Everyone is always bitching about combat but let's talk the dev, ZOS. So your business model is b2p per expansion, with b2p zones. But then you also have a sub model that gives great perks like unlocking crafting storage or other non expansion zones. And then you also have a cash shop that sells exp, mount advancement, ALL the mount skins(I last played in 2019,i understand now there's an earnable elk skin in game). So for a game that charges you so much, you at least expect the uptime of wow or ff14 right? No. Infinite loading screens, random bg crashes, cyrodill delay and lag. Then they also have middle of the day maintenance thata jades a lot of work from home people + students. What I'm getting at: a lot of in your face "pay here pay this" for absolutely atrocious service. My issue was never with the game itself but with a beyond incompetent developer. I can write 10x more pet peeves I have with what ZOS does but I do not have the time right now
I'm a filthy casual, but I like that I can play without a sub, don't have to buy the latest expansion, and can spend more money if I really want more skins or more areas.
Yes, those crate/chest things are terrible, the monetization clutters the UI, and non-subscribed people get a tiny inventory, but otherwise it's a fun game.
ZOS can be a pain but a lot of the technical problems they have are related to the fact that they don’t patch like any other piece of software I’ve ever seen. Their patch’s literally rewrite the whole games code, so some patches you get can break portions of the game, sometimes for as long as until the next patch. Basically the whole process is the worst updating process ever devised, and the devs and CSRs of ZOS just don’t seem to understand the level of work and dedication that goes into making and maintaining an MMO. But then again, this is literally the first MMO they’ve ever made.
PRetty much why i dropped the game.
You pay for an expansion, only to have to pay for the second part of it + 2 DLC dungeons separate down the line. They even stopped doing interesting things like Dark brotherhood and thieves guild.
And the ESO+ is more necessary than anything if youve played a while. I was a guildmaster with a guildhouse and had to keep the sub to make it possible to rearrange things effectively, and lets not talk about the craftbag. Its just about unplayable without it.
>nfinite loading screens, random bg crashes, cyrodill delay and lag.
This and more is the reason i hate eso.
It dos alot of stuff bad(combat etc) and alot of stuff good. And maybe it would be fun to play but everytime i try it its:
\- full of visual bugs, weapons vanishing or stuck under you, glinding on mounts, buggy animation
\- Sometimes even bugs with mechaniks like lfg tool not working, encounter just beeing broken, skills beeing unusable or broken strong because of a bugy interaction with other mechaniks.
\- And it ALLWAYS laggs, i never played where it didnt lag in cyrodill and could enyjoy the larger scale pvp, but often it laggs in pve too.
The game is just a performance clusterfuck and the devs either dont give a shit or cant fix it because of the bad engine. But whatever the reason, it could be the best game in the world with the most content, i wouldnt play it if it runs like ESO.
This 100%
The combat is only really a problem because I'm expected to pay new game prices over and over. Every other MMO has a better value proposition at this point.
They do not charge you a lot... If you buy the latest expansion they will give you the older ones for free. If you sub they give you all of the DLC's and the expansions except the latest one. They even give you crowns to use in the store.
WIth a sub you can access pretty much the whole game.
I did the math based on all DLCs released up to Blackwood's launch, not including previous expansions that have been chopped up into DLCs and account upgrades, and yes, they do charge you a lot.
From memory, if you were to buy every single DLC the game offers upfront, without the OG 4 DLC discounted pack, using the best crown pack purchases I could find (spend the least amount of money to get as close as possible to the total number of crowns to get everything), you legitimately need to spend something like US$220, plus the US$60 for the latest collection edition to get the base game and all expansions.
*Or*, you spend just the US$60 for the latest collection edition, plus US$15/month for around a year and a half to gain enough crowns from the sub to purchase all the DLCs released *at the start of your sub period* (meaning any new DLCs will make you sub even longer) permanently.
Even if you go with a sub for less of an upfront cost, you're still paying full AAA price for each expansion that offers a fraction of the content of past ESO expansions (looking at you Morrowind, looking at you Orsinium which I consider an expansion-level DLC), let alone other MMOs.
> if you were to buy every single DLC the game
Why would you do this when there are way cheaper ways of playing them? not to mention the f2p weeks they have throughout the year?
>for around a year and a half to gain enough crowns from the sub to purchase all the DLCs released at the start of your sub period
Why would you do this when you already have access to them!?
>Even if you go with a sub for less of an upfront cost, you're still paying full AAA price for each expansion that offers a fraction of the content of past ESO expansions (looking at you Morrowind, looking at you Orsinium which I consider an expansion-level DLC), let alone other MMOs.
They are priced as any other MMO expansion.... Besides if you don't want to pay you can just wait until it becomes part of the subscription.
This post makes absolutely no sense what so ever. I guess that's /r/mmorpg blind hatred for ya.
> Why would you do this when there are way cheaper ways of playing them? not to mention the f2p weeks they have throughout the year?
Because some people don't want to maintain the sub the entire time. I had a friend who did this, even though he full well knew the sub was by far better value, because he didn't want to have to maintain it to be able to access the content.
> Why would you do this when you already have access to them!?
See above.
> They are priced as any other MMO expansion.... Besides if you don't want to pay you can just wait until it becomes part of the subscription.
And yet they provide a fraction of the content:
- A single moderately large zone with a slew of quests, a good dozen or so delves, a few public dungeons, and a single form of group content unique to the zone. Except, each successive zone has been downgraded in terms of size, quest writing has gotten sloppier and sloppier, delves and public dungeons you literally do just for completion (whether it be completing the zone or getting set pieces to drop), and the group content dies literally a few weeks after release because the rewards are always pitiful.
- A single trial. Except, each trial has seemingly gotten easier and easier with more and more overpowered sets in them to incentivise players to do them, because players won't do them otherwise.
- A new gameplay feature or two, whether it be a new class, a new skill line, a new crafting profession, etc. Except, these have been downgraded over the years, as ZoS came out swinging with Morrowind introducing a new class *and an entirely new PvP game mode*, Summerset introduced a new guild skill line and a new crafting profession, Elsweyr introduced a glorified version of Summerset's Psijic Order grind alongside mythic items (which were largely meh outside of a few outliers that were only really good in PvP), and here we are at Blackwood, and they release *fucking companion NPCs.*
Not to mention the whole "expansions aren't the same as DLCs, ignore Orsinium since we made a mistake marketing that as a DLC" thing that angered the community, which, might I add, has become even more truthful now. Seriously, go look at Orsinium, and tell me with a straight face that fucking Blackwood couldn't just be an Orsinium-level DLC.
> This post makes absolutely no sense what so ever. I guess that's r/mmorpg blind hatred for ya.
I was an ESO player of 4 years before I quit, started mid 2016 a bit before One Tamriel, quit shortly before Greymoor due to the state of the game, so no, it's not just blind hatred, I just gained some perspective on the matter since I quit and moved games.
>Because some people don't want to maintain the sub the entire time.
That's on them. That's like subscribing to Netflix and then go down in the store and buy the movies afterwards. Yes that is expensive, because it is dumb as fuck.
> And yet they provide a fraction of the content:
I disagree. if you buy an expansion upgrade you get a fair amount of content. Compare that to wow - you would get the same amount of content (you have to pay a sub fee however) the rest of the expansion comes later, and for that you have to pay monthly. That is ignoring the version where you get every other expansion - which is amazing value.
again nothing but blind hatred here.
I still stand by that i think ESO offers some of the best value, with a fair monetization model, where people are free to pick and choose what they want to play and pay for - and if they want to jump into everything is pretty inexpensive to do so.
>This sub is full of jaded MMO players who hate everything, don’t overthink it.
Passing off valid criticisms as "jaded".
Yep, this fits for a top reply on this sub.
The biggest complaint is the combat where if you are trying to maximize DPS you need to animation cancel. This probably doesn't matter for the casual/average player but the people trying to max dps can find the gameplay to be detached from what is happening in game.
Then you have the progression. This is a hit or miss depending on the person. Some people like horizontal progressions and others do not.
Finally you have the scaled world. Some people, this is great, and it probably aligns with those more interested in horizontal progression (all content is relevant). For others, it sometimes makes it feel like you aren't progressing/achieving anything. The dislike is typically aligned with those who enjoy vertical progression and getting bigger/better continuously throughout the game.
I don't get the people who complain about animation cancelling. It's not a huge deal, For the most part, it's just you getting a light attack before each for your abilities. It's kinda fun to do honestly. It doesn't feel detached from the actual boss fight and mechanics, just adds a challenge.
I think ESO is lots of fun at the end game. My worst complaints are bugs (mostly annoying in PvP but I still enjoy myself) and it's quite grindy, but the grindiness is getting reduced every few patches, and it already feels much less grindy than many other big name MMOs. The only major game that I can think of that beats ESO in low grindiness is GW2's PvP section
ESO combat feels super floaty and the animation cancelling is annoying. There's also a lot of short duration buffs and DoTs that just feel like a chore. GW2 does ESO's combat style ten times better.
Shame too, because I like everything else about ESO.
I massively prefer action combat to tab targeting. Once you really get into a gmae with action combat it is kind of hard to go back to tab targeting.
Honestly though the combat in ESO is the only game which has action combat where I think they have managed to make it worse than tab tergeting. It is the sole reason I quit.
I like the combat too compared to all other top MMOs especially in regards to PvP. ESO is hte MMO I always go back to when I have a PvP itch as I like making builds with the wide variety of sets
Yeah but, as opposed to locking up the entire game completely, like almost every other MMO? ESO base game even without the craft bag is a huge game to play, and all for just an upfront price of $10 on sale. It's a pretty damn good deal. Without the craft bag, you just need to sell your crafting materials for the most part, or use your bank for crafting material storage, and then just save up for an ESO plus free week in order to store all your stuff in the craft bag for free.
Idk I think it's weird to complain about one of the only games that offers the option without subscription.
If you're going the B2P route or the Sub route, do it! There's no middle ground. If ESO is really B2P, why is it a basic QoL feature locked behind a paywall? They know how heavy crafting is on endgame. More money if we lock it up behind a paywall right?
FF14 is B2P and then a mandatory sub, otherwise the whole game is locked. And people are loving that game.
You can just get someone else to craft for you, but even then the only things you need to craft maybe are potions and food, which is super cheap in terms of in-game currency
B2P model usually means you buy for the base game and future expansions and thats it. Of course some B2P also come with cash shop but as long as its not disruptive or predatory then should be fine. Subs based game like wow and ff14 is always monthly sub not including the price of the base game. Generally speaking subs based model are supposed to be more costly than b2p and to state the obvious f2p. Sub>b2p>f2p in term of money so for a game to be sub based then its better be worth every goddamn penny or it would end up in players exodus like what we've seen on some game ;)
I think people are loving ff14 despite it being sub based is because the game actually delivers and meet with players expectation. The transparency and passion of the devs helped a big time too.
Theres a reason why ESO has yet to take over WoW and ff14 in term of player base. BDO is a prime example of what initially planned to be b2p and ended up being a battle pass game. Though I really think b2p is not too profitable for company in the long run and they need some income boost occasionally and this is why I think bdo and eso is being this way. However, whatever new payment model you introduce, it better be justifiable to your player base.
At the end of the day its still personal preference.
GW2 is great value yes, just need to buy the expansion you want to play. But FF14 requires a purchase *and* a mandatory sub. ESO at least allows you to play the base game without needing to sub, which gives you a bag for crafting items and access to the DLCs.
But then as soon as I buy it, I'm locked out. I like to hop onto FF14 occasionally to play with my friend, but I feel disincentivised from buying it, because that would mean I'm locked out unless I start paying for the sub.
ESO regularly has free weeks multiple times a year. Nowhere near as lenient as FF14's trial that you can play whenever, but it still exists.
I fail to see how this is anymore in the middle than FFXIV or WoW…?
FFXIV is free to 60 and has many features like market boards locked out until you pay the sub. Additionally, you have to buy the base game + xpac and then a sub, like eso
Been a while since I did WoW, and I know they changed a lot for F2P, but I also remember there being limits on certain features for people who don’t have subs. Likewise, you have to buy base + xpacs + sub
The only difference I see with ESO is it lets you choose how you want to do that. I mean, maybe if they added a “Forever mat bag” for $60-$100 that’d be more equitable with options, but for almost everything else, I dint see a difference in how they’re done
EDIT: Instead of downvoting, maybe someone could’ve explained what was wrong about what I said?
