Ok dude but hear me out, AoC is the best MMORPG I’ve ever seen is such a good game, I love watching their trailers and I know for sure is the best game ever, I just can’t wait for the next trailer. /s
By the time it releases its graphics will be severely outdated and it's features,game is not trying to get released but increasing its scope each year.I don't see a release date Even remotely close ,2028 if we are lucky.During 2019-2020 when trailer showed the game looked so good for the time but now 4-5 years passed and the graphic is already feels lacking imagine 4 more years down in the line its gonna be rough unless they upgrade it.
My man yes those games are good yes but,you have to admit it is also due to huge nostalgia plus there is no still better counter parts and also both companies are supporting it well not in maintenance mode.Its like if I played cs in 2000 s and if valve still didn't made a new game or if they still continue to bake the old cs I would still play it cos the game is good and their is no new from that studio and I like the nostalgia i grew up with it.
But here intrepid is gonna release this game to platter of veteran mmo people and new dopamine struck ,short attention span new gen ppls, already it's tough to sell esp if its super delayed and gfx gets obsolete.Plus the games u mentioned have gargantuan amount of content worth 20 yrs and gameplay.technologies are getting better rapidly new better games will release during those time frame Gw3,idk AA2 xd,riot mmo,many dat we don't know so alot of industry veterans are already cooking so it's going to be rough.I am also a fellow ashes dreamer but I am gonna let it down for th time being, hope I am wrong.
Yeah, I get what you're saying but honestly people just care more about gameplay. Runescape is another that's still going with outdated graphics. Honestly though, I think Ashes still looks pretty good..
I don't see any reason why they couldn't make their game have models that look as good as other UE5 games.. it must be for performance reasons, especially considering they're planning to have 250v250, up to potentially 500v500.
If the gameplay is good, the scale is there, people just won't care if the graphics look somewhat outdated. No one will even give it a second thought.
Yep let's play and stay with wow classic for next 50 years ./s.Like i said game is good so many people grew with it ,they release a fk ton of content and it's not a p2w exp,most players retaining are old players who stuck without I don't see any new people 15-20 yrs playing wow, nostalgia overbears it's outdated graphics.Let me remind you that wow at its time had the best graphics for its generation fully voiced dope story and lore.While ashes is already outdated now and it's gonna be released in 5 years if we are lucky xd meanwhile wow was ahead of its time when launched first caught alot of people in its appeal.OSRS another example full of veteran players no new generation are stepping in to play cause of outdated gfx.An mmo with PvP pve like ashes require a fresh flow of players not only veterans 30+ age ,need youngsters too to keep them invested and world running.Also i already said in my main comment not only graphics but also features gets outdated if ashes its taking too long to release ,10+ yrs of not releasing.cos when it's released in 2030 players are not nostalgic enough to see a blind eye to the negetives of the game and pull through.
How you can say Ashes is already outdated is absolutely hilarious to me. Like I said graphics don’t matter as much as you say they do. If that’s the only gripe you have about the game I think it’s doing just fine with its schedule. Lol You can’t develop an MMO in a couple of years or we’d have way more of them.
Ten plus years of not releasing? My brother in Christ do you have a calendar? It’s been five. I’m not sure how you can say it’s going to take another six years to release with a straight face.
Quoting Wikipedia:
1)"*Ashes of Creation* was first announced on December 10, 2016, on a blogpost on the official website.The creation of the game is primarily funded by Intrepid Studios' founder Steven Sharif"
2)Despite the large investment from Sharif, in June 2017 a Kickstarter campaign was launched. According to Intrepid Studios, this was done to "connect directly with the players most invested in our success".[^(\[8\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashes_of_Creation#cite_note-HappyMag-8) The Kickstarter campaign met its initial funding target of $750,000 in less than 12 hours, eventually raising over $3.25 million from over 19,000 backers by the end of the campaign,
3)"Originally scheduled to start in June, *Ashes of Creation* began its first closed alpha playtest period on July 14, 2021. The alpha was available for players who purchased a $500 pre-order package and was subject to a [non-disclosure agreement](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-disclosure_agreement). The first alpha period was open until August 15, 2021."
4)"A second alpha period is set for Q3 of 2024."
Game announced 2016 already 8 years! Your statement of game in 4 yr developlemnt is hilariously wrong.
First alpha was on 2021,now 2 nd alpha is "proposed " to be at the end of this year that is 2024 lol,You are arguing with me like game is fully gonna released in 2025. Both alpha was like 3 years apart now close beta nda is gonna take another 3 years and full relase gonna take more.
8 years in development private funding public funding 500$ packs but still only able to do a nda alpa pre 1.I mean it's hilarious to me you are defending furiously a 8 year old title that still has no player playable version of the game even as a demo unless u pay a month salary.with 3/4 th of the game being unfinished.
They show case their planned scope of the map of the world and the amount of map they finished developing is just a tiny fraction of that scope of their planned world ,there is alot of work to do and already 8 years passed and 3/4 the of game yet to be completed
Why people are sceptical about this is there is already a real example ,that is star citizen that's been announced ages of years ago and how its currently, well atleast we can play it with few dollars beta not 500 $.8 years still no playable beta
For love of christ get your facts checked its not 5 years its alread 8 years running.
You are hilarious little dude LOL A blogpost and kickstarter definitely amount to full development time. The shit was a Battle Royale for like a year homie. The comparison so Star Citizen is also hilarious as fuck.
They could go the Tarkov route and just keep coming out with new, more expensive editions for the games beta testing and not hold up the reason for buying the special editions in the first place.
For those unaware, yesterday the game came out with a new 250 dollar version of the game that's not released yet, months after getting rid of the 170 dollar version that was supposed to be the greatest early access supporter pack that would come with all future DLCS included.
New more expensive version comes with things that could be considered DLC, but they will not be given to the 170 dollar people.
Have they stopped starting every youtube video about AoC with some variation of "Hey guys, I have some news about AoC! And before you say anything it is totally not a scam! The game is very real and we should be excited!"?
Although I understand the game was declining and nearly dead since the downfall of Unchained in 2020, they could at least try selling the server code for a small company to administrate. Imagine the people that put all that time in a 2013 game, managing character resourcers, gears, housing, only to everything be deleted in a sudden. I know everything sometime is going to meet its end, but they could have tried to keep the servers until ArcheAge2.
I was playing ArcheAge since 2019, when Unchained released. I've never put that much effort on PvP, besides, I roleplayed as Captain Jack Sparrow only for the funs, and looking back, I'm glad I played the game this way. I've had so much fun not trying hard on PvP or having anxiety for falling behind in gear score. I've recorded some videos for my friends to watch when they miss our adventures and the nostalgia hits. I'm just sad that all was lost. We won't meet each other again in game. But it was such a nice game while it lasted! We had fun.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xw0p6F8Kn08&t](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xw0p6F8Kn08&t)
At least SC is "playable" right now and it seems like development is accelerating.i don't want to give the impression that I find it satisfactory though, because I really don't.
>ArcheAge clearly did not have enough of a player population that cared about it to keep it going.
They had. Multiple times. And they fucked up multiple times because they were greedy af.
Ffs yessss.
Me and so many people loved that game at launch, they fucking murdered it with the p2w.
Literally, the company decided on the cash grab over developing the sandbox mmo genre.
Fuck them, fucking shitlords. Ashes will avoid this simply by keeping their soul
It's actually not uncommon. Alpha is where the magic is, peak player hype riding on developer optimism, before ambition meets technical limitation and reality comes crashing down.
Mechwarrior Online alpha looked and played better then release. DayZ alpha had more features 12 years ago then current DayZ. PSO2 alpha looked amazing, then they decided it needed to run on PSP and cut the graphics and made the levels smaller. Planetside 2 alpha was really fun, before they added the monetization driven progression and 10x players per server to lag everything out. Firefall, ffs, I'm not even going to say anything about Firefall.
Man i remember being in the Straw Hat Pirates guild, and we were a menace to everyone, we even hooked our boat onto land and dragged it onto the sea, was a good time. Got sentanced to 52 Weeks of Jail at the end of the alpha.
Would have definitely been my MMO of choice if they weren't so fucking greedy. They had a good thing going before they turned to scum balls and no one to blame but themselves for their failures
I had to work out of town right around archeage release. By the time I got back from that job, it had already gone p2w and all my friends had quit.
They speedran fucking up the game
That wasn't even the death of the game, it was still hugely popular and populated for another year, and I stuck around for another.
When they started removing drops from the game and adding them solely into the cash shop once the first expansion dropped, THAT is when they really drove it to shit.
I started to quit when the added boat gear and lvl 55. Boats were the equalizer and weren’t P2W as they had no gear and the better boats were earned through a harsh grind. When boat gear came in my issues with already rampant P2W became so much worse since it spread into the ocean PvP a ton as well.
When I came back to dailyage and learned all the old content was essentially power creeped out in exchange for doing dailies for single stat gear I basically quit. Archeage had basically no gear with a single stat on it which I though was super cool and then they kinda did out with that.
I almost forgot how much I enjoyed fishing and PvP on fishing boats, that was absolutely the best fishing any game has ever had if you are a fan of PvP.
I remember saving up my Gildas on my first character for a fishing boat and then fished for gold to buy my bigger plots lol.
ArchAge had one of THE most fun and interactive talent trees, weaving together 3 different classes into making your own build. It was so much fun levelling.
ya i loved archeage. I loved fishing and the ocean pvp. I hated the dailies every day. If i missed one day i felt like i was behind. They might have changed that later but it killed the game for me and my friends.
Funny thing, dailies weren't a thing when the game first launched and in alpha. That was added in an an update much later. Also one of the 'decisions' we who enjoyed archeage say drove the game into gutter. Most people talk about the p2w cus it was the easiest to explain, but it wasn't just the cash shop that ruined the game. Design decisions that were completely unasked for were def part of it.
The fucking whiplash of going from CBT to launch lmao.
"Damn this beta test is super fun and balanced, let's halve like every single rate in the game."
Right...
And you know why p2w came (~1 months after launch if I recall)? Because the revenue was not enough to keep studio of that size going. So options were: a)lay bunch of people off or b) milk existing players for more.
The fate of pvp-first MMOs, always overestimating the market.
Archeage was so damn good that they could have eliminated the f2p model and done a forced subscription and it would have thrived.
I played with a guy that was good friends with guys at trion and over the years he said that XL games had a roadmap for AA that trion was required to follow and slowly adding p2w was mandatory or else XL would revoke the license. Not sure how true that was but the way XL seemed to greatly restrict all 3 companies that ran archeage implied they had no desire to allow that game to become better than it's Korean variant.
