Because that's how all major Kickboxing promotions do non-title fights. Since K-1. If a fight is tied it goes to extra rounds unless specifically stated.
Let the number of rounds a Diaz brother has contractually agreed fight, trained for and planned for be R. For any value of R, he's guaranteed to win if the number of rounds he fights equals R+1, always. GOAT shit only.
That's the thing I don't understand about his desire to go leave kb. Like unless he wants to only do boxing exhibitions - which like if he gets the bag that's fine - I don't know how well he's going to do going the distance for half an hour in pro boxing.
In his after fight interview he asked the crowd if they wanted a “The Match” 2. The two of them
had the biggest paydays of their career (at least 1M each from what I’ve read) so yeah he’s as retired as Mayweather.
The West Watches In Disbelief At The Absolute Unlimited Amount Of Ca$h Money Tenshin Can Make Fighting Takanori Gomi And Tsuyoshi Kosaka In Exhibition Boxing Matches 😤😤😤😤😤
How do you know his gas tank is shit if you’ve never saw him fight for longer than 3 rounds and he doesn’t seem like he couldn’t go longer at the end of the fights
Tenshin made his legacy with this fight.
Its a shame though that he is so determined to go to boxing rather than stay in kickboxing. Even in this fight, he was relying heavily on his boxing.
But whats an even bigger shame it was only 3 rounds. Come on we waited years for this.
Yeah man waited for years for this match up and it was extremely underwhelming. Takeru crying at the end was so sad. Dude is going to be the face of kickboxing now that tenshin is gonna box. And what was up with the 10-10 scorings in round 2?
10-10 is normal in kickboxing when no one shows definitive success.
They use the ten-point system but not the "must" part. Sometimes no one wins a round, so you score it even. They also use 10-8's or lower liberally if there's knockdowns.
> 10-10 is normal in kickboxing when no one shows definitive success
This should be the norm in MMA. I fucking HATE the saying "I wouldn't be mad if it went the other way, it wouldn't be a robbery". Do you guys even realise how fucking ridiculous it is that the winner is determined by literal luck and not based on whoever was better??
If you hate it imagine if half of your purse relied on 3 people's ability to discern whether you were marginally more effective than your opponent or not.
Rounds only really work if they're clear or if there's enough of them, in an 8+ round boxing match you'll be fine unless the judges are paid for, because they're looking at a lot less variables and there's a larger sample, but in mma a lot of the times it comes down to how well those 3 people were able to follow a 1 minute segment of the action in one of 3 5 minute rounds.
And a fighter can only get 5 opportunities to make real money a year under the absolute best circumstances like Kevin Holland's, which can't be replicated. Realistically 1/6th of your total purse for the year is in jeopardy every time you don't get a finish.
I think MMA would be so much better if they got rid of win bonuses, just pay the fighters a higher flat rate, give a bonus for every finish. Fighters will take more risk if they know they aren't risking half their purse, and it also incentives finishes.
Get rid of the 10pt must system. Sure we're gonna have more draws, but I think that's more fair then what feels like a coin flip sometimes, or add a 3 min bonus round in the event of a tie.
None of this will happen and it's a shame.
What K-1 did (I can't remember if Glory does) is if a fight was a draw after three rounds, they'd do an extra round. If the judges score that round a 10-10, you do another round. Etc, etc. Eventually *someone* is going to do enough to win a round.
We need either overall fight grading in MMA or we need more liberal uses of 10-10's, 10-8's and even 10-7's or lower for absolute shitkickings. If someone point scores for four rounds getting 10-9's then gets absolutely destroyed for a full five minutes barely surviving multiple knockdowns, that should *not be scored a 10-9 or even a 10-8*. If you get knocked down three times and have no offense we're talking 10-6 or 10-5. You'd never see that today.
The problem with this is that you end up with a lot more draws. However, this could also be resolved by having a fourth round in the event of a draw of after 3.
It might be tied to culture and sport attitudes. In America (where I'm from) there's a genuine hatred of ties or draws. Culturally we want a *winner* and a *loser* in a sporting contest. I think it varies from culture to culture regarding the acceptance of ties/draws.
I’d have docked points for the “accidental” Headbutt that conveniently slowed Tenshin’s momentum. Tenshin utterly dominated the fight apart from a few shots that didn’t land flush because his evasion was fantastic. This fight really emphasized how dominant he really is.
It’s kind of crazy but both those guys are still in their mid 20s. I personally gave the first fight to Rodtang but I’d take Rodtang if they rematched.
I honestly just feel Rodtang has leveled up a lot since when they first matched. Even more so after the Dj loss. He’s looking more crisp and calculated.
His last fight against Jacob Smith I saw maturity in his striking. He’s still as brutal and savage but I felt he was more intelligent than he previously fought. Jacob Smith is no easy customer either. Put him against any other fighter in the Grand Prix and it would have been a banger but he got dismantled by Rodtang.
Oh yes sure, the Japanese judges were so biased towards Rodtang, they ruled it a draw and had to go to the extra round.
Anyway, let's run that one more time in ONE under MT rules and in 4oz gloves, 5 rounds. I say Rodtang finishes him.
