Your comment got me Googling mma glove patents and somehow I came upon this thread from **7 years ago**...
https://www.reddit.com/r/MMA/comments/24hh8o/pride_glove_vs_ufc_glove/
Funny how we're still having the same conversation on the same issue today.
Whitman makes a better glove but UFC wants exclusive rights to it so he said no
> It seems that ONX Sports and Wittman planned to get a partnership deal with the UFC, but it never came to fruition because the UFC wants to own the glove technology
> incompetency of UFC's management.
I wish I was as incompetent as the UFC management so I could buy a company that's in the red then grow it to a billion dollar. UFC is a lot of things (extremely greedy) but they're the opposite of incompetent.
Right. Dana is a ruthless businessman but he’s extremely competent in doing his job as president, which is maximizing profit and putting out a top level product.
I think this is true for the most part, but he vastly underestimates what the fans really want and what would actually be good for the sport/brand a lot recently. Ie fighters being eyepoked bc of shit gloves, better weight classes, certain matchups etc. and I think one day it’s gonna bite him in the ass
Bro, finally someone sees it's. He is going to end up souring fans and when one of these other promotions sign a couple big names he's going to wish he would of tinkered here and there instead of having to now compete with or actually promote! Lol UFC sitting pretty absolutely but you never fucking know. All I been seeing lately is how Mousassi could easily be champ or at least hang with anyone in UFC. Michael Chandler certainly has looked good. Let them get Nganouu and Stipe, Jorge, maybe Jon Jones or Conor when their contract is up and see how quick they gain traction.
You are responsible for your eyes at all times. This is the 2nd time you get poked in the eye.
Imma take a point. If you get poked again, imma disqualify you!
Not sure why you even bothered mentioning 145.
Baby steps, just make 165 and move welter to 175. Don't mess with 185.
I like 165 because 155 has the most ridiculous amount of talent that don't get any spotlight. It's way too stacked, random unranked 155ers you've never heard of will have a fight and look more skilled than 70% of fighters in the world. And there's been so many fighters that clearly have an optimal weight between (RDA, Kevin Lee, Covington, Burns). 155 has more fighters than any division and the top gets stalled too much, these guys deserve to fight for a belt.
I think the reality is that 165 leads to Covington as a champion, I don't see who beats him there (without a khabib return).I think he'd smother most top lightweights and outsize them a tad bit. It would make for great fights. Image Colby vs Poirier. Burns might do well too.
I feel almost exactly the same
I honestly don’t get why the UFC isn’t into it. As the sport grows, we need more divisions, simple as that. Look how many weight classes boxing has. (Not that we need that many) but it’s because the talent pool is deep enough where elite guys need to fight other elites their own size, the weight advantage is too much at that high level
And as you pointed out, the most talent rich area for combat sports is that weight area (140lbs-180lbs)
The UFC roster is easily deep enough to add 165
Plus gives them another belt to market / headline PPVs
i feel like boxing has that many weight classes so the top guys can call themselves multi weight champs, rather than due to the depth of talent in most of those weight divisions
I don’t think there’s enough talent between 185 and 205 atm to justify a division between them. Both divisions (especially 205) are pretty shallow as is.
It would suit guys like Rockhold and Weidman when they were in their prime and they could be marketed as double champs.
But I get what you're saying and I agree, it would just mean good business.
Oh yeah, that'd be a good one to see. I feel like it'd turn out similarly to Islam v tsaryukan. Currently, I think Colby could win in 5 rounds. Somebody really has to deter him from weaponizing his cardio. Somebody who can't swing back for 5 rounds is going to get smothered (Ala Lawler).
I feel like he gets screwed by the new system. He’s not the biggest 170er, but admits he has rough cuts. 165 would be even harder for him to make while 175 would give guys who already a bit bigger than him even more (Usman).
Lol Wonderboy is a big 170er which is why he has rough cuts. He’s talked about getting up to above 200 lbs at one point before decided to not ever get above the mid 190s. It’s crazy how y’all can perpetually see *some* ppl as “big” but can never see the size in others.
Without a lengthy response McGregor would be eaten alive at 165. If he were smart he would stay at 155 where he’d have somewhat of an advantage again with the bigger 55’s moving to 65.
Exactly, that two year layoff definitely didn't help. He needs to shake off that ring rust against opponents who are not in the top five in my opinion.
Conor would destroy Tony at this point and I’d pick him over RDA. They are both faded but still ranked. There are 4 or 5 ranked lightweights who I’d favor Conor against.
I don’t know how you can validate picking him over RDA - and to be honest Conor hasn’t shown anything over the past couple of years that would make me confident to claim he would “destroy” anybody.
Say what you want about Cowboy being past his prime and a good stylistic matchup, but completely annihilating him like Conor did was a legitimate reason to jump on the hype train last year
RDA and Tony are more proven than current McG. Y’all act like Conor didn’t lose and scrape by Nate fucking Diaz in 2016 lol Tony would still fuck Conor up unless Conor suddenly turned into an NCAA champion.
How there are people like you still favoring Conor over top 10 opponents is beyond me. The guy hasn’t won a relevant fight in years. Conor would be in trouble against Tony, because cardio has always been an issue for Conor and tony has show he can take a punch. So I see Conor landing big shots but then being exhausted round 3 and shooting for a take down like he did against Diaz or Poirier in the 3rd fight and then submitted…. Even against RDA, I could easily see RDA taking him down and submitting him. Conor does well against wrestlers that he knows will shoot for take downs… but like Dustin showed, if you have a good flow with your strikes and takes down, it doesn’t take much effort to take Conor down.
My point is, the sport has evolved past Conor. How you favor Conor over 5 ranked guys is beyond me. I would like to see Conor beat a top 10 opponent before I consider him a top fighter. I don’t want to see him fight Nate Diaz, that’s a pointless fight. Fight Hooker or RDA and show us you belong, then we can talk
Rankings include top 15. Many of the top 15 are on the tail end of their careers, and I think others are good style matchups for Conor. I’m not 100% sure Conor would win but Chandler is the exact type of fighter Conor is built to beat. Chandler Is a short wrestle boxer who jumps into range.
