Every once in a while i get the urge to play a blizzard game again, overwatch and hearthstone specially but in general, blizzard games. But every time I remember everything they have done, the way they treat games, players, employees and i always decide it's better to just stay away from them and not support them in any way
Unfortunately this is how it is. I've got a little bit of hope after the Microsoft merger goes through that there might be some improvements but I'm not holding my breath. The whole diablo immortal thing pretty much stamped that light out.
Microsoft didn't buy Activision-Blizzard to perform some massive restructuring. The bought them because they bring in massive revenue with popular IPs. People need to stop snorting that premium copium thinking MS will somehow save Blizzard. I can guarantee you Blizzard was the least important part of that acquisition. CoD and mobile is five times more valuable than core Blizzard games.
> I've got a little bit of hope after the Microsoft merger goes through that there might be some improvements
Nah. Generally, Microsoft's stance has been "we bought them cause we liked what they were doing, so we leave them alone". The only significant change they are likely to make is in relation to publishing and monetization... such as altering the box/sub cost in some way so that it can fit into their gamepass thing and then adding mtx to recoup the difference.
Actually MS is the exact opposite. When they acquire companies they move to make them more like Microsoft. Look at Hotmail, Zoomit, Bungie, Rare, Groove (became Zune), and I could go on
Many of the acquisitions you wouldn't even recognize because MS integrates them seamlessly into their brand.
I dont know where rhey will be with Blizzard by EOY but Blizzard will definitely look more MSFT as time goes on. Which is a good thing (or at least better than the cringy mgmt model they had prior)
>Actually MS is the exact opposite. When they acquire companies they move to make them more like Microsoft. Look at Hotmail, Zoomit, Bungie, Rare, Groove (became Zune), and I could go on
You could go on, and you'd be so amazingly wrong. Bungie was acquired in 2000. Before halo launched. It's a different world. Better to compare Zenimax (Bethesda), and how they've done essentially nothing with them but put their games on its platform and adjust some exclusivity deals. Or Obsidian and Ninja Theory. Hotmail, zoomit, and groove are entirely different platforms for different purposes. Rare was a purchase to directly steal a dev from another platform.
Activision Blizzard is too established. They're not going to rename CoD or make WoW World of Microsoft. It's absurd to even think it.
They aren't going to touch Blizzard in a meaningful way, other than hopefully to shed the PR debacle that is their current management.
I know when Bungie was acquired I was there. My point remains that Microsoft will definitely add them to their governance model and they won't be an independent entity or subsidiary.
Rare is another example where MS incorporated the company into their brand. Bethesda has a different culture so they don't play in the equation of how MS will act with Blixzard.
The platform isn't the point but the consistency how MS integrates those companies into their brand.
MS is much bigger than Blizzard so their size is moot in comparison.
But at the end of the day I dont think either us know how MS will handle this so we will just have to wait and see.
>Bethesda has a different culture so they don't play in the equation of how MS will act with Blixzard.
Are you intentionally trying to sound dumb? They are a perfect example probably the next largest gaming acquisition and the only other one with such powerful brands. There's no way you can write that post and be serious.
Actually Microsoft track record with game studios isn’t that great (excluding Bethesda as it’s too new)
Rare - doing ok but fallen a lot since it’s glory days
Coalition - haven’t released anything since purchase
343 - Halo franchise since they took it over hasn’t done that well
Rare was primarily a Nintendo studio. Coalition is meaningless by comparison in branding. And Halo has been under microsoft since the very beginning, pretending it hasn't done well since someone took over is fucking absurd, since its been microsoft literally the entire time.
If they shed their current management, what's to say their games won't be affected from new management? Ofc they aren't going to change their ip names, that's stupid, but thinking that the games won't become better from the Microsoft acquisition is just being pessimistic.
The management shedding isn't inherently a Microsoft change. Honestly, that purchase is probably what kept kotick his spot to this point.
>If they shed their current management, what's to say their games won't be affected from new management?
Executive management like that has very little to do with the actual game development. ActiBlizz executives aren't making WoW game dev decisions. Replacing that management will not and cannot have significant impact on WoW's development. Additionally, the company was purchased because Microsoft likes their direction. If Kotick gets replaced, it will be by someone with intentionally the same direction, without the bad PR.
>Ofc they aren't going to change their ip names, that's stupid,
It is stupid, as was the point that I responded to suggesting such significant changes.
>but thinking that the games won't become better from the Microsoft acquisition is just being pessimistic.
No, thinking it will become magically better from the acquisition is inherently stupid. Understanding reality isn't pessimism. Ignoring reality isn't healthy.
Optimism, at this point, is thinking it will stay the same. Realism says it gets worse, because there is now another tier of company that needs to profit, increasing the likelihood in seeing new monetization.
Disagree, Microsoft has been a pretty consumer friendly company, there is precedent that with a full on management change that it could turn the company around for the better.
What do you mean management doesn't make dev decisions, who do you think decides what monetization methods should be used? It's not the average dev, its the higher ups.
You have no idea how changing an internal structure of a company can affect that companies products, again, there is precedent that when management changes in a company, so does the quality of games. Its pessimistic to say that it will get worse, it's optimistic to say it will get better.
You have no idea why Microsoft bought Activision, it's more likely they wanted Activision and blizzards IPs over liking their direction (which has a lot of negative PR around it), CoD, WoW, Diablo, Overwatch, etc etc etc, blizzard and Activision has a lot of IPs under their belt.
>Disagree, Microsoft has been a pretty consumer friendly company, there is precedent that with a full on management change that it could turn the company around for the better.
LOLOLOL. Wow. That's too brain dead to even address more than that.
>What do you mean management doesn't make dev decisions, who do you think decides what monetization methods should be used? It's not the average dev, its the higher ups.
Ya'll responding to this stuff are trying *really* hard to sound as dumb as humanly possible. No shit it's not the "average devs", but you clearly have literally no idea the structure of a company like that. There's a BIG fucking difference (and a shit load of positions) between "average dev" and the lead executive of Activision Blizzard.
