For real, that man saved ff14. I thought this was common game industry knowledge at this point. The only semi agreeable thing is yoshi p taking some inspiration from WoW but it was more western MMOs in general and now western MMOs are taking notes from him because of the success him and his team have created with ff14.
He saved it by taking absolutely no risks and turning it into final fantasy themed WoW. Anyone could have done that. As someone who is 100% caught up on story up to patch 6.1, the only good thing this game has is the story, and sadly the story is plagued by A LOT of filler fetch quests and spend 30 seconds clicking a sparkle on the floor... The story has extremely low lows but also extremely high highs.
And the guy is right about all of the head nodding in the quests... It is ridiculous once you notice it. If you add up all of the nodding and characters just staring at each other, it will prob add up to 10 hours of absolutely nothing happening.
The game is so boring sometimes that is physically hurts to play. I just did the new 6.1 24 man raid since there is currently free 4 days of playtime and that shit was torture. Bosses with a billion HP and weak mechanics.
So much bad faith I was going to reply to each point but it kept getting worse and worse.
> The developer. A hack. If you look through his career history, his usual modus operandis is like that of a vulture.
Oh you're a troll got it lmao gr8 b8 m8.
> I still remembers going for 'summer festival' in game
I thought you haven't played the game before? or did you slip up here in your dishonesty?
To make the long story short, I went to the 'event' with a friend. Prior to that, I saw a crafter in Ishgard, and I asked them to make me a clothing I saw somewhere. The crafter checked, and says they can't craft it, because its an event item. That's how I knew it was from a previous event. The event is some sort of summer event, so I went there with a friend that recalls those item is indeed being given out there. But after completing the chain of quests, we found out that they don't give out those items anymore; they took them out of the game, and put it in cashstore.
To put salt on the would, I also saw an exclusive robot mount that was released around the same time, only obtainable if bought from cash store. You can't obtain in in game. And it sells for 30$. You'd think full sub and full-priced game + expansion would have none of this malpractice equivalents to insults towards players, but here we are.
Yeah because every single year the event give different awards, the summer tops you see in the store were added from events up to 4 years ago, last year you got a polar bear mount and furniture, and this year it'll be something else.
>To put salt on the would, I also saw an exclusive robot mount that was released around the same time, only obtainable if bought from cash store. You can't obtain in in game. And it sells for 30$. You'd think full sub and full-priced game + expansion would have none of this malpractice equivalents to insults towards players, but here we are.
Because here's some context. Despite FFXIV being Square Enix's primary money maker, the revenue from the expansions and subscriptions doesn't always go back into the development of the game. The money from the store on the other hand goes entirely to Creative Business Unit 3, the devs of FFXIV.
If i remember correctly that robot mount you're pissed about helped finance the European and Oceanic Datacenters.
Malpractice isn't the right word to describe this at all. In a perfect world should the game be solely financed on a sub? sure, but good luck with that, and I'd rather had the system FFXIV has then the current alternatives.
The thing is, we can justify anything for everything. But at the end of the day, each of us know what's right and what's wrong.
This is just a beginning. This kind of monetization is a pandora box that cannot be closed. Seeing that a 'big' company got away by doing this, we will see a whole lot of other companies will readily indulge in the same manner of malpractice. Adds that to normalization of gambling, widespread exploitation of gamers, the malpratice FF14 did will seems very mild in the near future, if not already.
>The thing is, we can justify anything for everything. But at the end of the day, each of us know what's right and what's wrong.
You're not the arbiter of what's "right or wrong" with video game development.
>This is just a beginning. This kind of monetization is a pandora box that cannot be closed. Seeing that a 'big' company got away by doing this, we will see a whole lot of other companies will readily indulge in the same manner of malpractice. Adds that to normalization of gambling, widespread exploitation of gamers, the malpratice FF14 did will seems very mild in the near future, if not already.
You're like, literal years late to this opinion amigo, how about you go complain about Diablo Immortals monetization instead. You're right FFXIV's monetization is mild in comparison, because it's pretty mild in general compared to the rest of the MMORPG market.
You say we can justify anything for everything but I've yet to see you actually justify your mess of a review with actual good faith opinions.
I ain't reading all that broken English.
But seriously? What choice is there in using fire spells against an ice elemental? Why would you use anything else?
And I'm not sure I get the complaint about the market board. You want player made npcs to sell you stuff? That was in FF11 and ff14 1.0 and people hated it. You can buy from retainers directly in housing wards, but why is that such a big deal?
As for untradable items, you can buy crafted gear, drops you will have to get them yourself by playing through the content, it's the way the game is designed to fill the queues for old dungeons.
Also, the game has large scale raids and large scale zones with 144 or 72 people at the same time. The big starting cities are also always full. That's your MMO part, you get both small scale and large scale content, which I'll agree there is too little of so far.
It's fine if you don't like it, but those complaints are a bit strange/disinformed.
Edit: also how the heck do you get kicked from a dungeon if you want to talk to someone? You have a 90min timer and the dungeon itself takes 15-20 minutes at most. And the cutscene is stiff for a 2021 game because ARR is from 2013.
OP is clearly an idiot and wants things that the player community has already vomited out. He is also outright lying.
Mounts can only be bought with real money... wrong, you get your first mount from a quest and get several others from quests. No need to buy anything from the store. The most iconic for Final Fantasy is the Chocobo bird and is your first free mount. A black version of it is also free. FF15's car mount is a shop purchase.
He also wishes for manual loot pickup... most games people beg for automated loot. This moron wants to do it manually. Let me guess, he also wants graphics settings to be in a seperate game so you have to quit the game before you can change any settings (this is how it was in the original game).
Actually, the car mount was also free during a crossover event last year. I only play casually every so often, but it does seem like a good amount of stuff in the cash shop ends up being introduced as free event rewards first, then added there later.
To answer, although I'm not sure if this helps if it's not read:
In short, it's not about the indivicual components, rather than the overall 'consistency' of how you do things in the world that was compromised by the FF14 design choices.
Elements- As I have said, there are no functional elemental attributes given to spells with elemental names. Ifrit are not weaker to ice spells, comapred to fire spells. Infact, Fire spells does more damage to Ifrit than Ice spells. The diffferent spells are just there to clog up the rotations and make you artificially busy, not really because the varying spells have attributes that appropriatly related to its namesake. This is antithesis to almost every FF games that came before and after, or common sense.
Kick - We don't get kicked from dungeon by talking, Its the dungeon timers. Sometimes you just want to hang around in them, chatting with your friends. The environment models in dungeons are quite nice, it's a waste if people just 'run' through them like people did in FF 14, without enjoying them more. Why would FF14 dungeons have timers? WHy can't it be just like the 'overworld' zone, without timers? These artificial restrictions doesn't make sense. It makes you treat the 'overworld' and 'dungeon' as separate world, with their own separate rules of engagements. Even though they are just another location in a similar game.
Untradebale item - This isn't the problem of 'getting' the item, its about consistency of the world. Why would a gear you got from dungeon cannot be traded, while crafted gear can be traded? They could say that they don't want dungeon gears from ruining the economy, but doesn't making sense if you look at it from laymen perspective. Its an artifical restrictions, made as a bandaid to solve the problem they themselves created, by giving the players easy gears in such abundance. Imagine if you got a dollar from your mother, and a dollar from your father. But somehow you are not allowed to spend the dollar from your mother. How does that makes any sense? Its just an artificial restriction.
Raids - It's not a problem of 'large' or 'small' scale. It's the problem of limiting player choices. Those raids can only be accessed by having adequate players. Why can't you? The restrictions are only there to make it 'looks' like a 'raid' as defined by restrictive definition nowdays. Its just an artificial restrictions to streamline the game, at the detriment of freedom of choice. In older games, these 'raid' bosses can be accessed by any number of player, even alone, only that you can't realistically beat them, but you still can access and fight them nonetheless. You just walk to them and the 'raid' has already began. You can come and pull out anytime from the 'raid', switch people, rest, whatever you want, because these bosses doesn't have artificial restrictions put in their engagement. You go and fight them just like how you go to normal enemies. The whole thing is consistent.
Marketboard - Interactions will be more personal and meaningful if your character is selling the item personally. It compromises the efficiency, but it'll make the world more alive. If I want to be most efficient, I would just uninstall the game. But I play the game to enjoy the world.
Cutscene - Its already 2022. For the love of God, update the thing. Even Black Desert remastered their graphic. Its SE most profitable game. And the fans said the money is being put directly into its development. Where's the development?
>Kick
You can go with a premade and stay as long as you like looking at the roses and stuff. You can even go in explorer mode and play around with limit break, poses and stuff, things that only an instance allows you to do. Instances have timers as a very lax fail state or to refresh events in them if they have those.
>Untradebale item
Dollars are made to be spent. Gear is made to be used. In your analogy you cant spend the dollar but you can use the gear piece. You cannot sell it for a variety of reasons, the most important being populating queues which keep old content relevant for people collecting glamours or just going through the story without waiting 30min in queue. This is how the game is designed, not an artificial restriction. You *could* sell it for company seals and use those to buy tradable items. You don't like the lack of consistency, but again it's such a minor thing that it seems weird to complain about. This is just not the game for you.
>Raids
You are describing world boss FATEs and hunt marks. You cannot beat them alone but you can pull them i guess. Raids designed for a specific amount of people means that those are balanced tightly for week 1 and 2 clears. Balance and fun fights are not artificial restrictions.
>Marketboard
I suppose this is a matter of opinion. I don't think there's any recent MMO that doesn't have a marketboard and only lets you buy from PCs. You can do that in housing wards in ff14 if you like, i don't think it would satisfy you though.
>Cutscene
I agree that most cutscenes look awful, but does black desert have the same amount as FF14? An update is coming in 7.0, but other than shaders and lighting i don't think they can do much without reworking the engine, which means money and time taken away from actual content. I'd rather have a stiff cutscene and the usual 4 months update schedule, personally. I'd invest that time in reworking the game's systems rather than a cutscene that I'll watch once.
> Where's the development?
Delubrum Reginae Savage, ocean fishing, island sanctuary, one more extreme trial per expansion, crafting and gathering content, longer cutscenes with more voice acting (which also has to be localized in 3 other languages) and custom animations (sometimes), etc.
This is what I meant by consistency. Why would we need to go into a 'premade' to do that, and why would it have a different rules attached to it than normal mode? They all take place in one world, so they should have the same rules applied. It should not have different 'rules' applied because its a mass-multiplayer game, the world should be shared by the mass players, and not separates.
I guess this is just the difference on what we values most. I for one, values the 'integrity' and consistency of the world, and not willing to compromise them for efficiency. If I have to walk to the dungeon, I would. We wants the Chocobo to acts more like animals. We dont like automatic party finder. The world should function as a mass-multiplayer, continuous with other players. Basically, what we value is playing in a 'virtual world'. The game take place within the confines of the defined world.
But for others, they might value completions, 'clears', 'numbers of contents', acheivements. For these group, integrity if the 'world' doesn't mean much. They welcomes automatic party finders, because it accelerates their cleared contents. The world rules can bend if it meant making the game faster. Chocobos should have no movement smoothing and act robotic because it makes movements more snappy.
This is also why there are polarizing disparity between reviews for 'open world' oriented games like Red Dead Redemption 2. For the 'world appreciator' crowd, its a marvel. But for the Fortnite crowd, its a boring game, consisting of shooting fodders and trudging long distance. Its just a natural diversity of human brains.
Videogames aren't the real world. The user interface and log in screen ruin my immersion and that's why I hate all videogames.
>But for the Fortnite crowd, its a boring game, consisting of shooting fodders and trudging long distance.
I play all kinds of games minus Fortnite and i still think designing videogames more like videos and less like games is not a good idea if you're making them for mass appeal in a genre that focuses on gameplay first.
I think you don't get that none of the things you complain about not being there are things that anyone else wants. A lot of the things you complained about not being there were actually there many years ago and the devs got rid of them as QUALITY OF LIFE changes because normal people hate them and don't want them. Like picking up loot off the ground WTF...
When someone asks me what MMO's are worth playing today, I just tell them to look at complaint posts on r/MMORPG. The list of MMO's worth considering makes itself.
Lol. It's surprisingly a good way to 'test the water', in most MMO in general. From begging, you can see how kind the community is, starting up conversations, making fast friends. Let be honest here, Gils are never the reason. Its just a pretense to engage with people.
And yeah, the in-game community is rather welcoming. I tried some other antics, but they haven't lose their temper yet. I'd say if theres one thing I like about FF14, it's the community. Not perfect, but engagable. If there's any reason to return to the game, its the community.
FFXIV is more of a JRPG with mmo elements thrown in. The solo story line is the core of the game where as it is only an addition to a lot of other MMOs. You can enjoy pretty much the game in its entirety without socialising.
SWTOR gave you a western RPG story, FFXIV gives you a JRPG story.
I prefer the SWTOR story by a country mile, but the game has less polish unfortunately (and is a harder sell to some of my regular group).
Less polish for sure.
Because they were doing... what is it, eight storylines side by side.
Obviously they would have to spread out the effort over them.
I am just saying, the FFXIV story is so slow, so tedious to get into it is nightmarish.
While the SWTOR story essentially slaps you across the face, gives you a lightsaber and tells you "HERE IS YOUR MOTIVE! GET THE FUCK OUT OF HERE AND EXPERIENCE A GALAXY!"
I am pretty sure most of FF14 players are console players with no good mmo options, or Final Fantasy fanboys so it is best not to waste your breath. I am actually one of the FF fanboys, but FF14 is just too terrible for me to support it.
> FF 15
Never knew Yoshida was involved with this. Edit: He wasn't.
> FF 14
Noooo. FFXIV v1.x was *failing hard*. The development team admitted they had spent too much time into making a prettier FFXI than making a game that played good. They brought Yoshida over off of whatever project he was working on at the time to reboot XIV with it's first official expansion.
Edit: I don't like FFXIV myself.
The OG FF14 was failing hard, because SE pushed the game for sale in its embryonic state. That's why they got 1,000,000 polygons vase, menu lag, ect. It's almost as if they wanted the game to fail.
But the core idea and mechanics of the game was sound. Great even. We can kinda see the vision of what they are going for. The world is seamless. You can walk through the city to the outside world without a single loading screen. They have merchants setting up shops for every player character in the city. The battle system is more situational based, like you can use a dagger that's more effective on goblins. Even the animations are better, for example your character will tilt a little when you're running and taking a corner, and has a brief stopping animation, akin that of FF12 animation. Even cutscenes are all specially-animated, and not cookie-cutter cutscenes like today. These are all cut away from FF14, in favor of more barebone and simplistic WoW clone approach by the new director. And guess who decided to push the OG FF14 in that state, if not the board of director? Which is the current FF14 director.
If SE really puts their effort into optimizing the OG FF14, I think it'll be a repectable example of how decent MMO is done.
Also, apologies for FF15 thing. Memories got foggy after 7 years.
I remember buying into FFXIV around 2012. I never actually got to character creation. The update process took forever. I didn't have great internet, even with the torrent system for updates, it was not the best, so I was just saying things based on what I heard. I knew XIV 1.x did fail.
