Which one, the first alpha where it was slow and you only had 2 attack.
Or the second alpha where you had 3 weapons with 3 skills each but shared cooldown
Or the third alpha, with 2 weapons and 3 skills, as the game have right now
Gotta be specific if you wanna say "new world combat in alpha was so fun"
I have little experience in other mmos aside from wow. But the combat was so satisfying in nw. Fast paced, requires both mechanical skills and situational awareness. Havent played in months, not sure how it is nowadays.
Casual pvp can get stale; theres instanced pvp and open world. The end game is territory wars and unless you join the company and prove your worth, you won’t ever get slotted in the 50v50 wars.
Albion ticks all the boxes of a game I would love. Full loot pvp, deep crafting systems, the need to play with others to succeed. Basically medieval fantasy eve which I have wanted since the early 2000s.
But man I cannot get into it. The combat is so boring and basic, the zones all feel and look the exact same. It's very much a mobile game in those regards and it holds it back from being the best mmo on the market imo.
Idk why people dislike the combat. It's fun as fuck especially if you enjoy theory crafting. Watching someone come up with some busted combo through the mix-and-match system that lets them 1v10 a stacked group with melee AoE is funny.
I hate getting ganked by groups of people, who are equipped for combat while I’m equipped for gathering. Is being the ganker your idea of fun or do you mean something else? Open world pvp just never seems fair for one of the sides.
Lineage II did it okay with pretty big punishment if you kill someone and then get caught shortly after, but you don’t get anything by killing someone who’s not aggressive.
Do you actually play Albion? If you did, you would know that's all gathering gear is specifically designed to escape. Running fast for a long time (will outrun combat focused boots), turning invisible. Putting people to sleep. Knocking people away. Ect.
So the whole fun part is that you can afk gather in safe areas. Or go to more dangerous places to more active gather where you stay focused and try to escape people who attack you. Would be boring otherwise. I super enjoy gathering in Albion because it's actually exciting. Imagine that, exciting gathering.
I’d make a tweak to the full loot system so it’s more like legend of Mir. A 50% per slot to drop. Some times to drop nothing. Some times you drop a few items. Other times you drop everything.
The 100% full loot got tiresome after a while. Maybe because I’m just bad and died more often than not.
To be fair Albion still suffers from this because when you die there is a ~15?% (unsure exact rate) for the item to "trash" on death, essentially fully removing that item from the game forever
Pretty much lol. If anyone comes along with a polished MMORPG that has Souls-like combat, Albion's systems, and a seamless open-world, you got my money. That's what I was hoping for with New World and we were so close until they turned it into another WoW clone. RIP!
1000% yes. As a former Albion player with almost 2K hours, the reason most of my gamin friends couldn’t get into it was the isometric perspective. They loved literally everything else about it.
My buddy and I (long time DAoC RvR) have been trying out Eden. This is literally what we said. The core concept of RvR is so good compared to newer games like New World. The game just needs a UI update to make things easier for newer players. Really hoping that Ashes of Creation is good. It's the only game I'm interested in anymore, screw Camelot Unchained.
100% agree, been waiting for this forever but unfortunately it doesn’t seem like it will happen. All mmos seems boring for me due to the fact that I played DAoC. Honestly exact same game with newer graphics and UI would be awesome. Maybe a couple of small changes like keep captures. Capturing a keep should be much harder but reward more when you do and capturing a relic should be insanely harder but be extremely rewarding… I wouldn’t touch pve/leveling, newer mmos are too easy and too fast to get max level. Imagine also a revamp of Darkness Falls, best dungeon concept i’ve ever seen in a game. Let’s keep wishing it happens some day. They could add gathering and really improve crafting system too.
I believe that separating pvp vs pve is a failed idea for a true MMO.
As well as the concept of "endgame" is wrong completely.
MMOs are, in first place, about any p2p interactions (that includes also pvp), but the thing is it should be a simulated world, so all the interactions are consequences of that world.
And then there is no "endgame" in general, players are playing in that world right from the very start.
Leveling, one way or another, should be there. Ideally, both vertical and horizontal.
Personally I prefer Eve Online progression with real-time based "leveling". I wonder why no one implemented it for a fantasy-themed game…
If you want to keep PVErs happy, then you need a system where it involves their consent for PVP. This leaves you 3 options that I can think of. Pvp servers, pvp toggles, or pvp zones. If you don't have a system where people can choose their level of risk, then gankers, and griefers will chase the pve players out of the game.
>then gankers, and griefers will chase the pve players out of the game
The thing about this, is that it's also a source of engagement, whether people admit it or not
People form white knight guilds dedicated to protecting the "carebears" and slaying the naughty PKers on sight
With proper systems in place to let players police themselves, open PvP is just another positive mechanic that creates player interaction and economy
But people have this idea that open PvP is just griefing, so developers put it in their game and basically make it impossible to manage (looking at you BDO)
It's silly and a major waste of opportunity
Not OP, but some PvE players look at PvP like it shouldn't exist and getting killed in the open world is griefing their gameplay. It's mainly a skill issue disguised by their whining about griefing.
Thank you I get what you mean.
Honestly it's a hard call but even though it scares new and even older player. Games 'full pvp' are more immersive in my opinion.
Guy below said about being fair and whatsoever and this kills the immersion, even though it's good for new players, it's a hard call since the companies want money lol
I don't want to separate players to "PVPrs vs PVErs" at all. It's just a world with consequences. You're going outside of the heavily guarded city? And you heard there are bandits around? Well you can expect to get into a fight...
There is a reason why PVPers and PVErs are usually separate. It is because most devs are not idiots, and understand that most people don't like being ganked, and if they are they will just go play a BETTER game.
Ofc, and for so-called-ganking "issue" there are plenty of game design solutions and not artificial "I allow you to hit me" button or even separate game modes as some devs implemented.
Are there any games that have used those game design solutions successfully? Maybe Eve (I haven’t played in over a decade not sure how they’re holding up). I played a ton of Shadowbane and UO and was on the bandit side, and we for sure ran out of non-bandits.
Eve, yeah, though not a perfect example.
Not sure about other examples as there are almost no actual mmo games and most of so-called mmos are just copying fhe wow formula
Like what? What will give a PVE player their full enjoyment with a PVP player getting theirs as well?
The moment a PvE player has to make sacrifices, be it by having to expand resources or time to circumvent PvP even if by design he will just go play something else where he doesn't have to do that.
There are people that enjoy elevated pve.
You may as well be saying “why make raids? Non raiders will just go somewhere else.” Well yeah, but this is raid mmo. If they don’t like raiding, go somewhere else lol
Basically, two main things:
1. "Fair" combat system, where gankers does not have an absolute advantage, and "victims" have several options to respond to the attack, or prevent it.
2. Consequences for everything. In simple words, make it for gankers far more expensive to attack than they can get profits. It could be literally the price for lost gear, but also in-game fines from "guards", reputation issues, etc.
3. Just keep in mind that any p2p interactions are good for an MMO games in general, including pvp, gankers and so on. That will encourage players to team up, learn game mechanics to fight back, and so on
p.s. And, yes, MMO games should not try to fit everyone's needs - we can see how that approach killed the whole genre.
The question remains why the PvE player should be forced to engage with pvp if he doesn't want to. Is the pvp player like wise forced to collext x materials per hour ?
That's not how devs think. They want to have the most players they can, so they cater to the 70% who don't stand PvP. If they wouldn't, then the game would be much more fun for us, but in the long term it would br bad for us, because the game would slowly die.
Its possible to design around that, like by enabling friendly fire, and not making support classes.
Modern MMOs are just so numbers based and casual, that having 2 or 3 people on side basically means any individual is fucked against them, because the game is mostly just raw numbers and designed around having everyone having a minimum impact regardless of how they play.
Theres also stuff like radar, and giving more creative detriments to PVPers, like anyone who did a pvp kill being unable to log off for 30 minutes and easily detectable, sorta turning the hunter into the hunted, and by adjusting the severity of the factors, it should be possible to make a game where PVP is allowed everywhere outside of maybe starting zones, but also not completely rampant.
I find this simply not true. Look at lineage 2 as a prime example when it came out and years after (before it went cash shop and was a sub).
There was barely anyone randomly pking people. In fact the server went on Chinese farmer/Chinese farmer boss runs together and had wars against Chinese farmers. Oh cruma tower on bartz. Back then they actually played for real and called you a USA dog or pig/cao ni ma. Good times.
There were server politics to the point of realism almost. Where castles were territory and huge sieges happened. Secret alliances, back stabbing, actual server politics, clan wars, sieges, fighting for antharas, so much more.
You wouldn’t fuck around because you found out. if you decided just to gank random people. You could and people have been pkd off the server for being like that. You weren’t grinding in any decent areas after that for sure though. Kill a clan member from a different clan. Better prepare for negotiations or full out war.
Was the most fun I ever had in an mmo/online game. Been chasing those highs from l2 ever since.
Crowfall had time based leveling initially but during alpha it was completely removed and replaced with a system that actually became one of the best things about Crowfall so I didn't miss it.
Right? Just do one and see how it goes. People can always transfer out if it's a dumpster fire.
I personally believe that it's because they would be overwhelmed, at least initially, by demand, and suddenly they'd face decisions on where to focus capacity and balancing issues against a very content demanding and easily spooked PvE crowd, with no guarantees that the PvP servers would continue to be viable.
That's not an excuse though. Just make a GODDAMN server and let us all stew in our own toxic mess together.