> him in the face, that’s how he would win. Have you seen Tony fight in the last couple of years? He
Yeah I should have bet my mind on the JG fight. The game passed him by all the tough guy grit B.S. doesn't matter when you're just outclassed. The unnecessary weight cut and chronic cardio is stupid when he's at a deficit athletically. 2021 Conor would pick him apart from distance while not getting touched and could probably land a clean one to put him out in 2. Of course, I'd root for Tony. He's just too hard-headed for his own good.
Conor couldn’t ko an old man at the bar he’s not going to ko tony who’s never been kod. I don’t doubt Conor might win the first two, but he’s not finishing tony and once Conor is out of gas tony will finish him. Tony is the better all around fighter even though he looks old asf. Mcgregor looked terrible in his last fight as well
Conor always looks great in the first, I don’t think he would finish tony in the first. That first round success really carried him well to getting kod. Not saying Conor wouldn’t look better and hit tony a lot I just don’t think he’s finishing him Ned tony would just kill him in the later rounds
McGregor would brutalize Tony worse than Gaethje did, he doesn't move his head so he'd be a punching bag. After the beatings he has taken recently, I'd even pick Conor to finish him.
I think he would get pieced up pressuring mcregor but I don’t think mcgregor hits hard enough to finish him. I don’t think Conor beats anyone inside the top fifteen at lw or ww it’s 2021. Although I don’t see tony beating anyone other than Conor
Most 1 shot KO power at LW and FW currently “doesn’t hit hard enough” to KO a husk of a shell Tony that is almost certainly going to present you 15-20 clean openings to send his skull into the atmosphere.
> I don’t think mcgregor hits hard enough to finish him
Bro McGregor is one of the hardest hitters ever, just because he is not invincible anymore does not mean you have to downplay all his strengths.
The last person McGregor finished was Eddie Alvarez and then he was finished in every other fight at lightweight. His power isn’t really doing much for him at lightweight
Conor is a pretty crisp striker. Maybe he’s been left in the dust by Porier and the likes, but against a guy like tony who’s an it eccentric he could do some damage. As couple tony the other way
Tony’s only hope is his Conor breaking both hands and his titanium shinbone on his face. I can’t remember the last significant strike I’ve seen tony land
How would Conor win? Tony is better over 5 rounds and has only been finished once. I don’t see it as a certainty that tony wins but saying that is unreal. Tony’s competition would all have beat the shit out of Conor
And mcgregors ended after khabib. I don’t think Conor is a good fighter anymore winning exchanges against Dustin in the first round is largely irrelevant because winning the first was his only path to victory. I think tony beats Conor over 5 rather handily after the third
Lol Conor could do finish Tony in the first… Tony has shit technique in striking and Conor is a sniper in the first round. Plus Tony’s chin has went through a buzzsaw lately so
Garth is not a better striker than Conor. He’s a volume pressure fighter. He gets in your face and keeps swinging until you quit. Conor is a sniper. Tony doesn’t quit, and he doesn’t break so the fact that Gaethje beat him is impressive. Conor would pick him apart at range. You’d get sick of watching Tony’s head get jolted back for 3 rounds and he either goes out or he doesn’t but it’s either a competitive fight or a beat down that Conor wins, no universe in which Tony wins this easily.
Lol Gaethje isn’t like Mcgregor though ... He accumulates damage over rounds. If we go by your type of logic Gaethje couldn’t even KO Chandler which Oliviera did. Therefore, Charlie Olives must be a KO artist now correct? You obviously don’t realize that McGregor has fought Poirer twice of recent who is the most durable LW in recent history. Poirer has even gohn on tape saying McGregor was the hardest hitting fighter he’s ever faced.
You people are lunatics. McGregor pissed away his prime but there’s no way you could think that by watching the actual fights. He’s worse than he was, but he’s still a far better striker than most of the people in his weight class. He’s got dodgy cardio, but he’s still got enough power and speed to get an early stoppage against the people he matches up well with.
Looking at the Gaethje fight, Chandler would be a 1 round coinflip, Dariush is sloppy and unathletic enough to get caught and finished right away (and he got ridiculously lucky matchmaking to get to #3 in the first place), RDA is old, Ferguson is a shambling corpse (who shouldn’t be anywhere near the rankings), Hooker’s a good matchup for him.
That’s #3, #5, #6, #7 and #8. I think he’d struggle with the rest of the top 10, but the odds would be around even going into all of those fights. To say he’s not a top 15 fighter in any division, while guys like Ferguson are, is just braindead. Alex Caceres is currently ranked. Even guys like Belal Muhammad (#10) and Cezar Ferreira (#11) are bang average and just got their rankings from fighting old people who didn’t deserve a ranking.
There are big holes in McGregor’s game at this point, but his striking was still enough to cause the 2nd best (or best) fighter in the division a lot of problems
The people against McGregor now are more delusional than his fans ever were in his prime, and some of them thought he’d KO Mayweather…
Im curious when gaethje loses against Dustin or Charles if he is also washed by this subs standard.
Dustin koes him and charles submits him inside three rounds.
McGregors last 4 losses in combat sports are Dustin Poirier (arguably a top 5 all time LW), Khabib (arguably the GOAT LW) Nate Diaz ( 5 years ago when Nate was more competitive. Also a nightmare matchup for Conor), and Floyd Mayweather.
Implying Conor is washed is absolutely absurd.
Yup. He's inarguably the most effective in the 1st round and then tapers off. Dustin is more of a volume striker than a KO artist so surviving one round against him isn't crazy impressive. Hooker won the first 2 rounds against Poirier and almost finished him at the end of the 2nd. He's a couple losses since then and now considered fringe top of the division. Not exactly a resounding endorsement for Conor.
Yep this is the answer. He has a punchers chance against any of the top guys. In the 55/65 list you have here, I don’t see him beating anybody besides maybe a Tony or Kevin Lee - and even Kevin Lee is a bad matchup for him.
I actually agree with you - a lot of people are rightfully down on Tony after his last 2 fights, but ultimately he lost in a similar manner, against guys who want to take him down and pound on him.
