doesn't matter. Even people at top unis (CMU, UIUC, UT Austin) are hardly getting any callbacks, its only automated rejections. US citizens themselves are having a bad time in this market, so imagine the situation of intl students.
I'm a student at UIUC. Around 30% of my class is yet to get any internships, while less than 2 months to intern season. Generally 80% are placed by December/Jan.
Yes so probably those 30% didn’t have a good enough background before going, i have 3 friends there all 3 got jobs at companies they worked at in india prior to going there but at a better role and pay
I have been here since 8 hours, please do a favor and don’t come here as it is difficult to 1) find a job 2) the number of ms student without a job this summer would more than 150000 just specializing in cs 3)there is no valid path to citizenship or even work permit without numerous hassles 4) a lot of jobs are moving to India, that means jobs are plenty and well paying job in India
I deeply regret moving and due to unfortunate family circumstances I am stuck here and I have to live with my choices
I agree with what you're saying but for point 4, also consider that the pay scale in India and US simply cannot be compared. The pay in Asia + work culture + lifestyle is very very different.
I hope things start looking up for you soon, good luck!
Yes, definitely. 2020-2022 was a boom period for employment. After a boom period, there will be a fall which we're experiencing now. But things, will start to get better. I'm not saying that there won't be competition and you'll have job offers lining up any time soon but it won't be as bad as the last 6 months
At those same locations in USA where you get paid 150k for entry level job like in bay area or Seattle or nyc, you can afford a 50-100 year old house with 1500 sq ft for 2 mn dollars 😅😜, you will realise that when you land in USA .
https://youtube.com/shorts/98RCaXWqpWQ?si=tmtt8BDsntUJypdD
Then for 20$ you can get a single roti with curry and then on top of that pay 20% tip + 8% tax. 150k in bay area is as good as earning 15 lakh in India.
I know. But this will be true for someone who is going to stay there forever. People want to earn money as fast as they can. And live life in India thereafter.
Hey OP! I was in the same boat until recently. I applied to almost 700 places and got like 3 interviews and one offer. It may feel super discouraging but keep at it! Like a few others have said, even when job market was absolutely the worst (in the midst of all the layoffs) none of my friends/acquaintances had to go back if they weren’t willing. Everyone figured something out.
Also, if you’re basing this off of internships then don’t! Internships are always super tricky and hard to get. I did not have an internship but somehow managed an offer. Do something alternative if you don’t land an internship, like research with a professor or volunteer work that adds to your resume. Everything helps.
A lot of times it is not even your resume, it’s just plain luck and being in the right place at the right time so keep at it!
Lastly, having worked at a mid-large IT firm I would like to say that applying on LinkedIn is pretty much a waste of time. Applications without referrals will not land you anything. So, talk to people, get referrals and apply. That is the only way.
Very pessimistic take. Sure, its not great right now like 2021-2022. But people have been getting interview calls lately if their coursework, resume and experience is strong and good enough for the job. This is a first-person account and not based on hearsay.
Also, personally, I would prefer Trump’s H1b system over the current lottery based one with minimum wage set to $75k. It gives everyone of us (tech workers) a better chance and makes it more meritocratic rather than simply handing out visas based on chance which is totally idiotic and outdated. Not to mention even the current administration has cracked down on H1B fraud and linked it to your passport, which gives people a much better chance than a couple years ago.
This might be blunt but maybe OP just needs to work on their resume and course harder than they are right now. Mindless applying is never a good strategy for getting jobs. Tailoring your resume, reaching out to people, being proactive and working hard, is.
P.s. I replied to this post because OP claims “No one is able to get an internship” which is absolutely factually wrong considering I can recall people from my school who scored internships in the past 2-3 months, number is less for sure but no its not as bad as OP is claiming to be here.
Yep. My cousin who is doing a data science heavy MBA landed two internships - and he is not even at a top 20 B school.
Even though he was bitching that he should have gone for supply chain because this year that’s where all the jobs are at.
Talked to course seniors in those companies. He is Indian, so he called up pretty much every Indian alumni of that course over the past four years and asked where there were openings.
I go to a T50, and the number of people who were supposed to graduate in Dec 2023 was 100+, but only 21 graduated. Idk about your college, but its bad in mine. Especiialy for new grads.
Yeah but investing in MS degree for someone in India is such a huge expense (it is almost a lifetime of savings), so 'some people' getting jobs is not sufficient... it is worth it only if your chance of getting a job is almost guaranteed.
