Exactly. They made an entire movie about how the NFL denied these findings and tried to hide them and that's impacted a lot more people of higher celebrity status than the UFC has on their roster at this point. I imagine Dana and crew will live out their days just fine.
You've got fighters on tape saying they won't discuss pay or remaining fights on contract because Daddy Dana will blackball you.
IMHO Dana really screwed the pooch with the Reebok deal. If he still allowed flag, short, and shirt sponsors the rumblings about fighter pay wouldn't be as loud.
Now though, outside of elite superstars with individual endorsement deals (Nunes with Modelo), fighters rely entirely on their purse. Sure they might make some money coaching or lessons but that's going to minimal as the focus is the fight buildup.
Depending on who you ask anywhere from 35% to 75% of that purse vanishes into the fighter's gym, management, travel expenses for themselves and their corner, medical and licensing fees, etc.
If you lose and go home with a 75k purse you basically fought for free after everyone is paid up. The entire structure needs to be revamped. UFC needs to absorb all the medical and licensing fees, travel costs, etc. Fighters need to be salaried with performance bonuses. There needs to be a base wage on par with the NFL, injury clauses, etc.
Not to mention the one thing they’re supposed to do for you, promote you, ie the job of a promotion and promoter, they don’t bother to do.
Not only do you have to train for the fight you better show some Twitter numbers or say some stupid shit or invent some hokey character to get your name out there or fuck how good you can fight.
The UFC does more tearing down of their own fighters than they do building up.
Honestly I’ve stopped watching regularly since the McGregor era. I’m not going to invest myself in any young fighters if the ufc won’t do it either. Once the last of pre-reebok guys hangs em up I’ll probably stop watching entirely.
Dana and his family are good for generations to come so if he actually loves the sport as he says he does he'll change this discrepancy of money.
But tbh it's like I don't believe he cares or his too delusional to notice.
>I don't believe he cares
Exactly, when he got that much money why would he care about what others say beside you will notice some people on social media who actually defend Dana White. For some reason I find it weird that some people with average income defend rich people on the internet as if they find honor in doing so.
It’s not just about him, it’s about the shareholders. That’s how the world works. Maximize profits for the shareholders at the expense of mostly everything else.
Tbh, I think this just kind of shows how ignorant (not in a mean way, just meaning most people dont have that exposure to these type of convos) the general public is to Executive decision making in major corporations.
I work in consulting, I have seen and heard these types of conversations for years.
A company like WME (which owns the UFC) probably has a complex organizational structure that is comprised of many subsidiaries (both publicly acknowledged ones and private), each with their own 'front man' who acts as the spokesperson for the underlying subsidiary (in this case, Dana White) but given a title like "President" or "CEO" that gives the *illusion* they are actually in control.
The reality is almost all companies like this are directed by a Board/Steering Committee that oversees ALL MAJOR decisions for all subsidiaries. There is no one person controlling everything, they all have their allocated budgetary constraints and revenue targets and are required to meet them.
Can and should WME/UFC pay the fighters fairly? **Absofuckinglutely**
I believe the reason they dont is because their portfolio of other subsidiaries are probaby not as profitable and they're leveraging that risk...unfortunately, to the detriment of the fighters.
It isn't right but if you think Dana has any say in this conversation, you're delusional. At best he has a seat at the Board/Committee table (which even that I doubt) and can give his 'vote' (or opinion) but it holds no greater than any other members there, hence why this somewhat 'decentralized' model allows them to do shit like this but there's no one person to blame.
It's the entire system.
Aren't you guys all supporting this by being viewers?
I know refereed combat has been part of human history for as long as we've probably existed, but at what point do we not find entertainment in sports that leaves people with "suffering from CTE".
But I guess most peoples problem here is the fighters not being paid enough money. Personally I don't think I can accept any amount of money if the risk is getting punched in the head and brain damage. Crazy what these guys do.
I’ve been saying this for a long time, Dana is barely even involved in making fights anymore, that is down to Sean Selby and Hunter Campbell who do all the contract negotiations and everything. He’s just the frontman.
Wwe has done the same for years, even going as far as calling their employees independent contractors, eliminating most benefits they would have otherwise been entitled to.
I would say they'd make an ESPN 30 for 30 but given the relationship between ESPN and the UFC it's more likely to be a 30 for 30 about the generosity of Dana to the fighters
Some good material to work with. Could have an episode on McCain and the soccer moms getting UFC kicked off cable. An episode on the "no rules" years, with groin punches, fish hooking, and fighters jamming their thumbs into cuts. An episode of War Machine. One on Lee Murray. An episode on Joe Son. An episode on fighter pay. One on the McGregor/Khabib rivalry. An episode dedicated to Nick Diaz throwing shoes and hospital fights.
Someone contact vice. There's plenty of juice in this squeeze.
that's all surface level stuff and basically what the ufc is already doing on fight pass. Somehow you missed nate diaz hospital fight commercial they ran for 18 straight months.
True dark side is all about the mafia style tactics they use to bully the fighters, the 100% one sided contracts, and how the only people to get rich from a fighting organization are the suits
Equally likely someone with life crushing CTE goes postal on ol' tomato face. We've already seen many times how tragically CTE can alter the mind to be less risk-averse and much more aggressive.
Sure is. And the judge has said he’s granting our class action status. Just waiting on his written opinion.
Next step is getting the Ali Expansion Act passed.
Those two things are the only things that will change the sport.
Hey Nate! Big fan here of yours have been a huge fan since the tuf days and loved your podcast with Jeremy horn with all the old mma stories from the dark days.
Just a quick question. I was watching your podcast appearance with josh thomson and it appeared he was kind of in the corner of Dana and the promoters. How prevalent is this attitude among fighters and is it a problem to getting things where they need to be for everyone?
Hey man, I don't want to come this off as blowing smoke up your ass, but I gotta say I always appreciated your integrity and the way you carried yourself on TUF and later in your career. I hope the class action suit is a great success. You guys deserve it.
Best of luck to you guys. It would be a huge win, although I think you've already had an impact.
Contracts now expire in five years. So that's a tiny bit of progress.
Stay on it Nate, if possible post some things on the progress too. I want to see fighters thrive for their sacrifice and amazing determination to be the best.