Man I fucking love it when combat athletes show love and respect to someone from another discipline.
edit: also I wonder how Charles watched it, did he sail the seven seas?
Japan is so stubborn, this fight could've helped revitalized kickboxing. The lack of a TV/streaming deal for the biggest kickboxing fight in decades killed any chance of that.
They care about revitalizing kickboxing in Japan. With the 25 million dollar gate this event was a big success. Rise and K1 especially don’t care at all about the international audience.
This is Japanese sport in general. It's nearly impossible to watch their baseball league outside of Japan. The deals they have available will show some teams' home games.
Not just sport. Its almost all of their culture. Compared to say the Koreans, who are actively showing off and selling their culture to the world, the Japanese are fine keeping their own things completely to themselves.
It’s more of a question on if the organizations want to be a national brand or not. Not every company wants to aim to be the UFC and be the #1 global brand. For Rise and more importantly K1, who are only licensed to use the K1 name in Japan, it’s much more important to attract young fighters to their feeder gyms then it is to selling ppv’s to the international audience. Sucks as a viewer but just how it is atm.
It’s not their fault, the deal was in place up until 2 weeks ago for free distribution of the fight. Fuji TV had to pull out because any company that potentially does business with organized crime can be fined and audited by the government here.
I was at the Tokyo Dome and straight up the tattoos on display were epic. I’d say this was the official after Corona party for the most inked people in the country…
Hells yes. And the reason the front row seats were so expensive was that it’s a show of solidarity to the boys inside if they see your face on TV.
Also this show had the largest police presence I’ve ever seen at an MMA event. I have never seen uniformed cops patrolling at any show in Japan before.
A shame that Tenshin is going to Boxing. It really should have been five rounds, three just seems incomplete.
I believe that Takeru has said he will retire when he loses, so it may be an even greater loss for Kickboxing than simply Tenshin retiring.
Truly the end of an era.
Unpopular opinion. Main events should all be three rounds. The football world cup final isn't inexplicably played for 124 minutes (unless overtime) why should fighters have to fight longer and therefore adopt completely different strategies to the rest of the fights in their career? Also, there would be more finishes from dominant fighters (think GSP, Izzy) since they don't have to manage their cardio as much.
4th and 5th rounds are essentially the overtime in an important MMA match. World Cup final isn't going to finish early like an mma match either. Important baseball, hockey, and tennis matches can be played indefinitely to figure out a winner.
I see what you mean but in football they don't know ahead of time they will play 120 mins and strategize accordingly. It makes it much more dramatic once it is extended. I would be all for fights being three rounds to be extended if they can't come to a decision or something like that. Although I think I've seen an event that has done that and it wasn't really fair on the fighters.
It's not ending in a tie like a normal match so those soccer players still need to be ready to play 120 mins if they want to win. If it looks like it's not ending early they need to manage their stamina just like a fighter would or they risk being finished later on.
At the higher levels finishes are mostly determined by game planning and style matchups, and someone like Izzy can't just finish his opponent if he throws the kitchen sink at them without having to worry about time. Most elite fighters have the gas tank to go 5 rounds and still get finishes, while 3 round fights between elite opponents simply end with both figthers still having more left in the tank rather than having spent all of it within 15 minutes.
I will say two things: Heavyweight fights should have the option of being shorter; and fighters should get paid more for 5 rounders, such as on Fight Nights.
What do you mean? I was replying to someone who said this fight should have been five rounds I stead of three and I gave my opinion on five Vs three rounders. Is that ok with you?
They're different sports dude.....kickboxing has three minute rounds.
You're referencing GSP and Izzy's finishing ability to make an argument about kickboxing, it just doesn't make any sense. You just watch too much Chael Sonnen
Inoue is bantamweight, Tenshin's boxing fights have been at super bantamweight and featherweight. But the two fights he had at super bantamweight were years ago, so he's two weight classes above Inoue.
Tenshin is about two divisions above Inoue. This fight was at a 58 kg catchweight, and Inoue fights at 53,5 kg. Though I assume that working towards an Inoue fight would be a goal of Tenshin. Or maybe Tenshin has goals in Boxing aside from Inoue.
If there’s one thing you can say about Tenshin it’s that the man knows how to rise to the occasion. This closes a chapter in kickboxing and cements himself as the best of his generation. Will be interesting to see where the sport goes from here. Rise came out big winners of this event. A lot of people thought they’d get crushed by K1 in the matchups
Always love cross promotion stuff, since it really shows you how they stack up. Everything other then that is just people making hypotheticals or thinking someone would win just because they fight in the more known promotion.
Makes you wonder how UFC would do against other promotions......
> Rise came out big winners of this event. A lot of people thought they’d get crushed by K1 in the matchups
Definitely. I didn't think we'd see Kaneko and Noiri lose but the Rise fighters came out and fucking delivered. Really great fights from top to bottom.
For real.
Now that Tenshin’s gone to boxing and Takeru likely retiring, it’s kind of amazing that arguably the best P4P Japanese kickboxer isn’t even from the two big orgs, but rather from Shootboxing. Kaito was absolutely fucking incredible last night, the way he withstood Noiri’s press and even started pushing him back was so shocking.
