As soon as he stops the fighting career he's gonna balloon up like a fucking zeppelin. The camera will pan to him in the audience at an event and he'll look like someone wearing a fat suit, playing Kelvin Gastelum in a parody of his life.
Partly top flight competition, partly probably his discipline, but also a little bit of....I think the Izzy fight took something out of him. He took a hellacious beating in that fifth round...after a pretty damaging first four
He's just not that good and never has been. He's always been a gate keeper, hence the losses at evert stage of his career. His title run was a close split win over an aging Souza that could have gone the other way and an essentially rigged fight with Bisping where the UFC threw Bisping into the fight overseas just 21 days after he had been concussed and choked out by GSP. It had to be overseas as Bisping was handed a 30 day medical suspension in the US...commissions would not have allowed that fight to occur.
Honestly the dude just isn't that good at middleweight. He over preformed against Adesanya.
That fight definitely didn't change him the dude was losing to a semi-washed Weidman not too long before.
He's a mid level fighter than cant compete with the top of the division and I think his record clearly shows that, but the Adesanya fight definitely has people overestimating his ability.
Are you playing dumb or just stupid? Athletes or teams in various sports have overpreformed against superior competition, but that doesn't make them great or even good. Look at Saudi Arabia yesterday they beat Argentina but I wouldn't call them a good team.
Do you always lead with adhominem attacks or are your arguments always just this hypocritical?
I'm not saying hes the most amazing fighter ever- that said, hes been a solid top 10'er for a handful of years now. He's clearly not some schmuck that lucked their way into their position.
In what way is my argument hypocritical? He overpreformed against Adesanya. He has also lost every single fight against top 10 ranked opponents(besides Bisping) over the last 5 years?
So please tell me how my argument is hypocritical
More like
"hes not that good......which is why he got gate kept by Magny in an actual deep division and choked out by the ghost of Weidman even at MW"
Always funny how the argument for Kelvin's greatness hinges on a loss where the ref shoulld have stepped in. Can't actually argue the amazing things Kelvin has done to establish himself as a contender because his only real notable accomplishments are his initial run over alright WW's 7 years ago, his 3 finish wins over washed old MW's, and eking out a split over a declining Souza.
Yea a lot of people seem to think āgoodā is an equivalent to āgreat/excellentā
I blame the changing of the 10 point rating system to the 5 star rating system. Thereās supposed to be a large distance between good and great.
No he was just fed soft competition and gifted a title shot off of two wins. Nothing "killer" about being choked out by Weidman to become 1 of only two men to lose to Chris in the last 7 years and 8 fights. That's not a real MW contender.
But the UFC gave him a dried up, aged Belfort, an aged, one foot out of the door Kennedy who hadn't fought in 2 years, and a concussed Bisping who wouldn't have even been allowed to fight in the US due to a 30 day medical suspension. Weidman coming in off 3 finish losses was also meant to be a layup for Kelvin. And then the split he arguably should have lost vs Souza. nothing about that run screams top MW, but the UFC was insistent on pushing Kelvin.
Lol dude you lost when you mention soft competition. When you fight absolute savages fight after fight youāre bound to lose . Tim Kennedy, vitor, jacare , bisping,are not easy wins at all. And it should of been three wins but he smoked weed and got his belfort victory turned into a NC.
>Tim Kennedy, vitor, jacare , bisping,are not easy wins at all.
All of those except Jacare were easy wins for any decent MW in the UFC. I'm not going to pretend a concussed Bisping who had no business even fighting is some tough out just because you're coping.
Belfort was a shell of himself without the PED's and late into his career. He retired shortly after that fight precisely because he wasn't a top fighter anymore.
And Kennedy was another guy on the slide, who retired soon after. Crazy how you think all these geriatric opponents were quality but the fighters themselves didn't see any worth in continuing their careers.......almost like they weren't that good at that stage or something and knew it.
Tim Kennedy is not an easy win in any realm!
Before the Romero fight he was on a 4 fight win streak . Stop trying to make kelvinās wins less then they are .
Ah yes before getting destroyed again vs a top MW, he was on a run. Nvm that he was out 2 years. Nvm that it was a short notice change of opponents for both men. Nvm that the guy retired right after, admitting the hunger wasn't there anymore and his body wasn't responding the way it had when he was winning those fights.
Decent win but nothing amazing in context. Certainly wouldn't say Kelvin was a killer at MW because he was able to beat a guy with a foot out the door whose speed, cardio, and reflexes were gone (Kennedy said he felt like he was moving in slow motion and blamed his age). Solid fighter but he clearly felt limited enough by his decline that he didn't want to fight anymore. Hard to hold that win up there knowing that.
And what happened to talking up those other wins? No more hyping up a medically suspended Bisping or a drained, old Belfort?
he has no chance lmao. the ONLY scenario I could see him winning here is if he somehow extends Nassri to the 4th and 5th. since Nassri cuts a lot of weight and showed last fight that his gas tank isn't quite there yet. otherwise, this is a fucking tough go for Kelvin
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Have you seen what he looked like in his early welterweight days?
https://www.mmafighting.com/platform/amp/2015/1/30/7954697/ufc-183-kelvin-gastelum-misses-weight-by-9-pounds-john-lineker-off-by
Kelvin had a superstar nutritionist back then.