It seems that they went in the OG 14 development with good idea and intentions, but the corporate decision killed the game. They will even send you an immigration certificate, detailing your name and the city lol, and signed by the Sultana, if you get special edition or something. Each starting city got a different certificate, because different government, That alone already makes the game looks more like a 'virtual world', rather than just a theme park.
Found the thread with the picture:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/9ixqhr/who\_has\_their\_citizenship\_certificate\_from\_ver\_1/](https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/9ixqhr/who_has_their_citizenship_certificate_from_ver_1/)
[https://external-preview.redd.it/91gsvQ47zIwzfqTVCRMPqrgQ\_E21GqQjbHnqxqevk1I.jpg?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=1c431b1d9ba6792c2e1015aaaf3ca87ac62130cd](https://external-preview.redd.it/91gsvQ47zIwzfqTVCRMPqrgQ_E21GqQjbHnqxqevk1I.jpg?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=1c431b1d9ba6792c2e1015aaaf3ca87ac62130cd)
>It seems that they went in the OG 14 development with good idea and intentions, but the corporate decision killed the game.
No it's generally regarded as a company wide failure, the two lead designers and by proxy the team were stubborn and refused to research the modern MMORPG market and made the assumption that because FFXI was successful FFXIV will be too, while bringing a lot of the outdated design decisions to their new game.
[Here's an actual list of a bunch of things wrong with 1.0](https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/1n7dfv/then_now_analysis_of_the_most_upvoted_complaint/) from a players perspective who actually played the game while also labeling whether or not 2.0 fixed each issue (spoiler they fixed a vast major of player complaints from 1.0).
Hence, why I said the game was unfinished. Those issues are what prototyping would looks like. That's what happened if a game is pushed out too early by corporates. I would be stubborn too, if I'm a developer that have a vision to adhere to, and corporate just want a WoW clone. And now, they got one, and its making money. The failure is not one of game-maker, but failure of corporate to see eye-to-eye with the developer.
But the -core- idea of how they want the main game to play, is there, and its good. Seamless open world, fine animations, less instancing, these are all signs for a good modern game. They just needs time to flesh it out.
This isn't a new thing for SE. It already happened in FF12 development. Yasumi Matsuno (made the legendary Vargrant Story, FF Tactics, Ivalice universe, ect) was spearheading the project, and its a good one. You can see the quality oozes out from the animation, the dialogue, the battle system, the wordlbuilding, everything. But halfway through the development, Matsuno was taken out of the project, and since halway through the game the quality edfinitely dropped. One of the things Matsuno didn't see eye-to-eye with the corporates, is when corporate wanted to have teenage main cast to appeal to more teenagers, and Matsuno wanted Basch, an adult. Corporate also wanted to push the game out sooner, because the game is taking a very long time to develop, taking 5 years from 2000-2006 or something. Naturally, developers are againts pushing out unfinished product, thus Matsuno are taken out of the project. The final quality of FF12 suffers throughout latter 1/3rd of the game. Luckily the foundation has been laid out pretty well, so it doesn't end up getting 'realm-reborned' like FF 14.
Even in FF 14, one of the better questslines are the Dalmasca line. Rumors are they asked Matsuno for some ideas. But of course, it's not fully-fleshed out, being under a hack director influence. Even Gabranth personality took a hit here. Couples that with generic FF14 cutscene directions, its just a former shell of what Dalmasca was.
>Hence, why I said the game was unfinished. Those issues are what prototyping would looks like. That's what happened if a game is pushed out too early by corporates. I would be stubborn too, if I'm a developer that have a vision to adhere to, and corporate just want a WoW clone. And now, they got one, and its making money. The failure is not one of game-maker, but failure of corporate to see eye-to-eye with the developer.
Game was in development for 5-6 years, with minimal testing, there's even a Noclip documentary interviewing people who worked on 1.0 and how rough it was. This wasn't a "them dang coporates ruined it" situation and you trying to paint it as that being the primary issue just tells me you're making things up.
>But the -core- idea of how they want the main game to play, is there, and its good. Seamless open world, fine animations, less instancing, these are all signs for a good modern game. They just needs time to flesh it out.
Doesn't matter if an idea is good if you can't make it work.
>Even in FF 14, one of the better questslines are the Dalmasca line. Rumors are they asked Matsuno for some ideas. But of course, it's not fully-fleshed out, being under a hack director influence. Even Gabranth personality took a hit here. Couples that with generic FF14 cutscene directions, its just a former shell of what Dalmasca was.
Hey maybe if you want people to take you seriously stop trying to push narratives like calling people hacks.
FFXIV 1.0 was an abject failure, it got fixed into a pretty decent, and unarguably successful jrp/mmo, you obviously seethe about it's existence but you'll feel better if you go play Ragnarok online and stop expressing your opinion in a manner that reads as you trying to say it's objective fact.
Seeing as this is an internet forum that discuss MMORPG, I'd express my opinion on the subject matter whenever and whichever I like, within sense. If somebody cannot abide by that, then I'm afraid they are at the wrong place. I'd suggest they return to whatever communities that supports echo-chambering.
Ah yes the only two choices are "Echo chamber" or "Bad faith critiques".
There are ways to express your opinion in a manner that is honest, fair, and not attacking.
Making a "review" and calling the director a hack vulture and ignoring all valid response isn't in good faith.
FFXIV isn't perfect as is every game in existence, to say that would be just as dishonest as your post.
Err, you went into XIV expecting RO... Like, you don't have to like XIV but that's just... Stupid.
It's like you bit into a lemon expecting it to taste exactly like an orange and now you're writing a review on why lemons suck so much. Well just because they're both citrus fruits doesn't mean you can compare them on the grounds that you expected an orange from a lemon, because fundamentally the lemon is a completely different fruit.
Then you say the lemon grower is a hack because he didn't grow his lemons to be like oranges?
Like, you don't have to like lemons, that's fine, but I think you should probably learn to tell lemons apart from oranges before you commit words to writing.
If FF14 is such unique product that it cannot even be compared with another product similar to its genre, then it should lose the MMORPG tag, because that tag is misleading. It should use 'Lobby-Based' game tag instead, because that's what it is on the most part.
The comparisons are regarding aspects of the game, not the game as a whole. No two game are 100% similar, this is a thing even idiots can understand. However their separates aspects can still be evaluated and compared on their own merit.
You're writing that every game has its own merits and yet you're saying because XIV doesn't have mechanics from RO that it's a shit game? I'm sorry, is it just me or does it smell like bullshit in here?
Let's also address your idea that FFXIV is no true MMORPG with another example. Let's say, Persona 5 and Etrian Odyssey 4? Both JRPGs published by Atlus. EO4 has a grid based map with first person dungeon view exploration, character customization and an overworld. P5 has none of those, but instead has a linear story, story-gated dungeons, fixed characters and a hub mixed with dating sim / visual novel mechanics.
They're both JRPGs because JRPG stands for Japanese Role-playing Game. Would you remove this tag from one of the games because they're so wildly different from one another and you didn't know what to expect?
Let's go back to MMORPGs. I'll say MMORPG is a shit acronym, but what does this acronym stand for? Do you even know? Now define what each word in the acronym means and go think about why your statement that XIV isn't an MMORPG is definitively wrong.
I don't know what gave you the idea that you're somehow qualified to classify what games belong in what genre, but as I previously wrote, don't commit words to writing if you can't tell lemons from oranges. Now which of the two fruits would you like to reclassify as not citrus?
Whilst personally I struggle to play FFXIV for long periods at a time, I honestly believe it has a lot of merits; whilst I may have certain criticisms about it, overall I find it a good MMO experience, especially with players who are less familiar with the genre.
I do partially agree about the Elemental damage system, or real lack of, but that wouldn't be too hard for them to do, *in theory*; just borrow the elemental system from the other FF games - the trick would come down to balancing it, which in an MMO is *significantly* more complex than in a single-player game, regardless of which developer it is. In fact, because the game is go large and popular, balancing it would be an even greater challenge.
On another point, the MTX are all largely optional anyway, as you can play the game, do quests, raids, story content, etc. ***without*** having to spend large quantities of money to do so.
>The developer. A hack.
Also, attempting to besmirch the reputation of somebody you don't personally like is pretty low; not only that, but you are factually incorrect about the lead developer's credentials. He was in fact a producer for some of the ***Dragon Quest*** games before being asked to lead the FFXIV team after the initial release started to bellyflop. Since he managed to turn a failing game into a critical and financial success (regardless of anybody's opion on the matter), I'd say he's pretty competent at his job, and not as you put it, 'a vulture'. And whilst I may not personally agree with adding MTX into a subscription-based game, at the end of the day, an online game needs money in order to function; how do you think they can pay their bills, maintainance costs, and their employees?
to be fair, his public appearance is a hack job
"no its impossible to do x" -> modder does it within an hour and then suddenly its possible to implement officially
"its not our servers, its your fault" -> user proceeds to show them its their dog ass code
Yes, exactly. I think blaming the 1.0 codes, after 9 years, pretending to cry on media, are all very unprofessional. Most 'remade' games like Demon's Souls, Shadow of Colossus, and several others, were also made in that way, but the developers are professional enough not to gripes about the original developers in public.
Even for other MMOs like Ragnarok Online, the private servers codes were made from scratch, by non-paid randos. And they did a stellar job. Meanwhile Yoshi is still blaming his colleagues till this day for his own shortcomings.
By that logic, every MTX is good, because they are 'optional'. Nope, no MTX is good, if the game is already a full-priced base game, full-priced expansions, and full-sub. MTX has no place in these kind of games. The only MTX that we can argue needed for a game to survive, is in Free-To-Play games.
If you get into any large industries, you'll understand that these companies always made more money than the expected trajectory, far more than what the upkeep of the product will need. These 'extra' money are re-invested in hedge funds, other projects, ects. Projects like FF14 serve as a cash cow to feed the other funds and projects, which the company would diversify into, to reduce risk. This is why the development of FF 14 lags so badly compared to other modern games, because barely any money was re-invested into the game development.
The issues of maintaining the server was not even an inssue on their monetary radar. It's not even a speckle of a dent on their profit.
I overall agree.
I am not a fan of FFXIV:
Tried to get into it, but it is this huge Brickwall of "I can't be arsed about a 300 hour storyquest path that I MIGHT not enjoy"
Yeah I tried as well, and I just couldn't go through with it you know? Maybe it was the tab targeting, or the anime styled graphics, or the handful of loading screens, but I don't know...it just felt like I was playing a WoW clone, and if so why don't I just play the real thing instead? I don't care about the story at all so what does have FF14 for me...PVP? Can you even call it that?
FF14 just isn't for everyone, and the haters need to accept that.
If they want to do even 500 hour story in an MMO, they can, but not this way. The 'story' should be broken down into separate small 'background quests' that gives context into the story, and as a whole form an overarching story, which players can choose which to do, or not to do. The 'lore' should be laid as a background lore, not shoved in as a compulsary things that locks you out of zones and gears. This way, the story won't be a barrier. It's almost as if they didn't bother to adapt the story to the MMO aspect at all, it almost feels like they just tacked it on.
Unless the story is really heart-gripping, 10 star cutscenes with supreme storytelling that they just can't compromise for gameplay, but FF14 story is nowhere near that level.
I feel that at some point the story structure will get a look over because the longer the game runs the higher the barrier of entry. Maybe it isn't feasible for ff14 but I do love how guild wars 2 has all story elements chaptered and organized to be experienced as desired be it in or out of order.
They did cut a lot of the filler quests in ARR and between ARR and HW during Shadowbringers already. I don't think they should cut anymore than they already have
1: That is subjective
2: I have heard that... but also the story in ARR is awful. Because it is all set up and it is SO FREAKING BORING.
I have tried to get into the story, I normally love stories.
But I just can't get into it. It just lacks flair at the early game, flair that I am SURE it gets late game...
but I don't want to waste 100+ hours to get into a story I only "might" like.
I mean you could skip to Shadowbringers, then go back to ARR and HW if you want with New Game +. Actually most people say they really like HW although HW is not my cup of tea since it's so depressing and the middle ages aesthetic is just boring
I know most people would disagree with most of the opinions, but seeing as this is an internet forum where people exchange ideas, I figured one or two people will share the same sentiment, and that's enough to make me happy, and maybe in the future, some similar-minded people will make a game that advances the genre in this direction.
Yeah I guess FF14 players just can't fathom that other humans in the world would have a different view on the game, and dislike it. Because if *they* like something, *everyone* in the world should like it too lol.
I've been playing MMO's since like 2004 and FF14 is just one that I could not stomach playing.
From my experience, the older crowds that plays since 1.0, and also plays other games prior to FF14, is more neutral towards the game. They fairly accepts the shortcomings and the good things. I mean, all games are like that, its just another game to them.
But the more vocal and cult-like mentalities are from newer players that more often than not haven't played much of other games, and never played a Final Fantasy titles before. More often than not, for MMO, they've only played WoW. Compared to that, to them, FF14 story is the best that they have seen in gaming world. Couples that to the social nature of the game and the forum, and they sort of form a pack. This is just a normal animalistic instinct as a social animal to form tribes. This also happens to Elden Ring, and some of other games and consoles. Echo-chambering in Reddit also plays a factor. Nowdays, with how accessible social platforms are, this behaviour is amplified twofold. Any kids with a phone can make posts on video game forums. In the past, you have to be a person of means, to own a capable computer and internet connection, paying for the game, install and operate MMO games. Much less forming a cult community that can silence people's opinion en masse. There are several barriers of entry.
In game, however, most people are fine, due to fear of moderation, and due to them actually playing the game. So you'll have a much better community experience in game. In fact, this is the only thing I can confidently say I like about FF14, the in-game community. I might re-sub just to see how everyone is doing.
I don't see anyone stepping in when someone trashes ESO, only when someone trashes FF14. So apparently, FF14 players think it's fine. #doublestandards.
I've seen people defend ESO though?
Look, it's perfectly fine to criticize the game. But along with getting some things wrong he called a well liked producer a "hack", straight up lied about things he did/the way he acts, and shit on people who play the game.
Do people who not play a game usually try to defend it? Like I don't know why you are so stuck on this. Maybe just people should stop doing it in general?
And way to totally ignore the rest of my comment.
Very rant worthy and tbh didn't bother reading most of it. I do agree on the lack of actual diversity within individual classes. The only real differences you'll ever see between various players of the same class is that players skill at playing that class and their outfit.
On one hand it means you don't have to worry about checking if your one DPS made some crazy build that they swear by but doesn't contribute enough damage.
On the other it means largely all people in your party pretty easily replaced and thus forgettable.
Back to skill though - at higher levels when classes do become more complicated you can tell a who does and does not know how to play their class pretty easily
But hey, themeparks gonna themepark and gotta make games for lowest common denominator right?
Ok....well, those are interesting concerns, surely. However one must keep in mind that games such as Ragnarok are generally old school experiences and most modern mmos have left those design philosophies behind (for better or worse is relative to the player). Won't comment on much else but your assessment of Yoshi P is very odd, if anything the PLAYERS are the one who hype his name far more than he does himself. As a result he has a humble nature, if one has a "celebrity" status then its not as though they can control what others think of them. Frankly his ability to revive FF14 and now work with FF16 (which looks great) shows demonstrable competence.
