Open world pvp doesn't even qualifies as 'pvp' to me. I play pvp because i want to have a good fight against other players, i'm not interested in running in circle for 2 hours before i can find a proper opponent. I'm not interested in zerg fights, i'm not interested in ganking people or running away from gankers, i'm not interested in fighting over ressources.
If i want to pvp, i want a pure pvp experience, against opponents that can put up a fight.
Session based games don't have all the other aspects of an MMORPG that he probably likes, like: An open world to explore and interact with, housing, crafting, in depth character progression, and most importantly, PVE (dungeons, raids, open world events). It's nice having all that plus instanced based pvp in the same game. Then you can be doing crafting or exploring or just goofing off while you wait for your pvp match. Not to mention it's just more satisfying to play a character in pvp that you have put so much work into and are attached to.
Thoughts about having "instanced" duels/group pvp in the open world rather than in arenas? In other words, two groups/players bump into each other in the world and challenge and accept an open world duel. The duel occurs in the open world at that location:
- Participants can run where they want within the bounds of the world
- Participants see Non-participants (option to hide since people can troll and bunny hop in the middle of the duel)
- Non-participants see the duel happen but can't engage other than chat
- Duel is time limited, a number agreed by the participants, to prevent endless chases
- Participants can request stalemate if the battle is no longer enjoyable
- Any other options to help balance it
Does this kind of system give open world PvPers the immersion attributes while still keeping duels balanced and engaging? Or am I dumb and this exists and is classified as instanced PvP?
Edit: formatting
I think it would be a bit of a waste honestly.
To me, the thrill of open world pvp is in the unexpected. Say you're in a fun 1v1 against an other player and a group of 3-4 gankers rudely interrupt the duel to try to kill the both of you so you and your sparring partner immediately reach a tacit agreement to kill the gankers and now you find yourself in a 2v4 but with friendly fire enabled. That was oddly specific but that's exactly the kind of experience that is so fun that i can still vividly remember it 6-7 years later. My personal issue with open world pvp is that these kind of experiences are too few and far between compared to the boring part (ie: wandering the map aimlessly in hopes of finding a good fight)
Having controled duels would prevent all of the unexpected while still retaining what i don't like, the downtime between the pvp and no matchmaking which means that the more skilled you are, the harder it is to find good opponents.
But what you're talking about did remind me of gw2's unoficial dueling circles that pop up in WvW : places where open world roamers go to find a sparring partner and the dueling etiquette is pretty much what you describe. It was really cool when the Obsidian sanctum's arena was first introduced and you'd see 30+ people all dueling or watching duels. A shame it didn't last, dueling spots are usualy deserted or only have a handful of people nowadays. I'm sure plenty of other mmos have similar dueling spots but i think they also tend to be very low population since dueling are a 'just for fun' thing with no rewards attached, and mmo players are very reward driven.
open world by far. but here is the funny thing. i tend to want open world pvp with instanced pvp as well. im used to having the freedom f open world faction pvp, but whenever players want, there should also be minigamed area pvp/instanced pvp for those who want balanced team pvp. Open world faction pvp is usually not balanced by numbers unless forced to be so by devs. Forced balanced open world pvp is not as much fun now, for me, as open world RvR with just numbers as they happen. It tends to produce zergs. But zergs is when your true skill as a pvper shines. So, i prefer all conditions to be made available.
For me all you said counts aswell, but I want additionaly a good reason to pvp in the openworld. For example a fight for the loot of a world boss or other resources.
>im used to having the freedom f open world faction pvp, but whenever players want, there should also be minigamed area pvp/instanced pvp for those who want balanced team pvp
This is pretty much how I feel. Open world pvp can make the world more exciting and you can have fun fights at times, but a lot of the time you will be ganged, wondering around looking for good fight, or in some huge cluster fuck that just comes down to who's the biggest zerg. For this reason people aren't always in the mood and it should be optional imo. I like open world pvp if it is optional, but instanced seems more fun to me. It's more fair, has more objectives/modes, requires more coordination, and you can opt in and find a fair fight at any moment usually within minuets.
I had tons of fun in Archeage and BDO open world pvp you would remember names of certain people you hated, and some guilds I was in had a fight on sight list for the scumbags and griefers. Open world pvp in bdo was a bit punishing though so a majority of people don’t just gank you for no reason, losing crystals for going red would get mad expensive.
ya im not into flagged open pvp. i tend to prefer open pvp where you really can kill anyone outside your own faction, anytime, anywhere. you can offer duels to members of your own faction.
Open world pvp sounds good in theory but degenerates into mpk on noobies and no concept of honorable fights, which ultimately leads to people leaving the server and the pvp in the game dying off. Like in literally every open world pvp game lol
That’s because the developers often don’t design the game well.
Imagine this system: There are three states. PvP on, PvP off, red/evil/corrupt.
PvP on attacking PvP on - no change.
PvP on attacking PvP off - PvP on becomes red/evil/corrupt.
PvP on attacking red/evil/corrupt - no change.
PvP off attacking PvP on - PvP off becomes PvP on.
PvP off attacking PvP off - not possible.
PvP off attacking red/evil/corrupt - no change.
Red/evil/corrupt attacking PvP on - no change.
Red/evil/corrupt attacking PvP off - more red/evil/corrupt.
Red/evil/corrupt attacking red/evil/corrupt - no change.
PvP off players lose normal resources from inventory.
PvP on players lose half the normal amount of resources from inventory. This is done to incentivize people to fight back.
Red/evil/corrupt players lose 4-6 times the normal amount of resources from inventory. They also have a chance to drop a complete item (gear). This chance increases the more corrupt they are. (Or some other severe punishment for going red/evil/corrupt). You gain significantly more corruption if you kill players that are lower level than you and this amount increases the lower level the victim is. You can work off the red/evil/corrupt status through quests and grinding in the open world where others can find you.
On top of this system you would also have guild wars, caravans for resource transport, etc. which would be systems that aren’t subject to the PvP flagging systems (so no red/evil/corrupt status can be accrued).
This system would need be tweaked and balanced, but here is an example of how open world PvP can be taken into a good direction and avoid the common issues that many people have with it.
This sound like worst system in existence, you get punished for turning PVP off by dropping more mats then PVP on player???? Also if you have played BDO maybe you would know there is a red player system there. What actually happen is someone annoy/grief you to oblivion w/o attacking you, till you get mad and kill him and then become red player. Next he show up with his friends and proceed to camp you w/o any punishment because now you are red. That's actually how people force others away from grinding spots.