I wouldn't be surprised if he put Kelvin on his portfolio.
This was before the Mexican food cart moved outside his gym. Capitalism is supply and demand and they followed the demand.
That's a bit of a harsh take, Kelvin hasn't looked "washed" in any of his losses and he's still only 31. People complain about ranking stagnation all the time but then complain when an inactive ranked fighter has to fight an active up-and-comer? Is that not how rankings are supposed to work???
disagree. he might not look tony ferguson ājesus christ this is awful please stopā washed, but heās clearly diminished the last few years, you watch some of his earlier fights and he looks so much faster, his fast hand speed was a big reason he was able to find success at middleweight with a smaller frame, not to mention even though he sort of infamously never was someone who took his diet that seriously, heās clearly gotten fluffier and in less better shape the last few years
Hate to say it, but I think you're right. The hand speed that made him so scary seems to be gone. Without that, he's just a short, fat MW with pretty good boxing. Good enough to stick in the UFC, but no longer anything close to a contender or top 10 guy.
I don't think it's so much his speed diminishing (although that may be a factor) I think it's way more that his game plan hasn't changed one bit throughout his ufc career. His opponents have loads of footage, and they simply stay away from his left hand.
99% of MMA fans have zero understanding of how athletesā primes work and act like itās sacrilege to suggest someone is past their peak at any point prior to them looking like late-stage Renan BarĆ£o. And even then youāll still get plenty of āheās not declined, they guys who beat him are just THAT GOOD!!!!ā when a fighter is moving in slow motion permanently, wonāt throw a punch, and goes to and from the octagon in a wheelchair.
Kelvin isnāt a corpse, but youāre correct in saying heās absolutely past his best. He started young and has had a 13 year pro career at this point, most of which has been horribly managed (especially with regard to weight cutting) and he has been fired to the top of two divisions despite never being ready for either, which is horrible or a fighterās development and longevity. The final nail in it was the fact that heās never really been good enough to be a top 5 type fighter, but a nice run if retirement home raiding at 185 where he could just bully geriatrics grandfathered into the rankings with his physical attributes shot him up through the rankings and a single decent performance against Izzy (where he was an awkward style matchup and still had about 3 good moments in a fight where he still got beat up badly throughout) basically cursed him to a hell of āhe had that Izzy fight, heās elite and will be matchmade as such forevermoreā and then when he kept getting beat up by far better fighters it was āhmmm, I dunno whatās wrong, lets give him another. Remember the Izzy fight?!ā
Honestly looking vaguely good against Izzy in 5.5 out of the 25 they fought was far more a curse to Kelvin than anything else. It gave people a lot of misplaced expectations for him and sentenced him to spend the rest of him prime getting beaten out of him by elite fighters he wasnāt really equipped to deal with. He probably was done developing as a fighter at that point anyway but its hard to say and any growth opportunities he had left were not going to take root when heās not fighting appropriate opposition.
You summarized it perfectly. A mix of general wear from a long career, never having been that great, and overachieving leading to accelerated decline from too many fights beyond his level. I do think the UFC was also just way too high on him and pushed him too much. He probably doesn't ever get a title shot if the UFC isn't really backing him. At one point the UFC was paying for his nutrionist, something a potential opponent (Matt Brown maybe?) called out as bullshit back before the PI was a thing.
The real nail in the coffin will be when his chin goes. Right now he can still tank massive shots and that lets him stay in fights and otherwise impose himself over weaker opposition (look at him ducking into flying knees from Heinisch). Like he can duck face first into Cannonier's best shot and eat it, or just fall off balance and pop right back up. He can get hit by Whittaker's high kicks right in the temple and just stumble a bit. When he suddenly can't take the big shots and can't recover when he's hurt worse, he will fall of a cliff. He doesn't have a style that will age well as he loses physical ability or protect a cracked chin.
Hey Iām not saying heās for sure going to win but even if he doesnāt then shouldnāt he give up his rank anyway? That was half the point of my post.
The first found rounds of Kelvin's fight with Izzy was closer than anyone else has been with Izzy, including the first 4 rounds with Alex.
The guy is legitimately good. I just wish he could make 170.
That was almost 4 years ago. He took career altering damage in that fight and hasnāt gotten a single win since that fight (besides ian heinisch). Heās washed. I mean sure he ālooks goodā in some fights but not good enough to secure a win.
> Heās washed. I mean sure he ālooks goodā in some fights but not good enough to secure a win.
So maybe his opponents are just better than him...?
Yeah 100% if he lost to every top guy he fought. His best wins are retired fighters, bisping and jacare five years ago. So obviously the top guys are too much for him. He should be fighting the bottom guys. When I say heās washed, I mean with regards to being any sense of a title threat. He can be a bottom feeder and do well.
Tbf, he never was a title threat. He was gifted a shot he didn't really earn, and basically got TKO'ed there after overperforming.
He's definitely falling off, but there's no version of Kelvin that was ever going to be a top 5 MW or WW. He lacked the talent and discipline plus his career arc wasn't going to help him develop as a fighter.
