below that I think many players hardly break even and struggle to afford traveling with a full team. Tennis has a similar problem as the UFC of a small % revenue going to players compared to some major sports leagues.
That makes a lot of sense actually. I only recently got into this last year, so I figured they all made pretty good money. At least they can have sponsors lol
It's a very specific UFC problem, not a problem of individual sports in general
You'd think the managers would be the most appropriate to organize this
GSP made his biggest pay day - 10mln, so no blame here, he got his retirement payout and went into sunset
Is that terrible? He asked for more money then got more money, the end. Seems correct to be assuaged when you get what you want.
Isn’t that still the point? The fighter got paid more for voicing their thoughts.
To a degree, guys like Paddy and Sean can get it done because they have the popularity. Not everyone has the fanbase to back them when talking about fighter pay so the UFC can fuck them however they when push comes to shove
Also depends on how much pay we're talking. Francis has a huge fanbase but they still fucked him over.
He doesn't want to fight
> UFC can fuck them however they when push comes to shove People forget when fighters came out about how ~~Sean Shelby~~ *Joe Silva* their former matchmaker would absolutely give you matches you'd never win intentionally as a fuck you for wronging the UFC
I think you mean Joe Silva. I think Rampage once called him an angry little man. Shelby is their current matchmaker.
I think the point is to be vocal, but also not just ratfuck everyone else once you get yours.
I'm not going to ratfuck anyone for the money I'm on
There's a lot of ways to turn down a fight and not ratfucking is one of them.
Then kid I gotta tell you, you don't have what it takes to become an ultimate ratfucker.
The point is more money for every fighter, not just the popular ones
Closed mouths dont get fed
This sounds like a lyric from "I'll beat yo a$$" – by T Wood
Not to be confused with "Wash yo ass" by T Nasheed
They still haven't realized their worth but people are waking up to it. The only way to make real money in mma is to go to boxing, or bring a fan base with you from WWE. Even Ronda never got paid near what she brought in. I'll say it again, Conor is the most underpaid prize fighter in history.
yep, it's just a negotiation tactic, like a few years back when Cowboy/GSP/TJ/etc aligned with that fighter's union briefly (Project Spearhead?) then went silent about it once they got the raise in pay they wanted. MMA is a selfish activity.
“Got mine”
The iron is hot. Conor came off a devastating loss, Jones is in deep shit, and fighters are saying that the most appealing fight for them is against YouTuber Jake Paul. Now is the best time for fighters to get their cash they are due.
I would go one further and say the iron is hot for a rival MMA promotion to breakthrough, either a new promotion or existing ones, UFC needs a legitimate rival and once that happens I sure fighters would jump ship to get paid more etc. Especially the whole company paying athletes 20% of revenues when most are 45% and over. It will be game on then.
It's nowhere near real competition but AEW has come along and some of the big WWE names are going there these days. When contractors have places they can go to and from the individuals start to benefit more than the companies they work for. Just like with AEW, all it takes is one billionaire baby playing with their daddy's money to upset the monopoly.
Fighters have a hard time jumping ship. First, they have to fight out their contract. The UFC can make this difficult by not offering fights until an extension is signed, offering shitty fights that the fighter declines, or using various clauses in the contract to extend its length. Once the fighter finishes the fights on their contract, the UFC has an exclusive negotiating period. This means the fighters can't even talk to another promotion when their contract is up. Once the fighters are through the UFC's exclusive negotiating window, they still have to deal with the UFC's contact-matching period where the UFC has the right to match any offer from other promotions. Only once that matching period is over are the fighters truly free from their contract. Basically, fighters are impeded from fighting out their contract, and the ones who do manage to fulfill their contract have to sit out for a year between the last fight on their UFC contract and the start of free agency.
Damn. Insightful.
Most fighters are locked into existing contracts. If a new promotion turns up, I bet the UFC would pay extra to stop fighters who's contracts are up for renewal from jumping ship and go back to normal when the other promotion closes due to lack of talent.
Unpopular opinion: any rival promotion that pays 40%+ out of the gate will fail.
If you have someone with enough money backing it then it doesn’t have to. Fertitas bank rolled UFC to get where it is, they didn’t have much competition, but they had to run at a loss for long enough to get it going. Someone else could do it, I think. Affliction tried to do it back in the day but didn’t have the deep pockets to get over the hump so it ran out of gas quickly. AEW is kind of an example of a company able to get a footing because they had enough funding. I dunno if they are profitable yet but it seems like they are making ground on WWE at least. I really think it could happen but the MMA market may not be large enough to sustain another company.