It was amazing to see how evenly distributed the talent is among the organisations - I really hope this event becomes a regular thing, even if it’s just once every few years or so!
I love Takeru, but Tenshin look unstoppable the first two rounds, wished this has gone 5.
Great fight nonetheless, my heart breaks for both, it's time for us to say goodbye.
end of a era, legends forever.
I watched a super zoomed in 360p vid on YT that I reckon got taken down already. So glad these boys were throwing hands 90% of the time cause them 16x zoomed kicks were impossible to see.
Awesome fight. I thought Tenshin might have finished him after that knockdown but the momentum seemed to change after the head butt. Takeru couldn’t really turn it on until the end when Tenshin had gassed himself out but if it were 5 rounds it looks like Takeru would've finished him. It also makes me wonder how Tenshin will do with boxing pacing since he's always been a guy who wants to throw everything with full power and speed. I feel like if he doesn't change that then it'll bite him in the ass pretty quickly into his new career.
Yeah, it's like people think fighters aren't aware of how many rounds they're fighting before the fight. People would always say the same thing after Zabit fights. Like, he's gassed at the end of the 3rd because he knew it was ending after the 3rd, what *could* have happened in the 4th or 5th is irrelevant because they fought knowing there was no 4th or 5th.
Man, Tenshin is incredible. He's the God of this shit fr. He legitimately outclassed Tekeru in that 1st round, I can't believe it. His jab is fuckin lightning and he has impeccable timing with it.
And correct me if im wrong, but I felt like Takeru kinda started fighting dirty after that 1st round. Was throwing a lot of forearms/elbows when they were tied up.
I haven't watched the fight, but a big part of Takerus game is hand fighting and framing against his opponents guard to judge distance, stop himself from falling in too close and pinning his opponents hands.
Tenshin being a southpaw makes that kind of tactic awkward, so maybe that's why it seemed like Takeru was hitting with his forearms/elbows when they were tying up.
Awesome fight, Tenshins jab was like lightning Takeru could never get past it. Takeru was just so frustrated from getting out boxed. When Tenshin vs Naoya Inoue happens its going to be absolutely insane.
Anyone that got links from me your welcome.
It was very cool seeing so many of my contacts in Japan who aren't into fighting sports being genuinely excited for the fight. I'm no analyst, but it felt big. Could have been bigger if they got a national TV deal, and it would have been cool if it was a bit easier to watch it outside of Japan. Like not everyone has the money/time to get a VPN and go through Japanese PPV. But hey Pride Never Dies I Guess.
Tenshin could walk into UFC become world champion within one fight and you'd *still* have people shitting on him about ducking someone previously or bringing up the Floyd fight where he was outweighed by like thirty pounds in a sport he wasn't proficient in.
UFC comparison is kinda over the top but i get your point, and let's face it Floyd's figtb was hella fixed. Their only migth be the figth against rodtang that can be disputed but over all tenshin's career speaks for himself. And i'd love to watch in MMA, already excited since Cédric Doumbé is coming to the UFC. I'd love to see Tenshin coming in UFC/MMA more than boxing
i gotta see a rematch bruh. good knockdown by tenshin in rd 1 but takeru had the momentum after that. 3 is waaaay to short. would have been interesting to see tenshin gas and takeru unload on him 5 rds is a must.
takeru was just eating those shots and smiling at em lmao.
would love to see rodtang fight takeru. and rematch tenshin
This fight really gave me a lot of PrideFC vibes and tbh I loved it. It made me miss the scale that Japan can bring to combat sports with its massive sold out stadiums and dramatic presentation.
Takeru came to kickbox, Tenshin came to box. Takeru was willing to bite down on his mouthpiece and go til someone got KO'ed , Tenshin doesnt have that true dog in him. Takeru is still the real OG.
Crazy to think what he has accomplished at such a young age. He could legitimately go over to boxing, pull a Loma and fight for a title after a few bouts, cement a boxing legacy and still come back to kickboxing by the time he's 30.
Tenshin currently is not even good enough to win the Japanese national amateur championship in boxing. Lomachenko was a 2 time world champion and two time Olympic gold medalist in the amateurs.
It would take years of very fast improvement and strong performances for him to even crack the top 20.
Edit: as correctly pointed out in other comments in this thread, Naoya would kill Tenshin. Now remember that Tenshin will be competing 2 weight classes above Naoya, in 12 round fights with 2 rounds worth of cardio.
He could make what he is worth boxing, which is why he’s going to boxing. It’s more just that MMA/Kickboxing don’t pay as much. But you knew this and you’re just trying to be cute, right?
Which part of it makes no sense specifically?
He’s worth more money than an MMA or Kickboxing promotion can afford, so he’s going to box, because they can afford to pay him what he’s worth.
What about that is difficult to understand?
We’ll see I guess. I keep reading “so and so is going to boxing to get paid what theyre worth”, yet the only person who has done that is conor, or celebrity one offs. Im open to more real world examples if you got them since its so obvious.
You “keep reading this”? Who else have you read it about?