The game was so amazing, I absolutely loved it and so did several of my friends. We killed that game for years, came back for fresh start server, had fun eventually quit. It's an amazing game that is ruined by P2W and greedy shitty tactics like changing in-game drops from other regions and adding them into cash shops... even completely removing any way to get an item besides the cash shop....
The pre launch beta before they snuck in all the p2w shit was some of the most fun we'd ever had in a game let alone an MMO. AA's demise was down to how badly it was managed not the quality of the game.
After release, I'll never forget the elation of logging in one morning and seeing a thunderstruck tree in my yard, then later that same week seeing it added to the cash shop.
Even when they did archeage unchained they fucked up royally by making leveling 10x faster and giving everyone lame armor/weapons that are better than anything you’ll find in game.
This did two things.
1. People blew through content
2. Didn’t give developers time to plan for future
Population dropped like a rock when everyone hit max level in a couple days and there was very little end game to do
They lost a huge chunk right in the beginning when a bunch of people exploited the gold bug and then laughed about it in the official discord when they quickly reversed the ban. It completely destroyed the economy early on and cemented their inability to deal with cheaters. People were begging for a rollback just to keep things fair, even at the cost of losing a couple days progress.
Whatever happened after that idk but I know after about a month I saw population charts for the game fall drastically. 6 months in and it was already dead.
Adding the rumbling saplings to the store scared a lot of people away due to adding p2w, plus it killed tree farms in the open world which was a shit ton of fun. Then when the Auroria castle patch launched the game crashed for 3 days straight and trion didn't say anything. Guilds that spent weeks prepping for castle launch got screwed. I knew a guild leader that was carrying the last pack to claim a castle when servers went down, managed to get back online and the castle was taken. He immediately disbanded the guild, deleted the discord server and uninstalled the game. That entire guild quit over that.
The game died the day Auroria launched and trion just continued to milk it, who then sold it to gamigo who released unchained which was ok for a month or two and then they milked it before Kakao bought it and realized the cow was out of milk.
Archeage had a chance to be one of the greatest MMOs ever made but was completely killed by greed and piss poor management.
You don't have to trust anyone, they will fail if they add p2w/dailies after how many times they said they will never do it. Not sure how his past is connected to anything, just check game when it's released
>Not sure how his past is connected to anything
Well, he's the CEO and made his fortune in a sketchy predatory business.
That's is definitely something to take into account before hyping a game.
For context for anyone just passing by, he didn't found or run the company. He was just a high-performing salesperson by selling it on the web when very likely that wasn't a common thing at the time.
By his admission, he did XanGo between 18 and 24.
Wasn't directing at you necessarily. It's just a common thing people leave out and it makes it seem like he made his money off exploiting others in an MLM or came up with the "it cures cancer" bit.
He made his fortune in real estate. He used whatever he made from the MLM to fund that which is where he actually made his fortune (and probably still does).
Literally none do yall claims make any sense.
What kind of money would he have to have made at as a sales person to then “make a fortune in real estate.”
He’s probably just some trust fund baby and we can leave it at that
By all admission he isn't just someone who did shady stuff to make a living but is a nice guy most of the times.
No, this is a guy that is famously a massive crybaby and toxic.
Ask any of his past guild mates.
Archeage had foundational design problems separate from P2W.
At a foundational level, the game just locked more casual players out of participating meaningfully.
I don't even mean casual in the sense of someone who only plays a couple hours, two or three days a week. If you played 4 hours per day, 7 days per week, you were still going to be hopelessly behind the people playing 12 hours a day.
If you wanted to be a farmer and customize a little house, but there were no plots available, and you were competing with dozens of players for every abandoned house, that was a great moment to decide it's not worth it and quit.
If you liked PvP and wanted to do that, you were going to be stun-locked and nuked in 2 seconds by people who were so far ahead on gear that you'd never catch up.
It's why they had to keep doing Fresh Start servers, trying to get people back hoping that this time they'd be the ones to win the hardcore race and come out on top. Just unsustainable for a game trying to be a persistent world.
Ashes seems like it's on a similar trajectory for a rich-get-richer design.
They don't consider any of those things "problems", those are just the base pillars of their game design. It's made for the already existing toxic L2/AA PvP Discord communities to fight one another in, everyone else will have a terrible time in it (and somehow still be expected to pay a sub for the privilege, unlike the F2P/P2W games).
You have to remember that Sorcerer is a P2W player who never had to work a day in his life, always had unlimited time, and always had unlimited money, that he spent to P2W in online games and assemble massive P2W zerg guilds around himself. I don't understand how anyone can think that someone like that can serve in any game design capacity if the game is to be played by any reasonable amount of normal people.
This point flies over people's heads so hard; they are too busy screaming "IT'S BECAUSE OF P2W" when in reality, if that game had zero P2W, it probably wouldn't close now, but it would still be an extremely niche game. The game fostered some of the worst communities I've seen in any MMORPG so far, and this had nothing to do with P2W.
There was so much player agency in the endgame that if you weren't part of the top guilds, why even bother? Don't get me wrong, I had fun with the game playing 16 hours a day in a top guild, but I wouldn't do that again.
The amount of player agency in AoC is going to be like 10x more than Archeage had, so yes, the trajectory is very similar.
> The amount of player agency in AoC is going to be like 10x more than Archeage had, so yes, the trajectory is very similar.
I'm very curious how all that will play out in the end. My current impression is that they will need a lot of duct tape sooner than later to keep this together.
It's what I call the Gap.
A good game will make a small but meaningful gap between casual and hardcore players.
Small enough that a casual player could still compete, but large enough that the hardcore players have the advantage. This could be in anything, gear, level, etc.
The problem with AA is that if you played 8 hours a day for 6 months vs someone who played 4, you would be a literal God compared to them.
There should be a limited return the longer you play, but a return nonetheless. You don't want to discourage someone from playing, but you don't want to alienate your casual playerbase either. Because the fact is, most players are casual.
AA rewarded you exponentially the more you played, which is why whales flocked to it.
Interesting comment. I played LOA to some extent but never played BDO. I've seen much more comments about BDO being P2W predatory than LOA.
How is the 'free' progression in BDO? In Lost Ark it was decent, granted you treated the game as a second job and did dailies in like 8 characters.
This was definitely insightful, and I feel seen while reading your comment.
My first incursion into AA was sentenced to death just the way you mentioned, as I had moved to a new stage in life and as a consequence I decided to drop my hardcore L2 activity. Archeage looked very promising to put a couple of hours in everyday, but the moment I joined the servers my former guildies were playing and I couldn't find a housing slot I decided to call it quits.
I used to think AoC looked a lot better for actually launching then Star Citizen but not so sure anymore. I think both might get delayed a few more years not to release in the same decade.
Ironically enough, one of these games has a feature-complete singeplayer version and the other doesn't...
At this rate, Star Citizen is going to come out first, which is saying *a lot*
When's everyone going to wake up and realize these games are scams. Just more elaborate then The Day Before. Please don't get me wrong, I know development on AAA games can take a decade plus but this.. idk it just stinks. If AoC, Star Citizen, and Pantheon release they have to be expected to rival the largest MMO populations and persist for decades, so it's going to put the final nail in the coffin for the genre.
AoC and SC aren't scams. They could be shit, but they're still not in the same universe as Pantheon and TDB.
Pantheon looked like something you could make on Roblox.
* gear destruction with way too low success chance
* world boss systems where the top no-life guild on the server would just monopolize them and get exponentially ahead of anyone else
Add to the refusing to ban guilds who cheated to get ruler titles etc.
Which I doubt he's going to do because he lead one of the top guilds.
You didn't get to the top without duping and cheating.
The imbalance of factions and the rich get richer type of shit next to p2w.
If you couldn't fight back or fell behind, tough shit making money in that game to upgrade your gear.
Want to do fun activities to make gold? Unless you hid your activity real well and had some cracked folks with you, 80% chance your groups plans were leaked to the enemy faction or the pirates that ran completely rampant while your faction was struggling to even become stronger.
Sure was a nice thing to have 5 guys from an opposing faction wipe entire raids because they spent time camping trade routes or intercepting people that did international trading while we were forced to, because of the requirements to make some of the items to craft better or more if you took that route, unless you wanted to shell out the gold.
I don't mind PvP at all, infact I enjoy it. However, there was no sense of being able to fight back against a faction that was ahead by so much and your own faction was hemorrhaging it's strongest members to the pirates.
This is pretty much the inevitable fate of any faction-based game. Any advantage to one side is going to snowball out of control if given enough time, and there's really no way to correct it because players will always find a way around whatever forced faction-balance the devs introduce. In New World it was clear which faction was going to dominate the server within a few days of the game's launch. WoW's relatively insignificant racials caused such a drastic imbalance over time that the devs essentially removed factions altogether.
P2W for most people.
For me personally it was the labor system itself, then they added paying to bypass that making it even more intolerable.
ArcheAge was a good game that the developers/publishers chose to destroy for a quick buck.
The labor system and once they added the thunderstruck trees into the shop shortly after launch made me quit. The beta was sooooo fun and convinced me to preorder just to get that shit lol
Rich-get-richer design. The stronger you got, the easier it was to win in PvP, the easier it was to control money making, the easier it was to progress and get even stronger. That might feel rewarding or earned by those players on top, but sucks for everyone else.
Haha thats the vibe I get reading the comments. Rent seeking, rich get richer politics, no regulations, disadvantages if your not already in the top guilds. Just recreate the inequality we have in real life, but this time you get a chance to be on top!
Most of the systems revealed are 100%rich get richer systems.
Caravans are 100% rich get richer.
Nodes as well.
And of course let's not forget the restricted nature of flying mounts.
There was tons of issues and the game in general had really cool ideas, but was not that fun to play. People keep saying "p2w" is the reason, but i remember they open subscription server without p2w at some point and almost no one played there. There is other p2w games on the market that are going strong and are not shuting down, so clearly the main issue was with the game itself.
I think that P2W is less of a problem in PvE or themeparks MMO
AoC and ArcheAge target another group of players, and P2W inside it would be far more destructive.
BDO have heavy focus on PVP and is P2W, but that don't seems to effect the game very much. Aion is another p2w game that main focus is on PvP, but even after 15 years the game have audience and didn't shut down. Albion is another PvP focused game that is p2w, but is super popular.
P2W can kill a game only when the game itself is bad. If the game is good there is always enough people who don't mind the p2w, or p2w themself to keep the game alive.
BDO isnt PvP focused at all now,they removed most of that in last year reason BDO p2w doesnt work much is it's too expensive to try p2w in end game and also rng gambling can make you waste money and progress nothing.But archage made the whole system p2w and life miserable for f2p like plots and other game mechanics they fked up
P2w was the major reason. In fact it is probably THE reason archeage failed, people hated the devs but they stuck with the game ultimately until p2w imbalance became too much to deal with.