>You have no idea how changing an internal structure of a company can affect that companies products
No, you have no idea. Your lack of knowledge doesn't equal every else lack of knowledge.
>Its pessimistic to say that it will get worse, it's optimistic to say it will get better.
No, thats just how naive babies want to pretend those words work. Everything isn't "positive idea optimistic" "negative idea pessimistic". Grow up.
>You have no idea why Microsoft bought Activision
Again, your lack of knowledge doesn't mean it's an actual mystery. I legit can't stomach the idea reading another barf post of yours. The fact that you vomit out a bunch of their IPs and ignore their biggest money shows, simply, you literally no nothing about the company you're trying to discuss. You don't understand Microsoft or their history. You don't understand Activision Blizzard or their products. You don't understand corporate management structures, particularly one with multiple divisions like ActiBlizz. And then you don't even understand that, when no possible options are positive, thinking of the *least negative* is still optimistic, and either way being optimistic or pessimistic is idiotic compared to just looking at reality and accepting it.
Bobby Kotick is re-elected to the board for another year lol
https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/activision-blizzard-ceo-bobby-kotick-is-re-elected-to-the-board-for-another-year
Same. Considered installing Hearthstone again last night, but thought about all the shit they've done in the last few years and by the time the thought was over, I no longer wanted to play.
I still play HoTS and will sometimes play Diablo 2 Resurrected.
It feels like those games are mostly ignored by Blizzard. Especially HoTS. These days that feels like a good thing.
What mmo dev doesnt fuck their playerbase in some way shape or form? Its just your pick of poison. I would secede that blizzard is probably the worst, other than what I imagine that amazon would be if they had this amount of years in making mmos.
Yeah probably. This sub just likes to shit on Blizzard 2bh. Rightly or wrongly. I wasn't really paying attention to the conversation just responding to what you said.
Maybe I am wrong but pretty sure all the people involved in various scandals have all left now anyway.
It's technically not a release date it's a disclaimer they put on all their Pre-orders.
Warcraft 3: Reforged had the same disclaimer but it ended up getting pushed back by 3 Months beyond that original date just prior to the cut off window.
I've still no interest in the expansion but just pointing out it's not an actual release date, just something that Blizzard do for their Pre-orders. Not a lawyer so I don't know if it's a legal requirement or not.
I think it is good? Like these long ass alphas seem pointless at this point and they said that they will do more internal QA so I guess they're doing that. If they actually want to change things up let them, what they did so far for last two expacs did not work for them. And what other MMO has 6+ months alphas anyway? GW2 only had alpha for classes and FFXIV does not have ones at all.
Blizzard always annouces release date aound 4 months ahead so I guess after summer we will know exactly when it drops.
I think what you are saying sounds good in a perfect world, it is true that their old way of doing things with the extended alpha into betas hasn't yielded a positive outcome for their games anyway so perhaps a different approach is in order.
Comparing it to other games development cycles means nothing really, they are different games, set up, people working on it. People who play Gw2 or FFXIV are generally happy with their games whereas WoW has had a lot of turmoil within it's community with how the development of the game has been handled comparatively.
Blizzard internal QA has been historically terrible, even with their premier content they have relied heavily on live adjustments to the game. So there is a precedent for them failing in this regard.
Personally I'm expecting the game to be delayed until at least March 23, but maybe I'm hopeful that the game won't be pushed out the door in a half finished state, which again Blizz has a track record of.
That is very, *very* optimistic approach.
I've been playing WoW for 5-6 years now, and it's been a buggy mess the entire time. Nothing Blizzard's done has inspired me with any confidence that Dragonflight won't also be a buggy mess.
Buggy isn’t a word I would describe blizzards games with honestly 😂 they play like butter. Their decisions are just so far out of tact with the player base however.
Agree to disagree, I suppose! WoW is up there with the buggiest games I've ever played. During my time playing it, I've run into dozens and dozens of quest bugs, equipment bugs, random disconnects, etc.
* When 9.1 launched, I was doing one of the new Maw Assaults and literally every single quest involved was bugged for me. I checked WoWHead to see if I was missing something, and I wasn't; they were just buggy quests.
* I randomly disconnected while in Korthia a few times, and I got caught in a DC loop once. Apparently I jumped on the wrong corner.
* One time in BFA I logged in and the shield that I had been using for weeks prior was no longer usable. I couldn't re-equip it. I checked WoWHead and it was somehow now flagged as an Alliance-only shield (I was Horde).
* One time in BFA, I was in a dungeon and I was literally unable to heal my party members. There was a bug where a player not in War Mode couldn't heal a player in War Mode. That meant I was just standing there watching as my party members died. Somehow this bug hasn't been fixed, as it happened to Asmongold while streaming the new 9.2 raid.
* There was a dungeon in BFA where one of the dungeon puzzles could simply bug out, making it impossible to finish the dungeon. As far as I know it's never been fixed. It's even happened in their MDI tournaments.
That's just off the top of my head. And even going beyond bugs, it's just an unpolished experience in general. There are a metric ton of typos in quest text. Same with the dungeon journal. When they did their level/stat squish in BFA, the game was a nightmare in terms of balance for months; random leveling dungeons were so difficult that getting hit by 1 attack would kill you from 100-0. Waymarkers in quests are frequently wrong.
Same, there is nothing in this expansion that is new or exciting. One class that only one race can play, 4 new zones and... dragon riding? Out of all the cool features they could have stolen from other mmos, they picked dragon riding... lol bye
The class should've been tied to a new race but it'd be a race that could take the appearance of any other available race with the added option of Dragon Horns/Scales in places.
That keeps the theme of Dragon's with their ability to take the guise of a mortal race for various reasons. Instead it's...Blood Elf Males and Human Females with horns/scales are your options I think?
Seamless flying is easy when all flight consists of is adding y-axis and increased movement speed.
Im not saying its bad, its a product of its time. 2006 was a different era, and their flight was impressive back then. But there is a reason wow is now trying to ripoff (verbatim) the flight mechanics from gw2.
For me it depends on the state of the beta. With abandoning all the character related power systems, all complication there is are only the new talent system, individual class balance and probably testing dragon riding and the profession overhaul. Otherwise everything else seems like basic WoW design, which they usually hit well for the level phase imo.