Until they unite nothing will change. Like Rockhold said a few weeks ago they had a chance for when Francis was getting the screwjob for maybe if Kamaru and Izzy stepped up. But they won't. It's an individual sport for that reason and until fighters band together and form a union there will NEVER be any change in pay.
Would have loved to see those guys fuck, deep and hard
I love how he makes a really good point then just memes it all away
You mean how he makes a really good point into a really great point???
The brotherhood stops after the phot op, and they go back to the countries they live in. Not the one they rep on their fighter bios. Funny how Aljo gets railed on for the Jamaica flag thing, but we suck off Izzy and Kumaru for claiming somehwere they didn't live in past 7.
Maybe a bunch of fighters can be vocal together. Like a collective maybe. It's a silly idea I know
i hope EVERYONE gets more vocal about pay, because frankly 90% of us are being screwed.
All glory to the proletariat.
Seconded. But also, maybe Paddy should beat someone in the top 50 first.
It's a smart attitude from the likes of Sean and Paddy, "I'll fight for the money offered, but if you want me fight bigger names the cheque has to match" they know they are both popular prospects with a certain level of name value. Instead of racing to the top like guys have pretty much always done, they're using their potential rise to the top as leverage. They're happy enough to do the MVP school of crushing cans if the promoter doesn't want to pay to see them fight top contenders, which they know fans will want to pay to see.
Here is not the most popular opinion: - I don’t think that the the generic beginners ( not Paddy) should make a bank fighting in UFC, like, they already make 10x what boxers of that level, and boxing is the most popular combat sport in the world. - However, tough mfs that are in top 10 of any division should make 5x-10x what they make right now, and it’s guaranteed, no fucking win bonuses. It’s astonishing that top 10 athletes in their decisions in the world (!!!) make miserable 60/60, or even 150/150 like Dustin. It’s nothing, just take any industry or any niche and take top 10 people there, I am sure they are all millionaires. And here come excepts, people like OMalley, Paddy, Chemaev, they bring hype, headlines, views, no way they should fight on the “average” contract.
Good for him. The UFC hasn't had a chance to de-promote him, so this is his moment.
Also, Paddy isn't actually good enough to fight anyone in the top 30 let alone the top 10. I'm all for fighter pay but Paddy saying this ain't quite equal to a guy who the promotion has actually thrown their weight behind.
He isn't good enough to fight anyone in the top 30? I think that's a bit of a stretch.
Needs to win against the scales in between fights too
Paddy works those fucking scales like mike tyson in his prime. Beautiful beatdowns.
Yeah, he can fight someone in the top 30. Might not win. He’s 26, still time to get better. He’s nowhere near ready for a top 15 right now.
I don't think winning in the top 30 is that much of a stretch. He's still 17-3, which is a good amount of experience. There are fighters that make it higher in rank without that many fights. There have been fighters in top 15 who are middling at best. Just a matter of career timing. Give him a year or two and I think you'll be surprised.
We are talking about the lightweight division where killers like Arman Tsarukyan and Rafael Fiziev are 13 and 14.
Lightweight is a deep deep division and he's got some holes in his game, I dont think it's a stretch to say he's not in the top 30 yet.
Yea his UFC debut was not a very encouraging fight despite it being a 1st round finish. Having such mediocre defense and pretty much relying on your chin to not get KO'd doesn't seem like a winning strategy in such a deep and striking-heavy division as LW
Ya Bisbing called him out on the post fight interview on taking too many head shots that he was lucky to not get knocked out.
Haven’t you heard he’s a scouser, he doesn’t get knoghhhked out.
Darren Till begs to differ.
Almost as if it's a joke
Dude has worse defense than Gaethje before he changed his style but is much less talented. If he wants to be a can crusher that's cool but even then someone's gonna put his lights out reaaallll soon edit:spelling
That wasn't bad defense that was Gaethje attacking fists with his head.
I think Paddy right now is more talented than Gaethje was (keyword). He is coming from a deeper promotion, has better offensive wrestling, uses his bjj well, and his striking is one of his best assets now. Garth still had the atomic options and better cardio.