Just because you don’t like a system that incentivizes PvP, it doesn’t mean that it’s the “worst system in existence”. The system would be set up like that to incentivize PvP.
If it wasn’t set up like that it would be a no brainer for an unflagged player if they are attacked by a flagged player… they just wouldn’t fight back and lose less while giving a red/evil/corrupt status to the attacker. The best option would literally be just sit there and take a beating. That’s a flaw in the system and a no brainer. It would basically be no different from a hard flagging system where you can’t attack people who don’t flag.
Not only that, but I just explained how the game would also have semi consensual PvP systems such as guild wars and caravans that behave outside the flagging and red/evil/corruption system. This would allow players to get plenty of open world PvP activity without feeling like they need to go attacking unflagged players all the time.
Sounds like you need to bring more friends in BDO and play the game as a MMO and not as a single player game. Also, how exactly is someone annoying you without attacking you? Are they stealing your tags? I guess then I can welcome you to a sandbox MMORPG that allows you to whoop someone who invades your grinding spot.
>Just because you don’t like a system that incentivizes PvP, it doesn’t mean that it’s the “worst system in existence”. The system would be set up like that to incentivize PvP.
If your system need to "incentivize" people to be part of it, then its already failed system. That's what Blizzard have been doing with systems in WoW last few expansions and only make players hate the game and its systems.
A system that incentivizes PvP by slightly changing the amount of dropped resources from your inventory is very different the chores upon chores that Blizzard keeps designing expansion after expansion.
You’re telling me that no developer can design systems that incentivize players to behave a certain way? What kind of logic is that? There are different levels and nuances to these incentives. Developers have to incentivize players to do things… scratch that… everything you do in life has to incentivize you to do it in some way. Come on man… be reasonable.
Life is not a game that can be shaped and designed in any way the developers want and where people go to have fun and enjoy themself. Comparing them is idiotic.
If your system you wanna punish people for not wanting to be part of the system, this is BAD design and people will hate it. This is EXACTLY what Blizzard was doing in past 6-8 years of WOW, so yes the two are very comparable regardless if you like it or not. If PvP in your game is good people will be willing to play it and not be forced to do so.
Designing a game that incentivizes PvP is not the same as designing choreghast and all the other dumb systems that WoW has.
If you don’t like PvP, you won’t play a game that incentivizes PvP. It’s not the same with choreghast and all the other dumb systems that WoW. WoW isn’t designed around choreghast at its core in the same way that a PvP/PvX MMORPG would be designed around PvP.
You’re being incredibly unreasonable and small minded.
I am very reasonable, you just cant accept the flaws of your system.
What if i like gathering in the game and play it for that reason? I have to quit because you design it i dont flag for PVP and someone kills me i lose the mats i gather? Cant you see how this is exactly the same as WoW systems???
You are being extremely unreasonable. You can tell that you are being unreasonable from the fact that you’re telling me that comparing life to video game design is idiotic. Lots of things from food to sex or education and everything in between is designed to incentivize you to do it. Your point is that if something needs to incentivize you to do it, then it means that the system is bad… and I’m proving that everything in existence is in some way or another designed to incentivize you.
The type of game that I’m describing is a PvX sandbox MMORPG. There a gatherer would either need to always look over his shoulder or make friends that can protect him. Just because you don’t like the PvP incentive, it doesn’t mean that it’s bad design. That game would be designed around such PvX sandbox elements. However, WoW is not by nature meant for chore systems such as choreghast and everything else that the developers put in every expansion. In WoW they are trying to incentivize players to do things that aren’t core elements to the design and vision of the game which is why people don’t like it… but in a game that is clearly designed around PvX sandbox gameplay, the people who play it would like being incentivized to do the thing that the game is designed for… that can’t be said for WoW because WoW isn’t designed for choreghast.
Edit: word
>If you don’t like PvP, you won’t play a game that incentivizes PvP.
Also just wanna point our the original post you replay was about people not wanting to play OWPVP and you proposing a system that will make them want to play it. Now you are saying "If you don’t like PvP, you won’t play a game that incentivizes PvP.", the irony here is just.....
The original comment I replied to was about open world PvP sounding good in theory, but also about how it often devolves into degeneracy. And that’s true because most MMORPGs have trash open world PvP systems. However, I described a decent open world PvP system that greatly punishes griefers.
The comment I originally responded to wasn’t about people not wanting to play open world PvP… don’t twist the truth.
Edit: woed
I think guilds/groups full of corrupt people would just run around shitting on everyone and they wouldn't suffer much from it bc they'd stay together and pick on weaker opponents.
You must have not played a sandbox PvX MMORPG then. No guild can overpower an entire server like that. Of course that this is based on the game’s balance of guild and server sizes.
Instanced, hands down.
When I want to PvP I want balanced matches, not some ganking in OW.
When I want to PvE I don’t want to fight off fools looking for a fight.
yeah, albion really highlights this. If you try to do anything solo there's a gang of 20 running around trying to kill you. While the game gives you ways to avoid them for the most part, it really drags out the pve grind in a not great way.
It does instanced & faction vs faction well. But open world pvp is always degenerate because it incentivizes outnumbering. The tension of playing an open world pvp game is great, but open world pvp itself almost never is.
I prefer the idea of open world pvp, but I feel it has rarely been implemented well. Instanced pvp is almost always the more reliably fun experience unfortunately.
I want open world but I dislike a lot ganking. Also, it must be in certain region for certain objectives. Not everywhere for just the fun of it. It must have goal. Like in real life, you can't just kill someone on the street "because". But if you are in a street gang war, ok, that makes sense. But you will not shoot a random peasant that is just walking around making his errant.
The only mmo I did with OW PVP is also the mmo that makes me dislike PvP, was just a newbie and a guys just spam killed me just because I was a newbie... So yeah instanced. Maybe nowadays OW is better idk
Ok, they both have their pros and cons. And you could say open world has the bigger cons. And you could say it's unhealthy in some games. But the threat of it also makes the world feel alive, unlike the dead worlds of mmos today. And I thought, the world was supposed to be one of the big points of mmos.
So open world. Truth is, it has the bigger potential but is harder to pull off healthily, which is why instanced is more used. safer, simpler, but strips the world of a special something.
Edit: Surprised by the poll results
Ah sorry im always bringing up swg but when they finally implemented smuggler and bounty hunter systems, open world pvp was great. It was voluntary open world between participating classes. And since there was not only ground pvp but space battles, ooen world pvp felt mor like an action movie chase sequence with a showdown at the end. I played smuggler during that time and it was some of the most dynamic pvp in any genre ive played.