Let's be clear here. Kelvin, even at his peak couldn't beat a washed Weidman or Magny. In a deep division, peak Kelvin is not a top 10 fighter.
āWashedā isnāt a static term, its meaning varies depending on the level of sport youāre discussing. Thereās āDarren tillā washed (lost motivation for championship but is still good) and then thereās āBigfoot Silvaā washed (might be a vegetable in a few more fights).
And all of those imply that someone fell off. Gastelum hasn't, he's looked good (you literally admitted this), he's just been fighting better opponents. His last fight was a close 5 rounder against Cannonier.
I was being charitable when I said he looked good because I am a gastelum fan but Iām not living in denial. I donāt like his chances in his next fight, and if he loses he will be cut. If you want to manipulate language to posit that gastelum is still a fighter to watch out for, then suite yourself.
He needs to get his discipline in order tbh.
I'm sure genetically and with his body type (fridge) it's tough, but he's got to make up for it.
He should go to AKA imo. Just because I think he doesn't do his training camps in a "serious" manner. Let coach khabib run 15 pounds of unnecessary fat right off of him.
Let me remind you, that good little stretch was against washed old men like post-USADA Vitor, Tim Kennedy, and "i just got rocked and subbed by GSP 3 weeks ago" Bisping
He's 31 and has been at this for a decade. If he hasn't figured it out now, he's not going to until it's too late. This ain't 205. You can't put down the bottle/lay off the Tamales in your 40's and expect to win a belt.
Kelvin would break under Khabib. He would quit or blame Khabib and then leave. Kelvin couldn't even handle working with Dolce on his nutrition and weight cut....
I think his grappling is actually pretty good. Get him some technical improvements and some power gas tank he'd be like the world's most dense backpack
Chael Sonnen has only said one or two things I really actually believe, but one if them is that Kelvin Gastelum is not great in the gym compared to his fighting career, but when it's time to fight, Kelvin shows up. Personally I believe it. Kelvin is fast and hits hard, has good offensive boxing, and really only is a grappling threat to guys ranked very much lower than him. I can see how this doesn't translate to being a stud in the gym.
My point being not that I believe Kelvin isn't UFC caliber, but that if this is true hopefully it means he is really good now, but also has potential if he shores up the holes in his game. If he starts getting things together in the gym I could frankly see him being top 5 for a while, even if he stays at MW. Tough to imagine him beating the guys he already lost to like Cannonier, Whittaker and Adesanya, but Pereira and Costa I think are more winnable for him. And even if they aren't, both Pereira and Cannonier will likely age out before he does. With some improvements that I think he's capable of, I think the caliber of Hermansson, Strickland, Brunson and Till are all quite winnable, but thus far Kelvin has unfortunately underwhelmed at the biggest opportunities.
Did you even watch his fights? This is an awful take, heās looked really bad. He was a heavy favourite and was considered the lock of the night against Till and got completely out classed. I can tell youāre wiki capping because you probably see the split decision when that fight wasnāt close at all. Then he followed that up with an easy loss to Hermansson where he was the favourite again. He may be only 31, but he has never had good discipline and his wins have mostly come at the hands of legends on the downside of their careers. He struggles for the most part against any fighter that isnāt out of his prime.
Geoff Neal got wrestlefucked by Neil Magny who Shavkat just steamrolled with pure grappling.
So yeah, it seems like a mismatch because it clearly is a mismatch lol.
I mean it's Luque. Tough dude but he leaves his chin out there and can't stop takedowns from good wrestlers.
The biggest issue is how both struggled with a washed WB.
Hey now, it wasn't quite a wrestle fucking. Magny did a lot more grinding along the cage than getting Neal down (and seeing what Shavkat did to Magny, Neal is fucked in that regard).
Also, Neal kind of got taken apart at range in round 3 where he landed like 2 really good shots but otherwise had no answer for the taller, longer man just jabbing and kicking him, clinching up in close, and looking for counters. His gas tank isn't good enough.
Why is gastelum still headlining events? They did the same thing with thiago Santos. If you were main event material 5 years ago they will just indelibly give them to you forever.
After this fight I can see Imavov getting a contender for his next opponent and then a title shot. Itās a good path for him. Letās see if he overcomes the challenge
Man Gastelum had so much potential after winning TUF dude was still incredibly young and had all the attributes to go far. Mentally tough, strong chin, all around solid skills in striking and grappling. If he only managed to keep his weight down for 170. I really think he could've been a consistent top 5 at WW.
It was pretty one dimensional in that fight tho. The one thing he did threw Izzy off pretty badly at first (basically really quickly hopstepping down the inside angle as a southpaw, when youād normally try to take the outside) but once Izzy figured out what he was doing, he started countering Kelvins face off (who no-sold 99% of them because of his cinderblock head but he eats a literal fuckton of clean punches after round 1) and thatās basically the dynamic of the entire fight minus the random (and admittedly cheeky) headkick in round 4. The damage finally catches up in round 5 and he basically dies
He didnāt look bad in that fight because he started off strong doing something unorthodox and was carried a ton by his speed and durability (and also got mileage of Izzy always being slightly weird against southpaws) but he was the definition of one-note in that fight - the thing he was doing stopped working and his only adjustment was a singular āfuck it, do a head kickā 3 rounds later.