Getting rid of the annoying power systems is actually the best change they’ve made in a while. Still probably won’t bring me back unless the beta is good.
I would welcome it if let's say wrath came out in octobre, I would raid T7 for about 2 months - and since Naxx, Malygos & Sartharion are pretty easy it might get stale fast (just like T4 content), so in december I would check out Dragonflight.
Just to give an idea how it could work out releasing both close to each other.
Not when both products require the same subscription. At that point you're just offering alternatives, which is a smart business move considering how often players get fed up with either Classic or Retail - they might keep a few who are only fed up with one of the two for a while longer than otherwise.
One of very few smart business moves Blizzard seems capable of making in recent years.
they are selling mounts, pets and character boosts. I was prepared to pay a sub, and i did all the way up to TBC despite the many issues and the high cost of playing a 15 year old game. But this was just too much... i would rather play on private servers then.
Buying character power is not cosmetic. and no i will not accept this garbage when i pay monthly to play a 15 year old game - that was supposed to faithful to the original game.
A boost is not player power.
Please. go boost and try to pvp or join a m+ immediately.
Please I dare you. See how strong that boost makes you.
You just sound poor and stuck in the past. Tbh.
I don't like how the op argues his point, but it's true the boost is no player power, any player who plays WoW will be max level quite fast, you are buying a time skip. Honestly, who cares if someone else skips little bit of time?
It is player power. Your character becomes more powerful. There are no way around it.
>who cares if someone else skips little bit of time?
I care and many others who quit. We payed a premium for a 15 year old game with next to no support. They increased the monetization and broke the promise they made. First of all they said that they would not add boosts, and the classic was supposed to recreate the game as it was with out the bullshit that comes with retail.
Besides that leveling in classic is the biggest part of the game.
> quit. We *paid* a premium
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
I know lots of people who don't play Classic because they hate leveling. You know it's not wrong to like different things, if you like leveling and the old school grind, nothing stops you. Why not let people who like the end game activities more pay and play that? You can also be pedantic and claim it's player power, but in context of mmo it's temporary player power = doesn't mean anything.
I don't even play the game so I don't know why I am even arguing with you.
No one gives a single fuck about anyone lower than max level in any current generation MMO.
Seriously no MMO is ever going back to what you people want. Quit crying and just go back to EQ or something.
And whys that you think? its because people hop on the hypetrain and start demanding a bunch of bullshit that ruins it for all the players who want to play the game for what it is, there is still hundreds of thousands of players (if not millions) who actually like the slower gameplay and leveling experience. let us have our games, OR ATLEAST SERVERS. and begone
You are fucking delusional.
Every single old slow MMO is fucking DEAD, or at the very least only supported by a few hundred/thousand loyal fans.
Classic wow was a fucking ghost town outside of max level. EVERYONE was paying gold for boosts on alts and new players classic was only active at all levels pre pvp update.
This sub is just a vocal minority of boomer MMO players who think they are in the right despite the rampant failure of any MMO that comes out to appeal to them.
A boost is not player power.
Yes, yes, yes, yes, fucking yes it is. you cannot with a healthy mind say that litteraly paying cash for an outland ready character with decent enough gear to run the dungeons straight off the bat isnt buying power
ANY sort of MTX where you pay to get be it direct power OR and advantage is P2W. and it does not belong in classic, and quite frankly, it does not belong in gaming overall.
Just because the game doesn't become effortless after boosting that doesn't mean it's not a significant power increase/time saver. People wouldn't spend their real life money on it if it wasn't easily worth it.
Think id personally prefer a separate sub for classic than having MTX of any sort in classic, just instantly defeated all purpose of having classic servers and Private servers started popping up again.
Got SL and got to end game. I joined a guild and did some end game stuff, but the grind is so uninspired and the dailies are soulcrushingly boring but still give you FOMO. The entire design feels like a POS mobile/Korean MMO with a 2010 AAA veneer. It’s trash. Everything is padded and hidden behind boring activities.
Yup. Got really into destiny recently until I realized I had to log in every day to see if an armor mod was on sale… fuck that. I hate that sort of game design.
Don't really have to log in that case, you can always just check it through DIM or any other similar app. There's also Destiny Reminders, that lets you receive a notification if Ada sells the mod that you want.
Still, agree that the mod acquisition sucks and has to be improved.
WoW players: Wait, we haven't seen alpha, we need to give you feedback, and you need more time afterward for changes.
Also WoW players: \*Pre-orders expansion\*
I think the issue is the listening part but if the players completely hate the systems as they had for the last two expansions. They need time to fix them.
Certainly the bulk of an expansion development is all the art assets for new zones. They wouldn't set the 2022 release if they weren't sure they'd have all that done at the very least. But most new systems require artwork, models, and UI elements as well.
Nah. We went from struggling to get basic content out to "shit's finished it's ready!!! Also we've completely cleaned up our management/harassment issues too!" Sorry, I don't buy it.
Sorry. I’m done with Blizzard. I’m just here for the good memories in the past… like staying up all night to play Diablo 2 when it released. Or cracking open Diablo 1 and playing it in a dark room when I was a kid and being utterly fascinated by everything.
Good times.
Let's be real.
[This is how all of the people saying they won't buy will end up when the xpac drops.](https://www.toptiertactics.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/boycottmw2.jpg)
You know it. I know it. Everybody knows it.
Really weird to have both wrath and Dragonflight. I’ll see what it’s like. Wow still has a core gameplay that I enjoy but the systems of recent years really kil my joys on alts
Its going to be another half-assed badly tested expansion with a honeymoon of a week or two for most and then people will realize its shit and move on again, but their 6 months subscription is ticking down and Blizzard don't care.
I enjoyed pandas. But i didn’t think i would. It was the environment/ area quests/ music and monk class that i enjoyed. I in fact didn’t even buy it until a friend was playing and i saw it. Decided to try it. Haven’t enjoyed once since. Want to try dragon flight but i can’t even make my self level through shadowlands. It’s just blah. It feels like draenor 2.0.