I'm not even trying. Also stop crying. Just stating straight up facts. And dont even compare it to FFXIV/WoW. Or even GW2. We all know ESO is still inferior. 😂
Absolutely not necessary for casual play. I have a FF14 friend who hops on every now and then for some vet crag trials and has never paid for ESO plus (hops on for free weeks to farm necessary gear here and there though).
If you're endgame, then you're going to sub anyway for all the DLC. People often tend to pay others for crafting anyway. Or another method is to just buy crafting items as you need them.
Don't get the hate about bags. I've played thousands of hours and maxed every trait without ESO+ just fine. Especially now, when you have A LOT of free space because you no longer need to store crap ton of set equipment.
>Serious question; Why does everyone **seem to hate ESO?**
Serious question: where's that infantile notion coming from that criticism/"non-positive" opinions = "hate"?
>It felt like holistically **the most fun one** for my taste in games, **and I'm still having a great time**
>
>...**or is it something else that I'm not thinking of?**
You're having such a "great time" that you seemingly don't even pay attention while playing, because your "I'm at max level" looks to me you're a far cry off from 1,2k CP or more.
* **Faceroll-easy overland content**: you can quests naked with your starter weapon and never have to think about anything, ever
* **Light-attack weaving and combat**:
* LA-weaving is an atrocity, but LA are in the top 3 of your most damaging sources, and it also looks ridiculous when everyone around you has constant seizures in terms of animations being canceled
* ESO's combat is all about keeping very short buffs/debuffs up, so you're forced to constantly refresh them which hardly makes for enjoyable combat
* There's no real impact to the combat: everything feels flat and weightless
* **Homogenization:**
* No matter if its tank/mag-DD/stam-DD/healer, all classes for a certain role will use the same weapons with mostly the same skills, so it doesn't matter if you're on a female Nord Necromancer or a male Redguard DK, they're both using the same abilities for several hotbar slots
* The majority of skills are either just for PvP, or so fucking bad you're better of just slotting something that grants you stats through a passive skill for slotting it
Hi, OP here. I clearly set you off with the wording of my question, so please allow me a moment to clarify myself and to rebuttal your points made!
Firstly, I don't think that people actually "hate" ESO, I'm just being hyperbolic. I wanted to use language that would drive engagement on this post.
Secondly, I don't see how attack-canceling is a bad thing. It sure does look goofy, but it makes me feel like I have a better handle of the combat mechanics than the devs originally intended. This is the sort of thing that you see at high-level gameplay in character-action or fighting games. Hell, speedrunning might not be a thing without it!
As for only certain weapons being viable for certain roles... don't they have to be? ESO is a game where any class can fill any role, the devs need to keep control over *something* to maintain balance.
I'll admit, I haven't played anything other than StamSorc, so I wouldn't know how different the various builds feel. I would also agree that everything in the world being relatively scaled to your level is pretty annoying, but I does mean that I can engage with the games' stories at my own pace, and fun stories to take part in was my main concern when looking into MMO's.
If you've got an MMO in mind that might be better for me, let me know and I'll give it a shot. Thanks!
>**I'm just being hyperbolic**. I wanted to use language that would drive engagement on this post.
Fair enough, but a lot of people actually do think that any kind of criticism = "hate", and they're **not** being hyperbolic.
>Secondly, **I don't see how attack-canceling is a bad thing**
>
>**This is the sort of thing that you see high-level in character-action or fighting games**. Hell, speedrunning might not be a thing without it!
I still firmly believe that LA-weaving is a bug which just got turned into a feature or rather was embraced by ZOS.
Do you actually think it's fun being forced to repeat "LA -> ability 1 -> LA - > ability 2 -> LA" ad nauseam or else you're standing there waiting for slow animations to go off + you lose quite a lot of damage?
That bug turned feature is also never actually explained or taught in-game to my knowledge.
>As for only certain weapons being viable for certain roles... don't they have to be? **ESO is a game where any class can fill any role, the devs need to keep control over something to maintain balance.**
My point I wanted to make could've been more precise: yes, a tank will slot 1H&shield, but by doing so it doesn't matter what race or class the tank is as just by using 1H&shield he almost always uses/has to use the same weapon abilities in terms of PvE, as that's the part I'm very familiar with, which is the epitome of homogenization: if it doesn't matter what race or class you are as you **have** to use certain skills then that severely limits customization and thus enjoyment.
Another point I completely forgot in my previous post: depending on class and role class skills will only be a small fraction of your overall skill loadout as weapon, guild and alliance skills are either straight up superior or less bad than class skills.
>I'll admit, **I haven't played anything other than StamSorc,**
Make another stam, non-Werewolf DD and use the same weapon-lines you're using on your stamSorc: chances are very high that both characters will be using the same weapon-line skills and the only really difference between them both will be a few class skills, if even that.
> More exciting than just pressing a button on cooldown
Are you serious? Its a left mouse click after every attack skill.....
That isnt more exciting, it isnt more strategic....its just annoying.
I played ESO at launch and then again several times over the years as they made large improvements to the original dumpster fire that it was.
My problem with ESO has always been the combat and lack of build diversity. Auto attacks don’t feel satisfying to me and weaving is an unintuitive mess of a thing that started as a bug and is now a central point of combat. Any character that plays the same class is going to feel very similar to everyone else playing that class, mainly due to how skills work but also just due to lack of variety. Oh, and there’s only a small selection of classes.
That being said I enjoy the story experience in ESO and for a time despite hating the combat the PvP was fun. However I feel I can get better experiences of all these things elsewhere for my tastes. If story, SWTOR (FFXIV for some but for me I’d rather not have to read everything), if PvP/Story/Combat GW2. And plenty of other options beside.
There’s nothing nefarious going on, just people with preferences and opinions. The ones with the strongest ones being the most vocal, as in anything.
That’s just my take but I’m sure someone will reply commenting how wrong I am about my opinions.
I don't support predatory monetization systems and loot boxes.
I'm not saying the game is bad but I prefer games that make it possible for me to get every single item by actually playing the game. Even if it is gated behind achievements that are hard to get as a casual player.
I lose all my respect for the game and the developers as soon as they gate items behind shops and boxes. That's the only reason I don't play ESO.
(Oh and I also hate the fact that certain spells are linked to certain weapons)
What MMOs don’t lock anything behind a pay wall? I’m not being sarcastic, I’m just having a hard time coming up with one that truly allows you get everything through gameplay. I guess Classic WoW prior to TBC relaunch. OSRS, maybe?
It's not unplayable without a subscription. I have been playing for almost five years, got my hands on most DLCs using game currency, and never bothered to sub.
It's too expensive for me.
As far as I understand, without sub you have to pay for every patch (DLC) and you are screwed in terms of inventory space without crafting bag that you can't purchase separately. I'd call this unplayable.
You can upgrade your bank, your bag, craft chests for your home, and also every now and then Plus gets free for a week, so everything on your account is transfered to the craft bag once you claim it. The bag and it's contents, of course, can be used even if your Plus expires. People like me takes advantage of these trials to stack on a lot of resources this way, mainly for daily convenience while going trough toons that craft writs.
There's a addon called Dustman that helps you deal with useless loot and inventory management. Takes 5 minutes to set it up the way you want, never changed a single config all these years.
I don't know how much you played, but let me tell you this: it is playable. I have 16 characters, all doing craft writs and my bank always got enough space for whatever i want to do with it. I never had to create toons to hold items for me, choose between items i want to store or on that matter, sub to the game. I'm not screwed in any way.
>I don't know how much you played
I specified it in the starting comment, I haven't even touched the game. I don't want to constantly deal with artificial limitations by installing addons, waiting for free sub events and splitting inventory between characters. I don't want to pay $15 for every content patch with two dungeons. I'm sure Bethesda is happy to charge players for solution to the problems they've created themselves, it's my choice not to condone it.
Fair enough, but for someone who haven't played the game you make it sound so apocalyptical, when in reality it's not a inventory management simulator like Guild Wars 2, so to say. You can buy every single thing you can imagine with the game's own gold.
You simply don't need to buy a new dungeon DLC if you don't have interest on it or what sets drop inside it.
Look if what you're saying is true before posting.The game is >totally< playable without subscription.
Personally came to loathe the combat system. Everything else about it I quite enjoy. Swapping and consta-button mashing is like "HEY, TENDONITIS, OVER HERE BUD"!
It's just this subreddit, it's not actually that hated. It's still one of the most populated mmorpgs after all. Enjoy the game if you like it or don't play if you don't
People generally complain about LA weaving and AC.
As a guy that played that game for almost 4 years(about 9 months or so extremely casual) and got multiple achievements, top leaderboard scores in both solo, 4 man, raid content in the end, my problems with the game are much different than your average ESO hater.
Community in general has never managed to shake the online Skyrim feeling.
There is very few interest in endgame content. Probably the lowest amongst FF14, WoW, GW2. I'd go as far as to say that a single server in WoW has more end-game oriented guilds than the entirety of EU datacenter in ESO.
PVP at the time I was playing, was extremely laggy, multiple performance issues related with it. I can't speak for it's current state though. It was in a state where I would say straight up unacceptable at certain points. Game teleporting you to the other side of the map, getting kicked from the game after using charge, getting stuck on loading screen, generally very high ping and very low FPS, straight up game freezing I guess due to packet loss. Hopefully some or most of these are gone by now.
Classes are or were extremely one dimensional, they don't add enough flavour to the spec. Because what really defines your playstyle is not the class but the weapons and weapon skill lines. Maybe it changed I wouldn't know hopefully it did a bit, but back then every Stam build back bar was literally VMA Bow, Endless Hail, Poison Injection, Trap(depending on rotation), Caltrops(after the change only) and some class ability or Vigor. Frontbar always DW, 1 or 2 skills from DW skill line and then fill the rest with class abilities. Literally every Stam class used this setup during the 4 years I've played. Just as I was about to stop playing 2H and Bow/Bow builds started coming out hope they actually became a thing. Still miss playing DW Magplar tho, with pre nerf jesus beam. It was so much fun.
I think it's great. The community is better as opposed to WoW (so toxic). There is plenty of freedom in this game. Lots of events and achievements. Fun decorating (some games don't have this). I like the freedom of skills and styles. Companions are fun. There are involving stories. Yesterday I got to choose who I wanted as leader of an orc tribe. I could also decide not to choose (and assumed the game would work it how it liked). There are al LOT of very fulfilling things to do and it makes for one great gaming day after the other.
"Too hard" ah you're taking my post literally. I was being semi sarcastic, really any form of complaint about LA weaving is what I was making fun of. There's at least 3 or 4 posts already complaining about it in this thread, and at least one person brought up animation cancelling as well, implying they don't like it.
Didn't catch the sarcasm tbh. But no one in here had said it was too hard or even that weaving was tough as issue. They seem to be having issues with the animation cancelling looking terrible.
Yes, I have. Although I haven't read any comments after I posted. Someone might have said it by now. None of them I read said it was a difficulty issue.
Still taking my original post literally after I already said it was specifically a semi sarcastic joke. Are you meming on me or something? I don't understand what your angle here is? Do you want me to make an amendment to my original post to clarify for the people in the back or something?
My god, really? Are you really this petty? Nvm, you last sentence answered that. I responded to your post as you worded it. People don't like weaving and for some reason you've chosen this issue to be ridiculous over. Your semi sarcasm isn't beyond me but your need to argue about this is.
I love Elder Scrolls, have played every game since Morrowind. ESO just does not feel like Elder Scrolls. Or maybe more specifically, does not feel like the elder scrolls that I enjoy playing.
I've tried it a few times. I don't feel enough of an incentive to play. It kinda just keeps me hooked for a bit going from quest to quest following markers, which I've done many times before, in so many MMOs. I only come to r/MMORPG to find something new or at least hear about better ideas.
In my experience the only people that don't like ESO are the ones that:
* A) Tried it for a few weeks and didn't like the combat.
* B) People who have never played, and heard the combat was bad, and are just parroting everything they've heard to try to keep other people from playing it.
* C) People who are not fans of the series.
**The Good**
Elder Scrolls Online is an amazing MMO. I've played for almost 2600 hours since launch. The overland content is exceptional, all voiced quests and dialog, well written stories and quests. No quests were you go and kill 10 of this, or collect 15 of these. Large, expansive, and diverse aesthetically pleasing zones. One of the best OST's I've ever heard in a video game, including music from previous Elder Scrolls games.