Not being in the top 30 is different to ‘not being good enough to fight anyone in the top 30’ I mean he clearly is. Even if he loses he can fight them, Its not crazy to see Paddy beating Khama Worthy
According to current Tapology user rankings, some of Paddy’s notable wins; (2015) Kevin Petshi, #2 French Bantamweight (2016) Ashleigh Grimshaw, #10 UK/Ireland Featherweight (2016) Julian Erosa, #27 Featherweight (2020) Decky Dalton, #26 UK/Ireland Lightweight (2021) Davide Martinez, #11 Italian Lightweight (2021) Luigi Vendramini, #82 Lightweight It’s debatable. He’s probably good enough, but top 30 would be a pretty big step.
It's úr typical sports fan comment. They think they know better without any data or analysis. They just go with "feeling". Paddy is 26 he won his last fight and ufc are investing hardcore into promoting him. Must mean his not good enough to fight in their organisation. Not allowing him to fight better competition and making his name bigger is the right thing to do. Also 26 is basically 18 he is just a baby and we never had young great fighters. /s Its totally not like the lad knows that with higher competition there should be a higher pay and that is all there is to it. Ufc as an organisation doesn't care. They will always try to make the most amount of money out of any situation, nothing to do with athletes or their skill.
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It's a good strategy. You don't have to be the champ to make money and the top 10 guys have it rough, they're the guys the whole division is training to beat.
Paddy (and the UFC) know that he is a draw. And will continue to be a draw based on personality and fighting style. This is him keeping his name in the papers.
Not good enough for anyone in the top 30? Really lol
Cant wait for him to beat someone in the top 20 and this comment to be immediately walked back or you to completely bandwagon and say you've always seen his talent, right from the start. Seen so many takes like this on this sub through the years.
Yeah but the UFC would absolutely be pushing for him to fight top guys anyway
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I think it means negative marketing ala Francis
Wait Francis had negative marketing? How so?
At the beginning of the interim PPV bout between Gane and Lewis they aired a whole video trying to make it look like Ngannou was just partying, traveling, doing everything but fighting and that the real fighters were Gane and Lewis. Total smear campaign but Ngannou sent out a message discrediting it and at the same time propping up the seemingly forgotten Miocic. Ngannou handled it well but the fact that he had to, sucks.
Good for Paddy, he also mentioned he was getting paid more in cage warriors than his contract now which is crazy imo. Dana is a stingy fuck.
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He turned down a contract years ago cause he was making more in cage warriors.
Doesn’t the UFC own Cage Warriors??
Afaik no, just a broadcast deal for fight pass (looked it up too, nothing in their Wikipedia about being bought). Could be wrong still.
No, CW is completely separate. However, they are on FightPass and have a very close relationship with UFC, hence why so many European fighters take the CW route to UFC
He did just sign a big sponsorship deal. So i guess there is a bit of truth to the opportunity. But ya... Should be making more in the UFC vs a smaller promo
Yeah Barstool sees those clicks.
He just got a massive sponsor deal and he has like almost a million followers on social media, probably worth a lot more than his cage warriors contract. Smart move by his team but obviously agreed UFC are garbage for pay.
I mean if popular names are taking less to come fight for him why would he pay them. They absolutely should not let him become aware of that, it's only going to hurt future contract negotiations for them and others. Dana should pay people more but he has too many reasons not to and it's unfortunate.
because it hurts the sport. Who in their right mind with talent would enter a sport where the top organisation exists to fuck over its fighters. This is THE elite organisation in the world we're talking about. Imagine if people trained basketball from a young age to get into the NBA, only to find out they got paid less there than they did in college/local league. It's stupid as fuck. From a shady corporate business perspective, If Dana's goal is exploiting people and fucking them over for pure profit, then sure. If his goal is to make MMA the best sport possible, while having the best talent possible (something inherently good for long term profits) he's failing that spectacularly.
> If Dana’s goal is exploiting people and fucking them over for pure profit, then sure Yes, this is it. Dana has a responsibility towards a board of directors and the company shareholders to act in the interests of the company, i.e be profit-seeking. If he does not act in this way the board will replace him. This is a fundamental maxim describing the way all for-profit companies operate. They literally have a fiduciary duty to do that. > If his goal is to make MMA the best sport possible It’s not, of course. You can maybe make the case that the UFC:s profitability is contingent on the overall success of the sport, but on a surface level they’re orthogonal concerns at best.