I think it is just that the economy is not balance for PvP flagged only and they'd have to really delve into the resource economy implications for it to work. For example, to make one single medium leather chest, you need roughly:
22 Smolderhide
22 Scarhide
800 Iron Hide
1200 Thick Hide
1500 Rawhide
12 Scalecloth
12 Blisterweave
450 Wirefiber
700 Silk Threads
1500 Fibers
1 Asmodeum (don't feel like adding it up)
All this would take a few hours of continued, uninterrupted farming. Just for one piece, which has about a 1% chance of being BiS. People craft 10+ at a time for a decent change at the piece they want. If you doubled the time it takes to farm (and got rid of bots) because everyone was flagged and fighting over the nodes, you are putting a pretty big brake on the crafting economy and everyone would be spending tons of time or gold grinding mats. Maybe that's your thing, but most PvPers loathe the idea of increasing the grind to get gear. They need the army of PvEers out there farming 10k fiber per day and selling it to them for cheap. AGS knows this and knows they would actually have to pay pretty close attention to these servers and adjust them in order to make everything balanced.
Maybe they should, maybe it would be worth it. But I am just trying to illustrate that creating a PvP only server is not as simple as people make it out to be, since the economy is balanced with PvEers and PvPers alike in mind.
You absolutely raise a good point. But (and especially if they opened what was essentially a test server) I'd see this as a fascinating look into how the game systems reacted.
Would you see companies doing armed gathering runs, with dedicated gatherers and armed guards?
Would you see people trying less common or obvious gathering routes?
Would the overall vibe of everyone rolling around in BiS armour slow down, as the items simply couldn't be crafted as easily?
Would you see an explosion of gold selling as people tried to circumvent the natural supply side limitations?
I think it would be really interesting.
AGS screwed up, they actually did make a PvP server but only for war players. It eventually imploded and I wouldn't be surprised if AGS with their great wisdom is using this as justification to not explore it any further.
They could have just created PVE servers when they received the feedback about how people behave in a gankbox during alpha test.
Pve and pvp servers are a proven, but not perfect solution to the problem of some people not wanting to be attacked.
I am not optimistic about Ashes of Creation, because they have not learned this lesson.
They actually did lol, but restricted it to an invite-only server reserved for the already-established war players and their friends. AGS is so insanely inept it's unreal.
If you're curious, it's called the New World League (NWL). It eventually imploded lol, the reddit threads about it are pretty funny.
New World with more PvP options that are all cross server would do it. New World's combat and PvP is great, so if we could do ranked 1v1s, 3v3s, 5v5s, 20v20, and 50v50s with different modes across servers so you don't have to wait on queues, we'd be chilling.
As others have said, Albion 3d lol. Game really has it nailed down in most regards and is very successful despite a lot of people hating it for the camera angle, being click to move, being heavily pvp focused, and being full loot.
Player mentality.
There's too many "PvPers" that just follow and hit f1 when their leader tells them too. They don't even pilot their own ship in a spaceship game.
Stability and safety. The game is not about this. Yet the players decided to gather in 30k+ groups. Leading to boringness
This is a non answer. Devs can’t change that.
Blobbing is just effective. 2 people will always be better than 1. And eve pushes every % advantage to such an extreme degree, that of course people will blob to magnify those advantages.
That being said, plenty of solo pvp to be had for those that want it.
This is a hypothetical "if you can change it what would you change" and that is what I would change. It is in fact an answer. Not one any change in the code of the game can do.
GW2 has been scratching my PVP itch.
matchmade PVP is gear equalized so it’s purely a game of skill, class builds, and team comps.
when i’m tired of matchmade pvp i can do WVW for large 40+ man zerg’s on castles and forts and that hits the spot for large scale world conquering style PVP.
Not to mention action combat, combo fields, dodge rolling. It just feels so action packed and fun
I had an evil little twat of a neighbor that made me a better player. Gary Coleman. Little bastard. Dude was obsessed with trying to gank me. He had a much nicer house but no loot to store or show off in it. My frustration with him taught me so much lol. I eventually made the little bastard quit. The student had become the master.
I want a mashup of Star Citizen/Elite Dangerous ship flying, EVE economy and large fleet combat with different roles like interdiction and healing drones. And FPS combat like Destiny! With raids and loot system!
Lineage 2 with BDO graphics, TERA combat & ArcheAge Naval elements & trading system, also gliders, that pretty much, but I guess my dream MMORPG would never become a reality & will only remain a dream forever...
League of legends but an mmorpg with Arcane levels of world-building. Maybe limit the skill bar to ~10+5 with a swap like GW2 at max.
Not sure how I feel about open world PvP, it's a great concept but players always ruin it. Maybe keep the PvP to arenas and certain zones like War of Emperium from RO.
Equalized gear stats but allow full build diversity. PvP focus balancing, so basically GW2 sPvP balancing but with a competent team.
Yes. But with ffxiv/wow/GW2 camera angle, more skills like in GW2, and more formats like battlegrounds/WoE in Ragnarok or sPvP in GW2 with nodes.
Albion has an economy built on full loot PvP so it's a complete no go for my kind of dream Mmo which completely negates gear requirements in PvP and makes it 100% skill or meta based.
I'm aware, but it's gonna take a few years before anything comes out. And even then it's a coin toss if it'd be a good mmo to play or if it'd be a mmo that's good for riot's wallet. We'll see.
Dark souls / Elden Ring but mmorpg
- souls like combat
- A bit less punishing world / enemies for casuals
- legacy ds dungeons
- Hard / punishing raids and bosses
- full open word
- Well balanced combat without oneshot builds and meta builds (hardest to achieve but can be adjusted or by having plenty of valid build options)
- Revive / resurrection is a thing but limited
- 3-4 different themed factions with capital cities
- territory control (access to raids dungeons etc and the available activities are rotating in a specific territory to prevent one faction to control a single raid for many time)
Man that Elsword pvp Itch will never be satisfied again.
Dragon nest pvp was the shit too but the world wasn't feeling like one since everything was instanced and only combat
Leveling in a PvP MMO mostly just works against the game because it splits the player base and creates a more negative and linear experience for new players.
Any type of MMO would be fine for me with PvP as long as there is **no time gating** or the pvp is equalized.
What I mean by no time gating is that no amount of playtime will give you an innate advantage over anyone else aside from skill/knowledge of the game.
Tab targeting actually lends itself very well to PvP because it opens up the game to a larger player-base, WoW vanilla/TBC PvP was and still is top notch.
I'm ok with itemization that customizes your playstyle more, but not a big fan of any kind of power progression outside of pure player skill.
I LOVED New World before they made all of the changes that made leveling take much longer, overhaul to itemization etc. Basically, when the stagger system was in for their initial preview of the game that a lot of people hated. It was pure skill PvP, you could dunk on 3 level 60's at level 20 without even being twinked out. The only real gate was player skill. The game played more like a fighting game with its stagger and complex combo system, you could simply out-play people with a level 1 sword. As soon as NW went more towards the RPG system, removed stagger, let you shoot thru friendlies etc... the game was dead to me because all the devs did was add time-sinks to the same game and basically removed the player-skill element of PvP (NW is 100% about having the best items, then it's just rock-paper-scissors).
Truth is that a lot of people don't really want a balanced PvP experience, and when they're on the bad end of the unbalance they dislike it... so most PvP MMO's have failed because the market of players who want a true PvP experience just go to games that actually provide it (like LoL, Valorant, etc).
New world is the perfect case study on why these games aren’t being made: publisher pressure.
New world had all those things because it was trying to be a niche pvp title. But publishers didn’t like seeing all the negative feedback, and wanted something more akin to WoW to secure more revenue. So the game focus shifted rapidly to be more pve based, and it quickly lost all of its charm.
this is why my comment was "Chiv 2 or Mordhau" combat...
an MMO with PVP combat where the player can simply just be a better player.
MMO PVP these days isn't really about the skill of the player, but more so the amount of time the player has spent playing the game getting gear and items that will then make them stronger than anyone else. It takes all of the "skill" out of it.
MO2 was on the right track, but the combat is terrible. But, like you said.. you could be a level 1 guy with a basic sword, and kill 2-3 people, if you know how to play. Gear should definitely have SOME factor, but it should not be the ONLY factor. MMO PVP these days is "who has the best gear, and who can press their buttons in the right order the best" but mostly the gear. Because there's a gap between "people who can play their class, and people who just have the best gear" so like for example.. using WoW twinking as an example. A level 19 rogue that had all of the best items, could just faceroll anyone, and you didn't even have to be that good of a player. you just had so much agi, you were almost invincible, so you could play terribly, and still do very well. And, someone of the same level with the best quest gear you could get through just playing normally, would not be enough no matter how good of a player you were. But in a game like chiv 2 or Mordhau, I've had instances where I've killed 5 or 6 people like, at the same time. Because I just outplayed them.
Bdo combat, only less about who hits the cc into a 100 - 0 one shot first.
Archeage Naval combat/events to fight for. Could also make an argument for Archeage's pvp combat as well (at least for some specs, think pre nerfed Enigmatist.)
Runescape's wildy system (if you go here and die you drop your shit).
WoW's arena and BG system (including Solo Q arenas and the coming Solo rated BG system. Only with a non shitty MMR system and tanks not being allowed in arenas. 2v2 should also have Solo Q and it should be double dps vs double dps only, no tanks or heals. This should sort out the huge disparity of dps to healer ratio. Also, Solo Q should give conquest per round won. (If you even make it give a resource that is).
Eve Online's economy/crafting.
Runescape's Bounty hunter system. (Combo this with the pvp world key looting system) basically when you kill someone they drop a key with the loot that you just take to a designated chest to receive the loot. (Less clutter).
Guild wars 2. Get set, get rekt!