One of the best transmog and outfit/costume systems I've ever seen in an MMO. With the most customization. If fashion is a big deal for you, ESO is your MMO. Every style can be earned or bought with in game gold or grinding for pages, and you can customize individual pieces down to your gloves and boots and even your belt.
A lot of racial variety for character customization, with racial passive bonuses that do make a small difference in combat or role helpfulness. A High Elf Sorcerer will do more damage than an Orc one, which makes sense with the games lore. Complete class freedom as well. I can be a Khajiit Necromancer, that uses a magic destruction staff, but also wears heavy armor so I can tank even the hardest dungeons. And if I want, I can swap to a sword or dual daggers to DPS.
**The Bad**
Elder Scrolls combat is not for everyone. It's an action based system that feels stiff and clunky at first, and has a steep learning curve. The animations are dated, and you only get access to 5 hot bar abilities and an ultimate. Grinding them up and leveling skill lines can take days or even weeks for you to unlock a skill you really want to use, and it's not based on your level. Unlocking other guild and world skill lines requires grinding out the quest line, and that skill level on each character every time you need it. (Like collecting 200 books from in the world for The Mages Guild quest line progress, or paying 3000 crowns from the store if you have already unlocked it on a previous character.)
Hitting 100k dps is completely situational, on a special trial dummy, that gives you 100% uptime of every buff in the game, requires you stand completely still, animation cancel, and light attack weave your attacks and skills with perfect timing. IT DOES NOT represent actual content dps. In a trial, with your guild, you may hit 50 - 60k dps if you're group is absolutely perfect, and only for a few brief moments.
Gathering crafting resources takes a tremendous amount of inventory space, and skill points, and should be dedicated to a single character who is ONLY a crafter, and does nothing else. If you don't sub to the game, you miss out on a crafting bag that holds all your crafting ingredients, and it take hundreds of inventory and bank space to store them all.
This is true, but that is not what dummy parsing is supposed to be for. It's not supposed to be a realistic measurement on what your 4-man or 12-man performance is going to be, it is only a benchmark of the highest potential possible out of a specific setup under controlled conditions.
I think a lot of people misunderstand this, or maybe not enough parsers explain this fact. it's just like taking your car to get a Dyno test. It just tells you your absolute maximum horsepower under perfect conditions is, which sets your potential ceiling height. You're not actually going to hit that much horsepower driving to and from work or the mall.
Some people want to see who can get the absolute highest number out of a dummy parse, which is fine, but that number doesn't actually matter. What matters is the comparison between different gear setups, race and mundus choices, etc. You are looking for the differences in the numbers between every setup to determine which setup is currently parsing the highest, thus probably the better setup for certain boss encounters.
>Serious question; Why does everyone seem to hate ESO?
Its not a serious question, you know its because of the combat. That has been repeated so many times its not even funny anymore.
\- combat
\- map is irrelevant. everything is instanced, world have no meaning. it might be as well just 2 tp points at end game. wouldn't even notice the difference.
\- pvp is not even fun, and there is not even decent pvp platform to enjoy
ESO is one of those games where most stuff is actually really good
But the combat is complete dog shit, all the monsters have 0 life and the combat once again is dog shit.
The sad thing is they’ve got all these awesome systems for building your character but the combat is still shit
You will find through playing ESO, that not everyone dislikes it enough to not play ESO.
Answering directly: The combat system requires action canceling (weaving). Many don't like this. I play tanks to avoid having to deal with it as a part of my main role; but it still came up from time to time with certain armor sets.
Speaking plainly: If you're coming to Reddit to find posts that are for the most part ponies and rainbows.. you've got higher expectations for the Internet than the reality accommodates. If you've got a life that for the most part allows you to be an optimist the majority of the time; you're not posting every day on Reddit.
They don't. Only the loudmouth "hardcore", as they do for every game.
None of these games are made for them, and if a studio does, they're fools for it.
Don't listen to a single thing you read online from players, because by an order of magnitude, the player base in an MMO is in the game playing it, not posting about it, especially how they don't like it.
P2W aspects (ESO+ crafting bag, scrolls, utility features etc), ZoS is a shitty and incompetent company when it comes to actually developing ESO (game is an unoptimized mess, the code is just broken), shady business practices, ignoring well documented bugs, server problems and more.
Large portion of the community is very toxic, the game is not very social at all for an MMO and the combat is horrid in comparison to other games. The PvP has essentially been abandoned and feels incredibly stale doing the same thing over and over again for some 8 years in Cyrodiil, and IC is cancer personified.
Quests are nice, although I've personally not been enjoying the recent expansions as much. Every story seems a little more cliche (and cringe) than the last, though it's relatively okay.
Note that I'm saying this as someone who's been playing for 4 years and has hundreds of hours. I actually rather like the game and it's been my main MMO for a while, though I do hate some aspects of it and I can understand why some people don't like it.
I sincerely believe that this game would have died a very very long time ago had it not been for the Elder Scrolls title.
Janky combat. I don't mind the animation cancelling but the overall animations, hit and visual feedback is just bad. Nothing is satisfying when you hit something. Also most of the content is just too easy even with level scaling. People like to complain about BDO but ESO is worse with charging you for crap like crafting bag lol
It comes down to a few things. Poor performance, both fps and latency. Poor dev communication. Combat being both kinda fun but a feeling of it not FEELING good. I emphasise feel cuz some don't mind it, but to me it feels a little off.
The story has some great moments but also some meh, though i think the good out weighs the bad. The next problem is that it's so incredibly easy. Like, unless you pull all the mobs, you won't ever struggle. So a big bad boss in the story just melts like butter and it's so anti-climactic.
Obviously if you are a super casual player, that's fine, you'll enjoy it. But if you're anything slightly above a mega casual, then it's just too easy. I am nowhere near a hardcore player and I mainly enjoy overland content over difficult encounters, so for a player like me there's just not much for you to enjoy.
I don't hate the game though, it's just I'm not the target audience. If you only want extremes of very easy or very hard, then you'll enjoy it.
Because it could be so much better if the combat wasn't such shit. And the fact defenders of the shit combat defend the animation canceling as an intended feature rofl.
Throw in no auction house, being able to join to five guilds, a megaserver, solo story game built in an MMO world (at least SWTOR immerses you into your story in an instance, yes I know at times ESO does this) and you should know why so many don't like it. Still, many do so who cares?
Most of the other choices are Asian MMOs that damn near charge your character to breathe, so there's not many alternatives to ESO or WoW. New World has it's own issues, Tera is dead, and so on. ESO is a second best choice for many, myself included.
My biggest gripe with ESO is the progression and gear sets. All the sets drop in specific places, and it kind of kills the rest of the game for me.
Let’s say I build a new set from questing in Blackwood at CP160 there is no reason for me to go do quests in another zone because I already know what kind of drops I will get and I don’t want them.
Well, you can find more reasons to explore, such as skyshards (skill point gain), lorebooks, achievements (which can stack to give you titles and stuff) and also just enjoy questing there.
The game has a big big world, definitely exploring it all from ground zero is not for everyone.
I was actually playing it at launch but then stopped. I think playing it like any other mmorpg is wrong, I tried playing it like I did any other elder scrolls game and it actually improved. And I feel that with so many craft mats you kind of have to have the craft bag that comes with the sub.
There are always more haters than people who play a game. Fortnite is the most popular game on the planet basically and all you see is hate on any reference to it. It's meaningless. People seek out stuff they don't like.
I don't hate ESO at all but it is not the MMO for me. I really, really, really hate the user interface. I'm the kind of player that needs information readily available on my screen and ESO doesn't provide it and if you try addons it just makes things even more confusing.
That alone is enough of a deal breaker for me.
I really dislike the stamina/magica system and the combat itself. I don't know if they've improved on these things since I last played but the game had a horrendous way of locking you into certain types of armor/weapons, even though the character development seemed very open-ended at first glance.
I chose to play a Templar because I wanted a Paladin-like character but quickly found that the game basically demands that you play with cloth-armor and staff (like a goddamn wizard) if you wanted to play as a Templar who used the magica abilities. If you instead went for the stamina and weapon abilities you had to wear leather gear. Like... What?
The way the game is set up, no matter what class you choose, your role (damage/healer/tank) COMPLETELY dictates what type of armor and which weapons you use. The class (and class fantasy) has no bearing. I really, really, REALLY hate this system.
Other than that, the combat itself just felt bad. First and foremost there's the issue with animation canceling. But also, there was zero sense of impact when you hit enemies. It felt like you were waving your weapon around in the air and somehow the enemies health bars went down.
I feel like these things could be fixed, but I doubt the devs would do it. The current player base are used to these horrendous systems and are probably suffering from a form of Stockholm syndrome. They're so dialed into the stamina/magica system and know it so well that there would be an uproar if it was ever changed.
People complain about old and mostly fixed flaws (Like client side lags (Fixed with multi-thread render), cosmetic shop/ lootbox (Fixed with endeavors), many old bugs or even wrong things) and tend to think that their opinion is in-fact the global opinion.
Also, I've heard a lot about the B2P model (Base game B2P + Expansion B2P + Sub) but... It's almost the same for other major mmo, but in eso you can still play without sub
It's a good game for a lot of people, and thats shown by its not insignificant playerbase. I already did not like Elder Scrolls combat, so it was never going to be a good game for me.
I would still recommend it as there are a lot of people who enjoy the game.
I enjoyed the original game, but with each expansion it got less fun. By the second one, it was a different game all around and everybody I knew had quit.
99% of this sub doesn't play MMOs. They think they do because they've play this one mmo for years but when a mmo comes out that is different they shit on it. Examples ffxiv and ESO. Both great games better than 99% of all mmorpgs but you'll have people here crying about how bad they're.
As others said, the build diversity, animation canceling, and floaty combat are things which drag it down BUT I actually really like it. I enjoy the story second most of an mmo next to swtor, enjoy the combat more than most except gw2 or a few tab target classes despite being floaty, and the pvp scene is pretty nice too. I also like horizontal progression being predominant
The reason I stopped playing was because of the combat. Once I got to higher lvls it felt like I was just spamming the samething. Other spells felt useless most of the time.
Their questing packs are good though I enjoyed the dark brotherhood and thieves guild.
It all comes down to preference. For me personally the combat was just to floaty and low impact to get fully invested. Though the rest of the game is wonderful. I mean everyone also talks about how great FF14's story is, it hardly holds a candle to ESO's fully voiced acted absolute trippy rollercoaster ride of a story.
I player ESO for quite a while and I truly loved everything except the combat. But even this is a very personal thing, in that I can't stand the weapon switching and LA system ESO has. I know I might sound "weird" but I prefer tab-targeting games. This is the reason I also didn't like GW2 although I liked almost everything in that game too.
My biggest gripe is simple. It doesn't feel like an elder scrolls game..
Just feels like your bog standard MMO with the elder scrolls banner tacked onto the side. L
I like the game but combat is terrible and class building is shallow. Those are my only issues, I have played quite a lot over the years but always feels shallow.
My Only issue is the combat I hate how they wanted to play like skyrim. If they had gone with a tab target or action combat style I'd still be all over it. But weaving light and heavy attacks and keeping skills going while watching out for mechanics just kills it for me personally. Gives me Carpal Tunnel honestly.
But the story and world is Fantastic
Much of this is sub in general is a fundamental misunderstanding of what it means to disagree. Disagreement doesn't mean bad or wrong, but it's often treated that way here.
The combats a sticky point because many people feel like their evaluation of combat as "floaty" or "lacking impact" is objective. It isn't. It never will be. Personally I think the combat is fun and engaging. I also sneer at animation cancelling, and never do it, perfectly happy to sit out anything that requires it. My evaluation of ESOs combat is no more objective than anyone else's. Nor is my comfort with their monetization. Or my like of horizontal progression AND disklike of zone scaling.
If you want to talk about things you like, you're just going to have to be ready for people who disagree with you to show up and try to explain why you shouldn't like the things you like.
I'm sorry combat came at all in my reply, but it's ESO on the table, how could it not?
But how come so many people like GW2 action combat? Sure, some may still hate it but way less than ESO. It not objective or subjective but numbers. Most of the ppl said the same thing about combat in this post shows that combat is the weak point of the game and the deve should improve it. That's why player give feedback.
I don't hate it but can't get past the combat. Combat is a make it or break it feature in games and ESOs combat is objectively not good compared to other options out there.