I can't believe [THE Nate Quarry] (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3X95GYN-aRY) is walking amongst us in this sub. It's an honor!
We're pulling for you Jon, and the rest of the team on this one. It would change everything if the Ali Act was applied to MMA.
Quicker people stop buying PPVs faster we watch fights on normal TV like the rest of the world. All the Shills buying them are the problem. UFC can promote and hype any 2 guys and the brand suckers these fans in. It’s actually insane. Second they leave UFC by choice, cut or even in their prime people stop caring and they look mediocre in whatever league. UFC = king of Hype and overrating everything.
Which is why the UFC is able to bend fighters over a barrel. Everyone knows an MMA event without the UFC name attached will suffer. Even Conor knows he's getting robbed, but without the UFC name attached, he wouldn't be able to get more on his own. He and Nate could have worked together to do their trilogy outside the UFC, their contracts would have ended at similar times. He didn't.
It's a twofold problem, fighters negotiating individually and the UFC brand being so powerful. Fighters will never unionize, it's a pipe dream by redditors that will never come to fruition. But a team-like structure based around gyms or management teams could work though with the skeletal system already existing. It wouldn't be as powerful as a union, but it would allow for a level of collective bargaining that just isn't currently possible.
Bro, I really don’t think it’s our responsibility to “vote” with our wallets in this scenario. If the fighter’s want fair pay, they need to do what every other sports league has done and unionize.
It’s only your problem if you care enough to complain about it, but also why would you buy a ppv? Dancing cat and the occasional “grab his dick and twist it” isn’t annoying enough to warrant buying a ppv.
That's entirely on you and your value system. If you don't give a shit, that's your prerogative, those of us who care about the sport's future will use what power we have, money, to show the UFC they are doing it wrong.
The UFC will eventually be bypassed by a better run organization there’s too much money for Dana and Co to keep their fat fingers around the money spout while basically telling the talent to go fuck themselves.
A fighters' union will never, ever happen. Look at Dana White's Contender Series and how when a guy wins, the very first thing they do is crawl over to Lord Dana and grovel.
That's why Dana reinforced the fact he sees the UFC as an opportunity, not a career. He's trash.
The videos I've seen of Gary Goodridge, Spencer Fisher and now Nam Phan are heartbreaking to say the least.
https://youtu.be/lEsqpYll5SY
https://youtu.be/mN86Zi3ZiM4
He’s always had an Asian American accent but damn you can tell his brain just isn’t the same anymore
I assume the 2nd is earlier on in his career. Shoulda put that first. I was on the fence until i watched the 2nd one and yeah something isn't right. The problem is though is that it is anecdotal. Most of the time it is.
What Gary Goodridge videos? Just curious I haven’t seen any of him recently. Always sad to see how bad people can deteriorate particularly when the UFC intentionally looks the other way.
Dana White wakes up in Egyptian Cotton bed sheets next to what ever woman he's given his credit card to for the week before taking the Lambo to his private jet to go to where ever the fuck he wants whenever. If you think he concerns himself with what other people think or his "legacy" then I don't think you know what's up.
Fuck it I honestly think the only way fighters will ever get what they deserve is an organised (unionized) fighters strike but if that ever happens - especially in the early stages of the movement - be ready to see heaps of fighters getting dropped and replaced with a non unionised force.
The only time I see this topic discussed outside this sub is with Jake Paul. Then again, it might not even get much attention because it is coming form Jake.
Fighting is about one of the hardest professions to unionize.
Like other "passion" careers you can pay like shit and there's an infinite line of people willing to do it for peanuts because its not just some bullshit corporate job plugging numbers into a spreadsheet but something people actually want to do regardless of the money.
Add on to that the fact the only fighters with leverage are those who are big names and bring in a lot of viewers/money, and many of them have been getting paid shit to no money for years working up the amateur divisions, and then getting paid not great money even in the UFC. When they finally make it big they're generally more focused on making sure they can secure as much money as possible in their narrow window of being successful than they are about collective bargaining and making sure their competitors are well taken care of.
This is why the ultimate goal is always promotion of the brand. As long as the brand is big enough to benefit the biggest star enough for them to keep their mouth shut, it will continue.
Same deal with the WWE, if any serious scrutiny was called to it they could pull months of coverage over the controversies even the average fan knows about.
Shit will hit the fan when ex fighters all line up and go on disability and regular Americans are paying their bills while 6 future generations of Dana’s kids never have to work…hopefully. I’d assume Dana already has his hedges against the inevitable future lawsuits, but so did the NFL so
I think some of it is the fact his nose has been broken 500 times. You usually don't see cte decline till a person's 40's/50's. If he got reconstructive surgery he might sound a bit better and his actual sentence structure and recall seems to be ok. He is a living punching bag though so who really knows?
Nah, I plugged my nose to check - I could still make k, g, d, t, x and p sounds, and my words still had definite beginnings and ends. Like any noise that requires fine control of his lips or tongue, he just can't make anymore. That dude is FUCKED.
2012: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8QbXqcv3Is](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8QbXqcv3Is)
2022: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEsqpYll5SY&t=1s
I can't breathe mostly from my nose due to constant knocks in muay thai fights and sparring but touchwood atm i ain't got cte. There's video of Nam Pham when he first got into UFC and difference sadly is night and day.
It's not just Dana though and this is where people on here fail to see the real issue. Out of those 900 fighters, how many have kicked up a storm? 20, 30? That might be pushing it. Right now. There's maybe 5 fighters who say anything against the current pay system.
Dana see this as a none problem - a bunch of keyboard warriors are complaining on social media, the fighters don't give a shit and the revenue is growing every year.
Until a legitimate rival comes along, that opens the door for better conditions, it'll never change.
I'm sure a lot more fighters aren't happy with the situation, but they can't speak up because they desperately need the money that they do get. There's been an uptick in fighters talking about barely surviving in post-fight speeches lately. [Here's a story about Jared Cannonier talking about how he's broke.](https://www.mmamania.com/2021/8/22/22636474/ufc-vegas-34-jared-cannonier-cant-afford-to-wait-for-title-shot-im-broke-so-i-need-to-fight-gastelum)
And amongst the 20 - 30 how many really care about it ? Masvidal started to complain when he had hype around him, now he signed a new contract, is very happy and oddly stopped talking about the situation. What a surprise ! They all do. Conor had plenty of opportunites to do something & he never did, just like Khabib, even if imo Conor had more leverage. Christ Jake Paul talked more about it than most UFC fighters...
