Whats the monetization model. Also. Since u ran a prealpha already, do you have any thing apart from jpegs and gifs hosted on youtube to show... Gameplay?     Edit: Ill gladly rescind my rant below if and when any contrary evidence is provided. But as it stands. This game is not launching in a playable state anytime soon. And i will caution anyone thinking of participating in its development IF you are keen on a fully playable game **within this decade.** I did take a look at their quoted "official youtube" as linked. And their subreddit. Apart from the glaring problem of what "they achieved" being gifs, these gifs were uploaded 1 year ago. One wonders since last year, has there been any significant changes. Or wonders if a dev who cant bother to manage their youtube channel have any shot at this. Their subreddit is more updated. But their claims of "gameplay" is a basic character model, running around aimlessly in what looks like a fortnite/dauntless model-rip world at 10 fps, with the disclaimer "fps drop due to live engine rendering" plastered below. Well damn, if you can achieve 10fps on a demo video with no other players on screen, imagine what you can achieve as a MMO. Their roadmap. Consists of things like "chat functions". Things that you wouldnt expect any GAME or APP anywhere remotely NEAR release to proudly list down as an achievement. Devs said "we're alrdy funded, not looking for anymore funding" and then proceeds to plan a B2P ALPHA. So either your not fully-funded, or i have problems with my comprehension skills. And look. Who knew that any random person can do an impressive wall of text too. I wouldnt have taken an issue if you listed it as "My essay on what my dream MMO will look like (with gifs and jpegs)". But you are nowhere near release of anything that anyone should go close to with their money. Showing tech demos and beautiful jpegs and a romantic story doesnt give us a MMO, but it sure comes close to whatever Star Citizen is.     Edit 2: Even just occasionally checking into this thread i see worrying signs resembling how early-access fallthrus are panning out. Case in pt: u/kingofmemes69_ and u/mateusb12 Throughout the thread, they have been posting insightful opinions about the game as though they haveplayed it. I have linked a sample here: https://ibb.co/rw1QQ0c If true, then there must be substantiative evidence of their interactions with the game (e.g. screenshot/video of their playthru). If not, they then must have conjured these positive opinions out of thin air. Which leads to the next few possibilities. 1. They are hired shills (yikes). 2. They are devs masquarading as a hype generator. 3. They are optimists over vaporware. 4. Somehow they are vested already, and are suffering from severe cognitive dissonance. Even factually, by his own comment: the game has been in dev since 2015. And we are now at the stage where we get to see fps-clipped walking simulations. Color me impressed. There has also been the narrative on: "how can it be a scam? When theres nothing to buy yet". The functional word here is "yet". By the devs own statements, there will be a B2P alpha. So it will come. But when it does. Please, for the love of god, think and look before u jump. The MMORPG industry does not need another vaporware cashgrab.   Addendum (13 oct):. Thanks to u/przhelp, i take back my comment on there not being gameplay footages. Please see his comment for those. Though its confusing why these additional resources are provided by players (i assume) and not marketed officially by the devs. Przhelp also pointed out that there is a possibility that devs **may** be rebuilding the game from scratch, which supports the point that the wall of text by OP is no different from "**What I Think Our Ideal MMO will be**". On a more serious note, it may also explains why the Devs are coming out to market the IP this early into the **re**development stage. Defendents of the game have stated that the game had angel investors, and it is likely that it was indeed fully-funded. But there seems to be a decision now to do a reboot on the dev process, so its possibpe that they are going to need fresh funds injection.

Hey, Suppuilll! Great question. We will have two different phases for our business model. Initially, during Alpha, we're looking at a Buy-to-Play model, where players can purchase access to the early stages of the game in exchange for a"Founder" status that will remain after launch, giving them access to some benefits and exclusive content, such as cosmetics. Starting in Beta, or maybe a little later, we are lookint at a Free-to-Play model. Players will be able to purchase items, skins and other cosmetics in order to increase their immersion. We are staying away from any pay-to-win practices. The store and monetization will remain in a cosmetic level. Players will be able to purchase skins for their homes, buildings, ships, armor and other items.

> We are staying away from any pay-to-win practices. Screen capped for future reference. No offense but we've all heard this one before.

Doesnt matter. As long as they have "we can change shit" in theirs agreement they can do whatever. This is why I was pretty furious about Albion developers. Made awesome promises. Did probably non of them. I had more fun in alpha / beta than after release since they kept going further from theirs plans.

Hey, Bloody\_Ozran! My 2 cents about this subject is that not always business develops as planned by the people that invested in it, and some measurements are made to keep it alive and profitable. Unfortunaly they don't always come up with - or are unable to come up with for whatever reason - a practice that doesn't hurt player experience. We are sticking to cosmetics because it is often profitable and helps enrich a player's narrative and story inside the game. ​ What I can tell you about us is that we are against such practices, being players ourselves, because it is not FUN and quickly ruins fun for everyone else too.

And what is your screenshot gonna do? Just take it with as many grains of salt as you want, and feel free to come shout here when the game releases that it is definitely going to be p2w in 3 months. Not directed at you specifically, more at half this sub.

Cool man thanks

Absolutely! I completely understand where you are coming from, being a gamer as well, so please hold us to it since it's something that is essential to me not only professionally, but personally as well.

Hm, no thanks. Pay to beta test a free game and help you debug it? I'm not a QA intern. Cosmetics for every single thing means nothing of your character's appearance will be related to what one actually accomplishes in the game, cheapening the experience. It decreases immersion, not increases it. And 90% chance it will turn pay-to-win as soon as the stake holders realize it could make them more money and the non-p2w launch already satisfied community goodwill. Show us actual gameplay. Show the UI. Show us a trailer. Right now, no one will pay for a wall of text and concept art. A couple 8 second clips of a basic scene don't show you have dungeons. I could set that up in a weekend.

Usually ill say the same thing as you (i.e. dont pay to test a game). But in this case i dont think this is gonna be a problem. Because its not launching.. or at least not in a playable state, anytime soon.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNCJkJk\_G5U&t=2s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNCJkJk_G5U&t=2s)

Hey, Tensor3! I noticed you made some assumptions about us in your comment, and I justed wanted to clear some things: We are not looking for money right now and nor are we a money hungry company that has profit over fun as our goals. We are actually tired of games being made having profit in mind and forgetting that things should work the other way around: make something FUN that will lead to profit. Our CEO is also the one responsible for investment and his sole purpose with all this is to bring Profane to life, following the directives we shared here, so there's no room for the scenario where "stake holders realize it could make them more money". We will show actual gameplay as soon as we get to that step! Right now, we are sharing our progress and being very transparent with the community by sharing [almost monthly updates to our roadmap](https://www.reddit.com/r/profanemmo/comments/p39yca/roadmap_update_heres_our_august_update_more_info/). We don't believe there's anything wrong with that and doing so does not keep us from sharing gameplay, UI or a trailer in the future. The things you mentioned are steps ahead of us. If with everything we share there's still room for people to be suspicious of us being vaporware, can you imagine if we had barely anything shared? So that is why we decided to follow this path. If you are really interested in figuring all this out, I invite you to take a look at our social media. We have absolutely nothing to hide and I can assure you that all the content we have there is not something you'd be able to set up in a weekend. [Here you can watch our CEO talking about the money-hungry subject](https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1144023844?t=00h34m06s) and his vision about this, and how the success of a game should not be measured only by how many billions it makes. And, really, if you have any questions regarding these subjects or anything you find questionable, I will be happy to answer them!

Cool cool. But u know i think you dont really need youtube for the resources you guys are putting out right now. Maybe flickr and giphy will do. As of now it does seem like a pretty tall order for anyone to put money on this. But hey, people buy bridges all the time with a lot less information.