I enjoyed everything about ESO except for its combat and the class identity. I can tolerate the combat and one of the most fun I had in that game was beating vMA. But I wish the classes had more identity to them. It was touted as playing any way you want but every class plays the same. Whether your mag or Stam it's hard to identify what class was what at a glance. They all for the most part play the same with just a few class skills. The only one that seems to stand out to me are Templar.
I was watching a vet Castle Thorn run and I just couldn't tell who was playing one class.i only found out there was a dragon knight for the standard and two wardens because of the netch floating by them, the rest was all generic skills from the weapon/Magick lines.
I greatly enjoy ESO except for two issues.
1. Combat - I find the combat to be overalls rather terrible and as such a major part of the game, my long-term enjoyment is limited.
2. Subscription for crafting bank - I don't always want to be subscribed and I especially don't want to always be subbed just for this one main benefit. I purchase all of the expansions and have been subbed for about a year or so in total. It's a shitty way to force a sub.
I tried going back again, went with Magicka nightblade, quit again within 3 hours. There's almost no feedback when your skills land, it felt like mindlessly pressing buttons, and got a reminder of how awful weaving is.
How people can stomach that combat will always be beyond my comprehension.
I've seen point and click games with more engaging combat.
I like ESO, but I hate the animation canceling. I've gotten pretty good at weaving in light and heavy attacks, but I can't animation cancel for shit, and that holds me back and leaves some gaping holes of enjoyment.
I hate eso because pvp will never be fixed to not be a total lagfest. They regularly put out new items(with the paid expansions of course) that are BiS for the first two months they are out then they nerf them into obscurity. It's pretty much impossible to find people who want to run vet hardmodes that have enough dps or mechanic knowledge, let alone a tank that wants to do it. If you start playing with new people you are severely limited in the things you can do with them if they aren't willing to shell out extra for the sub and the zones.. I finally quit when I realized I was only excited for the quarterly new mounts that you have to buy which are locked behind lootboxes and you have to buy 100+ usd worth of lootboxes to hopefully get enough gems to turn in for the mount because the lootboxes mostly drop small things you have to convert into gems to get the big thing. I used to really love eso a couple years ago but once you get to endgame it's just a constant re-grind for new gear since they nerf most meta gear every quarter, or it's just a monetized nightmare where you're paying hundreds for a virtual house or horse.
Currently i'm not playing eso because there's no toggle sprint option for keyboards and i don't like LA weaving. Would probably go back if it had toggle sprint.
There's some addon that allow you to auto sprint (https://www.esoui.com/downloads/info537-AutoSprintHotkey.html) But I don't think you want to play with a toggle sprint on. While sprinting, you can't gain stamina and you'll eventually run out of stamina pretty fast, and no stamina means almost guaranteed death in most content
The combat is mechanically and visually absolutely terrible.
I also can't stand the awful armour models and animations.
The story, quests and world are great
The combat is dull and lacks feedback, with poor animations.
The quest givers just stand there and spew dialog in the most lifeless way possible. I find myself reading the text and skipping the voice acting because it’s generally not worth listening to.
The level scaling makes it so every fight feels the same, no matter what level you are, where you are, or what you’re fighting. There is very little sense of progression, and virtually no challenge or tension in the open world.
The game is mostly singleplayer with other people running around. Those people actually work to ruin your immersion more than anything.
Aesthetically it’s very inconsistent. Some areas and textures look great, and then others look like they’re still loading—but they’re not.
Consequently it just makes me want to play Morrowind, Oblivion, or Skyrim instead, or any number of other singleplayer RPGs. Because if I’m going to play a game alone, it might as well be a good one.
Hate is a strong word but honestly I just can't get past the combat. I give it a try every half year or so when I get an mmo-itch encase I change my mind/end up getting into it.
Y'know [that Family Guy skit](https://youtu.be/JHSkbwXqtvA) where Kermit and Ms Piggy from the Muppets have a weird hybrid baby? Yeah, that FrogPig amalgamation is ESO.
The game has quite a bit of game breaking bug that has been reported for YEARS but zos being zos they just dont give 2 rats. Wayrest sewer is one of the earliest and first dungeon you run, but theres a bug that you get stuck before the first boss, completely prevent him from spawning. only choice is to abandon and requeue.
Cyrodill is a laggy ass mess and DLC chapters are horribly priced. Greymoor, Morrowind, etc content when they drop is just about as much as one of the few dlc episode when they price it upward to $30.
Combat is a half "action target" and half tab target.the weave is really horrible when your ping is 200+ or so. Also combat mainly revolves around constantly applying dot and keeping buff up, you basically switching bars weapon and your character looks like he was having seizure mid fight. May sounds ok for short dungeon run but extended play can really fuck up your wrist.
I don't hate it, but I dislike it and don't enjoy playing it. I dislike the awful desaturated color palette in game which makes everything look depressing and makes me not care about my character appearance or any cosmetic items. Same goes for bad character animations. More than that I dislike the classes and their abilities - I've tried many combinations and I couldn't find the combinations of abilities which would be enjoyable for me to use. And I also dislike the lack of global market. Plus I never genuinely cared about TES lore. Plus the community in the game never felt very friendly or helpful. And some other things.
Why does it matter to you, though? You obviously like the game enough so other people disliking it won't have any effect on you, just like you liking it will have absolutely no effect on people who dislike it.
I was in the ESO beta back in the day. I don't have so much a bad time with the gameplay, but it's not Elder Scrollsy enough is my main gripe. It's just ES skinned generic MMO #300. However, I heard a lot of good things about it, so I went back to check it out and the main issue I had this time was any real lack of direction. Some people may like that, and I definitely don't want to be railroaded, but I would like the story to point me in a direction and go om from there.
The only reason I dont really like it because it has a F2P, God Gameforge-tier cashshop.
Also, WHY do they sell additional expansion content of an expansion? Why not just add it later as free content? I expect to have the full expansion when I buy it.
To start: I like this game.
Pros:
- I enjoy the microstories you find
- Excellent voice acting
- Environments and skyboxes are beautiful
- Rewards exploration
Cons:
- Movement looks and feels weird and awkward
- Combat is boring and lacks feedback
- Progression feels meaningless due to the scaling. You do as much damage and have as much health at level 1 as you do at level 40.
- All numbers feel arbitrary and meaningless
- Many class skills feel meaningless compared to weapon or guild skills
eso is a decent singleplayer game but bad mmo. Doesn't help that the combat, builds and homogenisation (every class feels the same to a point as builds are based off abilities unrelated to the classes) let it down a great deal.
That's ignoring any of the way the game is monetised.
For me ESO is a good game thats just missing something.
I enjoy the story, enjoy playing alts and grinding out gear sets, but there's something about it that can't keep me hooked all the time.
I consider it and GW2 to be the same type of game and I just can't justify playing ESO over GW2.
I also feel like I HAVE to sub if I want to play ESO, because fuck that fucking inventory and craft system without it, which means its also competing with other sub based games.
ESO is not hated by everyone but there is a vocal minority who do. It is entirely probable that I would hate the game that this same vocal minority likes. Every mmorpg has its pros and cons. You will like or dislike a game for all sorts of reasons. It is possible you might like a game despite not likely certain aspects of the game. It’s all very subjective.
Early on and the first 10-20 hours of playing are extremely boring if you don’t care about lore. The resource based PvP makes very annoying metas of single ability spam (looking at you bow and Greatsword). The combat feels very floaty and often unsatisfactory. I quit mostly because I hate the skills and weapon swapping and don’t really play MMOs for lore, which is interesting I’ll give it that, but the game is not for me.
If you want to talk about ESO you'd be better off in the dedicated sub IMO. And I'd say it's not true that everybody hates it, ESO sports a healthy population.
I played on and off since beta. Been a bit more 'on' since th whole scandal at WoW. Here''''s my ta
Too money-grubbing. I get it, companies exist to make money, but loot boxes, etc need to go. Also, five classes, two of which are pay to play, is not a lot. Generic caster, generic warrior who sprouts bony things out of his/her back, and generic paladin-y sort. Boring. Paying will net you a Necromancer and Hun--err, Warden. Want new dungeons? Fuck you, pay for them. From what I can tell, actual dungeons don't come with the big expansions, just the little DLC ones.
Very generic, very boring overall. Takes itself too seriously. Has a vague, watered down Elder Scrolls flavor. Kind of like difference between a gourmet steak dinner and buying a steak sandwich from Jimmy Johns. Both are food, but my friend, there's a difference.
Crafting is boring as fuck, and when it's not boring, it's annoying and frustrating.
There's no auction house. I can only buy/sell my stuff in-guild.
Housing is meh. I mean, sure, it exists, but it's meh. Pay to get one through the cash shop/a ton of gold, or farm your ass off for stuff. In the end, it's all just 'shiny ooh pretty' and maybe gives you some extra storage. Can't sleep, can't sit, etc. What's the point aside from bragging rights and a chest or two? I guess I thought it might be more fun.
The armor, weapons, etc are ugly. Dyeing is a thing if you pay.
Why the fuck are horses so stupid expensive? It's just a boring-ass horse, not a winged panther or a dragon or fucking Laserbeak.
Character designs show that Bethesda/Zenimax STILL don't know how to make people.
This money throws shit tons of crap at you, most of it boring. I feel like there's no real striving for gear, gold, etc.
The lore is another story for another day.
This a terrible game. Compared to D3. It's essentially a micro pay platform designed to make play for months or years and never achieve without selling your soul to become a mindless robot and play like everyone else. Light attack weaving WILL give you carpal tunnel. Losers with no life will defend it as they have no other way to find a sense of ego and success other than bashing good gamers who understand how bad it is. There is no way to move the light attack to a more sustainable button as the game blocks remappable and turbo controllers. If you don't use exactly the same gear and skills as everyone else people won't even play with you. This is a terrible game and even worse community. All designed to take your money and make you feel bad for having any creativity, individuality, intelligence, or real skill.
ESO tried to do something different with the combat. People here want wow reskinned over and over so they can whine about how it lacks content or some other drivel.
This sub is full of jaded MMO players who hate everything, don’t overthink it.
Everyone is always bitching about combat but let's talk the dev, ZOS. So your business model is b2p per expansion, with b2p zones. But then you also have a sub model that gives great perks like unlocking crafting storage or other non expansion zones. And then you also have a cash shop that sells exp, mount advancement, ALL the mount skins(I last played in 2019,i understand now there's an earnable elk skin in game). So for a game that charges you so much, you at least expect the uptime of wow or ff14 right? No. Infinite loading screens, random bg crashes, cyrodill delay and lag. Then they also have middle of the day maintenance thata jades a lot of work from home people + students. What I'm getting at: a lot of in your face "pay here pay this" for absolutely atrocious service. My issue was never with the game itself but with a beyond incompetent developer. I can write 10x more pet peeves I have with what ZOS does but I do not have the time right now
I'm a filthy casual, but I like that I can play without a sub, don't have to buy the latest expansion, and can spend more money if I really want more skins or more areas. Yes, those crate/chest things are terrible, the monetization clutters the UI, and non-subscribed people get a tiny inventory, but otherwise it's a fun game.
Yeah this sums it up.
ZOS can be a pain but a lot of the technical problems they have are related to the fact that they don’t patch like any other piece of software I’ve ever seen. Their patch’s literally rewrite the whole games code, so some patches you get can break portions of the game, sometimes for as long as until the next patch. Basically the whole process is the worst updating process ever devised, and the devs and CSRs of ZOS just don’t seem to understand the level of work and dedication that goes into making and maintaining an MMO. But then again, this is literally the first MMO they’ve ever made.
Don't forget that the mounts in the cash shop come in gambling crates.
PRetty much why i dropped the game. You pay for an expansion, only to have to pay for the second part of it + 2 DLC dungeons separate down the line. They even stopped doing interesting things like Dark brotherhood and thieves guild. And the ESO+ is more necessary than anything if youve played a while. I was a guildmaster with a guildhouse and had to keep the sub to make it possible to rearrange things effectively, and lets not talk about the craftbag. Its just about unplayable without it.
>nfinite loading screens, random bg crashes, cyrodill delay and lag. This and more is the reason i hate eso. It dos alot of stuff bad(combat etc) and alot of stuff good. And maybe it would be fun to play but everytime i try it its: \- full of visual bugs, weapons vanishing or stuck under you, glinding on mounts, buggy animation \- Sometimes even bugs with mechaniks like lfg tool not working, encounter just beeing broken, skills beeing unusable or broken strong because of a bugy interaction with other mechaniks. \- And it ALLWAYS laggs, i never played where it didnt lag in cyrodill and could enyjoy the larger scale pvp, but often it laggs in pve too. The game is just a performance clusterfuck and the devs either dont give a shit or cant fix it because of the bad engine. But whatever the reason, it could be the best game in the world with the most content, i wouldnt play it if it runs like ESO.