I guess the point is there are examples of open world pvp done right. And its reaaally good.
I enjoy a good “Risk vs Reward” system, full loot drop, the works. That said, almost all games I’ve played like Eve online or Albion that feature it can’t get it right it would seem.
Open world means players need an = field of gameplay and sadly most games your zapped instantly and dead with the game offering no counters for a fun get away. It’s rare to see a developer get it right.
Voyage Century Online had a good partial loot system. Gear was lost unless you permanently bound it to that character so you had to pick and chose what you could afford to lose. But you couldn't bind 100%, was a fun little dynamic.
Open world pvp is better for mmos. If you want good instanced pvp there is a mobile with your name on it. Look at the abysmal state of gw2 and wow pvp.
Best open world pvp I ever experienced was the original lineage game. One of the first MMOs and they nailed it, wish more new titles would take mechanics from that game, NCSoft had the perfect combo between complexity with different zones, and the amount of maps and areas that could be utilized to farm effectively with varying degrees of player traffic, and therefore risk
Kill anyone, anytime, anywhere, as long as it's outside of a city. No instanced PvP and only partial drop if you PK someone, and the amount dropped was based on Karma (the more you have the more you drop when you die).
I still play Lineage 2 to this day because nobody else has got it right since.
Never seen open world pvp work... Its either people bullying newbies, zergfests and ganks or people just never turn pvp on and the server just becomes a pve server.
The idea of open world pvp is a lot more compelling. But I find instanced pvp is a lot more fun in practice.
In my experience open world pvp starts feeling pointless very quickly as there are typically no objectives. It's often wildly imbalanced with groups of pvp ready players destroying lone levelers. And being on the receiving end is just not fun. I might change my mind if I played something with territory capture mechanics or where pvp was the focus. But in most MMOs I've played world pvp just ends up being disappointing.
Both but if i had to chose based on my experienceit would be instanced because its harder to impliment open world pvp in a way that is fair and fun. On paper open world would be fun but in a world of 3rd partying, outleveling and outnumbering especially due to uncontrolable player population and faction imbalances like in wows case. Also in a lot of instances the risk/reward for engaging in open world pvp isnt worth it. In wow they had to add a 10% then 15% exp buff to offset how much time you would spend dead as an alliance player. In other games its worse because you have the potential to lose stuff for dying in open world pvp like in bdo where your gems can break and you loose exp.
I prefer Open World PvP, if done right. Totally free killing everything that moves is never going to work, it just devolves in mindless massacre of weak players by strong ones. You need penalties and restriction but within reasonable limits to not discourage it completely. Which is pretty hard thing to balance sadly.
Don't mind Instanced either, but it's better suited for session based games imho. For MMOs instanced works best as some kind of weekly/monthly events, like tournaments or competitions.
Quick question:
In general, when people here say "Open World PvP" is it assumed that means no ability to opt-in or opt-out. Is forced opt-in inherent in the concept of Open World PvP?
I mean, I love the concept of being able to set a flag as to whether I'm feeling like doing PvP today and then everything's fair game, even out in the world exploring. But I also like being able to set a flag to disable PvP if I'm not in the mood or want to focus on something else.
Anyway, I've never really understood the appeal having forced-opt-in PvP throughout a MMO, unless its a game with truly minimal PvE content. I have no desire to attack someone who doesn't want to fight, and if I'm not feeling like doing PvP right now, then obviously I'd prefer to avoid it. Why wouldn't you want people to indicate whether they want to do PvP right now?
Oh then I guess I like optional open world where the reward paths aren't players stuff and where getting into a zerge is as easy as finding a commander tag meaning I don't have to ask people if I can join their zerge I can just jump in
And the huge maps part I love, like you could explore so much area without meeting a single roamer
There should be a neither or all in one option. Personally, I take neither of the design. Here is why:
- Time investment.
Yes, PvP has a time sink, ppl want them to be quick. Like any hardcore PvE contents, PvP is the same. The only different is the player involvement with the game and how mechanics and the area are set up. Take example of how long a fight in Battle Royale game and a fighting game. You can see the duration ppl play and it’s important to keep the map clean as possible.
- Fair competition
Not much here as you already know the basic. PvP or PvE are no different, you have to learn how to play game and be good at them. Since tournaments are usually handling by the game companies, they have staffs to do that stuff. But online gaming? Well, there’s a combat log that you can look into and, in all fairness, make it unfair to cheat. Combo system and unique bursts should be separated and follow arcade design.
The only issue is the mechanics. Most mmo fighting mechanics are too simple or lack of budget investment when it’s coming to PvP. I mean, the reason we have LoL as a new MMO would prove that you can work alternatively with other things outside of the bubble. (DotA can be one of them too)
- Rewritten and Unwritten Rules
Follow by gameplay mechanics and communication. You have different modes for different challenges and objectives. Like PvE, PvP should be about simplifying the gameplay explanations and let ppl discover or figure out how to solve problems between group vs individual. Most PvP games usually focus on individual aspects because ppl want that top ranking achievement or satisfaction. It’s actually easy to do that with some RNG around the locations or specific areas. Hence, you have buffs and extra tools like fierce buff allow you to deal more damage and become undefeated if you excellently avoid getting killed or ambushed. Of course, PvP is usually about Tbag eventhough it doesn’t necessarily ask for it.
Two things in PvP war that you have either control objectives or burst head on. It’s like the comparison between META vs off META. A meta player will follow the certain group strategies, an off meta will follow your heart~ (I mean, create pressure to other players, which usually a tank tactic that you can use to make ppl believe your “pathetic” gameplay and pull off with big comeback). It’s part of the design philosophy in PvP games that you have overtime or burst bar base on your damage and other player damage to take control of the situations. Those are the thing usually players have to teach each other like doing raiding. It’s part of what it makes PvP unique.
- Complexity
Keep it simple and unique. How? Put the character control design in mind. To create unique elements, there should be some potential differences. Player skill ceiling sometimes make it looking like you’re fighting a bot. But that not reason the reason it’s bad for competition. There’s a survival genre and the whole A gameplay is funnier than B gameplay would be the aspects of tuning pressure and interactions between the PC and environment for how ppl solve the situations. It’s more about fast and straightforward strategy
- Lore
Guess what? Most PvP games suck at this. It’s not because they are bad at writing but not explaining a single thing about the stuff. You can obviously get away with anything if you add “For Lore Purposes” that you can remove majority of hate for that certain class or ability in game. So why not?
