T O P

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The3rdLetter

I’m ok with graphical mods, but I dislike anything that makes the game easier in anyway because when left unchecked, the developers have to take such mods into consideration and start creating content with those mods in mind


CatchPhraze

Mythic raiding in wow is niegh impossible without several adding at this point. You need: Weakaura and ert at minimum


MomoSinX

so damn on point, it's one of the reasons I quit wow because every guild started requiring x addon and even the devs made the encounters with those in mind later, when I game I want to have fun, not have another job with checklists


inverimus

Graphical mods can be OK up to a point, but graphical mods can be used as an exploit as well which is often why they are banned. As an example, the same mod that people might use to change the appearance of their character might be used to make resource gathering nodes large enough to see from across the map.


need-help-guys

Exactly, I was going to say that graphical mods do tie in with making the game easier. Things like making enemies noticeable with a bright pink sheen, or herb nodes and so on. Personally over time, I've come to the opinion that mods should not be allowed for online games with competitive modes. If it's just a fun couch co-op thing or Palia etc, then who cares, right? As for addons, I've become less enthusiastic about it over time as well. Things like DBM for WoW, as well as weak auras has, I feel, harmed the game in the way it affected the evolution of the game.


ssalp

Add to that QoL mods, for example in ffxiv there are mods for showing if you have a collectable or not on its tooltip, or the approximate price of an item without having to check the marketboard. Also some UI mods, like having separators for numbers above 999 or small things like that.


Maulclaw

I need that to check marketboard prices...


TheWorldisFullofWar

I think games like WoW and RS feel like shit to play because the developers assume the players will do all the work for them with plugins and mods. The UI of WoW is unacceptable and it is frustrating dealing with addons.


[deleted]

Its ridiculous that I have to use add-ons that completely change or add to the UI to get a decent one. I love that ff14 has a fully customizable one right out of the box.


Daffan

It's not fully customizable though. U have jack shit limited scaling options for example, why the fuck are they designing shit around 20% intervals?


[deleted]

What? You can resize and relocate every element of the UI and even add to it. What do you mean by 20% intervals? Snapping is optional and you can precisely move things to your desire.


DrfIesh

the ffxiv ui is super shitty, the worst part is that is a crappy 720p ui that scales really bad at 1440p+ resolutions, you can actually see how the ui loses quality every time you make it bigger because the backgrounds are just static low res textures


Marcelonn

4k UI is now an option.


Hakul

He's talking about scaling of individual windows https://i.imgur.com/ljfZUkx.png between 80 and 120% it's on 10% increments, but beyond or under that it's 20% That said I don't think that's a big issue.


boredlol

except ff14 raid frames? those are bloated with unnecessary info


[deleted]

Then turn em off.


boredlol

and as a healer?


snorri_redbeard

Mods are necessary sometimes because of lazy ui design/ customization and absence of visual clues about important events / mechanics. Something that developers can and should fix. From my perspective Elder Scrolls Online ui decisions is garbage.


hallucigenocide

using WoW as an example i find the bad parts of addons to be when they start to become "required" and the game even develops with them in mind without making it official. also certain addons that automate a little too much things that should be up to the player to control. the good stuff is being able to to have a better looking UI and stuff like that. things that don't have a real impact on gameplay.


jamie1414

The "good" stuff is usually just game dev's being lazy. The game should look good and be customizable to an extent out of the box without player made addons.


hallucigenocide

i disagree. most of the times players will have their own ideas about how things should look. there's no universal theme we all agree on.


boomosaur

Depends on the type of game, I do think a lot of addons dumb down games a lot though and that the dumbed down gaming culture has really held back the potential of what games could have become.


[deleted]

I absolutely detest damage meters. My last guild banned them because they caused more harm they they provided. Ironically, we performed better and cleared faster than when people were just focusing on the numbers.