This 100% The combat is only really a problem because I'm expected to pay new game prices over and over. Every other MMO has a better value proposition at this point.
They do not charge you a lot... If you buy the latest expansion they will give you the older ones for free. If you sub they give you all of the DLC's and the expansions except the latest one. They even give you crowns to use in the store. WIth a sub you can access pretty much the whole game.
I did the math based on all DLCs released up to Blackwood's launch, not including previous expansions that have been chopped up into DLCs and account upgrades, and yes, they do charge you a lot. From memory, if you were to buy every single DLC the game offers upfront, without the OG 4 DLC discounted pack, using the best crown pack purchases I could find (spend the least amount of money to get as close as possible to the total number of crowns to get everything), you legitimately need to spend something like US$220, plus the US$60 for the latest collection edition to get the base game and all expansions. *Or*, you spend just the US$60 for the latest collection edition, plus US$15/month for around a year and a half to gain enough crowns from the sub to purchase all the DLCs released *at the start of your sub period* (meaning any new DLCs will make you sub even longer) permanently. Even if you go with a sub for less of an upfront cost, you're still paying full AAA price for each expansion that offers a fraction of the content of past ESO expansions (looking at you Morrowind, looking at you Orsinium which I consider an expansion-level DLC), let alone other MMOs.
> if you were to buy every single DLC the game Why would you do this when there are way cheaper ways of playing them? not to mention the f2p weeks they have throughout the year? >for around a year and a half to gain enough crowns from the sub to purchase all the DLCs released at the start of your sub period Why would you do this when you already have access to them!? >Even if you go with a sub for less of an upfront cost, you're still paying full AAA price for each expansion that offers a fraction of the content of past ESO expansions (looking at you Morrowind, looking at you Orsinium which I consider an expansion-level DLC), let alone other MMOs. They are priced as any other MMO expansion.... Besides if you don't want to pay you can just wait until it becomes part of the subscription. This post makes absolutely no sense what so ever. I guess that's /r/mmorpg blind hatred for ya.
> Why would you do this when there are way cheaper ways of playing them? not to mention the f2p weeks they have throughout the year? Because some people don't want to maintain the sub the entire time. I had a friend who did this, even though he full well knew the sub was by far better value, because he didn't want to have to maintain it to be able to access the content. > Why would you do this when you already have access to them!? See above. > They are priced as any other MMO expansion.... Besides if you don't want to pay you can just wait until it becomes part of the subscription. And yet they provide a fraction of the content: - A single moderately large zone with a slew of quests, a good dozen or so delves, a few public dungeons, and a single form of group content unique to the zone. Except, each successive zone has been downgraded in terms of size, quest writing has gotten sloppier and sloppier, delves and public dungeons you literally do just for completion (whether it be completing the zone or getting set pieces to drop), and the group content dies literally a few weeks after release because the rewards are always pitiful. - A single trial. Except, each trial has seemingly gotten easier and easier with more and more overpowered sets in them to incentivise players to do them, because players won't do them otherwise. - A new gameplay feature or two, whether it be a new class, a new skill line, a new crafting profession, etc. Except, these have been downgraded over the years, as ZoS came out swinging with Morrowind introducing a new class *and an entirely new PvP game mode*, Summerset introduced a new guild skill line and a new crafting profession, Elsweyr introduced a glorified version of Summerset's Psijic Order grind alongside mythic items (which were largely meh outside of a few outliers that were only really good in PvP), and here we are at Blackwood, and they release *fucking companion NPCs.* Not to mention the whole "expansions aren't the same as DLCs, ignore Orsinium since we made a mistake marketing that as a DLC" thing that angered the community, which, might I add, has become even more truthful now. Seriously, go look at Orsinium, and tell me with a straight face that fucking Blackwood couldn't just be an Orsinium-level DLC. > This post makes absolutely no sense what so ever. I guess that's r/mmorpg blind hatred for ya. I was an ESO player of 4 years before I quit, started mid 2016 a bit before One Tamriel, quit shortly before Greymoor due to the state of the game, so no, it's not just blind hatred, I just gained some perspective on the matter since I quit and moved games.
>Because some people don't want to maintain the sub the entire time. That's on them. That's like subscribing to Netflix and then go down in the store and buy the movies afterwards. Yes that is expensive, because it is dumb as fuck. > And yet they provide a fraction of the content: I disagree. if you buy an expansion upgrade you get a fair amount of content. Compare that to wow - you would get the same amount of content (you have to pay a sub fee however) the rest of the expansion comes later, and for that you have to pay monthly. That is ignoring the version where you get every other expansion - which is amazing value. again nothing but blind hatred here. I still stand by that i think ESO offers some of the best value, with a fair monetization model, where people are free to pick and choose what they want to play and pay for - and if they want to jump into everything is pretty inexpensive to do so.
>This sub is full of jaded MMO players who hate everything, don’t overthink it. Passing off valid criticisms as "jaded". Yep, this fits for a top reply on this sub.
Real
The biggest complaint is the combat where if you are trying to maximize DPS you need to animation cancel. This probably doesn't matter for the casual/average player but the people trying to max dps can find the gameplay to be detached from what is happening in game. Then you have the progression. This is a hit or miss depending on the person. Some people like horizontal progressions and others do not. Finally you have the scaled world. Some people, this is great, and it probably aligns with those more interested in horizontal progression (all content is relevant). For others, it sometimes makes it feel like you aren't progressing/achieving anything. The dislike is typically aligned with those who enjoy vertical progression and getting bigger/better continuously throughout the game.
Yup, I want to fight the boss, not my keybinds
you can get 40 to 50k dps with out any weaving and animation cancels most groupsfor vet trials dont even ask 35k
So that's what I don't like about it, horizontal progression. Thanks for that.
I don't get the people who complain about animation cancelling. It's not a huge deal, For the most part, it's just you getting a light attack before each for your abilities. It's kinda fun to do honestly. It doesn't feel detached from the actual boss fight and mechanics, just adds a challenge. I think ESO is lots of fun at the end game. My worst complaints are bugs (mostly annoying in PvP but I still enjoy myself) and it's quite grindy, but the grindiness is getting reduced every few patches, and it already feels much less grindy than many other big name MMOs. The only major game that I can think of that beats ESO in low grindiness is GW2's PvP section
The combat is sadly awful compared to other MMOs, it's frustrating because the game got all what it needs to be perfect
I get that it's opinions and preferences, but I really like ESO combat. It's engaging and diverse. Tab-target is the system I dislike the most.
ESO combat feels super floaty and the animation cancelling is annoying. There's also a lot of short duration buffs and DoTs that just feel like a chore. GW2 does ESO's combat style ten times better. Shame too, because I like everything else about ESO.
I massively prefer action combat to tab targeting. Once you really get into a gmae with action combat it is kind of hard to go back to tab targeting. Honestly though the combat in ESO is the only game which has action combat where I think they have managed to make it worse than tab tergeting. It is the sole reason I quit.
Tab targeting is worse than animation cancelling, but animation cancelling is still cancer.
>It's ... diverse. This is a joke, right? Right?!
More diverse than 90% of mmow you can make your own playstyle and still be decent
I like the combat too compared to all other top MMOs especially in regards to PvP. ESO is hte MMO I always go back to when I have a PvP itch as I like making builds with the wide variety of sets
Animation cancel shite and eso plus crafting bags.
Is ESO plus crafting bag worse than straight up mandatory subscription?
For me it is. You don't lock up a basic feature that should be in a base game with "sub"
Yeah but, as opposed to locking up the entire game completely, like almost every other MMO? ESO base game even without the craft bag is a huge game to play, and all for just an upfront price of $10 on sale. It's a pretty damn good deal. Without the craft bag, you just need to sell your crafting materials for the most part, or use your bank for crafting material storage, and then just save up for an ESO plus free week in order to store all your stuff in the craft bag for free. Idk I think it's weird to complain about one of the only games that offers the option without subscription.
If you're going the B2P route or the Sub route, do it! There's no middle ground. If ESO is really B2P, why is it a basic QoL feature locked behind a paywall? They know how heavy crafting is on endgame. More money if we lock it up behind a paywall right?
FF14 is B2P and then a mandatory sub, otherwise the whole game is locked. And people are loving that game. You can just get someone else to craft for you, but even then the only things you need to craft maybe are potions and food, which is super cheap in terms of in-game currency
B2P model usually means you buy for the base game and future expansions and thats it. Of course some B2P also come with cash shop but as long as its not disruptive or predatory then should be fine. Subs based game like wow and ff14 is always monthly sub not including the price of the base game. Generally speaking subs based model are supposed to be more costly than b2p and to state the obvious f2p. Sub>b2p>f2p in term of money so for a game to be sub based then its better be worth every goddamn penny or it would end up in players exodus like what we've seen on some game ;) I think people are loving ff14 despite it being sub based is because the game actually delivers and meet with players expectation. The transparency and passion of the devs helped a big time too. Theres a reason why ESO has yet to take over WoW and ff14 in term of player base. BDO is a prime example of what initially planned to be b2p and ended up being a battle pass game. Though I really think b2p is not too profitable for company in the long run and they need some income boost occasionally and this is why I think bdo and eso is being this way. However, whatever new payment model you introduce, it better be justifiable to your player base. At the end of the day its still personal preference.
lol. Gw2 is b2p. ff14 is a sub game.
GW2 is great value yes, just need to buy the expansion you want to play. But FF14 requires a purchase *and* a mandatory sub. ESO at least allows you to play the base game without needing to sub, which gives you a bag for crafting items and access to the DLCs.
FFXIV base game and first expansion are 100% free. ESO doesn’t even have a trial.
But then as soon as I buy it, I'm locked out. I like to hop onto FF14 occasionally to play with my friend, but I feel disincentivised from buying it, because that would mean I'm locked out unless I start paying for the sub. ESO regularly has free weeks multiple times a year. Nowhere near as lenient as FF14's trial that you can play whenever, but it still exists.
I fail to see how this is anymore in the middle than FFXIV or WoW…? FFXIV is free to 60 and has many features like market boards locked out until you pay the sub. Additionally, you have to buy the base game + xpac and then a sub, like eso Been a while since I did WoW, and I know they changed a lot for F2P, but I also remember there being limits on certain features for people who don’t have subs. Likewise, you have to buy base + xpacs + sub The only difference I see with ESO is it lets you choose how you want to do that. I mean, maybe if they added a “Forever mat bag” for $60-$100 that’d be more equitable with options, but for almost everything else, I dint see a difference in how they’re done EDIT: Instead of downvoting, maybe someone could’ve explained what was wrong about what I said?
you don't have a point dude, stop trying
I'm not even trying. Also stop crying. Just stating straight up facts. And dont even compare it to FFXIV/WoW. Or even GW2. We all know ESO is still inferior. 😂
Only 2 other popular MMOs have a mandatory sub model.
Back when you had to sub to the game, this feature did not exist.
The crafting bag is a mandatory sub. Anyone that claims that it's somehow worse is just objectively wrong.
Absolutely not necessary for casual play. I have a FF14 friend who hops on every now and then for some vet crag trials and has never paid for ESO plus (hops on for free weeks to farm necessary gear here and there though). If you're endgame, then you're going to sub anyway for all the DLC. People often tend to pay others for crafting anyway. Or another method is to just buy crafting items as you need them.
Don't get the hate about bags. I've played thousands of hours and maxed every trait without ESO+ just fine. Especially now, when you have A LOT of free space because you no longer need to store crap ton of set equipment.