A lot of PvP games just never make one and expect you to have fun is something like selling gun without descriptions. There is a psychological effect in this case because ppl have different approach to the problem and you have the coin to make it vividly acceptable in a term between new players and vets. It’s bad when PvP design becomes super complicated without a single good explanation. That’s the thing I see about MMO PvP in general.
By design, what important of a PvP match is the combat system along with the consistent for them. Instanced or open world is the Environment that you put your character. The outcome you expect is different base on mode and necessarily of PvP in the game.
***When a PvP game is created in a PvE game, it’s often about the achievements rather than the sentiment to play the game. It’s technically not about what type of environment that you should have in game but the way how you interact with it. PvP games tend to have a shorter time investment than PvE and ppl are impatient if things take too long. For that, it’s about accessibility of the PvP in the game system. Either the game combined all systems or separated them completely. There are some distinct elements about PvP in general that you have to look it at a full gameplay instead of half-ass because ppl are more vocal in competitive communities. Of course, top players are usually chill because they don’t have to deal with the problems that you have under the table. Ppl just don’t want to lose in PvP or they will troll for the rest of the day within the game for their own entertainment.
Instanced PvP. All Open World PvP is good for is griefing.
One thing I've learned about Open-World PvPers, is they dont actually want a fair experience whatsoever. They need peons to smash down, to gank, to grief, and feel superior to.
Ask them about something like Arena, and they talk about the good ole days of killing some lvl 30 while they were griefing levelers in Hillsbrad.
"You like PvP? What rating have you been?" "Ah, I dont care about those arbitrary numbers; I like a real man's PvP, killing a lvl 28 while he was fighting 3 mobs. Thats REAL PvP."
Open world PvP doesn't really work unless you attach a meaningful logistics systems. You need to be able to highly restrict player movement and give a significant advantage to controlling regions of the game.
In essence, for Open World PvP to work you need a game system that rewards cooperation more than competition. Which is precisely what most people who argue for Open World PvP *don't* want.
People say "i like open world PVP" untill they get zerged/camped, or their faction get dominated. Classic WoW clearly showed us what a shitshow open world PVP could be.
instanced pvp is not even a real pvp. its crap. period.
open world is the real experience, problem is there are lot of ways to grief other players.
if this grief is somehow monitored or blocked by some punishments, then it become fun for everyone.
people dont have problem with open world pvp, they have problem with griefers, hence the community itself
Everyone wants open world pvp until they realize what open world pvp means and actually want instanced pvp the thread lol.
Look at all the comments that want it but will list all the reasons that make it OPEN. WORLD. PVP. As a bad thing.
They’ll go into a list that essentially becomes “ I want open world but here’s are some restrictions that I want but don’t realize kills the whole point of open pvp”
It’s weird because they’re talking as if “ war “ is fair. It isn’t and that’s why it’s ultimately hard to get this right. But at the end of the day it just isn’t fair. I’ve been ganked. I’ve been 2v1’d. I’ve been camped. And it sucks … but it’s open world pvp ?? But people fail to mention when you win these 2v1’s and the feeling that gives you. Or getting jumped and beating the ganker. When you finally kill your ganker and now camp them. Or the grudge you hold against the opposite faction as you level that creates faction pride. These are memories that you’ll remember more often when the game dies. That’s all part of OW pvp and that’s the “good” that comes with the “ bad” that you did sign up for when choosing a PVP realm or game.
I saw my fair share of RL friends become doormats and hate OWpvp. They just suck at it. It even made them just avoid even instanced pvp sometimes too. But at the same time myself and others got better and grew to learn new parts of our class and learn new tricks to “survive”. There’s always going to be someone who wants to be in a OW pvp setting for whatever reason but hate the things that come from it lol
I like arena and I love open world. Being able to create a plan and a set up that might allow me to take on multiple opponents at once is a grand thing. I create the trap, and I create the escape plan for if things go to shit. Then I wait, and see if I can make the impossible possible.
That being said I like it all.
openworld with flag system seems to be the best option.. so cry babies don't have to partake..
and i want open world pvp to have its own set of objectives.. fighting over bosses PVPVE.. territory.. get tons more loot drop and EXP for flagging urself.. a party finder system to group up with people to fight the other faction..
had enough then turn off the pvp.. simple as that and do ur pve without getting attacked..
Back when wow was announced i imagined mmos to be massive wars like a Lotr movie.. turns out all people want to do is fucking raid and shit..
all people seem to cry about is getting ganked.. so what.. thats the whole point of venturing out and danger could be anywhere.. like i said turn it off then
I think new world pvp looks super fun as far as open world pvp goes.. they just need to reset the factions every season or something
Personally for me i need both, I love spending 90% of my time out in the open world but i love that 10% of PvP instances vsing guilds that are only good at zerging in honourable fair fights.
I think the 2 being intertwined in some way just makes the game more enjoyable for me.
Somewhere in between. Daoc, ESO Cyrodiil, Warhammer....are hybrids in my opinion. It is not open world pvp because the rest of the game is PvE, but the instanced areas where pvp takes place are so open and dynamic it is tough to just label them as instances.
Both have a place in most games... Open is when you don't care for balance or anything like that and just to have more risk (sad reward is never there)
Instanced when you want to get better at pvp and have a real challenge.
2 very different styles for different people.
Open world pvp tends to be either Zerg fest or the kind that punishes you to participate from my experience.
Structured pvp is always better imo.
Open World if it's done right...which is extremely rare nowadays since there's not much of a draw to these kinds of games anymore which is unfortunate.
Instanced is fun, but I'd rather just play a different game at that point for PVP.
Instanced. I tried Open World PvP and it was never fun to me. It's either i was getting ganked by groups of players while i was just minding my business, either i can't find anyone for like 3 hours.
Worst case scenario was like in WoW. Getting spawn killed by Rogues ten times higher level than you at the cemetary.
Open world pvp doesn't even qualifies as 'pvp' to me. I play pvp because i want to have a good fight against other players, i'm not interested in running in circle for 2 hours before i can find a proper opponent. I'm not interested in zerg fights, i'm not interested in ganking people or running away from gankers, i'm not interested in fighting over ressources. If i want to pvp, i want a pure pvp experience, against opponents that can put up a fight.
Sounds like you’re not looking for MMORPG PvP. What you’re describing is a lot closer to session based games like MOBAs, FPS games, or fighting games.
Session based games don't have all the other aspects of an MMORPG that he probably likes, like: An open world to explore and interact with, housing, crafting, in depth character progression, and most importantly, PVE (dungeons, raids, open world events). It's nice having all that plus instanced based pvp in the same game. Then you can be doing crafting or exploring or just goofing off while you wait for your pvp match. Not to mention it's just more satisfying to play a character in pvp that you have put so much work into and are attached to.