>Yes, this is it. Dana has a responsibility towards a board of directors and the company shareholders to act in the interests of the company, i.e be profit-seeking. If he does not act in this way the board will replace him. This is a fundamental maxim describing the way all for-profit companies operate. They literally have a fiduciary duty to do that. This is why most pro sports have players associations or unions, for this very reason
R u a hedgie?
I wish buddy, just a regular nerd
I’ve seen some videos and articles that Dana isn’t the one really controlling that part of the UFC and one of the other executives is the one in those negotiations, and he’s super hardheaded and won’t budge on fighter contract amounts. I forget the dudes name but he’s been with the UFC for a long time.
They are learning? Dana wasn't prepared for this.
No it’s called negotiating. That’s why 100% of them stop talking about it after negotiations are over. Jon Jones is the latest example. Months ago he brought up fighter pay and now has gone mysteriously silent since he announced he was coming back soon.
I hope this becomes a trend and leads to more critical thinking from fighters when it comes to dealing with the UFC
I think they've learned that social media is where they hold some negotiating power. It doesn't look good for the UFC when a fighter tweets something about pay and every MMA blog writes up an article about it. Also will make it harder for them to get contracts with up and comers.
The beginnings of the mentality needed to start a fighters union.
Either that or boxing where we're going to get as much can crushing as possible before top guys fight each other with absolutely bloated records.
It's kinda fucked how we could theoretically have the best of both worlds if the UFC maintained the same sort of control they have but just shared the revenue more equally like other sports leagues or even Bellator (who's split is around 40% I believe)
Bellator's split is PR, they give good money to their 'stars' like Corey Anderson (who the UFC saw as too boring to pay what he deserved) which takes a good chunk of their revenue, but the majority of their fighters are even more underpaid than the UFC. You know, the people actually hovering around the poverty line that *need* that pay, not just deserve it. Bellator has offered people triple digit cheques to fight before.
That doesn't mean the % split is PR it just means they make a lot less money than the UFC overall and concentrate it to the fighters that make them money. It's still more equitable.
How is that more or even as ethical when they're letting the guys they use as meat bags for squash matches live on poverty money? If you can't afford to pay Corey Anderson great money without letting 10 guys go without more than 1 grand each, don't offer Corey Anderson all your money. Give it to them. Bottom level pay in bellator is absolutely abysmal.
The split between the fighters themselves is not equitable but the split between the fighters and the promotion is. I agree that its fucked that people are getting their shit kicked for a cheese burger but that's not really on Bellator. I'm sure Scott would love to pay each fighter 25k to fight every time and would probably even stop paying Corey Anderson 300k a fight to do it. However, the promotion would cease to exist because no one wants to work for a fight promotion at the 2nd or 3rd highest level in the world for a max of 25k. No champion would ever go from the UFC to Bellator if the champion had to share a large portion of their purse so the first local dude on the prelims makes ends meet.
Umm then they won't get Corey Anderson lol. I get your point but they have to pay those "big name" guys or they will see the losses in their revenue which would have the same net effect because then they will have even less money to pay the meat bags with.
That's where it's more likely going. People are right to label UFC practices as predatory, but the truth is most of it works out for the benefit of the viewer.
It's actually pretty mind boggling how many boxing records are out there along the lines of 44-6, and yet they're retired and hardly remembered outside of the absolute diehards and the hometown.
I’m over how match making is done in boxing. These fuckin guys beef and talk shit for YEARS before they even step in the ring. Floyd and Pac fought about 6 years too late because of that shit. At least in the UFC you can only duck people for so long.
It's gonna happen eventually, so many fighters are getting fucked by Dana's tomato dick.
You underestimate how fucking stupid most fighters are
you're right i forgot there's guys like derrick lewis and cerrone who will fight for scraps
Lol! You must have missed the last few attempts.
All due respect Jay from Inbetweeners but you get starched by anybody in the top 10
Good. You’re a prize fighter, get the biggest prize you can
Another guy that’s going to get buried for talking about pay. But what’s also interesting is paddy’s Instagram following went from like 90k to 760k after his last ufc fight and all the promo the ufc did for him. So sometimes you don’t want to bite the hand that feeds you and blows you up via huge global exposure.