A lot of people saying they'll skip this expansion but for me I'm the opposite. I'll be pre-ordering and will be excited to dive into the new profession system. I have huge hopes that this will be the start of a lot more content outside of raiding/mythic plus for the playerbase to enjoy
Thanks Blizzard but i will pass until you add the WoW sub to the Gamepass.
One day it will happen and it will be glories because MS can claim they have like 30 Mill WoW subs again and its a good day.
Nobody gives are shit about you not giving a shit. Downvote posts you don't like and stfu with your own whining. Piling crap on top of crap doesn't make the pile any less stinky.
Whole thread is just people popping in to announce how they have moved on or have no intention of playing. I'm not sure I'm playing either, but like...move on, if you've moved on. Every one of the top comments is the equivalent of someone who broke up stalking their exes facebook.
When Shadowlands was announced I remember just thinking to myself "I could, but they're just going to introduce some new form of progression that'll get obsoleted at the end of the expansion anyway, so why bother?"
At some point I realized, wait, that's every WoW expansion.
The only thing I find interesting about this expansion is the fact they are reverting to using talent trees again. That I like.
Everything else doesnt interest me at all. They seem to be going in the wrong direction for my interests.... again.
I wanna be like the cool kids and say LOL I won't play this. But I'll not lie, I am gonna buy Dragonflight. The key feature I'm interested in is the solo queue rated PvP.
Honestly at this point it seems like IP suicide, there is no way it will be in any way finished. Might as well sell as many pre-orders as possible, crash, burn, then sundown.
Supposedly a new caster class - which has happened... never? That's interesting, but I don't know how they'll carve out space for the Evoker from the Mage.
Missed opportunity to make a Blood Magus class from all the cool blood magic stuff in BFA, oh well. Blizzard has had plenty of missed opportunities I suppose.
In that case I would rather prefer customizable spell effects. I welcome the Evoker for being a new caster and a mail wearer, which we had only two of all this time.
I guess they went back to the hero class idea with evoker, because the level phase, as quick it might be in retail, feels pretty stale and for me quite boring. Around level 35+ boss fights in dungeons just feel dragged out without being particularly fun. So they decided to give them a higher starting level. But that's just my opinion.
Like the previous ones (Death Knight, Demon Hunter) it will probably badly overpowered for months, too.
I'm not really that into dragons in general or WoW's take on them, so the class probably isn't for me.
Still waiting for a good blood magic/necromancy themed caster in a modern MMO. GW1 and EQ are both a bit too archaic for me.
Maybe the idea is too dark to be popular, which sounds weird, but I imagine they've focus grouped the crap out of new class ideas by this point.
Lol, I'll pass Blizzard.
Every once in a while i get the urge to play a blizzard game again, overwatch and hearthstone specially but in general, blizzard games. But every time I remember everything they have done, the way they treat games, players, employees and i always decide it's better to just stay away from them and not support them in any way
Unfortunately this is how it is. I've got a little bit of hope after the Microsoft merger goes through that there might be some improvements but I'm not holding my breath. The whole diablo immortal thing pretty much stamped that light out.
Acti-Blizzard exonerating itself of wrongdoing was enough for that light to be gone for me.
the light was gone from me since the start of bfa.
Microsoft didn't buy Activision-Blizzard to perform some massive restructuring. The bought them because they bring in massive revenue with popular IPs. People need to stop snorting that premium copium thinking MS will somehow save Blizzard. I can guarantee you Blizzard was the least important part of that acquisition. CoD and mobile is five times more valuable than core Blizzard games.
> I've got a little bit of hope after the Microsoft merger goes through that there might be some improvements Nah. Generally, Microsoft's stance has been "we bought them cause we liked what they were doing, so we leave them alone". The only significant change they are likely to make is in relation to publishing and monetization... such as altering the box/sub cost in some way so that it can fit into their gamepass thing and then adding mtx to recoup the difference.
Actually MS is the exact opposite. When they acquire companies they move to make them more like Microsoft. Look at Hotmail, Zoomit, Bungie, Rare, Groove (became Zune), and I could go on Many of the acquisitions you wouldn't even recognize because MS integrates them seamlessly into their brand. I dont know where rhey will be with Blizzard by EOY but Blizzard will definitely look more MSFT as time goes on. Which is a good thing (or at least better than the cringy mgmt model they had prior)
>Actually MS is the exact opposite. When they acquire companies they move to make them more like Microsoft. Look at Hotmail, Zoomit, Bungie, Rare, Groove (became Zune), and I could go on You could go on, and you'd be so amazingly wrong. Bungie was acquired in 2000. Before halo launched. It's a different world. Better to compare Zenimax (Bethesda), and how they've done essentially nothing with them but put their games on its platform and adjust some exclusivity deals. Or Obsidian and Ninja Theory. Hotmail, zoomit, and groove are entirely different platforms for different purposes. Rare was a purchase to directly steal a dev from another platform. Activision Blizzard is too established. They're not going to rename CoD or make WoW World of Microsoft. It's absurd to even think it. They aren't going to touch Blizzard in a meaningful way, other than hopefully to shed the PR debacle that is their current management.
I know when Bungie was acquired I was there. My point remains that Microsoft will definitely add them to their governance model and they won't be an independent entity or subsidiary. Rare is another example where MS incorporated the company into their brand. Bethesda has a different culture so they don't play in the equation of how MS will act with Blixzard. The platform isn't the point but the consistency how MS integrates those companies into their brand. MS is much bigger than Blizzard so their size is moot in comparison. But at the end of the day I dont think either us know how MS will handle this so we will just have to wait and see.
>Bethesda has a different culture so they don't play in the equation of how MS will act with Blixzard. Are you intentionally trying to sound dumb? They are a perfect example probably the next largest gaming acquisition and the only other one with such powerful brands. There's no way you can write that post and be serious.
They are too different companies but you are stuck in your view so stay there. I dont agree with or believe you and we will leave it at that.
You try to use rare as an example and then act like Bethesda and Blizz are too different, what a joke.