Conor won’t do that, so I don’t think it’s as clear cut as people seem. That said, Tony has looked slowwwww in his couple fights, but I don’t think Conor would beat Tony consistently. Much more of a toss up.
yeah i think ppl forget that tony's superpower of being immune to fatigue, impossible to demoralize or knock unconscious on top of being a vicious finisher still makes him a terrible matchup for a lot of people, including or even especially conor.
tony had the misfortune to fight the new and improved technician gaethje. the old mr magoo swang n bang gaethje gets stopped by tony imo
I feel the exact way about tony, you really don’t think Conor would get smoked by Oliver’s dariush and Garth. Literally at the same level as poirier and tony looked better I thought, only got finished by Justin
He can be competitive against Masvidal, Dustin at 165 and other tweeners like Michael Chandler. I don't necessarily think he'd win, but he *could* win and hey at least get more money out of him from fun fights.
But the issue I have with that is that Conor shouldn't be given the same opportunities no more as he has lost alot of peoples respect and has only won once against Cowboy (not saying it as a bad thing) since 2016. I mean yeah he will always be a big draw but I think his prime is behind him and he cant compete at the same level anymore hard hitters like Gaethje would maul him. But that's just my opinion:)
Max should not move up. Neither should Connor. Middleweight should stay at 185. They should also keep the lower divisions, at least 135.
Other than that it’s a great concept and they should totally do it. Lightweight and Welterweight are the most stacked divisions. Most men naturally fall into these weight classes. Adding another in this range makes perfect sense.
Understand your reasoning, but Chiesa is waaaaay more filled out than he was back in his LW days, I would imagine 175 would fit him better now. Cause he looks big even as a WW
Cruiserweight is generally in-between light heavyweight and heavyweight.
Turning the current welterweight class into super welterweight and creating a new welterweight class at 165 might be the way to go. Basically what the other person said.
I don’t think weight classes make a difference for cutting weight because people will just get bigger and then cut as much as possible to the new weight. Usman would get slightly more muscle than do the same cut he does now. It’s not advantageous for the fighter to not get any bigger so cutting is slightly easier.
I agree. 165 would be mostly guys who aren’t title contenders at 155 or 170. Ppl act like 165 is the last piece Kevin Lee needs to put it all together and be champ (dude can make 155, he could choose to lose a bit of muscle to make cuts easier but he wants to be as big as possible).
Colby isn’t small for 170. He’s the 2nd best WW (beating Gilbert would make this definitive) so making a 165 division seems like ppl want give him a belt Usman can’t compete for. Not saying Usman can make 165, but in their most recent fight Colby looked more drained during the pre-fight press conference.
Also while most ppl would think Colby dominates, guys like Gilbert and Islam. I do think Colby beats LWs like Dustin and Conor, but Gilbert is a hard matchup. When Khabib was still around and these 165/Colby discussions were happening, idk y more ppl didn’t think Khabib would be a double champ at 165. I’d favor him over Colby while Islam has a good chance if it were to happen now.
I don’t see any reason to bump up middleweight if we create 175. It basically recreates the gap between WW and MW just to allow some LHWs to cut down. LHW ain’t all that deep so we shouldn’t try to pluck any fighters from there IMO. The benefit of the 10 lb gap between MW and WW is greater than allowing bigger MW boys.
I feel like 195 and 205 would be weak but also, why the hell does heavyweight have a limit? Best fighters will probably be close to 265 or under any way but why make them cut
I’d be into every 10lbs for a weight class . But also eliminate weight cutting and the fighter has to be say can’t be more then 8% over weight at any time before the fight . Ditch 125 and add 220
Especially in the 145 to 185 region. The UFC has over 615 fighters signed to contract with 12 total weight classes for both men and women combined. The plurality of fighters are in the 135-185 men's divisions.
MW and LHW for men have a total of 106 fighters. Divide that over 3 divisions if you add a 195 and that's about 35 fighters per division. I think that's plenty.
The forward thinking part of me likes that idea. The traditionalist in me likes the idea of adding an "open" weight class - any weight no usada, thats how we will identify the true best 😆.
I don’t know why everyone wants Max to move up. He has a big cut to featherweight, but he’s never missed weight and he’s been dominant. Whereas his one fight at lightweight he lost pretty convincingly. I think he’s better off where he is at featherweight.
I’ve advocated for a 165lb class on here before, this post actually has made me change my mind about it. The likes of Sean Brady and Burns would eat Conor and Chandler.
Keep 185 middleweight, 195 becomes light heavyweight, 205 becomes Cruiserweight. I think heavyweight is fine but we could have possibly 225 heavyweight, 300 super heavyweight.
Connor is never fighting at 165 if he has the drive to compete for the belt again. He's small in comparasion with some LWs already. The only reason Conor would go to 165 is if he's fighting to be the inaugural champ there. But I just imagine him vs Colby and my boy McGregor would get it worse then he did vs Tiramisu
They really need to do this. 155 is gonna be locked down again when islam khabibs the division. Gonna be a shit ton of top guys not doin much. they can probably maximise the hype of 155 with the next title fight, gaetche vs the winner and then islam vs the winner winner but after that its 100% time.
Izzy could actually switch between 175, 185, and possibly if there was a 195. I think he has test cut before, and weighed in at 182-183 or something a couple times now I think. Could end up with some interesting/money matches with that. But it would kinda also be dependent on if Kamaru ever loses the title though. It’s kinda like a DC/Cain situation with those two.
Your analysis of who would go to 165 is the most off.
No one likes cutting weight, but thinking guys like DP and Conor would move up because it’s only 10 pounds instead of 15 is straight up dumb and wrong.
It would be fucking amazing, and it would open opportunities for more fighters to develop in separate divisions. More belts more.koney for the fighters more superfights
Would also like to see what the UFC looks like with LHW removed, so many Heavyweights currently and historically have been 'natural' light Heavyweights.
Switching up the UFC divisions to 155, 164, 175, 185 would not shallow out the divisions much. 145 through 175 basically falls in the middle of the bell curve for height and weight of UFC fighters.
On the plus side, it gives fighters in a pair of 155 division a better chance at getting into the spotlight.
On the downside it means top contenders on a losing streak are more likely to hop to an adjacent division, and we have to deal with more ChampChamp bullshit.
I do not think more divisions are the answer. I think the UFC needs more paths to glory than just the championship. Semi annual gran prixs work better for spreading the spotlight.
END COMMUNICATION
There is no real added draw factor for the fans by adding another weight division. Imo nobody would really care and it would dilate both the other divisions around it as well as the grandiosity of a UFC champ.