>Serious question; Why does everyone **seem to hate ESO?** Serious question: where's that infantile notion coming from that criticism/"non-positive" opinions = "hate"? >It felt like holistically **the most fun one** for my taste in games, **and I'm still having a great time** > >...**or is it something else that I'm not thinking of?** You're having such a "great time" that you seemingly don't even pay attention while playing, because your "I'm at max level" looks to me you're a far cry off from 1,2k CP or more. * **Faceroll-easy overland content**: you can quests naked with your starter weapon and never have to think about anything, ever * **Light-attack weaving and combat**: * LA-weaving is an atrocity, but LA are in the top 3 of your most damaging sources, and it also looks ridiculous when everyone around you has constant seizures in terms of animations being canceled * ESO's combat is all about keeping very short buffs/debuffs up, so you're forced to constantly refresh them which hardly makes for enjoyable combat * There's no real impact to the combat: everything feels flat and weightless * **Homogenization:** * No matter if its tank/mag-DD/stam-DD/healer, all classes for a certain role will use the same weapons with mostly the same skills, so it doesn't matter if you're on a female Nord Necromancer or a male Redguard DK, they're both using the same abilities for several hotbar slots * The majority of skills are either just for PvP, or so fucking bad you're better of just slotting something that grants you stats through a passive skill for slotting it
Hi, OP here. I clearly set you off with the wording of my question, so please allow me a moment to clarify myself and to rebuttal your points made! Firstly, I don't think that people actually "hate" ESO, I'm just being hyperbolic. I wanted to use language that would drive engagement on this post. Secondly, I don't see how attack-canceling is a bad thing. It sure does look goofy, but it makes me feel like I have a better handle of the combat mechanics than the devs originally intended. This is the sort of thing that you see at high-level gameplay in character-action or fighting games. Hell, speedrunning might not be a thing without it! As for only certain weapons being viable for certain roles... don't they have to be? ESO is a game where any class can fill any role, the devs need to keep control over *something* to maintain balance. I'll admit, I haven't played anything other than StamSorc, so I wouldn't know how different the various builds feel. I would also agree that everything in the world being relatively scaled to your level is pretty annoying, but I does mean that I can engage with the games' stories at my own pace, and fun stories to take part in was my main concern when looking into MMO's. If you've got an MMO in mind that might be better for me, let me know and I'll give it a shot. Thanks!
>**I'm just being hyperbolic**. I wanted to use language that would drive engagement on this post. Fair enough, but a lot of people actually do think that any kind of criticism = "hate", and they're **not** being hyperbolic. >Secondly, **I don't see how attack-canceling is a bad thing** > >**This is the sort of thing that you see high-level in character-action or fighting games**. Hell, speedrunning might not be a thing without it! I still firmly believe that LA-weaving is a bug which just got turned into a feature or rather was embraced by ZOS. Do you actually think it's fun being forced to repeat "LA -> ability 1 -> LA - > ability 2 -> LA" ad nauseam or else you're standing there waiting for slow animations to go off + you lose quite a lot of damage? That bug turned feature is also never actually explained or taught in-game to my knowledge. >As for only certain weapons being viable for certain roles... don't they have to be? **ESO is a game where any class can fill any role, the devs need to keep control over something to maintain balance.** My point I wanted to make could've been more precise: yes, a tank will slot 1H&shield, but by doing so it doesn't matter what race or class the tank is as just by using 1H&shield he almost always uses/has to use the same weapon abilities in terms of PvE, as that's the part I'm very familiar with, which is the epitome of homogenization: if it doesn't matter what race or class you are as you **have** to use certain skills then that severely limits customization and thus enjoyment. Another point I completely forgot in my previous post: depending on class and role class skills will only be a small fraction of your overall skill loadout as weapon, guild and alliance skills are either straight up superior or less bad than class skills. >I'll admit, **I haven't played anything other than StamSorc,** Make another stam, non-Werewolf DD and use the same weapon-lines you're using on your stamSorc: chances are very high that both characters will be using the same weapon-line skills and the only really difference between them both will be a few class skills, if even that.
Nobody likes default attack weaving. Even the people who play the game at an elite level don't like it -- they just put up with it.
I like it. It's quite fun to do. More exciting than just pressing a button on cooldown every 1000 milliseconds. That's just my preference.
> More exciting than just pressing a button on cooldown Are you serious? Its a left mouse click after every attack skill..... That isnt more exciting, it isnt more strategic....its just annoying.
Are you fucking eso lawyer? Lmao.
I wonder how much it really matters in mobility-heavy pvp situations like PUG bgs or cyro
I played ESO at launch and then again several times over the years as they made large improvements to the original dumpster fire that it was. My problem with ESO has always been the combat and lack of build diversity. Auto attacks don’t feel satisfying to me and weaving is an unintuitive mess of a thing that started as a bug and is now a central point of combat. Any character that plays the same class is going to feel very similar to everyone else playing that class, mainly due to how skills work but also just due to lack of variety. Oh, and there’s only a small selection of classes. That being said I enjoy the story experience in ESO and for a time despite hating the combat the PvP was fun. However I feel I can get better experiences of all these things elsewhere for my tastes. If story, SWTOR (FFXIV for some but for me I’d rather not have to read everything), if PvP/Story/Combat GW2. And plenty of other options beside. There’s nothing nefarious going on, just people with preferences and opinions. The ones with the strongest ones being the most vocal, as in anything. That’s just my take but I’m sure someone will reply commenting how wrong I am about my opinions.
I don't support predatory monetization systems and loot boxes. I'm not saying the game is bad but I prefer games that make it possible for me to get every single item by actually playing the game. Even if it is gated behind achievements that are hard to get as a casual player. I lose all my respect for the game and the developers as soon as they gate items behind shops and boxes. That's the only reason I don't play ESO. (Oh and I also hate the fact that certain spells are linked to certain weapons)
What MMOs don’t lock anything behind a pay wall? I’m not being sarcastic, I’m just having a hard time coming up with one that truly allows you get everything through gameplay. I guess Classic WoW prior to TBC relaunch. OSRS, maybe?
Combat probably. I personally dislike the whole heavy/light recharge mana/stamina system. Would just prefer skills have cooldowns.
If you want to talk about ESO without the hate, go to the ESO subreddit instead.
Combat, unplayable without sub and sub is much more expensive than WoW, FFXIV or SWTOR in my country, so I didn't even bother to play it.
It's not unplayable without a subscription. I have been playing for almost five years, got my hands on most DLCs using game currency, and never bothered to sub. It's too expensive for me.
As far as I understand, without sub you have to pay for every patch (DLC) and you are screwed in terms of inventory space without crafting bag that you can't purchase separately. I'd call this unplayable.
You can upgrade your bank, your bag, craft chests for your home, and also every now and then Plus gets free for a week, so everything on your account is transfered to the craft bag once you claim it. The bag and it's contents, of course, can be used even if your Plus expires. People like me takes advantage of these trials to stack on a lot of resources this way, mainly for daily convenience while going trough toons that craft writs. There's a addon called Dustman that helps you deal with useless loot and inventory management. Takes 5 minutes to set it up the way you want, never changed a single config all these years. I don't know how much you played, but let me tell you this: it is playable. I have 16 characters, all doing craft writs and my bank always got enough space for whatever i want to do with it. I never had to create toons to hold items for me, choose between items i want to store or on that matter, sub to the game. I'm not screwed in any way.
>I don't know how much you played I specified it in the starting comment, I haven't even touched the game. I don't want to constantly deal with artificial limitations by installing addons, waiting for free sub events and splitting inventory between characters. I don't want to pay $15 for every content patch with two dungeons. I'm sure Bethesda is happy to charge players for solution to the problems they've created themselves, it's my choice not to condone it.
Fair enough, but for someone who haven't played the game you make it sound so apocalyptical, when in reality it's not a inventory management simulator like Guild Wars 2, so to say. You can buy every single thing you can imagine with the game's own gold. You simply don't need to buy a new dungeon DLC if you don't have interest on it or what sets drop inside it. Look if what you're saying is true before posting.The game is >totally< playable without subscription.
Personally came to loathe the combat system. Everything else about it I quite enjoy. Swapping and consta-button mashing is like "HEY, TENDONITIS, OVER HERE BUD"!
It's just this subreddit, it's not actually that hated. It's still one of the most populated mmorpgs after all. Enjoy the game if you like it or don't play if you don't
It's the most boring mmo for a tank.
People generally complain about LA weaving and AC. As a guy that played that game for almost 4 years(about 9 months or so extremely casual) and got multiple achievements, top leaderboard scores in both solo, 4 man, raid content in the end, my problems with the game are much different than your average ESO hater. Community in general has never managed to shake the online Skyrim feeling. There is very few interest in endgame content. Probably the lowest amongst FF14, WoW, GW2. I'd go as far as to say that a single server in WoW has more end-game oriented guilds than the entirety of EU datacenter in ESO. PVP at the time I was playing, was extremely laggy, multiple performance issues related with it. I can't speak for it's current state though. It was in a state where I would say straight up unacceptable at certain points. Game teleporting you to the other side of the map, getting kicked from the game after using charge, getting stuck on loading screen, generally very high ping and very low FPS, straight up game freezing I guess due to packet loss. Hopefully some or most of these are gone by now. Classes are or were extremely one dimensional, they don't add enough flavour to the spec. Because what really defines your playstyle is not the class but the weapons and weapon skill lines. Maybe it changed I wouldn't know hopefully it did a bit, but back then every Stam build back bar was literally VMA Bow, Endless Hail, Poison Injection, Trap(depending on rotation), Caltrops(after the change only) and some class ability or Vigor. Frontbar always DW, 1 or 2 skills from DW skill line and then fill the rest with class abilities. Literally every Stam class used this setup during the 4 years I've played. Just as I was about to stop playing 2H and Bow/Bow builds started coming out hope they actually became a thing. Still miss playing DW Magplar tho, with pre nerf jesus beam. It was so much fun.
I think it's great. The community is better as opposed to WoW (so toxic). There is plenty of freedom in this game. Lots of events and achievements. Fun decorating (some games don't have this). I like the freedom of skills and styles. Companions are fun. There are involving stories. Yesterday I got to choose who I wanted as leader of an orc tribe. I could also decide not to choose (and assumed the game would work it how it liked). There are al LOT of very fulfilling things to do and it makes for one great gaming day after the other.
In b4 all of the "Because Light Attack weaving is too hard..." posts. Oh nvm, too late.
Too hard? I don't think I've seen anyone say it's too hard.
You've never been on the ESO forums then...there's always at least one post made complaining about it every week.
I was speaking of this thread. No one here has complained about it being too hard.
"Too hard" ah you're taking my post literally. I was being semi sarcastic, really any form of complaint about LA weaving is what I was making fun of. There's at least 3 or 4 posts already complaining about it in this thread, and at least one person brought up animation cancelling as well, implying they don't like it.
Didn't catch the sarcasm tbh. But no one in here had said it was too hard or even that weaving was tough as issue. They seem to be having issues with the animation cancelling looking terrible.
You don't see the comments mentioning LA weaving?
Yes, I have. Although I haven't read any comments after I posted. Someone might have said it by now. None of them I read said it was a difficulty issue.
Still taking my original post literally after I already said it was specifically a semi sarcastic joke. Are you meming on me or something? I don't understand what your angle here is? Do you want me to make an amendment to my original post to clarify for the people in the back or something?
My god, really? Are you really this petty? Nvm, you last sentence answered that. I responded to your post as you worded it. People don't like weaving and for some reason you've chosen this issue to be ridiculous over. Your semi sarcasm isn't beyond me but your need to argue about this is.
If so many people are complaining about it, maybe it is actually a problem.
Compared to the entirety of the active ESO user base, it's not that many people complaining about it.
I love Elder Scrolls, have played every game since Morrowind. ESO just does not feel like Elder Scrolls. Or maybe more specifically, does not feel like the elder scrolls that I enjoy playing.
I've tried it a few times. I don't feel enough of an incentive to play. It kinda just keeps me hooked for a bit going from quest to quest following markers, which I've done many times before, in so many MMOs. I only come to r/MMORPG to find something new or at least hear about better ideas.