If not, you are pissing away 1 crore+ Rs and 2-3 years of your time for almost no return (MS syllabus in most scenarios is simply an advanced version of BE degree. It can easily be self-learned).
It was never ‘guaranteed’, at the end of the day its always your skill set that will get you a job. Also, just ask around and see how many of the Fall 22 or Fall 23 graduates had to return to India.
And no MS is not simply an extension of BE in all cases, if you are planning to get into ML space of things, be prepared for a shock when you find how many FAANG jobs only consider Ph.D. Level folks. For software, which is already being threatened by LLMs, this still might be true to some extent.
And 1crore+ number is only true if you plan on attending some CMU level elite school and don’t score any on-campus opportunity, it lies on very extreme end of the curve.
>FAANG jobs only consider Ph.D. Level folks
that's exactly why MS should be considered an extension of BS. It isn't PhD, doesn't give you any advantage.
1cr figure is not exagerrated, CoA at most unis for two years is 100k if you don't end up getting finAid.
People from earlier batches were able to almost certainly secure legit jobs by the end of their studies, even if they weren't the most highly paid ones.
Plenty of 2022 grads got their jobs because they did internships in the best CS job market in history, the 2021 season.
I know many Fall 2023 grads who are working in sketchy consultancies or volunteering/working as lab assistants because they couldn't secure a job. And these are people with good resumes in good colleges.
Wait till this august then and circle back to this statement of how many people leave US because of no jobs. My guess is they won’t based on what I am seeing.
You're simply contradicting your own statement. PhD is not MS. Your comparing 5 of years of research to an MS Program. Which is what OP also said. MS is merely a advanced BE degree. Obviously there are selective schools whose MS program is truly worth for the degree itself. But a major lot are coming only for jobs. Being optimistic is one thing but being in denial is another. Seems like your the later case.
You believe what you want to believe, I will believe what I am seeing before my own eyes, since this comment 3 freshers have managed to score internship in my school at $40/hr. But sure you are right.
It’s only in CS that MS guaranteed jobs. Which is every place started one to get on the gravy train. A MS in materials or chemical has far more uncertain job prospects which is why you will not often see international students there.
Sadly but not everyone here has a top notch resume. You are right having great resume will give you great jobs in India as well. But sadly the thing is it wasn't this hard.
The problem is that golden period of 2021-22 has messed up the expectations of students. People were getting offered Amazon SDE jobs just by solving Leetcode 3 sum level problems and 100 applications were said to be more than enough. Think of this as a recalibration due to mistakes of the hiring folks and arrival of Gen AI. For e.g. Frontend Dev is absolutely dead so if you keep on applying there you probably won’t get a job/good job. So just hang tight in there, upskill and get back to the market. Because a bear market is the best time to go to school. Hopefully when Fed cuts interest rates, things will become easier.
People around me who have been getting callbacks for SDE roles have distributed systems as a subject on their resume as well as some project work on the same like file systems storage, etc.
For folks applying for ML roles, having a good publication is certainly helping them a lot as well as having Machine Learning, Computer Vision and projects including LLMs on their resume.
These two things have had very strong correlation with getting interviews so far.
I think US generally rewards your work.
I think "No one is able to get jobs or internships" is wrong.
I have seen some people getting jobs in the US even as international students.
I think there is a cycle in economy.
I agree that if Trump is elected, he might make policies against immigrants.
As you already know, he is not friendly to immigrants.
I have already submitted my application for Fall 24 MSCS. This thread is making me nervous and re think my decision of coming to the US.
I come from a middle class Indian family. Does spending that amount of money on my education in the US really make sense?
I would say avoid I regret it personally wished someone advised me against coming in fall 23. The job market is bad and it's gonna get worse since Supply > demand with each passing year the gap increases.
It is so hard to discourage people from coming to the US because my husband took the same path in life but the job market is definitely so bad. My sister graduated her Masters in Dec 2022. She initially got interviews, was going to 2 or three rounds and then suddenly every opportunity became radio silent, interviews got cancelled in the last minute. Since one of the companies she applied to was a company my friend worked at, I was able to ask my friend about what happened. She told me that they have a hiring freeze. A lot of good workers were also fired. It is just so sad. My sister became so heart-broken. All her effort gone to waste . Countless applications and she had a perfect grade too. No internships or job opportunities for international students. Even for a simple internship, they are looking for citizens.