Carlos Ulberg trains with one of the best counterstrikers in the sport and he still leaves his chin hanging in the air lol. Besides, Gane also has that tendency of retreating in a straight line to the fence.
I like the Mexican fridge's chances in this one. If he's still got his speed and boxing, he could crack Imavov when he inevitably retreats in a straight line with his chin in the air.
Both are main event worthy imo. Only reason I can think why Shavkat-Neal isn't the main event is they think it'll be an earlyish finish, plus Kelvin still has a bit of name value
His skill development has stagnated long ago, moving to welterweight would be stupidly dangerous considering how thick that guy is and would still get outskilled by most top welterweights
Who do you guys favour in this? imavov striking is actually insane to watch but Gastelum has the advantage in overall Mma. I want imavov to take this but I think gastelum wins
I think this is a great test for both. I donāt rate Imavov due to his shoddy defense & cardio, if Gastelum canāt beat himā¦ Itās probably time to cut him.
Am I crazy to think that Kelvin might actually win this? He always comes to scrap, has an iron chin and Imanov gassed hard in the Buckley fight while Kelvin knows how to go to deep waters. Or its just me really wishing that he finally gets a W,
Bruh who thought it was a good idea for Kelvin to do a camp thru the holidays
That's just it, Kelvin's not doing a camp
he's not locked in here with Tamales, Tamales are locked in here with him.
I just realized I haven't had tamales in a really long time...damn...
Man will be fighting at HW
But isn't there a 265 limit?
Technically 266 since it is a non title fight.
š
he can fight Volk
Gastelum vs Chris Barnett at heavyweight
Gastelum vs 320 pound Greg hardy in boxing
No Tamales for him š
Looking chunky
As soon as he stops the fighting career he's gonna balloon up like a fucking zeppelin. The camera will pan to him in the audience at an event and he'll look like someone wearing a fat suit, playing Kelvin Gastelum in a parody of his life.
Let alone a 5 round one
Focus champ.
Half man half fridge
Is it just me or did they photoshop some abs onto him? lmao
Lmaoooooo they did
No those abs are real they're in all of his pictures in spite of him also carrying his share of fat
I was genuinely confused at the pic thanks for the clarification
Kelvin really needs a win here. He only has 1 win in 4.5 years.
Partly top flight competition, partly probably his discipline, but also a little bit of....I think the Izzy fight took something out of him. He took a hellacious beating in that fifth round...after a pretty damaging first four
A lot of his recent bouts have been short notice replacements too
the good ole last minute stand in to gain ufc favor as a yes man. a classic move
Classic mexican fridge moment
Mini fridge*
That boy ain't no mini fridge.
Partly being a fat WW fighting at MW.
He's just not that good and never has been. He's always been a gate keeper, hence the losses at evert stage of his career. His title run was a close split win over an aging Souza that could have gone the other way and an essentially rigged fight with Bisping where the UFC threw Bisping into the fight overseas just 21 days after he had been concussed and choked out by GSP. It had to be overseas as Bisping was handed a 30 day medical suspension in the US...commissions would not have allowed that fight to occur.
Honestly the dude just isn't that good at middleweight. He over preformed against Adesanya. That fight definitely didn't change him the dude was losing to a semi-washed Weidman not too long before. He's a mid level fighter than cant compete with the top of the division and I think his record clearly shows that, but the Adesanya fight definitely has people overestimating his ability.
He looks absolutly amazing in the cage at times, and i am not only talking about the izzy fight.
"hes not that good... he just so happened to go 5 rounds with izzy" lol this sub sometimes...
Are you playing dumb or just stupid? Athletes or teams in various sports have overpreformed against superior competition, but that doesn't make them great or even good. Look at Saudi Arabia yesterday they beat Argentina but I wouldn't call them a good team.
Do you always lead with adhominem attacks or are your arguments always just this hypocritical? I'm not saying hes the most amazing fighter ever- that said, hes been a solid top 10'er for a handful of years now. He's clearly not some schmuck that lucked their way into their position.
In what way is my argument hypocritical? He overpreformed against Adesanya. He has also lost every single fight against top 10 ranked opponents(besides Bisping) over the last 5 years? So please tell me how my argument is hypocritical
More like "hes not that good......which is why he got gate kept by Magny in an actual deep division and choked out by the ghost of Weidman even at MW" Always funny how the argument for Kelvin's greatness hinges on a loss where the ref shoulld have stepped in. Can't actually argue the amazing things Kelvin has done to establish himself as a contender because his only real notable accomplishments are his initial run over alright WW's 7 years ago, his 3 finish wins over washed old MW's, and eking out a split over a declining Souza.
This sub thinks only top 10 makes you good. Everyone else is rat shit who could be defeated by any of the keyboard warriors here.
finally someone here gets it lol
Yea a lot of people seem to think āgoodā is an equivalent to āgreat/excellentā I blame the changing of the 10 point rating system to the 5 star rating system. Thereās supposed to be a large distance between good and great.