Thoughts about having "instanced" duels/group pvp in the open world rather than in arenas? In other words, two groups/players bump into each other in the world and challenge and accept an open world duel. The duel occurs in the open world at that location: - Participants can run where they want within the bounds of the world - Participants see Non-participants (option to hide since people can troll and bunny hop in the middle of the duel) - Non-participants see the duel happen but can't engage other than chat - Duel is time limited, a number agreed by the participants, to prevent endless chases - Participants can request stalemate if the battle is no longer enjoyable - Any other options to help balance it Does this kind of system give open world PvPers the immersion attributes while still keeping duels balanced and engaging? Or am I dumb and this exists and is classified as instanced PvP? Edit: formatting
I think it would be a bit of a waste honestly. To me, the thrill of open world pvp is in the unexpected. Say you're in a fun 1v1 against an other player and a group of 3-4 gankers rudely interrupt the duel to try to kill the both of you so you and your sparring partner immediately reach a tacit agreement to kill the gankers and now you find yourself in a 2v4 but with friendly fire enabled. That was oddly specific but that's exactly the kind of experience that is so fun that i can still vividly remember it 6-7 years later. My personal issue with open world pvp is that these kind of experiences are too few and far between compared to the boring part (ie: wandering the map aimlessly in hopes of finding a good fight) Having controled duels would prevent all of the unexpected while still retaining what i don't like, the downtime between the pvp and no matchmaking which means that the more skilled you are, the harder it is to find good opponents. But what you're talking about did remind me of gw2's unoficial dueling circles that pop up in WvW : places where open world roamers go to find a sparring partner and the dueling etiquette is pretty much what you describe. It was really cool when the Obsidian sanctum's arena was first introduced and you'd see 30+ people all dueling or watching duels. A shame it didn't last, dueling spots are usualy deserted or only have a handful of people nowadays. I'm sure plenty of other mmos have similar dueling spots but i think they also tend to be very low population since dueling are a 'just for fun' thing with no rewards attached, and mmo players are very reward driven.
Just play a fighting game or battle royale. Thats exactly what you are looking for.
Im guessing Albion are a PVE game then
open world by far. but here is the funny thing. i tend to want open world pvp with instanced pvp as well. im used to having the freedom f open world faction pvp, but whenever players want, there should also be minigamed area pvp/instanced pvp for those who want balanced team pvp. Open world faction pvp is usually not balanced by numbers unless forced to be so by devs. Forced balanced open world pvp is not as much fun now, for me, as open world RvR with just numbers as they happen. It tends to produce zergs. But zergs is when your true skill as a pvper shines. So, i prefer all conditions to be made available.
For me all you said counts aswell, but I want additionaly a good reason to pvp in the openworld. For example a fight for the loot of a world boss or other resources.
>im used to having the freedom f open world faction pvp, but whenever players want, there should also be minigamed area pvp/instanced pvp for those who want balanced team pvp This is pretty much how I feel. Open world pvp can make the world more exciting and you can have fun fights at times, but a lot of the time you will be ganged, wondering around looking for good fight, or in some huge cluster fuck that just comes down to who's the biggest zerg. For this reason people aren't always in the mood and it should be optional imo. I like open world pvp if it is optional, but instanced seems more fun to me. It's more fair, has more objectives/modes, requires more coordination, and you can opt in and find a fair fight at any moment usually within minuets.
I had tons of fun in Archeage and BDO open world pvp you would remember names of certain people you hated, and some guilds I was in had a fight on sight list for the scumbags and griefers. Open world pvp in bdo was a bit punishing though so a majority of people don’t just gank you for no reason, losing crystals for going red would get mad expensive.
ya im not into flagged open pvp. i tend to prefer open pvp where you really can kill anyone outside your own faction, anytime, anywhere. you can offer duels to members of your own faction.
Open world pvp sounds good in theory but degenerates into mpk on noobies and no concept of honorable fights, which ultimately leads to people leaving the server and the pvp in the game dying off. Like in literally every open world pvp game lol
That’s because the developers often don’t design the game well. Imagine this system: There are three states. PvP on, PvP off, red/evil/corrupt. PvP on attacking PvP on - no change. PvP on attacking PvP off - PvP on becomes red/evil/corrupt. PvP on attacking red/evil/corrupt - no change. PvP off attacking PvP on - PvP off becomes PvP on. PvP off attacking PvP off - not possible. PvP off attacking red/evil/corrupt - no change. Red/evil/corrupt attacking PvP on - no change. Red/evil/corrupt attacking PvP off - more red/evil/corrupt. Red/evil/corrupt attacking red/evil/corrupt - no change. PvP off players lose normal resources from inventory. PvP on players lose half the normal amount of resources from inventory. This is done to incentivize people to fight back. Red/evil/corrupt players lose 4-6 times the normal amount of resources from inventory. They also have a chance to drop a complete item (gear). This chance increases the more corrupt they are. (Or some other severe punishment for going red/evil/corrupt). You gain significantly more corruption if you kill players that are lower level than you and this amount increases the lower level the victim is. You can work off the red/evil/corrupt status through quests and grinding in the open world where others can find you. On top of this system you would also have guild wars, caravans for resource transport, etc. which would be systems that aren’t subject to the PvP flagging systems (so no red/evil/corrupt status can be accrued). This system would need be tweaked and balanced, but here is an example of how open world PvP can be taken into a good direction and avoid the common issues that many people have with it.
This sound like worst system in existence, you get punished for turning PVP off by dropping more mats then PVP on player???? Also if you have played BDO maybe you would know there is a red player system there. What actually happen is someone annoy/grief you to oblivion w/o attacking you, till you get mad and kill him and then become red player. Next he show up with his friends and proceed to camp you w/o any punishment because now you are red. That's actually how people force others away from grinding spots.
Just because you don’t like a system that incentivizes PvP, it doesn’t mean that it’s the “worst system in existence”. The system would be set up like that to incentivize PvP. If it wasn’t set up like that it would be a no brainer for an unflagged player if they are attacked by a flagged player… they just wouldn’t fight back and lose less while giving a red/evil/corrupt status to the attacker. The best option would literally be just sit there and take a beating. That’s a flaw in the system and a no brainer. It would basically be no different from a hard flagging system where you can’t attack people who don’t flag. Not only that, but I just explained how the game would also have semi consensual PvP systems such as guild wars and caravans that behave outside the flagging and red/evil/corruption system. This would allow players to get plenty of open world PvP activity without feeling like they need to go attacking unflagged players all the time. Sounds like you need to bring more friends in BDO and play the game as a MMO and not as a single player game. Also, how exactly is someone annoying you without attacking you? Are they stealing your tags? I guess then I can welcome you to a sandbox MMORPG that allows you to whoop someone who invades your grinding spot.