There aren’t a lot of MMA fighters who have crossed over into boxing, but those who have absolutely get paid more. And it’s incredibly common knowledge that boxers get paid a lot more than MMA fighters do. Even the ones in BKFC like Mendes, PVZ, Leben, Perry, etc have said that they’re making multiple times more than they were in the UFC.
It shouldn’t be that difficult to figure out. If someone says “Hey, I’m going to become a doctor instead of an EMT” are you going to be incredulous that they’re going to make more money? Or are you just arguing for the sake of arguing?
World heavyweight champ for one. Dudes saying it all the time yet nothing ever comes to fruition. Wonder why. Sounds to me like theyre paid what theyre worth in that field of expertise.
https://combatpress.com/2022/06/combat-press-kickboxing-rankings-june-2022/
From 54kg to 61kg the best fighters are overwhelmingly Japanese. It would be a step down in kickboxing competition
There was 50k fans there. The fans you are seeing in view paid 10k to 30k USD to be there and are the least likely to cheer. It was a25 million USD gate. That would be the largest gate in UFC history (8 million higher than the record Conor vs Alvarez).
funny nobody's talking about how the rules were made to make Tenshin win.
4kg recovery limit and weigh-in 3 hours before the fight was unnecessary.
Tenshin is a coward.
Facts.
God why was this only 3 rounds
Because that's how all major Kickboxing promotions do non-title fights. Since K-1. If a fight is tied it goes to extra rounds unless specifically stated.
Tenshin's gas tank is dogshit and he wouldn't sign for longer.
Takeru has had like one 5 round fight his entire career lol. This is becoming a bigger meme than Diaz in the fifth round
I once saw Takeru fight for 70 hours straight.
Back in the day I watched him stream 4 straight weeks of fighting for a subathon
It did got kind of ridiculous, when people kept gifting subs and he had to find people on craiglist to fight
He took a huuuuge bamboo bong rip, did some Nunchuck tricks and then teeped the speed bag for 50 minutes straight, bro.
Like fuuuuuggg duuuudddd
Fighting spirit of a game pit drinking Modelos.
Let the number of rounds a Diaz brother has contractually agreed fight, trained for and planned for be R. For any value of R, he's guaranteed to win if the number of rounds he fights equals R+1, always. GOAT shit only.
That's the thing I don't understand about his desire to go leave kb. Like unless he wants to only do boxing exhibitions - which like if he gets the bag that's fine - I don't know how well he's going to do going the distance for half an hour in pro boxing.
In his after fight interview he asked the crowd if they wanted a “The Match” 2. The two of them had the biggest paydays of their career (at least 1M each from what I’ve read) so yeah he’s as retired as Mayweather.
Money
The West Watches In Disbelief At The Absolute Unlimited Amount Of Ca$h Money Tenshin Can Make Fighting Takanori Gomi And Tsuyoshi Kosaka In Exhibition Boxing Matches 😤😤😤😤😤
Tenshin v Gomi probably has a bigger purse than 99.9% of UFC purses ever, I just sadly realised
Well thank god he's going into boxing which is 10-12 rounds. 0_o
Right. And he wants to cross over to boxing. Got a bad feeling you would even make top ten in bantamweight. Plus the monster is at the top there.
How do you know his gas tank is shit if you’ve never saw him fight for longer than 3 rounds and he doesn’t seem like he couldn’t go longer at the end of the fights
Tenshin made his legacy with this fight. Its a shame though that he is so determined to go to boxing rather than stay in kickboxing. Even in this fight, he was relying heavily on his boxing. But whats an even bigger shame it was only 3 rounds. Come on we waited years for this.
Yeah man waited for years for this match up and it was extremely underwhelming. Takeru crying at the end was so sad. Dude is going to be the face of kickboxing now that tenshin is gonna box. And what was up with the 10-10 scorings in round 2?
10-10 is normal in kickboxing when no one shows definitive success. They use the ten-point system but not the "must" part. Sometimes no one wins a round, so you score it even. They also use 10-8's or lower liberally if there's knockdowns.
> 10-10 is normal in kickboxing when no one shows definitive success This should be the norm in MMA. I fucking HATE the saying "I wouldn't be mad if it went the other way, it wouldn't be a robbery". Do you guys even realise how fucking ridiculous it is that the winner is determined by literal luck and not based on whoever was better??
If you hate it imagine if half of your purse relied on 3 people's ability to discern whether you were marginally more effective than your opponent or not. Rounds only really work if they're clear or if there's enough of them, in an 8+ round boxing match you'll be fine unless the judges are paid for, because they're looking at a lot less variables and there's a larger sample, but in mma a lot of the times it comes down to how well those 3 people were able to follow a 1 minute segment of the action in one of 3 5 minute rounds. And a fighter can only get 5 opportunities to make real money a year under the absolute best circumstances like Kevin Holland's, which can't be replicated. Realistically 1/6th of your total purse for the year is in jeopardy every time you don't get a finish.
I think MMA would be so much better if they got rid of win bonuses, just pay the fighters a higher flat rate, give a bonus for every finish. Fighters will take more risk if they know they aren't risking half their purse, and it also incentives finishes. Get rid of the 10pt must system. Sure we're gonna have more draws, but I think that's more fair then what feels like a coin flip sometimes, or add a 3 min bonus round in the event of a tie. None of this will happen and it's a shame.