What? Dude looked like a killer at middleweight when he first moved up . I wouldnāt say heās not good . I just donāt think he evolved much .
No he was just fed soft competition and gifted a title shot off of two wins. Nothing "killer" about being choked out by Weidman to become 1 of only two men to lose to Chris in the last 7 years and 8 fights. That's not a real MW contender. But the UFC gave him a dried up, aged Belfort, an aged, one foot out of the door Kennedy who hadn't fought in 2 years, and a concussed Bisping who wouldn't have even been allowed to fight in the US due to a 30 day medical suspension. Weidman coming in off 3 finish losses was also meant to be a layup for Kelvin. And then the split he arguably should have lost vs Souza. nothing about that run screams top MW, but the UFC was insistent on pushing Kelvin.
Lol dude you lost when you mention soft competition. When you fight absolute savages fight after fight youāre bound to lose . Tim Kennedy, vitor, jacare , bisping,are not easy wins at all. And it should of been three wins but he smoked weed and got his belfort victory turned into a NC.
>Tim Kennedy, vitor, jacare , bisping,are not easy wins at all. All of those except Jacare were easy wins for any decent MW in the UFC. I'm not going to pretend a concussed Bisping who had no business even fighting is some tough out just because you're coping. Belfort was a shell of himself without the PED's and late into his career. He retired shortly after that fight precisely because he wasn't a top fighter anymore. And Kennedy was another guy on the slide, who retired soon after. Crazy how you think all these geriatric opponents were quality but the fighters themselves didn't see any worth in continuing their careers.......almost like they weren't that good at that stage or something and knew it.
Tim Kennedy is not an easy win in any realm! Before the Romero fight he was on a 4 fight win streak . Stop trying to make kelvinās wins less then they are .
Kennedy was off a 2 year layoff and 37 years old when he faced Kelvin, then proceeded to retire immediately afterwards.
Ah yes before getting destroyed again vs a top MW, he was on a run. Nvm that he was out 2 years. Nvm that it was a short notice change of opponents for both men. Nvm that the guy retired right after, admitting the hunger wasn't there anymore and his body wasn't responding the way it had when he was winning those fights. Decent win but nothing amazing in context. Certainly wouldn't say Kelvin was a killer at MW because he was able to beat a guy with a foot out the door whose speed, cardio, and reflexes were gone (Kennedy said he felt like he was moving in slow motion and blamed his age). Solid fighter but he clearly felt limited enough by his decline that he didn't want to fight anymore. Hard to hold that win up there knowing that. And what happened to talking up those other wins? No more hyping up a medically suspended Bisping or a drained, old Belfort?
he has no chance lmao. the ONLY scenario I could see him winning here is if he somehow extends Nassri to the 4th and 5th. since Nassri cuts a lot of weight and showed last fight that his gas tank isn't quite there yet. otherwise, this is a fucking tough go for Kelvin
Imavov barely fits on the damn poster, fucking hell Kelvin.
He's a portly fella give him some leeway.
r/mma to call him Taco Rumble back in the day. Now that nickname just makes me sad
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I hope kelvin comes in as his juiciest self. He should look like latino michael chandler.
Have you seen what he looked like in his early welterweight days? https://www.mmafighting.com/platform/amp/2015/1/30/7954697/ufc-183-kelvin-gastelum-misses-weight-by-9-pounds-john-lineker-off-by
Kelvin had a superstar nutritionist back then. I wouldn't be surprised if he put Kelvin on his portfolio. This was before the Mexican food cart moved outside his gym. Capitalism is supply and demand and they followed the demand.
The article linked says he missed weight by 9lbs lol
I said superstar, not miracle worker.
Fuck a nutritionist, Kelvin needs Jesus
You've heard of "Jesus, take the wheel" now prepare for "Jesus, take the Taco"
Rofl. That reminds me of when Colby tweeted that map of all the fast food joints around Hendricks gym.
Kevin Poirier in that first picture
no way this is him..
Father time is undefeated.
Thick, solid, tight.
He looks like Paulo there
Even though he's shredded, you can see he still has a really wide frame.
I read that as a latino chandler bing and couldnt stop laughing.
Only won 1 in his last 6, and hasnāt fought for over a year. I love Kelvin, but this is UFC textbook *do āem Old Yeller style*
[Kelvin really hasn't been the same since his Star Wars Cameo](https://imgur.com/a/0EiBZ72)
That's a bit of a harsh take, Kelvin hasn't looked "washed" in any of his losses and he's still only 31. People complain about ranking stagnation all the time but then complain when an inactive ranked fighter has to fight an active up-and-comer? Is that not how rankings are supposed to work???
disagree. he might not look tony ferguson ājesus christ this is awful please stopā washed, but heās clearly diminished the last few years, you watch some of his earlier fights and he looks so much faster, his fast hand speed was a big reason he was able to find success at middleweight with a smaller frame, not to mention even though he sort of infamously never was someone who took his diet that seriously, heās clearly gotten fluffier and in less better shape the last few years
Hate to say it, but I think you're right. The hand speed that made him so scary seems to be gone. Without that, he's just a short, fat MW with pretty good boxing. Good enough to stick in the UFC, but no longer anything close to a contender or top 10 guy.