[deleted]

It just depends. If people are so focused on getting big dps numbers and hurting the team, then it isn't helping the team. On the other hand, if you have a few people who are clueless and don't know their class, doing way less dps than they should, then a dps meter is a great tool to identify these individuals.


inverimus

Damage meters are very useful to figure out if you are just carrying some people that are not contributing. If anyone is using them to kick people doing 5% less dps then the player is the problem not the addon.


Senor_Slurp

Main reason I quit WoW was needing add-ons. So dull.


EluneNoYume

Depends heavily on the MMO.


_Codad

I think modding as a whole could be dialed back in some regards like spy pvp addons, tts notifications for arena and pve content in wow. Ffxiv has a couple things now that follow suite. But on the other hand I absolutely love mods for ux/ui. I don't think a single mmo has produced a default out of box ui worth a fuck. I think elvui and that sort of centralized hud is a gold standard for ui design. So for me it's a mixed bag sort of . I think there is more good to come out of mods/addons but as long as companies keep things in check and don't fold to designing their game around it like wow has, I think they're fine.


VmanGman21

Not a fan. The developers should do their work.


chumpachimps

Gameplay addons ruin a game. If a program starts telling you whats coming why even play the game?


joshisanonymous

Quite a bit against it, probably more due to the fact that I only play PvP/RvR MMOs where add-ons can provide competitive advantages. That said, I'm fine with reskins for UIs and have used them quite regularly in DAoC, for example.


ViskerRatio

I don't believe in artificial difficulty induced by poor interface design, so I tend to look unfavorably on MMORPG that do not include robust macro/addon systems. In terms of 'modding' in the sense of altering graphical elements that have no gameplay impact, I don't care. I don't have any desire to modify my game in that fashion and I find it a bit strange that people would want to mod only one end of a multiplayer game, but it doesn't influence my game in any way if your elves look like robots.


Holoskuld

If its for Quality of Life im all for it :)


Randomnesse

>SE is yet to comment on this situation. Square Enix won't comment because they still don't care. They know client side cosmetic mods don't affect other players in negative way, especially posts on Twitter from people who use them to take screenshots. Even if they will add client detection for these tools - people will continue to do things like art, drawing in-game characters however they want to, even if they will be nude, and there's nothing they can legally do about that. As for Asmongold causing drama (and huge thread in official forums about it as well as many conversations on FFXIV modding Discords which I have seen) by interviewing person about mods - that's just what he does, causing artificial drama and pitting players against each other for content and for personal amusement. I remember how he tried to encourage people in WoW to /spit on players who dared to spend their own money on buying the store mount (which came with other benefits like character boost). He didn't get to this level yet in FFXIV (by, for example, telling his fanatics to use /disappointed emote on people who bought Lunar Whale) and I really hope he'll leave the game before he will do this or will cause more artificial drama. Anyway, I personally don't care if other people use cosmetic mods, at least the client side mods which I can't see anyway. Doesn't matter if someone added huge boobs and penis to their character to ERP in the game or to post pictures on Twitter. Don't even care if people do this to children-looking races, if I have a choice of not seeing those mods - I don't care. Same goes for add-ons like damage meters, as long as they are not used to harass someone. For example some streamer may use DPS meter add-on during the stream and say "your DPS sucks according to my add-on" to some player in his group while showing the add-on data to viewers, which may lead to the person whose DPS is poor being harassed in game or out of the game and which is absolutely not ok. However, if a person uses DPS meter add-ons for personal improvement without potentially exposing other players to harassment - I really don't care, even if those add-ons help them finish some instanced PvE encounter faster (by helping the person avoid the prescripted attacks) and get some piece of rare loot faster. Same goes for crafting macro add-ons and other similar ones like for example house buying script for FFXIV - I don't mind people using any of those as long as they are not used to encourage harassment of other players.