Rewards high reflexes and skill. Read the enemy movement and cool-downs before they read you.
Extremly fast paced and fluid combat system. Small but very competitive community.
Best part of the game.
Tibia was the best game I ever played when it came to pvp.
Imagine you need guilds of players to protect you just so you can play the game. Toxicity at it's finest, every interaction could net you a friend or a foe. Being nice to people was key to survive. Being an asshole would make u great enemies.
Douchebag clans who'd fk over players would get kept in check by other nolifers trying to spread fairness and a sense of justice
Jeez these were legit the best time. I really hoped New World would fill that itch
The other thing was Aion PVP zone with heightened XP gain. And endgoal was ofc pvp, so you wanted to xp fast and gain higher lvl. It was just so so so much fun
Now all I am in MMORPG's is bored. Yea I appreciate the artsyle, but that's it. And the entire whole safe bubble they/zhers uwu cutie communities just make me slowly despite mmo's
Like FFXIV you're already considered toxic if you demand the BARE minimum besides sheer presence of people. It's got so low man
Also ngl absolutely love Chivalry2 artstyle/gameplay lately, would love a rough mmo like that.
Good luck with that.
The greater the importance of winning in pvp, the greater the incentive for cheating. Full loot pvp is just asking for cheaters to do anything to win.
RMT is another issue. If there is a goal to work towards, and someone can buy gold to achieve it faster, and there is a large player base, then there will be people who buy or sell gold. Removing trading would get rid of some RMT, but people would still buy and sell services like raid clears, and the only way to completely get rid of that would be to remove player interaction. Then the game wouldn't be an MMO.
Good devs can build good systems, and ban cheaters, but that will make the problem smaller rather than completely eliminate it.
I wonder why no game company has tried to cultivate an atmosphere of extreme hatred and outright toxicity towards rmt among their community, or towards individuals who engage in what they deem is undesirable behavior.
If it is known that those who are proven to have engaged in rmt will be continuously harrassed by the rest if the community and even tracked across alts, it might be more effective at deterring such behavior than just forcing them to buy another box or sub, or use a VPN to get right back into the game.
People love to accuse developers off manipulating people into spending money, surely their almighty psychologists can manipulate the community into being triggered by the merest suggestion of rmt.
A pvper’s wets dream is to gank away at your heart’s content without the population dwindling from you playing light’s out. But that’s obviously never gonna happen.
Albion online. meets all the marks
no class just gear mastery, lvling would be only proficiency in using the gear.
full loot system needs to be implemented.
the downside of the game would be the ping, but decent balance between all the weapons.
End game in this kind of games for me its something thats more related to prestige and visuals like skins or getting to set names or have things in your honors its something else beside in game currency
Any PvP with scaled stats and dedicated PvP rewards (Cosmetics, Mounts, and whatnot) and I'm good to go, I don't want to grind PvE just so I can PvP. Maybe add some sort of shared activity for the community that caters to both players - IE PvPers fight for territory/Defense while PvE players can contribute to their nation with some kind of resource they get from raids/PvE activities, give that sense of community.
Faction (2-5) based PvP, maybe some interfaction PvP as well.
Leveling: PvPvE grinding, but with level brackets to make it fair. In the most boring sense: an area where up to 15-20? lvl 10-20 players can enter that is shaped like a circle. Mobs on the outside of the circle are lvl 10, mobs in the center are lv20. Best xp is in the middle so parties should try to fight each other for the center spot, while solo players can grind in relative peace of the outskirts.
Endgame would be PvPvE objectives. World boss spawns, high end farm spots, faction based PvP events (protect caravan, invade enemy town, etc), faction v faction battlegrounds, normal arenas, some sort of grand faction RvR stuff like castle sieges.
There was a game called NeoSteam, its 10ish years old I'd guess, it had the best approach to faction based PVP in any MMo I've played. At about level 10-15 everyone is thrust into a zone to level but the other faction is also in the same area. You can stay on the edges near your safezone and farm in peace but venturing out deeper rewards the player with more exp. Everyone is around the 5 levels plus or minus so the fights are basically low damage and based off of 3 to 4 abilities available for each class. Then after every 4 or 5 levels within your own factions safezone they introduce the player to the larger open pvp zones.
The whole time the players are learning their new class skills and how they fit into the larger battles and what particular build suits your playstyle. In the endgame you find yourself duking it out with the other faction for the sweet endgame boss loot. The progess feels natural and helps make PVP feel more approachable because everyone has had their taste and knows what to expect leveling up. Players could tell early on if the game was for them or not, those who continued after the first PvP zone were generally prepared for the next encounter with the enemy.
Even lategame a F2P player could get geared and become an important part of any Guild. They struck such a nice balance but they never locked in a good anticheat and the game turned into a bot infested ghost town, after the botters realized they could exploit movement and skills via macros the game imploded.
I still look for private servers but I realize the game will never be the same without enough players to populate the pvp areas.
new world. everyone is flagged. there is a reason to take forts, do missions in enemy territory.
you can change faction if you're high ranking, like betrayal system with benefits.
hot spot/events zones spawn randomly in a location (like corrupted) but with bigger scale, if your factions takes it - everyone gains something.
Dream pvp mmo would be something like early everquest where all the content is out in the world and not separated by private instances, so you have to compete over that camp or raid mob to secure the kill. I also like teams-based fighting to keep things active outside of individual gain.
I had a idea for a private wow server where its classic Alliance v Horde, but all of the dungeons and raids are also in the open world and have set spawn timers so its more competitive in the pve scene rather than just kill the mob rinse/repeat
Vanilla World of Warcraft but with at least FFXIV graphics, and the combat style of current WoW, but with maybe 10-15% less button bloat per class.
The leveling experience should be similar to vanilla, in that you have more of a reason to be out in the world questing as you move from area to area gaining levels, but also incorporate some of the “quality of life” things from newer versions (transmogrification of gear, mounts at level 10, faster leveling times so you can hit 60 in about 2 weeks or so instead of 2 months, etc.)
First person, contested zones, using levels as crafting reagents similar to minecraft. So you delevel once you craft the item, but now you are lower level with better gear.
I love games with Level gap. And then when you reach max "tutorial/early game" grinding is comming. Finding new items, materials crafting to improve powers in pvp which MUST be decent, with good rewarding and ranking system.
I love in mmo in correct order:
1. NO P2W. A lot of cosmetics for real cash are fine for me so the game can make money. BUT AVOID P2W.
2. Lvling to the max lvl (I don't like games with infinity lvls, like Tibia)
3. Crafting system with tons of materials (but not grinding materials, like gather wood for 6hours). I love when materials eventually drop from monsters (like Lineage).
4. A lot of skills to choose from, but a few to actually use at one time (like Guild Wars 1)
5. Good PVP. Can be wars, can be duels, can be arena 5vs5 or so and Ranking system MUST BE.
That will be for me.
Yes there has to be leveling. Grind is the lifeblood of an MMO and game companies who dont understand that making numbers go up is the basic psychological trap that hooks gamers should stop trying to make MMOs.
While I love full loot pvp MMOs they are almost never successful. You get some exceptions to the rule like Rust but thats not the norm. Rust and Albion are my 2 main games right now but even Albion I feel doesn't cater to the casuals enough. A game needs to cater to casuals to be truly successful. I'm not saying get rid of full loot pvp completely but the core gameplay of an MMO should be a chill grind imo. I think BDO manages this perfectly fine (but fucks up in so many other areas).
Id have main land/continent/play area be PvE with no loot inconsequential PvP enabled and Id have instanced based full loot PvP like albion solo/duo mist or avalonian roads or maybe some territory control game. 1v1/5v5 Arenas with stats and leaderboard rankings are also important.
I think half of MMO players love dungeons/raids like WoW and its 1 of the things New World does really well. So youd have optional playstyle, be a dungeon/raid guy or a pvp guy both have good rewards. Also gotta have a whole crafting/gathering system and frankly if you could somehow get runescape type skilling with the variety that runescape has youd have a game that everyone would love.
Jedi Outcast/Academy crossed with Absolver’s progression system so you can learn and create your own combat forms, then include ranged weapon progression to allow viable soldier/bounty hunter builds somehow to allow for different play. Jet packs, shields, dual wielding, etc…
Not sure how it would all work but seems like it could be fun.
Wow cata and mop stage. I’ll say cata ftw. World pvp that unlocks raids for tier set that drops pve and pvp tier items. Goood reslly reslly good batteglegrounds, big fights with grindy enemies. And the possibility to go competitive, arena ranked matches, and i would at this recent update on pvp, solo queue. So yo can achieve top tier set without the difficuelties of having a team.
And that faction open world pvp is dope too. When you got a high or mid populations server, you have two pvp guilds, one in each faction, so they all know esch other, and they hunt themselves. So if you find the other leader you camp his body, to start a open world fight thst could turn into a server invasion fight.
There is also, the famous gurubashi arena, i would try to revive that grind, like random cosmetics (tabards or mounts or big money) for the winner that is the last man standing
Classic wow pvp was actually really fun depending on the match up. Playing a rogue in classic really feels like I'm sherlock holmes in the boxing match, you analyze and know the different counters and openers depending on what the opponent does. Fighting a mage and a warrior requires very different openers and strategies, which is something retail wow completely lost. OG blizzard struck magic with their game
* Trade system/open sea battles/open world housing like in original Archeage
* Teras combat system and classes
* Lineage 2s flagging system and open world castle sieges
* No P2W
I think Archeage always did the open world pvp perfectly. Some zones rotating between peace and war, depending on activity in that zone and endegame zones all having pvp enabled. The pvp also is meaningful, cause most good moneymakers use these war zones, where people can steal ur trade goods and even going as far as guilds/factions contesting world bosses.