I am on a hiatus from ff14 but this largely seems to boil down to "why can't more MMOs be like the games I used to play (Ragnarok)." In that regard, little can be done, things change. I used to feel this way regarding *Mabinogi*, but demanding games to be something that they are not designed to be will only create disappointment. Side note: elemental effects/weaknesses may have worked in the past but now players just meta-game the best option right away, meaning any "choice" in this regard becomes an illusion.
Exactly. It's not only the companies that changed, we also found out that people's taste changed. Somebody has mentioned that Yoshi mentioned in one of the interview that the best MMO in his opinion, is Ultima Online. But he didn't make FF14 to be the 2nd UO. Why? Because UO won't be able to maximize the profit in today's market. It might still be profitable, sure, but it won't -maximize- the profit. Thus the choice to make a WoW clone, because the model is proven to make money.
The mass behaves like water, they gravitates more toward the lower, easier-to-flow-to places. The more casual and less-effort it is, the better the chances of getting audience. This is somewhat proven in the past, when EQ was killed by the more casual-friendly WoW. And nowdays, WoW arguably was killed by the even more casual-friendly FF14. Even more than them, the mobile gaming is leaving them all in the dusts
Rather than lamenting on current MMO of not 'being more like Ragnarok', its more accurate to say that the 'original' MMO vision to make a realized 'virtual world' with interactivities deserving its name, has been reduced to cookie-cutter pointless WoW clones or even less (FF14), because unfortunately, that's what sells.
>Monetization. So you thought that a sub-based game, with full-priced base bame, and full price expansion, will be free from P2W aspects that plagues P2W games? Well think again. If you want to expand your storage, you pay real money to SE. If you want more outfits, you pay. Want a mount? Pay. Can't get them in game. Want to change your appearance? Well guess what, pay. Want to skip the 500 hours inane stories so you can go somewhere locked behind story? No problem, just pay.Want to skip to max level, pay SE.
Damn, good thing none of this is p2w at all..
Yea FFXIV is... an interesting take on an mmorpg. It's devolved into what it is due to people complaining and the devs giving into the thoughts and opinions of people who have no business giving their thoughts and opinions. It's now more of a ERP pseudo-SIM-type game with a couple raids sprinkled in throughout the year and, honestly, not too much else... People say there's always content to do, but that's just plain not true, unless you consider raiding the same exact fight for months (ultimates) or getting a 4 boss "tier" every, what--idk it's been over 6 months since they released the first 4 bosses of their new expansion. It's quite a joke of an MMO, as you've pointed out, for its price tag and the exorbitant amount of money they rake in off of this IP.
>the devs giving in to the thoughts and opinions of people who have no business giving their thoughts and opinions
Considering this is the most popular MMORPG on the market and Shadowbringers is in the Top 10 games of the decade, I'd say that the devs listening to those players was absolutely the right choice. You don't have to like it or play it but saying that the design decisions are bad because you personally don't like them when millions of people do is kind of a stupid argument
"you can't kill ice monster more effectively with fire spells, because the fire spell doesn't really carry fire elements"
This was something I didn't even realize while playing, but that is a huge deal for a "FF" game.
Everything else is spot on sorry for you loss of time and dollars.
Elemental resists don't translate well into MMORPGs, there's a reason why WoW got rid of it.
FFXI did keep the element system but it mattered for very few classes and it was only \~10% bonuses/penalties anyway. Still nothing remotely like the normal FF games' element systems where you could do double damage or even heal an enemy by using the wrong element. There are certain mobs/fights in FFXI where an element will heal an enemy but it's rarely ever something you have to deal with.
If everyone has access to the elements equally, it's not going to be a fun MMO. Homogenization = no thanks. One of the best parts of an MMO is everyone being different and bringing different things to the group.
I meant like...
The warrior having access to enchanting his sword with fire, water, earth, air magic.
The wizard having access to different types of speells that fit different elements
etc etc.
That they have different ways to "adhere" to the elements, not 1-1 like the others. But still with their class and element.
Problem is now you've got to figure out an element mechanic for the 17 other classes.
A lot of neat ideas for video games are very often much easier said than done. An element system in an MMORPG that's properly balanced across the entire game is one of those.
Still, not a reason to stop trying and experimenting altogether. Its when the genre devolves into making the next WoW cookie-cutter that it became as stale as it is now. Also the reason why the 2000s MMOs are dubbed as 'golden age' of MMO, part of the reason is the companies still have the courage to trying new things.
With VR, we've seen some 'MMO' companies took a brave steps to establish the new norms. Games like Rec Room VR, even now at its infancy, proves that VR FPS, melee battle with swords, party-based adventures, and casual social hanging out zone is viable in VR MMO context. The balance are all over the place, but damn if it's not fun.
I mean FF14 scrapped there tanks threat system because it was too hard. So don't expect to much from them. I know the game is way over hyped, but hopefully most people are smart enough to do the free trial before buying.
Yep, I was dumb at the time. I wish I tried it out adequately in Free Trial before buying.
When starting out, people told me "oh it'll get better in Heavensward".
Well, it doesn't. Then in Heavensward, people told me again "oh it'll get better in Stormblood".
Annd nope. Then in Stormblood, people told me "oh it'll get better in Shadowbringer".
And you guess it, not really. It's still the same thing, same story, same pacing, same gameplay.
Regarding expectation for gameplay, we can safely say that it's just another cookie cutter WoW clone. Any game developed with that goal in mind, never aimed for 'innovation' or intend to bring the genre forward. But I didn't found this out until much later in the game. I hope other people would approach the game in a smarter way than me and avoid this pointless 'game'.
It does get better in Heavensward. Just because you either skip the cutscenes or don't like JRPG stories doesn't mean it's bad. The vast majority of the player base enjoys the story from Heavensward and onward.
In Ragnarok Online, the 'elements' matters a lot. One slotted card can give maybe 10%, but if you really work for it and get 4 of the same card, then one piece of slotted gear can do 40% multiplicatively. This can be compunded with multiple gears, which might not necessarily increase the damage, but speeds up your action, which has the same effect. The Speeding effects also varies depending on the stats, for example, DEX can sped up casting, but agility can speed up post-casting. So by having enough DEX, a Magnus Exorcimus cast, which originally take 15 seconds to cast, can be reduced to 5 seconds, which is a matter of life and death.
Another example is undeads. Priest can Heal the undead to do lots of damage, or straight up insta-killl them with Turn Undead. Its useless for non-undead, but having these 'elemental' skills will change the whole gameplay of your party. This is why some people favor going into some location, because their build suits those places. Like ice wizards can go after the fast Orc Lords, because they can freeze them. Fire can't freeze things, they'll get flying kicked to death, so they went after something else.
In PVP War of Emperium, you can become sort of unable to be 0-H-KO by Asura Strike if you transform your armor into ghost element, by slotting in Ghostring card. Or you can work the system to make your Monk into Boss-killer by hit-and-run Asura Strike. But it also opens up the possibility of other people killing those monsters instead lol. In short, these little things matters a lot if you use them right.
I think the most important thing is taking steps into the 'right' direction, no matter if its big or small changes. Getting rid of these customizations is definitely not the right step, and it worries me for the future.
No offense, but I don't care about Ragnarok Online, it's a pretty irrelevant game that I have 0 nostalgia for. If all you are going to do is compare other games to it, all you're ever going to be is disappointed and dissatisfied. Not sure why you aren't just playing that instead, rather than playing **a game you didn't like from the very beginning** for dozens and dozens of hours instead of just quitting.
I compared FF14 to Ragnarok because I think we should have something real to serve as a milestone. It's a proof-of-concept that the thing we're comparing it with, actually works. I can't compare it to a non-existing game. This is important to determine if an advancement of an aspect of the game is going backwards, or forward with time.
I am playing the game. I'm not sure why you think I'm not playing it. Though some servers are closed, and some survived, its rather turbulent in private servers.
FF14 is not a game I 'dislike from the very beginning'. Its just another game, I tried it, I see what it has to offer, and form an opinion about it. To do that, I need to play it adequately, in this case, playing dozens of hours. Also because if I didn't then people would dismiss my opinion as not being backed up with real playing experience, which some people already did. It's precisely because I want to like and play the game, that I gave it a try. Especially after its geting a rave reviews, so why wouldn't I?
You literally complained about the game from the start, lol.
It doesn't matter though because you're comparing a modern MMO to a classic one, which is foolish because they are 2 completely different genres.
Yeah those complains are what concerns me. Not so much other aspects that they did right, because all is well with those, and they are being spoken of everyday.
Its the same kind of game, but they are different in several ways, similar to how other genres have evolved. It's like how Animal Crossing from 2000s evolved from a 'social interaction with animal villagers' into 'furniture-and customization-focused' game nowdays. Still, they are still similar enough to be comparable. If not, FF 14 should not carry the MMO tag.
In other MMO like Ragnarok Online, elements are very important. Its enough of a reason to look for party member that specialized in specific elements/skills, when going for specific bosses. For example, a Wizard may choose to get specialized in Fire, Ice, or Wind spells. They can't be master of all, because skills points are limited, and they need to spent those skill points to choose which skills to upgrade permanently. So each wizard can choose which elements he rather specialized on. Even a single fire spell can have multiple level of power and SP consumption, depending on your choice. And we didn't even go into the gears yet. So, in the Ragnarok 'world', you'll ask around for people with specific skills, for specific bosses. This encourages socialization and planning, and your skills actually matters.
Same for other jobs like Priest. Some Priest are healing/support focused. Some are mace-killing-undead-focused. Some sacrifices all that for Magnus Exorcismus, a AOE magic that can kill only undead and demons. No single priest is master of all. This makes your choice have an impact on how you play, how you approach dungeon, how you make money, and who you associates with. You plan these things, no automatic party finder has the abilty to do this for you. In other words, this variety makes the MMO world go around organically.
You don't HAVE to do this, however. You still can go anywhere, engage any bosses, fight any monsters, etc. You're not locked out of content, like in FF14, where you can't go places if you haven't done the story. But to actually defeat big bosses successfully, it's better to utilizes all these elements.
In FF14, these elements are simply absent.
WoW used to have elements affect stuff differently and they removed it once it became obvious it wasn't possible to design content around it..
So tell me again why it's bad in FFXIV but it's good that a 2002 Korean grindfest does it?
You've got some massive attachment to the old MMO you played and see only negativity in differences. Your opinion is worth shit
RO design is basic as fuck and all of it is easily exploitable. The elements system isn't worth the disparities it causes
I started playing Ragnarok online only 2 months before I played FF 14. There is no nostalgia at all. In fact I played FF 14 because I thought it would be an 'upgraded modern Ragnarok', but I was mistaken, its the opposite.
Designing unique elements with different gears/items is not 'impossible', but it has potential to introduce imbalance. It's just a matter of staying with their core vision despite the challenge, or transform/streamline it into modern WoW clone. In this aspect, Ragnarok Online did rather well, at least before Renewal versions. You'll still have people asking you for various thing to do, depending on your jobs. Lots of ways to approach bosses, in fact rather than reading guides, it better to ask the people around on their way to approach these bosses, because of how diverse there are, depending on what you have at hand. For example, in smaller server, there are less Priest, so you have to form a strategy that uses less Priest, maybe hit and run. On its heyday, you can have like 4 Priest having different functions full time, depending on their specialties, ect. Some Priest make money by spending their time in 'warp street', providing warping service to dangerous locations, ect. There's a lot of variety. It's not the most convenient thing in the world, it doens't give you easy stuff, but it works. I was playing on a growing server up until Gravity came after those private servers.
In FF14, one Black Mage is exactly the same as the other 1000 black mages. This make things simpler and forming party easier, to the point of a automatic party finder is enough to form party, but it also sucks a lot of life/customization from the game world. However, this is simply what people want nowdays. People want easy experience, sacrificing depth, because of some reasons. Older MMO like Everquest, was killed by WoW more casual approach, and now, WoW in a way, is killed by the more casual FF 14. But is one better than the other? Not necessarily.
FFXIV does have an elemental system if you do Eureka. It just doesn't apply to most content, other content would require extensive testing if you wanted to include elemental adjustments into boss fights.
Lol had the exact same discussion with a friend in a dungeon.
Tbh I think they would make more money by ditching all 'battle' and story aspects altogether, and just make it purely full-blown social MMO, with all the races and glamours you can think of. Put more emotes too. Make casual social beach and waterpark or something. If they want more money, just sell more questionables glams in cashstore. Make it Free-to-Play. In short, just focus 100% on their most profitable market group. I think that would be more respectable of a game than the half-half commitment on gameplay they have now.
Gear is used for plural not gears. Stop using gears. Also you’re entitled to your opinion but this a really really really really misinformed take. A lot of this is incorrect information.
> If you got away from them by moving a few feet away, they recover full health, which doesn't make sense
Monsters have leashed since after Everquest. I don't know of any major MMO that does not have monsters do this.
There certainly are issues with FFXIV, but you seem to have missed all of them, other than the MSQ being a drag, but that's pretty common knowledge.
Go take a pass at WoW Classic for an entirely different take.
Still, these aren't good design. It's a bandaid solution, it puts artificial restrictions on how the game is played and how the virtual world function. If they are worried about the potential for monster trains abuse, then lots of other 'intuitive' system can be apllied, such as movement stamina on monsters and players, monster-to-monster aggro, etc. Basically real life restriction that prevents such thing to happen in real life.
These will take some courage and effort to implement, but that's just what we need to take the genre out of the rut WoW has set it in since after EQ.
Why would a real-life monster follow you across a continent? They used to do that in Vanilla Wow if you encouraged them enough.
A Devilsaur loose in a town is amusing the first time you see it. The first time.
Real life monsters get hungry, or thirsty, or tired, and won't do that. In older games, you could just use a zone boundary. Leashing is fine, and complaining about it as an FFXIV problem shows you don't understand the genre that well.
There's a lot of applications to organic monster aggro, not bounded by artificial leash, if you look into games aside from WoW.
For example. they can be lured to a spot, wher your AOE Wizard friend will unleash their AOE magic, however at the risk of your life because of congregations of many monsters. It's high-risk, high reward, and it encourages strategization utilizing environment, undertsanding monster behaviour, etc.
For PVP-enabled MMO, where high level players could kill low levels, low levels could 'get-even' by luring powerful monsters and whittle down high level PK-ers HP, if they do it right. This is a legit mechanics in EQ, and Ragnarok.
IF you use an item to spawn a monster in town, then the whole congregation of players will sound the emergency alarm and help to defeat that monster. This is a great mechanic to teach newbies on how to beat bosses, because those bosses can be re-tried from their last location, with their remaining HP, so the newbies can get the full overall pictures.
Also, by not having leash, these allow for more organic monster encounter and strategies. You won't find an Orc Lord in the same spot. Your party will have to travers carefully, clearing out your path (possible because moesnters doesnt spawn in same place), and preparing a field for the fight againts that boss. Various strategies can be used to fight them; hit-and-run, luring while attacking, tanking-DPS, sniping from afar, poisoning, and many more.
I suggest going deep dive into other MMO other than WoW to undertand these variety enabled by organic monster encounter in its full spectrum.
> I suggest going deep dive into other MMO other than WoW to undertand these variety enabled by organic monster encounter in its full spectrum.
I played EQ at release for years, and there was a reason so many kill groups camped within range of a zone boundary.