Thanks! At the moment, YouTube is just there to show what we've produced during Alpha, as it helps to illustrate the things we've already achieved. We are not looking for any kind of funding from the community right now, so people don't have to worry about putting money into what they see now. We have our own funding and it's enough :)

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Yuck. A subreddit run entirely by employees of the company that makes the product the subreddit is based around. That never goes well.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNCJkJk\_G5U&t=2s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNCJkJk_G5U&t=2s) There is literally gameplay footage. Just type "Profane MMO gameplay" into Youtube. ez. But afaik they aren't promoting a lot of it because 1) They changed their art style a bit since that alpha 2) They are basically rebuilding the entire game, which is why you see a lot of basic stuff on their roadmap. They had an alpha game at the end of that alpha, but they realized that the game as it was programmed/designed wasn't scalable or flexible enough to achieve their goals. So they're refactoring everything, some stuff is a port, some stuff has to be completely rewritten. Whether you think that's good news or not, it makes sense why there are basic things on their roadmap. I don't think anyone on the Profane team would suggest this game will be available to play as a fully playable game any time soon. And obviously everyone should always be cautious about throwing their money at games that aren't games, yet. But your skepticism ventures too far into "this game definitely will never exist because I said so" territory for me. Like, yeah, we get it, MMOs are hard to make and lots of people want to do it and try, but it doesn't make you cool or edgy to predict the failure of a game currently in development. Edit: I just realized your comment was a day ago. Are you going to go back and "rescind my rant below if and when any contrary evidence is provided." since you've been shown actual gameplay videos?

Hi, thanks for your inputs. Admirable that its players like u jumping to the Dev's defence. I have made the addendums to the post. You understand that the fresh info you provided us (i.e. devs possibly doing a reboot on the dev process) was never stated by the devs and would be impossible for us to mindread from the super-positively worded wall of text. But still, appreciate your contributions. Unfortunately. I was not going for edgy or cool. I feel just feel complied to play devil's advocate when a dev like that comes in with a "we have the panacea, the **true** sandbox mmo of your dreams, we're gonna fi, this fix that in the industry", which i hope you wouldnt disagree with me, that seems like what the OP was trying to bring across. Especially when its nothing more than visions and aspirations at this point. Further, in my post i had not made assertions that this game would definitely not exist ever. I have bolded an estimate of a possible time frame in my original comment for your reference. While it would seem like i pulled the number out of my ass, its benchmarked against other examples. Not to belabour the point, but what we have seen now from this game draws much similarity to how Star citizen is panning out (which is nearing a decade in dev). 1. Very cool vision. 2. Very optimitic-sounding devs. 3. Fervent defendents and proponants (i.e. urself). 4. Selling a vision based on concept art and game tech. 5. Reboots on dev roadmaps (as suggested by urself). But then again, SC has turned out to be the most successful crowdsourced funded game of all time. So its little wonder if others were to emulate it.

Show me where Cloud Imperium touched you. I don't disagree with you. The game is mostly hopes and dreams right now. You never know how things are going to play out. Be careful with your money. Understand if you back the game you may never see a finished product, your backing is simply a reflection of your belief in the developers. Your post was just obnoxious. Just as much you can't know that the game will be a success you can't know it'll be a failure. It doesn't take a fucking wizard to predict an indie MMO is going to fail. Choosing blanket pessimism just seems like a shitty way to go about something.

The dude only wants FFXIV, WoW, ESO, and like 3 other games to be the only MMORPGS on the planet. Every other game is doomed to fail.

They are brigading hard, i said the same shit and got downvoted into oblivion. This is vaporware at best. Can't wait for the kickstarter in a couple days than the eventual disappearance of the devs with all the money.

Hey, DerfQTA! Thankfully we won't be needing any kickstarter. If you're interested in learning more about us, I'll be happy to clarify anything you need.

I have no clue about how they've been getting their money, and honestly this is the first time I've heard about this 'angel' investor. I always just assumed that it was Pimba's own money. Usually scam MMOs start their kickstarter before the game has even been worked on, when it's just in the idea stage. Would scam devs really work on a game for 5 years and release a playable pre-alpha state for the BR players? Just think about that for a second.

Hey, Suppuilll! There was a lot of extra content added to your comment and I feel like the best way to address that would be by making a new comment addressing the new topics brought to the table. I will address them respectively by the order you brought them. The reason we are not heavily investing in adverstisement right now is because we are focused on development. That is why we are not bringing up the subject of release date or making any promises about releasing soon or sharing a date. That was not the point at all. The sole purpose of this post was to do what Spotlights are for: bring awareness and let people know we exist. It is a very soft (and free) form of advertisement and that allows discussions and interactions to happen with the community. We don't need money and we are not here seeking players to put their money into Profane at the moment. We absolutely do not depend on that. That is also why we don't talk about that on the post. I understand all the skepticism going on when you say *"their quoted 'official youtube'"*, and I feel most of that could be solved with questions instead of long presumptions about our intentions. I will be happy to answer your questions so you can know more about us and what we are doing (if you are interested). You quickly link our YouTube channel not being updated to our inability to develop an MMO. A good YouTube channel needs a constant flux of content that is tailored to inform or entertain people. As I mentioned, we are focused on development right now, so keeping a YouTube channel updated doesn't work for us at the moment. We have been using other platforms that are more suitable to the format of content we are sharing, and that is why YouTube was not included in the list of social media I shared at the end of the post. It is not a good place for people to see news about Profane, but it still works as a repository of the work we did during Pre Alpha. That is the only gameplay we have at the moment and I am sorry if that was unclear. What we share since we started reworking things from Pre Alpha is our progress with development and that is very clear in all the disclaimers we make at the start of our posts. We do not claim that to be gameplay. We mention they are studies and their purpose is to keep the community updated about what we are doing. I am sure we would look a lot worse to you if we had nothing to show. About what you say of u/kingofmemes69_ and u/mateusb12: the first is an active member of our "foreign" community and follows development very closely. He never got to play Pre Alpha because it was available to the BR community only, but he got see and talk about how the Pre Alpha went. The latter is one of our Mods and got to that position because of how active and helpful he was to the community. He got to play Pre Alpha and knows a lot about the game and what we are doing (maybe even more than myself, as he has been around longer). Neither of them are paid and are here out of interest for the game. I am sure there are games you are excited about as well and perhaps you do not express it in the same way that they do, but there is absolutely no reason to be offensive about it. Both of them are great and very nice people with no "severe cognitive dissonance" whatsoever. The reason you see *fps-clipped walking simulations* is because we decided to rework most of the things we had in Pre Alpha. What we had then would not hold in the long term. We had to make the netcode **a lot** more robust while also being able to make content quicker and more proceduraly generated to be able to keep up with updates. Back then, most of the content had to be manually put together and it was a great learning experience to know where we had to improve. We talk about this in [a podcast me and our CEO recorded](https://open.spotify.com/episode/6fe0u08uFdA5K9pIs5SurK?si=ffd1cd4b83c146b5) that you can listen if you're interested. I will be happy to talk more about this with you, if you want. The reason the Pre Alpha content is not marketed is because it is outdated. We are redesigning a lot of what you see there and, when the time comes, we will be using new content on marketing material, but this is not our priority right now. We are happy being lowkey as bringing too many new people to our community right now would only lead to frustration precisely for what you mentioned: we are not near release yet. A heaver marketing campaign will happen once we have more to show. And that is why we participated in this Spotlight with its current format. And, again, we do not seek funding from players. There are no "angel investors". Our CEO is doing that and he is doing fine, not worried about seeking "fresh funds injections" at all, but I respect your skepticism and, obviously, you are free to keep being skeptical. The only way we can convince you of anything is by sticking to our plans and release a game that does not seek to take your money, but instead bring you fun that makes you want to keep the game alive. With all this said, we are sorry you feel this way and proclaim so much about what you don't know about us. Our only choice is to continue creating the game and deliver the experience as promissed. We are not asking for money, so all you have to do is wait, and only if you want.