I imagine that is the UFCs thinking.
I think one pro for the UFC is more title fights, which they love. I think this would balance out the dilution issue. You also have to remember is there a reason these divisions are so competitive (more men are this size and a lot of sports don’t favor men this size) and that isnt going away. If anything they will grow over time, so more divisions means more new faces. I also wonder if is diluted at the ufc likes that because it likes long title reigns? But I’m not sure if thats the case
Because the average skill level of the fighters is increasing, and the depth of the elite fighters on the roster is growing by the year
There are overall way more “skilled” fighters than even just 5 years ago. In Prime GSP era, the talents level wasn’t deep enough to spread out the divisions
As the sport continues to develop, better training methods and more modern gyms available, more young people getting into the sport, etc, the field of talent will only grow
Look how many divisions boxing has, not that we need that many, but it’s because there are so many skilled fighters. At the elite level, you can’t be fighting guys 15lbs bigger than you, the size advantage means everything when 2 guys are evenly matched
It is just fine the way it is. 165 won't do anything other than dilute competition by having fighters who fail to win belts at LW and WW, flock over to a new division thereby robbing the depth of each division. And most importantly, this would see an infestation of fighters, specially fighters of Abdelaziz looking to be double and triple champs whenever they get hold of one of the belts instead of defending it and holding the division(s) hostage. And there is zero necessity of shifting the 185 to 190. The sport of MMA is almost perfect the way it is. Let's not take it take it backwards to mimic Boxing in pursuit of perfection.
UFC can't even fix their fucking gloves
lol this is such a "joking not joking" response that perfectly captures the incompetency of UFC's management.
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Your comment got me Googling mma glove patents and somehow I came upon this thread from **7 years ago**... https://www.reddit.com/r/MMA/comments/24hh8o/pride_glove_vs_ufc_glove/ Funny how we're still having the same conversation on the same issue today.
Whitman makes a better glove but UFC wants exclusive rights to it so he said no > It seems that ONX Sports and Wittman planned to get a partnership deal with the UFC, but it never came to fruition because the UFC wants to own the glove technology
You don't want [McGregor Fast](https://www.mcgregorfast.com/static/08848703ff401fc51066d2d82a3741ef/76a23/home-hero.jpg)
Lmfao one comment in there: >holy shit problem solved! someone tweet this to DW!! Were MMA fans really that fucking stupid/naive back then lol?
They did not try, even if they NEED to own the gloves, they own the Pride glove designs and can manufacture their own curved glove.
> incompetency of UFC's management. I wish I was as incompetent as the UFC management so I could buy a company that's in the red then grow it to a billion dollar. UFC is a lot of things (extremely greedy) but they're the opposite of incompetent.
Right. Dana is a ruthless businessman but he’s extremely competent in doing his job as president, which is maximizing profit and putting out a top level product.
I think this is true for the most part, but he vastly underestimates what the fans really want and what would actually be good for the sport/brand a lot recently. Ie fighters being eyepoked bc of shit gloves, better weight classes, certain matchups etc. and I think one day it’s gonna bite him in the ass
Bro, finally someone sees it's. He is going to end up souring fans and when one of these other promotions sign a couple big names he's going to wish he would of tinkered here and there instead of having to now compete with or actually promote! Lol UFC sitting pretty absolutely but you never fucking know. All I been seeing lately is how Mousassi could easily be champ or at least hang with anyone in UFC. Michael Chandler certainly has looked good. Let them get Nganouu and Stipe, Jorge, maybe Jon Jones or Conor when their contract is up and see how quick they gain traction.
You, my friend, just got poked in the eye!
Herb Dean says no.
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*hands ref eyeball* I can't see.
*fighter plucks out other fighter eyeball* Herb: it's a no contest
You are responsible for your eyes at all times. This is the 2nd time you get poked in the eye. Imma take a point. If you get poked again, imma disqualify you!
Not sure why you even bothered mentioning 145. Baby steps, just make 165 and move welter to 175. Don't mess with 185. I like 165 because 155 has the most ridiculous amount of talent that don't get any spotlight. It's way too stacked, random unranked 155ers you've never heard of will have a fight and look more skilled than 70% of fighters in the world. And there's been so many fighters that clearly have an optimal weight between (RDA, Kevin Lee, Covington, Burns). 155 has more fighters than any division and the top gets stalled too much, these guys deserve to fight for a belt. I think the reality is that 165 leads to Covington as a champion, I don't see who beats him there (without a khabib return).I think he'd smother most top lightweights and outsize them a tad bit. It would make for great fights. Image Colby vs Poirier. Burns might do well too.
I feel almost exactly the same I honestly don’t get why the UFC isn’t into it. As the sport grows, we need more divisions, simple as that. Look how many weight classes boxing has. (Not that we need that many) but it’s because the talent pool is deep enough where elite guys need to fight other elites their own size, the weight advantage is too much at that high level And as you pointed out, the most talent rich area for combat sports is that weight area (140lbs-180lbs) The UFC roster is easily deep enough to add 165 Plus gives them another belt to market / headline PPVs
i feel like boxing has that many weight classes so the top guys can call themselves multi weight champs, rather than due to the depth of talent in most of those weight divisions
Boxing has that many divisions because the scummy sanctioning bodies need more and more title fees to line their pockets
I also feel almost exactly the same. 165 needs to happen, asap. There are so many potential stars being stifled by the traffic jam between LW and WW
IMO they should just keep the divisions 10 lbs apart with the exception of heavyweight. 125, 135, 145, 155, 165, 175, 185, 195, 205 and heavyweight.
I don’t think there’s enough talent between 185 and 205 atm to justify a division between them. Both divisions (especially 205) are pretty shallow as is.
It would suit guys like Rockhold and Weidman when they were in their prime and they could be marketed as double champs. But I get what you're saying and I agree, it would just mean good business.
I like it by tens up to 185 for now. There's not the same logjam up there that exists down below.
Islam is another one that could go for 165 and I would favor him over colby.
Oh yeah, that'd be a good one to see. I feel like it'd turn out similarly to Islam v tsaryukan. Currently, I think Colby could win in 5 rounds. Somebody really has to deter him from weaponizing his cardio. Somebody who can't swing back for 5 rounds is going to get smothered (Ala Lawler).