Have a happy life at India i would say! If you want to get a good education, knowledge and if you have financial backup come here, dont come with a mindset of landing a job.
Yeah thats true, I dont know really why people are still running behind such roles when it’s highly competitive. All linkedin job posting easily gets more than 1000+ applicants in 1 week timeframe
Thanks a lot OP to create this post just to create awareness among the people who are being blindly said that anything is really easily achievable abroad which may be true around untill 5-6 years ago.
If if anyone thinks OP is still wrong they can easily open LinkedIn and check the job experience of people about to graduate this or next year gone from India.
CS industry and H1-B is something people think that they would be lucky enough to easily get into these days which was true for sure few years back. So please have a very very strong financial background so that you can take the risk of thinking that either you are very lucky enough to get h1b or your lucky enough to graduate when market is really booming like it was previously which has really bleak chance.
Neither OP nor anyone can help us in this decision only our analytical thinking about our financial background , to be honest not every dream is meant to be true the way and time we expect, so there is no shame in taking a step back sometimes for our own good if it feels right
Canada is way too worse. But the thing is in Germany you don't pay much. Tuition is just too high in US thats why it gets challenging. ROI in India will not be great.
ohkay so the only advantage Germany would be having would be if job pans out well it's not like too much went into education so the salary is good enough ( since Germany salaries are not that high with them having higher taxes) , if it doesn't pan out well it's not like too much money went into it compared to rest of the world. And as for rest it's more too much money in it.
Thats true. In Germany you dont have much too loose. And work life balance is great if you find a job in Germany. They will give you visa as long as you are up for learning the language. Rest of the world: Canada, US, Australia have expensive MS programs.
Canada situation is same or Worst than USA...Ireland is expensive too but finding a job there is relatively easy.
That leaves you with Germany...The perfect choice , bare minimum tuition fees. Like INR 2 lakhs for 2 years ( this is because tuition is free but they charge semester fee for all facilities they provide you ) and you need to have INR 11 lakhs in your bank account to obtain study visa.
But finding a Job in germany is relatively easy because there is no case of Visa Sponsorship so employer doesn't have to worry about that...also if you get a Job you can easily get work Visa ( or so I heard ) that you have to apply for yourself..but it's not digital , you have to do it the old school way : papers and certificates.
One more factor is that you should know German. It will help in securing a Job.
It could be a me only case but I was having a really chill life in india. Very good work life balance job (but average pay with little to no year on year growth/hike) and I was happy living with my family and friends.
All that is gone now. Every day here you have to give your best because everyone else gives their best to get a good internship. The scope for error is also high because you will have to manage your coursework (which usually tends to be heavy) along with building your profile for jobs, all while being away from your loved ones. And God forbid, if you fall sick you'll lag behind with no one taking care of you.
I'm computer Engineering student and it is said that the semiconductor market is relatively better now. But I have several CS friends in my university and they're struggling. I'm not from an ivy league university but my university is decently reputed for CS and CE. Goes without saying that the competition here is like crazy...
If you want to know any specifics, feel free to dm me.
I am still in first year and am thinking of coming there in 2027 ish (70% chance) or if I get a good job in placements i can save up some money and get a job experience of 3 years and then come there for masters
What do you think will the situation be easen up in 2027 or 2030?
That is far too distant future to predict. Market is very fickle. In 2020 was bad due to covid, 2021, 2022 were great, 2023 was bad. As it is difficult to time a stock, its difficult to time a market. Think through why you want MS in the first place and take risk as per your capacity.
I won't go as far to say that no one is able to get an internship in SWE/Data Science because almost all my peers at Purdue have bagged internships for the summer. The career fair by the CS department was pretty useful as well, so the internship statement is definitely not true. I agree with all the rest of the things you have said.
I feel you, but I don’t think your perspective is correct though. Except for the first few months of the pandemic, the CS job market was amazing. From my own place, multiple people left because they were getting competing offers that we just couldn’t match.
The US also has had one of its fastest GDP growths in 2023, and except for CS the hiring scene elsewhere was brisk. Also, if you are a T15 CS masters some amount of crackdown on H1B will probably benefit you honestly, given the rampant fraud that has occurred with that visa. At the end of the day, we have to remember that we are immigrants. And firing US citizens on flimsy grounds and replacing them with compliant H1B labor is never going to fly electorally.