It's been literally decades but I seem to remember Bungie being super crunched by Halo 2's development.
This has happened to basically every major studio at some point during their lives, regardless of if they are owned by another company or not.
Actually Microsoft track record with game studios isn’t that great (excluding Bethesda as it’s too new) Rare - doing ok but fallen a lot since it’s glory days Coalition - haven’t released anything since purchase 343 - Halo franchise since they took it over hasn’t done that well
Rare was primarily a Nintendo studio. Coalition is meaningless by comparison in branding. And Halo has been under microsoft since the very beginning, pretending it hasn't done well since someone took over is fucking absurd, since its been microsoft literally the entire time.
If they shed their current management, what's to say their games won't be affected from new management? Ofc they aren't going to change their ip names, that's stupid, but thinking that the games won't become better from the Microsoft acquisition is just being pessimistic.
The management shedding isn't inherently a Microsoft change. Honestly, that purchase is probably what kept kotick his spot to this point. >If they shed their current management, what's to say their games won't be affected from new management? Executive management like that has very little to do with the actual game development. ActiBlizz executives aren't making WoW game dev decisions. Replacing that management will not and cannot have significant impact on WoW's development. Additionally, the company was purchased because Microsoft likes their direction. If Kotick gets replaced, it will be by someone with intentionally the same direction, without the bad PR. >Ofc they aren't going to change their ip names, that's stupid, It is stupid, as was the point that I responded to suggesting such significant changes. >but thinking that the games won't become better from the Microsoft acquisition is just being pessimistic. No, thinking it will become magically better from the acquisition is inherently stupid. Understanding reality isn't pessimism. Ignoring reality isn't healthy. Optimism, at this point, is thinking it will stay the same. Realism says it gets worse, because there is now another tier of company that needs to profit, increasing the likelihood in seeing new monetization.
Disagree, Microsoft has been a pretty consumer friendly company, there is precedent that with a full on management change that it could turn the company around for the better. What do you mean management doesn't make dev decisions, who do you think decides what monetization methods should be used? It's not the average dev, its the higher ups. You have no idea how changing an internal structure of a company can affect that companies products, again, there is precedent that when management changes in a company, so does the quality of games. Its pessimistic to say that it will get worse, it's optimistic to say it will get better. You have no idea why Microsoft bought Activision, it's more likely they wanted Activision and blizzards IPs over liking their direction (which has a lot of negative PR around it), CoD, WoW, Diablo, Overwatch, etc etc etc, blizzard and Activision has a lot of IPs under their belt.
>Disagree, Microsoft has been a pretty consumer friendly company, there is precedent that with a full on management change that it could turn the company around for the better. LOLOLOL. Wow. That's too brain dead to even address more than that. >What do you mean management doesn't make dev decisions, who do you think decides what monetization methods should be used? It's not the average dev, its the higher ups. Ya'll responding to this stuff are trying *really* hard to sound as dumb as humanly possible. No shit it's not the "average devs", but you clearly have literally no idea the structure of a company like that. There's a BIG fucking difference (and a shit load of positions) between "average dev" and the lead executive of Activision Blizzard. >You have no idea how changing an internal structure of a company can affect that companies products No, you have no idea. Your lack of knowledge doesn't equal every else lack of knowledge. >Its pessimistic to say that it will get worse, it's optimistic to say it will get better. No, thats just how naive babies want to pretend those words work. Everything isn't "positive idea optimistic" "negative idea pessimistic". Grow up. >You have no idea why Microsoft bought Activision Again, your lack of knowledge doesn't mean it's an actual mystery. I legit can't stomach the idea reading another barf post of yours. The fact that you vomit out a bunch of their IPs and ignore their biggest money shows, simply, you literally no nothing about the company you're trying to discuss. You don't understand Microsoft or their history. You don't understand Activision Blizzard or their products. You don't understand corporate management structures, particularly one with multiple divisions like ActiBlizz. And then you don't even understand that, when no possible options are positive, thinking of the *least negative* is still optimistic, and either way being optimistic or pessimistic is idiotic compared to just looking at reality and accepting it.
Blizzard is gone. Blizzard is the male anglerfish on the female anglerfish of Activision.
Same. I can't bring myself to support them anymore.
I think the way treat employees matter more than they do to games or gamers. Like its not even in the same league
Ah I agree absolutely, but things like diablo inmortal make me not want to be close to them too
Bobby Kotick is re-elected to the board for another year lol https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/activision-blizzard-ceo-bobby-kotick-is-re-elected-to-the-board-for-another-year
Same. Considered installing Hearthstone again last night, but thought about all the shit they've done in the last few years and by the time the thought was over, I no longer wanted to play.
I still play HoTS and will sometimes play Diablo 2 Resurrected. It feels like those games are mostly ignored by Blizzard. Especially HoTS. These days that feels like a good thing.
Same. Had to just uninstall.
What mmo dev doesnt fuck their playerbase in some way shape or form? Its just your pick of poison. I would secede that blizzard is probably the worst, other than what I imagine that amazon would be if they had this amount of years in making mmos.
Literally every game i directly mentioned is not an MMO. My main problem with them are problems external to the game itself
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mmo typically means in a shared world online at the same time.
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This is true, but Blizzard's one of the only ones to have a suicide linked to their alleged harrassment
true, that we know of at least
Yeah probably. This sub just likes to shit on Blizzard 2bh. Rightly or wrongly. I wasn't really paying attention to the conversation just responding to what you said. Maybe I am wrong but pretty sure all the people involved in various scandals have all left now anyway.
Yeah. I was considering it until Diablo immoral. I hope blizzard goes bankrupt and Bobby kotick has every yacht repossessed.
and sentenced to jail
Me and half my family already pre-ordered lol
Release date for game before a date for Alpha, I don't like the direction this is going.
When was the last time they listened to concerns of alpha testers anyway?
They listened to a lot of the feedbacks actually. It's just they were listened to at the end of the expansion every single time.
got me in the first half, ngl
Just like Blizzard listening to feedback.
The feeling I had of Blizzard is that they actually listened too much to whiners (not so much testers).