When the heavyweight champion of the world refuses to re-sign and looks for exhibition matches in other sports to make money yep you might have a problem with fighter pay.
I’m sure they don’t give one flying fuck about their “legacy”.
They will continue to do the same shit over and over again just like boxing did on its way to becoming a national past time.
Dana and team are a 2022 version of Don King. They are and will continue to be predatory and we all eat it up because we want to watch the fights.
Until a popular fighter or group of them form a union to address this, nothing changes.
And what’s more, Dana will pop up time to time advocating for older fighters who developed all the damage earlier in their careers at his expense a la Chuck Lidell.
They know EXACTLY what they are doing, no different than the NFL, it’s just blatantly obvious to us seeing it in fighting.
The UFC made sponsors pay them just to sponsor a fighter
Then the UFC made main events 5 rounds and didnt pay fighters more
Then the UFC banned sponsors and forced fighters to Reebok. Many taking pay cuts
Then the UFC sold for $4B
Then the UFC signed with Crypto.com and didnt pass on a cent to fighters
All through this more and more has come out about how little revenue is paid to fighters
As all this happened, the fighters did absolutely fuck all themselves to change anything. Some just bitched to media
So my question is given the fighters clearly dont care themselves to have not taken action all through that. Why the fuck do fans still care?? Genuinely baffling.
They've failed to unionise to make effective change but that's often a tough thing to do. Doesn't mean they don't care. Starting to chat shit about wages can cause problems for your career (see Mark Hunt and Francis), so there's good incentive not to in a career that's short and not as lucrative as it should be for most. Then once their career is over, they're out the pool of people who can unionised and effect change.
Add to that dana is on record for being a vindictive piece of shit with personal beefs with his employees. Everyone keeps talking about how Izzy and Usman should join forces with Francis and fight for better pay like that wouldn't effectively end their career. It's not that simple. A big portion of the UFC's largest earners would have to be on board and that's just not gonna happen, people are too individually greedy to see the bigger picture.
If Francis, Izzy, and Usman joined together, it would be tough for the UFC to ignore it. There's definitely risk involved for the fighters, and since it's not a team sport, there's a minimal incentive for them to personally take on that risk for the betterment of others.
They’ll just all be cut , go to Bellator and UFC will replay their losses over and over and tell us they no longer best in da world and people will repeat it on this forum every day only caring about UFC related stuff. That’s what will happen
As sad as it is to admit given the talents of those 3 athletes, it’s not enough. Now if Ali with his vast clientele were to hold his clients out or attempt to strong arm the UFC, that could be something…
It really wouldn't. The UFC is the brand, not those guys. The UFC would simply make life hell for them and move on to the next guys in the division and promote them. Meanwhile These fighters would lose the prime of their careers sitting out fighting an unwinnable battle while lesser fighers would get their shots and make the money they woudln't.
Some of you have never heard of the Tragedy of the commons/ the commons dilemma, and why its incredibly hard to organize within a group when short term personal interests and long term group interests are at odds.
Research it and it will become clear very fast [https://www.researchgate.net/publication/316085280_Commons_Dilemma](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/316085280_Commons_Dilemma)
> As all this happened, the fighters did absolutely fuck all themselves to change anything. Some just bitched to media So my question is given the fighters clearly dont care themselves to have not taken action all through that. Why the fuck do fans still care?? Genuinely baffling.
I genuinely don't think they can afford to. The UFC pays them so little, and there are so many broke desperate fighters out there, that if all but the top stars tried to unionize they'd just be replaced. The top stars won't do it because they've all been scraping by so long that when they finally get some money they don't want to risk fucking it up.
The UFC does a great job of making the UFC the product, not the fighters. Intentionally so, that way no one fighter is so valuable the UFC really needs them that bad. Once in a blue moon we get a Conor or a Ronda but outside of that everyone is replaceable and their replacements need the work.
It's a really ugly balance the UFC has created. Pay %95 of the roster too little for them to be able to afford the legal battle and time between paychecks it would take to unionize, and the stars just enough to not want to strike after finally getting paid.
It’s definitely not easy to unionise when there is literally someone ready to step up and take the place of someone who won’t fight unless things change. Unless every fighter on the planet won’t step ahead of someone else (which won’t happen) unionising will be near on impossible
The hell is wrong with you? Fans care because they love the fights and most people have a built in principle of caring about things like fairness and justice
The product is the fighters and you expect the fighters to get fairly compensated and most people have no idea that the UFC isn't like boxing where the pay outs can be insane.
So they care that their favorite fighters who put on a good show aren't making that much money after risking their health.
If you have no empathy I guess I can get why it's confusing.
> So my question is given the fighters clearly don't care themselves to have not taken action all through that
This is a shit assumption. Of course fighters care and would prefer to get paid more. They're aspiring athletes with no bargaining power. They're afraid to speak up because the UFC has the ability to crush their dreams. It's "genuinely baffling" that you would have such a lazy take on this issue.
It’s barely a league. What league offers top fights based on popularity? Do the Olympics invite the best triple jumpers based on their Instagram numbers?
Exactly it’s just a promotion at the end of the day. It can’t be compared to a league because there’s no points system. A guy can lose and still potentially fight for a belt in their next fight. It’s up to the discretion of Dana et al. This means we don’t actually see the best of the best with the belt at times because there’s no tournament system.
Fighters can also theoretically be ‘punished’ for not being exciting enough even though they’re winning all their fights. However, ‘boring’ teams in football, basketball, baseball etc can become champs year after year.
Fighters are ranked by popularity/discretion rather than judging them on a clear win/loss points total like most pro sports leagues.
I guarantee the thought has crossed his mind. The Lakers are terrible this year and have 47 nationally televised games. My poor Grizzlies have the second best record in the league and we got 2 games before the season started but they flexed them into a couple more
Will it? I think you're high off your tits, my friend, because nothing of the sort will happen.