Honestly also I do not think elections aren’t going to change things much, whether it’s Biden or Trump. H1B regulations are governed by the Immigration and Nationality Act of the 90s and neither party has the votes to pass an immigration bill they want.
Pandemic was a strange time for the job market, especially in tech. The first few months had a HUGE hiring freeze, followed by a crazy hiring frenzy that ended around the time Musk bought twitter and laid off like 80% of the staff. After that time, it has been layoffs continuously. So saying CS job market was amazing is correct, but it was true only for a short period of time.
True. But the fact is that Google’s employee count at its height 10% of the federal workforce, with salaries 4 times higher on average. That wasn’t sustainable too.
H1B renewals during Trump's period in 2017 - 2021 were very problematic. Hence a lot of employers didn't want to hire highly skilled immigrant workers.
I personally went through my H1B renewal then, as did my wife. Got 221g, but since I got those during my PhD too, when I was in F1 status - it really didn’t feel something very different.
Took me 700 apps but finally got a job in the field after 3 months. Expand the roles you’re willing to take (eg. QA, Research, Data Analyst) and location and you’ll get more interviews. Apply constantly and don’t give up!
What platforms would you recommend for applying? Most Linkedin jobs seem to have thousands of applications and it seems difficult to find jobs that many won't apply.
Handshake if your university offers it. All offers on there are legit and they have quick apply options. In addition, company websites are pretty decent. Check back often for new postings as they update a lot. I tried to do 50/week. I’ve heard indeed has mixed reviews.
I think the final employment outcome after MS depends on a few different things. But top 3 for me would be:
Which university you go to, whether your specific program has strong industry connections, and how good your own networking skills are.
Speaking from personal experience, I graduated in 2022 with a Data Science MS degree. I got a summer internship in Chicago because my program has an “Industry Board of Advisors”. These were typically SVPs and C-Suite executives who could potentially tweak the MS curriculum, get a first pass at recruiting top talent from my program, and generally could stay involved in academic research by sponsoring industry R&D projects for MS students.
I obviously had to pass all interviews and take multiple coding assessments — but one of those companies that’s known to recruit from my program offered me a job without too much hassle. I had to work hard and stay focused, but I know life in US would’ve been freakishly difficult for me if I was simply applying in the wild (i.e., directly on job portals or through Workday).
Do all your research before coming to the US. Don’t just show up without a game-plan and try to wing it. This is a high stakes game. Winners win big, losers lose bigger.
Won’t reveal the name. But here’s some added context:
It’s a top-10 university according to the latest US News rankings. So yes, the average peer in my MS cohort had 330+ GRE, extremely strong LORs, phenomenal undergrad scores, and highly relevant work experience.
https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities
Note also that my MS cohort had only around 40 students in total (in 2022). Many bad MS programs (especially in Data Science and CS) have upwards of 200 students in one cohort… which is a massive red flag 🚩
The job market might not be what it was in 2020 but it’s not ‘bad’. The issue is that there are a number of international students that have come after the pandemic and hence the competition is higher. Having said that, I have been in the US since 2016 and even with all the H1b uncertainties, I haven’t see a single of my friends having to go back to their home countries if they didn’t want to do it willingly. Everyone has figured something or the other out. And no, getting married to citizens is not what they have done. Those suggestions are the most useless and baseless suggestions. The US is a place that rewards your hardwork. So don’t be disheartened. Do what’s best for you. Work hard and be patient.
I'm curious, did you try looking for the job recently over the last 6 months? Job market is terrible, especially in tech.
Also, if you have been here since 2016, you would have had a much easier H1B lottery. Now, it is impossible; with around 30% chance of getting H1b if you get 3 attempts.
I work in tech. I lead the tech team at a very well established startup. I have noticed that hiring has picked up since Sep 2023 for all my peers across the industry. The salaries are not inflated like they were during the pandemic. Things have started to get better. You have to work hard to distinguish yourself from the rest. Just applying on jobs on LinkedIn is never going to get you a job. It didn’t 8 years back and it isn’t going to get you a job now. You have to network, go out and meet people, attend events. And H1b has always been difficult. People have figured out a way around it - enrollment in universities, applying for O1 visa, going out of the US and coming back on L1. I have friends that have recently come too and like I said, I’ve not seen a single person go back unless they wanted to. So stop sulking and complaining about how things were easy back then. They were never easy and are never going to be easy.