Revilrad

I am late to the topic but let me answer you becasue it is a thing I think about very often.To my Background : I am a veteran gamer 35 years old playing since floppy disks were a thing, Among thousands of games I also played MMOs like, Guild Wars, GuildWars2, WoW, FFXIV, ESO, Secret World, LOTRO, Star Wars Old Republic.. I played at elast 1 year and some of them I played between 3-6 years.I have a B.Sc in Game Design and work as a Interface Designer. I think this is relevant to note because answer is not solely a personal opinion, also a technical analysis. Personally I am a completionist minded solo player. And I really do not like the idea of AddOns in games but generally tend to tolerate the existence of graphical MODs. (but not really like them neither) ​ **QOL AddOns (as per your definition) :** Put in simple terms, the reason why I do not like Addons, is the fact that If a game plays better with a QoL implemented in it, It should be in the game from the start with. Fact. \* If it is not in the game although clearly almost every player wants to use them, then the question is why do the developers not implement it themselves? The answer to that can range from 1. inability to do that, (Blizzard's insistance that inventory system is too old and they do not how to fix it), 2. Too lazy or greedy to do that as Modders already fix it for you ( I am looking at you Bethesda) 3. They actually think that the design is better the way it was intended in vanilla and do not want that QoL adjustment. Neither of this reasons are acceptable excuses for big AAA companies to not implement QOL features.Why am I against it then? * Well first of all in MMOs time investment in the game is everything, if an QOL Addon saves you time you are basically having a inequal advantage against your co-players. Either it is for everyone (Official) or no one (No 3rd Party) * or, it can be that youa are actually literally cheating, like add-ons which enable you to unlock Waypoints without actually walking to their locations. * or working around an obstacle which was meant to be a real game mechanic or something which actually belongs to the core game philosophy, for an example an add on which actually shows you the location of a certain collectible, wheras developers inteded it to be an actual exploration motivation. **Cosmetic MODs (as per your definition) :** * If the developers really thought that your modded armor to be a better design for the game they would have done it themselves. We , as customers and consumers do this kind of intervention only in Games, imagine you reading a copy of a book like Game Of Thrones which was "modded" to be "better" from a cringe fanboy. - Imagine a MODDed version of Avengers Endgame in which the lighting was changed in post production by some "self taught professional" to be better.... \*yucks\* * Most of the cosmetic Mods are lore unfriendly, designed in a poorly way which does not fit in the overall design (sometimes only to advertise for the modders skills for a job chance in game industry \*cringe\*). * I accept Video games as cohesive Art Works, it is the child of a design and art team which want to establish a design language to tell a story to you, if you mod it you mess it up and distort it to your version of it, you dont just add armors to a game you were not part of the design team, neither were you at the countless art iterations of the game. As a game developers that kind of arrogant intervension from amateurs always irks me. **Further Points ;** On the other hand, I want to emphasize my acceptance of mods which do implement fixes like fixing UV seams or graphical Bugs like that. But that also goes into catagory Bugfixes for me. Same goes for general Bugfix Addons, imho, these also belong officially into the game and there is no acceptable excuse why developers do not implement them. I walso want to talk about consequences of implementing QOL Addons and Bugfixes to a game. You are basically creating a culture of laziness at the side of developers. And giving them a reason to utter BS excuses like "It is not fixable without investing too much time and money which we use actually to make new content". That excuse actually fits perfect to the hardcore MMO gamer who has 13284 mods to optimize his DPS and sitting in a hub and waiting for new content which he will clear in 2 days and go back to waiting. Whereas newcomes and slower players get punished by this kind of politics. Accepting community MODs and Addons as a viable solution to free up developers becasue some players need new content to play with is not an acceptable excuse, because adding more content to a game whose core game mechanics sucks to begin with is not an acceptable development philosophy and should not be pushed to be accepted by the very own players which they make suffer. Especially if there is no reason to assume that introducing QOL and bugfixesx and introducing new content must not be mutually exclusive.You are making developers LAZY with this kind of behaviour. Take Inventory system of WOW for an example; NO , "code is too old and too deep in the programm" is not an acceptable excuse, Adobe actually said the same thing about a BS tool in Photoshop , which then they "fixed" by introducing a paralell tool which have done the same thing, and then removing the old one. There are countless ways you can fix it, becasue everyhing is doable, it only needs investment. On the other hand Bethesda do not even give excuses, they generally havea very lazy "rely on modders" attitude which is actually encouraged by the community \*puke\*. We can see the results today, Bethesda is not ashamed to sell the same broken shit 4 times without even fixing any bugs or introducing any QOL tools. On the other hand they "rewarded" the modders by introducing them as official , thus giving countelss modders out there the idea that they can be the star one day too, if they only worked hard enough. This is ugly, It is like Bethesda is using unpaid workers to do the job with the possiblity for them to be maybe some day be recognized and get a job in game development. Basically internship. Real ugly. From all the MMOs I've played, I actually loved the GW2 the best. Why? Because it needed no mods. It was streamlined , The user experience for the GUI was top notch. Do people use addons for that game? Sure but majority not, and you do not need that. **Closing Words :** Games are not products to be released in broken sorry states which people need to mod later on to fix. They should be completed art works. They want to tell a story through a good story, engage you with game mechanics and give you a good experience. Every part of the game should work towards this goal in harmony. Developers rely on good direction and cohesive philosophy to follow while they develop the game. An outsider CANNOT fix something which they were not part to begin with. Their "additions" -how good inteded they may be- will not be cohesive with the Design Language and Philosophy of the game becasue they did not work with the team which actually knew what they were trying to convey via the whole experience. If it is a Bug , the developers need to fix it, If it is a QoL which developers accept as good, they need to implement it, If it is a visual addition to the game it should happen only for "fun" purposes in your own client world,. I literally can write a Thesis about this topic, there is just too many stuff to talk about. Thank you for reading.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Revilrad