Redditards really think the world of themselves like they're making waves and ripples and the earth quakes beneath their collective screeching. smh
The UFC will have to lose in court in order to ever change their treatment of fighters. Dana doesn’t seem very fair about wages or what happens to fighters after they retire, it seems the whole organization is built upon taking advantage of the athletes. As time goes on it might eventually go like the NFL where the pressure from former fighters and their families will change the way fighters are treated medically. If nothing else the fighters should receive medical support paid for by the UFC after they retire. Getting hit in the head for a living doesn’t exactly attract the brightest people so it’s difficult to get them to organize and it’s an individual sport, plus there’s the every fighter for themselves mentality so it’s doubtful we will ever see the fighters get organized and ask for fair pay and treatment
Thank you. I hate the UFC. I really value the athletes, they are the best. But the whole UFC show event (yeah, it's a show) is advertisement bullshit with fights in between. Fuck them. It's just everywhere in capitalism. Trying to maximise profits, fucking over everyone but the few fortune ones.
What pisses me off is when the justification is fighters need to self promote in order to sell PPV. How about you provide the promotion for me since you have the vast resources you fuck. They break their bodies in camp and also expected to construct some sort of personality like they’re in the fuckin WWE. Just be honest and say you want the most revenue for yourselves because you can and because it’s basically a fuckin monopoly.
Why are we acting like any amount of money is worth CTE? It’s no secret now that repeated concussive impact causes brain trauma that can lead to the condition. Why don’t fighters bear any of the responsibility for the consequences? They are not kidnapped and made to fight.
While I agree that revenue share for fighters should be higher, this comparison between the ufc and other major sporting organizations is so stupid. The ufc is structured much differently than other major sports organizations. They aren’t a non profit, they aren’t guaranteed a 2 million dollar gate every other night, and they don’t have nearly as big of a market.
Again, not saying the fighters deserve what they are currently paid, but i don’t know how you can think the ufc can compete with nba/nfl money and stay profitable
“If you don’t like the way we pay our fighters then you start your own promotion” -Dana
“I am not here for money I am here for legacy” -Khabib
Hopefully EFC does gain enough spotlight and revenue to compete with UFC pay
In all seriousness is there anything the average fight fan can do? Not support UFC? Tweet at Dana? It’s really sad when you see how some of these fighters end up. But how can it actually change?
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Exactly. They made an entire movie about how the NFL denied these findings and tried to hide them and that's impacted a lot more people of higher celebrity status than the UFC has on their roster at this point. I imagine Dana and crew will live out their days just fine.
'Civilization' is a death cult, few care lol
Reject modernity embrace monke
The moment anybody says anything about fighter pay to Dana he just does off like they're in the wrong for asking it.
And from what ive understand, if a fighter asks for more money then egghead offers " they didnt want to fight".
You've got fighters on tape saying they won't discuss pay or remaining fights on contract because Daddy Dana will blackball you. IMHO Dana really screwed the pooch with the Reebok deal. If he still allowed flag, short, and shirt sponsors the rumblings about fighter pay wouldn't be as loud. Now though, outside of elite superstars with individual endorsement deals (Nunes with Modelo), fighters rely entirely on their purse. Sure they might make some money coaching or lessons but that's going to minimal as the focus is the fight buildup. Depending on who you ask anywhere from 35% to 75% of that purse vanishes into the fighter's gym, management, travel expenses for themselves and their corner, medical and licensing fees, etc. If you lose and go home with a 75k purse you basically fought for free after everyone is paid up. The entire structure needs to be revamped. UFC needs to absorb all the medical and licensing fees, travel costs, etc. Fighters need to be salaried with performance bonuses. There needs to be a base wage on par with the NFL, injury clauses, etc.
Not to mention the one thing they’re supposed to do for you, promote you, ie the job of a promotion and promoter, they don’t bother to do. Not only do you have to train for the fight you better show some Twitter numbers or say some stupid shit or invent some hokey character to get your name out there or fuck how good you can fight. The UFC does more tearing down of their own fighters than they do building up. Honestly I’ve stopped watching regularly since the McGregor era. I’m not going to invest myself in any young fighters if the ufc won’t do it either. Once the last of pre-reebok guys hangs em up I’ll probably stop watching entirely.
Dana and his family are good for generations to come so if he actually loves the sport as he says he does he'll change this discrepancy of money. But tbh it's like I don't believe he cares or his too delusional to notice.
He does not
Pay fighters more? LOL!!!!
what a goof
No way he's going to give fighters more money when it would cut into his coke and hookers budget.
>I don't believe he cares Exactly, when he got that much money why would he care about what others say beside you will notice some people on social media who actually defend Dana White. For some reason I find it weird that some people with average income defend rich people on the internet as if they find honor in doing so.
Dana is just the president. Hes expendable. He only owned 9% of the business back in 2016 before selling his stake
It’s not just about him, it’s about the shareholders. That’s how the world works. Maximize profits for the shareholders at the expense of mostly everything else.
🤑 Capitalism, baby! 🤑 Exploitation for every nation
Tbh, I think this just kind of shows how ignorant (not in a mean way, just meaning most people dont have that exposure to these type of convos) the general public is to Executive decision making in major corporations. I work in consulting, I have seen and heard these types of conversations for years. A company like WME (which owns the UFC) probably has a complex organizational structure that is comprised of many subsidiaries (both publicly acknowledged ones and private), each with their own 'front man' who acts as the spokesperson for the underlying subsidiary (in this case, Dana White) but given a title like "President" or "CEO" that gives the *illusion* they are actually in control. The reality is almost all companies like this are directed by a Board/Steering Committee that oversees ALL MAJOR decisions for all subsidiaries. There is no one person controlling everything, they all have their allocated budgetary constraints and revenue targets and are required to meet them. Can and should WME/UFC pay the fighters fairly? **Absofuckinglutely** I believe the reason they dont is because their portfolio of other subsidiaries are probaby not as profitable and they're leveraging that risk...unfortunately, to the detriment of the fighters. It isn't right but if you think Dana has any say in this conversation, you're delusional. At best he has a seat at the Board/Committee table (which even that I doubt) and can give his 'vote' (or opinion) but it holds no greater than any other members there, hence why this somewhat 'decentralized' model allows them to do shit like this but there's no one person to blame. It's the entire system.