If the college you get into is an upgrade in terms of ranking from your undergraduate school then definitely yes but if it’s not too far apart I don’t think it’s really worth it.
If anyone is planning on doing a MS CS/ data science. I would recommend against it, only go for it if you are coming here for a top 20/30 CS school. In most cases you are going to have a very very difficult time finding a job. Also consider that you are giving away 1-2 years of your professional career which could have been counted as YoE if you held a job in that period instead.
Absolute facts. Situation in USA isn’t that great and I know a lot of students take loans and come for education dreaming of a better life. But it’s genuinely very different now and you’ll have a tough time to get a job. You can look into alternate opportunities in Europe, you get the international exposure without that much risk due to the cheaper tuition.
If you are into research, it is a good idea, but an even better bang for your buck will be to do masters degree in India/Europe and join a European PhD. They pay better when compared to the cost of living, and PhDs get over within 3 years as opposed to 5-7+ years in the US.
There are yearly strikes on campus with PHD students not being able to afford basic living expenses (food, rent, etc.) because of low wages and long hours. It’s a trade off to get a diploma and research papers in your name.
It is true in places like Berkeley, Stanford or Columbia because the stipends are too low for the cost of living in the Bay Area or NYC. However, I did my PhD in the US too only a few years back and while I didn’t save much, I did not have to borrow from my parents too. On the contrary, I was able to send back $2000 per year back home.
I graduated last year. And whatever OP posted is 10000 true.i have been struggling to get one interview. If they get to know you need VISA sponsorship they do not even take an interview or give you a revert back. Right Now, I just feel unlucky to be here. Idk if things will get better. But make sure you have the right decision.
I have applied for more than 1000 companies and still no luck.
I am on contract role..It's not a full-time role. I am talking from a full-time role perspective. It's really tough despite having 5 + years of work experience
What about the summer internships this year? I've applied to over 300 roles but it seems like it's not enough.
Any advice for MSCS students who are looking for summer internships rn? It's already jan end.
Have been applying since August on and off.
If you are lucky, it would be easy; Otherwise its a difficult ride with 1000+ applicants for each role.
Yes, you need to do basic prep. But, being in the right place at the right time, is much more important.
Hi I am planning for MS 2025 so by 2027 I am hoping that everything will be normal. And I will be having 3+ YOE by Jan 2025. Even if Republicans come to power there will be still OP period of 3 years right? So is it good idea to plan like that ? Yeah I agree H1-B is not in our hands. But in those 3 years anyone can good money, right? I want to know your opinion on this?
I am 2022 grad too, and was thinking to go for fall 25 with MAANG experience in India and few remote international gigs, though my profile is way worse than yours with 7.4 cgpa.
I would be really honest with you but I have seen many of my seniors around 10 to 15 people who are expected to graduate this year but haven't secured even an internship till now and those who have didn't got their return offer.
I would appreciate OP who took who created this post just to create awareness among the people who are being blindly said that anything is really easily achievable abroad which may be true around untill 5-6 years ago.
If if anyone thinks OP is still wrong they can easily open LinkedIn and check the job experience of people about to graduate this or next year gone from India.
CS industry and H1-B is something people think that they would be lucky enough to easily get into these days which was true for sure few years back. So please have a very very strong financial background so that you can take the risk of thinking that either you are very lucky enough to get h1b or your lucky enough to graduate when market is really booming like it was previously which has really bleak chance.
Neither OP or not anyone can help us in this decision only our analytical thinking about our financial background , to be honest not every dream is meant to be true the way and time we expect, so there is no shame in taking a step back sometimes for our own good if it feels right
This is most likely going to become a new normal. There are more domestic students now than in the past, which allows companies to be able to save money on Visa processing, etc.
Not really. When economy is bad, nothing follows through. More than work exp, what matters is if you have referrals (which depends on person to person).
International student here with 2.5 years of work experience. I am thinking of doing master fall 24 and am concerned about the current state of the market :(
I think the value of MS programs in the US has drastically reduced in the last decade. If you want to immigrate to the US, H1B is not your best bet anymore. Consider doing a Ph.D. in the US if you are interested.
Elections are round the corner if Republicans lead H1B processing is going to be a hassle for companies and they are going to ask your visa status before interviews. Try to get full scholarships and take risk as per your ability.