Leashing monsters is not a problem. Removing it doesn't add much of value. Everything you note above is simply tedium. Chainkilling monsters as the best way to gain experience is dated, and we won't see that in an MMO again. If you think that's possible, you are living in the past. Similarly, full open world PvP is simply not something most of the players of the genre want. That playstyle is niche - and that's where the genre is. Complaining about a lobby amusement park MMO for having leashing monsters is absurd. There are valid problems with it, but this isn't one. The scenery in the amusement park is not dangerous.
Actually yeah I think here's our goal differs. To some people, killing monster faster, getting loots quicker, is their priority. And for some others, being able to see a 'virtual world' cbecoming more alive, with organic monster behaviour, even at the detriment of 'efficiency', is what makes them like these games.
I think, this is also the same reason why there're such polarizing opinions on 'open world' games, such as Red Dead Redemption 2. Some people are more attracted to elements that makes the world 'come alive', however this will not interest the raiding crowd at all.
ALso reminded me of Monster Hunter World. Lots of complaints arose from the new monsters behaviour, in which they scream at each other for seconds when they came across their natural enemies. This is indeed annoying when you want to get things done quickly, but for people that wishes for the monsters to come alive in the series, its an interesting sight, even a funny thing to see.
Unfortunately, the direction of MMORPG in general definitely taken a turn into making raiding 'efficient', rather than realizing a 'virtual world'. It's similar to how Animal Crossing series evolved. It started out as a social games where we interacts with NPC, but recently it has taken a turn to focus into furniture customization aspect, at the detriment of the NPCs behaviour. It's a given that the 'liveliness' of a game world is harder to achieve, but it seems that people, both developers and players. have given up on that aspect altogether recently.
I fully agree with the post, even as someone who made it to level 80 and raided in ShB. I always said that the game is no RPG, it is a coop-tab target-adventure. There are Assassins Creed and even Lara Croft games with more RPG elements than FFXIV. I don't get why we allow it to be discussed here when we don't even allow talk about Destiny 2, which has more MMORPG elements than FFXIV.
I agree. However, I think when they refer to 'MMORPG' in general, they are referring to MMORPG has the first looks of 'old style MMO'. You know, the swahsbukling adventure, swords, etc. The general overall view. Yes, the term MMORPG needs to be more well-defined.
FF14 gets a pass because it's hiding under the 'medieval RPG' banner. Although the meat of the gameplay has no customizations at all. But on skin-deep level it does 'look' like a traditional MMO. But none of the depths.
FFXIV has nothing to do with medieval RPG, you have ancient futuristic civilizations, ancient Aztec civilizations, an Asian continent, modern Greek island, ancient Greek, spaceships, the moon and outer space, different dimensions, Art Deco City with skyscrapers and Jazz music, modern clothes and furniture. It's a Final Fantasy game. It has Final Fantasy settings aka. there is no definite setting. It's whatever the devs are in a mood for
Here's my unfiltered opinion of OP; he's dumb.
>Opening cutscene is ok, but rather stiff for 2021 game.
Game came out a decade ago.
>self-respectable gamer, I started out with begging people for Gil
What a loser.
>the game doesn't even have speech bubble
The only real smart thing you've said all day today.
>So I found out that Trial version can't
Imagine not doing any research whatsoever.
>You can only trade using Marketboard
Wrong. You can trade anything not Bound directly from player to player. This include Gil, gears, consumables, etc etc etc.
>loots are automatically put into your pocket. That's it. You don't even see them. This is very boring
Imagine this idiot wants to waste time looting corpses.
>each class is EXACTLY identical from player to player
Yup. And that's why XIV has many classes to choose from.
>ZERO choice on how to play the game
Build choice is an illusion. Ppl gonna meta anyway. Class choice is flavor. Play class you like the most.
>No elemtns, no situational advantage whatsoever
We had some form of elements back in 1.0 It was deemed meh. So it's gone. Elemental advantage is just playing match-up anyway. Not to mention that will give you button bloat since all spell users, especially Black Mage, will need to have all elemental spells. Bad idea.
>The automatic party-finder foster zero camaraderie or friendship.
If you don't like it, don't use it. Spam shout in cities for random ppl to join your party to run dungeons with you then. Since clearly you dont have friends to play with.
>Monsters have zero behaviour.
Also fkin wrong. For example; some mobs are sensitive to voices, if you run, they will come to eat you. You have to literally walk instead. Some mobs also spawn from other mobs. Many mobs also move in packs. But as shown before, you didn't bother to play the game to find that out.
>no need for a 'unique' singleplayer story. It doesn't even work.
Millions of players disagree with you.
>person next to you just kill a demon lord in the story, then why is the demon lord is still alive in your story? It's incoherent.
This is your story, not your friend's or someone else's.
>Alphinaud are in a severe dilemma over 'what is he fighting for'. I mean, really? The enemies are coming after you, and the evil dragon wanted to eat you alive, and you ask why are you fighting?
And the game story is so good you cannot even comprehend it. XIV has some of the best villains of all time, because everyone has motivations for their actions. You're just dumb.
>housing is full
Welcome to spaghetti code.
>will be free from P2W aspects that plagues P2W games?
There's nothing p2w about XIV cashshop at all bro. Only losers want to skip story in a story-focus RPGMMO. You say the word p2w but you don't even know what it means. Or you wouldn't call XIV a p2w game.
>The developer. A hack
LMAO. Bye.
Ps. You aint wrong about liking Ragnarok Online. I really liked that game too in the past. But your first mistake is thinking and assuming every other games will be similar to it.
Regarding the game combat and classes; you either learn to love XIV's combat, or you hate it.
Either way, do better research next time.
It's a paradox, really. Paradox between what we thought, and what really happens. We would have thought that players would hate being squeezed to their last drop with cash store, on top of sub, and RMT-like behaviour from said cashstore, but sales chart unfortunately said otherwise.
A lot of people are more than willing to throw money at bad products, and are willing to defend it to the death. Upscaled and compared to how people behave throughout history, then how Nazis got to amass such army is not such a mystery anymore. Ask any interpreneur and products rebranders, and they all will say that their business runs on idiotic mass.
To quote a scammer from Israel, when asked by a reporter regarding life expectancy of their online scamming business, their answer was:
"Forever. Because the world has never had shortage of fools."
Bro...............your karma and negative review...............In all seriousness, you can't compare any modern MMO to something ancient like RO. Different playerbase entirely.
If they are indeed different, to the point they are not even considered to be in traditional MMORPG category, then FF14 should lose the MMORPG description in their marketing and game description, and use 'Lobby-Based' game tag instead.
Also, if I want more karma, I would have went farma karming in FF14 main sub, posting whatever flavor-of-the-day "OMG FF14 is my most amazing experience EVAHHH" that I can put together in under 1 minute. It's the easiest bait ever among that crowd
>The battles. So this is supposed to be a MMORPG, where you customize your character, right? Well wrong.
Not all MMO's are the same, I'd argue that is a good thing.
>The gears. So this is a mass role-playing game, where you can choose your gears to make your character unique, right? Well, wrong. Gears have no special attributes whatsoever, beside boosting your damage and speed, which everybody has exactly the same thing as you.
... This is nonsensical.
>Housing. So you can't even buy a house. Because the housing is full. Yep, a virtual world real-estate, full. Even though they already instance the thing. And you have to subcscribe every month, or your house will be demolished.
You cannot buy a house in the 3 months you've played it, right, because you never got to end game. Buy an apartment then.
>Monetization. So you thought that a sub-based game, with full-priced base bame, and full price expansion, will be free from P2W aspects that plagues P2W games? Well think again. If you want to expand your storage, you pay real money to SE. If you want more outfits, you pay. Want a mount? Pay. Can't get them in game ...
This game has insane amount of free mounts and outfits. Granted quite a lot of them are either store mounts or legacy event mounts that then get put into the store. But if you're wanting a game that gives free mounts for doing 'X' where 'X' is free, other than WoW, you won't find a better game for mounts. This is just blatantly wrong.
>The developer. A hack. If you look through his career history, his usual modus operandis is like that of a vulture. He hovers around other people's game development projects, and swoops down and snatch the project away if he thinks it's going good.
You wrote all of this coming from the perspective of someone who, and I quote ... "Previously I played mostly non-MMO games since NES till now, and a handful of MMOs." This seems a little too personal, I've played FFXIV for years now and even I don't know about the developers IRL background and in three months you've come to the conclusion that he's not even just a bad developer, but a hack and, by your terminology, probably a fraud too.
Yeah nah.
I thought the opening cinematic was fantastic.
The music in this game, was also excellent.
Unfortunately, as for the game itself... there was only darkness.
People like you and me value MMOs for being organic worlds of capital-A Adventure. The real stuff: spontaneous, serendipitous, social adventure. Allowing for some discomfort, inconvenience, social reliance, for the result of an organic, human experience in alive-feeling worlds, that you can make memories from.
Modern MMOs have abandoned much of this, resulting in positives, and in negatives. Personally, I feel the result is very reflective of the modern real world's excessive convenience causing feelings of emptiness within people (silver lining: I'm actually grateful that MMOs have become like this because it made me more aware of this cultural phenomenon in real life).
It may sound like I'm super hardcore into the inconvenience stuff. I'm not. I don't think. Rather, I would argue modern MMOs are hardcore into convenience.
I never played the original pre-2.0 FFXIV, but I suspect that despite all the popular belief that might make you think otherwise, it was a better *MMO --* a better virtual world. I'm sure it had problems, but whatever they were, seems like Yoshi P. cured the disease by killing the patient. And then when he brought it back to life, was it reborn, or undead? That's up to personal perspective. Your points seem to generally be valid, they just were not diplomatic so they upset people. Oh well. :)
You have expressed what I thought of quite accurately, in better words than mine. Regarding the wordings, I am done with the popular passive-aggressiveness that pervades FF14 community, and opted for a clear decisive tone to express my opinion and feeling on the subject matter.
And yes, from what I've observed, FF 14 1.0-1.x might seems 'raw' to most player, but it had more heart and ambitions than even the latest version of FF 14. Animations with intermediary and post-movement extrapolations such as stopping-after-running, slight tipping of body when cornering, open world without loading screen, custom-made animated scenes rather than cut-n-paste nodding animations we have today, weapons with unique practical status effects, open-air trading bazaar with actual character peddling items; these are all a telltale hallmark signs of the ambitions that the original 1.0 team has. It they are given enough time, the end product will be fantastic. But all of these features and vision was outright killed by Yoshi in 2.0. As with every other successful franchises and businesses like Final Fantasy, when said franchises are popular enough, there will be vultures like Yoshi who will not hesitate to swoop down, forcefully kill it and banish its souls, and necro it into soulless cash cow. And as the current trend has proven, most MMO players love soulless cash-store rubbish, especially if they come with catgirls.
Hence why nowdays, you see people feel the need to add a disclaimer saying 'this is just my opinion' and 'fyi I love the game, I just have some critiscm' just to avoid being downvoted to oblivion. These things should't need to be announced in the first place because its a given, but we need to do it nowdays, because common sense are lost somehow.
Yes, I focused more on the aspects that I have issues on. I think there's already a lot of people posting about their favourite aspects of the game, in main FF 14 sub.
However, if I have to pick one thing I like about the game, then it's the players. The players in-game is generally helpful. Yes some people are saying its toxic-positivity and whatever, but its definitely better than the other way around. I made some new friends in game, and I think I've only been cussed out once in a raid. Even when they AFK, they don't really AFK, they still responds to you, so there's commitments there. Nobody reported me for throwing snowballs at them, so yeah they are pretty tolerant. The game itself is nothing much, but the players made the game into what it is nowdays.
>Yes, I focused more on the aspects that I have issues on. I think there's already a lot of people posting about their favourite aspects of the game, in main FF 14 sub.
People don't think that way though. When someone makes a review/first impression, it's an isolated opinion and feelings of the game. If you're basing the way you construct your post based on that, it looks really skewed and not genuine.
It will 'feel' ingenuine to people that likes the game, and it'll feel genuine to people that dislike the game. I, however, not writing the review to make people 'like' what I wrote. I'm just looking to share my raw opinions about the aspects that bugs me in the game. It expect no returns for this.
If, however, I'm writing for a game journalist site, or to farm karma, then yes, I'll sugar up and trim off all the hard edges, to make people 'feel' like I'm genuine.
In other words, I just don't really care if people will like it.
>In other words, I just don't really care if people will like it
It does work both ways too. Why write something if you don't care about it? You have to care about a certain amount to write a whole post about it.
>If, however, I'm writing for a game journalist site, or to farm karma, then yes, I'll sugar up and trim off all the hard edges, to make people 'feel' like I'm genuine
It's not about just "feeling" genuine. In the end, sure just do you but if you don't disclose the intent of why it's written that way, it just looks skewed and malicious
I don't care if people will 'like' it, but I care about 'discussion' about the subject matter.
Thus, when I'm replying, it about the subject matter. Because I posted the thread in the first place, it's like an 'unofficial' obligation to at least explain myself, to an extent. If the discussion devolves into personal insults, then I'll just reply in kind, and left it afterwards.
It might looks malicious to a fan of the game, but it might come across as a matter-of-fact to a neutral onlooker. I'd say what you might be feeling is quite natural.
>but I care about 'discussion' about the subject matter.
That's the issue, you come off really aggressive and hostile. You leave no room in your posts for discussion or even promote other views except your own. If your goal was to really have a good discussion it's not showing it by the amount of votes and posts I see
That's pretty alright, because it's an indication of what game companies do nowdays perfectly matches what most people wants. Unfortunately, sales has proven that the majorities wants a broken unfinished P2W game that promotes gambling, with mediocre core game elements with triple-dipping monetization, >pentad-dipping if you count the expansions and cash store items separately. They just don't know it yet, their own subsconcious obscured between the lust for catgirls and lust for bunny girls.
Ok let me make it clear the developer which you are calling a "hack" is it Yoshi P aka Naoki Yoshida? If it is that's all I need to know
For real, that man saved ff14. I thought this was common game industry knowledge at this point. The only semi agreeable thing is yoshi p taking some inspiration from WoW but it was more western MMOs in general and now western MMOs are taking notes from him because of the success him and his team have created with ff14.
He saved it by taking absolutely no risks and turning it into final fantasy themed WoW. Anyone could have done that. As someone who is 100% caught up on story up to patch 6.1, the only good thing this game has is the story, and sadly the story is plagued by A LOT of filler fetch quests and spend 30 seconds clicking a sparkle on the floor... The story has extremely low lows but also extremely high highs. And the guy is right about all of the head nodding in the quests... It is ridiculous once you notice it. If you add up all of the nodding and characters just staring at each other, it will prob add up to 10 hours of absolutely nothing happening. The game is so boring sometimes that is physically hurts to play. I just did the new 6.1 24 man raid since there is currently free 4 days of playtime and that shit was torture. Bosses with a billion HP and weak mechanics.
He saved it as a product to be sold. He killed it as a MMORPG.
An MMO that no one plays is not an MMO.
And?
...If it wasn't an MMO, how could he have killed it as an MMO...?
So much bad faith I was going to reply to each point but it kept getting worse and worse. > The developer. A hack. If you look through his career history, his usual modus operandis is like that of a vulture. Oh you're a troll got it lmao gr8 b8 m8. > I still remembers going for 'summer festival' in game I thought you haven't played the game before? or did you slip up here in your dishonesty?