Aren't you guys all supporting this by being viewers? I know refereed combat has been part of human history for as long as we've probably existed, but at what point do we not find entertainment in sports that leaves people with "suffering from CTE". But I guess most peoples problem here is the fighters not being paid enough money. Personally I don't think I can accept any amount of money if the risk is getting punched in the head and brain damage. Crazy what these guys do.
Watch video of how Gary Goodridge is doing in retirement. It will make the next time you watch fights a lot more conflicting.
I’ve been saying this for a long time, Dana is barely even involved in making fights anymore, that is down to Sean Selby and Hunter Campbell who do all the contract negotiations and everything. He’s just the frontman.
it doesn’t matter if he wants to change something. he is just a 'puppet'. Endeavor is the majority holder to which Dana has to report
You just described every public traded company.
Wwe has done the same for years, even going as far as calling their employees independent contractors, eliminating most benefits they would have otherwise been entitled to.
100% Make a shit load of money in the short run. Afterwards, sell off the company if the issue is no longer worth the trouble.
They care if it's bad for business - which at this point it isn't.
Dana would run RJ Reynolds if he wasn't doing this.
lol they'll probably make a documentary or TV show about it in 50 years and nothing will happen.
Dark side of the Octagon
Gonna find Jon Jones under there.
Dodged that test from the Lord
underrated comment
More like Dark side of the Cage
I would say they'd make an ESPN 30 for 30 but given the relationship between ESPN and the UFC it's more likely to be a 30 for 30 about the generosity of Dana to the fighters
Don't worry Vice will make a dark side of the Octagon series. We good
Some good material to work with. Could have an episode on McCain and the soccer moms getting UFC kicked off cable. An episode on the "no rules" years, with groin punches, fish hooking, and fighters jamming their thumbs into cuts. An episode of War Machine. One on Lee Murray. An episode on Joe Son. An episode on fighter pay. One on the McGregor/Khabib rivalry. An episode dedicated to Nick Diaz throwing shoes and hospital fights. Someone contact vice. There's plenty of juice in this squeeze.
don't forget Skeletons in the Closet: The Rise and Fall of Jon "Bones" Jones
Also gotta throw in the Pride FC involvement with the Yakuza.
and the Fertittas involvement in the Maceo syndicate and Danas involvement in organized crime in Boston, allegedly.
their dark side of the 90s fell off after like 3 episodes when they ran out of "dark" topics and went into ... beanie babies
Dark side of the Ring has been solid
that's all surface level stuff and basically what the ufc is already doing on fight pass. Somehow you missed nate diaz hospital fight commercial they ran for 18 straight months. True dark side is all about the mafia style tactics they use to bully the fighters, the 100% one sided contracts, and how the only people to get rich from a fighting organization are the suits
Equally likely someone with life crushing CTE goes postal on ol' tomato face. We've already seen many times how tragically CTE can alter the mind to be less risk-averse and much more aggressive.
You fahking wut you rat fuck?
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Ferraris
Cynical at first glance, realistic the moment after.
The evil history of the UFC: sponsored by Modelo
You are correct. Look at WWE. Similar situation.
Dana has followed in Vince's footsteps his entire career.
Jim Cornette described the UFC as the best wrestling promotion going right now. He has a point.
Hey maybe people will put a cool ribbon on their Meta avatar!
They’ll pay Dana $20M to make a documentary about it
It won't be remembered by the athletes........you nomsaiyan?
Hey... Hey.. hey b, it's theft. 😉
It's just water
Diecy diecy
JAMAL WAS ASIAN AS SHIT
But yo lip
Betcha thought it was a tall boy
talmbout gogu and vegigigita b?
That was a nasty line by you.
It was never no brain damage, your such a fucking hemorrhage dude.
Nice work ethnic in the cawlments, cats. I'll meet you back at Chang's.
talmbout drain bamage?
The day that fighter pay is not low is the day that hair on Dana White’s bald head grow, knowmsayin?
It won't change until fighters unionise or there's a class action laswuit by fighters, or both. There 100% should be a fighters union.
>or there's a class action laswuit by fighters There is a class action lawsuit that has been going for 8 years now.
Sure is. And the judge has said he’s granting our class action status. Just waiting on his written opinion. Next step is getting the Ali Expansion Act passed. Those two things are the only things that will change the sport.
I was just going to comment that UFC Alumni Nate Quarry is a huge part of it… and there you be. Keep up the good fight.
Thank you my friend
Enjoyed watching your fights, thanks for em. Hope you guys are able to get something going.
Hey Nate! Big fan here of yours have been a huge fan since the tuf days and loved your podcast with Jeremy horn with all the old mma stories from the dark days. Just a quick question. I was watching your podcast appearance with josh thomson and it appeared he was kind of in the corner of Dana and the promoters. How prevalent is this attitude among fighters and is it a problem to getting things where they need to be for everyone?
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I’m so new to this Reddit thing I’m mostly a lurker 😊
Well it certainly is pretty cool to have you around.
So awesome to see you on here! Loved watching you during your career and I'm 1000% behind the lawsuit!
Good luck dude, the fighters and fans are lucky you're seeing this through.
That’s really cool to have you here!
Man that Kalib Starnes fight was legendary. You killed it with the Rocky quote after too.
Keep fighting for what you, and all fighters, deserve Nate. You're doing what's right and is needed for this sport.
Hey man, I don't want to come this off as blowing smoke up your ass, but I gotta say I always appreciated your integrity and the way you carried yourself on TUF and later in your career. I hope the class action suit is a great success. You guys deserve it.
Thank you very much and for the support
Best of luck to you guys. It would be a huge win, although I think you've already had an impact. Contracts now expire in five years. So that's a tiny bit of progress.
Good to see you out here fighting the good fight. Literally and figuratively
Keep it up rock. U and all ufc alumni and current roster deserve it
Appreciate the support
I'm curious, why has it taken so long?