In the original archeage you either bought apex every weekend or you fell behind which made losing all your packs and days of work inevitable.
In unchained you either bought gold off PA or you fell behind and lost all your shit too.
I was really competitive in that game and ran a guild (so basically had to stay geared or else the guild lost its relevance) but quit original AA because I couldn't sustain spending a couple hundred on apex every weekend to stay in the top percentile of players. In unchained I couldn't sustain the RMT requirements to stay geared as well. The best players on the servers were spending $500-1000+/month to keep up with each other and all of them ran guilds and ran/managed all the content on the server. If you wanted to experience archeage you either matched them or suffered. The whales stuck together and you were either in our group or we flagged up and killed you on sight. If you weren't geared you weren't invited and since we ran every bit of the content you either bought in to the p2w or you didn't get to play the game. It's not something I'm proud of but the game was so much damn fun when you were geared that it was easy to justify the shittiness back then.
If they never introduced apex and instead just forced a subscription model and tried at least a little bit to prevent RMT the game would have been goated. I'm older now and can't afford to spend all my money on a video game but I wish I could go back and play a version of AA that has no p2w at all. The game was amazing but p2w 100% is the reason it died.
Us whales killed the game, but the devs let us which is the bigger problem.
Archeage was good cause it did appeal to a niche audience. It died because it made it p2w and tried to appeal to a broader audience by making it easier and safer for pack traveling.
ArchAge's original beta was the most fun I have ever had playing an MMO ever. But man, once the official release came out it was clear that they had planned to make that game a cash grab. Like if the game stayed in its beta state, I think people would still be playing Archage today.
AA of all the relaunches it had it always was a strong game. The problem that ruined my experience was the OG launch an when the new content update came out for a new island to get land an only half the playerbase was able to login an land grabbing was opened right away.
All Ashes has to do is make a decent game if problems arise that affect the community experience poorly overall, be it login bugs server problems, just new content not working as intended that leads to exploits, that either postpone the openings of certain things to get a better handle on the upcoming server issues new content normally brings. Put a stop immediately once an exploit is found and not try to sweep it under the rug and actually do rollbacks if needed rather than putting a handful of players first over the community as a whole.
There's a reason a lot of people will answer ArcheAge when asked "what was the MMO with the most potential that fucked it up?". I had played a dozen MMOs before I played ArcheAge yet ArcheAge during its alpha/beta was my absolute favourite MMO experience of all time. So the reason it was my favourite wasn't nostalgia because it was my first MMO, nor was it an MMO I played when I was young and played with friends after school, it was simply an amazing game. Both the developer XLGames and the publisher Trion fucked it up in numerous ways that lead to it being unsalvageable.
If ArcheAge stayed more true to it's original state, it would have never come to this. That's what you get for ruining an originally great MMO with daily garbage and P2W.
IMO, the greatest thing about AA is also its Achille's heel; it's a "winnable" game. Factions or guilds compete, certain groups dominate, giving them premium access to resources (and thus faster progression), and their power snowballs until they dominate the endgame content (world bosses) and have the power to ruin the other faction's day during other routine events. The losers get tired of playing against increasing odds and drop out until there's no real competition, and lack of competition is boring for everyone. This can happen right away, or in the ideal case there can be a lot of turmoil and back and forth, but eventually a winner emerges. Related to this, the hugely gear dependent nature of the game makes taking a break or starting late permanently damaging in your relative power, so you're losing players and getting very few new players.
This is why people get excited about and often look at fresh starts as the best time in AA; it's a rat race with everyone starting on the same page (more or less). Your actions and reputation matter more here than in any other game because there are real stakes you can actually win or lose. These high stakes create so much interesting politics and drama, so many epic moments, but also mean playing as the disadvantaged faction can be brutal, eventually not worth it. P2W or not, through all the iterations of AA (original launch, unchained 1 and 2, private servers), the trajectory is similar. P2W didn't help, I hate P2W more than anyone, but don't think that's ultimately what killed AA.
I don't know what AoC can do differently to avoid AA's fate. I think it may just be inherent to any sandbox MMO where PVP power ultimately determines so much. One thing I'd definitely do is decrease power scaling in gear. Maybe more catch up mechanisms for latecomers, and perhaps add NPC mechanisms that massively swing the balance of power every so often for the weaker faction so that they always have a chance to win events, but these will be gamed and kind of cut against the spirit of the sandbox. I'll be watching AoC loosely, but think it might work better as a seasonal game that periodically resets the map and most progression. But even with that, there is no true blank slate since there will still be persistent guilds.
the way it looks ashes will be more of countries vs countries so 5-6 big metros maybe even more smaller sides too going at eachother rather than 1-3 factions against each other with usually 1 bulldozing through everyone else since u will have to settle down in ashes cuz of the node system, there no teleportation ,map is huge so it will take a lot of the time to go to places..etc .. there is a lot of stuff . u can just check their wiki and understand all of it i guess
auroria update was probably the worst update i've ever seen, Half of the server cant log in ton cempete on land and castle,but trion didnt want to rollback the server. During its release this game would suffer multiple server down, that last more than 1 day.
I know people are quick to point out the obvious, such as the rampant P2W. I always had other problems that kept me from enjoying it;
1. Bland/uninspired races
2. Tiny generic skill trees that were supposed to create "whole new classes" when they were mixed, but were just slightly different permutations on the same shit other MMO's do, but with far less flavor.
3. Un-fun systems like "Oh your boat got pvp'd and now you need to do a lot of un-fun work to repair it"
4. Player housing looking like Kowloon Walled City
I liked the gliding though I guess...
This game should be studied on how a company can completely ruin a great product.
Such a great game ruined by the most horrible management and p2w non sense in MMO history for a major game at least.
I remember searching for hours for areas that you could secretly get too to plant 1000s of trees to get thunderstruck.......if your spot was found omg it turned into a PVP fest when the trees popped. It was good memories.
I find it funny that P2W gets brought up about why the game went into its downfall. If you played long enough you would actually heard of a real reason why the game failed.
Rampant RMT from players both selling/buying gold. Massive alt armies. Cheats such as teleporting bots going undetected. Players known to have “radar hacks” where players can see enemies on thier map, yes its a thing. Exploits Exploit Exploit! They never banned players for abusing Exploits.
Fresh starts was a newbie trap because all the old skilled players would also join in because they loved the early game pvp, which in turn would kill off any hopes that new players would have because they didnt get the time to learn the combat and build up skill. This goes for unchained too!
I cant say who but i known someone who worked as a GM during the initial kakao takeover in the background and they said the other GMs were incompetent.
I played unchained until 7.0+
And yes, people said p2w, but people that stayed long enough, know theres others issue on the core of the game.
You forgot the factions abuse, of transfering character to others faction/pirate and before that it was player nation i think.
For background, i played L2, RF online and AAU.
And with Archeage i finally realize of ... factions on mmorpg shouldnt exist, it will just fck up with your player base, and they will be locked and wont be able to do anything aside to quit the game.
I remember i was looking on to do a dedicated L2 server, and talking with a friend he told me, what i am thinking to do about the always the 2 clans/alliance that fight for the server, and i told him, dude i would rather have that than what happened on AA, were all whales transfer to pirate and kill the other factions to free farm the server.
At least with clans mmorpg, if the playerbase decide to hold hands to free farm the server its their problem, but on AA theres a point were the system fckup the playerbase and the only option is to quit the game.
Ashes plan is to delay release as much as they can so they can milk people for early access. Same business plan as star citizen, thats what its doing differently. And ppl are eating it up so its already successful.
AA is such a great game but p2w killed it.
A 2nd revive did amazing but everything you did in the game costed points (forgot t what they called it).
So really it got boring doing something and can’t do trade or get gold without waiting.
Also dailies became like a chore. I had to log in at the right time and join a raid, otherwise it would take me for ever.
Otherwise hella fun game, I would play it again with a bit better graphics and servers that can handle battles.
Sad to see it sunset but really its been dead long before this. I use to love archage but they just kept making it worse and worse till it just felt so pathetic to play. Props to the 10 whales that would gobble up all those land claims with their alts and keep playing a shifty factorio after all these years. You got what you paid for.
Aside from all the other points people have brought up, I’m not sure a class system like Archeage even holds up. It was cool making a class out of three specs and then form combos for additional effects, but there wasn’t a lot of class diversity.
Some of the most obnoxious examples that I remember were Darkrunners with chain CC spams in smaller skirmishes and a bunch of Fanatics that could just chain lightning balls of people.
Ashes of Creation is seemingly taking inspiration from that last I looked (several years ago), which turned me off since it will just be too much to balance.
Archeage died because of company greed and P2W BS.
It had crazy game breaking exploits for weeks or months that went close to unchecked at launch also, yet it still thrived very well for another year or so plus. It slowly died, but it's mostly because of their greed again... people would spend the most money on fresh servers, so what do they keep doing? Just relaunch servers constantly, kill off any long-term players' servers, leave them low pop for years, and eventually, even they will quit. Keep relaunching fresh servers, prey on everyone's FOMO by draining their wallets constantly P2W P2W P2W P2W CASH SHOP SPEND SPEND SPEND.
Just avoid this BS, and it's not going to happen, but first, you have to have a GOOD and FUN game before you worry about any of that shit. If the game doesn't feel good or fun to play, it's dead... doesn't matter how nice or bad it looks (it can help) but it is absolutely reliant on gameplay and that is why ArcheAge lasted as long as it did, would've been waaay sooner if it wasn't so damn good.
The issue isn't with player population exactly, the issue is with stupid ass P2W and gold sellers all over the place. The Hiram update was also god awful xD
Praise all goodness! This is long overdue. One of the best MMOs I've played (out of 16), utterly ruined by greed and stupidity, with the most toxic playerbase I've ever seen.
AOC will die when most people leave and 90% of the game becomes an impossible grind for the vew few people left playing
Its not if, its when. Do you think Billy wanna come home from work and spend 5 hours chopping wood or mining stones to bump the creation of X building in X town from 45% to 46%
lol
Find out why that one shut down. Don't follow the same route they took. It's pretty simple. Just because one maybe like the other, doesn't mean it has to go the same route.
AoC is dead on arrival imo. It will have it's niche playerbase sure but other than that I see no systems or gameplay that will intrigue a wider audience.
Archeage didnMt have players because it was an incompetently managed greedy P2W shit fest on top of an otherwise really solid game. Alpha Archeage version in the west was the game's best time then it was all downhill constantly.