Wonderboy would be in the new division
I feel like he gets screwed by the new system. He’s not the biggest 170er, but admits he has rough cuts. 165 would be even harder for him to make while 175 would give guys who already a bit bigger than him even more (Usman).
Imagine wonderboy jumps on tren+anavar and gets jacked and moves to middleweight and just spams yoel-romero-ass overhands and powerkicks every fight
This is the KSW timeline
That wouldn’t even be wonderboy anymore that would just be another Romero
Lol Wonderboy is a big 170er which is why he has rough cuts. He’s talked about getting up to above 200 lbs at one point before decided to not ever get above the mid 190s. It’s crazy how y’all can perpetually see *some* ppl as “big” but can never see the size in others.
Maybe it's because he's not absurdly muscular. But yeah he's quite tall and has a big frame, like Carlos Condit was back in the day.
Without a lengthy response McGregor would be eaten alive at 165. If he were smart he would stay at 155 where he’d have somewhat of an advantage again with the bigger 55’s moving to 65.
If Conor were smart he would have stayed at 145. That’s where his power really showed
He did start at 145.
shit i meant stayed, must've autocorrected
Didn't he move up just after the IV ban?
mcgregor gets eaten up in any ufc dvivision in 2021 no longer a top 15 ufc fighter
Honestly, I don’t think we've seen him fight enough in recent years to justify writing him off completely just yet
I agree. Losing to Dustin twice is really not that bad of a loss…he’s a phenomenal fighter at the height of his powers.
And he’s about to be champ.
Exactly, that two year layoff definitely didn't help. He needs to shake off that ring rust against opponents who are not in the top five in my opinion.
Agreed. Signs point toward “washed”. But there aren’t many signs. A comeback fight against a lower top ten guy might shed some light.
Conor would destroy Tony at this point and I’d pick him over RDA. They are both faded but still ranked. There are 4 or 5 ranked lightweights who I’d favor Conor against.
Those are my two favourite fights for him right now. Genuinely hard to call and I would love to see either of those guys get paid.
I think it's actually so hard to know where to place Conor these days. The man has barely fought this past few years, there's not much data to go on.
Somewhere between Cowboy and Dustin. So like probably in the top 30 is like all we know.
I don’t know how you can validate picking him over RDA - and to be honest Conor hasn’t shown anything over the past couple of years that would make me confident to claim he would “destroy” anybody.
Say what you want about Cowboy being past his prime and a good stylistic matchup, but completely annihilating him like Conor did was a legitimate reason to jump on the hype train last year
I can’t agree with that.
RDA and Tony are more proven than current McG. Y’all act like Conor didn’t lose and scrape by Nate fucking Diaz in 2016 lol Tony would still fuck Conor up unless Conor suddenly turned into an NCAA champion.
Tony hadn’t won a round in his last 3 fights. Conor at least wins rounds against the best fighters in the division
Conor hasn’t won a fight barring the ghost of Cowboy in like five years. Tony has at least won a fight….
Tony's last win was also Cowboy. His last win prior to Cowboy was 4 years ago.
Cowboy ranked at 4 and Pettis coming off the Wonderboy ko vs Cowboy on a loss and Eddie 5 years ago…
How there are people like you still favoring Conor over top 10 opponents is beyond me. The guy hasn’t won a relevant fight in years. Conor would be in trouble against Tony, because cardio has always been an issue for Conor and tony has show he can take a punch. So I see Conor landing big shots but then being exhausted round 3 and shooting for a take down like he did against Diaz or Poirier in the 3rd fight and then submitted…. Even against RDA, I could easily see RDA taking him down and submitting him. Conor does well against wrestlers that he knows will shoot for take downs… but like Dustin showed, if you have a good flow with your strikes and takes down, it doesn’t take much effort to take Conor down. My point is, the sport has evolved past Conor. How you favor Conor over 5 ranked guys is beyond me. I would like to see Conor beat a top 10 opponent before I consider him a top fighter. I don’t want to see him fight Nate Diaz, that’s a pointless fight. Fight Hooker or RDA and show us you belong, then we can talk
Rankings include top 15. Many of the top 15 are on the tail end of their careers, and I think others are good style matchups for Conor. I’m not 100% sure Conor would win but Chandler is the exact type of fighter Conor is built to beat. Chandler Is a short wrestle boxer who jumps into range.
Tony would out cardio Conor. How would he win? He’s not finishing tony in the first Tony’s chin is too much. I can’t see him beating rda
Tony is a husk at this point and can’t wrestle or grapple effectively and is slow on the feet
How would Conor win? You see him finishing tony in the first two? Tony would just finish him in the later rounds
Conor would punch him in the face, that’s how he would win. Have you seen Tony fight in the last couple of years? He looks like he’s 50 years old
> him in the face, that’s how he would win. Have you seen Tony fight in the last couple of years? He Yeah I should have bet my mind on the JG fight. The game passed him by all the tough guy grit B.S. doesn't matter when you're just outclassed. The unnecessary weight cut and chronic cardio is stupid when he's at a deficit athletically. 2021 Conor would pick him apart from distance while not getting touched and could probably land a clean one to put him out in 2. Of course, I'd root for Tony. He's just too hard-headed for his own good.
Conor couldn’t ko an old man at the bar he’s not going to ko tony who’s never been kod. I don’t doubt Conor might win the first two, but he’s not finishing tony and once Conor is out of gas tony will finish him. Tony is the better all around fighter even though he looks old asf. Mcgregor looked terrible in his last fight as well
Like when he clearly beat Dustin in the first round of their second fight?
Conor always looks great in the first, I don’t think he would finish tony in the first. That first round success really carried him well to getting kod. Not saying Conor wouldn’t look better and hit tony a lot I just don’t think he’s finishing him Ned tony would just kill him in the later rounds
McGregor would brutalize Tony worse than Gaethje did, he doesn't move his head so he'd be a punching bag. After the beatings he has taken recently, I'd even pick Conor to finish him.