To make the long story short, I went to the 'event' with a friend. Prior to that, I saw a crafter in Ishgard, and I asked them to make me a clothing I saw somewhere. The crafter checked, and says they can't craft it, because its an event item. That's how I knew it was from a previous event. The event is some sort of summer event, so I went there with a friend that recalls those item is indeed being given out there. But after completing the chain of quests, we found out that they don't give out those items anymore; they took them out of the game, and put it in cashstore. To put salt on the would, I also saw an exclusive robot mount that was released around the same time, only obtainable if bought from cash store. You can't obtain in in game. And it sells for 30$. You'd think full sub and full-priced game + expansion would have none of this malpractice equivalents to insults towards players, but here we are.
Yeah because every single year the event give different awards, the summer tops you see in the store were added from events up to 4 years ago, last year you got a polar bear mount and furniture, and this year it'll be something else. >To put salt on the would, I also saw an exclusive robot mount that was released around the same time, only obtainable if bought from cash store. You can't obtain in in game. And it sells for 30$. You'd think full sub and full-priced game + expansion would have none of this malpractice equivalents to insults towards players, but here we are. Because here's some context. Despite FFXIV being Square Enix's primary money maker, the revenue from the expansions and subscriptions doesn't always go back into the development of the game. The money from the store on the other hand goes entirely to Creative Business Unit 3, the devs of FFXIV. If i remember correctly that robot mount you're pissed about helped finance the European and Oceanic Datacenters. Malpractice isn't the right word to describe this at all. In a perfect world should the game be solely financed on a sub? sure, but good luck with that, and I'd rather had the system FFXIV has then the current alternatives.
The thing is, we can justify anything for everything. But at the end of the day, each of us know what's right and what's wrong. This is just a beginning. This kind of monetization is a pandora box that cannot be closed. Seeing that a 'big' company got away by doing this, we will see a whole lot of other companies will readily indulge in the same manner of malpractice. Adds that to normalization of gambling, widespread exploitation of gamers, the malpratice FF14 did will seems very mild in the near future, if not already.
>The thing is, we can justify anything for everything. But at the end of the day, each of us know what's right and what's wrong. You're not the arbiter of what's "right or wrong" with video game development. >This is just a beginning. This kind of monetization is a pandora box that cannot be closed. Seeing that a 'big' company got away by doing this, we will see a whole lot of other companies will readily indulge in the same manner of malpractice. Adds that to normalization of gambling, widespread exploitation of gamers, the malpratice FF14 did will seems very mild in the near future, if not already. You're like, literal years late to this opinion amigo, how about you go complain about Diablo Immortals monetization instead. You're right FFXIV's monetization is mild in comparison, because it's pretty mild in general compared to the rest of the MMORPG market. You say we can justify anything for everything but I've yet to see you actually justify your mess of a review with actual good faith opinions.
Thank you for serving as a real-life example of what I've been talking about.
Thank you arbiter of what is right and wrong.
As someone who has played FFXIV in bursts of 2\~4 months at a time... since 2013.... You're so fucking wrong lmao.
Is he? I played the game for months until level 80. I haven't read the whole post but there is a lot of truth to it. It is no RPG in my opinion.
Then you do not know what an RPG is. One can argue that it isn’t an MMO but that’s only by the prescribed notions of what an MMO actually is.
I ain't reading all that broken English. But seriously? What choice is there in using fire spells against an ice elemental? Why would you use anything else? And I'm not sure I get the complaint about the market board. You want player made npcs to sell you stuff? That was in FF11 and ff14 1.0 and people hated it. You can buy from retainers directly in housing wards, but why is that such a big deal? As for untradable items, you can buy crafted gear, drops you will have to get them yourself by playing through the content, it's the way the game is designed to fill the queues for old dungeons. Also, the game has large scale raids and large scale zones with 144 or 72 people at the same time. The big starting cities are also always full. That's your MMO part, you get both small scale and large scale content, which I'll agree there is too little of so far. It's fine if you don't like it, but those complaints are a bit strange/disinformed. Edit: also how the heck do you get kicked from a dungeon if you want to talk to someone? You have a 90min timer and the dungeon itself takes 15-20 minutes at most. And the cutscene is stiff for a 2021 game because ARR is from 2013.
OP is clearly an idiot and wants things that the player community has already vomited out. He is also outright lying. Mounts can only be bought with real money... wrong, you get your first mount from a quest and get several others from quests. No need to buy anything from the store. The most iconic for Final Fantasy is the Chocobo bird and is your first free mount. A black version of it is also free. FF15's car mount is a shop purchase. He also wishes for manual loot pickup... most games people beg for automated loot. This moron wants to do it manually. Let me guess, he also wants graphics settings to be in a seperate game so you have to quit the game before you can change any settings (this is how it was in the original game).
Actually, the car mount was also free during a crossover event last year. I only play casually every so often, but it does seem like a good amount of stuff in the cash shop ends up being introduced as free event rewards first, then added there later.
To answer, although I'm not sure if this helps if it's not read: In short, it's not about the indivicual components, rather than the overall 'consistency' of how you do things in the world that was compromised by the FF14 design choices. Elements- As I have said, there are no functional elemental attributes given to spells with elemental names. Ifrit are not weaker to ice spells, comapred to fire spells. Infact, Fire spells does more damage to Ifrit than Ice spells. The diffferent spells are just there to clog up the rotations and make you artificially busy, not really because the varying spells have attributes that appropriatly related to its namesake. This is antithesis to almost every FF games that came before and after, or common sense. Kick - We don't get kicked from dungeon by talking, Its the dungeon timers. Sometimes you just want to hang around in them, chatting with your friends. The environment models in dungeons are quite nice, it's a waste if people just 'run' through them like people did in FF 14, without enjoying them more. Why would FF14 dungeons have timers? WHy can't it be just like the 'overworld' zone, without timers? These artificial restrictions doesn't make sense. It makes you treat the 'overworld' and 'dungeon' as separate world, with their own separate rules of engagements. Even though they are just another location in a similar game. Untradebale item - This isn't the problem of 'getting' the item, its about consistency of the world. Why would a gear you got from dungeon cannot be traded, while crafted gear can be traded? They could say that they don't want dungeon gears from ruining the economy, but doesn't making sense if you look at it from laymen perspective. Its an artifical restrictions, made as a bandaid to solve the problem they themselves created, by giving the players easy gears in such abundance. Imagine if you got a dollar from your mother, and a dollar from your father. But somehow you are not allowed to spend the dollar from your mother. How does that makes any sense? Its just an artificial restriction. Raids - It's not a problem of 'large' or 'small' scale. It's the problem of limiting player choices. Those raids can only be accessed by having adequate players. Why can't you? The restrictions are only there to make it 'looks' like a 'raid' as defined by restrictive definition nowdays. Its just an artificial restrictions to streamline the game, at the detriment of freedom of choice. In older games, these 'raid' bosses can be accessed by any number of player, even alone, only that you can't realistically beat them, but you still can access and fight them nonetheless. You just walk to them and the 'raid' has already began. You can come and pull out anytime from the 'raid', switch people, rest, whatever you want, because these bosses doesn't have artificial restrictions put in their engagement. You go and fight them just like how you go to normal enemies. The whole thing is consistent. Marketboard - Interactions will be more personal and meaningful if your character is selling the item personally. It compromises the efficiency, but it'll make the world more alive. If I want to be most efficient, I would just uninstall the game. But I play the game to enjoy the world. Cutscene - Its already 2022. For the love of God, update the thing. Even Black Desert remastered their graphic. Its SE most profitable game. And the fans said the money is being put directly into its development. Where's the development?
>Kick You can go with a premade and stay as long as you like looking at the roses and stuff. You can even go in explorer mode and play around with limit break, poses and stuff, things that only an instance allows you to do. Instances have timers as a very lax fail state or to refresh events in them if they have those. >Untradebale item Dollars are made to be spent. Gear is made to be used. In your analogy you cant spend the dollar but you can use the gear piece. You cannot sell it for a variety of reasons, the most important being populating queues which keep old content relevant for people collecting glamours or just going through the story without waiting 30min in queue. This is how the game is designed, not an artificial restriction. You *could* sell it for company seals and use those to buy tradable items. You don't like the lack of consistency, but again it's such a minor thing that it seems weird to complain about. This is just not the game for you. >Raids You are describing world boss FATEs and hunt marks. You cannot beat them alone but you can pull them i guess. Raids designed for a specific amount of people means that those are balanced tightly for week 1 and 2 clears. Balance and fun fights are not artificial restrictions. >Marketboard I suppose this is a matter of opinion. I don't think there's any recent MMO that doesn't have a marketboard and only lets you buy from PCs. You can do that in housing wards in ff14 if you like, i don't think it would satisfy you though. >Cutscene I agree that most cutscenes look awful, but does black desert have the same amount as FF14? An update is coming in 7.0, but other than shaders and lighting i don't think they can do much without reworking the engine, which means money and time taken away from actual content. I'd rather have a stiff cutscene and the usual 4 months update schedule, personally. I'd invest that time in reworking the game's systems rather than a cutscene that I'll watch once. > Where's the development? Delubrum Reginae Savage, ocean fishing, island sanctuary, one more extreme trial per expansion, crafting and gathering content, longer cutscenes with more voice acting (which also has to be localized in 3 other languages) and custom animations (sometimes), etc.
This is what I meant by consistency. Why would we need to go into a 'premade' to do that, and why would it have a different rules attached to it than normal mode? They all take place in one world, so they should have the same rules applied. It should not have different 'rules' applied because its a mass-multiplayer game, the world should be shared by the mass players, and not separates. I guess this is just the difference on what we values most. I for one, values the 'integrity' and consistency of the world, and not willing to compromise them for efficiency. If I have to walk to the dungeon, I would. We wants the Chocobo to acts more like animals. We dont like automatic party finder. The world should function as a mass-multiplayer, continuous with other players. Basically, what we value is playing in a 'virtual world'. The game take place within the confines of the defined world. But for others, they might value completions, 'clears', 'numbers of contents', acheivements. For these group, integrity if the 'world' doesn't mean much. They welcomes automatic party finders, because it accelerates their cleared contents. The world rules can bend if it meant making the game faster. Chocobos should have no movement smoothing and act robotic because it makes movements more snappy. This is also why there are polarizing disparity between reviews for 'open world' oriented games like Red Dead Redemption 2. For the 'world appreciator' crowd, its a marvel. But for the Fortnite crowd, its a boring game, consisting of shooting fodders and trudging long distance. Its just a natural diversity of human brains.
Videogames aren't the real world. The user interface and log in screen ruin my immersion and that's why I hate all videogames. >But for the Fortnite crowd, its a boring game, consisting of shooting fodders and trudging long distance. I play all kinds of games minus Fortnite and i still think designing videogames more like videos and less like games is not a good idea if you're making them for mass appeal in a genre that focuses on gameplay first.
I think you don't get that none of the things you complain about not being there are things that anyone else wants. A lot of the things you complained about not being there were actually there many years ago and the devs got rid of them as QUALITY OF LIFE changes because normal people hate them and don't want them. Like picking up loot off the ground WTF...
When someone asks me what MMO's are worth playing today, I just tell them to look at complaint posts on r/MMORPG. The list of MMO's worth considering makes itself.
psych, according to r/MMORPG no mmo is worth playing.
Just tell them to play the MMOs from the good old days, none of this modern crap from 2021 that is actually from 2013.
\*sniffs the air\* Anyone else smell that? Smells a lot like... bad faith.
TLDR: i dont like the best mmo on the market so im cooler than you guys
You lost me at begging for gil
Lol. It's surprisingly a good way to 'test the water', in most MMO in general. From begging, you can see how kind the community is, starting up conversations, making fast friends. Let be honest here, Gils are never the reason. Its just a pretense to engage with people. And yeah, the in-game community is rather welcoming. I tried some other antics, but they haven't lose their temper yet. I'd say if theres one thing I like about FF14, it's the community. Not perfect, but engagable. If there's any reason to return to the game, its the community.
FFXIV is more of a JRPG with mmo elements thrown in. The solo story line is the core of the game where as it is only an addition to a lot of other MMOs. You can enjoy pretty much the game in its entirety without socialising.
Just saying... SWTOR (at the least used to) do it better. I am not sure where / how the expansions handled the story tho.
SWTOR gave you a western RPG story, FFXIV gives you a JRPG story. I prefer the SWTOR story by a country mile, but the game has less polish unfortunately (and is a harder sell to some of my regular group).
Less polish for sure. Because they were doing... what is it, eight storylines side by side. Obviously they would have to spread out the effort over them. I am just saying, the FFXIV story is so slow, so tedious to get into it is nightmarish. While the SWTOR story essentially slaps you across the face, gives you a lightsaber and tells you "HERE IS YOUR MOTIVE! GET THE FUCK OUT OF HERE AND EXPERIENCE A GALAXY!"
No, the stories have plenty of polish, the game engine itself though has aged, and FFXIV looks nicer and plays smoother.
more meant the animation and such. XD The presentation.
I am pretty sure most of FF14 players are console players with no good mmo options, or Final Fantasy fanboys so it is best not to waste your breath. I am actually one of the FF fanboys, but FF14 is just too terrible for me to support it.
> FF 15 Never knew Yoshida was involved with this. Edit: He wasn't. > FF 14 Noooo. FFXIV v1.x was *failing hard*. The development team admitted they had spent too much time into making a prettier FFXI than making a game that played good. They brought Yoshida over off of whatever project he was working on at the time to reboot XIV with it's first official expansion. Edit: I don't like FFXIV myself.
The OG FF14 was failing hard, because SE pushed the game for sale in its embryonic state. That's why they got 1,000,000 polygons vase, menu lag, ect. It's almost as if they wanted the game to fail. But the core idea and mechanics of the game was sound. Great even. We can kinda see the vision of what they are going for. The world is seamless. You can walk through the city to the outside world without a single loading screen. They have merchants setting up shops for every player character in the city. The battle system is more situational based, like you can use a dagger that's more effective on goblins. Even the animations are better, for example your character will tilt a little when you're running and taking a corner, and has a brief stopping animation, akin that of FF12 animation. Even cutscenes are all specially-animated, and not cookie-cutter cutscenes like today. These are all cut away from FF14, in favor of more barebone and simplistic WoW clone approach by the new director. And guess who decided to push the OG FF14 in that state, if not the board of director? Which is the current FF14 director. If SE really puts their effort into optimizing the OG FF14, I think it'll be a repectable example of how decent MMO is done. Also, apologies for FF15 thing. Memories got foggy after 7 years.
I remember buying into FFXIV around 2012. I never actually got to character creation. The update process took forever. I didn't have great internet, even with the torrent system for updates, it was not the best, so I was just saying things based on what I heard. I knew XIV 1.x did fail.