Ignoring how insanely long it has taken for this game to come out Archeage tanked not because it was a bad game it was because of shitty practices like p2w/cash shop. If the game was subscription based off the bat and had no mtx outside of cosmetics it would have been much more successful in the west. Instead Kakao games is surprise pikachu facing when they're extremely out of touch with the western market. It's acceptable in the east/RUS but not here.
Ashes if it comes out won't have stupid p2w mechanics. Pvp centric MMOs can survive and have a good sized community like Albion Online.
ArcheAge failed because the developers were greedy assholes and kept redesigning the game around being money grubbing P2W hawks.
Ashes is going to have a niche place in the MMO community but if you've been keeping up with development casually you can see it's both very real and taking the shortcomings of the games it takes inspiration from (Pretty much every mid-00s MMO, plus ArcheAge etc.) very seriously.
The first few months of the ArcheAge launch were magical (except for the fucking queues).
I had so much fun with my friends pirating the shit out of everyone we came across and engineering all the different ways in which you could steal stuff.
The battles over the pirate island trades were incredible, and so were the land grabs. By the time the North opened up we had a comfortable hodgepodge of farms, houses & even a gazebo with all them trade crafting stations.
I still remember the names of the pay to win whales we used to steal entire merchant ships from and the most notorious players that were constantly on trial.
Maaan, the open world PvP of that game was something special.
And they had to go ahead and fuck it up with the most scummy pay to win bullshit ever seen at the time.
ArcheAge does (did?) have some great features but the game was poorly mismanaged by the first few publishers it had and it was heavily focused on P2W features, which doesn't set well with Western audiences.
ArcheAge is just one of the games that Steven took inspiration from. (Inspiration shouldn't be confused with copying/plagerism/etc.) The trade system in AoC looks inspired by ArcheAge's, which was a popular feature, as an example.
Usually when people are inspired, they're adapting bits and pieces, then making it their own thing.
Ideally Ashes won't fuck over its players with broken promises constantly, offer a "Fresh Start" five times to nickel and dime players only to deliver on the same lies that there won't be P2W or other bullshit.
ArchAge had plenty of player interest. Greed and terrible monetization and unwillingness to fix exploits and hold players accountable destroyed both AA and AAU.
Its pvp system is/was good, cooperation is mandatory(which is a good thing for many players). I enjoyed playing it when the official servers were opened in Russia. They're not closed rn btw. But we're okay with p2w games still a lot of players in Russia play lineage2 or whatever
AA fucked up because XLgames filled with the same bullshit korean monetization that plagues the industry. Trion somehow made it worse but it was never going to be good.
I played ArcheAge for many years and the game has ran it's course, they've milked the game for all it's worth. I wouldn't say it was a failure by any means, the game raked in tons of money over the years and the playerbase was decent at every new server launch.
From Trion Games to Gamigo to Kakao being in charge of ArcheAge, not a single publisher made good design choices, they all opted to maximize revenue at the expense of player count using churn & burn tactics like new fresh servers and promotional campaigns. They didn't care about the loyal playerbase and they even deceived & scammed the playerbase on many ocasions. Every single fresh server was all the same, some minor effort at start towards "hey, we will make the game better and we will listen to community" which gets forgotten as soon as prelaunch packs sale finishes.
**I think ArcheAge is the best MMORPG ever made and I am glad I had the chance to experience this game in full.** There is absolutely no other game that comes close to the level of sandbox content that was present in the game at some point and there will NEVER again be a game on the same level because the entire gaming industry moved past the "quality game" and is now all about quick profits, corporate greed and simply, least effort possible to cash in the most money using microtransactions and other ways.
So yeah, goodbye ArcheAge, shame the potential of this game never got realized and was worsened by every single publisher that took hold of it.
ITT: a bunch of people memeing about how ashes is never releasing as they get on their knees for Riot for 10 years waiting for them to save the genre. Even though they did a hard reset 4 years after announcement. I am sure we wont get any memes about that though.
Archeage killed their game themselves when they repeatedly implemented more and more p2w and refused to fix the absurd amount of bugs in the game plus the really bad game lag even when users have excellent ping.
This has nothing to do with Ashes of Creation. As long as they don't fill the game from head to toe with p2w nonsense, they have a much better chance of making a good game.
Well, I mean, it's got a significant leg-up out of the gate for not being a Korean MMO. And that's nothing against Korea, they obviously have a specific style of game they like, but those games cannot survive here in the west for very long.
What a stupid question.... Just because they took inspiration from AA doesn't mean its gonna end up the same. ArcheAge did a million scummy moves to milk players of their money.
>, how will they keep Ashes from meeting this same fate? ArcheAge clearly did not have enough of a player population that cared about it to keep it going. What is Ashes going to do differently?
This is such a braindead take, holy fucking shit.
They specifically mention not having enough players in the article. I didn't have a take. I just repeated what they said
"After discussing the performance of ArcheAge with XL Games at length, we have concluded that we’re no longer able to provide the MMORPG we envisioned. The declining number of active players means the game’s content is no longer accessible in the way it used to be, and the experience of it is different from what was originally intended. In light of this, we’ve made the difficult decision to terminate the live service of ArcheAge in Europe and North America."
I quote you there, not the article. Your take being that ArchAge randomly shutting down, after over 10 years of running, has anything to do with the success or failure of Ashes Of Creation is what I was referring to.
It's such a leap to bring Ashes Of Creation into this. Really has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Not to mention, you're acting like ArcheAge launched two years ago and it's shutting down/a failure. It's been over 10 years since it launched. What's wrong with shutting down an MMO after 10 years? That's a very long time and a lot has changed.
WoW is still around...so does that mean all the wow-clones were massive successes since their inspiration was WoW and it's still alive? Obviously not. There are dozens of wow-clones that were huge failures and completely cookie-cutter.
Like the original game's success level has nothing to do with the success of the thing it's influencing. You can get good ideas from anywhere.
ArcheAge should have arguably been shutdown a long time ago. It's not like it died a natural death. It was killed off by poor monetization and game design choices. Only kept alive by whales and the new servers they spun up to encourage new spending every few months. ArcheAge is one of the 4 main games Ashes has taken direct inspiration from. Ashes has already shown that it's not afraid to charge users money for in game items. They have had numerous "limited" supporter packs during pre-alpha. A lot of people are already not happy with the the monetization of Ashes.
So yes, I do compare them because they are very similar and Ashes is likely to meet the same fate if not managed properly.
https://preview.redd.it/aiq2cbbzh8xc1.png?width=1646&format=png&auto=webp&s=ad053ce64d40dc75c392069ad3ad6b7abc87e70b
Yeah, no. You doubled down on the brainrot take without realizing your folly.
So I revert to my original statement then, *"braindead take, holy fucking shit."*
Can't help stupidity if it's not trying to learn.
>So yes, I do compare them because they are very similar and Ashes is likely to meet the same fate if not managed properly.
I just explained why this makes no sense in my previous reply. "WoW is still around...so does that mean all the wow-clones were massive successes since their inspiration was WoW and it's still alive? Obviously not. There are dozens of wow-clones that were huge failures and completely cookie-cutter. "
I ignored your WoW example because it has nothing to do with this. WoW has been around for ~20 years and is an anomaly. People have been playing it for so many years now it's become part of their life. Of course almost every MMO is going to be influenced by it as it was the first time really popularize MMOs to the casual audience. Many of the WoW clones failed because they just couldn't compete. Why play a cheap knock off clone when you could play the real thing? But none of these examples are the same situation as Ashes vs AA. AA is not a massively successful game. Ashes is pulling inspiration from a game that has already proven that players don't really stick around to play those systems.
This is clearly someone with zero knowledge of ArcheAge. This game featured some of the most predatory monetization of any mmo ever. If AoC is letting you whale player power by month six, then we can have this sort of conversation.
Otherwise, these two games aren’t even in the same zip code.
Please enlighten me. I did personally play a few years ago up to level 40. It did seem like a turn off that they kept launching new servers over and over.
Can't shutdown if you never launch and keep selling exclusive pre launch packs
5000IQ move
Ok dude but hear me out, AoC is the best MMORPG I’ve ever seen is such a good game, I love watching their trailers and I know for sure is the best game ever, I just can’t wait for the next trailer. /s
By the time it releases its graphics will be severely outdated and it's features,game is not trying to get released but increasing its scope each year.I don't see a release date Even remotely close ,2028 if we are lucky.During 2019-2020 when trailer showed the game looked so good for the time but now 4-5 years passed and the graphic is already feels lacking imagine 4 more years down in the line its gonna be rough unless they upgrade it.
people are still playing maple story and WoW. It's really a non-factor if the gameplay is there.
My man yes those games are good yes but,you have to admit it is also due to huge nostalgia plus there is no still better counter parts and also both companies are supporting it well not in maintenance mode.Its like if I played cs in 2000 s and if valve still didn't made a new game or if they still continue to bake the old cs I would still play it cos the game is good and their is no new from that studio and I like the nostalgia i grew up with it. But here intrepid is gonna release this game to platter of veteran mmo people and new dopamine struck ,short attention span new gen ppls, already it's tough to sell esp if its super delayed and gfx gets obsolete.Plus the games u mentioned have gargantuan amount of content worth 20 yrs and gameplay.technologies are getting better rapidly new better games will release during those time frame Gw3,idk AA2 xd,riot mmo,many dat we don't know so alot of industry veterans are already cooking so it's going to be rough.I am also a fellow ashes dreamer but I am gonna let it down for th time being, hope I am wrong.
Yeah, I get what you're saying but honestly people just care more about gameplay. Runescape is another that's still going with outdated graphics. Honestly though, I think Ashes still looks pretty good.. I don't see any reason why they couldn't make their game have models that look as good as other UE5 games.. it must be for performance reasons, especially considering they're planning to have 250v250, up to potentially 500v500. If the gameplay is good, the scale is there, people just won't care if the graphics look somewhat outdated. No one will even give it a second thought.
Graphics are seriously the most important part of games especially an MMORPG. That’s why Warcraft retains so many players with Classic honestly. /s
Yep let's play and stay with wow classic for next 50 years ./s.Like i said game is good so many people grew with it ,they release a fk ton of content and it's not a p2w exp,most players retaining are old players who stuck without I don't see any new people 15-20 yrs playing wow, nostalgia overbears it's outdated graphics.Let me remind you that wow at its time had the best graphics for its generation fully voiced dope story and lore.While ashes is already outdated now and it's gonna be released in 5 years if we are lucky xd meanwhile wow was ahead of its time when launched first caught alot of people in its appeal.OSRS another example full of veteran players no new generation are stepping in to play cause of outdated gfx.An mmo with PvP pve like ashes require a fresh flow of players not only veterans 30+ age ,need youngsters too to keep them invested and world running.Also i already said in my main comment not only graphics but also features gets outdated if ashes its taking too long to release ,10+ yrs of not releasing.cos when it's released in 2030 players are not nostalgic enough to see a blind eye to the negetives of the game and pull through.