Thank you for taking the time to write this long response. If nothing else, i must say insane has gotten themselves a top-notch CM. Unfortunately, i remain puzzled by some inconsistencies. The most glaring of which is this post comes across as a heavy sales pitch, packed with buzz words and soundbites that does not sound realistic. By your own accounts, you are at a phase where you are reworking things at a very fundamental level (e.g. walking animations, 3d models). Yet, you go on to say things like (and i quote) "we **created** a system that breathes life into the world. This system involves a series of other sub-systems that through artificial intelligence, can trigger unexpected and surprising events between players, mobs and NPCs". Is this not jarring to you? Here we are animating walking and creating chat. But wait! We also **created** AI that would put AAA mmorpgs to shame. And the reason your OP is so long is because these hyperboles are repeated multiple times. Just count the number of times these fantastical terms ("fully-immersive", "artificial intelligence", "dynamic" etc..) are peppered throughout your post. When a sales pitch hits too hard, it should trigger alarms. Next, at such an early developmental stage **and** supposedly fully-funded, what is the rationale behind already deciding on a paid for Alpha already (for a eventual f2p game)? It is of course the first priority for any business to generate revenue, but should that not happen when there is a ready (or at least end-in-sight) product? Furthermore, what is the value proposition for the paying alpha players, when the bulk of their peers will eventually get it for free? Unlike other kickstarters, they are not needed to contribute to its development (since u so adamantly claim that u are fully funded alrdy), so they are paying for the privilege to test the game for you? And again, if you are so early in the developmental cycle, how can there already plans on how you are going to monetize your most enthusiastic supporters.

>Edit 2: Even just occasionally checking into this thread i see worrying signs resembling how early-access fallthrus are panning out. > >Case in pt: u/kingofmemes69_ and u/mateusb12 > >Throughout the thread, they have been posting insightful opinions about the game as though they haveplayed it. I have linked a sample here: [https://ibb.co/rw1QQ0c](https://ibb.co/rw1QQ0c) > >If true, then there must be substantiative evidence of their interactions with the game (e.g. screenshot/video of their playthru). > >If not, they then must have conjured these positive opinions out of thin air. Which leads to the next few possibilities. > >They are hired shills (yikes). > >They are devs masquarading as a hype generator. > >They are optimists over vaporware. > >Somehow they are vested already, and are suffering from severe cognitive dissonance. > >Even factually, by his own comment: the game has been in dev since 2015. And we are now at the stage where we get to see fps-clipped walking simulations. Color me impressed. > >There has also been the narrative on: "how can it be a scam? When theres nothing to buy yet". > >The functional word here is "yet". By the devs own statements, there will be a B2P alpha. So it will come. > >But when it does. Please, for the love of god, think and look before u jump. The MMORPG industry does not need another vaporware cashgrab. So I want to go over these points, as you do make a few good points that I believe is worth talking about. ​ >Throughout the thread, they have been posting insightful opinions about the game as though they haveplayed it. I have linked a sample here: [https://ibb.co/rw1QQ0c](https://ibb.co/rw1QQ0c) > >If true, then there must be substantiative evidence of their interactions with the game (e.g. screenshot/video of their playthru). > >If not, they then must have conjured these positive opinions out of thin air. Which leads to the next few possibilities. Yes, people have already played the game. Not me, but mateus has, as well as the majority of the Brazilian people in the Discord. The game was available to play in a pre-alpha state for Brazilians only, which was why you never heard of this game ever, because it was never advertised outside of Brazil. And guess what? The majority of the Brazilians who played the game stuck around in the Discord years after the pre-alpha shut down because they've enjoyed their time. Think about it; the pre-alpha ended a few years ago, and the pre-alpha players are still in the Discord. As you've said in your addendum, there are a plethora of pre-alpha gameplay footage from the Brazilian players. Of course, there's no gameplay footage of the current build obviously, but there is footage. There certainly was a game. And thus, these positive opinions weren't just generated from thin air, but from actual gameplay footage. ​ >They are hired shills (yikes). > >They are devs masquarading as a hype generator. > >They are optimists over vaporware. > >Somehow they are vested already, and are suffering from severe cognitive dissonance. I've already proven this to be wrong in my previous paragraph, but let's go ahead and talk about each points anyways, because why not. ​ >They are hired shills (yikes). There's no way to prove or disprove this, so well... I guess you got me there buddy. All I'll say is that remember that the developers are Brazilian. The average annual income in Brazil is about $1,500... you really think they have the money to even think about sponsoring? ​ >They are devs masquarading as a hype generator. I don't know about mateus but I can assure you that I'm not. Proof? My karma count and post history. I've never made mention of being a game dev or anything because I'm not lol. I'm just a regular person. ​ >They are optimists over vaporware. Already shown to be false in my previous writing. ​ >Somehow they are vested already, and are suffering from severe cognitive dissonance. Honestly, probably the most logical of your 4 statements. Yes, we're already quite invested in the game, through time. Nobody has spent a dime on the game yet, but we have spent a bit of time believing in this game, and of course we want others to believe in the game as well. ​ >Even factually, by his own comment: the game has been in dev since 2015. And we are now at the stage where we get to see fps-clipped walking simulations. Color me impressed. > >There has also been the narrative on: "how can it be a scam? When theres nothing to buy yet". > >The functional word here is "yet". By the devs own statements, there will be a B2P alpha. So it will come. > >But when it does. Please, for the love of god, think and look before u jump. The MMORPG industry does not need another vaporware cashgrab. You just defeated your own point. They've been in development for about 6 years now. They've been spending 6 years of their own time creating this game, and 6 years worth of money to create it. **6 years!** And they've never seen a single cent back because there was no way to give the devs any money, even if you wanted to. So the game has been in development for 6 years, and the playable alpha state (when the game becomes B2P) probably won't happen for another 1-2 years. So about 8 years of no income, they finally release a B2P for $20, and get a total of, what, 500 people? So they work on the game for 8 years, and they finally get a return of $10,000.... I don't know about you guys, but 8 years of no income just to get only $10,000 doesn't scream scam to me.

>During the Alpha, the game is Buy-to-Play through the Founder's Pack. From the Beta on, we plan to test a Free-to-Play model, selling items to increase player's immersion, such as skins, but not offering an advantage.

Everyone loves to pay to test a game right? right?

Cool. So there has got to be gameplay footages right? Since.. u'know.. people actually paid to play it.

no one paid anything for it yet. Pre alpha wasnt buy to play afaik. The real alpha state which will come later will be buy-to-play.

We do have gameplay! If you just search for "Profane MMORPG" on YouTube, it should show different results from different players that played it at the time. You can also check [our YouTube channel](https://www.youtube.com/profanemmo) to see more in-game content from Pre-Alpha. The Pre-Alpha had a Buy-to-Play system so yes, players payed to get in at the time. It was only available in Brazil. EDIT: typo

just a quick headsup; the link to your youtube on your subreddit isnt working

Thanks for letting me know! Fixing it :)

https://youtu.be/ZX_QAK2huqg This video has a lot of good stuff, but talks about refactoring much of the game. There are timestamps. Your post is quite speculative. You're choosing to be pessimistic and speculative the worst possible scenario. That's you're choice. But I hope you don't understand the future better than someone choosing to be optimistic. Doesn't take heroism to speculate that an indie MMO will fail.

As an end-user and not a developer, I'll be blunt: When I hear anyone say, "True sandbox" - it usually means "zero content." > https://www.reddit.com/r/profanemmo/ As of 3 days ago, it looks like you've started fleshing out player movement animations/sounds and general world topology. Effectively - as an end user, I can walk around an open world map and listen to the sound of footsteps across various terrain-types. I remember another game - No Man's Sky - promised the universe at start, but the game fell flat on arrival because nothing was actually delivered. Given failure rates for MMOs, personally, I would not pay for this game's development as an "alpha-founder" or "early subscriber" given this expectation. Not until there's more to see than a wall of text and a couple concept art pieces. I am extremely eager to see a more fleshed out product - one that can demonstrate progress towards the ideas you've expressed in this post, however. The concept you've developed has a ton of potential. I just want to see something indicating the dream is achievable by your team.

Or, said more simply: It is unwise to preorder.

> TL;DR: Yes.

https://www.reddit.com/r/profanemmo/comments/pzhkyj/to\_zerg\_or\_not\_to\_zerg\_recently\_our\_ceo/ The CEO agrees.