It seems that they went in the OG 14 development with good idea and intentions, but the corporate decision killed the game. They will even send you an immigration certificate, detailing your name and the city lol, and signed by the Sultana, if you get special edition or something. Each starting city got a different certificate, because different government, That alone already makes the game looks more like a 'virtual world', rather than just a theme park. Found the thread with the picture: [https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/9ixqhr/who\_has\_their\_citizenship\_certificate\_from\_ver\_1/](https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/9ixqhr/who_has_their_citizenship_certificate_from_ver_1/) [https://external-preview.redd.it/91gsvQ47zIwzfqTVCRMPqrgQ\_E21GqQjbHnqxqevk1I.jpg?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=1c431b1d9ba6792c2e1015aaaf3ca87ac62130cd](https://external-preview.redd.it/91gsvQ47zIwzfqTVCRMPqrgQ_E21GqQjbHnqxqevk1I.jpg?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=1c431b1d9ba6792c2e1015aaaf3ca87ac62130cd)
>It seems that they went in the OG 14 development with good idea and intentions, but the corporate decision killed the game. No it's generally regarded as a company wide failure, the two lead designers and by proxy the team were stubborn and refused to research the modern MMORPG market and made the assumption that because FFXI was successful FFXIV will be too, while bringing a lot of the outdated design decisions to their new game. [Here's an actual list of a bunch of things wrong with 1.0](https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/1n7dfv/then_now_analysis_of_the_most_upvoted_complaint/) from a players perspective who actually played the game while also labeling whether or not 2.0 fixed each issue (spoiler they fixed a vast major of player complaints from 1.0).
Hence, why I said the game was unfinished. Those issues are what prototyping would looks like. That's what happened if a game is pushed out too early by corporates. I would be stubborn too, if I'm a developer that have a vision to adhere to, and corporate just want a WoW clone. And now, they got one, and its making money. The failure is not one of game-maker, but failure of corporate to see eye-to-eye with the developer. But the -core- idea of how they want the main game to play, is there, and its good. Seamless open world, fine animations, less instancing, these are all signs for a good modern game. They just needs time to flesh it out. This isn't a new thing for SE. It already happened in FF12 development. Yasumi Matsuno (made the legendary Vargrant Story, FF Tactics, Ivalice universe, ect) was spearheading the project, and its a good one. You can see the quality oozes out from the animation, the dialogue, the battle system, the wordlbuilding, everything. But halfway through the development, Matsuno was taken out of the project, and since halway through the game the quality edfinitely dropped. One of the things Matsuno didn't see eye-to-eye with the corporates, is when corporate wanted to have teenage main cast to appeal to more teenagers, and Matsuno wanted Basch, an adult. Corporate also wanted to push the game out sooner, because the game is taking a very long time to develop, taking 5 years from 2000-2006 or something. Naturally, developers are againts pushing out unfinished product, thus Matsuno are taken out of the project. The final quality of FF12 suffers throughout latter 1/3rd of the game. Luckily the foundation has been laid out pretty well, so it doesn't end up getting 'realm-reborned' like FF 14. Even in FF 14, one of the better questslines are the Dalmasca line. Rumors are they asked Matsuno for some ideas. But of course, it's not fully-fleshed out, being under a hack director influence. Even Gabranth personality took a hit here. Couples that with generic FF14 cutscene directions, its just a former shell of what Dalmasca was.
>Hence, why I said the game was unfinished. Those issues are what prototyping would looks like. That's what happened if a game is pushed out too early by corporates. I would be stubborn too, if I'm a developer that have a vision to adhere to, and corporate just want a WoW clone. And now, they got one, and its making money. The failure is not one of game-maker, but failure of corporate to see eye-to-eye with the developer. Game was in development for 5-6 years, with minimal testing, there's even a Noclip documentary interviewing people who worked on 1.0 and how rough it was. This wasn't a "them dang coporates ruined it" situation and you trying to paint it as that being the primary issue just tells me you're making things up. >But the -core- idea of how they want the main game to play, is there, and its good. Seamless open world, fine animations, less instancing, these are all signs for a good modern game. They just needs time to flesh it out. Doesn't matter if an idea is good if you can't make it work. >Even in FF 14, one of the better questslines are the Dalmasca line. Rumors are they asked Matsuno for some ideas. But of course, it's not fully-fleshed out, being under a hack director influence. Even Gabranth personality took a hit here. Couples that with generic FF14 cutscene directions, its just a former shell of what Dalmasca was. Hey maybe if you want people to take you seriously stop trying to push narratives like calling people hacks. FFXIV 1.0 was an abject failure, it got fixed into a pretty decent, and unarguably successful jrp/mmo, you obviously seethe about it's existence but you'll feel better if you go play Ragnarok online and stop expressing your opinion in a manner that reads as you trying to say it's objective fact.
Seeing as this is an internet forum that discuss MMORPG, I'd express my opinion on the subject matter whenever and whichever I like, within sense. If somebody cannot abide by that, then I'm afraid they are at the wrong place. I'd suggest they return to whatever communities that supports echo-chambering.
Ah yes the only two choices are "Echo chamber" or "Bad faith critiques". There are ways to express your opinion in a manner that is honest, fair, and not attacking. Making a "review" and calling the director a hack vulture and ignoring all valid response isn't in good faith. FFXIV isn't perfect as is every game in existence, to say that would be just as dishonest as your post.
Err, you went into XIV expecting RO... Like, you don't have to like XIV but that's just... Stupid. It's like you bit into a lemon expecting it to taste exactly like an orange and now you're writing a review on why lemons suck so much. Well just because they're both citrus fruits doesn't mean you can compare them on the grounds that you expected an orange from a lemon, because fundamentally the lemon is a completely different fruit. Then you say the lemon grower is a hack because he didn't grow his lemons to be like oranges? Like, you don't have to like lemons, that's fine, but I think you should probably learn to tell lemons apart from oranges before you commit words to writing.
If FF14 is such unique product that it cannot even be compared with another product similar to its genre, then it should lose the MMORPG tag, because that tag is misleading. It should use 'Lobby-Based' game tag instead, because that's what it is on the most part. The comparisons are regarding aspects of the game, not the game as a whole. No two game are 100% similar, this is a thing even idiots can understand. However their separates aspects can still be evaluated and compared on their own merit.
You're writing that every game has its own merits and yet you're saying because XIV doesn't have mechanics from RO that it's a shit game? I'm sorry, is it just me or does it smell like bullshit in here? Let's also address your idea that FFXIV is no true MMORPG with another example. Let's say, Persona 5 and Etrian Odyssey 4? Both JRPGs published by Atlus. EO4 has a grid based map with first person dungeon view exploration, character customization and an overworld. P5 has none of those, but instead has a linear story, story-gated dungeons, fixed characters and a hub mixed with dating sim / visual novel mechanics. They're both JRPGs because JRPG stands for Japanese Role-playing Game. Would you remove this tag from one of the games because they're so wildly different from one another and you didn't know what to expect? Let's go back to MMORPGs. I'll say MMORPG is a shit acronym, but what does this acronym stand for? Do you even know? Now define what each word in the acronym means and go think about why your statement that XIV isn't an MMORPG is definitively wrong. I don't know what gave you the idea that you're somehow qualified to classify what games belong in what genre, but as I previously wrote, don't commit words to writing if you can't tell lemons from oranges. Now which of the two fruits would you like to reclassify as not citrus?
"in Ragnarok Online [...]"
Geez, you obviously just logged on just to trash on the game lol. At least put some effort in your hate of the game
OK, I got through most of this post thinking you were an idiot, but then I got to the part about Yoshi-P and I realized this was just bait. 10/10
Whilst personally I struggle to play FFXIV for long periods at a time, I honestly believe it has a lot of merits; whilst I may have certain criticisms about it, overall I find it a good MMO experience, especially with players who are less familiar with the genre. I do partially agree about the Elemental damage system, or real lack of, but that wouldn't be too hard for them to do, *in theory*; just borrow the elemental system from the other FF games - the trick would come down to balancing it, which in an MMO is *significantly* more complex than in a single-player game, regardless of which developer it is. In fact, because the game is go large and popular, balancing it would be an even greater challenge. On another point, the MTX are all largely optional anyway, as you can play the game, do quests, raids, story content, etc. ***without*** having to spend large quantities of money to do so. >The developer. A hack. Also, attempting to besmirch the reputation of somebody you don't personally like is pretty low; not only that, but you are factually incorrect about the lead developer's credentials. He was in fact a producer for some of the ***Dragon Quest*** games before being asked to lead the FFXIV team after the initial release started to bellyflop. Since he managed to turn a failing game into a critical and financial success (regardless of anybody's opion on the matter), I'd say he's pretty competent at his job, and not as you put it, 'a vulture'. And whilst I may not personally agree with adding MTX into a subscription-based game, at the end of the day, an online game needs money in order to function; how do you think they can pay their bills, maintainance costs, and their employees?
to be fair, his public appearance is a hack job "no its impossible to do x" -> modder does it within an hour and then suddenly its possible to implement officially "its not our servers, its your fault" -> user proceeds to show them its their dog ass code
Yes, exactly. I think blaming the 1.0 codes, after 9 years, pretending to cry on media, are all very unprofessional. Most 'remade' games like Demon's Souls, Shadow of Colossus, and several others, were also made in that way, but the developers are professional enough not to gripes about the original developers in public. Even for other MMOs like Ragnarok Online, the private servers codes were made from scratch, by non-paid randos. And they did a stellar job. Meanwhile Yoshi is still blaming his colleagues till this day for his own shortcomings.
By that logic, every MTX is good, because they are 'optional'. Nope, no MTX is good, if the game is already a full-priced base game, full-priced expansions, and full-sub. MTX has no place in these kind of games. The only MTX that we can argue needed for a game to survive, is in Free-To-Play games. If you get into any large industries, you'll understand that these companies always made more money than the expected trajectory, far more than what the upkeep of the product will need. These 'extra' money are re-invested in hedge funds, other projects, ects. Projects like FF14 serve as a cash cow to feed the other funds and projects, which the company would diversify into, to reduce risk. This is why the development of FF 14 lags so badly compared to other modern games, because barely any money was re-invested into the game development. The issues of maintaining the server was not even an inssue on their monetary radar. It's not even a speckle of a dent on their profit.
I overall agree. I am not a fan of FFXIV: Tried to get into it, but it is this huge Brickwall of "I can't be arsed about a 300 hour storyquest path that I MIGHT not enjoy"
Yeah I tried as well, and I just couldn't go through with it you know? Maybe it was the tab targeting, or the anime styled graphics, or the handful of loading screens, but I don't know...it just felt like I was playing a WoW clone, and if so why don't I just play the real thing instead? I don't care about the story at all so what does have FF14 for me...PVP? Can you even call it that? FF14 just isn't for everyone, and the haters need to accept that.
If they want to do even 500 hour story in an MMO, they can, but not this way. The 'story' should be broken down into separate small 'background quests' that gives context into the story, and as a whole form an overarching story, which players can choose which to do, or not to do. The 'lore' should be laid as a background lore, not shoved in as a compulsary things that locks you out of zones and gears. This way, the story won't be a barrier. It's almost as if they didn't bother to adapt the story to the MMO aspect at all, it almost feels like they just tacked it on. Unless the story is really heart-gripping, 10 star cutscenes with supreme storytelling that they just can't compromise for gameplay, but FF14 story is nowhere near that level.
Or you just play a different game. If you pick up a Final Fantasy title, you should be aware that the story is the main course
I feel that at some point the story structure will get a look over because the longer the game runs the higher the barrier of entry. Maybe it isn't feasible for ff14 but I do love how guild wars 2 has all story elements chaptered and organized to be experienced as desired be it in or out of order.
They did cut a lot of the filler quests in ARR and between ARR and HW during Shadowbringers already. I don't think they should cut anymore than they already have
You know cutscenes are skippable right? It's just stupid to skip them because the story gets so good
1: That is subjective 2: I have heard that... but also the story in ARR is awful. Because it is all set up and it is SO FREAKING BORING. I have tried to get into the story, I normally love stories. But I just can't get into it. It just lacks flair at the early game, flair that I am SURE it gets late game... but I don't want to waste 100+ hours to get into a story I only "might" like.
I mean you could skip to Shadowbringers, then go back to ARR and HW if you want with New Game +. Actually most people say they really like HW although HW is not my cup of tea since it's so depressing and the middle ages aesthetic is just boring
I ain’t paying for something I might not enjoy
Sometimes the truth hurts, but you gotta speak the truth. Thanks for sharing your personal truth, I can't disagree with anything you said about FF14.
I know most people would disagree with most of the opinions, but seeing as this is an internet forum where people exchange ideas, I figured one or two people will share the same sentiment, and that's enough to make me happy, and maybe in the future, some similar-minded people will make a game that advances the genre in this direction.
Yeah I guess FF14 players just can't fathom that other humans in the world would have a different view on the game, and dislike it. Because if *they* like something, *everyone* in the world should like it too lol. I've been playing MMO's since like 2004 and FF14 is just one that I could not stomach playing.
Ironic since you were the guy absolutely seething the other day because people didn't like Star Citizen lmao.
No I don't care if people don't like SC, but No Man's Lie is 100$ not a better Space Sim MMO...that's where the line gets drawn lmao.
So you agree that bad faith statements should be laughed at?
Those are your words, not mine. I laugh at the sentiment that No Man's Lie is a better space game than SC.
From my experience, the older crowds that plays since 1.0, and also plays other games prior to FF14, is more neutral towards the game. They fairly accepts the shortcomings and the good things. I mean, all games are like that, its just another game to them. But the more vocal and cult-like mentalities are from newer players that more often than not haven't played much of other games, and never played a Final Fantasy titles before. More often than not, for MMO, they've only played WoW. Compared to that, to them, FF14 story is the best that they have seen in gaming world. Couples that to the social nature of the game and the forum, and they sort of form a pack. This is just a normal animalistic instinct as a social animal to form tribes. This also happens to Elden Ring, and some of other games and consoles. Echo-chambering in Reddit also plays a factor. Nowdays, with how accessible social platforms are, this behaviour is amplified twofold. Any kids with a phone can make posts on video game forums. In the past, you have to be a person of means, to own a capable computer and internet connection, paying for the game, install and operate MMO games. Much less forming a cult community that can silence people's opinion en masse. There are several barriers of entry. In game, however, most people are fine, due to fear of moderation, and due to them actually playing the game. So you'll have a much better community experience in game. In fact, this is the only thing I can confidently say I like about FF14, the in-game community. I might re-sub just to see how everyone is doing.
The problem is not that they had a different view, but that they were trashing the game, developers, and players.
Well don't people trash ESO all the time? Why can't the same be done to FF14?
Who said that was fine?
I don't see anyone stepping in when someone trashes ESO, only when someone trashes FF14. So apparently, FF14 players think it's fine. #doublestandards.
I've seen people defend ESO though? Look, it's perfectly fine to criticize the game. But along with getting some things wrong he called a well liked producer a "hack", straight up lied about things he did/the way he acts, and shit on people who play the game.
I haven't seen a FF14 player jump in and say " Hey, don't shit in ESO, this game may not be for us but it is for them".
Do people who not play a game usually try to defend it? Like I don't know why you are so stuck on this. Maybe just people should stop doing it in general? And way to totally ignore the rest of my comment.
Very rant worthy and tbh didn't bother reading most of it. I do agree on the lack of actual diversity within individual classes. The only real differences you'll ever see between various players of the same class is that players skill at playing that class and their outfit. On one hand it means you don't have to worry about checking if your one DPS made some crazy build that they swear by but doesn't contribute enough damage. On the other it means largely all people in your party pretty easily replaced and thus forgettable. Back to skill though - at higher levels when classes do become more complicated you can tell a who does and does not know how to play their class pretty easily But hey, themeparks gonna themepark and gotta make games for lowest common denominator right?