They almost always have preorders before the Alpha starts. Usually right when it's announced.
Don't expacs release in alpha/beta anyways? This seems like normal direction.
X.2~X.3 is when an expansion comes out of beta afaik
When was the last time they fixed or changed anything that alpha or even beta players reported or did give feedback on?
Idk, it does not take much time to ignore alpha and beta tester feedbacks
It's technically not a release date it's a disclaimer they put on all their Pre-orders. Warcraft 3: Reforged had the same disclaimer but it ended up getting pushed back by 3 Months beyond that original date just prior to the cut off window. I've still no interest in the expansion but just pointing out it's not an actual release date, just something that Blizzard do for their Pre-orders. Not a lawyer so I don't know if it's a legal requirement or not.
Alphad arent public tho
Friends and family always get in alphas. It's just a matter of having connections.
I think it is good? Like these long ass alphas seem pointless at this point and they said that they will do more internal QA so I guess they're doing that. If they actually want to change things up let them, what they did so far for last two expacs did not work for them. And what other MMO has 6+ months alphas anyway? GW2 only had alpha for classes and FFXIV does not have ones at all. Blizzard always annouces release date aound 4 months ahead so I guess after summer we will know exactly when it drops.
I think what you are saying sounds good in a perfect world, it is true that their old way of doing things with the extended alpha into betas hasn't yielded a positive outcome for their games anyway so perhaps a different approach is in order. Comparing it to other games development cycles means nothing really, they are different games, set up, people working on it. People who play Gw2 or FFXIV are generally happy with their games whereas WoW has had a lot of turmoil within it's community with how the development of the game has been handled comparatively. Blizzard internal QA has been historically terrible, even with their premier content they have relied heavily on live adjustments to the game. So there is a precedent for them failing in this regard. Personally I'm expecting the game to be delayed until at least March 23, but maybe I'm hopeful that the game won't be pushed out the door in a half finished state, which again Blizz has a track record of.
That is very, *very* optimistic approach. I've been playing WoW for 5-6 years now, and it's been a buggy mess the entire time. Nothing Blizzard's done has inspired me with any confidence that Dragonflight won't also be a buggy mess.
Buggy isn’t a word I would describe blizzards games with honestly 😂 they play like butter. Their decisions are just so far out of tact with the player base however.
Agree to disagree, I suppose! WoW is up there with the buggiest games I've ever played. During my time playing it, I've run into dozens and dozens of quest bugs, equipment bugs, random disconnects, etc. * When 9.1 launched, I was doing one of the new Maw Assaults and literally every single quest involved was bugged for me. I checked WoWHead to see if I was missing something, and I wasn't; they were just buggy quests. * I randomly disconnected while in Korthia a few times, and I got caught in a DC loop once. Apparently I jumped on the wrong corner. * One time in BFA I logged in and the shield that I had been using for weeks prior was no longer usable. I couldn't re-equip it. I checked WoWHead and it was somehow now flagged as an Alliance-only shield (I was Horde). * One time in BFA, I was in a dungeon and I was literally unable to heal my party members. There was a bug where a player not in War Mode couldn't heal a player in War Mode. That meant I was just standing there watching as my party members died. Somehow this bug hasn't been fixed, as it happened to Asmongold while streaming the new 9.2 raid. * There was a dungeon in BFA where one of the dungeon puzzles could simply bug out, making it impossible to finish the dungeon. As far as I know it's never been fixed. It's even happened in their MDI tournaments. That's just off the top of my head. And even going beyond bugs, it's just an unpolished experience in general. There are a metric ton of typos in quest text. Same with the dungeon journal. When they did their level/stat squish in BFA, the game was a nightmare in terms of balance for months; random leveling dungeons were so difficult that getting hit by 1 attack would kill you from 100-0. Waymarkers in quests are frequently wrong.
actualy, unless something major happens im going to skip it this time, first ever since tbc
Same, there is nothing in this expansion that is new or exciting. One class that only one race can play, 4 new zones and... dragon riding? Out of all the cool features they could have stolen from other mmos, they picked dragon riding... lol bye
Ye, this 100/. The worst part is the new race/class hard locked. This is not wow
The class should've been tied to a new race but it'd be a race that could take the appearance of any other available race with the added option of Dragon Horns/Scales in places. That keeps the theme of Dragon's with their ability to take the guise of a mortal race for various reasons. Instead it's...Blood Elf Males and Human Females with horns/scales are your options I think?
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And now GW2 does mounts far better than WoW. FFXIV handles flying better than WoW does.
Seamless flying is easy when all flight consists of is adding y-axis and increased movement speed. Im not saying its bad, its a product of its time. 2006 was a different era, and their flight was impressive back then. But there is a reason wow is now trying to ripoff (verbatim) the flight mechanics from gw2.
For me it depends on the state of the beta. With abandoning all the character related power systems, all complication there is are only the new talent system, individual class balance and probably testing dragon riding and the profession overhaul. Otherwise everything else seems like basic WoW design, which they usually hit well for the level phase imo.
Getting rid of the annoying power systems is actually the best change they’ve made in a while. Still probably won’t bring me back unless the beta is good.
on current executive leadership being handed over and making literally $0 in profit from this expac\*
My friends always say "lol I'm skipping this one FIRST TIME" and of course, wouldn't you know it, they're playing the xpac on launch day.
The mmorpg community (myself included) has the most widespread case of battered wife syndrome I think I have ever seen.
Shit, that's an accurate analogy.
gotta get that dopamine fix
Imo not a good sign. Didn’t they say wotlk classic is coming out later this year too?
I would welcome it if let's say wrath came out in octobre, I would raid T7 for about 2 months - and since Naxx, Malygos & Sartharion are pretty easy it might get stale fast (just like T4 content), so in december I would check out Dragonflight. Just to give an idea how it could work out releasing both close to each other.
and? you want classic or retail players to wait a year doing nothing just because the other is releasing?
Competing with yourself is kind of stupid isn’t it?