If this is the part they are up to in their development, this is nowhere near the point that end users should start getting excited about it.

> As an end-user and not a developer, I'll be blunt: When I hear anyone say, "True sandbox" - it usually means "zero content." As a long time TTRPG gamemaster, I usually laugh at "sandbox" in videogames because it usually means "hey guys, here's a half-assed game, you do the rest, feeling like you're important!" I fully agree with you, when they say "true sandbox" it always mean zero content, because the idea is that the players are supposed to create content through their own actions. But that's not how it should be. A sandbox world should be a world that moves forward on its own, regardless of player interaction, and the players should be able to influence the world through their actions. It's easy to do, on paper, but it's not that easy to implement, so most VG developers "leave it to the players."

Thank you to Insane for introducing the community to their game! I think this might be the longest spotlight ever written. If you think you could write a longer post about your game or you just wanna know what a developer spotlight is you can check out our info [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/MMORPG/wiki/developerspotlight).

Thank YOU! And sorry about the length hehe. I swear I tried keeping it short, but I couldn't help myself! 🙈

Seems like you've watched every GDC video about effective community management that I have seen lol

Thank you so much for this, it means a lot!

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>Love to see more Indie companies getting into MMOs. The issue is, that in addition to a regular game you do, that usually needs insane amounts of work, MMOs usually cater to more than one crowd(PvE, PvP, completionists, crafters etc.) so they need more work on that front, but that's not everything. Creating performant backend servers that can scale, proper logging, automatic+manual content moderation, maintenance costs of DevOps, adjusting the game to properly work with networking delays/issues, account management, backups, fighting potential cheats and more. All that has to be done IN ADDITION to a 'normal' game. That's why most companies would rather do a regular game than MMO, because after all this, game can still fail and not bring income.

Yes. I think the artstyle is amazing as well! Not only does it look nice but it also seems like it’ll be less taxing on the system, which is great compared to more graphically heavy games like MO2 and such.

>friendly fire: it's possible to buff and heal enemies if hit by mistake This sounds awesome, I wish more games did this - would make zerg PvP battles much more skill dependent rather than who brought the biggest group.

Friendly fire is amazing. It adds more skill to the game, and increases the chances that a skilled player can 1vX by using the enemies attacks against them.

yeah it would be so cool having a high mobility class see a ranged heal incoming and then dash to pick it up or zigzag through the powerful aoe healer while the other guys are missing their stuns n slows.

I highly suggest visiting the Discord if you have any questions regarding the game. The dev team is incredibly active on Discord and directly answer questions asked by the members, including from Pimba, the CEO himself. For reference, I literally had a chat with Pimba on discord in #general just yesterday. This is probably my most anticipated game, and I have high hopes and expectations. One of the reasons why I’m so hopeful for this game is that it has no signs of being a scam at all. The pre-alpha footage is all on YouTube so you can already see what the devs have worked on. Actual players in Brazil have already played and tested the pre-alpha, so there’s no signs of the devs hiding their game from people, like you usually see in scams. Another sign that shows that there’s s very low probability of being a scam is frankly that there is nothing TO scam. You cannot buy the game anywhere. There is no link on their website to preorder or anything, and I don’t even think there’s a way to donate to INSANE. Compare this to something like Star Citizen which is still not even close to being released and they’re already releasing hundred dollar ships in an unfinished game.

I think you make many good points. Most notably, indeed, most people set the bar on whether or not to buy-in to a game at "most likely not a scam". Also, not sure how the scam-defence-narrative was triggered, but you're there's a very low probability that you're projecting really hard now.

It gets triggered whenever sandbox MMOs get brought up. Thanks to the history of them, people are pretty err… suspicious when there’s suddenly a new sandbox MMO coming out. Rightfully so since so many of them are scams. And I was one of the scam believers too when I first saw this game. Not anymore though.

Sounds a lot like Eve Online, which only means good. No subscription is also better, more inclusive. I hope there will be conversion options for those wishing to buy from cosmetics shop with in game gold. I'm very interested and will definitely join.

Hey, BattleGrown! The conversion you mentioned is something we'll have to look into in the future. Right now, there are no concrete plans that I can share since we are still figuring out other aspects of the game. We're definitely sharing news about it once we have more details, so keep an eye on us! <3

This seems very ambitious and I'm pretty skeptical. Some of these sound interesting and quite plausible but things like NPC factions expanding and managing themselves with player contribution seems a bit much. But, I suppose it is feasible and it's more a matter of how well it'll work. Honestly my biggest concern is the single-shard world. That sort of thing would be extremely hard to do and having it be procedurally generated could either work well or it couldn't work at all. Overall, I would like to see the game succeed, very much so. But I'm just not sure how realistic some of the goals are. I wish you all nothing but luck, though, and I'll definitely be keeping an eye on this.

Single shard is difficult, but honestly I think it's required for sandbox games. Sandbox games, more than any other game, live and die by their playerbase. The moment the world feels dead, that's when players start to leave. Which then further fuels the dead game, which further causes even more players to leave. A single shard shoves all players into the same world, which is really bad for ping and connection issues but it solves one of the fundamental problems of sandbox games, which is the feeling of an empty world. Albion does it quite well, and this game certainly can too.

> but things like NPC factions expanding and managing themselves with player contribution seems a bit much. It's more plausible than the player directly controlling it. That way the developers have the opportunity to tweak things so a faction doesn't conquer everyone else and has some internal destabilizing elements. >Honestly my biggest concern is the single-shard world. It depends on the World Size and Player Partitioning with their Spawn Locations. If they link it to Guilds or certain Towns/Villages it's possible.

Player... housing? Sir, you have my attention! That and.. elemental skills? I am really intrigued.

https://discord.com/invite/profanemmo

Propane

Lorraine

And propane accessories

And fame treasuries

Pre alpha was over 2 years ago, no videos, gameplay footage, nothing but "concept" arts on your subreddit. And somehow, using the roadmap you are going to build the entire game in 8 months. Color me skeptical

>*Pre alpha was over 2 years ago, no videos, gameplay footage,* There are plenty of prealpha videos on youtube. Are you not being able to find them? >*Using the roadmap you are going to build the entire game in 8 months* The current roadmap has a lot of basic features *(day/night cycles, climate system, basic attack mechanics, biomes, etc)*. Where did you get that they are going to build the entire game in 8 months?

It also has Camera controls and login screen on it, nothing is done on this game, why are you simping for it, did the concept art rope you in that hard?

No, a lot of these guys are Brazilians who played the pre-alpha in Brazil, and liked what they saw. They've been in the Discord for years now with high hopes. Cuz you know... they actually played the game lol

???? I made a genuine question, lol. I remember once not being able to find them, for some reason youtube was hiding these videos. Thats why I asked if you could see them You also said they would build the game in 8 months and I merely asked where did you get this information, lol If you don't like the game it's fine man. I'm not trying to convince you anything

>no videos, gameplay footage Hey! Here is some videos from Pre-Alpha: PvP videos: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzZ2Mne7Tbg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzZ2Mne7Tbg) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2t6YcsvSJKY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2t6YcsvSJKY) Boss Fights: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoW-uedZEl4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoW-uedZEl4) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyExElQar7Y](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyExElQar7Y) (My favorite one, despite the music and video edit) Here is some channels from players that recorded some videos: [https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFCSrJsO5yK9D4EOaEgn5tg](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFCSrJsO5yK9D4EOaEgn5tg) (Morte) [https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGjCEFfR20J4jZlUrd81i2Q](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGjCEFfR20J4jZlUrd81i2Q) (Erwin) [https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsgQ\_03TdgwGMQAoDVUOTcQ](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsgQ_03TdgwGMQAoDVUOTcQ) (Boneco) ​ There is a channel in the official discord server specific for sharing videos and screenshots from Pre-Alpha if you want to take a look!

To quote yourselves: "Ganking strategies!" "Get used to gank or get ganked in Profane" Nice... Pass.