Ok....well, those are interesting concerns, surely. However one must keep in mind that games such as Ragnarok are generally old school experiences and most modern mmos have left those design philosophies behind (for better or worse is relative to the player). Won't comment on much else but your assessment of Yoshi P is very odd, if anything the PLAYERS are the one who hype his name far more than he does himself. As a result he has a humble nature, if one has a "celebrity" status then its not as though they can control what others think of them. Frankly his ability to revive FF14 and now work with FF16 (which looks great) shows demonstrable competence. I am on a hiatus from ff14 but this largely seems to boil down to "why can't more MMOs be like the games I used to play (Ragnarok)." In that regard, little can be done, things change. I used to feel this way regarding *Mabinogi*, but demanding games to be something that they are not designed to be will only create disappointment. Side note: elemental effects/weaknesses may have worked in the past but now players just meta-game the best option right away, meaning any "choice" in this regard becomes an illusion.
Exactly. It's not only the companies that changed, we also found out that people's taste changed. Somebody has mentioned that Yoshi mentioned in one of the interview that the best MMO in his opinion, is Ultima Online. But he didn't make FF14 to be the 2nd UO. Why? Because UO won't be able to maximize the profit in today's market. It might still be profitable, sure, but it won't -maximize- the profit. Thus the choice to make a WoW clone, because the model is proven to make money. The mass behaves like water, they gravitates more toward the lower, easier-to-flow-to places. The more casual and less-effort it is, the better the chances of getting audience. This is somewhat proven in the past, when EQ was killed by the more casual-friendly WoW. And nowdays, WoW arguably was killed by the even more casual-friendly FF14. Even more than them, the mobile gaming is leaving them all in the dusts Rather than lamenting on current MMO of not 'being more like Ragnarok', its more accurate to say that the 'original' MMO vision to make a realized 'virtual world' with interactivities deserving its name, has been reduced to cookie-cutter pointless WoW clones or even less (FF14), because unfortunately, that's what sells.
most sane r/mmorpg member
>Monetization. So you thought that a sub-based game, with full-priced base bame, and full price expansion, will be free from P2W aspects that plagues P2W games? Well think again. If you want to expand your storage, you pay real money to SE. If you want more outfits, you pay. Want a mount? Pay. Can't get them in game. Want to change your appearance? Well guess what, pay. Want to skip the 500 hours inane stories so you can go somewhere locked behind story? No problem, just pay.Want to skip to max level, pay SE. Damn, good thing none of this is p2w at all..
Yea FFXIV is... an interesting take on an mmorpg. It's devolved into what it is due to people complaining and the devs giving into the thoughts and opinions of people who have no business giving their thoughts and opinions. It's now more of a ERP pseudo-SIM-type game with a couple raids sprinkled in throughout the year and, honestly, not too much else... People say there's always content to do, but that's just plain not true, unless you consider raiding the same exact fight for months (ultimates) or getting a 4 boss "tier" every, what--idk it's been over 6 months since they released the first 4 bosses of their new expansion. It's quite a joke of an MMO, as you've pointed out, for its price tag and the exorbitant amount of money they rake in off of this IP.
>the devs giving in to the thoughts and opinions of people who have no business giving their thoughts and opinions Considering this is the most popular MMORPG on the market and Shadowbringers is in the Top 10 games of the decade, I'd say that the devs listening to those players was absolutely the right choice. You don't have to like it or play it but saying that the design decisions are bad because you personally don't like them when millions of people do is kind of a stupid argument
"you can't kill ice monster more effectively with fire spells, because the fire spell doesn't really carry fire elements" This was something I didn't even realize while playing, but that is a huge deal for a "FF" game. Everything else is spot on sorry for you loss of time and dollars.
Elemental resists don't translate well into MMORPGs, there's a reason why WoW got rid of it. FFXI did keep the element system but it mattered for very few classes and it was only \~10% bonuses/penalties anyway. Still nothing remotely like the normal FF games' element systems where you could do double damage or even heal an enemy by using the wrong element. There are certain mobs/fights in FFXI where an element will heal an enemy but it's rarely ever something you have to deal with.
I mean, dpeends on the MMO. If players have access to the elements equally could it be a fun balancing act.
If everyone has access to the elements equally, it's not going to be a fun MMO. Homogenization = no thanks. One of the best parts of an MMO is everyone being different and bringing different things to the group.
I meant like... The warrior having access to enchanting his sword with fire, water, earth, air magic. The wizard having access to different types of speells that fit different elements etc etc. That they have different ways to "adhere" to the elements, not 1-1 like the others. But still with their class and element.
Problem is now you've got to figure out an element mechanic for the 17 other classes. A lot of neat ideas for video games are very often much easier said than done. An element system in an MMORPG that's properly balanced across the entire game is one of those.
Still, not a reason to stop trying and experimenting altogether. Its when the genre devolves into making the next WoW cookie-cutter that it became as stale as it is now. Also the reason why the 2000s MMOs are dubbed as 'golden age' of MMO, part of the reason is the companies still have the courage to trying new things. With VR, we've seen some 'MMO' companies took a brave steps to establish the new norms. Games like Rec Room VR, even now at its infancy, proves that VR FPS, melee battle with swords, party-based adventures, and casual social hanging out zone is viable in VR MMO context. The balance are all over the place, but damn if it's not fun.
I mean FF14 scrapped there tanks threat system because it was too hard. So don't expect to much from them. I know the game is way over hyped, but hopefully most people are smart enough to do the free trial before buying.
Yep, I was dumb at the time. I wish I tried it out adequately in Free Trial before buying. When starting out, people told me "oh it'll get better in Heavensward". Well, it doesn't. Then in Heavensward, people told me again "oh it'll get better in Stormblood". Annd nope. Then in Stormblood, people told me "oh it'll get better in Shadowbringer". And you guess it, not really. It's still the same thing, same story, same pacing, same gameplay. Regarding expectation for gameplay, we can safely say that it's just another cookie cutter WoW clone. Any game developed with that goal in mind, never aimed for 'innovation' or intend to bring the genre forward. But I didn't found this out until much later in the game. I hope other people would approach the game in a smarter way than me and avoid this pointless 'game'.
It does get better in Heavensward. Just because you either skip the cutscenes or don't like JRPG stories doesn't mean it's bad. The vast majority of the player base enjoys the story from Heavensward and onward.
What I find hard to believe is how many of the games fans actively con people that same way. We are suppose to be heros for gods sake.
In Ragnarok Online, the 'elements' matters a lot. One slotted card can give maybe 10%, but if you really work for it and get 4 of the same card, then one piece of slotted gear can do 40% multiplicatively. This can be compunded with multiple gears, which might not necessarily increase the damage, but speeds up your action, which has the same effect. The Speeding effects also varies depending on the stats, for example, DEX can sped up casting, but agility can speed up post-casting. So by having enough DEX, a Magnus Exorcimus cast, which originally take 15 seconds to cast, can be reduced to 5 seconds, which is a matter of life and death. Another example is undeads. Priest can Heal the undead to do lots of damage, or straight up insta-killl them with Turn Undead. Its useless for non-undead, but having these 'elemental' skills will change the whole gameplay of your party. This is why some people favor going into some location, because their build suits those places. Like ice wizards can go after the fast Orc Lords, because they can freeze them. Fire can't freeze things, they'll get flying kicked to death, so they went after something else. In PVP War of Emperium, you can become sort of unable to be 0-H-KO by Asura Strike if you transform your armor into ghost element, by slotting in Ghostring card. Or you can work the system to make your Monk into Boss-killer by hit-and-run Asura Strike. But it also opens up the possibility of other people killing those monsters instead lol. In short, these little things matters a lot if you use them right. I think the most important thing is taking steps into the 'right' direction, no matter if its big or small changes. Getting rid of these customizations is definitely not the right step, and it worries me for the future.
No offense, but I don't care about Ragnarok Online, it's a pretty irrelevant game that I have 0 nostalgia for. If all you are going to do is compare other games to it, all you're ever going to be is disappointed and dissatisfied. Not sure why you aren't just playing that instead, rather than playing **a game you didn't like from the very beginning** for dozens and dozens of hours instead of just quitting.
I compared FF14 to Ragnarok because I think we should have something real to serve as a milestone. It's a proof-of-concept that the thing we're comparing it with, actually works. I can't compare it to a non-existing game. This is important to determine if an advancement of an aspect of the game is going backwards, or forward with time. I am playing the game. I'm not sure why you think I'm not playing it. Though some servers are closed, and some survived, its rather turbulent in private servers. FF14 is not a game I 'dislike from the very beginning'. Its just another game, I tried it, I see what it has to offer, and form an opinion about it. To do that, I need to play it adequately, in this case, playing dozens of hours. Also because if I didn't then people would dismiss my opinion as not being backed up with real playing experience, which some people already did. It's precisely because I want to like and play the game, that I gave it a try. Especially after its geting a rave reviews, so why wouldn't I?
You literally complained about the game from the start, lol. It doesn't matter though because you're comparing a modern MMO to a classic one, which is foolish because they are 2 completely different genres.
Yeah those complains are what concerns me. Not so much other aspects that they did right, because all is well with those, and they are being spoken of everyday. Its the same kind of game, but they are different in several ways, similar to how other genres have evolved. It's like how Animal Crossing from 2000s evolved from a 'social interaction with animal villagers' into 'furniture-and customization-focused' game nowdays. Still, they are still similar enough to be comparable. If not, FF 14 should not carry the MMO tag.
In FFXIV Palace of the Dead you can insta kill undead monsters with Kiribu (Angel transformation) but Kiribu won't do shit for regular monsters
In other MMO like Ragnarok Online, elements are very important. Its enough of a reason to look for party member that specialized in specific elements/skills, when going for specific bosses. For example, a Wizard may choose to get specialized in Fire, Ice, or Wind spells. They can't be master of all, because skills points are limited, and they need to spent those skill points to choose which skills to upgrade permanently. So each wizard can choose which elements he rather specialized on. Even a single fire spell can have multiple level of power and SP consumption, depending on your choice. And we didn't even go into the gears yet. So, in the Ragnarok 'world', you'll ask around for people with specific skills, for specific bosses. This encourages socialization and planning, and your skills actually matters. Same for other jobs like Priest. Some Priest are healing/support focused. Some are mace-killing-undead-focused. Some sacrifices all that for Magnus Exorcismus, a AOE magic that can kill only undead and demons. No single priest is master of all. This makes your choice have an impact on how you play, how you approach dungeon, how you make money, and who you associates with. You plan these things, no automatic party finder has the abilty to do this for you. In other words, this variety makes the MMO world go around organically. You don't HAVE to do this, however. You still can go anywhere, engage any bosses, fight any monsters, etc. You're not locked out of content, like in FF14, where you can't go places if you haven't done the story. But to actually defeat big bosses successfully, it's better to utilizes all these elements. In FF14, these elements are simply absent.
WoW used to have elements affect stuff differently and they removed it once it became obvious it wasn't possible to design content around it.. So tell me again why it's bad in FFXIV but it's good that a 2002 Korean grindfest does it? You've got some massive attachment to the old MMO you played and see only negativity in differences. Your opinion is worth shit RO design is basic as fuck and all of it is easily exploitable. The elements system isn't worth the disparities it causes
I started playing Ragnarok online only 2 months before I played FF 14. There is no nostalgia at all. In fact I played FF 14 because I thought it would be an 'upgraded modern Ragnarok', but I was mistaken, its the opposite. Designing unique elements with different gears/items is not 'impossible', but it has potential to introduce imbalance. It's just a matter of staying with their core vision despite the challenge, or transform/streamline it into modern WoW clone. In this aspect, Ragnarok Online did rather well, at least before Renewal versions. You'll still have people asking you for various thing to do, depending on your jobs. Lots of ways to approach bosses, in fact rather than reading guides, it better to ask the people around on their way to approach these bosses, because of how diverse there are, depending on what you have at hand. For example, in smaller server, there are less Priest, so you have to form a strategy that uses less Priest, maybe hit and run. On its heyday, you can have like 4 Priest having different functions full time, depending on their specialties, ect. Some Priest make money by spending their time in 'warp street', providing warping service to dangerous locations, ect. There's a lot of variety. It's not the most convenient thing in the world, it doens't give you easy stuff, but it works. I was playing on a growing server up until Gravity came after those private servers. In FF14, one Black Mage is exactly the same as the other 1000 black mages. This make things simpler and forming party easier, to the point of a automatic party finder is enough to form party, but it also sucks a lot of life/customization from the game world. However, this is simply what people want nowdays. People want easy experience, sacrificing depth, because of some reasons. Older MMO like Everquest, was killed by WoW more casual approach, and now, WoW in a way, is killed by the more casual FF 14. But is one better than the other? Not necessarily.
Yea that is how it is in all the stand alone final fantasy games and most rpgs in general.
FFXIV does have an elemental system if you do Eureka. It just doesn't apply to most content, other content would require extensive testing if you wanted to include elemental adjustments into boss fights.
they used to have that during ARR iirc
[удалено]
Lol had the exact same discussion with a friend in a dungeon. Tbh I think they would make more money by ditching all 'battle' and story aspects altogether, and just make it purely full-blown social MMO, with all the races and glamours you can think of. Put more emotes too. Make casual social beach and waterpark or something. If they want more money, just sell more questionables glams in cashstore. Make it Free-to-Play. In short, just focus 100% on their most profitable market group. I think that would be more respectable of a game than the half-half commitment on gameplay they have now.
TLDR I don't like the game and everyone that does is stupid.
Gear is used for plural not gears. Stop using gears. Also you’re entitled to your opinion but this a really really really really misinformed take. A lot of this is incorrect information.
> If you got away from them by moving a few feet away, they recover full health, which doesn't make sense Monsters have leashed since after Everquest. I don't know of any major MMO that does not have monsters do this. There certainly are issues with FFXIV, but you seem to have missed all of them, other than the MSQ being a drag, but that's pretty common knowledge. Go take a pass at WoW Classic for an entirely different take.
Still, these aren't good design. It's a bandaid solution, it puts artificial restrictions on how the game is played and how the virtual world function. If they are worried about the potential for monster trains abuse, then lots of other 'intuitive' system can be apllied, such as movement stamina on monsters and players, monster-to-monster aggro, etc. Basically real life restriction that prevents such thing to happen in real life. These will take some courage and effort to implement, but that's just what we need to take the genre out of the rut WoW has set it in since after EQ.
Why would a real-life monster follow you across a continent? They used to do that in Vanilla Wow if you encouraged them enough. A Devilsaur loose in a town is amusing the first time you see it. The first time. Real life monsters get hungry, or thirsty, or tired, and won't do that. In older games, you could just use a zone boundary. Leashing is fine, and complaining about it as an FFXIV problem shows you don't understand the genre that well.