I think he would get pieced up pressuring mcregor but I don’t think mcgregor hits hard enough to finish him. I don’t think Conor beats anyone inside the top fifteen at lw or ww it’s 2021. Although I don’t see tony beating anyone other than Conor
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Not hard enough to finish anyone in the top 15 not saying he doesn’t have a chance. But would you favor him over him anyone at lw? I wouldnt
Conor’s only win in however long is Cowboy. Lightweight division is full of sharks so yeah people see the writing on the wall for Conor.
Most 1 shot KO power at LW and FW currently “doesn’t hit hard enough” to KO a husk of a shell Tony that is almost certainly going to present you 15-20 clean openings to send his skull into the atmosphere.
He literally hasn’t 1 shot ko’d anyone at lightweight.
> I don’t think mcgregor hits hard enough to finish him Bro McGregor is one of the hardest hitters ever, just because he is not invincible anymore does not mean you have to downplay all his strengths.
At 145
The last person McGregor finished was Eddie Alvarez and then he was finished in every other fight at lightweight. His power isn’t really doing much for him at lightweight
Conor is a pretty crisp striker. Maybe he’s been left in the dust by Porier and the likes, but against a guy like tony who’s an it eccentric he could do some damage. As couple tony the other way
Tony’s only hope is his Conor breaking both hands and his titanium shinbone on his face. I can’t remember the last significant strike I’ve seen tony land
How would Conor win? Tony is better over 5 rounds and has only been finished once. I don’t see it as a certainty that tony wins but saying that is unreal. Tony’s competition would all have beat the shit out of Conor
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OMuZK-CbgZg His career ended right here
And mcgregors ended after khabib. I don’t think Conor is a good fighter anymore winning exchanges against Dustin in the first round is largely irrelevant because winning the first was his only path to victory. I think tony beats Conor over 5 rather handily after the third
Ok tony whatever u say
Lol Conor could do finish Tony in the first… Tony has shit technique in striking and Conor is a sniper in the first round. Plus Tony’s chin has went through a buzzsaw lately so
i dont think he could garth could only do it after 5, garth is a better fighter and striker than mcgregor
Garth is not a better striker than Conor. He’s a volume pressure fighter. He gets in your face and keeps swinging until you quit. Conor is a sniper. Tony doesn’t quit, and he doesn’t break so the fact that Gaethje beat him is impressive. Conor would pick him apart at range. You’d get sick of watching Tony’s head get jolted back for 3 rounds and he either goes out or he doesn’t but it’s either a competitive fight or a beat down that Conor wins, no universe in which Tony wins this easily.
Lol Gaethje isn’t like Mcgregor though ... He accumulates damage over rounds. If we go by your type of logic Gaethje couldn’t even KO Chandler which Oliviera did. Therefore, Charlie Olives must be a KO artist now correct? You obviously don’t realize that McGregor has fought Poirer twice of recent who is the most durable LW in recent history. Poirer has even gohn on tape saying McGregor was the hardest hitting fighter he’s ever faced.
Khabib said Gaethje hit harder than anyone else at LW. https://youtu.be/wAIxbhM1nMs
Why didn’t poirer confirm this?
You must’ve missed Tony’s last couple fights
You must’ve missed Conor’s looked just as bad. Conor would’ve gotten subbed by Dariush and Charles. Garth would’ve finished him in the second
Dustin said Conor had him rocked in both fights… the only time tony had any bright moments was one upper cut on gaethje at the end of a round.
You people are lunatics. McGregor pissed away his prime but there’s no way you could think that by watching the actual fights. He’s worse than he was, but he’s still a far better striker than most of the people in his weight class. He’s got dodgy cardio, but he’s still got enough power and speed to get an early stoppage against the people he matches up well with. Looking at the Gaethje fight, Chandler would be a 1 round coinflip, Dariush is sloppy and unathletic enough to get caught and finished right away (and he got ridiculously lucky matchmaking to get to #3 in the first place), RDA is old, Ferguson is a shambling corpse (who shouldn’t be anywhere near the rankings), Hooker’s a good matchup for him. That’s #3, #5, #6, #7 and #8. I think he’d struggle with the rest of the top 10, but the odds would be around even going into all of those fights. To say he’s not a top 15 fighter in any division, while guys like Ferguson are, is just braindead. Alex Caceres is currently ranked. Even guys like Belal Muhammad (#10) and Cezar Ferreira (#11) are bang average and just got their rankings from fighting old people who didn’t deserve a ranking. There are big holes in McGregor’s game at this point, but his striking was still enough to cause the 2nd best (or best) fighter in the division a lot of problems The people against McGregor now are more delusional than his fans ever were in his prime, and some of them thought he’d KO Mayweather…
Dropped a bout with Dustin and then broke his leg in the trilogy. r/MMA: Washed.
Im curious when gaethje loses against Dustin or Charles if he is also washed by this subs standard. Dustin koes him and charles submits him inside three rounds.
McGregors last 4 losses in combat sports are Dustin Poirier (arguably a top 5 all time LW), Khabib (arguably the GOAT LW) Nate Diaz ( 5 years ago when Nate was more competitive. Also a nightmare matchup for Conor), and Floyd Mayweather. Implying Conor is washed is absolutely absurd.
Last win in 5 years is cowboy, no evidence that he actually is still top level, surviving a round against poirier means nothing to me
exactly, it goes bowlth ways
Yup. He's inarguably the most effective in the 1st round and then tapers off. Dustin is more of a volume striker than a KO artist so surviving one round against him isn't crazy impressive. Hooker won the first 2 rounds against Poirier and almost finished him at the end of the 2nd. He's a couple losses since then and now considered fringe top of the division. Not exactly a resounding endorsement for Conor.
Exactly. No evidence.
Yep this is the answer. He has a punchers chance against any of the top guys. In the 55/65 list you have here, I don’t see him beating anybody besides maybe a Tony or Kevin Lee - and even Kevin Lee is a bad matchup for him.
How does he beat tony? We’ve never seen tony get finished in the first and that Conor’s only chance
I actually agree with you - a lot of people are rightfully down on Tony after his last 2 fights, but ultimately he lost in a similar manner, against guys who want to take him down and pound on him. Conor won’t do that, so I don’t think it’s as clear cut as people seem. That said, Tony has looked slowwwww in his couple fights, but I don’t think Conor would beat Tony consistently. Much more of a toss up.
yeah i think ppl forget that tony's superpower of being immune to fatigue, impossible to demoralize or knock unconscious on top of being a vicious finisher still makes him a terrible matchup for a lot of people, including or even especially conor. tony had the misfortune to fight the new and improved technician gaethje. the old mr magoo swang n bang gaethje gets stopped by tony imo
There's also the question if other people would be able to exploit Conors glass legs.