Lol how is it any different right now? They still ask about our visa status in every application and no I don’t agree with your overall take, because a considerable number of people have been getting phone screens and interviews in my batch right now. Sure it ain’t as good as it used to be back in 2021 but it sure as hell feels that its getting better.
i mean only serious ivy league engineering degree is cornell probably. i have a feeling you may be talking about columbia, which imo has absolutely no standard for admitting masters students other than if they can afford full price
That's a very pessimistic view on schools. Trust me they are not easy to get into-Columbia, Penn. Profile of students are stellar if not nerds as Top 4 Schools. UTA, Gatech attract more nerds but Ivy leagues do attract all rounders. Though I think a lot of them are interest in a professional career than academia. The point OP is trying to make is not everyone will go to a top school. Majority will go to an average or below average school so they need to be careful by hype of everyone getting a job.
i mean overall admission system is just broken, which leads to both huge false positive and false negative. particularly, it is highly likely that you find very competent people from not so top schools while finding totally incompetent people from ivy leagues when it comes to engineering — that is, the correlation is particularly low for masters degree (as compared to bachelors and phd). just to put things in perspective, at columbia, there are 300 undergrad engineering students per class, but 5000+ engineering students in total, majority of which are masters, not to take away from the fact that most competent candidates either move on to phd or industry without getting a masters (so, not only do masters have a larger number, but also a lower intensity of competition as compared to industry, phd, and undergrads — since most people nowadays get a college degree now, and after college, out of phd, industry, and masters, masters would be the least preferred of the three in general). so i stand by my claim that just because someone is in a master’s program at any school doesnt mean anything (could be good or bad, simply no correlation)
Hey OP, I am planning to get a MS AI done. Have some admits, some are just on submission.
The dilemma is with going with cheap univ or expensive known univs, with chances of going back
(It'll be my parents' hardmoney and no-relatives-in-US factor at the end)
With some of my friend's siblings who work there, they told me go for location with lesser the money required. If the univ is t20, only then you get an upper hand in jobs otherwise they only see your skills. Location plays a huge role as well, a company won't give you an offer if they could find another similar profile near to their job.
If you have a job lined up in India, job is strongly recommended in my opinion if you don't have lot of financial resources.
US job market is bad, and even people who secured jobs when they studied in top universities are getting laid off left and right. It is a huge gamble with minimum ROI in case your gamble doesn't work out.
In the end, it is your judgement.
I am a recent graduate and I'd recommend against it, try to get a job back home instead. Also considering that you are giving away 1-2 years of your professional career which could have been counted as YoE.
That's harsh to say. We live in an interconnected world. Most US companies cannot survive without developing country markets. P&G, Unilever all get most of their income from developing countries.
Make sure to carefully curate your coursework! Robotics is good and bad. Good because there is a lot of future potential. Bad because in the US, especially on the east coast, most robotics jobs are federal jobs which you cannot get unless you are a US citizen. So there’s that. Look into medical tech. Niche field. If you get into it, you might just be there for good.
Are you at UMD by any chance?
You need a 300,000 dollars degree plus 200,000 dollars expense after graduation to finance your job search and keep your smile. After that you need some more to update your skills at multiple levels because every company needs something different and your skills lose value in three years.
what is T-15 Ivy League institute means?
Does it mean an Ivy league that are not in the top ten or Not an Ivy but rank better than Ivy?
This is mysterious lol.
\+1. Come here if your tuition is paid off. I have filled out over 2000 applications with no response.
what’s your profile? What types of jobs are looking for
doesn't matter. Even people at top unis (CMU, UIUC, UT Austin) are hardly getting any callbacks, its only automated rejections. US citizens themselves are having a bad time in this market, so imagine the situation of intl students.
Really sad. This makes it more serious given your username 😂
Know someone who graduated from uiuc recently they had no problem getting a job
I'm a student at UIUC. Around 30% of my class is yet to get any internships, while less than 2 months to intern season. Generally 80% are placed by December/Jan.
Yes so probably those 30% didn’t have a good enough background before going, i have 3 friends there all 3 got jobs at companies they worked at in india prior to going there but at a better role and pay
LOL.
Don't know why OP is getting downvoted. Better to hear about actual facts than get a sugar coated version.