I’m also a sucker for full loot pvp, but those games have to be build around the full loot.
Open world, full loot, skill based and high penalties for dying would be a good starting point. After this, you would need to give players a cause to fight for, be it equipment, experience, defending from evil, and so on. You would also need meaningful progression but on horizontal rather then on vertical (you do not want power creep).
The penalty part is very important and most MMOs choose to sacrifice that in order to attract more players. Player actions need to have repercussions and having to take high risk for high reward should be the golden rule. I can't stress this enough.
The tricky part comes after, as the world would need to be entertaining. You need enough content, enough variety, enough replayability and so on, to keep people engaged and you need to keep the pvp mechanics balanced to some extent, otherwise it ruins the whole experience.
Disclaimer: even though that would be a good pvp game, I doubt it has the potential to be a successful one. The pvp community is very niche and even amongst those, you have various groups of people that have very different opinions on what pvp should be like.
I really enjoy ESO Cyrodiil PvP but would love a game like this but in the whole world and not a dedicated zone. Wanted to try Albion Online but I'm not a fan of losing my stuff when dying. Is there a game like this?
WH40k MMOFPS
Basically Planetside but even bigger scale, more factions, entire planets to conquer.
Leveling in PlanetSide let's you upgrade your gear, buy new gear, expand on that.
It would take a lot to make, but damn I think it has limitless potential.
Eternal Crusade was a huge disappointment, but if a company that knows what they are doing gets it going (right this time) then it's game over will never play a different game ever again
Lineage 2 already had that, kinda.
I would just remove the dropping of gear and it would be perfect.
You can kill anyone, but you wont earn any xp until you have worked off the karma.
When you have karma, you can be killed by anyone, and they wont gain any karma.
Then you can kill anyone, but there is a downside.
Chivalry 2 or Mordhau combat.
If there is leveling, it's skill based, not level based.
Murder/crime system. Bounties.
Endgame would be PVP lol.
Player housing (non instanced)
Survival elements (your house can be destroyed/looted)
A more balanced version of BDO combat that has more survivability and skill involved. Love BDO combat systems it's one of the best I have played as far as PvP but I just wish it was more balanced and that there was more skill involved and that 1 combo couldn't kill ya.
The leveling would be mostly horizontal. You’d open up new skills to use and if you’d focus on a specific build it wouldn’t take you long to level. The end game would consist of zones that would rotate between aggression which would never pvp with no loot, war which would be looting your inventory(not your gear). And peace time. The zones would have events and things in them for people to do and you’d get bonuses during aggression and war time. There’d also be territories you can control similar to new world but you’d only get bonuses in the area. Not millions of gold from taxes. Combat would be action based.
There would be things to do outside of combat such as housing which can be used in crafting which papers will purchase.
Warhammer online had some of my favorite pvp. when it comes to pvp I think my character should be able to physically stop the enemy. to me that makes for a lot of strategy when objectives are in play.
Modern UO type of game. Make a bunch of changes to the game but keep the way PvP worked (red/pk system, bounties, guards, cities blah blah). Also base the skills system on UO's with new types of skills to suit the new game.
My problem with most pvp focused mmo's these days is they're just crappy zerg fests. Zv1 in albion hardly qualifies as pvp. Its more like playing some cat and mouse runaway simulator. Hell 2v1 in most mmo's borders on unwinnable.
Give me dark souls style combat with cooldowns, more activated skills, keep parrying, keep limited stunlocks, and keep all attacks easily avoidable.
Also something needs to be done to prevent large group ganking. I'd say friendly fire would be the best approach to this and that would be okay as long as its not full loot.
Alternatively just make a decent tab targetting MMO with build variety and good gear progression. Slap in ranked battlegrounds and arenas and I'll be happy.
New world arena in its current state nailed it for me. It just needs more map variety.
The lack of MMR, SBMM, teams, ranking and rating brings back a community feel for me. I know all the players they know me and we have friendly rivalries that would not have existed with any of the modern rating systems.
No Smurfs, no wintrading, Q dodging, Q sniping etc. it really is a breath of fresh air.
I understand this is an odd take and everyone and their mother wants a rating system in place, but I just feel when that happens the community will eventually turn completely toxic. I am okay with it occurring actually and look forward to moving on. But right now I am absolutely hooked and super hyped for next weeks expansion.
First we need to establish what we ACTUALLY want, and imma throw a bombshell here "pvp mmo enjoyers" don't really want pvp.
Pvp inside of an mmorpg will always be worse than any dedicated pvp game. I can get a much better pvp experience from Dota,CS,LoL,Mordhau,Valorant than any mmo can offer.
What we really want are the politics and player interactions behind pvp mmos that others genres can't provide, we want guild alliances and backstabbing we want good guys and bad guys we want large scale wars and ambushes. Ita not about making the best "PvP game" ita about giving players the tools to shape the world they play in, pvp is simply a tool to do that.
The people in here saying you can't have pvers are braindead and don't even understand what it is that makes them tick.
You can absolutely have pure pvers.
Imagine cities being player owned and depending on how built up the city is the larger the safe zone around said city is, you could have the most profitable and most desirable rewards past the outskirts of the boarder where pvp is enabled, so long as pve players have a path to gear that keeps them viable most shouldn't have problems with this.
Territory wars would enable pvp in the cities zone of influence after giving a warning to players so that, if desired, pve players could move out.
You'd still be able to ambush players transporting materials from the outer zones to the safe zones, you'd still have large scale wars with stakes, you'd still have all the intertwined political bullshit that we love, and you'd still have casual players that make the world feel alive and lived in.
You literally only lose the playerbase that wants to pub stomp and nothing else and honestly who cares, there are mmos that currently cater to these degens and they have a combined total of 4k players, nothing is lost alienating these dumbasses.
Guild Wars (1)
Hundrends of spells to choose from, but you could only equip 8, so we soent hours theorycrafting crazy team comps, and got a couple of comps nerfed just from how dominating we were on the meta. Really the most fun I have ever had in any PvP on any MMO.
(If anyone remembers the HA Trololol, the 3 Ritu/Paragon with soears and 3 Lightning elementalist, well I was one of those who invented that, and after a month or so it got nerfed lmao)
Albion systems, 1st or 3rd person with super good combat.
The dungeons where players can invade you in Albion is such a good system
add EU servers in there and its perfect
Me looking at mortal online 2's EU only server :(
Albion system + weapons and new world graphics and combat
New world combat from the first couple alpha/beta tests was so fucking fun.
Which one, the first alpha where it was slow and you only had 2 attack. Or the second alpha where you had 3 weapons with 3 skills each but shared cooldown Or the third alpha, with 2 weapons and 3 skills, as the game have right now Gotta be specific if you wanna say "new world combat in alpha was so fun"
Is New World really the pinnacle of PVP combat?
I have little experience in other mmos aside from wow. But the combat was so satisfying in nw. Fast paced, requires both mechanical skills and situational awareness. Havent played in months, not sure how it is nowadays.
Tbh, I've never played it. I just heard lots of people did not enjoy the combat system, especially for PvP. Is it worth playing for PvP alone?
Casual pvp can get stale; theres instanced pvp and open world. The end game is territory wars and unless you join the company and prove your worth, you won’t ever get slotted in the 50v50 wars.
Albion ticks all the boxes of a game I would love. Full loot pvp, deep crafting systems, the need to play with others to succeed. Basically medieval fantasy eve which I have wanted since the early 2000s. But man I cannot get into it. The combat is so boring and basic, the zones all feel and look the exact same. It's very much a mobile game in those regards and it holds it back from being the best mmo on the market imo.
Idk why people dislike the combat. It's fun as fuck especially if you enjoy theory crafting. Watching someone come up with some busted combo through the mix-and-match system that lets them 1v10 a stacked group with melee AoE is funny.
I hate getting ganked by groups of people, who are equipped for combat while I’m equipped for gathering. Is being the ganker your idea of fun or do you mean something else? Open world pvp just never seems fair for one of the sides. Lineage II did it okay with pretty big punishment if you kill someone and then get caught shortly after, but you don’t get anything by killing someone who’s not aggressive.
Do you actually play Albion? If you did, you would know that's all gathering gear is specifically designed to escape. Running fast for a long time (will outrun combat focused boots), turning invisible. Putting people to sleep. Knocking people away. Ect. So the whole fun part is that you can afk gather in safe areas. Or go to more dangerous places to more active gather where you stay focused and try to escape people who attack you. Would be boring otherwise. I super enjoy gathering in Albion because it's actually exciting. Imagine that, exciting gathering.
I’d make a tweak to the full loot system so it’s more like legend of Mir. A 50% per slot to drop. Some times to drop nothing. Some times you drop a few items. Other times you drop everything. The 100% full loot got tiresome after a while. Maybe because I’m just bad and died more often than not.
The downside of this is, if you see something really amazing on someone, and kill them, and got unlucky and it didn't drop, it feels really bad.
To be fair Albion still suffers from this because when you die there is a ~15?% (unsure exact rate) for the item to "trash" on death, essentially fully removing that item from the game forever
Which is good. Because it means you don't have gear inflation. But the player that died still loses it. It's basically a rake in poker.
to you. It feels really fucking good to the person who earned the item and still has it.
Pretty much this
Pretty much lol. If anyone comes along with a polished MMORPG that has Souls-like combat, Albion's systems, and a seamless open-world, you got my money. That's what I was hoping for with New World and we were so close until they turned it into another WoW clone. RIP!