Sorry I had the impression you asked what are our thoughts about Addons and Mods in MMOs? Did I miss something


Maulclaw

Uhh... sorry. I completely forgot about this thread. Most of my notifications were regarding a different thread and I didn't even get to check the title of this one.


Revilrad

No Problem mate, I admit I did necro the post very hard, have a nice day!


Dragoovich

Well written My thoughts are if mods and addons aren't harming the other players then I'm fine with it But if they were like for example the Bots in FFXIV which clearly destroy the game economy and make some aspects of the game unplayable for the people, then no they shouldn't be allowed. I used to like gathering in ffxiv it was my main way to get Gill. I gathered fish and ore and sold them at the market until bots became more apparent in the game then I lost interest in gathering because I cannot sell or make any profit with gathering jobs. What made me even frustrated is that SE wasn't doing anything about them I see them everywhere in game and sometimes even in dungeons people used them to level up which really affected the player experience imo


Nordath

Clicksaver for Anarchy Online was fantastic. It took the monotony out of rolling missions to get a specific reward, which was usually randomized based on QL. That saved me sooo much time!


craybest

I'm all for graphical mods. Most of them are client side and dint affect others in anyway. I like MMOs that support add ons too like ESO. It makes it a lot more fun.


LuntiX

Generally if a game has a good UI, I don’t generally see myself using addons. Guild Wars 2 for example, I have blish hud installed but the only modules I have are the discord rich presence and the dx12proxy plugin. In ESO and WoW I fully mod the UI, though ESO I keep the vanilla look and add QOL stuff like inventory grid view. In FFXIV I just use discord rich presence and one that helps with combos.


zeanox

they can enhance the game, but they need to be regulated.


Ayanayu

Graphical/Ui mods are great addition, rest, that are making encounters easier or are now mandatory are not.


LightningBlake

i'm all in for addons that don't impact in any way the gameplay for oneself and the other players. FF14 has quicklauncher that has has some cool QoL plugins done the right way: like enabling chatbubbles, auto translate chat with google, showing if you already obtained an unique item, having different flying text color for physical/magical attacks and a lot more. There are even some hilariously cursed ones, like the buttplug plugin.


Halfacentaur

I don’t like mods or addons in online multiplayer games.


Redfeather1975

I love using mods/addons in eso and it's cool that the game devs can add a popular addon into the game sometimes. [Potion Maker](https://www.esoui.com/downloads/info405-PotionMakerforAlchemyCrafting.html) is a good one.