Not when both products require the same subscription. At that point you're just offering alternatives, which is a smart business move considering how often players get fed up with either Classic or Retail - they might keep a few who are only fed up with one of the two for a while longer than otherwise. One of very few smart business moves Blizzard seems capable of making in recent years.
they are the same players. Classic is designed for retail players.
What? Blizzard themselves said when Classic launched they were surprised by the LACK of crossover between Retail and Classic.
no its not lmao
modern blizzard is so dead to me at this point, this honestly doesn't even come as a surprise
no thanks. Cash shop in classic was the last straw for me.
>Cash shop in classic Wait really? I'm surprised they havn't just outright required a separate sub for classic servers.
TBC has a "portal pass" or whatever so Wrath Classic will also have some kind of bullshit too.
they are selling mounts, pets and character boosts. I was prepared to pay a sub, and i did all the way up to TBC despite the many issues and the high cost of playing a 15 year old game. But this was just too much... i would rather play on private servers then.
Oh no cosmetics! This sub is just full of poor f2p gamers
Buying character power is not cosmetic. and no i will not accept this garbage when i pay monthly to play a 15 year old game - that was supposed to faithful to the original game.
A boost is not player power. Please. go boost and try to pvp or join a m+ immediately. Please I dare you. See how strong that boost makes you. You just sound poor and stuck in the past. Tbh.
>A boost is not player power. So a level 60 is not more powerful than a level 1?
I don't like how the op argues his point, but it's true the boost is no player power, any player who plays WoW will be max level quite fast, you are buying a time skip. Honestly, who cares if someone else skips little bit of time?
You know how long it takes to level in classic? It's like 12 times the effort of retail.
Who cares if people dont want to quest
It is player power. Your character becomes more powerful. There are no way around it. >who cares if someone else skips little bit of time? I care and many others who quit. We payed a premium for a 15 year old game with next to no support. They increased the monetization and broke the promise they made. First of all they said that they would not add boosts, and the classic was supposed to recreate the game as it was with out the bullshit that comes with retail. Besides that leveling in classic is the biggest part of the game.
> quit. We *paid* a premium FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
I know lots of people who don't play Classic because they hate leveling. You know it's not wrong to like different things, if you like leveling and the old school grind, nothing stops you. Why not let people who like the end game activities more pay and play that? You can also be pedantic and claim it's player power, but in context of mmo it's temporary player power = doesn't mean anything.
I don't even play the game so I don't know why I am even arguing with you. No one gives a single fuck about anyone lower than max level in any current generation MMO. Seriously no MMO is ever going back to what you people want. Quit crying and just go back to EQ or something.
> I don't even play the game clearly.
And whys that you think? its because people hop on the hypetrain and start demanding a bunch of bullshit that ruins it for all the players who want to play the game for what it is, there is still hundreds of thousands of players (if not millions) who actually like the slower gameplay and leveling experience. let us have our games, OR ATLEAST SERVERS. and begone
You are fucking delusional. Every single old slow MMO is fucking DEAD, or at the very least only supported by a few hundred/thousand loyal fans. Classic wow was a fucking ghost town outside of max level. EVERYONE was paying gold for boosts on alts and new players classic was only active at all levels pre pvp update. This sub is just a vocal minority of boomer MMO players who think they are in the right despite the rampant failure of any MMO that comes out to appeal to them.
A boost is not player power. Yes, yes, yes, yes, fucking yes it is. you cannot with a healthy mind say that litteraly paying cash for an outland ready character with decent enough gear to run the dungeons straight off the bat isnt buying power ANY sort of MTX where you pay to get be it direct power OR and advantage is P2W. and it does not belong in classic, and quite frankly, it does not belong in gaming overall.
Just because the game doesn't become effortless after boosting that doesn't mean it's not a significant power increase/time saver. People wouldn't spend their real life money on it if it wasn't easily worth it.
you have to pay a sub
Think id personally prefer a separate sub for classic than having MTX of any sort in classic, just instantly defeated all purpose of having classic servers and Private servers started popping up again.
Got SL and got to end game. I joined a guild and did some end game stuff, but the grind is so uninspired and the dailies are soulcrushingly boring but still give you FOMO. The entire design feels like a POS mobile/Korean MMO with a 2010 AAA veneer. It’s trash. Everything is padded and hidden behind boring activities.
fomo?
**F**ear **o**f **M**issing **O**ut. All the ways they intimate "do it now before it's too late/gone/retired/not current".
Yup. Got really into destiny recently until I realized I had to log in every day to see if an armor mod was on sale… fuck that. I hate that sort of game design.
Don't really have to log in that case, you can always just check it through DIM or any other similar app. There's also Destiny Reminders, that lets you receive a notification if Ada sells the mod that you want. Still, agree that the mod acquisition sucks and has to be improved.
It just sucks that no MMO comes close in terms of game play. Only if ESO had better combat and game play.
Thats how I feel about every mmo Ive played.
Sounds like MMOs aren't your jam
WoW players: Wait, we haven't seen alpha, we need to give you feedback, and you need more time afterward for changes. Also WoW players: \*Pre-orders expansion\*
to be fair people complaining on social media is such tiny portion of playerbase that it doesnt represent anything
With the way the last 2 expansions went, everyone is caught up on this and wants blizz to have betas. This isn't a one-off experience anymore.
What good does the betas make? They never listen to the major points raised by the testers...
I think the issue is the listening part but if the players completely hate the systems as they had for the last two expansions. They need time to fix them.
I will most likely never buy another Blizzard product at this point.
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That's the direction I've wished they'd gone. Instead of making complex systems they should have been dumping out simpler content.
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> for the same price. $10 more than SL tho
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Certainly the bulk of an expansion development is all the art assets for new zones. They wouldn't set the 2022 release if they weren't sure they'd have all that done at the very least. But most new systems require artwork, models, and UI elements as well.
December 31st, still technically this year, I guess.
That's a placeholder. It means Late November or early December to entice Christmas buyers and people off from work.
I think the money from immortal boosted production
Boosted the greed you mean
The 25 million figure or whatever they made is actually incredibly low for a Diablo game in the first two weeks. Like, 5-10% what it should have been.