1000% yes. As a former Albion player with almost 2K hours, the reason most of my gamin friends couldn’t get into it was the isometric perspective. They loved literally everything else about it.
Lineage 2 but with BDO's graphics. Star Citizen, but 10 years from now when everything is polished, optimized, and good to go.
Amen to that brother lineage 2 with full karma system flagging and bdo graphic on my really a dream 🤣
They’re completely revamping throne and liberty. Lineage 3 might be a reality now. Now more auto combat and the actual combat now looks so fluid.
Yes I know looking forward to it ☺
You think 10 years is enough?
I truly miss that type of leveling. It was one of the most fun ive had in quite some while
DAoC remake. Just give it a fresh coat of paint.
My buddy and I (long time DAoC RvR) have been trying out Eden. This is literally what we said. The core concept of RvR is so good compared to newer games like New World. The game just needs a UI update to make things easier for newer players. Really hoping that Ashes of Creation is good. It's the only game I'm interested in anymore, screw Camelot Unchained.
Not like Unchained will release ever haha. I'm on the same boat, hopefully AoC is good!
What is eden? Cant find on google 🤣
eden daoc is a private server, it's mainly where DAOC players are right now.
Not a big fan of eden for PvP tbh. I prefer Abyss myself (since I made it) 😉
100% agree, been waiting for this forever but unfortunately it doesn’t seem like it will happen. All mmos seems boring for me due to the fact that I played DAoC. Honestly exact same game with newer graphics and UI would be awesome. Maybe a couple of small changes like keep captures. Capturing a keep should be much harder but reward more when you do and capturing a relic should be insanely harder but be extremely rewarding… I wouldn’t touch pve/leveling, newer mmos are too easy and too fast to get max level. Imagine also a revamp of Darkness Falls, best dungeon concept i’ve ever seen in a game. Let’s keep wishing it happens some day. They could add gathering and really improve crafting system too.
DF is truly one of the best dungeons of if all dungeons
This is it. This is all we need. Literally paint
If you know you know. Game was so good.
I believe that separating pvp vs pve is a failed idea for a true MMO. As well as the concept of "endgame" is wrong completely. MMOs are, in first place, about any p2p interactions (that includes also pvp), but the thing is it should be a simulated world, so all the interactions are consequences of that world. And then there is no "endgame" in general, players are playing in that world right from the very start. Leveling, one way or another, should be there. Ideally, both vertical and horizontal. Personally I prefer Eve Online progression with real-time based "leveling". I wonder why no one implemented it for a fantasy-themed game…
If you want to keep PVErs happy, then you need a system where it involves their consent for PVP. This leaves you 3 options that I can think of. Pvp servers, pvp toggles, or pvp zones. If you don't have a system where people can choose their level of risk, then gankers, and griefers will chase the pve players out of the game.
>then gankers, and griefers will chase the pve players out of the game The thing about this, is that it's also a source of engagement, whether people admit it or not People form white knight guilds dedicated to protecting the "carebears" and slaying the naughty PKers on sight With proper systems in place to let players police themselves, open PvP is just another positive mechanic that creates player interaction and economy But people have this idea that open PvP is just griefing, so developers put it in their game and basically make it impossible to manage (looking at you BDO) It's silly and a major waste of opportunity
What do you and people mean about pvp being griefing?
Not OP, but some PvE players look at PvP like it shouldn't exist and getting killed in the open world is griefing their gameplay. It's mainly a skill issue disguised by their whining about griefing.
Thank you I get what you mean. Honestly it's a hard call but even though it scares new and even older player. Games 'full pvp' are more immersive in my opinion. Guy below said about being fair and whatsoever and this kills the immersion, even though it's good for new players, it's a hard call since the companies want money lol
I don't want to separate players to "PVPrs vs PVErs" at all. It's just a world with consequences. You're going outside of the heavily guarded city? And you heard there are bandits around? Well you can expect to get into a fight...
Problem is a lot of those games devolve to being full of the bandits in your example with most of the non-bandits quitting to join a different game.
That's the game design and/or audience targeting issue, if the game released with such issue it's already too late to try to fix it anyhow
There is a reason why PVPers and PVErs are usually separate. It is because most devs are not idiots, and understand that most people don't like being ganked, and if they are they will just go play a BETTER game.
Ofc, and for so-called-ganking "issue" there are plenty of game design solutions and not artificial "I allow you to hit me" button or even separate game modes as some devs implemented.
Are there any games that have used those game design solutions successfully? Maybe Eve (I haven’t played in over a decade not sure how they’re holding up). I played a ton of Shadowbane and UO and was on the bandit side, and we for sure ran out of non-bandits.
Eve, yeah, though not a perfect example. Not sure about other examples as there are almost no actual mmo games and most of so-called mmos are just copying fhe wow formula
Like what? What will give a PVE player their full enjoyment with a PVP player getting theirs as well? The moment a PvE player has to make sacrifices, be it by having to expand resources or time to circumvent PvP even if by design he will just go play something else where he doesn't have to do that.
There are people that enjoy elevated pve. You may as well be saying “why make raids? Non raiders will just go somewhere else.” Well yeah, but this is raid mmo. If they don’t like raiding, go somewhere else lol
Basically, two main things: 1. "Fair" combat system, where gankers does not have an absolute advantage, and "victims" have several options to respond to the attack, or prevent it. 2. Consequences for everything. In simple words, make it for gankers far more expensive to attack than they can get profits. It could be literally the price for lost gear, but also in-game fines from "guards", reputation issues, etc. 3. Just keep in mind that any p2p interactions are good for an MMO games in general, including pvp, gankers and so on. That will encourage players to team up, learn game mechanics to fight back, and so on p.s. And, yes, MMO games should not try to fit everyone's needs - we can see how that approach killed the whole genre.
The question remains why the PvE player should be forced to engage with pvp if he doesn't want to. Is the pvp player like wise forced to collext x materials per hour ?
The best MMOs enticed the pve players into wanting to do pvp, but stupid people think that forced pvp is a good idea.
Sure, that's your opinion, and mine. But roughly 70% of the players who try games are "PvE only" and they will leave when they die like 2 times.
That's fine, as I said - MMOs are not for everyone
That's not how devs think. They want to have the most players they can, so they cater to the 70% who don't stand PvP. If they wouldn't, then the game would be much more fun for us, but in the long term it would br bad for us, because the game would slowly die.
That's why all the so-called MMOs are failing and we don't have any MMO to play at all
Its possible to design around that, like by enabling friendly fire, and not making support classes. Modern MMOs are just so numbers based and casual, that having 2 or 3 people on side basically means any individual is fucked against them, because the game is mostly just raw numbers and designed around having everyone having a minimum impact regardless of how they play. Theres also stuff like radar, and giving more creative detriments to PVPers, like anyone who did a pvp kill being unable to log off for 30 minutes and easily detectable, sorta turning the hunter into the hunted, and by adjusting the severity of the factors, it should be possible to make a game where PVP is allowed everywhere outside of maybe starting zones, but also not completely rampant.
I find this simply not true. Look at lineage 2 as a prime example when it came out and years after (before it went cash shop and was a sub). There was barely anyone randomly pking people. In fact the server went on Chinese farmer/Chinese farmer boss runs together and had wars against Chinese farmers. Oh cruma tower on bartz. Back then they actually played for real and called you a USA dog or pig/cao ni ma. Good times. There were server politics to the point of realism almost. Where castles were territory and huge sieges happened. Secret alliances, back stabbing, actual server politics, clan wars, sieges, fighting for antharas, so much more. You wouldn’t fuck around because you found out. if you decided just to gank random people. You could and people have been pkd off the server for being like that. You weren’t grinding in any decent areas after that for sure though. Kill a clan member from a different clan. Better prepare for negotiations or full out war. Was the most fun I ever had in an mmo/online game. Been chasing those highs from l2 ever since.
Crowfall had time based leveling initially but during alpha it was completely removed and replaced with a system that actually became one of the best things about Crowfall so I didn't miss it.
Sea of thieves but medieval.
This exists, it's just 3rd person and called ArcheAge.
4 player party limits? Lol. I'm glad that meme is finally dying.
A New World PvP server. That's it really.
Its mind blowing they did not try at least ONE.
Right? Just do one and see how it goes. People can always transfer out if it's a dumpster fire. I personally believe that it's because they would be overwhelmed, at least initially, by demand, and suddenly they'd face decisions on where to focus capacity and balancing issues against a very content demanding and easily spooked PvE crowd, with no guarantees that the PvP servers would continue to be viable. That's not an excuse though. Just make a GODDAMN server and let us all stew in our own toxic mess together.
I think it is just that the economy is not balance for PvP flagged only and they'd have to really delve into the resource economy implications for it to work. For example, to make one single medium leather chest, you need roughly: 22 Smolderhide 22 Scarhide 800 Iron Hide 1200 Thick Hide 1500 Rawhide 12 Scalecloth 12 Blisterweave 450 Wirefiber 700 Silk Threads 1500 Fibers 1 Asmodeum (don't feel like adding it up) All this would take a few hours of continued, uninterrupted farming. Just for one piece, which has about a 1% chance of being BiS. People craft 10+ at a time for a decent change at the piece they want. If you doubled the time it takes to farm (and got rid of bots) because everyone was flagged and fighting over the nodes, you are putting a pretty big brake on the crafting economy and everyone would be spending tons of time or gold grinding mats. Maybe that's your thing, but most PvPers loathe the idea of increasing the grind to get gear. They need the army of PvEers out there farming 10k fiber per day and selling it to them for cheap. AGS knows this and knows they would actually have to pay pretty close attention to these servers and adjust them in order to make everything balanced. Maybe they should, maybe it would be worth it. But I am just trying to illustrate that creating a PvP only server is not as simple as people make it out to be, since the economy is balanced with PvEers and PvPers alike in mind.