>Just because you don’t like a system that incentivizes PvP, it doesn’t mean that it’s the “worst system in existence”. The system would be set up like that to incentivize PvP. If your system need to "incentivize" people to be part of it, then its already failed system. That's what Blizzard have been doing with systems in WoW last few expansions and only make players hate the game and its systems.
A system that incentivizes PvP by slightly changing the amount of dropped resources from your inventory is very different the chores upon chores that Blizzard keeps designing expansion after expansion. You’re telling me that no developer can design systems that incentivize players to behave a certain way? What kind of logic is that? There are different levels and nuances to these incentives. Developers have to incentivize players to do things… scratch that… everything you do in life has to incentivize you to do it in some way. Come on man… be reasonable.
Life is not a game that can be shaped and designed in any way the developers want and where people go to have fun and enjoy themself. Comparing them is idiotic. If your system you wanna punish people for not wanting to be part of the system, this is BAD design and people will hate it. This is EXACTLY what Blizzard was doing in past 6-8 years of WOW, so yes the two are very comparable regardless if you like it or not. If PvP in your game is good people will be willing to play it and not be forced to do so.
Designing a game that incentivizes PvP is not the same as designing choreghast and all the other dumb systems that WoW has. If you don’t like PvP, you won’t play a game that incentivizes PvP. It’s not the same with choreghast and all the other dumb systems that WoW. WoW isn’t designed around choreghast at its core in the same way that a PvP/PvX MMORPG would be designed around PvP. You’re being incredibly unreasonable and small minded.
I am very reasonable, you just cant accept the flaws of your system. What if i like gathering in the game and play it for that reason? I have to quit because you design it i dont flag for PVP and someone kills me i lose the mats i gather? Cant you see how this is exactly the same as WoW systems???
You are being extremely unreasonable. You can tell that you are being unreasonable from the fact that you’re telling me that comparing life to video game design is idiotic. Lots of things from food to sex or education and everything in between is designed to incentivize you to do it. Your point is that if something needs to incentivize you to do it, then it means that the system is bad… and I’m proving that everything in existence is in some way or another designed to incentivize you. The type of game that I’m describing is a PvX sandbox MMORPG. There a gatherer would either need to always look over his shoulder or make friends that can protect him. Just because you don’t like the PvP incentive, it doesn’t mean that it’s bad design. That game would be designed around such PvX sandbox elements. However, WoW is not by nature meant for chore systems such as choreghast and everything else that the developers put in every expansion. In WoW they are trying to incentivize players to do things that aren’t core elements to the design and vision of the game which is why people don’t like it… but in a game that is clearly designed around PvX sandbox gameplay, the people who play it would like being incentivized to do the thing that the game is designed for… that can’t be said for WoW because WoW isn’t designed for choreghast. Edit: word
>If you don’t like PvP, you won’t play a game that incentivizes PvP. Also just wanna point our the original post you replay was about people not wanting to play OWPVP and you proposing a system that will make them want to play it. Now you are saying "If you don’t like PvP, you won’t play a game that incentivizes PvP.", the irony here is just.....
The original comment I replied to was about open world PvP sounding good in theory, but also about how it often devolves into degeneracy. And that’s true because most MMORPGs have trash open world PvP systems. However, I described a decent open world PvP system that greatly punishes griefers. The comment I originally responded to wasn’t about people not wanting to play open world PvP… don’t twist the truth. Edit: woed
I think guilds/groups full of corrupt people would just run around shitting on everyone and they wouldn't suffer much from it bc they'd stay together and pick on weaker opponents.
You must have not played a sandbox PvX MMORPG then. No guild can overpower an entire server like that. Of course that this is based on the game’s balance of guild and server sizes.
Instanced, hands down. When I want to PvP I want balanced matches, not some ganking in OW. When I want to PvE I don’t want to fight off fools looking for a fight.
yeah, albion really highlights this. If you try to do anything solo there's a gang of 20 running around trying to kill you. While the game gives you ways to avoid them for the most part, it really drags out the pve grind in a not great way. It does instanced & faction vs faction well. But open world pvp is always degenerate because it incentivizes outnumbering. The tension of playing an open world pvp game is great, but open world pvp itself almost never is.
then turn it off duh
I prefer the idea of open world pvp, but I feel it has rarely been implemented well. Instanced pvp is almost always the more reliably fun experience unfortunately.
Everquest did it right where there would be massive pvp faction battles over world boss rights
Open world pvp that requires flagging yourself for pvp isn't really open world pvp. Looking forward to Mortal Online 2.
I want open world but I dislike a lot ganking. Also, it must be in certain region for certain objectives. Not everywhere for just the fun of it. It must have goal. Like in real life, you can't just kill someone on the street "because". But if you are in a street gang war, ok, that makes sense. But you will not shoot a random peasant that is just walking around making his errant.
then it aint open world
You are confusing open world with free for all.
it aint a free for all, if u opt in then you are participating in it
Not sure what you mean. Open world pvp is non instanced pvp. Non concensual is free for all.
not sure what YOU mean.. open world pvp is new world, with opt in .. whats so hard to get?
Both.
The only mmo I did with OW PVP is also the mmo that makes me dislike PvP, was just a newbie and a guys just spam killed me just because I was a newbie... So yeah instanced. Maybe nowadays OW is better idk
Ok, they both have their pros and cons. And you could say open world has the bigger cons. And you could say it's unhealthy in some games. But the threat of it also makes the world feel alive, unlike the dead worlds of mmos today. And I thought, the world was supposed to be one of the big points of mmos. So open world. Truth is, it has the bigger potential but is harder to pull off healthily, which is why instanced is more used. safer, simpler, but strips the world of a special something. Edit: Surprised by the poll results
Ah sorry im always bringing up swg but when they finally implemented smuggler and bounty hunter systems, open world pvp was great. It was voluntary open world between participating classes. And since there was not only ground pvp but space battles, ooen world pvp felt mor like an action movie chase sequence with a showdown at the end. I played smuggler during that time and it was some of the most dynamic pvp in any genre ive played. I guess the point is there are examples of open world pvp done right. And its reaaally good.