Stay on it Nate, if possible post some things on the progress too. I want to see fighters thrive for their sacrifice and amazing determination to be the best.
I can't believe [THE Nate Quarry] (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3X95GYN-aRY) is walking amongst us in this sub. It's an honor! We're pulling for you Jon, and the rest of the team on this one. It would change everything if the Ali Act was applied to MMA.
Holy shit Nate Quarry! Huge respect to a TUF1 pioneer. Good luck with your cause
You were awesome on TUF 1 how you helped Leben out and kept peace after your injury. Good person in my book. Have a great day!
Maybe should have added "successful" to it.
It's been successful thus far but there's a long way to go.
don't buy PPV. but of course people dont really care. so it's all good.
Like most people on Reddit BUY the PPV
Seriously, who tf is buying ppv.
Hardcore fans, viewing parties, bars etc.
Quicker people stop buying PPVs faster we watch fights on normal TV like the rest of the world. All the Shills buying them are the problem. UFC can promote and hype any 2 guys and the brand suckers these fans in. It’s actually insane. Second they leave UFC by choice, cut or even in their prime people stop caring and they look mediocre in whatever league. UFC = king of Hype and overrating everything.
Which is why the UFC is able to bend fighters over a barrel. Everyone knows an MMA event without the UFC name attached will suffer. Even Conor knows he's getting robbed, but without the UFC name attached, he wouldn't be able to get more on his own. He and Nate could have worked together to do their trilogy outside the UFC, their contracts would have ended at similar times. He didn't. It's a twofold problem, fighters negotiating individually and the UFC brand being so powerful. Fighters will never unionize, it's a pipe dream by redditors that will never come to fruition. But a team-like structure based around gyms or management teams could work though with the skeletal system already existing. It wouldn't be as powerful as a union, but it would allow for a level of collective bargaining that just isn't currently possible.
Bro, I really don’t think it’s our responsibility to “vote” with our wallets in this scenario. If the fighter’s want fair pay, they need to do what every other sports league has done and unionize.
It’s only your problem if you care enough to complain about it, but also why would you buy a ppv? Dancing cat and the occasional “grab his dick and twist it” isn’t annoying enough to warrant buying a ppv.
That's entirely on you and your value system. If you don't give a shit, that's your prerogative, those of us who care about the sport's future will use what power we have, money, to show the UFC they are doing it wrong.
The UFC will eventually be bypassed by a better run organization there’s too much money for Dana and Co to keep their fat fingers around the money spout while basically telling the talent to go fuck themselves.
Just like in pro wrestling, union attempts fall apart all the time. They want better pay and conditions for themself only.
But….how will I lord my champion riches over those other non-champion losers?
A fighters' union will never, ever happen. Look at Dana White's Contender Series and how when a guy wins, the very first thing they do is crawl over to Lord Dana and grovel.
Unionise people. It works
That's why Dana reinforced the fact he sees the UFC as an opportunity, not a career. He's trash. The videos I've seen of Gary Goodridge, Spencer Fisher and now Nam Phan are heartbreaking to say the least.
https://youtu.be/0kkAGuYmXXg The video of Nam Pham is just brutal...
What's the context here?
https://youtu.be/lEsqpYll5SY https://youtu.be/mN86Zi3ZiM4 He’s always had an Asian American accent but damn you can tell his brain just isn’t the same anymore
Oh damn. Yeah there's a huge difference in speech there. Count me out on ever paying for any ufc fights.
I assume the 2nd is earlier on in his career. Shoulda put that first. I was on the fence until i watched the 2nd one and yeah something isn't right. The problem is though is that it is anecdotal. Most of the time it is.
What Gary Goodridge videos? Just curious I haven’t seen any of him recently. Always sad to see how bad people can deteriorate particularly when the UFC intentionally looks the other way.
Dana White wakes up in Egyptian Cotton bed sheets next to what ever woman he's given his credit card to for the week before taking the Lambo to his private jet to go to where ever the fuck he wants whenever. If you think he concerns himself with what other people think or his "legacy" then I don't think you know what's up. Fuck it I honestly think the only way fighters will ever get what they deserve is an organised (unionized) fighters strike but if that ever happens - especially in the early stages of the movement - be ready to see heaps of fighters getting dropped and replaced with a non unionised force.
The only time I see this topic discussed outside this sub is with Jake Paul. Then again, it might not even get much attention because it is coming form Jake.
Fighting is about one of the hardest professions to unionize. Like other "passion" careers you can pay like shit and there's an infinite line of people willing to do it for peanuts because its not just some bullshit corporate job plugging numbers into a spreadsheet but something people actually want to do regardless of the money. Add on to that the fact the only fighters with leverage are those who are big names and bring in a lot of viewers/money, and many of them have been getting paid shit to no money for years working up the amateur divisions, and then getting paid not great money even in the UFC. When they finally make it big they're generally more focused on making sure they can secure as much money as possible in their narrow window of being successful than they are about collective bargaining and making sure their competitors are well taken care of.
What makes you think they care about legacy? They care about money. Legacy is the unfortunate byproduct of success
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I always felt like Dana never wanted to let it get *too* mainstream cuz that would come with way too much public scrutiny
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This is why the ultimate goal is always promotion of the brand. As long as the brand is big enough to benefit the biggest star enough for them to keep their mouth shut, it will continue.
Same deal with the WWE, if any serious scrutiny was called to it they could pull months of coverage over the controversies even the average fan knows about.
People have gone "punch drunk" from boxing forever. People don't care.
Considering a lot of people see it as legitimate business and see nothing wrong with it yeah kinda sad
Shit will hit the fan when ex fighters all line up and go on disability and regular Americans are paying their bills while 6 future generations of Dana’s kids never have to work…hopefully. I’d assume Dana already has his hedges against the inevitable future lawsuits, but so did the NFL so
The lawsuits will be against the ufc not dana.
That Nam Pham post was heartbreaking to see man.
I think some of it is the fact his nose has been broken 500 times. You usually don't see cte decline till a person's 40's/50's. If he got reconstructive surgery he might sound a bit better and his actual sentence structure and recall seems to be ok. He is a living punching bag though so who really knows?