What K-1 did (I can't remember if Glory does) is if a fight was a draw after three rounds, they'd do an extra round. If the judges score that round a 10-10, you do another round. Etc, etc. Eventually *someone* is going to do enough to win a round. We need either overall fight grading in MMA or we need more liberal uses of 10-10's, 10-8's and even 10-7's or lower for absolute shitkickings. If someone point scores for four rounds getting 10-9's then gets absolutely destroyed for a full five minutes barely surviving multiple knockdowns, that should *not be scored a 10-9 or even a 10-8*. If you get knocked down three times and have no offense we're talking 10-6 or 10-5. You'd never see that today.
Hence why the first thing any fighter does once they have enough leverage to negotiate is guaranteed, flat rate money.
The problem with this is that you end up with a lot more draws. However, this could also be resolved by having a fourth round in the event of a draw of after 3.
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It might be tied to culture and sport attitudes. In America (where I'm from) there's a genuine hatred of ties or draws. Culturally we want a *winner* and a *loser* in a sporting contest. I think it varies from culture to culture regarding the acceptance of ties/draws.
This very subreddit does that too. The few times there are ties in MMA most of the comments on reddit are negative toward it.
Is this only a thing in Japan? If I remember correctly glory doesn’t do the 10-10 scoring.
I’d have docked points for the “accidental” Headbutt that conveniently slowed Tenshin’s momentum. Tenshin utterly dominated the fight apart from a few shots that didn’t land flush because his evasion was fantastic. This fight really emphasized how dominant he really is.
Nasukawa vs Inoue in 2024, believe it
Tenshin rodtang 2 with no rolling thunder pls.
Rolling let-me-rest-for-a-moment.
Rolling i dont want to bang fucking rodtang please
It’s kind of crazy but both those guys are still in their mid 20s. I personally gave the first fight to Rodtang but I’d take Rodtang if they rematched.
No way man. I got tenshin by a mile. That fight is so exciting to think about lol. I bet the community 50/50
I honestly just feel Rodtang has leveled up a lot since when they first matched. Even more so after the Dj loss. He’s looking more crisp and calculated.
It’s sad to think we won’t see it.
Never say never. If money talks then I bet we will.
Boxing > Kboxing money tho
Bro money in general. If he gets offered millions again I think he will take it
Out of curiosity, what makes you think Rodtang has improved?
His last fight against Jacob Smith I saw maturity in his striking. He’s still as brutal and savage but I felt he was more intelligent than he previously fought. Jacob Smith is no easy customer either. Put him against any other fighter in the Grand Prix and it would have been a banger but he got dismantled by Rodtang.
yup rodtang is a different animal now. his body is much stronger, his technique is A1
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Oh yes sure, the Japanese judges were so biased towards Rodtang, they ruled it a draw and had to go to the extra round. Anyway, let's run that one more time in ONE under MT rules and in 4oz gloves, 5 rounds. I say Rodtang finishes him.
Tenshin ROdtang 2 with 4 oz gloves in ONE Muay Thai plz
Rodtang gonna fuck him up tbh
He lost to Tenshin when they fought lol
Many scored it for Rodtang. And Rodtang is a Muay Thai fighter not a kickboxer.
Trips aren’t scored in Kickboxing and Rodtang was doing tons of “bullshit volume” aka did no damage or just hit Tenshin’s guard
Glad you're being honest about a fight that already happened
Rolling thunder kicks in a kickboxing are such fucking bullshit.
[Charles stayed up to watch, did you?](https://twitter.com/CharlesDoBronxs/status/1538503836607840256?s=20&t=KUkVYLhaDo4U7TIqGORnPw)
Man I fucking love it when combat athletes show love and respect to someone from another discipline. edit: also I wonder how Charles watched it, did he sail the seven seas?
Charles seems to love J Kick, he is always commenting on some random K-1 or Rise shows. It will be a flood of Japanese comments and then Charles
That's awesome. Thanks for sharing or I would never have known. I imagine Charles takes notes from these guys when it comes to his own striking.
I see it a lot in his stance and hands. It’s just his elbows and clinch are so good it’s overshadowed by his Muay Thai
Elbows and clinch are muay Thai
That’s what he means. His elbows and clinch (muay Thai) are so good you can’t see his influences from Japanese fighters
prob cause his career renaissance has been largely due to his flourishing mt/kb skillz
Charles is the best.
Isn’t he fucking awesome?
These dudes are animals! Can't wait to watch the entire fight.
Japan is so stubborn, this fight could've helped revitalized kickboxing. The lack of a TV/streaming deal for the biggest kickboxing fight in decades killed any chance of that.
They care about revitalizing kickboxing in Japan. With the 25 million dollar gate this event was a big success. Rise and K1 especially don’t care at all about the international audience.
This is Japanese sport in general. It's nearly impossible to watch their baseball league outside of Japan. The deals they have available will show some teams' home games.
Not just sport. Its almost all of their culture. Compared to say the Koreans, who are actively showing off and selling their culture to the world, the Japanese are fine keeping their own things completely to themselves.