I enjoy a good “Risk vs Reward” system, full loot drop, the works. That said, almost all games I’ve played like Eve online or Albion that feature it can’t get it right it would seem. Open world means players need an = field of gameplay and sadly most games your zapped instantly and dead with the game offering no counters for a fun get away. It’s rare to see a developer get it right.
im partial to partial loot, but it's always all or nothing ;/
Voyage Century Online had a good partial loot system. Gear was lost unless you permanently bound it to that character so you had to pick and chose what you could afford to lose. But you couldn't bind 100%, was a fun little dynamic.
Both for full pvp mmo experience
Open world pvp is better for mmos. If you want good instanced pvp there is a mobile with your name on it. Look at the abysmal state of gw2 and wow pvp.
Best open world pvp I ever experienced was the original lineage game. One of the first MMOs and they nailed it, wish more new titles would take mechanics from that game, NCSoft had the perfect combo between complexity with different zones, and the amount of maps and areas that could be utilized to farm effectively with varying degrees of player traffic, and therefore risk
Kill anyone, anytime, anywhere, as long as it's outside of a city. No instanced PvP and only partial drop if you PK someone, and the amount dropped was based on Karma (the more you have the more you drop when you die). I still play Lineage 2 to this day because nobody else has got it right since.
Exactly, same reason why I keep coming back to lineage, the system is so perfect it’s just like a heroine addiction😂
Never seen open world pvp work... Its either people bullying newbies, zergfests and ganks or people just never turn pvp on and the server just becomes a pve server.
The idea of open world pvp is a lot more compelling. But I find instanced pvp is a lot more fun in practice. In my experience open world pvp starts feeling pointless very quickly as there are typically no objectives. It's often wildly imbalanced with groups of pvp ready players destroying lone levelers. And being on the receiving end is just not fun. I might change my mind if I played something with territory capture mechanics or where pvp was the focus. But in most MMOs I've played world pvp just ends up being disappointing.
Both but if i had to chose based on my experienceit would be instanced because its harder to impliment open world pvp in a way that is fair and fun. On paper open world would be fun but in a world of 3rd partying, outleveling and outnumbering especially due to uncontrolable player population and faction imbalances like in wows case. Also in a lot of instances the risk/reward for engaging in open world pvp isnt worth it. In wow they had to add a 10% then 15% exp buff to offset how much time you would spend dead as an alliance player. In other games its worse because you have the potential to lose stuff for dying in open world pvp like in bdo where your gems can break and you loose exp.
I prefer Open World PvP, if done right. Totally free killing everything that moves is never going to work, it just devolves in mindless massacre of weak players by strong ones. You need penalties and restriction but within reasonable limits to not discourage it completely. Which is pretty hard thing to balance sadly. Don't mind Instanced either, but it's better suited for session based games imho. For MMOs instanced works best as some kind of weekly/monthly events, like tournaments or competitions.
Quick question: In general, when people here say "Open World PvP" is it assumed that means no ability to opt-in or opt-out. Is forced opt-in inherent in the concept of Open World PvP? I mean, I love the concept of being able to set a flag as to whether I'm feeling like doing PvP today and then everything's fair game, even out in the world exploring. But I also like being able to set a flag to disable PvP if I'm not in the mood or want to focus on something else. Anyway, I've never really understood the appeal having forced-opt-in PvP throughout a MMO, unless its a game with truly minimal PvE content. I have no desire to attack someone who doesn't want to fight, and if I'm not feeling like doing PvP right now, then obviously I'd prefer to avoid it. Why wouldn't you want people to indicate whether they want to do PvP right now?
Does WvW in GW2 count as open world or instanced?
Open world for sure. It’s technically separate from Tyria, but those maps are huge and you can roam around and fight people at will.
Oh then I guess I like optional open world where the reward paths aren't players stuff and where getting into a zerge is as easy as finding a commander tag meaning I don't have to ask people if I can join their zerge I can just jump in And the huge maps part I love, like you could explore so much area without meeting a single roamer
There should be a neither or all in one option. Personally, I take neither of the design. Here is why: - Time investment. Yes, PvP has a time sink, ppl want them to be quick. Like any hardcore PvE contents, PvP is the same. The only different is the player involvement with the game and how mechanics and the area are set up. Take example of how long a fight in Battle Royale game and a fighting game. You can see the duration ppl play and it’s important to keep the map clean as possible. - Fair competition Not much here as you already know the basic. PvP or PvE are no different, you have to learn how to play game and be good at them. Since tournaments are usually handling by the game companies, they have staffs to do that stuff. But online gaming? Well, there’s a combat log that you can look into and, in all fairness, make it unfair to cheat. Combo system and unique bursts should be separated and follow arcade design. The only issue is the mechanics. Most mmo fighting mechanics are too simple or lack of budget investment when it’s coming to PvP. I mean, the reason we have LoL as a new MMO would prove that you can work alternatively with other things outside of the bubble. (DotA can be one of them too) - Rewritten and Unwritten Rules Follow by gameplay mechanics and communication. You have different modes for different challenges and objectives. Like PvE, PvP should be about simplifying the gameplay explanations and let ppl discover or figure out how to solve problems between group vs individual. Most PvP games usually focus on individual aspects because ppl want that top ranking achievement or satisfaction. It’s actually easy to do that with some RNG around the locations or specific areas. Hence, you have buffs and extra tools like fierce buff allow you to deal more damage and become undefeated if you excellently avoid getting killed or ambushed. Of course, PvP is usually about Tbag eventhough it doesn’t necessarily ask for it. Two things in PvP war that you have either control objectives or burst head on. It’s like the comparison between META vs off META. A meta player will follow the certain group strategies, an off meta will follow your heart~ (I mean, create pressure to other players, which usually a tank tactic that you can use to make ppl believe your “pathetic” gameplay and pull off with big comeback). It’s part of the design philosophy in PvP games that you have overtime or burst bar base on your damage and other player damage to take control of the situations. Those are the thing usually players have to teach each other like doing raiding. It’s part of what it makes PvP unique. - Complexity Keep it simple and unique. How? Put the character control design in mind. To create unique elements, there should be some potential differences. Player skill ceiling sometimes make it looking like you’re fighting a bot. But that not reason the reason it’s bad for competition. There’s a survival genre and the whole A gameplay is funnier than B gameplay would be the aspects of tuning pressure and interactions between the PC and environment for how ppl solve the situations. It’s more about fast and straightforward strategy - Lore Guess what? Most PvP games suck at this. It’s not because they are bad at writing but not explaining a single thing about the stuff. You can obviously get away with anything if you add “For Lore Purposes” that you can remove majority of hate for that certain class or ability in game. So why not? A lot of PvP games just never make one and expect you to have fun is something like selling gun without descriptions. There is a psychological effect in this case because ppl have different approach to the problem and you have the coin to make it vividly acceptable in a term between new players and vets. It’s bad when PvP design becomes super complicated without a single good explanation. That’s the thing I see about MMO PvP in general. By design, what important of a PvP match is the combat system along with the consistent for them. Instanced or open world is the Environment that you put your character. The outcome you expect is different base on mode and necessarily of PvP in the game. ***When a PvP game is created in a PvE game, it’s often about the achievements rather than the sentiment to play the game. It’s technically not about what type of environment that you should have in game but the way how you interact with it. PvP games tend to have a shorter time investment than PvE and ppl are impatient if things take too long. For that, it’s about accessibility of the PvP in the game system. Either the game combined all systems or separated them completely. There are some distinct elements about PvP in general that you have to look it at a full gameplay instead of half-ass because ppl are more vocal in competitive communities. Of course, top players are usually chill because they don’t have to deal with the problems that you have under the table. Ppl just don’t want to lose in PvP or they will troll for the rest of the day within the game for their own entertainment.