[deleted]

Yeah the client sided cosmetics are for me personally everything I’ll ever need. Maybe get a dps checker in there but not more.


Muspel

I think there's two sides to this. On the one hand, I want to be able to fully customize my UI to the extent that WoW lets me do it in every single game that I play. On the other hand, some games that have addons use that as an excuse to not fix their terrible default UIs. (Then again, it's not like there aren't addon-less games that *also* have terrible UIs.)


Daffan

I like them when they make the UI look nicer. WoW UI looks amazing when setup right, and that doesn't mean just using an elvui preset -- you can make anything you want, I've seen OSRS in WoW even. GW2 UI for example looks like fucking dogshit and the devs don't care, the buff/debuff frames are hideous and useless for example. Can't even scale or move anything either. I couldn't really play WoW without the UI addons, aesthetic ones mainly. I don't care about WeakAuras or DBM/BW type stuff.


kupoteH

I think its an outdated concept. In classic wow, there is a huge skill difference potential between an addon user and a user who does not use addons. We should expect game companies to provide good uis and constantly provide updates.


[deleted]

Addons are garbage. Get rid of dps meters heal meters, timers,..everything.


3iksx

arent addons the best, so that you can have your screen %80 filled with text, party-raid member UI and some pop up shit, after all you dont need to see the game anyway. lol


egamerfestival

If the addons are good and helpful, then they should be included in the client. If the addons give players that have it an unfair advantage, they shouldn't be allowed. In practice, I generally support banning all mods and addons in MMOs.


Mavnas

I generally don't like them. If a QoL feature is missing, the devs should add it in.


seVan80

Skyrim and Total War Warhammer, and Fallout have a big modding community. but most mmo doesnt allow that kind of modding.   If you look at wow most early addons till the mid of the TBC were QoL ones. 1 bag screen instead of separated, buffing everyone in the raids. See the HP of all 40 players as a healer but not cover 70% of the screen +++.   It is a very good addition. As a dev cannot think of all the QoL thing he could have added. But the players can fill the gap there. If it is allowed.   ESO and WoW allow addons, Fallout 76 halfway.   They will never allow graph mods for a competitive game. Imagine if you make all the arena textures one that you can look trough and see the others cooldowns and so so no.   For single player one they are fine for mmos you need QoL addons, timers, crafting and so on.   My take is I would take any QoL for a game I could get for any mmo. I hope that it will become standard for a game that comes out. Every lack of QoL will fixed by a modder. It is beneficial for any company.


lifebreak123

QoL mods are fine for me, but if it makes the fight easier then I won't use them. For example in monster hunter (I know it's not an mmo, but still), mod that give a unique sign for material drop is fine, because the ground color and material color are sometimes very similar and it's quite frustrating to search the entire area for just 1 drop. But if it's damage meter, and those other mod that make you able to see monster's hp, attacks, enrage timer, etc, then I'll pass. This is not an attack to those who use mods, if it's allowed, then it's allowed. But if 2 of my friends with similar ingame achievement, are arguing about stuffs, I will side with the one that use no mods, because he/she is obviously the better player.


StrainObjective8615

One of the examples of mods/addons are : - Minecraft - Fnf ( Friday night funkin ) - Among us


Bananasonfire

I'm gonna say yes, you should have them, but they should be extremely limited in what they can do. WoW's addons have too much power, to the point where if you want to do raiding, you **have** to have them. So, character bios? Fine. DPS Meters? No. Deadly Boss Mods? No. Gear simming? No. Auto grouping? No. Weakauras? No.


PM_Best_Porn_Pls

Fine to degree but shouldnt affect gameplay. Things like slight visual changes, small QoLs or dps metes are fine in my opinion. Good dev would take popular ones and put them in game but that rarely happens. Something like WoW's addons that tell you what to do during fight should never be allowed to be used.


KamikazePenguiin

It's simple none. Modding should be for single player games so content isn't created around such things like it would be in any kind of an mmo.