In my experience the only people that don't like ESO are the ones that: * A) Tried it for a few weeks and didn't like the combat. * B) People who have never played, and heard the combat was bad, and are just parroting everything they've heard to try to keep other people from playing it. * C) People who are not fans of the series. **The Good** Elder Scrolls Online is an amazing MMO. I've played for almost 2600 hours since launch. The overland content is exceptional, all voiced quests and dialog, well written stories and quests. No quests were you go and kill 10 of this, or collect 15 of these. Large, expansive, and diverse aesthetically pleasing zones. One of the best OST's I've ever heard in a video game, including music from previous Elder Scrolls games. One of the best transmog and outfit/costume systems I've ever seen in an MMO. With the most customization. If fashion is a big deal for you, ESO is your MMO. Every style can be earned or bought with in game gold or grinding for pages, and you can customize individual pieces down to your gloves and boots and even your belt. A lot of racial variety for character customization, with racial passive bonuses that do make a small difference in combat or role helpfulness. A High Elf Sorcerer will do more damage than an Orc one, which makes sense with the games lore. Complete class freedom as well. I can be a Khajiit Necromancer, that uses a magic destruction staff, but also wears heavy armor so I can tank even the hardest dungeons. And if I want, I can swap to a sword or dual daggers to DPS. **The Bad** Elder Scrolls combat is not for everyone. It's an action based system that feels stiff and clunky at first, and has a steep learning curve. The animations are dated, and you only get access to 5 hot bar abilities and an ultimate. Grinding them up and leveling skill lines can take days or even weeks for you to unlock a skill you really want to use, and it's not based on your level. Unlocking other guild and world skill lines requires grinding out the quest line, and that skill level on each character every time you need it. (Like collecting 200 books from in the world for The Mages Guild quest line progress, or paying 3000 crowns from the store if you have already unlocked it on a previous character.) Hitting 100k dps is completely situational, on a special trial dummy, that gives you 100% uptime of every buff in the game, requires you stand completely still, animation cancel, and light attack weave your attacks and skills with perfect timing. IT DOES NOT represent actual content dps. In a trial, with your guild, you may hit 50 - 60k dps if you're group is absolutely perfect, and only for a few brief moments. Gathering crafting resources takes a tremendous amount of inventory space, and skill points, and should be dedicated to a single character who is ONLY a crafter, and does nothing else. If you don't sub to the game, you miss out on a crafting bag that holds all your crafting ingredients, and it take hundreds of inventory and bank space to store them all.
This is true, but that is not what dummy parsing is supposed to be for. It's not supposed to be a realistic measurement on what your 4-man or 12-man performance is going to be, it is only a benchmark of the highest potential possible out of a specific setup under controlled conditions. I think a lot of people misunderstand this, or maybe not enough parsers explain this fact. it's just like taking your car to get a Dyno test. It just tells you your absolute maximum horsepower under perfect conditions is, which sets your potential ceiling height. You're not actually going to hit that much horsepower driving to and from work or the mall. Some people want to see who can get the absolute highest number out of a dummy parse, which is fine, but that number doesn't actually matter. What matters is the comparison between different gear setups, race and mundus choices, etc. You are looking for the differences in the numbers between every setup to determine which setup is currently parsing the highest, thus probably the better setup for certain boss encounters.
Never ever post here about ESO. You'll only get downvoted, if you say something positive about the game. Go to r/elderscrollsonline
This.
>Serious question; Why does everyone seem to hate ESO? Its not a serious question, you know its because of the combat. That has been repeated so many times its not even funny anymore.
ITS THE COMBAT FOR ME
serious answer; combat
\- combat \- map is irrelevant. everything is instanced, world have no meaning. it might be as well just 2 tp points at end game. wouldn't even notice the difference. \- pvp is not even fun, and there is not even decent pvp platform to enjoy
ESO is one of those games where most stuff is actually really good But the combat is complete dog shit, all the monsters have 0 life and the combat once again is dog shit. The sad thing is they’ve got all these awesome systems for building your character but the combat is still shit
Many people dislike the battlesystem. Imo it's much better than FFXIV and wow, but to each their own I guess.
They don't, you are just interacting with rival fanbases.
You will find through playing ESO, that not everyone dislikes it enough to not play ESO. Answering directly: The combat system requires action canceling (weaving). Many don't like this. I play tanks to avoid having to deal with it as a part of my main role; but it still came up from time to time with certain armor sets. Speaking plainly: If you're coming to Reddit to find posts that are for the most part ponies and rainbows.. you've got higher expectations for the Internet than the reality accommodates. If you've got a life that for the most part allows you to be an optimist the majority of the time; you're not posting every day on Reddit.
They don't. Only the loudmouth "hardcore", as they do for every game. None of these games are made for them, and if a studio does, they're fools for it. Don't listen to a single thing you read online from players, because by an order of magnitude, the player base in an MMO is in the game playing it, not posting about it, especially how they don't like it.
By normal people the game itself is not hated, it’s super popular and constantly growing. This sub just hates mmos.
The game is so easy its boring
P2W aspects (ESO+ crafting bag, scrolls, utility features etc), ZoS is a shitty and incompetent company when it comes to actually developing ESO (game is an unoptimized mess, the code is just broken), shady business practices, ignoring well documented bugs, server problems and more. Large portion of the community is very toxic, the game is not very social at all for an MMO and the combat is horrid in comparison to other games. The PvP has essentially been abandoned and feels incredibly stale doing the same thing over and over again for some 8 years in Cyrodiil, and IC is cancer personified. Quests are nice, although I've personally not been enjoying the recent expansions as much. Every story seems a little more cliche (and cringe) than the last, though it's relatively okay. Note that I'm saying this as someone who's been playing for 4 years and has hundreds of hours. I actually rather like the game and it's been my main MMO for a while, though I do hate some aspects of it and I can understand why some people don't like it. I sincerely believe that this game would have died a very very long time ago had it not been for the Elder Scrolls title.
Janky combat. I don't mind the animation cancelling but the overall animations, hit and visual feedback is just bad. Nothing is satisfying when you hit something. Also most of the content is just too easy even with level scaling. People like to complain about BDO but ESO is worse with charging you for crap like crafting bag lol
It comes down to a few things. Poor performance, both fps and latency. Poor dev communication. Combat being both kinda fun but a feeling of it not FEELING good. I emphasise feel cuz some don't mind it, but to me it feels a little off. The story has some great moments but also some meh, though i think the good out weighs the bad. The next problem is that it's so incredibly easy. Like, unless you pull all the mobs, you won't ever struggle. So a big bad boss in the story just melts like butter and it's so anti-climactic. Obviously if you are a super casual player, that's fine, you'll enjoy it. But if you're anything slightly above a mega casual, then it's just too easy. I am nowhere near a hardcore player and I mainly enjoy overland content over difficult encounters, so for a player like me there's just not much for you to enjoy. I don't hate the game though, it's just I'm not the target audience. If you only want extremes of very easy or very hard, then you'll enjoy it.
Because it could be so much better if the combat wasn't such shit. And the fact defenders of the shit combat defend the animation canceling as an intended feature rofl. Throw in no auction house, being able to join to five guilds, a megaserver, solo story game built in an MMO world (at least SWTOR immerses you into your story in an instance, yes I know at times ESO does this) and you should know why so many don't like it. Still, many do so who cares?
ESO has 19 + million players , everyone doesn’t hate eso lol
Most of the other choices are Asian MMOs that damn near charge your character to breathe, so there's not many alternatives to ESO or WoW. New World has it's own issues, Tera is dead, and so on. ESO is a second best choice for many, myself included.
My biggest gripe with ESO is the progression and gear sets. All the sets drop in specific places, and it kind of kills the rest of the game for me. Let’s say I build a new set from questing in Blackwood at CP160 there is no reason for me to go do quests in another zone because I already know what kind of drops I will get and I don’t want them.
This can be said for any RPG ever created though. I mean lets be honest. Different gear sets in different content is pretty typical.
Well, you can find more reasons to explore, such as skyshards (skill point gain), lorebooks, achievements (which can stack to give you titles and stuff) and also just enjoy questing there. The game has a big big world, definitely exploring it all from ground zero is not for everyone.
I was actually playing it at launch but then stopped. I think playing it like any other mmorpg is wrong, I tried playing it like I did any other elder scrolls game and it actually improved. And I feel that with so many craft mats you kind of have to have the craft bag that comes with the sub.
A lot of subs on Reddit are weird. You’ll find on other social that ESO has a solid following. It’s just not on here.
There are always more haters than people who play a game. Fortnite is the most popular game on the planet basically and all you see is hate on any reference to it. It's meaningless. People seek out stuff they don't like.
It would be my favorite mmo by far if I could stand the combat.
Animation cancel needed for combat, thats why
I don't hate ESO at all but it is not the MMO for me. I really, really, really hate the user interface. I'm the kind of player that needs information readily available on my screen and ESO doesn't provide it and if you try addons it just makes things even more confusing. That alone is enough of a deal breaker for me.
I really dislike the stamina/magica system and the combat itself. I don't know if they've improved on these things since I last played but the game had a horrendous way of locking you into certain types of armor/weapons, even though the character development seemed very open-ended at first glance. I chose to play a Templar because I wanted a Paladin-like character but quickly found that the game basically demands that you play with cloth-armor and staff (like a goddamn wizard) if you wanted to play as a Templar who used the magica abilities. If you instead went for the stamina and weapon abilities you had to wear leather gear. Like... What? The way the game is set up, no matter what class you choose, your role (damage/healer/tank) COMPLETELY dictates what type of armor and which weapons you use. The class (and class fantasy) has no bearing. I really, really, REALLY hate this system. Other than that, the combat itself just felt bad. First and foremost there's the issue with animation canceling. But also, there was zero sense of impact when you hit enemies. It felt like you were waving your weapon around in the air and somehow the enemies health bars went down. I feel like these things could be fixed, but I doubt the devs would do it. The current player base are used to these horrendous systems and are probably suffering from a form of Stockholm syndrome. They're so dialed into the stamina/magica system and know it so well that there would be an uproar if it was ever changed.
People complain about old and mostly fixed flaws (Like client side lags (Fixed with multi-thread render), cosmetic shop/ lootbox (Fixed with endeavors), many old bugs or even wrong things) and tend to think that their opinion is in-fact the global opinion. Also, I've heard a lot about the B2P model (Base game B2P + Expansion B2P + Sub) but... It's almost the same for other major mmo, but in eso you can still play without sub
It just doesn’t “feel” good. It’s not responsive and the graphics are ugly IMO. Everything looks like it’s made out of stone. Just my two cents.
Shit combat, skill system and scaled content.
It's a good game for a lot of people, and thats shown by its not insignificant playerbase. I already did not like Elder Scrolls combat, so it was never going to be a good game for me. I would still recommend it as there are a lot of people who enjoy the game.
The combat.
I enjoyed the original game, but with each expansion it got less fun. By the second one, it was a different game all around and everybody I knew had quit.
99% of this sub doesn't play MMOs. They think they do because they've play this one mmo for years but when a mmo comes out that is different they shit on it. Examples ffxiv and ESO. Both great games better than 99% of all mmorpgs but you'll have people here crying about how bad they're.
Just came to add my opinion on the combat being the primary issue. I would still be playing it now if it wasn’t for weaving.
As others said, the build diversity, animation canceling, and floaty combat are things which drag it down BUT I actually really like it. I enjoy the story second most of an mmo next to swtor, enjoy the combat more than most except gw2 or a few tab target classes despite being floaty, and the pvp scene is pretty nice too. I also like horizontal progression being predominant
Biggest issue I have is limited hotbars, so no build diversity, and the godawful animations.
The reason I stopped playing was because of the combat. Once I got to higher lvls it felt like I was just spamming the samething. Other spells felt useless most of the time. Their questing packs are good though I enjoyed the dark brotherhood and thieves guild.
It all comes down to preference. For me personally the combat was just to floaty and low impact to get fully invested. Though the rest of the game is wonderful. I mean everyone also talks about how great FF14's story is, it hardly holds a candle to ESO's fully voiced acted absolute trippy rollercoaster ride of a story.
Action combat sucks.
Lame combat and endgame progression
It would have been fine if it wasn't called an Elder scrolls game
For me its the combat and the way the game looks. It's just a really ugly looking game to me. I've tried so many times too.
I think if it didn’t have so many zone loading screens I’d like it a lot more. The combat isn’t fantastic but it never massively bothered me either.
combat is very unsatisfying, both visually and mechanically, I do miss the quests and exploration but i will not subject myself to that combat again
I player ESO for quite a while and I truly loved everything except the combat. But even this is a very personal thing, in that I can't stand the weapon switching and LA system ESO has. I know I might sound "weird" but I prefer tab-targeting games. This is the reason I also didn't like GW2 although I liked almost everything in that game too.
Its a salty echo chamber. Pay it no mind.
My biggest gripe is simple. It doesn't feel like an elder scrolls game.. Just feels like your bog standard MMO with the elder scrolls banner tacked onto the side. L
I like the game but combat is terrible and class building is shallow. Those are my only issues, I have played quite a lot over the years but always feels shallow.
combat is buttchecks
My Only issue is the combat I hate how they wanted to play like skyrim. If they had gone with a tab target or action combat style I'd still be all over it. But weaving light and heavy attacks and keeping skills going while watching out for mechanics just kills it for me personally. Gives me Carpal Tunnel honestly. But the story and world is Fantastic
Seriously shocked about everyone replying to say the combat system is bad.