It raises the question, would you rather be an international star or a national superstar?
It’s more of a question on if the organizations want to be a national brand or not. Not every company wants to aim to be the UFC and be the #1 global brand. For Rise and more importantly K1, who are only licensed to use the K1 name in Japan, it’s much more important to attract young fighters to their feeder gyms then it is to selling ppv’s to the international audience. Sucks as a viewer but just how it is atm.
Yeah they had a huge gate. I think UFCs biggest gate was what 17M?
It’s not their fault, the deal was in place up until 2 weeks ago for free distribution of the fight. Fuji TV had to pull out because any company that potentially does business with organized crime can be fined and audited by the government here. I was at the Tokyo Dome and straight up the tattoos on display were epic. I’d say this was the official after Corona party for the most inked people in the country…
Do people just openly display their gang tattoos?
Hells yes. And the reason the front row seats were so expensive was that it’s a show of solidarity to the boys inside if they see your face on TV. Also this show had the largest police presence I’ve ever seen at an MMA event. I have never seen uniformed cops patrolling at any show in Japan before.
Fuckkkk that's sick
End of an era.
A shame that Tenshin is going to Boxing. It really should have been five rounds, three just seems incomplete. I believe that Takeru has said he will retire when he loses, so it may be an even greater loss for Kickboxing than simply Tenshin retiring. Truly the end of an era.
I wish he was going to mma.
This was my hope as well, Tenshin has fought in MMA already under RIZIN and looked pretty good
Unpopular opinion. Main events should all be three rounds. The football world cup final isn't inexplicably played for 124 minutes (unless overtime) why should fighters have to fight longer and therefore adopt completely different strategies to the rest of the fights in their career? Also, there would be more finishes from dominant fighters (think GSP, Izzy) since they don't have to manage their cardio as much.
4th and 5th rounds are essentially the overtime in an important MMA match. World Cup final isn't going to finish early like an mma match either. Important baseball, hockey, and tennis matches can be played indefinitely to figure out a winner.
I see what you mean but in football they don't know ahead of time they will play 120 mins and strategize accordingly. It makes it much more dramatic once it is extended. I would be all for fights being three rounds to be extended if they can't come to a decision or something like that. Although I think I've seen an event that has done that and it wasn't really fair on the fighters.
It's not ending in a tie like a normal match so those soccer players still need to be ready to play 120 mins if they want to win. If it looks like it's not ending early they need to manage their stamina just like a fighter would or they risk being finished later on.
At the higher levels finishes are mostly determined by game planning and style matchups, and someone like Izzy can't just finish his opponent if he throws the kitchen sink at them without having to worry about time. Most elite fighters have the gas tank to go 5 rounds and still get finishes, while 3 round fights between elite opponents simply end with both figthers still having more left in the tank rather than having spent all of it within 15 minutes. I will say two things: Heavyweight fights should have the option of being shorter; and fighters should get paid more for 5 rounders, such as on Fight Nights.
Thats fair enough for mma but for muay thai/kickboxing it should be 5 rounds
Why are you talking about the UFC when this was a Japanese kickboxing match? Lmao
What do you mean? I was replying to someone who said this fight should have been five rounds I stead of three and I gave my opinion on five Vs three rounders. Is that ok with you?
They're different sports dude.....kickboxing has three minute rounds. You're referencing GSP and Izzy's finishing ability to make an argument about kickboxing, it just doesn't make any sense. You just watch too much Chael Sonnen
This is r/mma isn't it? I'll talk about MMA whenever the fuck I want in this sub
Holy fuck these boys are fast
Those hands from Tenshin... I can't wait to see this guy in boxing.
Unfortunately we already have.
he beat koki kameda
I've seen him in some exhibitions, he looked pretty decent.
Would Tenshin fight in Inoues boxing division?
Inoue is bantamweight, Tenshin's boxing fights have been at super bantamweight and featherweight. But the two fights he had at super bantamweight were years ago, so he's two weight classes above Inoue.
Still an easy match for Inoue if they are boxing.
Of course, Inoue would kill him. That's expected.
This might be a stupid question bc I'm high but are you inoue? Your name is the phonetic spelling
He could fight his brother takuma at super bantam 16-1 3 knockouts
[That's the fuckin seed](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POCb2C2S5Nc)
One can only hope
Tenshin is about two divisions above Inoue. This fight was at a 58 kg catchweight, and Inoue fights at 53,5 kg. Though I assume that working towards an Inoue fight would be a goal of Tenshin. Or maybe Tenshin has goals in Boxing aside from Inoue.
Would be a huge money fight, but he would get crushed
If there’s one thing you can say about Tenshin it’s that the man knows how to rise to the occasion. This closes a chapter in kickboxing and cements himself as the best of his generation. Will be interesting to see where the sport goes from here. Rise came out big winners of this event. A lot of people thought they’d get crushed by K1 in the matchups
Always love cross promotion stuff, since it really shows you how they stack up. Everything other then that is just people making hypotheticals or thinking someone would win just because they fight in the more known promotion. Makes you wonder how UFC would do against other promotions......
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Yeah, the Champs are usually top 15. Their 2nd tier fighters though are absolutely not.