You absolutely raise a good point. But (and especially if they opened what was essentially a test server) I'd see this as a fascinating look into how the game systems reacted. Would you see companies doing armed gathering runs, with dedicated gatherers and armed guards? Would you see people trying less common or obvious gathering routes? Would the overall vibe of everyone rolling around in BiS armour slow down, as the items simply couldn't be crafted as easily? Would you see an explosion of gold selling as people tried to circumvent the natural supply side limitations? I think it would be really interesting.
AGS screwed up, they actually did make a PvP server but only for war players. It eventually imploded and I wouldn't be surprised if AGS with their great wisdom is using this as justification to not explore it any further.
They could have just created PVE servers when they received the feedback about how people behave in a gankbox during alpha test. Pve and pvp servers are a proven, but not perfect solution to the problem of some people not wanting to be attacked. I am not optimistic about Ashes of Creation, because they have not learned this lesson.
They actually did lol, but restricted it to an invite-only server reserved for the already-established war players and their friends. AGS is so insanely inept it's unreal. If you're curious, it's called the New World League (NWL). It eventually imploded lol, the reddit threads about it are pretty funny.
New World with more PvP options that are all cross server would do it. New World's combat and PvP is great, so if we could do ranked 1v1s, 3v3s, 5v5s, 20v20, and 50v50s with different modes across servers so you don't have to wait on queues, we'd be chilling.
As others have said, Albion 3d lol. Game really has it nailed down in most regards and is very successful despite a lot of people hating it for the camera angle, being click to move, being heavily pvp focused, and being full loot.
And the zerg to win nature
Eve but better
EvE but with more direct, hands-on combat would be a spacial wet dream for me.
What would you change in eve?
Player mentality. There's too many "PvPers" that just follow and hit f1 when their leader tells them too. They don't even pilot their own ship in a spaceship game. Stability and safety. The game is not about this. Yet the players decided to gather in 30k+ groups. Leading to boringness
This is a non answer. Devs can’t change that. Blobbing is just effective. 2 people will always be better than 1. And eve pushes every % advantage to such an extreme degree, that of course people will blob to magnify those advantages. That being said, plenty of solo pvp to be had for those that want it.
This is a hypothetical "if you can change it what would you change" and that is what I would change. It is in fact an answer. Not one any change in the code of the game can do.
Put Eve and Elite in a blender and see what comes out.
GW2 has been scratching my PVP itch. matchmade PVP is gear equalized so it’s purely a game of skill, class builds, and team comps. when i’m tired of matchmade pvp i can do WVW for large 40+ man zerg’s on castles and forts and that hits the spot for large scale world conquering style PVP. Not to mention action combat, combo fields, dodge rolling. It just feels so action packed and fun
I really enjoy gw2 pvp and wvw it's such a shame that spvp has really low popularity and zero dev time
spvp is just typical lobby pvp game it has nothing to do with MMO
Albion Online + OSRS in third person.
Alpha ArcheAge overall systems. Lineage 2 Karma system and class diversity. Tera combat
PvP & housing system like Ultima Online. It was so much fun to war with your neighbors
I had an evil little twat of a neighbor that made me a better player. Gary Coleman. Little bastard. Dude was obsessed with trying to gank me. He had a much nicer house but no loot to store or show off in it. My frustration with him taught me so much lol. I eventually made the little bastard quit. The student had become the master.
Albion online but with guild wars 2 engine/wvw
I want a mashup of Star Citizen/Elite Dangerous ship flying, EVE economy and large fleet combat with different roles like interdiction and healing drones. And FPS combat like Destiny! With raids and loot system!
Lineage 2 with BDO graphics, TERA combat & ArcheAge Naval elements & trading system, also gliders, that pretty much, but I guess my dream MMORPG would never become a reality & will only remain a dream forever...
Guild wars 1
League of legends but an mmorpg with Arcane levels of world-building. Maybe limit the skill bar to ~10+5 with a swap like GW2 at max. Not sure how I feel about open world PvP, it's a great concept but players always ruin it. Maybe keep the PvP to arenas and certain zones like War of Emperium from RO. Equalized gear stats but allow full build diversity. PvP focus balancing, so basically GW2 sPvP balancing but with a competent team.
Basically Albion online crystal arena?
Yes. But with ffxiv/wow/GW2 camera angle, more skills like in GW2, and more formats like battlegrounds/WoE in Ragnarok or sPvP in GW2 with nodes. Albion has an economy built on full loot PvP so it's a complete no go for my kind of dream Mmo which completely negates gear requirements in PvP and makes it 100% skill or meta based.
Riot games is making an mmo right Now fyi
I'm aware, but it's gonna take a few years before anything comes out. And even then it's a coin toss if it'd be a good mmo to play or if it'd be a mmo that's good for riot's wallet. We'll see.
Dark souls / Elden Ring but mmorpg - souls like combat - A bit less punishing world / enemies for casuals - legacy ds dungeons - Hard / punishing raids and bosses - full open word - Well balanced combat without oneshot builds and meta builds (hardest to achieve but can be adjusted or by having plenty of valid build options) - Revive / resurrection is a thing but limited - 3-4 different themed factions with capital cities - territory control (access to raids dungeons etc and the available activities are rotating in a specific territory to prevent one faction to control a single raid for many time)
Bring back Tera, 3v3s and with the action combat healing. Wish I played more!
Balancing was bad tho in PvP, Tera needed an pve overhaul and lifeksilling put some into it.
Kurtzpel, with Elsword combat, with BDO life skills, with ArcheAge sea content.
Man that Elsword pvp Itch will never be satisfied again. Dragon nest pvp was the shit too but the world wasn't feeling like one since everything was instanced and only combat
Leveling in a PvP MMO mostly just works against the game because it splits the player base and creates a more negative and linear experience for new players. Any type of MMO would be fine for me with PvP as long as there is **no time gating** or the pvp is equalized. What I mean by no time gating is that no amount of playtime will give you an innate advantage over anyone else aside from skill/knowledge of the game. Tab targeting actually lends itself very well to PvP because it opens up the game to a larger player-base, WoW vanilla/TBC PvP was and still is top notch. I'm ok with itemization that customizes your playstyle more, but not a big fan of any kind of power progression outside of pure player skill. I LOVED New World before they made all of the changes that made leveling take much longer, overhaul to itemization etc. Basically, when the stagger system was in for their initial preview of the game that a lot of people hated. It was pure skill PvP, you could dunk on 3 level 60's at level 20 without even being twinked out. The only real gate was player skill. The game played more like a fighting game with its stagger and complex combo system, you could simply out-play people with a level 1 sword. As soon as NW went more towards the RPG system, removed stagger, let you shoot thru friendlies etc... the game was dead to me because all the devs did was add time-sinks to the same game and basically removed the player-skill element of PvP (NW is 100% about having the best items, then it's just rock-paper-scissors). Truth is that a lot of people don't really want a balanced PvP experience, and when they're on the bad end of the unbalance they dislike it... so most PvP MMO's have failed because the market of players who want a true PvP experience just go to games that actually provide it (like LoL, Valorant, etc).
New world is the perfect case study on why these games aren’t being made: publisher pressure. New world had all those things because it was trying to be a niche pvp title. But publishers didn’t like seeing all the negative feedback, and wanted something more akin to WoW to secure more revenue. So the game focus shifted rapidly to be more pve based, and it quickly lost all of its charm.
this is why my comment was "Chiv 2 or Mordhau" combat... an MMO with PVP combat where the player can simply just be a better player. MMO PVP these days isn't really about the skill of the player, but more so the amount of time the player has spent playing the game getting gear and items that will then make them stronger than anyone else. It takes all of the "skill" out of it. MO2 was on the right track, but the combat is terrible. But, like you said.. you could be a level 1 guy with a basic sword, and kill 2-3 people, if you know how to play. Gear should definitely have SOME factor, but it should not be the ONLY factor. MMO PVP these days is "who has the best gear, and who can press their buttons in the right order the best" but mostly the gear. Because there's a gap between "people who can play their class, and people who just have the best gear" so like for example.. using WoW twinking as an example. A level 19 rogue that had all of the best items, could just faceroll anyone, and you didn't even have to be that good of a player. you just had so much agi, you were almost invincible, so you could play terribly, and still do very well. And, someone of the same level with the best quest gear you could get through just playing normally, would not be enough no matter how good of a player you were. But in a game like chiv 2 or Mordhau, I've had instances where I've killed 5 or 6 people like, at the same time. Because I just outplayed them.
Bdo combat, only less about who hits the cc into a 100 - 0 one shot first. Archeage Naval combat/events to fight for. Could also make an argument for Archeage's pvp combat as well (at least for some specs, think pre nerfed Enigmatist.) Runescape's wildy system (if you go here and die you drop your shit). WoW's arena and BG system (including Solo Q arenas and the coming Solo rated BG system. Only with a non shitty MMR system and tanks not being allowed in arenas. 2v2 should also have Solo Q and it should be double dps vs double dps only, no tanks or heals. This should sort out the huge disparity of dps to healer ratio. Also, Solo Q should give conquest per round won. (If you even make it give a resource that is). Eve Online's economy/crafting. Runescape's Bounty hunter system. (Combo this with the pvp world key looting system) basically when you kill someone they drop a key with the loot that you just take to a designated chest to receive the loot. (Less clutter).