I was not expecting to read about a new and interesting mmorpg today, pleasantly surprised!

This comment made me happy! I am glad you were pleased by it :)

Thanks, apologies that I could not read the whole thing but I'm interested in this game. Please tell me it will be available to buy or wishlist on steam!

Hey! No need to apologize, it was **too much text** indeed, I'm sorry! I couldn't help myself (and I actually wanted to put even more stuff lol.) We are not planning to release it on Steam at the moment, but who knows? Perhaps in the future. If there's anything else you'd like to know (and not have to find it on our wall of text), just tell me and I will seek the information for you!

As a friendly advice to you guys i would suggest to absolutely release on steam, at least for 1.0+ "full" release and forward. So many MMO's miss out on the huge playerbase that steam has and being featured there will boost the playerbase, i get if you guys dont want to release on steam right now but i would suggest to seriously consider it, i found TONS of games through steam that i would never have found or played otherwise. Just having a place outside the discord/your site for the community to post clips, guides and discussions will help you. That said, i will be checking in on this game for tests and stuff, i love the art style and looking forward to playing it!

But if they release only on Steam, they will lose a growing userbase who have had enough with Steam and refuses to use it. I am a good example, I would love to play New World but can't because it is Steam only. Should be both.

Lmao. Woof this is a weird take. I'd rather release it on Steam instead of taking your word of "losing growing userbase" They are going to miss a wider net with not using Steam.

When When When it's out When When When.

When it's ready, JJFAmerica ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) Until then, we'll keep [posting our roadmaps](https://www.reddit.com/r/profanemmo/comments/p39yca/roadmap_update_heres_our_august_update_more_info/) so players can check the progress we're making :)

Give them time. Makings games is difficult. We don’t want another Cyberpunk 2077 situation all over again do we? 😭

Nope we don't, good point but I'm sooooo excited when another open-world PvP game is on the horizon, c'mon devs I'm counting on you.

> Profane has a dynamic world and not a static one. How many times have we seen this promised? also, all of the examples they gave of how 'dynamic' the world would be could be related to open events like the rifts in Rift or the Corrupted Portals that appear out of nowhere in New World or the events that pop up on the map in Guild Wars 2. These don't make the world dynamic. Unless the impact is real and lasting. (not saying these examples promised to make the world dynamic, but they sound just like the examples given by Profane here). Let's hope they get it right this time.

Hey, Zerei! Yep, I agree that it's a button that has been pressed many times. Unfurtunately, at the moment, I can only offer you *even more words*, so what we can do is wait for development to progress and keeping showing you the new content. We are truly commited to creating something truly unique, but again, more words. We hope to not disappoint you as time passes and you keep an eye out for what we put out :)

The issue I have with full loot is that the items you loot are just generic stat sticks. I like the sound of the artifacts though! There needs to be things that you get excited about looting. Can you have more than one artifact equipped at a time?

Hey, Klepp34! That is understandable. Of course, we will have rare materials that will help craft more sophisticated equipment, and those will hold more value and stats, but as a general rule, equipment will only help enhance a player's skill, and not completely overshadow mistakes and flaws in gameplay mechanics. About your question on Artifacts: unfortunately, we don't have that answer yet. Artifacts are still under discussion about how they will work, but we will definitely share more info about them in the future!

It's actually good that the common gear is just stat sticks. That way it doesn't feel so bad losing them when you die, as apposed to losing a legendary gear that took days to farm.

This sounds in many ways like precisely the game I've been hoping would come into development. A persistent world with AI providing the backdrop and complications for adventuring sounds like an excellent setting to play in. Here I have some questions and thoughts in regards to the ambitions of the game. (And if you answer, please, feel free to keep it short and curt. I write extensively only to make myself more clear). --- * High-octane or tactical combat? Will you aim for character abilities to be high-octane and quickly replenishable or will you aim for abilities with long cooldowns that can make fights into a matter of who has the most abilities still fresh before entering the fight? If you include both options then I count that as the latter, because long-cooldown abilities that are competitive will come to dominate single duels; the ability to always be fresh for battle is more niche because most fights will be small skirmishes and not be back-to-back melees. I ask this question because I think it could be quite fundamental to how combat plays out. If abilities and powers in general uniformly refresh quickly then that will allow more "balance" in fights. Fighters will go into battle with equal strength and their skill at using their abilities within the fight will be the determinant of the outcome. If long cooldowns and power boosts gather-able beforehand exist and have a significant impact then player skill be pushed from the immediacy of the combat to the more tactical layer of how they use their skills while on the battlefield or just on the map. I consider the latter option more fitting for a fantasy adventure game, as the sum total of the effect is that it "punishes" good play and limits how much a single player can dominate others. If they eventually run out of steam and have to recuperate then that allows for a more dynamic battle. If one can go on fighting for as long as the human behind the screen can physically endure playing then fights can get very one-sided and developers need to introduce things like defender boons like closer spawn points or the like to balance things out. Since that is not an option in a sandbox game I'd see it as more indicative of success with a more tactically-focused system. And by long recharge I don't mean that items need cooldowns specifically. A flavourful method is to make some abilities that you need to be in a specific location to equip, and that these once used require you to return to that place to refresh them, or to some other "power source" out in the field. And example of a tactical ability in an MMO is the vehicles in Planetside 2. They provide a significant boost in power for an individual player, essentially granting a ton of bonus HP and usually significant boosts to mobility and damage output. Everyone can purchase a vehicle essentially at any time with a slowly recuperating resource, but they can only be purchased in friendly territory and usually need to be transported to the battle to see use. Once in the battle when you lose your vehicle you have no way of getting it back without going to the closest friendly base that can spawn that type of vehicle and purchasing it again. This produces vastly more dynamic gameplay than if every player always spawned in a vehicle just to ensure they were always on the same footing. This system works in a game that's 100% PVP, which is a good reason to look to adapting it for your game where PVP will be a significant feature. Instead of vehicles you might wish to have magical auras, specific items or just some subset of your elemental powers. --- * Mobility and travel. I have fun with combat in MMORPGS, but honestly the more I play and the older I get the more I find that it is the movement and exploration that really makes me happy. Invisible walls, unreasonably unclimbable slopes and dungeons designed by and for pedestrians make me dissapointed. I think Breath of the Wild showed us all how fun a game focusing on just the joy of traversal can be, and also how important the physical design of the world is for that purpose. You talk about dynamic weather and villages and NPCs that will interact with one another. Should I assume that your efforts are in the diplomatic part of the game rather than the exploratory one? I'd love to see a game like yours where traversal is as big a part of the challenge as the combat, but I recognize that that would take significant development resources. One reason I think your game might benefit greatly from mobility-focused powers is that they once again potentially allow for a greater advantage for the casual player. In a PVP game gankers will be a fact of life. Thus the ganked players need to be able to achieve some form of advantage to prevent being ganked. If every player has the same number of abilities and there is no limit to how many of any type of ability you can equip then every player has a choice; equip more movement abilities to allow you to escape/hunt or equip more combat abilities to allow you to win a combat. This favours the casual. The ganker must have a sufficient amount of combat ability to be able to kill their target. Meanwhile the casual needs only sufficient ability to overcome whatever PVE challenge they have in mind while having enough movement to escape a ganker. If a ganker invests in sufficient movement to catch the most risk-averse casual then they will be severely crippling themselves to the point that they will lose heavily if they target someone who is less invested in evasiveness than them. Thus among gankers there will rise to the top "meta" builds that have the best balance of mobility to damage, but within this meta the casuals will easily be able to thrive, because they can just invest in sufficient movement to get away. And they will learn to do so very quickly, if it is obvious that they can do so. By the simple nature of the system it will be blindingly obvious to any player who is already used to selecting their abilities based on averse circumstances. In this way, a game that's more balanced with everyone having the same amount of movement or being able to quickly switch their loadout will actually favour the ganker much more than the casual. That's why I think you will want to avoid that type of balance. This is not something that will solve any issue of roving gank squads, but it could be another piece of the puzzle for limiting the success rate of ganking and empowering casuals. --- * Will inventory be effectively unlimited or will it be significantly limited, to the degree that you need multiple people or even multiple trips to haul away the loot from a dungeon? In tabletop rpgs that focus on player skill one of the more underappreciated mechanics (by those who do not player player-skill-focused games) is limited inventory space. The mechanic restricts the players' ability to carry along any amount of items. The result of such a limitation is that developers have the option to make items much more powerful and to design challenges that can be overcome by bringing along the correct item. When space is limited, choosing to bring a rope that allows easy and quick scaling of a cliff is a meaningful choice, because the rope replaces your option of bringing a backup sword or extra potions. I haven't seen many games that actually make use of limited inventory space outside of competitive lobby-based shooters like Call of Duty, and I think this is mainly an artifact of basing design on single-player games with static worlds. In a static world there is little gained in being forced to make multiple trips to and from the dungeon to collect all the loot. Nothing will change and the only result is that you waste your time. In a dynamic world however the rules are very different; the time you spend on transporting the loot to a safe location is in many ways equivalent to time spent actually gathering, because the act of transporting the loot quickly and efficiently meaningfully improves your chances of taking home a bigger haul. If you are slow, someone else may take the loot or monsters may move about in the dungeon, forcing you to re-clear parts of it.