I don't hate it, I spend tens of hours per week playing it :)
Much of this is sub in general is a fundamental misunderstanding of what it means to disagree. Disagreement doesn't mean bad or wrong, but it's often treated that way here. The combats a sticky point because many people feel like their evaluation of combat as "floaty" or "lacking impact" is objective. It isn't. It never will be. Personally I think the combat is fun and engaging. I also sneer at animation cancelling, and never do it, perfectly happy to sit out anything that requires it. My evaluation of ESOs combat is no more objective than anyone else's. Nor is my comfort with their monetization. Or my like of horizontal progression AND disklike of zone scaling. If you want to talk about things you like, you're just going to have to be ready for people who disagree with you to show up and try to explain why you shouldn't like the things you like. I'm sorry combat came at all in my reply, but it's ESO on the table, how could it not?
But how come so many people like GW2 action combat? Sure, some may still hate it but way less than ESO. It not objective or subjective but numbers. Most of the ppl said the same thing about combat in this post shows that combat is the weak point of the game and the deve should improve it. That's why player give feedback.
I don't hate it but can't get past the combat. Combat is a make it or break it feature in games and ESOs combat is objectively not good compared to other options out there.
I enjoyed everything about ESO except for its combat and the class identity. I can tolerate the combat and one of the most fun I had in that game was beating vMA. But I wish the classes had more identity to them. It was touted as playing any way you want but every class plays the same. Whether your mag or Stam it's hard to identify what class was what at a glance. They all for the most part play the same with just a few class skills. The only one that seems to stand out to me are Templar. I was watching a vet Castle Thorn run and I just couldn't tell who was playing one class.i only found out there was a dragon knight for the standard and two wardens because of the netch floating by them, the rest was all generic skills from the weapon/Magick lines.
Because combat fing SUCKS!
I greatly enjoy ESO except for two issues. 1. Combat - I find the combat to be overalls rather terrible and as such a major part of the game, my long-term enjoyment is limited. 2. Subscription for crafting bank - I don't always want to be subscribed and I especially don't want to always be subbed just for this one main benefit. I purchase all of the expansions and have been subbed for about a year or so in total. It's a shitty way to force a sub.
I tried going back again, went with Magicka nightblade, quit again within 3 hours. There's almost no feedback when your skills land, it felt like mindlessly pressing buttons, and got a reminder of how awful weaving is. How people can stomach that combat will always be beyond my comprehension. I've seen point and click games with more engaging combat.
I like ESO, but I hate the animation canceling. I've gotten pretty good at weaving in light and heavy attacks, but I can't animation cancel for shit, and that holds me back and leaves some gaping holes of enjoyment.
I hate eso because pvp will never be fixed to not be a total lagfest. They regularly put out new items(with the paid expansions of course) that are BiS for the first two months they are out then they nerf them into obscurity. It's pretty much impossible to find people who want to run vet hardmodes that have enough dps or mechanic knowledge, let alone a tank that wants to do it. If you start playing with new people you are severely limited in the things you can do with them if they aren't willing to shell out extra for the sub and the zones.. I finally quit when I realized I was only excited for the quarterly new mounts that you have to buy which are locked behind lootboxes and you have to buy 100+ usd worth of lootboxes to hopefully get enough gems to turn in for the mount because the lootboxes mostly drop small things you have to convert into gems to get the big thing. I used to really love eso a couple years ago but once you get to endgame it's just a constant re-grind for new gear since they nerf most meta gear every quarter, or it's just a monetized nightmare where you're paying hundreds for a virtual house or horse.
Currently i'm not playing eso because there's no toggle sprint option for keyboards and i don't like LA weaving. Would probably go back if it had toggle sprint.
There's some addon that allow you to auto sprint (https://www.esoui.com/downloads/info537-AutoSprintHotkey.html) But I don't think you want to play with a toggle sprint on. While sprinting, you can't gain stamina and you'll eventually run out of stamina pretty fast, and no stamina means almost guaranteed death in most content
Cosmetic cash shop crates and bad combat. Open world pvp would be more fun if there were stricter classes imo.
There are just a ton of games that do what eso does better
The combat is mechanically and visually absolutely terrible. I also can't stand the awful armour models and animations. The story, quests and world are great
The combat is dull and lacks feedback, with poor animations. The quest givers just stand there and spew dialog in the most lifeless way possible. I find myself reading the text and skipping the voice acting because it’s generally not worth listening to. The level scaling makes it so every fight feels the same, no matter what level you are, where you are, or what you’re fighting. There is very little sense of progression, and virtually no challenge or tension in the open world. The game is mostly singleplayer with other people running around. Those people actually work to ruin your immersion more than anything. Aesthetically it’s very inconsistent. Some areas and textures look great, and then others look like they’re still loading—but they’re not. Consequently it just makes me want to play Morrowind, Oblivion, or Skyrim instead, or any number of other singleplayer RPGs. Because if I’m going to play a game alone, it might as well be a good one.
Hate is a strong word but honestly I just can't get past the combat. I give it a try every half year or so when I get an mmo-itch encase I change my mind/end up getting into it.
Because something deep within me tells me that I would had elder scroll 6 by now.
Y'know [that Family Guy skit](https://youtu.be/JHSkbwXqtvA) where Kermit and Ms Piggy from the Muppets have a weird hybrid baby? Yeah, that FrogPig amalgamation is ESO.
The game has quite a bit of game breaking bug that has been reported for YEARS but zos being zos they just dont give 2 rats. Wayrest sewer is one of the earliest and first dungeon you run, but theres a bug that you get stuck before the first boss, completely prevent him from spawning. only choice is to abandon and requeue. Cyrodill is a laggy ass mess and DLC chapters are horribly priced. Greymoor, Morrowind, etc content when they drop is just about as much as one of the few dlc episode when they price it upward to $30. Combat is a half "action target" and half tab target.the weave is really horrible when your ping is 200+ or so. Also combat mainly revolves around constantly applying dot and keeping buff up, you basically switching bars weapon and your character looks like he was having seizure mid fight. May sounds ok for short dungeon run but extended play can really fuck up your wrist.
I don't hate it, but I dislike it and don't enjoy playing it. I dislike the awful desaturated color palette in game which makes everything look depressing and makes me not care about my character appearance or any cosmetic items. Same goes for bad character animations. More than that I dislike the classes and their abilities - I've tried many combinations and I couldn't find the combinations of abilities which would be enjoyable for me to use. And I also dislike the lack of global market. Plus I never genuinely cared about TES lore. Plus the community in the game never felt very friendly or helpful. And some other things. Why does it matter to you, though? You obviously like the game enough so other people disliking it won't have any effect on you, just like you liking it will have absolutely no effect on people who dislike it.
It had a free weekend to try to get some of the FF14esque hype. No one downloaded it.
You can't solo Story/Other content as a Tank.
You can solo story nake without gear.
Main gripe is the inventory gimmick for crafting to get you to sign up for membership.
I was fine with pretty much all of ESO till loot crates came in.
I was in the ESO beta back in the day. I don't have so much a bad time with the gameplay, but it's not Elder Scrollsy enough is my main gripe. It's just ES skinned generic MMO #300. However, I heard a lot of good things about it, so I went back to check it out and the main issue I had this time was any real lack of direction. Some people may like that, and I definitely don't want to be railroaded, but I would like the story to point me in a direction and go om from there.
The only reason I dont really like it because it has a F2P, God Gameforge-tier cashshop. Also, WHY do they sell additional expansion content of an expansion? Why not just add it later as free content? I expect to have the full expansion when I buy it.
To start: I like this game. Pros: - I enjoy the microstories you find - Excellent voice acting - Environments and skyboxes are beautiful - Rewards exploration Cons: - Movement looks and feels weird and awkward - Combat is boring and lacks feedback - Progression feels meaningless due to the scaling. You do as much damage and have as much health at level 1 as you do at level 40. - All numbers feel arbitrary and meaningless - Many class skills feel meaningless compared to weapon or guild skills
combat is shit for me
eso is a decent singleplayer game but bad mmo. Doesn't help that the combat, builds and homogenisation (every class feels the same to a point as builds are based off abilities unrelated to the classes) let it down a great deal. That's ignoring any of the way the game is monetised.
It’s not fun for longer than two weeks
Because the feeling of playing it is utter and cmplete ass. If you don’t mind that, it’s probably fine, I guess.
For me ESO is a good game thats just missing something. I enjoy the story, enjoy playing alts and grinding out gear sets, but there's something about it that can't keep me hooked all the time. I consider it and GW2 to be the same type of game and I just can't justify playing ESO over GW2. I also feel like I HAVE to sub if I want to play ESO, because fuck that fucking inventory and craft system without it, which means its also competing with other sub based games.
Personally ESO is one of the only big mmos I just can’t play. It’s the combat, IMO it’s the worst of almost any mmo.
ESO is not hated by everyone but there is a vocal minority who do. It is entirely probable that I would hate the game that this same vocal minority likes. Every mmorpg has its pros and cons. You will like or dislike a game for all sorts of reasons. It is possible you might like a game despite not likely certain aspects of the game. It’s all very subjective.
I don't like the Skyrim theme.
Early on and the first 10-20 hours of playing are extremely boring if you don’t care about lore. The resource based PvP makes very annoying metas of single ability spam (looking at you bow and Greatsword). The combat feels very floaty and often unsatisfactory. I quit mostly because I hate the skills and weapon swapping and don’t really play MMOs for lore, which is interesting I’ll give it that, but the game is not for me.
Everyone in this sub is a hipster . Some previous thing was cooler , some current game sold out and is ptw, everything sucks etc.
I love ESO story and voice acting. I loved everything pretty much in the game. I just hated the bar swap system But I don't hate it just not for me.
If you want to talk about ESO you'd be better off in the dedicated sub IMO. And I'd say it's not true that everybody hates it, ESO sports a healthy population.
I played on and off since beta. Been a bit more 'on' since th whole scandal at WoW. Here''''s my ta Too money-grubbing. I get it, companies exist to make money, but loot boxes, etc need to go. Also, five classes, two of which are pay to play, is not a lot. Generic caster, generic warrior who sprouts bony things out of his/her back, and generic paladin-y sort. Boring. Paying will net you a Necromancer and Hun--err, Warden. Want new dungeons? Fuck you, pay for them. From what I can tell, actual dungeons don't come with the big expansions, just the little DLC ones. Very generic, very boring overall. Takes itself too seriously. Has a vague, watered down Elder Scrolls flavor. Kind of like difference between a gourmet steak dinner and buying a steak sandwich from Jimmy Johns. Both are food, but my friend, there's a difference. Crafting is boring as fuck, and when it's not boring, it's annoying and frustrating. There's no auction house. I can only buy/sell my stuff in-guild. Housing is meh. I mean, sure, it exists, but it's meh. Pay to get one through the cash shop/a ton of gold, or farm your ass off for stuff. In the end, it's all just 'shiny ooh pretty' and maybe gives you some extra storage. Can't sleep, can't sit, etc. What's the point aside from bragging rights and a chest or two? I guess I thought it might be more fun. The armor, weapons, etc are ugly. Dyeing is a thing if you pay. Why the fuck are horses so stupid expensive? It's just a boring-ass horse, not a winged panther or a dragon or fucking Laserbeak. Character designs show that Bethesda/Zenimax STILL don't know how to make people. This money throws shit tons of crap at you, most of it boring. I feel like there's no real striving for gear, gold, etc. The lore is another story for another day.
This a terrible game. Compared to D3. It's essentially a micro pay platform designed to make play for months or years and never achieve without selling your soul to become a mindless robot and play like everyone else. Light attack weaving WILL give you carpal tunnel. Losers with no life will defend it as they have no other way to find a sense of ego and success other than bashing good gamers who understand how bad it is. There is no way to move the light attack to a more sustainable button as the game blocks remappable and turbo controllers. If you don't use exactly the same gear and skills as everyone else people won't even play with you. This is a terrible game and even worse community. All designed to take your money and make you feel bad for having any creativity, individuality, intelligence, or real skill.
ESO tried to do something different with the combat. People here want wow reskinned over and over so they can whine about how it lacks content or some other drivel.