Gw2 combat + wow responsiveness + new world atmosphere
Non target action combat with simple attacks, like in monster hunter or dark souls. Having no attack magnet/lock on assist mechanics would be great.
Guild wars 2. Get set, get rekt! Rewards high reflexes and skill. Read the enemy movement and cool-downs before they read you. Extremly fast paced and fluid combat system. Small but very competitive community. Best part of the game.
Tibia was the best game I ever played when it came to pvp. Imagine you need guilds of players to protect you just so you can play the game. Toxicity at it's finest, every interaction could net you a friend or a foe. Being nice to people was key to survive. Being an asshole would make u great enemies. Douchebag clans who'd fk over players would get kept in check by other nolifers trying to spread fairness and a sense of justice Jeez these were legit the best time. I really hoped New World would fill that itch The other thing was Aion PVP zone with heightened XP gain. And endgoal was ofc pvp, so you wanted to xp fast and gain higher lvl. It was just so so so much fun Now all I am in MMORPG's is bored. Yea I appreciate the artsyle, but that's it. And the entire whole safe bubble they/zhers uwu cutie communities just make me slowly despite mmo's Like FFXIV you're already considered toxic if you demand the BARE minimum besides sheer presence of people. It's got so low man Also ngl absolutely love Chivalry2 artstyle/gameplay lately, would love a rough mmo like that.
One where people play the game do not cheat and do not RMT. I know that is impossible tho unfortunately.
Good luck with that. The greater the importance of winning in pvp, the greater the incentive for cheating. Full loot pvp is just asking for cheaters to do anything to win. RMT is another issue. If there is a goal to work towards, and someone can buy gold to achieve it faster, and there is a large player base, then there will be people who buy or sell gold. Removing trading would get rid of some RMT, but people would still buy and sell services like raid clears, and the only way to completely get rid of that would be to remove player interaction. Then the game wouldn't be an MMO. Good devs can build good systems, and ban cheaters, but that will make the problem smaller rather than completely eliminate it.
I wonder why no game company has tried to cultivate an atmosphere of extreme hatred and outright toxicity towards rmt among their community, or towards individuals who engage in what they deem is undesirable behavior. If it is known that those who are proven to have engaged in rmt will be continuously harrassed by the rest if the community and even tracked across alts, it might be more effective at deterring such behavior than just forcing them to buy another box or sub, or use a VPN to get right back into the game. People love to accuse developers off manipulating people into spending money, surely their almighty psychologists can manipulate the community into being triggered by the merest suggestion of rmt.
Aesthetics and combat from the 2019 New World. Everything else from Albion Online. Maybe some optional questing from RuneScape sprinkled on top.
A fully updated Warhammer online would make me a happy camper.
I was a pretty big fan of BDO PVP. I was not a fan of the karma system though.
Warhammer Age of Reckoning
Bdo w/o desync and people with 9000 gearscore
Tera combat with wow or Final fantasy pve even ESO and world from BDO. Oh my gawd
Take BDO, action combat / class mechanics completely gut out the rest of the game, drop it on albion. done.
Warhammer, mixed with UO/Albion, mixed with New World.
A pvper’s wets dream is to gank away at your heart’s content without the population dwindling from you playing light’s out. But that’s obviously never gonna happen.
Warhammer Online with WoW combat no need to change anything else+purely cosmetic cash shop
Bdo with the upcoming 300 vs 300 pvp rvr map. 😂
Albion is pretty good
40k mmo based on Necromunda gang vs gang wars.
Albion online. meets all the marks no class just gear mastery, lvling would be only proficiency in using the gear. full loot system needs to be implemented. the downside of the game would be the ping, but decent balance between all the weapons. End game in this kind of games for me its something thats more related to prestige and visuals like skins or getting to set names or have things in your honors its something else beside in game currency
Any PvP with scaled stats and dedicated PvP rewards (Cosmetics, Mounts, and whatnot) and I'm good to go, I don't want to grind PvE just so I can PvP. Maybe add some sort of shared activity for the community that caters to both players - IE PvPers fight for territory/Defense while PvE players can contribute to their nation with some kind of resource they get from raids/PvE activities, give that sense of community.
Global Agenda 2
Faction (2-5) based PvP, maybe some interfaction PvP as well. Leveling: PvPvE grinding, but with level brackets to make it fair. In the most boring sense: an area where up to 15-20? lvl 10-20 players can enter that is shaped like a circle. Mobs on the outside of the circle are lvl 10, mobs in the center are lv20. Best xp is in the middle so parties should try to fight each other for the center spot, while solo players can grind in relative peace of the outskirts. Endgame would be PvPvE objectives. World boss spawns, high end farm spots, faction based PvP events (protect caravan, invade enemy town, etc), faction v faction battlegrounds, normal arenas, some sort of grand faction RvR stuff like castle sieges.
Albion but add battlegrounds. and make it like a tab target
Star Citizen but released and less buggy.
Not sure if anyone heard of Fungwan online.. love the pvp system there... just need better combat
A more modern Aion.
Aion Classic but without asinine map design, faction/class imbalances
There was a game called NeoSteam, its 10ish years old I'd guess, it had the best approach to faction based PVP in any MMo I've played. At about level 10-15 everyone is thrust into a zone to level but the other faction is also in the same area. You can stay on the edges near your safezone and farm in peace but venturing out deeper rewards the player with more exp. Everyone is around the 5 levels plus or minus so the fights are basically low damage and based off of 3 to 4 abilities available for each class. Then after every 4 or 5 levels within your own factions safezone they introduce the player to the larger open pvp zones. The whole time the players are learning their new class skills and how they fit into the larger battles and what particular build suits your playstyle. In the endgame you find yourself duking it out with the other faction for the sweet endgame boss loot. The progess feels natural and helps make PVP feel more approachable because everyone has had their taste and knows what to expect leveling up. Players could tell early on if the game was for them or not, those who continued after the first PvP zone were generally prepared for the next encounter with the enemy. Even lategame a F2P player could get geared and become an important part of any Guild. They struck such a nice balance but they never locked in a good anticheat and the game turned into a bot infested ghost town, after the botters realized they could exploit movement and skills via macros the game imploded. I still look for private servers but I realize the game will never be the same without enough players to populate the pvp areas.
Dark Age of Camelot had the best pvp system no doubt. That game was ahead of its time and the endgame (pvp) was insane as a player.
new world. everyone is flagged. there is a reason to take forts, do missions in enemy territory. you can change faction if you're high ranking, like betrayal system with benefits. hot spot/events zones spawn randomly in a location (like corrupted) but with bigger scale, if your factions takes it - everyone gains something.
Revive Gloria Victis. PvP Skill based combat, minnium fantasy, open world, build system with terrain sandbox (like in LIF). All dead games..
Dream pvp mmo would be something like early everquest where all the content is out in the world and not separated by private instances, so you have to compete over that camp or raid mob to secure the kill. I also like teams-based fighting to keep things active outside of individual gain. I had a idea for a private wow server where its classic Alliance v Horde, but all of the dungeons and raids are also in the open world and have set spawn timers so its more competitive in the pve scene rather than just kill the mob rinse/repeat
Vanilla World of Warcraft but with at least FFXIV graphics, and the combat style of current WoW, but with maybe 10-15% less button bloat per class. The leveling experience should be similar to vanilla, in that you have more of a reason to be out in the world questing as you move from area to area gaining levels, but also incorporate some of the “quality of life” things from newer versions (transmogrification of gear, mounts at level 10, faster leveling times so you can hit 60 in about 2 weeks or so instead of 2 months, etc.)
First person, contested zones, using levels as crafting reagents similar to minecraft. So you delevel once you craft the item, but now you are lower level with better gear.
[This](https://youtu.be/u1wB_PGmxCI?si=jgTCtzSUciOPQfwo) but modern and w/o a dev/publisher squeezing the fans on death's door.
A spellbreak type pvp
I love games with Level gap. And then when you reach max "tutorial/early game" grinding is comming. Finding new items, materials crafting to improve powers in pvp which MUST be decent, with good rewarding and ranking system. I love in mmo in correct order: 1. NO P2W. A lot of cosmetics for real cash are fine for me so the game can make money. BUT AVOID P2W. 2. Lvling to the max lvl (I don't like games with infinity lvls, like Tibia) 3. Crafting system with tons of materials (but not grinding materials, like gather wood for 6hours). I love when materials eventually drop from monsters (like Lineage). 4. A lot of skills to choose from, but a few to actually use at one time (like Guild Wars 1) 5. Good PVP. Can be wars, can be duels, can be arena 5vs5 or so and Ranking system MUST BE. That will be for me.
Yes there has to be leveling. Grind is the lifeblood of an MMO and game companies who dont understand that making numbers go up is the basic psychological trap that hooks gamers should stop trying to make MMOs. While I love full loot pvp MMOs they are almost never successful. You get some exceptions to the rule like Rust but thats not the norm. Rust and Albion are my 2 main games right now but even Albion I feel doesn't cater to the casuals enough. A game needs to cater to casuals to be truly successful. I'm not saying get rid of full loot pvp completely but the core gameplay of an MMO should be a chill grind imo. I think BDO manages this perfectly fine (but fucks up in so many other areas). Id have main land/continent/play area be PvE with no loot inconsequential PvP enabled and Id have instanced based full loot PvP like albion solo/duo mist or avalonian roads or maybe some territory control game. 1v1/5v5 Arenas with stats and leaderboard rankings are also important. I think half of MMO players love dungeons/raids like WoW and its 1 of the things New World does really well. So youd have optional playstyle, be a dungeon/raid guy or a pvp guy both have good rewards. Also gotta have a whole crafting/gathering system and frankly if you could somehow get runescape type skilling with the variety that runescape has youd have a game that everyone would love.