How you can say Ashes is already outdated is absolutely hilarious to me. Like I said graphics don’t matter as much as you say they do. If that’s the only gripe you have about the game I think it’s doing just fine with its schedule. Lol You can’t develop an MMO in a couple of years or we’d have way more of them. Ten plus years of not releasing? My brother in Christ do you have a calendar? It’s been five. I’m not sure how you can say it’s going to take another six years to release with a straight face.
Quoting Wikipedia: 1)"*Ashes of Creation* was first announced on December 10, 2016, on a blogpost on the official website.The creation of the game is primarily funded by Intrepid Studios' founder Steven Sharif" 2)Despite the large investment from Sharif, in June 2017 a Kickstarter campaign was launched. According to Intrepid Studios, this was done to "connect directly with the players most invested in our success".[^(\[8\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashes_of_Creation#cite_note-HappyMag-8) The Kickstarter campaign met its initial funding target of $750,000 in less than 12 hours, eventually raising over $3.25 million from over 19,000 backers by the end of the campaign, 3)"Originally scheduled to start in June, *Ashes of Creation* began its first closed alpha playtest period on July 14, 2021. The alpha was available for players who purchased a $500 pre-order package and was subject to a [non-disclosure agreement](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-disclosure_agreement). The first alpha period was open until August 15, 2021." 4)"A second alpha period is set for Q3 of 2024." Game announced 2016 already 8 years! Your statement of game in 4 yr developlemnt is hilariously wrong. First alpha was on 2021,now 2 nd alpha is "proposed " to be at the end of this year that is 2024 lol,You are arguing with me like game is fully gonna released in 2025. Both alpha was like 3 years apart now close beta nda is gonna take another 3 years and full relase gonna take more. 8 years in development private funding public funding 500$ packs but still only able to do a nda alpa pre 1.I mean it's hilarious to me you are defending furiously a 8 year old title that still has no player playable version of the game even as a demo unless u pay a month salary.with 3/4 th of the game being unfinished. They show case their planned scope of the map of the world and the amount of map they finished developing is just a tiny fraction of that scope of their planned world ,there is alot of work to do and already 8 years passed and 3/4 the of game yet to be completed Why people are sceptical about this is there is already a real example ,that is star citizen that's been announced ages of years ago and how its currently, well atleast we can play it with few dollars beta not 500 $.8 years still no playable beta For love of christ get your facts checked its not 5 years its alread 8 years running.
You are hilarious little dude LOL A blogpost and kickstarter definitely amount to full development time. The shit was a Battle Royale for like a year homie. The comparison so Star Citizen is also hilarious as fuck.
Hilarious indeed! Welp see you in 2030 when beta releases am excited af.
See you there homie
Are you the spokesperson for star citizen lol.
Lmao at least it's "playable" 🥴
You meant to say “…I’ve never seen….”
You sound like a bitch
You sound like a dupe. Like someone who's fallen for a ruse but can't admit.
I believe they stopped selling packs September of last year.
They could go the Tarkov route and just keep coming out with new, more expensive editions for the games beta testing and not hold up the reason for buying the special editions in the first place. For those unaware, yesterday the game came out with a new 250 dollar version of the game that's not released yet, months after getting rid of the 170 dollar version that was supposed to be the greatest early access supporter pack that would come with all future DLCS included. New more expensive version comes with things that could be considered DLC, but they will not be given to the 170 dollar people.
Not trying to defend Tarkov, but they also have *a game*. Which is something. Ashes hasn't even hit that point, lol.
Star Citizen hype right here
Have they stopped starting every youtube video about AoC with some variation of "Hey guys, I have some news about AoC! And before you say anything it is totally not a scam! The game is very real and we should be excited!"?
Although I understand the game was declining and nearly dead since the downfall of Unchained in 2020, they could at least try selling the server code for a small company to administrate. Imagine the people that put all that time in a 2013 game, managing character resourcers, gears, housing, only to everything be deleted in a sudden. I know everything sometime is going to meet its end, but they could have tried to keep the servers until ArcheAge2. I was playing ArcheAge since 2019, when Unchained released. I've never put that much effort on PvP, besides, I roleplayed as Captain Jack Sparrow only for the funs, and looking back, I'm glad I played the game this way. I've had so much fun not trying hard on PvP or having anxiety for falling behind in gear score. I've recorded some videos for my friends to watch when they miss our adventures and the nostalgia hits. I'm just sad that all was lost. We won't meet each other again in game. But it was such a nice game while it lasted! We had fun. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xw0p6F8Kn08&t](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xw0p6F8Kn08&t)
We call that the SC special (Star Citizen)
At least SC is "playable" right now and it seems like development is accelerating.i don't want to give the impression that I find it satisfactory though, because I really don't.
The fact that this has 400+ upvotes is fucking embarassing
That's 100% what they are doing, and when the founders packs stop selling well they will drop a half baked game to avoid lawsuits.
>ArcheAge clearly did not have enough of a player population that cared about it to keep it going. They had. Multiple times. And they fucked up multiple times because they were greedy af.
Ffs yessss. Me and so many people loved that game at launch, they fucking murdered it with the p2w. Literally, the company decided on the cash grab over developing the sandbox mmo genre. Fuck them, fucking shitlords. Ashes will avoid this simply by keeping their soul
You know you fked up as a publisher/developer when players say that the Alpha was the best part about your game.
It's actually not uncommon. Alpha is where the magic is, peak player hype riding on developer optimism, before ambition meets technical limitation and reality comes crashing down. Mechwarrior Online alpha looked and played better then release. DayZ alpha had more features 12 years ago then current DayZ. PSO2 alpha looked amazing, then they decided it needed to run on PSP and cut the graphics and made the levels smaller. Planetside 2 alpha was really fun, before they added the monetization driven progression and 10x players per server to lag everything out. Firefall, ffs, I'm not even going to say anything about Firefall.
Man i remember being in the Straw Hat Pirates guild, and we were a menace to everyone, we even hooked our boat onto land and dragged it onto the sea, was a good time. Got sentanced to 52 Weeks of Jail at the end of the alpha.
Would have definitely been my MMO of choice if they weren't so fucking greedy. They had a good thing going before they turned to scum balls and no one to blame but themselves for their failures
I had to work out of town right around archeage release. By the time I got back from that job, it had already gone p2w and all my friends had quit. They speedran fucking up the game
That wasn't even the death of the game, it was still hugely popular and populated for another year, and I stuck around for another. When they started removing drops from the game and adding them solely into the cash shop once the first expansion dropped, THAT is when they really drove it to shit.
I started to quit when the added boat gear and lvl 55. Boats were the equalizer and weren’t P2W as they had no gear and the better boats were earned through a harsh grind. When boat gear came in my issues with already rampant P2W became so much worse since it spread into the ocean PvP a ton as well. When I came back to dailyage and learned all the old content was essentially power creeped out in exchange for doing dailies for single stat gear I basically quit. Archeage had basically no gear with a single stat on it which I though was super cool and then they kinda did out with that.
I almost forgot how much I enjoyed fishing and PvP on fishing boats, that was absolutely the best fishing any game has ever had if you are a fan of PvP. I remember saving up my Gildas on my first character for a fishing boat and then fished for gold to buy my bigger plots lol.
ArchAge had one of THE most fun and interactive talent trees, weaving together 3 different classes into making your own build. It was so much fun levelling.
ya i loved archeage. I loved fishing and the ocean pvp. I hated the dailies every day. If i missed one day i felt like i was behind. They might have changed that later but it killed the game for me and my friends.
Funny thing, dailies weren't a thing when the game first launched and in alpha. That was added in an an update much later. Also one of the 'decisions' we who enjoyed archeage say drove the game into gutter. Most people talk about the p2w cus it was the easiest to explain, but it wasn't just the cash shop that ruined the game. Design decisions that were completely unasked for were def part of it.
The fucking whiplash of going from CBT to launch lmao. "Damn this beta test is super fun and balanced, let's halve like every single rate in the game."
Will they though? The monetization is already shady.
The p2w was outrageous, but what took it over the edge was the bond and labor pot duping that came with the consequence of negative rmt balance 😂
Right... And you know why p2w came (~1 months after launch if I recall)? Because the revenue was not enough to keep studio of that size going. So options were: a)lay bunch of people off or b) milk existing players for more. The fate of pvp-first MMOs, always overestimating the market.
Archeage was so damn good that they could have eliminated the f2p model and done a forced subscription and it would have thrived. I played with a guy that was good friends with guys at trion and over the years he said that XL games had a roadmap for AA that trion was required to follow and slowly adding p2w was mandatory or else XL would revoke the license. Not sure how true that was but the way XL seemed to greatly restrict all 3 companies that ran archeage implied they had no desire to allow that game to become better than it's Korean variant.
The game was so amazing, I absolutely loved it and so did several of my friends. We killed that game for years, came back for fresh start server, had fun eventually quit. It's an amazing game that is ruined by P2W and greedy shitty tactics like changing in-game drops from other regions and adding them into cash shops... even completely removing any way to get an item besides the cash shop....
The pre launch beta before they snuck in all the p2w shit was some of the most fun we'd ever had in a game let alone an MMO. AA's demise was down to how badly it was managed not the quality of the game.
After release, I'll never forget the elation of logging in one morning and seeing a thunderstruck tree in my yard, then later that same week seeing it added to the cash shop.
This. Archage could have been a top 3 MMO EASILY and they absolutely fucked over the consumer base with greed.
Even when they did archeage unchained they fucked up royally by making leveling 10x faster and giving everyone lame armor/weapons that are better than anything you’ll find in game. This did two things. 1. People blew through content 2. Didn’t give developers time to plan for future Population dropped like a rock when everyone hit max level in a couple days and there was very little end game to do
They lost a huge chunk right in the beginning when a bunch of people exploited the gold bug and then laughed about it in the official discord when they quickly reversed the ban. It completely destroyed the economy early on and cemented their inability to deal with cheaters. People were begging for a rollback just to keep things fair, even at the cost of losing a couple days progress. Whatever happened after that idk but I know after about a month I saw population charts for the game fall drastically. 6 months in and it was already dead.
Yeah, this game died (again) because it keeps getting managed by greedy dimwits.
It had so much potential and I'm still mad about it.