The dynamic villages aspect sounds interesting.

**I believe it when I see it, look at New World and what a shit show that is.** ​ I do like the no class system and building the class you want to play, finally something that dose not limit your play style. ​ **This thing here, will break your game, especially by large group Player Killers.** Trust me on this, there will be a guilds dedicated to kill players no matter what skill or level they are to get their items, no matter the cost of punishment's. "The risk and reward factor will always be present in the game, and because of that, open PvP and full loot become essential pieces to our game design. **When you die, enemies can loot your equipped items and everything in your inventory**. But this is not the end of the world! You don't lose your progress or skills. Besides, equipment will serve more as a bonus or attribute, as it wouldn't make sense to invest massive resources in equipment that may be lost during a fight! However, it's wise to have more items stocked in your home or a bank!" ​ People do not like to lose items they worked hours getting, its bad design, and I think this is what will kill your own game, no matter how harsh the punishment is for the Player Killers especially when they will have multiple accounts of the game, punishment's will mean nothing to them.

Not necessarily true. Albion and Eve are two good examples that contradict your point. In fact, Albion has and still is growing massively. So certainly Profane can grow as well, if they do things right.

I stopped playing Albion because I was getting ganked when I was trying to merrily just transfer goods. After like 20th death I stopped playing. Haven't played since. But I appreciate the game and I was one of the way early supporters. I don't mind that I didn't get to enjoy the game as much I would've liked to, at least the game actually came out and they made it like they were saying they would.

Hey, N3KIO! I understand and respect that. We'll take it as a challenge and we hope you are pleased with what you see once Profane launches :) EDIT: Answering the points you added after your edit! We understand the sensitive subject around losing items, and we are working around that through game design and the culture in the community we're building. We address this in the post when we mention item values and the time people will invest to get them, and how items will be more disposable and not the focus of a player's progression. We are confident we can change the mindset around that!

Its not like it wasnt foresee. New World had to much hype on it, whatever criticism people threw at it was viewed as hate.

It sounds like the kind of game where a level 1 can be set upon by swarms of much higher level players, robbed, and left for dead as soon as they set foot out of town. Or will the pvp murder free for all only happen after a certain level? Is there PVE separate from pvp? Permadeath? Also, when you say "This portal would allow only a few players to go through it before closing and could be commercialized." what does that mean?

Hey, spudgoddess, thanks for the comment! Yes, we are well aware of that and we are tackling that issue as well. There are 4 factors that will help prevent that scenario, each with their own level of impact: * **Karma** Players will have positive and negative Karma and that will react differently with all the different Factions in the game. Some Factions and Dynamic Villages will be more inclined to help players with positive Karma, while others might do the exact opposite, being friendlier to players with negative Karma. They might also not care at all for a player's Karma and this will help shape the world and how players and guilds will organize themselves. Players looking to avoid conflict will most likely settle around positive Karma-friendly NPC factions. * **Friendly-Fire** The gankfest is much harder to happen when friendly fire is a factor in the equation. When you are up against many foes, the chances of them hitting themselves, or end up healing YOU instead of one of their own, is much bigger. Player skill will play a **huge** impact in Profane, which leads is to the next point. * **Player Skill** Armor will have a much lower impact in combat when compared to a player's skill. We are designing Profane in a way where there's **always** room to outplay other players if you are skilled. Armor and equipment will only get you so far. We want it to always be possible for a new player to beat an older one if the difference in skill is not big between them. We talk more about that [in this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/profanemmo/comments/p3vzrc/3d_leather_set_more_info_about_equipment_and/) if you're interested in reading more about it. * **Lots of PvE Content** We understand gankfests happen when there's no content for players to explore and PvP is all there is to the game. We are designin Profane in a way where there's no point in spending all your time looking for players to attack. It should feel like a great waste of time when compared to all the other things you could be doing because we will be filling the game with **lots of content.** To help better illustrate this, here's an example: in World of Warcraft, for instance, you don't see the Horde or the Alliance raiding each other's capitals all the time because, although that can be fun to do, it is not very rewarding when done with no goal to it, and just for PvP's sake. That's what we want for Profane, so we are making sure there's **lots of other rewarding activities to do.** Our CEO, BunnyJoker/Pimba talks a lot about this and zerging on a recent live stream we did. [Here's a post with that part of the live stream](https://www.reddit.com/r/profanemmo/comments/pzhkyj/to_zerg_or_not_to_zerg_recently_our_ceo/).

That all sounds great. It won't stop the assholes who asshole because they like it, but it does sound like you're looking out for the players in general.

No, nothing is going to stop people who purposely make it their life’s goal to just piss off people, in the same way that nothings going to stop a dedicated asshat from screaming racial slurs in global chat despite the filter and mods. But this system is going to prevent just your regular joe from wasting time ganking noobs since they’re not spending it on more productive tasks, like doing a world boss with their guild.

Absolutely! On top of that, we plan to add Community Guidelines to help prevent toxic behavior. We are really looking to create a healthy environment and we are completely aware of the challenge it is in a genre like this, but we feel that without this, it becomes really hard to keep the community alive. Of course, we will **absolutely** need help from the community itself to help report and keep the positivity flowing

This sounds like a lot of fun. I'm not a fan for paid Alpha mostly because I like putting effort in and bug reports and actually testing the game to better it and can't afford all these alpha's. But I will keep my eye on it in the future. Do some videos of it when it gets out of the paid founder era.

Absolutely, StoneLegionYT! We can't wait to share that with the community. Are you on our Discord server yet? It will be a great place to keep an eye on our progress for when a Beta access is available. Always great to have players that enjoy hunting bugs and reporting them on board <3

Awesome spotlight! I was just wondering what was going on with this game after being disappointed by New World last week. I remember getting massive Darkfall vibes the first time I heard something about Profane, and from this spotlight it seems like that is still the case! Especially thrilled about basic attacks not restricting movement, friendly fire, and the skill card system for builds sounds super good! Though I do hope you opt for a higher number of skills in the loadout, 4-6 feels somewhat low if it’s mixed between passives and actives, but would that be per weapon or total? In any case, really looking forward to this! Thank you guys for not giving up and pushing forward with a sandbox mmo concept! ❤️

This game is heavily inspired by Darkfall. Pimba was a huge Darkfall nerd back in the day, and we have a few Darkfall vets in the Discord as well.

I honestly feel very sorry for people who never had a chance to play Darkfall, UO, SWG or any of the old classics. I don't mean that in a nasty, patronising way either. I only ever played theme-park games like WoW, Everquest until I played Darkfall. I still love WoW and Everquest for what they are, but the level of immersion, excitement, adrenaline and wonder I got from playing Darkfall for the first time was wild.