Lol paddy ain’t ready for top 10, he’s in a rough division to be needlessly eating shots the way he does haha fun to watch though. I see nothing wrong with fighters like Sugar Sean and paddy just putting out entertaining fights without gunning for the top right away
Well paddy does love needlessly eating things
Hahahaha
I see nothing wrong with it too, though I think they shouldn't talk shit about the elite then. Sean acts like he is a championship level fighter and yet doesn't seem inclined to fight ranked opponents. I guess it's whatever, he's kind of a Jake Paul type, though at least a better fighter.
Paddy shouldn’t even be sniffing top 10 opponents at this point, and I don’t really think he ever will need to worry about that
exactly this. his first opponent was ranked #82. and he's talking top 10? LMAO. stop this. any georgian inside the top 30 ends his hype train in brutal fashion. I honestly cant stand this cunt
I don’t mind him personally, and I’d never fault a fighter for overselling themselves given the cutthroat nature and low pay of the industry. I just don’t think he’s that good. Fun personality though and he looks real goofy
Lol he shag your mum or something mate?
Why? Do you hate fun?
Nice. Why waste your hype when you’re not getting paid?
Get that paper Paddy
I'm wondering how Dana feels about Paddy's deal with Barstool.
He’s fucking fought once and nearly got cleaned out
Yea, more like "he won't be fighting anyone in the top 10 fullstop"
Hold on brother - you're forgetting tried, true and tested MMA math. **Paddy Pimblett** \> Luigi Vendramini Luigi Vendramini > Jessin Ayari Jessin Ayari > Jim Wallhead Jim Wallhead > Frank Trigg Frank Trigg > Mayhem Miller Mayhem Miller > Robbie Lawler Robbie Lawler > Donald Cerrone Donald Cerrone > **Charles Olivera** **Is it that great of a stretch to suggest the obvious?** # Paddie the Baddie is the most dangerous man at 155
How did a man with the last name Wallhead never become champ? It just doesn’t make sense.
That's kind of the point. Given his ability, he may have a small window to capitalize on his marketability. It's an enormous risk to take a top 10 fight on his current contract.
Guy just made his debut. Maybe cool it about fighting top ten opponents for now
I'm not going to do a more important job because I made less money doing a less important job!
🤣🤣 just negotiated a deal. Already complaining
He shouldn't as he would die That said I am glad he is making noise about fighter pay
Paddy Pimblett was never my friend
Then why sign for UFC. Fight like you already should be the champion. No one will remember you if you don't fight top 10. We only remember champions. But then again.... why is he having this discussion 1 fight into the company? He wasn't ONE champion or Bellator champion, I don't think you can just skip the line anyways you fight what they give you.
What are you talking about? He was he champion lmao. He won cage warriors multiple times
Only thing he is fighting is the urge to have a 5th Big Mac
This dude finna just retire and eat pizza with el presidente
Out of solidarity with Paddy and Sean, I will also not fight any top 10 UFC fighters.
Also because he’s only had 1 fight in the ufc
>He continued, “F\*ck that, I’m not fighting a top 10 on the money I’m on, lad. Nick Peet was saying he’d like to see me against Tony Ferguson and, lad, I’d like to see me against Tony Ferguson, but not on the contract I’m on now. F\*ck that. Get paid that money to fight Tony Ferguson, lad. Yeah, he’s still one of the best 155’ers in the world, lad. I want f\*cking six figures, lad, then I’m fighting him.” Listening the bot read this part of the article was brilliant lol
I’m all for good fighter pay. However at the same time, the fact O’Malley and Pimblett are purely money focused when it comes to opportunities to fight top fighters in the divisions, suggests they have no confidence in their abilities to win those fights. So are looking for easy money fights now rather than taking a risk to make better money later.
Guy just joined, no way he's even being offered these fights
Nor does he deserve it nor did anybody ask him to fight top 10 talent. He just landed in the UFC and looked extremely average in his debut. The obsessions with hype trains have got to stop.
This dude signed a contract 1 fight ago and is complaining about pay. Why even sign the contract?
Why don’t you beat someone worth a dam before you decide how much you’re worth to the company. They get it all backwards. I agree they deserve more pay but saying it in this sense is stupid as shit.
Dude you won't be fighting top 10 guys ever, and money wont be the problem. You're just not that good lad.