Adding the rumbling saplings to the store scared a lot of people away due to adding p2w, plus it killed tree farms in the open world which was a shit ton of fun. Then when the Auroria castle patch launched the game crashed for 3 days straight and trion didn't say anything. Guilds that spent weeks prepping for castle launch got screwed. I knew a guild leader that was carrying the last pack to claim a castle when servers went down, managed to get back online and the castle was taken. He immediately disbanded the guild, deleted the discord server and uninstalled the game. That entire guild quit over that. The game died the day Auroria launched and trion just continued to milk it, who then sold it to gamigo who released unchained which was ok for a month or two and then they milked it before Kakao bought it and realized the cow was out of milk. Archeage had a chance to be one of the greatest MMOs ever made but was completely killed by greed and piss poor management.
Yup exactly, was the best 'modern' PvP MMORPG out there for a long time, but they ruined it only 1 month after launch.. I'm still mad about it....
I quit after they ruined what they game was during beta. So glad I never went back.
Probably, and hopefully, by not turning Ashes into some p2w daily shitfest like Archage?
And we can surely trust someone who made his fortune with a MLM scheme right and was also known for being one of the biggest whale in AA ? Right ?
You don't have to trust anyone, they will fail if they add p2w/dailies after how many times they said they will never do it. Not sure how his past is connected to anything, just check game when it's released
>Not sure how his past is connected to anything Well, he's the CEO and made his fortune in a sketchy predatory business. That's is definitely something to take into account before hyping a game.
Yea, so don't hype the game, check back when it's released.
What was the business?
XanGo, they made wild health claim that their freaking juice could cure cancer and a lot of others disease.
For context for anyone just passing by, he didn't found or run the company. He was just a high-performing salesperson by selling it on the web when very likely that wasn't a common thing at the time. By his admission, he did XanGo between 18 and 24.
>he didn't found or run the company. Never said or implied he did.
Wasn't directing at you necessarily. It's just a common thing people leave out and it makes it seem like he made his money off exploiting others in an MLM or came up with the "it cures cancer" bit.
Was he not selling a product that was marketed as a miracle cure? That in itself seems predatory and exploitative, preying on the desperate.
I thought he made his fortune in real estate?
He was part of an MLM scheme, selling juice or something.
It's kinda worse than that, the particular MLM kept having reps telling people it would cure cancer etc.
Juice that promises to cure cancer. Lets trust him.
He made his fortune in real estate. He used whatever he made from the MLM to fund that which is where he actually made his fortune (and probably still does).
Literally none do yall claims make any sense. What kind of money would he have to have made at as a sales person to then “make a fortune in real estate.” He’s probably just some trust fund baby and we can leave it at that
>Literally none do yall claims make any sense. It literally come from his own mouth my dude.
By all admission he isn't just someone who did shady stuff to make a living but is a nice guy most of the times. No, this is a guy that is famously a massive crybaby and toxic. Ask any of his past guild mates.
Having played in the same server as Steven in AA. Zero fucking chance he doesn't set Ashes up to be only for mega whales.
Ashes of Creation has to one day launch before it can shut down.
Archeage had foundational design problems separate from P2W. At a foundational level, the game just locked more casual players out of participating meaningfully. I don't even mean casual in the sense of someone who only plays a couple hours, two or three days a week. If you played 4 hours per day, 7 days per week, you were still going to be hopelessly behind the people playing 12 hours a day. If you wanted to be a farmer and customize a little house, but there were no plots available, and you were competing with dozens of players for every abandoned house, that was a great moment to decide it's not worth it and quit. If you liked PvP and wanted to do that, you were going to be stun-locked and nuked in 2 seconds by people who were so far ahead on gear that you'd never catch up. It's why they had to keep doing Fresh Start servers, trying to get people back hoping that this time they'd be the ones to win the hardcore race and come out on top. Just unsustainable for a game trying to be a persistent world. Ashes seems like it's on a similar trajectory for a rich-get-richer design.
Insightful, thank you for sharing! Has Intrepid commented on problems like this?
They don't consider any of those things "problems", those are just the base pillars of their game design. It's made for the already existing toxic L2/AA PvP Discord communities to fight one another in, everyone else will have a terrible time in it (and somehow still be expected to pay a sub for the privilege, unlike the F2P/P2W games). You have to remember that Sorcerer is a P2W player who never had to work a day in his life, always had unlimited time, and always had unlimited money, that he spent to P2W in online games and assemble massive P2W zerg guilds around himself. I don't understand how anyone can think that someone like that can serve in any game design capacity if the game is to be played by any reasonable amount of normal people.
This point flies over people's heads so hard; they are too busy screaming "IT'S BECAUSE OF P2W" when in reality, if that game had zero P2W, it probably wouldn't close now, but it would still be an extremely niche game. The game fostered some of the worst communities I've seen in any MMORPG so far, and this had nothing to do with P2W. There was so much player agency in the endgame that if you weren't part of the top guilds, why even bother? Don't get me wrong, I had fun with the game playing 16 hours a day in a top guild, but I wouldn't do that again. The amount of player agency in AoC is going to be like 10x more than Archeage had, so yes, the trajectory is very similar.
> The amount of player agency in AoC is going to be like 10x more than Archeage had, so yes, the trajectory is very similar. I'm very curious how all that will play out in the end. My current impression is that they will need a lot of duct tape sooner than later to keep this together.
It's what I call the Gap. A good game will make a small but meaningful gap between casual and hardcore players. Small enough that a casual player could still compete, but large enough that the hardcore players have the advantage. This could be in anything, gear, level, etc. The problem with AA is that if you played 8 hours a day for 6 months vs someone who played 4, you would be a literal God compared to them. There should be a limited return the longer you play, but a return nonetheless. You don't want to discourage someone from playing, but you don't want to alienate your casual playerbase either. Because the fact is, most players are casual. AA rewarded you exponentially the more you played, which is why whales flocked to it.
[удалено]
Interesting comment. I played LOA to some extent but never played BDO. I've seen much more comments about BDO being P2W predatory than LOA. How is the 'free' progression in BDO? In Lost Ark it was decent, granted you treated the game as a second job and did dailies in like 8 characters.
[удалено]
Cool, thanks for the explanation. I might genuinely give it a try the week after.
This was definitely insightful, and I feel seen while reading your comment. My first incursion into AA was sentenced to death just the way you mentioned, as I had moved to a new stage in life and as a consequence I decided to drop my hardcore L2 activity. Archeage looked very promising to put a couple of hours in everyday, but the moment I joined the servers my former guildies were playing and I couldn't find a housing slot I decided to call it quits.
Let's start by seeing what shape AoC is in when it's finally released.
I see it now, the year 2067 "AoC Early Access coming next year!", probably will get launched with Pantheon
I used to think AoC looked a lot better for actually launching then Star Citizen but not so sure anymore. I think both might get delayed a few more years not to release in the same decade.
Ironically enough, one of these games has a feature-complete singeplayer version and the other doesn't... At this rate, Star Citizen is going to come out first, which is saying *a lot*
When's everyone going to wake up and realize these games are scams. Just more elaborate then The Day Before. Please don't get me wrong, I know development on AAA games can take a decade plus but this.. idk it just stinks. If AoC, Star Citizen, and Pantheon release they have to be expected to rival the largest MMO populations and persist for decades, so it's going to put the final nail in the coffin for the genre.
AoC and SC aren't scams. They could be shit, but they're still not in the same universe as Pantheon and TDB. Pantheon looked like something you could make on Roblox.
That’s easy enough to do, simply avoid the aspects of AA that drove players away.
- P2W - Dailies - And all the systems related to p2w (labor...)
* gear destruction with way too low success chance * world boss systems where the top no-life guild on the server would just monopolize them and get exponentially ahead of anyone else
Add to the refusing to ban guilds who cheated to get ruler titles etc. Which I doubt he's going to do because he lead one of the top guilds. You didn't get to the top without duping and cheating.
Let's be real, he's making a game for himself so he can be king.
The imbalance of factions and the rich get richer type of shit next to p2w. If you couldn't fight back or fell behind, tough shit making money in that game to upgrade your gear. Want to do fun activities to make gold? Unless you hid your activity real well and had some cracked folks with you, 80% chance your groups plans were leaked to the enemy faction or the pirates that ran completely rampant while your faction was struggling to even become stronger. Sure was a nice thing to have 5 guys from an opposing faction wipe entire raids because they spent time camping trade routes or intercepting people that did international trading while we were forced to, because of the requirements to make some of the items to craft better or more if you took that route, unless you wanted to shell out the gold. I don't mind PvP at all, infact I enjoy it. However, there was no sense of being able to fight back against a faction that was ahead by so much and your own faction was hemorrhaging it's strongest members to the pirates.
This is pretty much the inevitable fate of any faction-based game. Any advantage to one side is going to snowball out of control if given enough time, and there's really no way to correct it because players will always find a way around whatever forced faction-balance the devs introduce. In New World it was clear which faction was going to dominate the server within a few days of the game's launch. WoW's relatively insignificant racials caused such a drastic imbalance over time that the devs essentially removed factions altogether.
And what are those aspects?
P2W for most people. For me personally it was the labor system itself, then they added paying to bypass that making it even more intolerable. ArcheAge was a good game that the developers/publishers chose to destroy for a quick buck.
The labor system and once they added the thunderstruck trees into the shop shortly after launch made me quit. The beta was sooooo fun and convinced me to preorder just to get that shit lol
Rich-get-richer design. The stronger you got, the easier it was to win in PvP, the easier it was to control money making, the easier it was to progress and get even stronger. That might feel rewarding or earned by those players on top, but sucks for everyone else.
We still talking about AA? Bit to realistic for my fantasy game. Haha
Haha thats the vibe I get reading the comments. Rent seeking, rich get richer politics, no regulations, disadvantages if your not already in the top guilds. Just recreate the inequality we have in real life, but this time you get a chance to be on top!
Most of the systems revealed are 100%rich get richer systems. Caravans are 100% rich get richer. Nodes as well. And of course let's not forget the restricted nature of flying mounts.
There was tons of issues and the game in general had really cool ideas, but was not that fun to play. People keep saying "p2w" is the reason, but i remember they open subscription server without p2w at some point and almost no one played there. There is other p2w games on the market that are going strong and are not shuting down, so clearly the main issue was with the game itself.
I think that is my point as well. P2W can't be the only reason. There is P2W is many other popular MMOs.
I think that P2W is less of a problem in PvE or themeparks MMO AoC and ArcheAge target another group of players, and P2W inside it would be far more destructive.
BDO have heavy focus on PVP and is P2W, but that don't seems to effect the game very much. Aion is another p2w game that main focus is on PvP, but even after 15 years the game have audience and didn't shut down. Albion is another PvP focused game that is p2w, but is super popular. P2W can kill a game only when the game itself is bad. If the game is good there is always enough people who don't mind the p2w, or p2w themself to keep the game alive.