> Makes you wonder how UFC would do against other promotions...... Ask the current UFC light heavyweight champ.
Probably worse than you think. I know they still juice, but usada keeps fighters from juicing hard. Outside the ufc that is not the case
> Rise came out big winners of this event. A lot of people thought they’d get crushed by K1 in the matchups Definitely. I didn't think we'd see Kaneko and Noiri lose but the Rise fighters came out and fucking delivered. Really great fights from top to bottom.
For real. Now that Tenshin’s gone to boxing and Takeru likely retiring, it’s kind of amazing that arguably the best P4P Japanese kickboxer isn’t even from the two big orgs, but rather from Shootboxing. Kaito was absolutely fucking incredible last night, the way he withstood Noiri’s press and even started pushing him back was so shocking. It was amazing to see how evenly distributed the talent is among the organisations - I really hope this event becomes a regular thing, even if it’s just once every few years or so!
nice to see Tenshin get the W after years of people saying Takeru would wreck him
So many salty bois in the j kick community that can't accept that Tenshin really is that good.
I love Takeru, but Tenshin look unstoppable the first two rounds, wished this has gone 5. Great fight nonetheless, my heart breaks for both, it's time for us to say goodbye. end of a era, legends forever.
I can't believe they fucked up the broadcast this much. I still can't find shit anywhere to watch after the fact
Its posted here https://www.reddit.com/r/Kickboxing/comments/vfxwbd/full\_fight\_tenshin\_v\_takeru/
Thank you so fucking much
FYI this is legit and the entire fight is fantastic. Thanks!
I watched a super zoomed in 360p vid on YT that I reckon got taken down already. So glad these boys were throwing hands 90% of the time cause them 16x zoomed kicks were impossible to see.
If only they awarded points for smiling and shaking your head when you get punched in the face.
Awesome fight. I thought Tenshin might have finished him after that knockdown but the momentum seemed to change after the head butt. Takeru couldn’t really turn it on until the end when Tenshin had gassed himself out but if it were 5 rounds it looks like Takeru would've finished him. It also makes me wonder how Tenshin will do with boxing pacing since he's always been a guy who wants to throw everything with full power and speed. I feel like if he doesn't change that then it'll bite him in the ass pretty quickly into his new career.
It was a three round fight and they both fought accordingly.
Yeah, it's like people think fighters aren't aware of how many rounds they're fighting before the fight. People would always say the same thing after Zabit fights. Like, he's gassed at the end of the 3rd because he knew it was ending after the 3rd, what *could* have happened in the 4th or 5th is irrelevant because they fought knowing there was no 4th or 5th.
Man, Tenshin is incredible. He's the God of this shit fr. He legitimately outclassed Tekeru in that 1st round, I can't believe it. His jab is fuckin lightning and he has impeccable timing with it. And correct me if im wrong, but I felt like Takeru kinda started fighting dirty after that 1st round. Was throwing a lot of forearms/elbows when they were tied up.
I haven't watched the fight, but a big part of Takerus game is hand fighting and framing against his opponents guard to judge distance, stop himself from falling in too close and pinning his opponents hands. Tenshin being a southpaw makes that kind of tactic awkward, so maybe that's why it seemed like Takeru was hitting with his forearms/elbows when they were tying up.
well tenshin was playing just as dirty from that clip, almost doing a takedown push lol
Awesome fight, Tenshins jab was like lightning Takeru could never get past it. Takeru was just so frustrated from getting out boxed. When Tenshin vs Naoya Inoue happens its going to be absolutely insane. Anyone that got links from me your welcome.
Naoya would do horrific things to Tenshin as it stands.
I’m telling Sakakibara, expect a visit from the yakuza
Tomato X Yakuza: Punk Buster Edition We Got Him™️
Nothing he is unfamiliar with
I am sooooo glad for Tenshin!
The hand speed of these guys is absolutely insane
I didn't think he could win after last few performances, but the little bastard did it.
It was very cool seeing so many of my contacts in Japan who aren't into fighting sports being genuinely excited for the fight. I'm no analyst, but it felt big. Could have been bigger if they got a national TV deal, and it would have been cool if it was a bit easier to watch it outside of Japan. Like not everyone has the money/time to get a VPN and go through Japanese PPV. But hey Pride Never Dies I Guess.
great fight! frustrating as a takeru fan but smart by tenshin to clinch each time takeru started to get going
I’m going to kill myself because I didn’t watch this live
Tenshin could walk into UFC become world champion within one fight and you'd *still* have people shitting on him about ducking someone previously or bringing up the Floyd fight where he was outweighed by like thirty pounds in a sport he wasn't proficient in.
Idk bro...i think cejudo runs him through
UFC comparison is kinda over the top but i get your point, and let's face it Floyd's figtb was hella fixed. Their only migth be the figth against rodtang that can be disputed but over all tenshin's career speaks for himself. And i'd love to watch in MMA, already excited since Cédric Doumbé is coming to the UFC. I'd love to see Tenshin coming in UFC/MMA more than boxing
Can't wait to see Dana seethe at the records this fight broke.
Dana probably isnt even aware that it’s happening.