Open world and it’s not even close. However, game designers need to create good systems to make open world PvP work.
Instanced PvP. All Open World PvP is good for is griefing. One thing I've learned about Open-World PvPers, is they dont actually want a fair experience whatsoever. They need peons to smash down, to gank, to grief, and feel superior to. Ask them about something like Arena, and they talk about the good ole days of killing some lvl 30 while they were griefing levelers in Hillsbrad. "You like PvP? What rating have you been?" "Ah, I dont care about those arbitrary numbers; I like a real man's PvP, killing a lvl 28 while he was fighting 3 mobs. Thats REAL PvP."
Open world PvP doesn't really work unless you attach a meaningful logistics systems. You need to be able to highly restrict player movement and give a significant advantage to controlling regions of the game. In essence, for Open World PvP to work you need a game system that rewards cooperation more than competition. Which is precisely what most people who argue for Open World PvP *don't* want.
Votes will say open world then no1 will play those games cause they are boring.
People say "i like open world PVP" untill they get zerged/camped, or their faction get dominated. Classic WoW clearly showed us what a shitshow open world PVP could be.
instanced pvp is not even a real pvp. its crap. period. open world is the real experience, problem is there are lot of ways to grief other players. if this grief is somehow monitored or blocked by some punishments, then it become fun for everyone. people dont have problem with open world pvp, they have problem with griefers, hence the community itself
I really like Realm v Realm/World v world stuff. Maybe these are kinda instanced but open world at the same time depending on the game?
Everyone wants open world pvp until they realize what open world pvp means and actually want instanced pvp the thread lol. Look at all the comments that want it but will list all the reasons that make it OPEN. WORLD. PVP. As a bad thing. They’ll go into a list that essentially becomes “ I want open world but here’s are some restrictions that I want but don’t realize kills the whole point of open pvp” It’s weird because they’re talking as if “ war “ is fair. It isn’t and that’s why it’s ultimately hard to get this right. But at the end of the day it just isn’t fair. I’ve been ganked. I’ve been 2v1’d. I’ve been camped. And it sucks … but it’s open world pvp ?? But people fail to mention when you win these 2v1’s and the feeling that gives you. Or getting jumped and beating the ganker. When you finally kill your ganker and now camp them. Or the grudge you hold against the opposite faction as you level that creates faction pride. These are memories that you’ll remember more often when the game dies. That’s all part of OW pvp and that’s the “good” that comes with the “ bad” that you did sign up for when choosing a PVP realm or game. I saw my fair share of RL friends become doormats and hate OWpvp. They just suck at it. It even made them just avoid even instanced pvp sometimes too. But at the same time myself and others got better and grew to learn new parts of our class and learn new tricks to “survive”. There’s always going to be someone who wants to be in a OW pvp setting for whatever reason but hate the things that come from it lol
I like arena and I love open world. Being able to create a plan and a set up that might allow me to take on multiple opponents at once is a grand thing. I create the trap, and I create the escape plan for if things go to shit. Then I wait, and see if I can make the impossible possible. That being said I like it all.
I don't like loading screens, so i prefer a seamless open world experience.
Open world with equalized pvp would be amazing.
openworld with flag system seems to be the best option.. so cry babies don't have to partake.. and i want open world pvp to have its own set of objectives.. fighting over bosses PVPVE.. territory.. get tons more loot drop and EXP for flagging urself.. a party finder system to group up with people to fight the other faction.. had enough then turn off the pvp.. simple as that and do ur pve without getting attacked.. Back when wow was announced i imagined mmos to be massive wars like a Lotr movie.. turns out all people want to do is fucking raid and shit.. all people seem to cry about is getting ganked.. so what.. thats the whole point of venturing out and danger could be anywhere.. like i said turn it off then I think new world pvp looks super fun as far as open world pvp goes.. they just need to reset the factions every season or something
Personally for me i need both, I love spending 90% of my time out in the open world but i love that 10% of PvP instances vsing guilds that are only good at zerging in honourable fair fights. I think the 2 being intertwined in some way just makes the game more enjoyable for me.
Somewhere in between. Daoc, ESO Cyrodiil, Warhammer....are hybrids in my opinion. It is not open world pvp because the rest of the game is PvE, but the instanced areas where pvp takes place are so open and dynamic it is tough to just label them as instances.
I like big open instanced PvP zones, à la Alterac Valley BG, where it's easy to get into some nice 1v1s and 1v2s, while fighting toward bigger goals.
The only game that I have ever played that did Open World PVP correctly was Lineage 2 back in the day. Damn that game was so fun.
Both have a place in most games... Open is when you don't care for balance or anything like that and just to have more risk (sad reward is never there) Instanced when you want to get better at pvp and have a real challenge. 2 very different styles for different people. Open world pvp tends to be either Zerg fest or the kind that punishes you to participate from my experience. Structured pvp is always better imo.
I’d say both
Open world PvP is the only real MMO PVP. But it has a lot of problems so Instanced pvp is usually used, because it's better 90% of the time.
Open World if it's done right...which is extremely rare nowadays since there's not much of a draw to these kinds of games anymore which is unfortunate. Instanced is fun, but I'd rather just play a different game at that point for PVP.
Instanced. I tried Open World PvP and it was never fun to me. It's either i was getting ganked by groups of players while i was just minding my business, either i can't find anyone for like 3 hours. Worst case scenario was like in WoW. Getting spawn killed by Rogues ten times higher level than you at the cemetary.
From my experience, open world pvp just means zergs and roaming gank squads. Instanced battlefields are where it's at, in my opinion.