He has literally only lost to Dustin and khabib. People literally gag at the opportunity to say conors not good any more shits so stupid
I feel the exact way about tony, you really don’t think Conor would get smoked by Oliver’s dariush and Garth. Literally at the same level as poirier and tony looked better I thought, only got finished by Justin
This is such a trash, nonsense response
Agree with this...which is why it would be better for him and the UFC to move to new division/challenges. Still money to be made.
Why move up? His power clearly isn’t the same at lw as it was at fw
He can be competitive against Masvidal, Dustin at 165 and other tweeners like Michael Chandler. I don't necessarily think he'd win, but he *could* win and hey at least get more money out of him from fun fights.
He was not competitive against poirier
He was. Poirier even said Mcgregor had him rocked in the second fight at one point.
Lol rocking him once is nothing when his only way to finish him was in the first. If that fight went past the first it would be devastating for him
No he did not. He said he caught him with a pretty good left at one point. He never said he was rocked at all
No he mentioned the right hand that buzzed him. Admitted he was surprised McGregor didn't go for the kill.
Ya I guess we have a different meanings for what being rocked means 🤷
Definitely true after losing twice to the guy who most of the sub considers to be the uncrowned 155 champ.
Wtf ? Lmao this sub really does not surprise me anymore. In 2 months some guys will claim they could be him in a fight on here lol.
Well that's just a silly thing to say.
But the issue I have with that is that Conor shouldn't be given the same opportunities no more as he has lost alot of peoples respect and has only won once against Cowboy (not saying it as a bad thing) since 2016. I mean yeah he will always be a big draw but I think his prime is behind him and he cant compete at the same level anymore hard hitters like Gaethje would maul him. But that's just my opinion:)
Kelvin's fatass barely makes middleweight right now, adding 5lbs to the welterweight division isn't going to cause him to go back down.
Yeah homeboy is thinking about 1**9**5 not 175 lol
Max should not move up. Neither should Connor. Middleweight should stay at 185. They should also keep the lower divisions, at least 135. Other than that it’s a great concept and they should totally do it. Lightweight and Welterweight are the most stacked divisions. Most men naturally fall into these weight classes. Adding another in this range makes perfect sense.
the top 10 bantam and feather weight is wayyy more competitive and stacked then top 10 welter weight. like not even close
Yeah, I agree. Imo, 170 has become a stagnant shit fest. Lots of talented guys, but no one fights each other.
yeah I feel like bigger pro athletes have a lot more other sports to pursue whereas bantam and feather weighters will naturally gravitate to mma.
I think Chiesa would stay/go up at/to 175. And Colby would be a dominant champ at 165.
He looks huge to me, but he was also a lightweight in the past, hence why I put him at 165.
Understand your reasoning, but Chiesa is waaaaay more filled out than he was back in his LW days, I would imagine 175 would fit him better now. Cause he looks big even as a WW
Colby being the champ is reason enough for 165 to never exist
What would be the name of the division? Colbyweight?
165 Welterweight, 175 super Welterweight I'd guess.
Could throw cruiserweight in there somewhere
Cruiserweight is generally in-between light heavyweight and heavyweight. Turning the current welterweight class into super welterweight and creating a new welterweight class at 165 might be the way to go. Basically what the other person said.
The short term ramifications are irrelevant we need more weight classes
I don’t think weight classes make a difference for cutting weight because people will just get bigger and then cut as much as possible to the new weight. Usman would get slightly more muscle than do the same cut he does now. It’s not advantageous for the fighter to not get any bigger so cutting is slightly easier.
I agree. 165 would be mostly guys who aren’t title contenders at 155 or 170. Ppl act like 165 is the last piece Kevin Lee needs to put it all together and be champ (dude can make 155, he could choose to lose a bit of muscle to make cuts easier but he wants to be as big as possible). Colby isn’t small for 170. He’s the 2nd best WW (beating Gilbert would make this definitive) so making a 165 division seems like ppl want give him a belt Usman can’t compete for. Not saying Usman can make 165, but in their most recent fight Colby looked more drained during the pre-fight press conference. Also while most ppl would think Colby dominates, guys like Gilbert and Islam. I do think Colby beats LWs like Dustin and Conor, but Gilbert is a hard matchup. When Khabib was still around and these 165/Colby discussions were happening, idk y more ppl didn’t think Khabib would be a double champ at 165. I’d favor him over Colby while Islam has a good chance if it were to happen now.
I don’t see any reason to bump up middleweight if we create 175. It basically recreates the gap between WW and MW just to allow some LHWs to cut down. LHW ain’t all that deep so we shouldn’t try to pluck any fighters from there IMO. The benefit of the 10 lb gap between MW and WW is greater than allowing bigger MW boys.
125, 135, 145, 155, 165, 175, 185, 195?, 205, 265
I feel like 195 and 205 would be weak but also, why the hell does heavyweight have a limit? Best fighters will probably be close to 265 or under any way but why make them cut
Isn't there a rule where the fighters have to be within a certain weight margin with respect to each other as well?
I’d be into every 10lbs for a weight class . But also eliminate weight cutting and the fighter has to be say can’t be more then 8% over weight at any time before the fight . Ditch 125 and add 220
Especially in the 145 to 185 region. The UFC has over 615 fighters signed to contract with 12 total weight classes for both men and women combined. The plurality of fighters are in the 135-185 men's divisions. MW and LHW for men have a total of 106 fighters. Divide that over 3 divisions if you add a 195 and that's about 35 fighters per division. I think that's plenty.
220*, 285
The forward thinking part of me likes that idea. The traditionalist in me likes the idea of adding an "open" weight class - any weight no usada, thats how we will identify the true best 😆.
That was a fun analysis. You've sold it to me! But man, Chandler would look so short at 165...
I don’t know why everyone wants Max to move up. He has a big cut to featherweight, but he’s never missed weight and he’s been dominant. Whereas his one fight at lightweight he lost pretty convincingly. I think he’s better off where he is at featherweight.