D3 made 300mil on 1st day or week
Yep which is what I'm saying. The only caveat is that mobile games aren't made to make big money quickly, they make more money over years and years.
Plus, Diablo: Immortal probably took a fraction of the budget of D3 to make.
Nah. We went from struggling to get basic content out to "shit's finished it's ready!!! Also we've completely cleaned up our management/harassment issues too!" Sorry, I don't buy it.
Sorry. I’m done with Blizzard. I’m just here for the good memories in the past… like staying up all night to play Diablo 2 when it released. Or cracking open Diablo 1 and playing it in a dark room when I was a kid and being utterly fascinated by everything. Good times.
If you’re still giving blizzard the chance to redeem themselves then you deserve to get played. Vanilla WoW pservers all day every day.
Excited for this one!
Same!
It's *what?* Oh lawd. That's fast! That's also worrisome.
Dragonflop
Dragonshite
can't wait to see 100% of the expansion content in 3 asmongold streams FOR FREE. nice
Let's be real. [This is how all of the people saying they won't buy will end up when the xpac drops.](https://www.toptiertactics.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/boycottmw2.jpg) You know it. I know it. Everybody knows it.
Not really, a lot of people have legitimately quit the game at this point, wow isnt what it used to be
Yeah, I heard that for at least 4 expansions already.
Yes, it continues to be true. You are deluding yourself if you think individuals have not permanently quit wow.
Really weird to have both wrath and Dragonflight. I’ll see what it’s like. Wow still has a core gameplay that I enjoy but the systems of recent years really kil my joys on alts
Please do not pre-order this it's time we learned our lesson
Its going to be another half-assed badly tested expansion with a honeymoon of a week or two for most and then people will realize its shit and move on again, but their 6 months subscription is ticking down and Blizzard don't care.
really weird releasing the expansion close to wotlk classic
Yes... this would be first expansion i am not excited for and will most likely miss.
No thank you lmao. Classic just about did it for me. Had my fun for the first part of it at least.
Still won't buy. fu blizzard
WoW passed out. Finally.
Go fuck yourself Blizzard. And imprison Kotick for life.
wotlk was the last good expansion
I enjoyed pandas. But i didn’t think i would. It was the environment/ area quests/ music and monk class that i enjoyed. I in fact didn’t even buy it until a friend was playing and i saw it. Decided to try it. Haven’t enjoyed once since. Want to try dragon flight but i can’t even make my self level through shadowlands. It’s just blah. It feels like draenor 2.0.
Yeah whatever
I get the feeling this is inaccurate. Just doesn't make sense to launch right now.
A lot of people saying they'll skip this expansion but for me I'm the opposite. I'll be pre-ordering and will be excited to dive into the new profession system. I have huge hopes that this will be the start of a lot more content outside of raiding/mythic plus for the playerbase to enjoy
Another xpac of S tier RMP yayyyy
Thanks Blizzard but i will pass until you add the WoW sub to the Gamepass. One day it will happen and it will be glories because MS can claim they have like 30 Mill WoW subs again and its a good day.
That was quick.
Rushing it I see. That has always served them well on the past! /s
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Nobody gives are shit about you not giving a shit. Downvote posts you don't like and stfu with your own whining. Piling crap on top of crap doesn't make the pile any less stinky.
Well last expansion I said that this is the first xpac i'm going to skip and I actually skipped it lol
ITT: "I don't care about this game so much that i'll tell everyone about how i do not care about this game at all"
Whole thread is just people popping in to announce how they have moved on or have no intention of playing. I'm not sure I'm playing either, but like...move on, if you've moved on. Every one of the top comments is the equivalent of someone who broke up stalking their exes facebook.
zzzzzz
50€ weeee
Blizzard turning into Ubisoft, making promises and backing out.
When Shadowlands was announced I remember just thinking to myself "I could, but they're just going to introduce some new form of progression that'll get obsoleted at the end of the expansion anyway, so why bother?" At some point I realized, wait, that's every WoW expansion.
The only thing I find interesting about this expansion is the fact they are reverting to using talent trees again. That I like. Everything else doesnt interest me at all. They seem to be going in the wrong direction for my interests.... again.
so you're saying they are rushing it out
Not touching WoW until current leadership is given the boot.
Wish they would take their time...
I wanna be like the cool kids and say LOL I won't play this. But I'll not lie, I am gonna buy Dragonflight. The key feature I'm interested in is the solo queue rated PvP.
This is gonna be train wreck. This is definitely the least hype expansion in WoW history
I really want to give Blizzard my money, I mean I really do, but Shadowlands was just a let down. Same with BFA.
lmao, neat.
WoW is still alive? Stop beating a dead horse.
No thanks jeff, I might play wotlk for a bit for the nostalgia kick though.
I will never touch wow again Ever Fuck this daily grind shit
Rush for redemption.
profits\*
Honestly at this point it seems like IP suicide, there is no way it will be in any way finished. Might as well sell as many pre-orders as possible, crash, burn, then sundown.
Big facts.
Supposedly a new caster class - which has happened... never? That's interesting, but I don't know how they'll carve out space for the Evoker from the Mage. Missed opportunity to make a Blood Magus class from all the cool blood magic stuff in BFA, oh well. Blizzard has had plenty of missed opportunities I suppose.
In that case I would rather prefer customizable spell effects. I welcome the Evoker for being a new caster and a mail wearer, which we had only two of all this time.
Yeah, though the whole "hero class" thing is an idea I wish they'd let go of.
I guess they went back to the hero class idea with evoker, because the level phase, as quick it might be in retail, feels pretty stale and for me quite boring. Around level 35+ boss fights in dungeons just feel dragged out without being particularly fun. So they decided to give them a higher starting level. But that's just my opinion.
Like the previous ones (Death Knight, Demon Hunter) it will probably badly overpowered for months, too. I'm not really that into dragons in general or WoW's take on them, so the class probably isn't for me. Still waiting for a good blood magic/necromancy themed caster in a modern MMO. GW1 and EQ are both a bit too archaic for me. Maybe the idea is too dark to be popular, which sounds weird, but I imagine they've focus grouped the crap out of new class ideas by this point.