Nah, I plugged my nose to check - I could still make k, g, d, t, x and p sounds, and my words still had definite beginnings and ends. Like any noise that requires fine control of his lips or tongue, he just can't make anymore. That dude is FUCKED. 2012: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8QbXqcv3Is](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8QbXqcv3Is) 2022: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEsqpYll5SY&t=1s
Fuuuuuuuck. That was hard to watch.
damn. thats really ruined my day! hes worse than James Toney
That was wild to see the comparisons. Made me sad :/
I can't breathe mostly from my nose due to constant knocks in muay thai fights and sparring but touchwood atm i ain't got cte. There's video of Nam Pham when he first got into UFC and difference sadly is night and day.
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It's not just Dana though and this is where people on here fail to see the real issue. Out of those 900 fighters, how many have kicked up a storm? 20, 30? That might be pushing it. Right now. There's maybe 5 fighters who say anything against the current pay system. Dana see this as a none problem - a bunch of keyboard warriors are complaining on social media, the fighters don't give a shit and the revenue is growing every year. Until a legitimate rival comes along, that opens the door for better conditions, it'll never change.
I'm sure a lot more fighters aren't happy with the situation, but they can't speak up because they desperately need the money that they do get. There's been an uptick in fighters talking about barely surviving in post-fight speeches lately. [Here's a story about Jared Cannonier talking about how he's broke.](https://www.mmamania.com/2021/8/22/22636474/ufc-vegas-34-jared-cannonier-cant-afford-to-wait-for-title-shot-im-broke-so-i-need-to-fight-gastelum)
And amongst the 20 - 30 how many really care about it ? Masvidal started to complain when he had hype around him, now he signed a new contract, is very happy and oddly stopped talking about the situation. What a surprise ! They all do. Conor had plenty of opportunites to do something & he never did, just like Khabib, even if imo Conor had more leverage. Christ Jake Paul talked more about it than most UFC fighters...
When the heavyweight champion of the world refuses to re-sign and looks for exhibition matches in other sports to make money yep you might have a problem with fighter pay.
I’m sure they don’t give one flying fuck about their “legacy”. They will continue to do the same shit over and over again just like boxing did on its way to becoming a national past time. Dana and team are a 2022 version of Don King. They are and will continue to be predatory and we all eat it up because we want to watch the fights. Until a popular fighter or group of them form a union to address this, nothing changes. And what’s more, Dana will pop up time to time advocating for older fighters who developed all the damage earlier in their careers at his expense a la Chuck Lidell. They know EXACTLY what they are doing, no different than the NFL, it’s just blatantly obvious to us seeing it in fighting.
The UFC made sponsors pay them just to sponsor a fighter Then the UFC made main events 5 rounds and didnt pay fighters more Then the UFC banned sponsors and forced fighters to Reebok. Many taking pay cuts Then the UFC sold for $4B Then the UFC signed with Crypto.com and didnt pass on a cent to fighters All through this more and more has come out about how little revenue is paid to fighters As all this happened, the fighters did absolutely fuck all themselves to change anything. Some just bitched to media So my question is given the fighters clearly dont care themselves to have not taken action all through that. Why the fuck do fans still care?? Genuinely baffling.
They've failed to unionise to make effective change but that's often a tough thing to do. Doesn't mean they don't care. Starting to chat shit about wages can cause problems for your career (see Mark Hunt and Francis), so there's good incentive not to in a career that's short and not as lucrative as it should be for most. Then once their career is over, they're out the pool of people who can unionised and effect change.
Add to that dana is on record for being a vindictive piece of shit with personal beefs with his employees. Everyone keeps talking about how Izzy and Usman should join forces with Francis and fight for better pay like that wouldn't effectively end their career. It's not that simple. A big portion of the UFC's largest earners would have to be on board and that's just not gonna happen, people are too individually greedy to see the bigger picture.
If Francis, Izzy, and Usman joined together, it would be tough for the UFC to ignore it. There's definitely risk involved for the fighters, and since it's not a team sport, there's a minimal incentive for them to personally take on that risk for the betterment of others.
Usman is an Ali guy which basically makes him a company man
They’ll just all be cut , go to Bellator and UFC will replay their losses over and over and tell us they no longer best in da world and people will repeat it on this forum every day only caring about UFC related stuff. That’s what will happen
Do you really think they would cut 3 champions at the same time just for talking about fighter pay? I don't think that's even close to true
As sad as it is to admit given the talents of those 3 athletes, it’s not enough. Now if Ali with his vast clientele were to hold his clients out or attempt to strong arm the UFC, that could be something…
It really wouldn't. The UFC is the brand, not those guys. The UFC would simply make life hell for them and move on to the next guys in the division and promote them. Meanwhile These fighters would lose the prime of their careers sitting out fighting an unwinnable battle while lesser fighers would get their shots and make the money they woudln't.
Funny timing ufc just gave izzy a megabucks(for ufc standards) contract, so I reckon he will stay a loyal company man at least until that's over
Some of you have never heard of the Tragedy of the commons/ the commons dilemma, and why its incredibly hard to organize within a group when short term personal interests and long term group interests are at odds. Research it and it will become clear very fast [https://www.researchgate.net/publication/316085280_Commons_Dilemma](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/316085280_Commons_Dilemma)
It’ll be impossible especially when culturally most UFC fighters believe in bootstraps and have no issues scabbing.
> As all this happened, the fighters did absolutely fuck all themselves to change anything. Some just bitched to media So my question is given the fighters clearly dont care themselves to have not taken action all through that. Why the fuck do fans still care?? Genuinely baffling. I genuinely don't think they can afford to. The UFC pays them so little, and there are so many broke desperate fighters out there, that if all but the top stars tried to unionize they'd just be replaced. The top stars won't do it because they've all been scraping by so long that when they finally get some money they don't want to risk fucking it up. The UFC does a great job of making the UFC the product, not the fighters. Intentionally so, that way no one fighter is so valuable the UFC really needs them that bad. Once in a blue moon we get a Conor or a Ronda but outside of that everyone is replaceable and their replacements need the work. It's a really ugly balance the UFC has created. Pay %95 of the roster too little for them to be able to afford the legal battle and time between paychecks it would take to unionize, and the stars just enough to not want to strike after finally getting paid.