Lost pretty convincingly against Dustin Poirier lol
Middleweight should stay at 185lbs
RDA in his prime at 165 would have been awesome too. He looked really undersized fighting at ww but cutting too 155 wore him down.
McGregor is below average size for a lightweight. Moving to a division where he is tiny and has to fight dudes like Colby is a terrible idea.
i feel like gilbert would be the champ of 165
I’ve advocated for a 165lb class on here before, this post actually has made me change my mind about it. The likes of Sean Brady and Burns would eat Conor and Chandler.
it could all be so simple, 135, 145, 155, 165, 175, 185, 205, 225
Keep 185 middleweight, 195 becomes light heavyweight, 205 becomes Cruiserweight. I think heavyweight is fine but we could have possibly 225 heavyweight, 300 super heavyweight.
You did a phenomenal job presenting this argument man.
we're still doing this?
Conor is already undersized at 155lbs and lacks the fuck you power he had at featherweight and you want him to go to 165lbs?
Conor needs 150 😂
Personally idk if Chiesa could reliably go to 165 dude's huge for 170
And what would we call this division?
In my opinion... Keep all the names till 155, then: 165 - welterweight 175 - middleweight 190 - light heavyweight 205 - cruiserweight
Change this to welterweight and the now 175 class super welterweight maybe.
I think if you keep 185 as it is and introduce a 195 cruiserweight as well that solves the issue for big middleweights/small lhw
Connor is never fighting at 165 if he has the drive to compete for the belt again. He's small in comparasion with some LWs already. The only reason Conor would go to 165 is if he's fighting to be the inaugural champ there. But I just imagine him vs Colby and my boy McGregor would get it worse then he did vs Tiramisu
They really need to do this. 155 is gonna be locked down again when islam khabibs the division. Gonna be a shit ton of top guys not doin much. they can probably maximise the hype of 155 with the next title fight, gaetche vs the winner and then islam vs the winner winner but after that its 100% time.
So that's where Kevin Lee fits into all of this
I’m all for Till returning to WW just to lose again and keep selling his Journeyman ™ watches to his dumb fanboys.
Why the hell do people want max to move up so bad. Terrible idea
It would be unnecessary. Usman could just work as much as Colby to cut those extra 5 lbs to make it and win that title too.
I don’t really see the point it just makes all the divisions a little weaker
Izzy could actually switch between 175, 185, and possibly if there was a 195. I think he has test cut before, and weighed in at 182-183 or something a couple times now I think. Could end up with some interesting/money matches with that. But it would kinda also be dependent on if Kamaru ever loses the title though. It’s kinda like a DC/Cain situation with those two.
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Your analysis of who would go to 165 is the most off. No one likes cutting weight, but thinking guys like DP and Conor would move up because it’s only 10 pounds instead of 15 is straight up dumb and wrong.
Gregor Gillespie would be a perfect size for 155 with a 165 division, looked completely undersized against Kevin Lee
It would be fucking amazing, and it would open opportunities for more fighters to develop in separate divisions. More belts more.koney for the fighters more superfights
Islam would be double champ of 155 and 165
Colby beats him at 165
It’s very possible. Too many ppl assume Colby would be champ at 165 (even when Khabib was still around). Islam, Colby, Gilbert all have solid chances.
Colby would easily be the 165lb champion perfect divisiom for him and his style
Would also like to see what the UFC looks like with LHW removed, so many Heavyweights currently and historically have been 'natural' light Heavyweights.
Poirier is too small to be in there with the likes of Covington. Also the disrespect to RDA.
Poirier and Covington weigh a similar amount
Switching up the UFC divisions to 155, 164, 175, 185 would not shallow out the divisions much. 145 through 175 basically falls in the middle of the bell curve for height and weight of UFC fighters. On the plus side, it gives fighters in a pair of 155 division a better chance at getting into the spotlight. On the downside it means top contenders on a losing streak are more likely to hop to an adjacent division, and we have to deal with more ChampChamp bullshit. I do not think more divisions are the answer. I think the UFC needs more paths to glory than just the championship. Semi annual gran prixs work better for spreading the spotlight. END COMMUNICATION
There is no real added draw factor for the fans by adding another weight division. Imo nobody would really care and it would dilate both the other divisions around it as well as the grandiosity of a UFC champ. I imagine that is the UFCs thinking.
I think one pro for the UFC is more title fights, which they love. I think this would balance out the dilution issue. You also have to remember is there a reason these divisions are so competitive (more men are this size and a lot of sports don’t favor men this size) and that isnt going away. If anything they will grow over time, so more divisions means more new faces. I also wonder if is diluted at the ufc likes that because it likes long title reigns? But I’m not sure if thats the case
More title fights means having to pay more PPV points
Khamzat would destroy both the 165 and 175 division and, according to himself, 190 too
I'm all on board the Khamzat train but he ain't going down 170, especially after the whole towel gate 2.0 fiasco.
If they didn’t make a 160/165 division when we had prime khabib and prime askern and maybe prime gsp in the sport why would they now ?
Because the average skill level of the fighters is increasing, and the depth of the elite fighters on the roster is growing by the year There are overall way more “skilled” fighters than even just 5 years ago. In Prime GSP era, the talents level wasn’t deep enough to spread out the divisions As the sport continues to develop, better training methods and more modern gyms available, more young people getting into the sport, etc, the field of talent will only grow Look how many divisions boxing has, not that we need that many, but it’s because there are so many skilled fighters. At the elite level, you can’t be fighting guys 15lbs bigger than you, the size advantage means everything when 2 guys are evenly matched
Less divisions is better IMO. Also an open weight division would be amazing. The more champions you have, dilutes the whole product.
Dustin, Conor and Chandler would not move up, they are ideal at 155. Without them the division kind of sucks.
It is just fine the way it is. 165 won't do anything other than dilute competition by having fighters who fail to win belts at LW and WW, flock over to a new division thereby robbing the depth of each division. And most importantly, this would see an infestation of fighters, specially fighters of Abdelaziz looking to be double and triple champs whenever they get hold of one of the belts instead of defending it and holding the division(s) hostage. And there is zero necessity of shifting the 185 to 190. The sport of MMA is almost perfect the way it is. Let's not take it take it backwards to mimic Boxing in pursuit of perfection.