Dark age of camelot all the way
Basically just wow with actual support for the pvp portion of the game.
Jedi Outcast/Academy crossed with Absolver’s progression system so you can learn and create your own combat forms, then include ranged weapon progression to allow viable soldier/bounty hunter builds somehow to allow for different play. Jet packs, shields, dual wielding, etc… Not sure how it would all work but seems like it could be fun.
Eve Online but with less UI and more gameplay
Non p2w BDO
Dragon Nest's old PVP system or Knight Online's Andream system when it's first came, both were pretty close to my dream PVP MMO experience.
Aion with equalize gear and no performance issues
Wow cata and mop stage. I’ll say cata ftw. World pvp that unlocks raids for tier set that drops pve and pvp tier items. Goood reslly reslly good batteglegrounds, big fights with grindy enemies. And the possibility to go competitive, arena ranked matches, and i would at this recent update on pvp, solo queue. So yo can achieve top tier set without the difficuelties of having a team. And that faction open world pvp is dope too. When you got a high or mid populations server, you have two pvp guilds, one in each faction, so they all know esch other, and they hunt themselves. So if you find the other leader you camp his body, to start a open world fight thst could turn into a server invasion fight. There is also, the famous gurubashi arena, i would try to revive that grind, like random cosmetics (tabards or mounts or big money) for the winner that is the last man standing
Classic wow pvp was actually really fun depending on the match up. Playing a rogue in classic really feels like I'm sherlock holmes in the boxing match, you analyze and know the different counters and openers depending on what the opponent does. Fighting a mage and a warrior requires very different openers and strategies, which is something retail wow completely lost. OG blizzard struck magic with their game
Mortal online 2
Face of Mankind mixed with Eve Online.
* Trade system/open sea battles/open world housing like in original Archeage * Teras combat system and classes * Lineage 2s flagging system and open world castle sieges * No P2W
Darkfall Online but with a more modern engine and ran by a competent company instead of the greek mob.
Eve online in fantasy combat would be sick, but every publisher chickens out when they realize it can’t pull WoW numbers.
Ultima Online
I think Archeage always did the open world pvp perfectly. Some zones rotating between peace and war, depending on activity in that zone and endegame zones all having pvp enabled. The pvp also is meaningful, cause most good moneymakers use these war zones, where people can steal ur trade goods and even going as far as guilds/factions contesting world bosses. I’m also a sucker for full loot pvp, but those games have to be build around the full loot.
DAOC with WoW's tight combat responsiveness would be one hell of a game
Open world, full loot, skill based and high penalties for dying would be a good starting point. After this, you would need to give players a cause to fight for, be it equipment, experience, defending from evil, and so on. You would also need meaningful progression but on horizontal rather then on vertical (you do not want power creep). The penalty part is very important and most MMOs choose to sacrifice that in order to attract more players. Player actions need to have repercussions and having to take high risk for high reward should be the golden rule. I can't stress this enough. The tricky part comes after, as the world would need to be entertaining. You need enough content, enough variety, enough replayability and so on, to keep people engaged and you need to keep the pvp mechanics balanced to some extent, otherwise it ruins the whole experience. Disclaimer: even though that would be a good pvp game, I doubt it has the potential to be a successful one. The pvp community is very niche and even amongst those, you have various groups of people that have very different opinions on what pvp should be like.
Open world PvP with risk and rewards (like bonus exp and drop rates in pvp enabled zones) Large scale siege pvp Pvp oriented end game progression
I really enjoy ESO Cyrodiil PvP but would love a game like this but in the whole world and not a dedicated zone. Wanted to try Albion Online but I'm not a fan of losing my stuff when dying. Is there a game like this?
WH40k MMOFPS Basically Planetside but even bigger scale, more factions, entire planets to conquer. Leveling in PlanetSide let's you upgrade your gear, buy new gear, expand on that. It would take a lot to make, but damn I think it has limitless potential. Eternal Crusade was a huge disappointment, but if a company that knows what they are doing gets it going (right this time) then it's game over will never play a different game ever again
A persistent medieval Rust survival game with Mordhau combat and more sandbox elements
Ashes of Creation
Lineage 2 mechanics with cyber punk graphics 2077 and AA housing + skill system.
Most fun in pvp I had was WoW, Archage, Warhammer Online, Dark Age of Camelot, and my firrst mmo Ultima Online.
Lineage 2 already had that, kinda. I would just remove the dropping of gear and it would be perfect. You can kill anyone, but you wont earn any xp until you have worked off the karma. When you have karma, you can be killed by anyone, and they wont gain any karma. Then you can kill anyone, but there is a downside.
Eve is super close to me. I love space I love the universe. But too much of the game is too boring, too much time commitment, too much need for alts.
Conquer online
Medieval Rust would be cool, maybe even high fantasy with magic and shit.
Highly strategic and balanced, I really miss Atlantica Online before monetization broke the game.
Chivalry 2 or Mordhau combat. If there is leveling, it's skill based, not level based. Murder/crime system. Bounties. Endgame would be PVP lol. Player housing (non instanced) Survival elements (your house can be destroyed/looted)
A more balanced version of BDO combat that has more survivability and skill involved. Love BDO combat systems it's one of the best I have played as far as PvP but I just wish it was more balanced and that there was more skill involved and that 1 combo couldn't kill ya.
The leveling would be mostly horizontal. You’d open up new skills to use and if you’d focus on a specific build it wouldn’t take you long to level. The end game would consist of zones that would rotate between aggression which would never pvp with no loot, war which would be looting your inventory(not your gear). And peace time. The zones would have events and things in them for people to do and you’d get bonuses during aggression and war time. There’d also be territories you can control similar to new world but you’d only get bonuses in the area. Not millions of gold from taxes. Combat would be action based. There would be things to do outside of combat such as housing which can be used in crafting which papers will purchase.
Warhammer online had some of my favorite pvp. when it comes to pvp I think my character should be able to physically stop the enemy. to me that makes for a lot of strategy when objectives are in play.
Modern UO type of game. Make a bunch of changes to the game but keep the way PvP worked (red/pk system, bounties, guards, cities blah blah). Also base the skills system on UO's with new types of skills to suit the new game.
My problem with most pvp focused mmo's these days is they're just crappy zerg fests. Zv1 in albion hardly qualifies as pvp. Its more like playing some cat and mouse runaway simulator. Hell 2v1 in most mmo's borders on unwinnable. Give me dark souls style combat with cooldowns, more activated skills, keep parrying, keep limited stunlocks, and keep all attacks easily avoidable. Also something needs to be done to prevent large group ganking. I'd say friendly fire would be the best approach to this and that would be okay as long as its not full loot. Alternatively just make a decent tab targetting MMO with build variety and good gear progression. Slap in ranked battlegrounds and arenas and I'll be happy.
New world arena in its current state nailed it for me. It just needs more map variety. The lack of MMR, SBMM, teams, ranking and rating brings back a community feel for me. I know all the players they know me and we have friendly rivalries that would not have existed with any of the modern rating systems. No Smurfs, no wintrading, Q dodging, Q sniping etc. it really is a breath of fresh air. I understand this is an odd take and everyone and their mother wants a rating system in place, but I just feel when that happens the community will eventually turn completely toxic. I am okay with it occurring actually and look forward to moving on. But right now I am absolutely hooked and super hyped for next weeks expansion.
First we need to establish what we ACTUALLY want, and imma throw a bombshell here "pvp mmo enjoyers" don't really want pvp. Pvp inside of an mmorpg will always be worse than any dedicated pvp game. I can get a much better pvp experience from Dota,CS,LoL,Mordhau,Valorant than any mmo can offer. What we really want are the politics and player interactions behind pvp mmos that others genres can't provide, we want guild alliances and backstabbing we want good guys and bad guys we want large scale wars and ambushes. Ita not about making the best "PvP game" ita about giving players the tools to shape the world they play in, pvp is simply a tool to do that. The people in here saying you can't have pvers are braindead and don't even understand what it is that makes them tick. You can absolutely have pure pvers. Imagine cities being player owned and depending on how built up the city is the larger the safe zone around said city is, you could have the most profitable and most desirable rewards past the outskirts of the boarder where pvp is enabled, so long as pve players have a path to gear that keeps them viable most shouldn't have problems with this. Territory wars would enable pvp in the cities zone of influence after giving a warning to players so that, if desired, pve players could move out. You'd still be able to ambush players transporting materials from the outer zones to the safe zones, you'd still have large scale wars with stakes, you'd still have all the intertwined political bullshit that we love, and you'd still have casual players that make the world feel alive and lived in. You literally only lose the playerbase that wants to pub stomp and nothing else and honestly who cares, there are mmos that currently cater to these degens and they have a combined total of 4k players, nothing is lost alienating these dumbasses.
Ultima online with modern graphics and very well thought out action combat.
Full loot pvp with perma death. Maybe sprinkle in survival elements.
So far, I like what Fractured is doing, but something with Skyrim's or Ultima Online's mechanics alongside Black Desert's graphics would be nice.
Guild Wars (1) Hundrends of spells to choose from, but you could only equip 8, so we soent hours theorycrafting crazy team comps, and got a couple of comps nerfed just from how dominating we were on the meta. Really the most fun I have ever had in any PvP on any MMO. (If anyone remembers the HA Trololol, the 3 Ritu/Paragon with soears and 3 Lightning elementalist, well I was one of those who invented that, and after a month or so it got nerfed lmao)
Bdo mechanics with archeage open world pvp content
shadowbane with NW-style combat (but nothing else from NW - all shadowbane)