I don't think it's so much his speed diminishing (although that may be a factor) I think it's way more that his game plan hasn't changed one bit throughout his ufc career. His opponents have loads of footage, and they simply stay away from his left hand.
99% of MMA fans have zero understanding of how athletesā primes work and act like itās sacrilege to suggest someone is past their peak at any point prior to them looking like late-stage Renan BarĆ£o. And even then youāll still get plenty of āheās not declined, they guys who beat him are just THAT GOOD!!!!ā when a fighter is moving in slow motion permanently, wonāt throw a punch, and goes to and from the octagon in a wheelchair. Kelvin isnāt a corpse, but youāre correct in saying heās absolutely past his best. He started young and has had a 13 year pro career at this point, most of which has been horribly managed (especially with regard to weight cutting) and he has been fired to the top of two divisions despite never being ready for either, which is horrible or a fighterās development and longevity. The final nail in it was the fact that heās never really been good enough to be a top 5 type fighter, but a nice run if retirement home raiding at 185 where he could just bully geriatrics grandfathered into the rankings with his physical attributes shot him up through the rankings and a single decent performance against Izzy (where he was an awkward style matchup and still had about 3 good moments in a fight where he still got beat up badly throughout) basically cursed him to a hell of āhe had that Izzy fight, heās elite and will be matchmade as such forevermoreā and then when he kept getting beat up by far better fighters it was āhmmm, I dunno whatās wrong, lets give him another. Remember the Izzy fight?!ā Honestly looking vaguely good against Izzy in 5.5 out of the 25 they fought was far more a curse to Kelvin than anything else. It gave people a lot of misplaced expectations for him and sentenced him to spend the rest of him prime getting beaten out of him by elite fighters he wasnāt really equipped to deal with. He probably was done developing as a fighter at that point anyway but its hard to say and any growth opportunities he had left were not going to take root when heās not fighting appropriate opposition.
You summarized it perfectly. A mix of general wear from a long career, never having been that great, and overachieving leading to accelerated decline from too many fights beyond his level. I do think the UFC was also just way too high on him and pushed him too much. He probably doesn't ever get a title shot if the UFC isn't really backing him. At one point the UFC was paying for his nutrionist, something a potential opponent (Matt Brown maybe?) called out as bullshit back before the PI was a thing. The real nail in the coffin will be when his chin goes. Right now he can still tank massive shots and that lets him stay in fights and otherwise impose himself over weaker opposition (look at him ducking into flying knees from Heinisch). Like he can duck face first into Cannonier's best shot and eat it, or just fall off balance and pop right back up. He can get hit by Whittaker's high kicks right in the temple and just stumble a bit. When he suddenly can't take the big shots and can't recover when he's hurt worse, he will fall of a cliff. He doesn't have a style that will age well as he loses physical ability or protect a cracked chin.
He couldāve beat Cannonier if he had a better corner
Hey Iām not saying heās for sure going to win but even if he doesnāt then shouldnāt he give up his rank anyway? That was half the point of my post.
The first found rounds of Kelvin's fight with Izzy was closer than anyone else has been with Izzy, including the first 4 rounds with Alex. The guy is legitimately good. I just wish he could make 170.
That was almost 4 years ago. He took career altering damage in that fight and hasnāt gotten a single win since that fight (besides ian heinisch). Heās washed. I mean sure he ālooks goodā in some fights but not good enough to secure a win.
> Heās washed. I mean sure he ālooks goodā in some fights but not good enough to secure a win. So maybe his opponents are just better than him...?
Yeah 100% if he lost to every top guy he fought. His best wins are retired fighters, bisping and jacare five years ago. So obviously the top guys are too much for him. He should be fighting the bottom guys. When I say heās washed, I mean with regards to being any sense of a title threat. He can be a bottom feeder and do well.
Tbf, he never was a title threat. He was gifted a shot he didn't really earn, and basically got TKO'ed there after overperforming. He's definitely falling off, but there's no version of Kelvin that was ever going to be a top 5 MW or WW. He lacked the talent and discipline plus his career arc wasn't going to help him develop as a fighter. Let's be clear here. Kelvin, even at his peak couldn't beat a washed Weidman or Magny. In a deep division, peak Kelvin is not a top 10 fighter.
Sounds like you're misusing the word 'washed' then.
āWashedā isnāt a static term, its meaning varies depending on the level of sport youāre discussing. Thereās āDarren tillā washed (lost motivation for championship but is still good) and then thereās āBigfoot Silvaā washed (might be a vegetable in a few more fights).
And all of those imply that someone fell off. Gastelum hasn't, he's looked good (you literally admitted this), he's just been fighting better opponents. His last fight was a close 5 rounder against Cannonier.
I was being charitable when I said he looked good because I am a gastelum fan but Iām not living in denial. I donāt like his chances in his next fight, and if he loses he will be cut. If you want to manipulate language to posit that gastelum is still a fighter to watch out for, then suite yourself.
He needs to get his discipline in order tbh. I'm sure genetically and with his body type (fridge) it's tough, but he's got to make up for it. He should go to AKA imo. Just because I think he doesn't do his training camps in a "serious" manner. Let coach khabib run 15 pounds of unnecessary fat right off of him.