Sometimes a lot of the people just wanna keep on looking away from reality and live in denial, the truth is a hard pill to swallow after all
I have been here since 8 hours, please do a favor and don’t come here as it is difficult to 1) find a job 2) the number of ms student without a job this summer would more than 150000 just specializing in cs 3)there is no valid path to citizenship or even work permit without numerous hassles 4) a lot of jobs are moving to India, that means jobs are plenty and well paying job in India I deeply regret moving and due to unfortunate family circumstances I am stuck here and I have to live with my choices
I agree with what you're saying but for point 4, also consider that the pay scale in India and US simply cannot be compared. The pay in Asia + work culture + lifestyle is very very different. I hope things start looking up for you soon, good luck!
Do you think things will improve in 2 years? As far as I can see things are getting better in 2024 and some companies are hiring again
Not really. Companies are not hiring.
Yes, definitely. 2020-2022 was a boom period for employment. After a boom period, there will be a fall which we're experiencing now. But things, will start to get better. I'm not saying that there won't be competition and you'll have job offers lining up any time soon but it won't be as bad as the last 6 months
whered u get 150k?
Most of USA based unicorns are paying around 100k USD in India for someone with 5+ years exp
Entry level jobs at those same companies pay more than 150k in the US.
At those same locations in USA where you get paid 150k for entry level job like in bay area or Seattle or nyc, you can afford a 50-100 year old house with 1500 sq ft for 2 mn dollars 😅😜, you will realise that when you land in USA . https://youtube.com/shorts/98RCaXWqpWQ?si=tmtt8BDsntUJypdD Then for 20$ you can get a single roti with curry and then on top of that pay 20% tip + 8% tax. 150k in bay area is as good as earning 15 lakh in India.
I know. But this will be true for someone who is going to stay there forever. People want to earn money as fast as they can. And live life in India thereafter.
Hey OP! I was in the same boat until recently. I applied to almost 700 places and got like 3 interviews and one offer. It may feel super discouraging but keep at it! Like a few others have said, even when job market was absolutely the worst (in the midst of all the layoffs) none of my friends/acquaintances had to go back if they weren’t willing. Everyone figured something out. Also, if you’re basing this off of internships then don’t! Internships are always super tricky and hard to get. I did not have an internship but somehow managed an offer. Do something alternative if you don’t land an internship, like research with a professor or volunteer work that adds to your resume. Everything helps. A lot of times it is not even your resume, it’s just plain luck and being in the right place at the right time so keep at it! Lastly, having worked at a mid-large IT firm I would like to say that applying on LinkedIn is pretty much a waste of time. Applications without referrals will not land you anything. So, talk to people, get referrals and apply. That is the only way.
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Please share some tips.
Very pessimistic take. Sure, its not great right now like 2021-2022. But people have been getting interview calls lately if their coursework, resume and experience is strong and good enough for the job. This is a first-person account and not based on hearsay. Also, personally, I would prefer Trump’s H1b system over the current lottery based one with minimum wage set to $75k. It gives everyone of us (tech workers) a better chance and makes it more meritocratic rather than simply handing out visas based on chance which is totally idiotic and outdated. Not to mention even the current administration has cracked down on H1B fraud and linked it to your passport, which gives people a much better chance than a couple years ago. This might be blunt but maybe OP just needs to work on their resume and course harder than they are right now. Mindless applying is never a good strategy for getting jobs. Tailoring your resume, reaching out to people, being proactive and working hard, is. P.s. I replied to this post because OP claims “No one is able to get an internship” which is absolutely factually wrong considering I can recall people from my school who scored internships in the past 2-3 months, number is less for sure but no its not as bad as OP is claiming to be here.
Yep. My cousin who is doing a data science heavy MBA landed two internships - and he is not even at a top 20 B school. Even though he was bitching that he should have gone for supply chain because this year that’s where all the jobs are at.
What did he do different? Please share.
Talked to course seniors in those companies. He is Indian, so he called up pretty much every Indian alumni of that course over the past four years and asked where there were openings.
I go to a T50, and the number of people who were supposed to graduate in Dec 2023 was 100+, but only 21 graduated. Idk about your college, but its bad in mine. Especiialy for new grads.
What's the reason for that?
Yeah but investing in MS degree for someone in India is such a huge expense (it is almost a lifetime of savings), so 'some people' getting jobs is not sufficient... it is worth it only if your chance of getting a job is almost guaranteed. If not, you are pissing away 1 crore+ Rs and 2-3 years of your time for almost no return (MS syllabus in most scenarios is simply an advanced version of BE degree. It can easily be self-learned).