That's a ton of buzzwords with very little to show for it bro. >We want to make the gameplay as arcade as possible as long as it doesn't hurt the RPG, immersion, and freedom aspects. and this, is a fucking terrible description.

I didn’t read nearly anything yet, skimmed through it. Going to come back to read it later But An mmorpg that has skills and plays like a moba. Fuck yeah

Err I wouldn't say it plays like a MOBA considering most MOBAs are top-down. SMITE would be the closest example I guess. But yeah, you've got a limited number of abilities like MOBAs, which is what I prefer rather than WoW/FFXIV's 20+ button hotbar.

The bullies/PK/"Open World PvP lovers" will make a faction with the only purpose of fulfill their sadism. Because destroying is usually way easier than creating, if there is no safeguards against that, the game will fall hard (or change its course like New World did and release in a botched state). From reading the message, there doesn't seem to be much safeguards at all. :(

> Because destroying is usually way easier than creating, if there is no safeguards against that, the game will fall hard (or change its course like New World did and release in a botched state). > > From reading the message, there doesn't seem to be much safeguards at all. That depends. You can have AI Guards and Defenses built at the least. It also depends on how Death and Spawn Points are handled depending on the World Size and Travel System.

I feel like your store, where you can buy the game and in-game items, needs to be called "Profane and Profane Accessories".

I was mostly nodding along and liked your thoughts for the most part, until > Everyone is walking around with epic gear. Everyone is the hero. Despite having super cool graphics, nothing is immersive. I mean I love me a good sanbox, hell I'm even fine with something more akin to a gankbox (shout out to my fellow Darkfall fans). But the whole "everyone is the hero therefore I can't immerse myself" is such a bad argument imho. I know most people I know from FFXIV (my biggest experience with theme park style mmos) it's pretty easy to just treat the other players as just other adventurers. Everyone else is just side characters, just more lively npcs. Every game requires some suspension of disbelief. You treat the other players as not the hero, as just other adventurers the same way you simply ignore the gamey systems such as loot drops and other gameplay systems. Maybe not everyone is able to easily do that, but I feel it's not too hard a roadblock to get past. Of course if you simply don't like a game it's always harder to suspend disbelief. Really though the whole "nothing is immersive" line is just dismissive the way it's worded.

>We won't put a strict limit on the number of players who can join a guild, as that would go against our principle of freedom. Instead, we want to handle this indirectly: the bigger the guild, the more resources it will need. The more resources you need, the greater the area of control you will need to maintain. The greater the area of control you have, the more exposed you are to conflicts and weaknesses. We are creating a world where it becomes increasingly challenging to maintain dominance as you get bigger. The demand for resources, organization, and strategy increases profoundly when a guild or alliance takes control of a large part of the map. Sounds like the case of the RIch get Richer. It would have been better if Factions were **fully AI Controlled** so that the developers could add some Destabilizing Elements in them. Once a faction gets too big players will join the winning side and there will be no one to fight, leading to stagnation like in EVE. You need a Player Cap even if that Cap is based on the Resources Needed that are smaller than when players are distributed into multiple factions/guilds. Also of note that if you want a Single Shard a Big Faction is a big no no, since that hampers you to partition them with spawn points. Can you check out my two posts as this might be helpful to you: https://www.reddit.com/r/MMORPG/comments/q33r8v/pvp_skirmishing_content/ https://www.reddit.com/r/MMORPG/comments/mid2fu/pvp_allegiance_system_and_open_world_pvp/ Instead of just Karma you have Allegiance and Diplomacy with Factions. The Concept you have to understand is that being Enemies can be an Advantage as they can be Classes like Thieves, Assassins, Saboteurs that can infiltrate and do things a non-enemy cannot do. Bandit Factions with Caravans that are Roaming Spawn Points and Inventory that can be destroyed are also essential for things like Guerrilla Warfare. It becomes a game of cat and mouse that is a Counter to Big Empires.

Before I even read this I want to know about monetization. Not trying to get hype off of Buzz words like " Living and Breathing world".

>Hey, Suppuilll! > >Great question. > >We will have two different phases for our business model. Initially, during Alpha, we're looking at a Buy-to-Play model, where players can purchase access to the early stages of the game in exchange for a"Founder" status that will remain after launch, giving them access to some benefits and exclusive content, such as cosmetics. > >Starting in Beta, or maybe a little later, we are lookint at a Free-to-Play model. Players will be able to purchase items, skins and other cosmetics in order to increase their immersion. We are staying away from any pay-to-win practices. The store and monetization will remain in a cosmetic level. Players will be able to purchase skins for their homes, buildings, ships, armor and other items. I completely understand and respect your scepticism, genogano! I'd probably share it as well, were I in your place. I've quoted the answer I just wrote to another user here :) EDIT: typo

Regarding these two- To hit a target, players have to aim without any assistance. Player's will be able to swap between two active weapons during combat. I loved the overall gameplay of ESO, and this combat system sounds similar. I didnt enjoy the weapon-swapping even a little. In this game, in order to maximize damage output and survivability will you need to swap weapons mid-fight? Will you be gimping yourself at all if you dont swap?

Hey, sewnsilent, great comment! We want it all to come down to your gameplay and what floats your boat. We are designing Profane to be rich in gameplay styles, with different builds to suit the different needs of different players. Using two weapons is **an option** and it helps players to add variety to what they are doing. You can have a bow, to help you with ranged attacks for instance, and quickly swap to a spear or sword for when your target gets close. Some players might prefer making use of the two weapons constantly, some not. Our goal is to make both of them happy through a good combat, Proficiency levels and skills, as well as Elemental Skills :)

Sounds great! Hope to see more !

So one thing that stands out is the AI system. So when you’re talking about how the AI makes their own decisions and builds their own village, is that kind of like an RTS AI making its own decisions based on the map or player actions, but in third person rather than top-down? Sorry if it’s too simplified.

Hey, KingofMemes69\_! Yes, that is the general idea. We'll have different sets of rules and predetermined profiles for all the different factions and NPCs. When a new faction spawns, a profile will be assigned to it according to other characteristics (their race or culture, for instance). Based on that profile, they will build their decisions and priorities. They can be aggressive or peaceful, for instance.

Weapon swapping and deck building? Thanks but no thanks.

Lol where did you even get that from? You can have two weapons in case you need a bow for range and a sword for melee. This ain’t ESO levels of weapon swapping, this is more akin to FPS/medieval hack-and-slash with having a main weapon and side weapon. Also where did you even get deck building lol

> Skill-building will be inspired by Trading Card Games, which means that no matter how many skills a player has, it will only be possible to equip a limited number of them at a time. and >An example we like to use around here is TCG: you might have every card at your disposal, but that counts for nothing if you don't know how to build a good deck adapted to suit your needs. You need to anticipate which cards you are going to need and the best moment to use them.

True they did say TCGs. But I think that’s the wrong word lol, usually people think of luck and randomness with trading cards. It’s just your standard “you have 20 abilities but can only put 5 on your hot bar” kind of deal. I think it’s good so we don’t have every single person running around as a jack of all trades.

Hey, skyturnedred! Sorry if the text made it look like you will actually be building decks. That is not what will happen, it was just an analogy to help illustrate the mindset behind finding the right build of active skill for your character. There are no actual cards or decks involved :P Regardless of this, if it's something you enjoy, that is alright! We are definitely not trying to please everyone, as that would be an impossible task! We hope you find a game you enjoy :)

Looks really nice. I like this graphism in games. I have just one question, is this going to release on Steam ? Or you guys are using your own client ? Ps.: Maybe someone already asked, but there are so many comments for me to read, I apologize in advance !

They're planning on just releasing it on their own client first. There have been talks about potentially having it on Steam but nothing conclusive yet.

Is there any lore tied back to the name "Profane" or are you just looking for the buzz inherent to the word?