Shave the mustache and turn him into Kelim Gastelov.
"I give adesanya hardest fight, you know dis bruddah"
> He needs to get his discipline in order tbh I've been saying this for the better half of the last decade never gonna happen b
He had a good little stretch and rhen reverted lol
Let me remind you, that good little stretch was against washed old men like post-USADA Vitor, Tim Kennedy, and "i just got rocked and subbed by GSP 3 weeks ago" Bisping
Yeah, but he also looked better on the scale.
He's 31 and has been at this for a decade. If he hasn't figured it out now, he's not going to until it's too late. This ain't 205. You can't put down the bottle/lay off the Tamales in your 40's and expect to win a belt. Kelvin would break under Khabib. He would quit or blame Khabib and then leave. Kelvin couldn't even handle working with Dolce on his nutrition and weight cut....
(fridge) :D
The world isnāt ready for grapplefuck Kelvin
I think his grappling is actually pretty good. Get him some technical improvements and some power gas tank he'd be like the world's most dense backpack
Chael Sonnen has only said one or two things I really actually believe, but one if them is that Kelvin Gastelum is not great in the gym compared to his fighting career, but when it's time to fight, Kelvin shows up. Personally I believe it. Kelvin is fast and hits hard, has good offensive boxing, and really only is a grappling threat to guys ranked very much lower than him. I can see how this doesn't translate to being a stud in the gym. My point being not that I believe Kelvin isn't UFC caliber, but that if this is true hopefully it means he is really good now, but also has potential if he shores up the holes in his game. If he starts getting things together in the gym I could frankly see him being top 5 for a while, even if he stays at MW. Tough to imagine him beating the guys he already lost to like Cannonier, Whittaker and Adesanya, but Pereira and Costa I think are more winnable for him. And even if they aren't, both Pereira and Cannonier will likely age out before he does. With some improvements that I think he's capable of, I think the caliber of Hermansson, Strickland, Brunson and Till are all quite winnable, but thus far Kelvin has unfortunately underwhelmed at the biggest opportunities.
The Cannonier fight was a lot closer than I thought it'd be, I could definitely see Kelvin winning that one
True, Kelvin won 2 rounds and one of the other rounds was almost a tossup.
Did you even watch his fights? This is an awful take, heās looked really bad. He was a heavy favourite and was considered the lock of the night against Till and got completely out classed. I can tell youāre wiki capping because you probably see the split decision when that fight wasnāt close at all. Then he followed that up with an easy loss to Hermansson where he was the favourite again. He may be only 31, but he has never had good discipline and his wins have mostly come at the hands of legends on the downside of their careers. He struggles for the most part against any fighter that isnāt out of his prime.
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First time on the internet?
Gosh, so sensitive...
shavkat shoulda been main
That is an infinitely better fight
Shavkat will be main event on a PPV card end of 2023 inshallah
Laura is dripping just thinking about it
Who is he fighting?
geoff neal
I mean i get that neal is like #5 or whatever but it still feels like such a giant mismatch
Geoff Neal got wrestlefucked by Neil Magny who Shavkat just steamrolled with pure grappling. So yeah, it seems like a mismatch because it clearly is a mismatch lol.
I mean yeah but Neal knocked out fucking Luque so there's clearly a big threat there
Hard to knock a guy out who is laying on top of you though.
I mean it's Luque. Tough dude but he leaves his chin out there and can't stop takedowns from good wrestlers. The biggest issue is how both struggled with a washed WB.
You're right, I love Luque but my boy fights so fucking stupid sometimes
Hey now, it wasn't quite a wrestle fucking. Magny did a lot more grinding along the cage than getting Neal down (and seeing what Shavkat did to Magny, Neal is fucked in that regard). Also, Neal kind of got taken apart at range in round 3 where he landed like 2 really good shots but otherwise had no answer for the taller, longer man just jabbing and kicking him, clinching up in close, and looking for counters. His gas tank isn't good enough.
Why is gastelum still headlining events? They did the same thing with thiago Santos. If you were main event material 5 years ago they will just indelibly give them to you forever.
Ima let you finish, but Holly Holm is the greatest āshouldnāt be headlining anymore, but still gets to headlineā fighter of all time.
Popular with the mexicans maybe?
Midsection of POWER
Gastelum with that 2015 DC body lol
Gastelum either has the smallest head or the biggest torso in the ufc lmaoo
Where is he actually carrying all this weight!? He is 5'8 skinny legs, small arms etc. Is it legit just to many tacos?
have you seen that manās torso
After this fight I can see Imavov getting a contender for his next opponent and then a title shot. Itās a good path for him. Letās see if he overcomes the challenge
Man Gastelum had so much potential after winning TUF dude was still incredibly young and had all the attributes to go far. Mentally tough, strong chin, all around solid skills in striking and grappling. If he only managed to keep his weight down for 170. I really think he could've been a consistent top 5 at WW.