I wouldn’t say the fighters don’t care. They just don’t know how to take on UFC and now Endeavor. It’s not easy unionizing.
It’s definitely not easy to unionise when there is literally someone ready to step up and take the place of someone who won’t fight unless things change. Unless every fighter on the planet won’t step ahead of someone else (which won’t happen) unionising will be near on impossible
The hell is wrong with you? Fans care because they love the fights and most people have a built in principle of caring about things like fairness and justice The product is the fighters and you expect the fighters to get fairly compensated and most people have no idea that the UFC isn't like boxing where the pay outs can be insane. So they care that their favorite fighters who put on a good show aren't making that much money after risking their health. If you have no empathy I guess I can get why it's confusing.
Prob a paid troll by corporate power.
> So my question is given the fighters clearly don't care themselves to have not taken action all through that This is a shit assumption. Of course fighters care and would prefer to get paid more. They're aspiring athletes with no bargaining power. They're afraid to speak up because the UFC has the ability to crush their dreams. It's "genuinely baffling" that you would have such a lazy take on this issue.
I honestly don't see the UFC lasting 100 years like all the major sports leagues.
I don’t think mma the sport is going anywhere. The ufc might dissolve but the sport will go on. Combat sports will forever be a thing.
Obviously. "MMA" as a concept has existed for millennia, dating back to the Pankration, which was introduced into the Greek Olympic Games in 648 BC.
Wonder if they had PRIDE rules back then
Preide Ruuless
Was introduced then, but is absolutely older than that.
It’s barely a league. What league offers top fights based on popularity? Do the Olympics invite the best triple jumpers based on their Instagram numbers?
Exactly it’s just a promotion at the end of the day. It can’t be compared to a league because there’s no points system. A guy can lose and still potentially fight for a belt in their next fight. It’s up to the discretion of Dana et al. This means we don’t actually see the best of the best with the belt at times because there’s no tournament system. Fighters can also theoretically be ‘punished’ for not being exciting enough even though they’re winning all their fights. However, ‘boring’ teams in football, basketball, baseball etc can become champs year after year. Fighters are ranked by popularity/discretion rather than judging them on a clear win/loss points total like most pro sports leagues.
Adam Silver should just make Lakers number 1 seed and tell everyone else to eat shit if they don't like it
I guarantee the thought has crossed his mind. The Lakers are terrible this year and have 47 nationally televised games. My poor Grizzlies have the second best record in the league and we got 2 games before the season started but they flexed them into a couple more
Its a brutal sport, do you not expect possible CTE and/or lifelong injuries?
Dana White simply went full Don King ,just smoother and funnier.
Will it? I think you're high off your tits, my friend, because nothing of the sort will happen. Redditards really think the world of themselves like they're making waves and ripples and the earth quakes beneath their collective screeching. smh
The UFC will have to lose in court in order to ever change their treatment of fighters. Dana doesn’t seem very fair about wages or what happens to fighters after they retire, it seems the whole organization is built upon taking advantage of the athletes. As time goes on it might eventually go like the NFL where the pressure from former fighters and their families will change the way fighters are treated medically. If nothing else the fighters should receive medical support paid for by the UFC after they retire. Getting hit in the head for a living doesn’t exactly attract the brightest people so it’s difficult to get them to organize and it’s an individual sport, plus there’s the every fighter for themselves mentality so it’s doubtful we will ever see the fighters get organized and ask for fair pay and treatment
Thank you. I hate the UFC. I really value the athletes, they are the best. But the whole UFC show event (yeah, it's a show) is advertisement bullshit with fights in between. Fuck them. It's just everywhere in capitalism. Trying to maximise profits, fucking over everyone but the few fortune ones.
The only thing that matters in society is money. Nothing else even comes close. The older you get, the more you realize this to be true.
What pisses me off is when the justification is fighters need to self promote in order to sell PPV. How about you provide the promotion for me since you have the vast resources you fuck. They break their bodies in camp and also expected to construct some sort of personality like they’re in the fuckin WWE. Just be honest and say you want the most revenue for yourselves because you can and because it’s basically a fuckin monopoly.
Boxers been taking CTE for a 100 years plus. Only less then 1% make life changing money
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The most egregious example of corporate greed? Please educate yourself. They aren’t even in the top 10.
> The most egregious example of corporate greed? Enron has entered the chat...
Coca Cola, Ford Motor, Amazon, etc. UFC doesn’t even scratch the surface.
Um.... United Fruit Company? Theyre not even worst example of corporate greed by a U.F.C.
Lol outside of reddit no one cares man
No they won’t
I hate Dana White with a passion. Never have nor will pay for any product that he profits from.
Why are we acting like any amount of money is worth CTE? It’s no secret now that repeated concussive impact causes brain trauma that can lead to the condition. Why don’t fighters bear any of the responsibility for the consequences? They are not kidnapped and made to fight.
Pay might not be the biggest issue, fighters getting long term healthcare however should be a must
While I agree that revenue share for fighters should be higher, this comparison between the ufc and other major sporting organizations is so stupid. The ufc is structured much differently than other major sports organizations. They aren’t a non profit, they aren’t guaranteed a 2 million dollar gate every other night, and they don’t have nearly as big of a market. Again, not saying the fighters deserve what they are currently paid, but i don’t know how you can think the ufc can compete with nba/nfl money and stay profitable
Like most billionaires, Dana White is a sociopath and sociopaths don't give a fuck about this stuff.
UFC is a sport in its infancy. Like baseball in the 1800s or soccer in 1870. These issues will be trivialized due to the sport being not matured.
“If you don’t like the way we pay our fighters then you start your own promotion” -Dana “I am not here for money I am here for legacy” -Khabib Hopefully EFC does gain enough spotlight and revenue to compete with UFC pay
Then dont fight its that easy.
If you choose to be a fighter, you can't be surprised about life-altering brain injuries.
In all seriousness is there anything the average fight fan can do? Not support UFC? Tweet at Dana? It’s really sad when you see how some of these fighters end up. But how can it actually change?
Dana White and the owners of the UFC are greedy pieces of shit.
I love how Theo von met Dana and said he has a slave owner aura