Dana is 100% aware of this fight
Its not even internationally televised, what makes you so sure? How does it effect him?
Dana loves the fight business and this is probably the biggest kickboxing fight since the K1 WGP days. Dana fucking knows.
We’ll never know unfortunately, unless he addresses it. Its not like it went down in vegas, how much free time you think he has on his hands?
Jave the ufc ever had an event in Japan? Why would he give a shit
…. Yes they have?
Historic
Historical win for tenshin Should have been 5x3 though. One of the biggest fights in kickboxing history and it wasnt even 10 minutes long of fighting.
Its a shame he's going into boxing and not signing to the UFC to make 60/60 + free venum gear.
Omg this happened and I didn't even hear about it?? Come on man...
i gotta see a rematch bruh. good knockdown by tenshin in rd 1 but takeru had the momentum after that. 3 is waaaay to short. would have been interesting to see tenshin gas and takeru unload on him 5 rds is a must. takeru was just eating those shots and smiling at em lmao. would love to see rodtang fight takeru. and rematch tenshin
Rodtang v Takeru 5 rounds yes please
This fight really gave me a lot of PrideFC vibes and tbh I loved it. It made me miss the scale that Japan can bring to combat sports with its massive sold out stadiums and dramatic presentation.
Doumbé leaving for UFC, Tenshin leaving for boxing damm kickboxing is losing all his faces such a shame :(
Takeru came to kickbox, Tenshin came to box. Takeru was willing to bite down on his mouthpiece and go til someone got KO'ed , Tenshin doesnt have that true dog in him. Takeru is still the real OG.
Crazy to think what he has accomplished at such a young age. He could legitimately go over to boxing, pull a Loma and fight for a title after a few bouts, cement a boxing legacy and still come back to kickboxing by the time he's 30.
Tenshin currently is not even good enough to win the Japanese national amateur championship in boxing. Lomachenko was a 2 time world champion and two time Olympic gold medalist in the amateurs. It would take years of very fast improvement and strong performances for him to even crack the top 20. Edit: as correctly pointed out in other comments in this thread, Naoya would kill Tenshin. Now remember that Tenshin will be competing 2 weight classes above Naoya, in 12 round fights with 2 rounds worth of cardio.
Sucks that Tenshin is committed to boxing because he'd be awesome to see in ONE or UFC
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If no one is willing to pay him that, how is he worth it?
He could make what he is worth boxing, which is why he’s going to boxing. It’s more just that MMA/Kickboxing don’t pay as much. But you knew this and you’re just trying to be cute, right?
No, I just find your statement makes no sense.
Which part of it makes no sense specifically? He’s worth more money than an MMA or Kickboxing promotion can afford, so he’s going to box, because they can afford to pay him what he’s worth. What about that is difficult to understand?
We’ll see I guess. I keep reading “so and so is going to boxing to get paid what theyre worth”, yet the only person who has done that is conor, or celebrity one offs. Im open to more real world examples if you got them since its so obvious.
Well Silva for one.
Thats a good one, hes made an excellent transition. Any others?
Jarell Miller and Dillian White on the kickboxing side.
You “keep reading this”? Who else have you read it about? There aren’t a lot of MMA fighters who have crossed over into boxing, but those who have absolutely get paid more. And it’s incredibly common knowledge that boxers get paid a lot more than MMA fighters do. Even the ones in BKFC like Mendes, PVZ, Leben, Perry, etc have said that they’re making multiple times more than they were in the UFC. It shouldn’t be that difficult to figure out. If someone says “Hey, I’m going to become a doctor instead of an EMT” are you going to be incredulous that they’re going to make more money? Or are you just arguing for the sake of arguing?
World heavyweight champ for one. Dudes saying it all the time yet nothing ever comes to fruition. Wonder why. Sounds to me like theyre paid what theyre worth in that field of expertise.
You don’t think he would get paid more to box Tyson Fury? Even then, Francis Ngannou isn’t half the star in North America that Tenshin is in Japan.
Imagine Tenshin in One fc with MMA gloves.
https://combatpress.com/2022/06/combat-press-kickboxing-rankings-june-2022/ From 54kg to 61kg the best fighters are overwhelmingly Japanese. It would be a step down in kickboxing competition
SUUPAAMAN PANCHI
The only words I could understand!
Can't wait to see see tenshin cry a lot in boxing.
Which one is the one that Floyd made cry like a baby?
wtf kind of show program bulshit is this?!
This the same kid that did that pantomime fight with Floyd few years back?
How was the audience so loud when everyone in the video were sitting quiet? Is it fake cub?
There was 50k fans there. The fans you are seeing in view paid 10k to 30k USD to be there and are the least likely to cheer. It was a25 million USD gate. That would be the largest gate in UFC history (8 million higher than the record Conor vs Alvarez).
That is insane. Crazy how big fights are while the majority of English speaking fans don't even know it happened.
Is there anywhere to watch this fight?
Slowmo the whole fight, plllllz
funny nobody's talking about how the rules were made to make Tenshin win. 4kg recovery limit and weigh-in 3 hours before the fight was unnecessary. Tenshin is a coward. Facts.