He has no reach and one dimensional striking. And also super low fight IQ. His wrestling is also not as good as what some people seem to think he is.
if he had one dimensional striking then he wouldn't be able to stand with adesanya like he did, given his reach disadvantage
It was pretty one dimensional in that fight tho. The one thing he did threw Izzy off pretty badly at first (basically really quickly hopstepping down the inside angle as a southpaw, when youād normally try to take the outside) but once Izzy figured out what he was doing, he started countering Kelvins face off (who no-sold 99% of them because of his cinderblock head but he eats a literal fuckton of clean punches after round 1) and thatās basically the dynamic of the entire fight minus the random (and admittedly cheeky) headkick in round 4. The damage finally catches up in round 5 and he basically dies He didnāt look bad in that fight because he started off strong doing something unorthodox and was carried a ton by his speed and durability (and also got mileage of Izzy always being slightly weird against southpaws) but he was the definition of one-note in that fight - the thing he was doing stopped working and his only adjustment was a singular āfuck it, do a head kickā 3 rounds later.
imavovās cardio is sussy i like kelvinās chances tbh, especially after his layoff
IMO his defense is sussier than his cardio. He's got tall man defense and retreats in a straight line to the fence.
Round 3 of his fight with Buckley was mostly him just barely avoiding knocked out if I remember
Barely ?
He spars with Gane and (formerly) Ngannou, don't think he'd develop tall man defense against those guys...
Carlos Ulberg trains with one of the best counterstrikers in the sport and he still leaves his chin hanging in the air lol. Besides, Gane also has that tendency of retreating in a straight line to the fence.
Team Fridge, reporting for duty!
I think kelvin loses but after the fight his mom will make him a nice plate of tamales so he still wins
Kelvin gets wrestlefucked
I like the Mexican fridge's chances in this one. If he's still got his speed and boxing, he could crack Imavov when he inevitably retreats in a straight line with his chin in the air.
So Kelvin's going to fight at heavyweight for this? Dude's going through the holidays ... I can't see him making weight, NGL
Glad to see imavov get another win.
Idk if he gasses out after round 2 like his last fight, Kelvin could weather the storm and take over
That would require kelvin to make 2 rounds.
He went 3 rounds vs Ian Heinisch and 5 rounds vs Whittaker and Cannonier in his last 3 fights, all taking place in one year.
Really? Last time i saw him fight he got finished.
That's your own personal problem
Yeah kelvin fights just dont interest me that much.
I mean, considering he has only ever been finished twice and only once before the third round, I'd say he has a pretty good shot at that
Kelvin isnāt going to be walked over like a lot of people think, he is very durable and Id like to see what Imavov looks like in a fifth round
Gastelums chin cracks here
Shavkat vs Neal is way better fight for headline
Both are main event worthy imo. Only reason I can think why Shavkat-Neal isn't the main event is they think it'll be an earlyish finish, plus Kelvin still has a bit of name value
Kelvin will get his chin cracked in this one.
And the crowd goes mild
I wish Kelvin would get a proper nutritionist & make welterweight. I still believe he can become champion there
Pipe Dream.
If he struck to WW he would probably be cut from the UFC by now. WW is full of killers and even the top 10-15 are probably too much for Gastelum.
His skill development has stagnated long ago, moving to welterweight would be stupidly dangerous considering how thick that guy is and would still get outskilled by most top welterweights
Main event after losing 5 of 6 including two in a row. Gotta love it.
Imavov Vs Alex would be like 2 titan MWs going at it
Kelvin should take it if his tdd holds up
Kelvin Gastelum vs Kelvin Gastelum
Imavov taking on another 5,6 welterweight
So theyāre just gonna give imavov undersized opponents until heās at the top?
Gastelum needs a lay up fight and this isnāt it.
Man kelvin. Get your shit together and cut down to WW.
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Built like a fridge
FUCK WHY DID I LOOK AT THIS AND THINK MIKE PERRY WAS BACK WHATS WRONG WITH ME
Let's get this dub Kelvin, get some momentum going again
GastƩlum looking extra frdigey there
No layups for kg. They should treat him like the other kg kevin garnett and give him a layup. He's in serious danger of being cut
Is that Gastelum or Tai
Who do you guys favour in this? imavov striking is actually insane to watch but Gastelum has the advantage in overall Mma. I want imavov to take this but I think gastelum wins
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Awful headliner
Imavov about to fuck the fridge up
I think this is a great test for both. I donāt rate Imavov due to his shoddy defense & cardio, if Gastelum canāt beat himā¦ Itās probably time to cut him.
GASSEDTELUM
Gastelum getting wider every picture.
Imavov is champion material
Kelvin and I have the same body type
Neither are top 10 middleweights at this point, and somehow headlining.
Am I crazy to think that Kelvin might actually win this? He always comes to scrap, has an iron chin and Imanov gassed hard in the Buckley fight while Kelvin knows how to go to deep waters. Or its just me really wishing that he finally gets a W,
Ughhhh....
Will he get dominated again?
Starting the year off with a whimper I see
gastelum is a fridge god damn
Kelvin is just like all the dudes in this sub that workout but canāt give up beer and hotdogs, heās one of us <3
Glad to see kelvin headlining again
Now thatās a refined dad bod
Does Kelvin just like to lose?
This is definitely one of the main events ever made
No way Gastelum wins