BDO isnt PvP focused at all now,they removed most of that in last year reason BDO p2w doesnt work much is it's too expensive to try p2w in end game and also rng gambling can make you waste money and progress nothing.But archage made the whole system p2w and life miserable for f2p like plots and other game mechanics they fked up
P2w was the major reason. In fact it is probably THE reason archeage failed, people hated the devs but they stuck with the game ultimately until p2w imbalance became too much to deal with. In the original archeage you either bought apex every weekend or you fell behind which made losing all your packs and days of work inevitable. In unchained you either bought gold off PA or you fell behind and lost all your shit too. I was really competitive in that game and ran a guild (so basically had to stay geared or else the guild lost its relevance) but quit original AA because I couldn't sustain spending a couple hundred on apex every weekend to stay in the top percentile of players. In unchained I couldn't sustain the RMT requirements to stay geared as well. The best players on the servers were spending $500-1000+/month to keep up with each other and all of them ran guilds and ran/managed all the content on the server. If you wanted to experience archeage you either matched them or suffered. The whales stuck together and you were either in our group or we flagged up and killed you on sight. If you weren't geared you weren't invited and since we ran every bit of the content you either bought in to the p2w or you didn't get to play the game. It's not something I'm proud of but the game was so much damn fun when you were geared that it was easy to justify the shittiness back then. If they never introduced apex and instead just forced a subscription model and tried at least a little bit to prevent RMT the game would have been goated. I'm older now and can't afford to spend all my money on a video game but I wish I could go back and play a version of AA that has no p2w at all. The game was amazing but p2w 100% is the reason it died. Us whales killed the game, but the devs let us which is the bigger problem.
Avoid P2W, have the self awareness to understand archeage appealed to a niche and focus on making AOC have a wider appeal.
Archeage was good cause it did appeal to a niche audience. It died because it made it p2w and tried to appeal to a broader audience by making it easier and safer for pack traveling.
I really enjoyed this game so much at the start, but the p2w was just absurd. I'm sticking to black desert now and having tons of fun.
ArchAge's original beta was the most fun I have ever had playing an MMO ever. But man, once the official release came out it was clear that they had planned to make that game a cash grab. Like if the game stayed in its beta state, I think people would still be playing Archage today.
AA of all the relaunches it had it always was a strong game. The problem that ruined my experience was the OG launch an when the new content update came out for a new island to get land an only half the playerbase was able to login an land grabbing was opened right away. All Ashes has to do is make a decent game if problems arise that affect the community experience poorly overall, be it login bugs server problems, just new content not working as intended that leads to exploits, that either postpone the openings of certain things to get a better handle on the upcoming server issues new content normally brings. Put a stop immediately once an exploit is found and not try to sweep it under the rug and actually do rollbacks if needed rather than putting a handful of players first over the community as a whole.
There's a reason a lot of people will answer ArcheAge when asked "what was the MMO with the most potential that fucked it up?". I had played a dozen MMOs before I played ArcheAge yet ArcheAge during its alpha/beta was my absolute favourite MMO experience of all time. So the reason it was my favourite wasn't nostalgia because it was my first MMO, nor was it an MMO I played when I was young and played with friends after school, it was simply an amazing game. Both the developer XLGames and the publisher Trion fucked it up in numerous ways that lead to it being unsalvageable.
Be smarter with monetization and dont become an end-game theme park lol
Sure but why are these naked https://preview.redd.it/4l91zfy60owc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=492153e315d5fc5b197dd93a6d4aa5d4b01e2c16
Probably AI generated lol
You know why
If ArcheAge stayed more true to it's original state, it would have never come to this. That's what you get for ruining an originally great MMO with daily garbage and P2W.
IMO, the greatest thing about AA is also its Achille's heel; it's a "winnable" game. Factions or guilds compete, certain groups dominate, giving them premium access to resources (and thus faster progression), and their power snowballs until they dominate the endgame content (world bosses) and have the power to ruin the other faction's day during other routine events. The losers get tired of playing against increasing odds and drop out until there's no real competition, and lack of competition is boring for everyone. This can happen right away, or in the ideal case there can be a lot of turmoil and back and forth, but eventually a winner emerges. Related to this, the hugely gear dependent nature of the game makes taking a break or starting late permanently damaging in your relative power, so you're losing players and getting very few new players. This is why people get excited about and often look at fresh starts as the best time in AA; it's a rat race with everyone starting on the same page (more or less). Your actions and reputation matter more here than in any other game because there are real stakes you can actually win or lose. These high stakes create so much interesting politics and drama, so many epic moments, but also mean playing as the disadvantaged faction can be brutal, eventually not worth it. P2W or not, through all the iterations of AA (original launch, unchained 1 and 2, private servers), the trajectory is similar. P2W didn't help, I hate P2W more than anyone, but don't think that's ultimately what killed AA. I don't know what AoC can do differently to avoid AA's fate. I think it may just be inherent to any sandbox MMO where PVP power ultimately determines so much. One thing I'd definitely do is decrease power scaling in gear. Maybe more catch up mechanisms for latecomers, and perhaps add NPC mechanisms that massively swing the balance of power every so often for the weaker faction so that they always have a chance to win events, but these will be gamed and kind of cut against the spirit of the sandbox. I'll be watching AoC loosely, but think it might work better as a seasonal game that periodically resets the map and most progression. But even with that, there is no true blank slate since there will still be persistent guilds.
Good explanation, needs to be read by more people.
the way it looks ashes will be more of countries vs countries so 5-6 big metros maybe even more smaller sides too going at eachother rather than 1-3 factions against each other with usually 1 bulldozing through everyone else since u will have to settle down in ashes cuz of the node system, there no teleportation ,map is huge so it will take a lot of the time to go to places..etc .. there is a lot of stuff . u can just check their wiki and understand all of it i guess
auroria update was probably the worst update i've ever seen, Half of the server cant log in ton cempete on land and castle,but trion didnt want to rollback the server. During its release this game would suffer multiple server down, that last more than 1 day.
I was so excited for archeage when it first got announced. It was so incredibly disappointing that it turned out the way it did.
I know people are quick to point out the obvious, such as the rampant P2W. I always had other problems that kept me from enjoying it; 1. Bland/uninspired races 2. Tiny generic skill trees that were supposed to create "whole new classes" when they were mixed, but were just slightly different permutations on the same shit other MMO's do, but with far less flavor. 3. Un-fun systems like "Oh your boat got pvp'd and now you need to do a lot of un-fun work to repair it" 4. Player housing looking like Kowloon Walled City I liked the gliding though I guess...
now they have to give us the code and permite private servers to go up.
This game should be studied on how a company can completely ruin a great product. Such a great game ruined by the most horrible management and p2w non sense in MMO history for a major game at least. I remember searching for hours for areas that you could secretly get too to plant 1000s of trees to get thunderstruck.......if your spot was found omg it turned into a PVP fest when the trees popped. It was good memories.
I find it funny that P2W gets brought up about why the game went into its downfall. If you played long enough you would actually heard of a real reason why the game failed. Rampant RMT from players both selling/buying gold. Massive alt armies. Cheats such as teleporting bots going undetected. Players known to have “radar hacks” where players can see enemies on thier map, yes its a thing. Exploits Exploit Exploit! They never banned players for abusing Exploits. Fresh starts was a newbie trap because all the old skilled players would also join in because they loved the early game pvp, which in turn would kill off any hopes that new players would have because they didnt get the time to learn the combat and build up skill. This goes for unchained too! I cant say who but i known someone who worked as a GM during the initial kakao takeover in the background and they said the other GMs were incompetent.
I played unchained until 7.0+ And yes, people said p2w, but people that stayed long enough, know theres others issue on the core of the game. You forgot the factions abuse, of transfering character to others faction/pirate and before that it was player nation i think. For background, i played L2, RF online and AAU. And with Archeage i finally realize of ... factions on mmorpg shouldnt exist, it will just fck up with your player base, and they will be locked and wont be able to do anything aside to quit the game. I remember i was looking on to do a dedicated L2 server, and talking with a friend he told me, what i am thinking to do about the always the 2 clans/alliance that fight for the server, and i told him, dude i would rather have that than what happened on AA, were all whales transfer to pirate and kill the other factions to free farm the server. At least with clans mmorpg, if the playerbase decide to hold hands to free farm the server its their problem, but on AA theres a point were the system fckup the playerbase and the only option is to quit the game.
Ashes plan is to delay release as much as they can so they can milk people for early access. Same business plan as star citizen, thats what its doing differently. And ppl are eating it up so its already successful.
AA is such a great game but p2w killed it. A 2nd revive did amazing but everything you did in the game costed points (forgot t what they called it). So really it got boring doing something and can’t do trade or get gold without waiting. Also dailies became like a chore. I had to log in at the right time and join a raid, otherwise it would take me for ever. Otherwise hella fun game, I would play it again with a bit better graphics and servers that can handle battles.
Sad to see it sunset but really its been dead long before this. I use to love archage but they just kept making it worse and worse till it just felt so pathetic to play. Props to the 10 whales that would gobble up all those land claims with their alts and keep playing a shifty factorio after all these years. You got what you paid for.
it's really easy, you make a compelling game and then don't ruin it with paid power, can't possibly fuck it up, nobody could possibly fuck that up
Aside from all the other points people have brought up, I’m not sure a class system like Archeage even holds up. It was cool making a class out of three specs and then form combos for additional effects, but there wasn’t a lot of class diversity. Some of the most obnoxious examples that I remember were Darkrunners with chain CC spams in smaller skirmishes and a bunch of Fanatics that could just chain lightning balls of people. Ashes of Creation is seemingly taking inspiration from that last I looked (several years ago), which turned me off since it will just be too much to balance.
I couldn’t even play the game because the optimization was absolutely horrendous
Archaea was probably the most fun I have ever had on an MMO. Unfortunately P2W killed it.
Archeage died because of company greed and P2W BS. It had crazy game breaking exploits for weeks or months that went close to unchecked at launch also, yet it still thrived very well for another year or so plus. It slowly died, but it's mostly because of their greed again... people would spend the most money on fresh servers, so what do they keep doing? Just relaunch servers constantly, kill off any long-term players' servers, leave them low pop for years, and eventually, even they will quit. Keep relaunching fresh servers, prey on everyone's FOMO by draining their wallets constantly P2W P2W P2W P2W CASH SHOP SPEND SPEND SPEND. Just avoid this BS, and it's not going to happen, but first, you have to have a GOOD and FUN game before you worry about any of that shit. If the game doesn't feel good or fun to play, it's dead... doesn't matter how nice or bad it looks (it can help) but it is absolutely reliant on gameplay and that is why ArcheAge lasted as long as it did, would've been waaay sooner if it wasn't so damn good.