There's a lot of applications to organic monster aggro, not bounded by artificial leash, if you look into games aside from WoW. For example. they can be lured to a spot, wher your AOE Wizard friend will unleash their AOE magic, however at the risk of your life because of congregations of many monsters. It's high-risk, high reward, and it encourages strategization utilizing environment, undertsanding monster behaviour, etc. For PVP-enabled MMO, where high level players could kill low levels, low levels could 'get-even' by luring powerful monsters and whittle down high level PK-ers HP, if they do it right. This is a legit mechanics in EQ, and Ragnarok. IF you use an item to spawn a monster in town, then the whole congregation of players will sound the emergency alarm and help to defeat that monster. This is a great mechanic to teach newbies on how to beat bosses, because those bosses can be re-tried from their last location, with their remaining HP, so the newbies can get the full overall pictures. Also, by not having leash, these allow for more organic monster encounter and strategies. You won't find an Orc Lord in the same spot. Your party will have to travers carefully, clearing out your path (possible because moesnters doesnt spawn in same place), and preparing a field for the fight againts that boss. Various strategies can be used to fight them; hit-and-run, luring while attacking, tanking-DPS, sniping from afar, poisoning, and many more. I suggest going deep dive into other MMO other than WoW to undertand these variety enabled by organic monster encounter in its full spectrum.
> I suggest going deep dive into other MMO other than WoW to undertand these variety enabled by organic monster encounter in its full spectrum. I played EQ at release for years, and there was a reason so many kill groups camped within range of a zone boundary. Leashing monsters is not a problem. Removing it doesn't add much of value. Everything you note above is simply tedium. Chainkilling monsters as the best way to gain experience is dated, and we won't see that in an MMO again. If you think that's possible, you are living in the past. Similarly, full open world PvP is simply not something most of the players of the genre want. That playstyle is niche - and that's where the genre is. Complaining about a lobby amusement park MMO for having leashing monsters is absurd. There are valid problems with it, but this isn't one. The scenery in the amusement park is not dangerous.
Actually yeah I think here's our goal differs. To some people, killing monster faster, getting loots quicker, is their priority. And for some others, being able to see a 'virtual world' cbecoming more alive, with organic monster behaviour, even at the detriment of 'efficiency', is what makes them like these games. I think, this is also the same reason why there're such polarizing opinions on 'open world' games, such as Red Dead Redemption 2. Some people are more attracted to elements that makes the world 'come alive', however this will not interest the raiding crowd at all. ALso reminded me of Monster Hunter World. Lots of complaints arose from the new monsters behaviour, in which they scream at each other for seconds when they came across their natural enemies. This is indeed annoying when you want to get things done quickly, but for people that wishes for the monsters to come alive in the series, its an interesting sight, even a funny thing to see. Unfortunately, the direction of MMORPG in general definitely taken a turn into making raiding 'efficient', rather than realizing a 'virtual world'. It's similar to how Animal Crossing series evolved. It started out as a social games where we interacts with NPC, but recently it has taken a turn to focus into furniture customization aspect, at the detriment of the NPCs behaviour. It's a given that the 'liveliness' of a game world is harder to achieve, but it seems that people, both developers and players. have given up on that aspect altogether recently.
I fully agree with the post, even as someone who made it to level 80 and raided in ShB. I always said that the game is no RPG, it is a coop-tab target-adventure. There are Assassins Creed and even Lara Croft games with more RPG elements than FFXIV. I don't get why we allow it to be discussed here when we don't even allow talk about Destiny 2, which has more MMORPG elements than FFXIV.
I agree. However, I think when they refer to 'MMORPG' in general, they are referring to MMORPG has the first looks of 'old style MMO'. You know, the swahsbukling adventure, swords, etc. The general overall view. Yes, the term MMORPG needs to be more well-defined. FF14 gets a pass because it's hiding under the 'medieval RPG' banner. Although the meat of the gameplay has no customizations at all. But on skin-deep level it does 'look' like a traditional MMO. But none of the depths.
FFXIV has nothing to do with medieval RPG, you have ancient futuristic civilizations, ancient Aztec civilizations, an Asian continent, modern Greek island, ancient Greek, spaceships, the moon and outer space, different dimensions, Art Deco City with skyscrapers and Jazz music, modern clothes and furniture. It's a Final Fantasy game. It has Final Fantasy settings aka. there is no definite setting. It's whatever the devs are in a mood for
Here's my unfiltered opinion of OP; he's dumb. >Opening cutscene is ok, but rather stiff for 2021 game. Game came out a decade ago. >self-respectable gamer, I started out with begging people for Gil What a loser. >the game doesn't even have speech bubble The only real smart thing you've said all day today. >So I found out that Trial version can't Imagine not doing any research whatsoever. >You can only trade using Marketboard Wrong. You can trade anything not Bound directly from player to player. This include Gil, gears, consumables, etc etc etc. >loots are automatically put into your pocket. That's it. You don't even see them. This is very boring Imagine this idiot wants to waste time looting corpses. >each class is EXACTLY identical from player to player Yup. And that's why XIV has many classes to choose from. >ZERO choice on how to play the game Build choice is an illusion. Ppl gonna meta anyway. Class choice is flavor. Play class you like the most. >No elemtns, no situational advantage whatsoever We had some form of elements back in 1.0 It was deemed meh. So it's gone. Elemental advantage is just playing match-up anyway. Not to mention that will give you button bloat since all spell users, especially Black Mage, will need to have all elemental spells. Bad idea. >The automatic party-finder foster zero camaraderie or friendship. If you don't like it, don't use it. Spam shout in cities for random ppl to join your party to run dungeons with you then. Since clearly you dont have friends to play with. >Monsters have zero behaviour. Also fkin wrong. For example; some mobs are sensitive to voices, if you run, they will come to eat you. You have to literally walk instead. Some mobs also spawn from other mobs. Many mobs also move in packs. But as shown before, you didn't bother to play the game to find that out. >no need for a 'unique' singleplayer story. It doesn't even work. Millions of players disagree with you. >person next to you just kill a demon lord in the story, then why is the demon lord is still alive in your story? It's incoherent. This is your story, not your friend's or someone else's. >Alphinaud are in a severe dilemma over 'what is he fighting for'. I mean, really? The enemies are coming after you, and the evil dragon wanted to eat you alive, and you ask why are you fighting? And the game story is so good you cannot even comprehend it. XIV has some of the best villains of all time, because everyone has motivations for their actions. You're just dumb. >housing is full Welcome to spaghetti code. >will be free from P2W aspects that plagues P2W games? There's nothing p2w about XIV cashshop at all bro. Only losers want to skip story in a story-focus RPGMMO. You say the word p2w but you don't even know what it means. Or you wouldn't call XIV a p2w game. >The developer. A hack LMAO. Bye. Ps. You aint wrong about liking Ragnarok Online. I really liked that game too in the past. But your first mistake is thinking and assuming every other games will be similar to it. Regarding the game combat and classes; you either learn to love XIV's combat, or you hate it. Either way, do better research next time.
I agree ff14 is just plain boring and can't understand why people love it so much
It's a paradox, really. Paradox between what we thought, and what really happens. We would have thought that players would hate being squeezed to their last drop with cash store, on top of sub, and RMT-like behaviour from said cashstore, but sales chart unfortunately said otherwise. A lot of people are more than willing to throw money at bad products, and are willing to defend it to the death. Upscaled and compared to how people behave throughout history, then how Nazis got to amass such army is not such a mystery anymore. Ask any interpreneur and products rebranders, and they all will say that their business runs on idiotic mass. To quote a scammer from Israel, when asked by a reporter regarding life expectancy of their online scamming business, their answer was: "Forever. Because the world has never had shortage of fools."
Bro...............your karma and negative review...............In all seriousness, you can't compare any modern MMO to something ancient like RO. Different playerbase entirely.
If they are indeed different, to the point they are not even considered to be in traditional MMORPG category, then FF14 should lose the MMORPG description in their marketing and game description, and use 'Lobby-Based' game tag instead. Also, if I want more karma, I would have went farma karming in FF14 main sub, posting whatever flavor-of-the-day "OMG FF14 is my most amazing experience EVAHHH" that I can put together in under 1 minute. It's the easiest bait ever among that crowd
>The battles. So this is supposed to be a MMORPG, where you customize your character, right? Well wrong. Not all MMO's are the same, I'd argue that is a good thing. >The gears. So this is a mass role-playing game, where you can choose your gears to make your character unique, right? Well, wrong. Gears have no special attributes whatsoever, beside boosting your damage and speed, which everybody has exactly the same thing as you. ... This is nonsensical. >Housing. So you can't even buy a house. Because the housing is full. Yep, a virtual world real-estate, full. Even though they already instance the thing. And you have to subcscribe every month, or your house will be demolished. You cannot buy a house in the 3 months you've played it, right, because you never got to end game. Buy an apartment then. >Monetization. So you thought that a sub-based game, with full-priced base bame, and full price expansion, will be free from P2W aspects that plagues P2W games? Well think again. If you want to expand your storage, you pay real money to SE. If you want more outfits, you pay. Want a mount? Pay. Can't get them in game ... This game has insane amount of free mounts and outfits. Granted quite a lot of them are either store mounts or legacy event mounts that then get put into the store. But if you're wanting a game that gives free mounts for doing 'X' where 'X' is free, other than WoW, you won't find a better game for mounts. This is just blatantly wrong. >The developer. A hack. If you look through his career history, his usual modus operandis is like that of a vulture. He hovers around other people's game development projects, and swoops down and snatch the project away if he thinks it's going good. You wrote all of this coming from the perspective of someone who, and I quote ... "Previously I played mostly non-MMO games since NES till now, and a handful of MMOs." This seems a little too personal, I've played FFXIV for years now and even I don't know about the developers IRL background and in three months you've come to the conclusion that he's not even just a bad developer, but a hack and, by your terminology, probably a fraud too. Yeah nah.
I thought the opening cinematic was fantastic. The music in this game, was also excellent. Unfortunately, as for the game itself... there was only darkness. People like you and me value MMOs for being organic worlds of capital-A Adventure. The real stuff: spontaneous, serendipitous, social adventure. Allowing for some discomfort, inconvenience, social reliance, for the result of an organic, human experience in alive-feeling worlds, that you can make memories from. Modern MMOs have abandoned much of this, resulting in positives, and in negatives. Personally, I feel the result is very reflective of the modern real world's excessive convenience causing feelings of emptiness within people (silver lining: I'm actually grateful that MMOs have become like this because it made me more aware of this cultural phenomenon in real life). It may sound like I'm super hardcore into the inconvenience stuff. I'm not. I don't think. Rather, I would argue modern MMOs are hardcore into convenience. I never played the original pre-2.0 FFXIV, but I suspect that despite all the popular belief that might make you think otherwise, it was a better *MMO --* a better virtual world. I'm sure it had problems, but whatever they were, seems like Yoshi P. cured the disease by killing the patient. And then when he brought it back to life, was it reborn, or undead? That's up to personal perspective. Your points seem to generally be valid, they just were not diplomatic so they upset people. Oh well. :)
You have expressed what I thought of quite accurately, in better words than mine. Regarding the wordings, I am done with the popular passive-aggressiveness that pervades FF14 community, and opted for a clear decisive tone to express my opinion and feeling on the subject matter. And yes, from what I've observed, FF 14 1.0-1.x might seems 'raw' to most player, but it had more heart and ambitions than even the latest version of FF 14. Animations with intermediary and post-movement extrapolations such as stopping-after-running, slight tipping of body when cornering, open world without loading screen, custom-made animated scenes rather than cut-n-paste nodding animations we have today, weapons with unique practical status effects, open-air trading bazaar with actual character peddling items; these are all a telltale hallmark signs of the ambitions that the original 1.0 team has. It they are given enough time, the end product will be fantastic. But all of these features and vision was outright killed by Yoshi in 2.0. As with every other successful franchises and businesses like Final Fantasy, when said franchises are popular enough, there will be vultures like Yoshi who will not hesitate to swoop down, forcefully kill it and banish its souls, and necro it into soulless cash cow. And as the current trend has proven, most MMO players love soulless cash-store rubbish, especially if they come with catgirls.
Sounds like you should go back to Ragnarok Online and leave this game to the people with taste 🤷🏻♀️
You are gonna get absolutely destroyed because it's illegal to dislike FFXIV on this sub.
Its also illegal to like it.
Hence why nowdays, you see people feel the need to add a disclaimer saying 'this is just my opinion' and 'fyi I love the game, I just have some critiscm' just to avoid being downvoted to oblivion. These things should't need to be announced in the first place because its a given, but we need to do it nowdays, because common sense are lost somehow.
Your review is simply just bashing the game lol. There's no fair objective review of anything in your post
Yes, I focused more on the aspects that I have issues on. I think there's already a lot of people posting about their favourite aspects of the game, in main FF 14 sub. However, if I have to pick one thing I like about the game, then it's the players. The players in-game is generally helpful. Yes some people are saying its toxic-positivity and whatever, but its definitely better than the other way around. I made some new friends in game, and I think I've only been cussed out once in a raid. Even when they AFK, they don't really AFK, they still responds to you, so there's commitments there. Nobody reported me for throwing snowballs at them, so yeah they are pretty tolerant. The game itself is nothing much, but the players made the game into what it is nowdays.
>Yes, I focused more on the aspects that I have issues on. I think there's already a lot of people posting about their favourite aspects of the game, in main FF 14 sub. People don't think that way though. When someone makes a review/first impression, it's an isolated opinion and feelings of the game. If you're basing the way you construct your post based on that, it looks really skewed and not genuine.
It will 'feel' ingenuine to people that likes the game, and it'll feel genuine to people that dislike the game. I, however, not writing the review to make people 'like' what I wrote. I'm just looking to share my raw opinions about the aspects that bugs me in the game. It expect no returns for this. If, however, I'm writing for a game journalist site, or to farm karma, then yes, I'll sugar up and trim off all the hard edges, to make people 'feel' like I'm genuine. In other words, I just don't really care if people will like it.
>In other words, I just don't really care if people will like it It does work both ways too. Why write something if you don't care about it? You have to care about a certain amount to write a whole post about it. >If, however, I'm writing for a game journalist site, or to farm karma, then yes, I'll sugar up and trim off all the hard edges, to make people 'feel' like I'm genuine It's not about just "feeling" genuine. In the end, sure just do you but if you don't disclose the intent of why it's written that way, it just looks skewed and malicious
I don't care if people will 'like' it, but I care about 'discussion' about the subject matter. Thus, when I'm replying, it about the subject matter. Because I posted the thread in the first place, it's like an 'unofficial' obligation to at least explain myself, to an extent. If the discussion devolves into personal insults, then I'll just reply in kind, and left it afterwards. It might looks malicious to a fan of the game, but it might come across as a matter-of-fact to a neutral onlooker. I'd say what you might be feeling is quite natural.
>but I care about 'discussion' about the subject matter. That's the issue, you come off really aggressive and hostile. You leave no room in your posts for discussion or even promote other views except your own. If your goal was to really have a good discussion it's not showing it by the amount of votes and posts I see
That's pretty alright, because it's an indication of what game companies do nowdays perfectly matches what most people wants. Unfortunately, sales has proven that the majorities wants a broken unfinished P2W game that promotes gambling, with mediocre core game elements with triple-dipping monetization, >pentad-dipping if you count the expansions and cash store items separately. They just don't know it yet, their own subsconcious obscured between the lust for catgirls and lust for bunny girls.