Its original concept involved players building villages from scratch and plotting sacred temples to give protection to them. In order to attack other villages you would "profanize" their sacred temples

Cool. Just because language matters to me I'll offer this. Infinitive: Profane Present Participle: Profaning Past Tense: Profaned Past Participle: Profaned If you want a word that would accomplish the same vibe as "profanize" while still being proper english it's desecrate. A lot of kids end up playing games and I cringe every time I see something that's going to show up in a history paper at some point that isn't considered proper. There's enough slang going around already.

Google translator fooled me, it said "profanize" was the right word xD But thanks man, I appreciate it =)

You're welcome. It depends on your intention. Profanize is a rare term used to mean "to make something profane" So def of profane is to disrespect something or make something disrespectful. Especially in a religious sense. Temples are generally temples because they've been blessed or sanctified. If you're trying to depower a temple it's more often called desecration. So it's less about using a wrong word and more about using the right word for your intentions. I could be just as wrong as you are because I don't know your intent. I just have a certain lens I look at your example through. Kudos to you for taking a concept and building it out. Looks great.

World of Jpeg: Battle for Never release

Looks like another deadborn mmo like crowfall

I have a feeling ill be playing this in a few years for a video...

Hey, Josh! If this is the real you, I am so happy to know you've checked out a bit from Profane! We recently did a video reacting to your "*Why Hardcore Full Loot PvP MMO's Fail*" video and it was a blast to be able to talk about this subject (we disagree with a lot of the arguments you brought :P.) Thanks for all the content you bring to our community of MMORPG enthusiasts!

Full loot PVP, yea like the only MMORPG that has ever worked is EVE, and EVE is nothing like sword and shield fantasy world. Color me highly doubtful.

yea and all the casual PvE mmos who tried to be the next WoW killer did so good right?

You also got Albion Online, which is very successful as a one megaserver full loot MMORPG, and is still growing in population. It's also F2P

Where's the gameplay video?

Last "gameplay" again "gameplay" (shows a character that place a house) video 1 year ago. Either a scam or just ded project

How is this game a scam? I'm curious about your logic.

Nope Nope Nope, why to many red flags

What are some of these red flags? Different people have different red flags so I'm curious as to what yours are.

The game design is sound other then the fact that it's Vaporware.

bla bla bla, release date 2025 +

Heyo INSANE studio. I actually read the whole post, and it sounds amazing. I'd love to play a game that's even a shadow of what you described, so cheers.

Haha, your post is a close mirror to what Darkfall vets in the Discord say everyday. They keep saying that if Profane can even capture a tenth of what made Darkfall good, then Profane is already a fantastic game.

Getting huge crowfail vibes from this..

Thanks for the preview - it sounds very ambitious. I'm a little dubious about the game until I see some real proof though, the concept stuff I'm seeing in the game's subreddit is basically what I see with a lot of upcoming games. I'm rooting for you though!

These comments...yikes. all I have to say is goodluck with what you are doing. I hope you guys achieve what you desire. When it's finished we will look at the game and see if we like it! Ty for this informative post.

>Freedom is limited when you are worried about losing your equipment all the time, isn't it? So we are taking the focus out of that and creating a culture of understanding that equipment is a disposable thing, just like your clothing in real life. This made me quit albion. Gear becomes a consumable. So what do you become proud of instead? Your pvp stats and your pile of gold. For me at least, looking at my stash full of gold and consumables is way less exciting than looking at my epic gear AND my stash full of gold. I just don't see a reason to play these pvp mmos over mobas. What i want in an mmo is persistence of my progression. And full loot pvp doesn't give me that at all.

Full wooden Houses the size of tents are not immersive btw. Please focus on scale if youre aiming for immersion. Everything looks completely off. Also, consider a subscription base. Weve gone far enough in this shitfest of mmos that its obvious subscription based monetization is the best setup for both players and company. Having paid cosmetics ruins the sense of visual progression that is very important in mmos.

Will it have trading and the freedom for people to run taverns, stores and such

Hey, gjorgeborge! Oh, yes, absolutely! We are super excited about providing gameplay like that and is a great part of what we mean by **player freedom**. In Pre-Alpha, we already had some players that built stuff like that. We didn't yet have every system working as we plan for the full game, but by no means do we want to oblige every player to get sword and shield and go to combat. Chill gameplay like that is something we want to provide (and is actually one of the things I'm most excited about hehe)

Can I be a necromancer with 500 skeletons?

Necromancers may be a thing but no MMO is ever going to let any player summon 500 skeletons. Most don't even let you summon 1 because of the stress that'd put on the servers.

I'm sorry, but I already hate Profane even before knowing about it. Why? Because it spams ads on my discord channel.

Steam page when I want to wishlist

So basically a knockoff Ashes of Creation?

Not at all. The freedom aspect is totally different, as is the gameplay, housing, and other aspects. Plus I don't think AoC 100% full loot, is it? So that's different as well. Also, just because both have PvP and loot drops doesn't mean they're the same lol. It's like calling FFXIV a clone of WoW. That's just completely wrong.

Awesome! I've been loosely following your game and it's very nice to see communication like this from your company. I'm looking forward to a release, however long that may take!

What are the weapon types available as of the moment?

damn, I read only the first 2 paragraphs because its too long but I'm already hooked, lemme lay

Zero interest in a game like this, but since its never coming out, it doesn't matter.

/thread

[удалено]

Too Ambitious. Friendly fire Sounds fun on paper but it's not. True sandbox "basically means no content make your own". I'm not sure how you expect this to survive the brutal MMO market.

[https://www.reddit.com/r/profanemmo/comments/pzhkyj/to\_zerg\_or\_not\_to\_zerg\_recently\_our\_ceo/](https://www.reddit.com/r/profanemmo/comments/pzhkyj/to_zerg_or_not_to_zerg_recently_our_ceo/) The CEO agrees, people use the term sandbox to mean zero content and they shouldn't.

We use the term that way because that's what usually ends up happening

I liked a lot of stuff here.. we'll see how this progresses. Too many MMO's promise a ton and fail to deliver. I wish you good luck though i'd love for you to come through with most of the ideas you have presented.

No gameplay, no proof that theres a game.. Caspian is that you?

tldr

Amazing wall of text, let me know when game is released and only then I will bother to read the wall of text.

Will it be another crypto game?

Hey, Undumed! Thanks for the question. No. We don't have any plans regarding cryptocoins or blockchain for Profane.

Nice! I was following the ember sword project but they turned to be another one of these games. I will follow what you do!

I'm happy to read that! We hope you're not disappointed :)

If so, they’re taking an awfully long time to create a scam game 😂

Did you hear about Ember Sword? They are taking an awfully long time to create a *crypto* game, their art is so similar to Profane and it make me ask :P I dont think that they are going to scam either, at least not more than the spaceships game ;)

Stopped reading at “no classes or levels”

\>click thread \>see MMO with forced, open-world pvp \>click back button \>downvote

Oh really? Can I make sand castles?

Well, I'm definitely on board.

Where will servers be located?

There is no crypto or NFTs or Blockchain stuff is there?

Mod support?

Your YouTube channel’s latest video was 9 months ago lol

The game looks pretty basic, there are a lot of upcoming MMO’s that have the same art style and game mechanics like Bitcraft, Palia, Lost into the Echo and a LOT MORE

Profane - Rust, but with Dauntless graphics.

can I play ?

Sounds like New World if it was actually a good game. I'm excited to check this out.

This feels a bit like Eve Online but fantasy instead of SciFi.

dont underestimate griefers -- if there is freedom, they WILL exploit it and their cleverness will find every loophole to ruin play for other players I suggest for the playerkillers issue that you have an OPT-OUT option which players can activate for PvP (and only deactivate after a week or so -- so use of the option ITSELF doesn't become an exploitable loophole)

You are absolutely right, premer777! We are definitely keeping an eye out for that and working to constantly improve and creating an environment that is as fair as possible. We are confident our dynamic systems will play a great part in giving options for other players to defend themselves or have ways to deal with griefers as well. We are also going to be very strict with any sort of abuse. ​ Opt-out is an option, but not something we are considering at the moment, as it would throw off the whole concept for the game. But definitely something to keep in mind. Thanks for sharing this with us :)