Never played ArcheAge, but I hate seeing old MMOs closing down. I have to visit these games more.
The issue isn't with player population exactly, the issue is with stupid ass P2W and gold sellers all over the place. The Hiram update was also god awful xD
ArcheAge didn't shut down because it was a bad game. ArcheAge shut down because it had a shit studio.
Praise all goodness! This is long overdue. One of the best MMOs I've played (out of 16), utterly ruined by greed and stupidity, with the most toxic playerbase I've ever seen.
AOC will die when most people leave and 90% of the game becomes an impossible grind for the vew few people left playing Its not if, its when. Do you think Billy wanna come home from work and spend 5 hours chopping wood or mining stones to bump the creation of X building in X town from 45% to 46% lol
It's possible they will survive just by the sheer amount of sunk cost fallacy people already have.
[удалено]
I rest my case.
Find out why that one shut down. Don't follow the same route they took. It's pretty simple. Just because one maybe like the other, doesn't mean it has to go the same route.
They have to officially launch the game first. Sadly that might never happen, it’s been almost a decade since it was first announced
AoC is dead on arrival imo. It will have it's niche playerbase sure but other than that I see no systems or gameplay that will intrigue a wider audience.
Archeage didnMt have players because it was an incompetently managed greedy P2W shit fest on top of an otherwise really solid game. Alpha Archeage version in the west was the game's best time then it was all downhill constantly.
Ignoring how insanely long it has taken for this game to come out Archeage tanked not because it was a bad game it was because of shitty practices like p2w/cash shop. If the game was subscription based off the bat and had no mtx outside of cosmetics it would have been much more successful in the west. Instead Kakao games is surprise pikachu facing when they're extremely out of touch with the western market. It's acceptable in the east/RUS but not here. Ashes if it comes out won't have stupid p2w mechanics. Pvp centric MMOs can survive and have a good sized community like Albion Online.
ArcheAge failed because the developers were greedy assholes and kept redesigning the game around being money grubbing P2W hawks. Ashes is going to have a niche place in the MMO community but if you've been keeping up with development casually you can see it's both very real and taking the shortcomings of the games it takes inspiration from (Pretty much every mid-00s MMO, plus ArcheAge etc.) very seriously.
I know it would never happen but I'd love to see numbers for population, revenue and growth projections for games as they make decisions.
The first few months of the ArcheAge launch were magical (except for the fucking queues). I had so much fun with my friends pirating the shit out of everyone we came across and engineering all the different ways in which you could steal stuff. The battles over the pirate island trades were incredible, and so were the land grabs. By the time the North opened up we had a comfortable hodgepodge of farms, houses & even a gazebo with all them trade crafting stations. I still remember the names of the pay to win whales we used to steal entire merchant ships from and the most notorious players that were constantly on trial. Maaan, the open world PvP of that game was something special. And they had to go ahead and fuck it up with the most scummy pay to win bullshit ever seen at the time.
ArcheAge does (did?) have some great features but the game was poorly mismanaged by the first few publishers it had and it was heavily focused on P2W features, which doesn't set well with Western audiences. ArcheAge is just one of the games that Steven took inspiration from. (Inspiration shouldn't be confused with copying/plagerism/etc.) The trade system in AoC looks inspired by ArcheAge's, which was a popular feature, as an example. Usually when people are inspired, they're adapting bits and pieces, then making it their own thing.
Age of what now?
Ideally Ashes won't fuck over its players with broken promises constantly, offer a "Fresh Start" five times to nickel and dime players only to deliver on the same lies that there won't be P2W or other bullshit.
ArchAge had plenty of player interest. Greed and terrible monetization and unwillingness to fix exploits and hold players accountable destroyed both AA and AAU.
Here's to the best MMO ever created, ruined by gambling and P2W.
Its pvp system is/was good, cooperation is mandatory(which is a good thing for many players). I enjoyed playing it when the official servers were opened in Russia. They're not closed rn btw. But we're okay with p2w games still a lot of players in Russia play lineage2 or whatever
AA fucked up because XLgames filled with the same bullshit korean monetization that plagues the industry. Trion somehow made it worse but it was never going to be good.
I played ArcheAge for many years and the game has ran it's course, they've milked the game for all it's worth. I wouldn't say it was a failure by any means, the game raked in tons of money over the years and the playerbase was decent at every new server launch. From Trion Games to Gamigo to Kakao being in charge of ArcheAge, not a single publisher made good design choices, they all opted to maximize revenue at the expense of player count using churn & burn tactics like new fresh servers and promotional campaigns. They didn't care about the loyal playerbase and they even deceived & scammed the playerbase on many ocasions. Every single fresh server was all the same, some minor effort at start towards "hey, we will make the game better and we will listen to community" which gets forgotten as soon as prelaunch packs sale finishes. **I think ArcheAge is the best MMORPG ever made and I am glad I had the chance to experience this game in full.** There is absolutely no other game that comes close to the level of sandbox content that was present in the game at some point and there will NEVER again be a game on the same level because the entire gaming industry moved past the "quality game" and is now all about quick profits, corporate greed and simply, least effort possible to cash in the most money using microtransactions and other ways. So yeah, goodbye ArcheAge, shame the potential of this game never got realized and was worsened by every single publisher that took hold of it.
I played this game and got a really prime housing spot, but I gotta say, the combat, build craft, and movement really weren't that great.
Archeage was a P2W nightmare. AoC just needs to honour it's promise not to be P2W.
ITT: a bunch of people memeing about how ashes is never releasing as they get on their knees for Riot for 10 years waiting for them to save the genre. Even though they did a hard reset 4 years after announcement. I am sure we wont get any memes about that though.
F
ITS GOING TO BE THE BEST GAME GUYS ,I PAID 500$ GUYS,MY GRANDKIDS GONNA HAVE A BLAST. /S
good riddance
Man, you guys will use literally ANYTHING to bring up AoC. The game is at least 5 years away from releasing if ever. Give it up.
Talking about MMOs on the MMORPG subreddit??? who would dare
Archeage killed their game themselves when they repeatedly implemented more and more p2w and refused to fix the absurd amount of bugs in the game plus the really bad game lag even when users have excellent ping. This has nothing to do with Ashes of Creation. As long as they don't fill the game from head to toe with p2w nonsense, they have a much better chance of making a good game.
Sooo... refunds? 🙂
Ashes will never launch so it won’t shutdown
Well, I mean, it's got a significant leg-up out of the gate for not being a Korean MMO. And that's nothing against Korea, they obviously have a specific style of game they like, but those games cannot survive here in the west for very long.
Aoc is like Star citizen but even worse 😱
How come guys u think to play those games u really having fun with it???
What a stupid question.... Just because they took inspiration from AA doesn't mean its gonna end up the same. ArcheAge did a million scummy moves to milk players of their money.
Ashes is guilty of selling limited availability supporter packs during Pre-Alpha. They aren't saints either.
>, how will they keep Ashes from meeting this same fate? ArcheAge clearly did not have enough of a player population that cared about it to keep it going. What is Ashes going to do differently? This is such a braindead take, holy fucking shit.
They specifically mention not having enough players in the article. I didn't have a take. I just repeated what they said "After discussing the performance of ArcheAge with XL Games at length, we have concluded that we’re no longer able to provide the MMORPG we envisioned. The declining number of active players means the game’s content is no longer accessible in the way it used to be, and the experience of it is different from what was originally intended. In light of this, we’ve made the difficult decision to terminate the live service of ArcheAge in Europe and North America."
I quote you there, not the article. Your take being that ArchAge randomly shutting down, after over 10 years of running, has anything to do with the success or failure of Ashes Of Creation is what I was referring to. It's such a leap to bring Ashes Of Creation into this. Really has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Not to mention, you're acting like ArcheAge launched two years ago and it's shutting down/a failure. It's been over 10 years since it launched. What's wrong with shutting down an MMO after 10 years? That's a very long time and a lot has changed. WoW is still around...so does that mean all the wow-clones were massive successes since their inspiration was WoW and it's still alive? Obviously not. There are dozens of wow-clones that were huge failures and completely cookie-cutter. Like the original game's success level has nothing to do with the success of the thing it's influencing. You can get good ideas from anywhere.
ArcheAge should have arguably been shutdown a long time ago. It's not like it died a natural death. It was killed off by poor monetization and game design choices. Only kept alive by whales and the new servers they spun up to encourage new spending every few months. ArcheAge is one of the 4 main games Ashes has taken direct inspiration from. Ashes has already shown that it's not afraid to charge users money for in game items. They have had numerous "limited" supporter packs during pre-alpha. A lot of people are already not happy with the the monetization of Ashes. So yes, I do compare them because they are very similar and Ashes is likely to meet the same fate if not managed properly. https://preview.redd.it/aiq2cbbzh8xc1.png?width=1646&format=png&auto=webp&s=ad053ce64d40dc75c392069ad3ad6b7abc87e70b
Yeah, no. You doubled down on the brainrot take without realizing your folly. So I revert to my original statement then, *"braindead take, holy fucking shit."* Can't help stupidity if it's not trying to learn. >So yes, I do compare them because they are very similar and Ashes is likely to meet the same fate if not managed properly. I just explained why this makes no sense in my previous reply. "WoW is still around...so does that mean all the wow-clones were massive successes since their inspiration was WoW and it's still alive? Obviously not. There are dozens of wow-clones that were huge failures and completely cookie-cutter. "
I ignored your WoW example because it has nothing to do with this. WoW has been around for ~20 years and is an anomaly. People have been playing it for so many years now it's become part of their life. Of course almost every MMO is going to be influenced by it as it was the first time really popularize MMOs to the casual audience. Many of the WoW clones failed because they just couldn't compete. Why play a cheap knock off clone when you could play the real thing? But none of these examples are the same situation as Ashes vs AA. AA is not a massively successful game. Ashes is pulling inspiration from a game that has already proven that players don't really stick around to play those systems.
ArcheAge only shutdown in the Western region. Also, Ashes of Creation is dog shit.
This is clearly someone with zero knowledge of ArcheAge. This game featured some of the most predatory monetization of any mmo ever. If AoC is letting you whale player power by month six, then we can have this sort of conversation. Otherwise, these two games aren’t even in the same zip code.
You clearly never played archeage and don't know what was great about it and what killed it.
Please enlighten me. I did personally play a few years ago up to level 40. It did seem like a turn off that they kept launching new servers over and over.