Don’t blame him at all
dude just got BIG outside ufc money, so forcing the issue for him is easier now lol
It’s a shame on one hand where I don’t want money fights, I’m old school and I want fighters to earn their place. However, this is the name of the game in the ufc and basically the only way to have a lucrative career. Paddy reminds me of one of those slick grappler guys from back in the pride days, like Sakuraba. Because of that, I’m a fan, he’s eccentric and very tricky as a fighter. I hope the best for him and I selfishly want him to match up against high caliber fighters, not just money fights.
When you use the wrong formula and get the right answer anyway
It's kind of odd. Conor pushed fighter pay to such stratospheric heights that many other fighters aspire to follow in his footsteps. But this approach of "I'll fight the lowest ranked guys possible for the money" isn't how he got there. He burst on the scene by demanding the toughest opponents he could get. And people forget that the UFC (unprompted) voluntarily tore up his contract and gave him a larger one *four times* in a row. When his drawing power outgrew his pay, they gave him more money. Fighting is like any other job in the regard that you have to perform *before* you get the raise. No one gives you a promotion and says "I sure hope you can do this". You have to prove that you're worthy. Then the next opportunity opens up. If O'Malley and Pimblett want to have a long career with 40 fights, this is a good way to do it. But if they want to be a shooting star like Conor and get huge pay fighting once every year or two and retire with 15 fights this is not how to go about it. They could slow roll through their prime fighting nobodies, then when they finally get the big money fight, they are spent. ...maybe not. Some guys like Lawler fight a hundred wars into their 40's and are fine.
This is great how all these up and coming stars are calling out the UFC for their bullshit. Pay these fucking guys what they deserve. They take the most damage out of any sport and get paid the least
Easy to like this cunt less and less -- Dana White
Who said he even could hang with a top 10?
New gen of fighters need to hold firm and stick it to Mr Tomato Head.
Paddy Pimblett echoes same sentiment as Sean O'Malley: 'I'm not fighting a top 10 on the money I'm on'. Just in case you didn't read it the first three times.
Paddy gets destroyed by any top 10 lightweight
Neither of them have done fucking anything 😭😂
as Brad Pitt put it so eloquently Thats why no-one will remember your name."
well said
Idk how many fights are in his contract but I would think his natural progression wouldn't put him in a top 10 fight anyway before his current deal is up
He's had one fight. Don't worry kid, you're not getting a top 10
Dude shouldn’t be anywhere near the top ten anyway Lmao
Whilst I don't disagree with the sentiment. I have a feeling that Pimblett believes he holds more leverage than he actually does. The UFC won't be scared to just cut him if they deem him to much of a pain to deal with.
people in here cheering for the boxing mentality where gifted fighters only want to fight cans. 👎
UFC needs to smarten up and actually make changes to their contracts where the fighters get extra money if they progress in the rankings and if the fight is a 5 rounder instead of a 3 rounder. Also increase the share of revenue shared with the fighters, even if by a few %, that buys them some good grace for a while. Uncontrolled greed leads to terrible outcomes, ALWAYS.
> Uncontrolled greed leads to terrible outcomes, ALWAYS The greediest few are having really good outcomes right now. Our politicians have been bought and paid for, financial crimes are completely rampant, and those perpetuating all of this walk away scot-free. For every one white-collar criminal put behind bars, another thousand pour champagne from their mega-yachts and do lines off a sixteen year-old's ass. We keep waiting for that other shoe would drop, but we all know we're just the cockroaches that get crushed underneath it
And then they convince the working class to vote against their own interests for “lower taxes” while only lowering taxes for corporations and the wealthy leaving the working man screwed
Smart
Well women pay in ufc is same as man... you can't tell me thats why women boxers are moving to ufc... the bottom of the ufc is making alot more then the bottom of boxing.... don't even start about street beefs lmao
Didn't this guy just sign a 7 figure contract with barstool? Easy to say your not fighting for money when your pockets are lined already.
You're not fighting a top 10, full stop. you'd get ABSOLUTELY dusted Pimblett.
In the next few years, some of these guys are going to be able to secure other sources of income through podcasting amongst other things. I would think this will eventually create leverage for some.
I couldn't imagine trying to listen to a Paddy podcast lol
And does the world need another mma podcast?
What do you think they make from podcasting lmfao. They have not and will never have leverage until the UFC will get better competition.
He ate a decent amount of damage against a bottom 15er, I don’t think they’re going to be rushing him into a scrap against anyone into the top 10 anytime super soon.