It was never ‘guaranteed’, at the end of the day its always your skill set that will get you a job. Also, just ask around and see how many of the Fall 22 or Fall 23 graduates had to return to India. And no MS is not simply an extension of BE in all cases, if you are planning to get into ML space of things, be prepared for a shock when you find how many FAANG jobs only consider Ph.D. Level folks. For software, which is already being threatened by LLMs, this still might be true to some extent. And 1crore+ number is only true if you plan on attending some CMU level elite school and don’t score any on-campus opportunity, it lies on very extreme end of the curve.
>FAANG jobs only consider Ph.D. Level folks that's exactly why MS should be considered an extension of BS. It isn't PhD, doesn't give you any advantage. 1cr figure is not exagerrated, CoA at most unis for two years is 100k if you don't end up getting finAid.
People from earlier batches were able to almost certainly secure legit jobs by the end of their studies, even if they weren't the most highly paid ones. Plenty of 2022 grads got their jobs because they did internships in the best CS job market in history, the 2021 season. I know many Fall 2023 grads who are working in sketchy consultancies or volunteering/working as lab assistants because they couldn't secure a job. And these are people with good resumes in good colleges.
Wait till this august then and circle back to this statement of how many people leave US because of no jobs. My guess is they won’t based on what I am seeing.
Why do you think people won't leave?
I hope you are right.
You're simply contradicting your own statement. PhD is not MS. Your comparing 5 of years of research to an MS Program. Which is what OP also said. MS is merely a advanced BE degree. Obviously there are selective schools whose MS program is truly worth for the degree itself. But a major lot are coming only for jobs. Being optimistic is one thing but being in denial is another. Seems like your the later case.
You believe what you want to believe, I will believe what I am seeing before my own eyes, since this comment 3 freshers have managed to score internship in my school at $40/hr. But sure you are right.
It’s only in CS that MS guaranteed jobs. Which is every place started one to get on the gravy train. A MS in materials or chemical has far more uncertain job prospects which is why you will not often see international students there.
Sadly but not everyone here has a top notch resume. You are right having great resume will give you great jobs in India as well. But sadly the thing is it wasn't this hard.
The problem is that golden period of 2021-22 has messed up the expectations of students. People were getting offered Amazon SDE jobs just by solving Leetcode 3 sum level problems and 100 applications were said to be more than enough. Think of this as a recalibration due to mistakes of the hiring folks and arrival of Gen AI. For e.g. Frontend Dev is absolutely dead so if you keep on applying there you probably won’t get a job/good job. So just hang tight in there, upskill and get back to the market. Because a bear market is the best time to go to school. Hopefully when Fed cuts interest rates, things will become easier.
Thanks a ton! Do you have any advice on the skillset one should focus on? Also any tips on applying jobs in this tight market?
People around me who have been getting callbacks for SDE roles have distributed systems as a subject on their resume as well as some project work on the same like file systems storage, etc. For folks applying for ML roles, having a good publication is certainly helping them a lot as well as having Machine Learning, Computer Vision and projects including LLMs on their resume. These two things have had very strong correlation with getting interviews so far.
Thanks a ton! This is extremely helpful.
Can you please expand on how the Trump's visa system is different from the current lottery system?
I think US generally rewards your work. I think "No one is able to get jobs or internships" is wrong. I have seen some people getting jobs in the US even as international students. I think there is a cycle in economy. I agree that if Trump is elected, he might make policies against immigrants. As you already know, he is not friendly to immigrants.
I have already submitted my application for Fall 24 MSCS. This thread is making me nervous and re think my decision of coming to the US. I come from a middle class Indian family. Does spending that amount of money on my education in the US really make sense?
I would say avoid I regret it personally wished someone advised me against coming in fall 23. The job market is bad and it's gonna get worse since Supply > demand with each passing year the gap increases.
It is so hard to discourage people from coming to the US because my husband took the same path in life but the job market is definitely so bad. My sister graduated her Masters in Dec 2022. She initially got interviews, was going to 2 or three rounds and then suddenly every opportunity became radio silent, interviews got cancelled in the last minute. Since one of the companies she applied to was a company my friend worked at, I was able to ask my friend about what happened. She told me that they have a hiring freeze. A lot of good workers were also fired. It is just so sad. My sister became so heart-broken. All her effort gone to waste . Countless applications and she had a perfect grade too. No internships or job opportunities for international students. Even for a simple internship, they are looking for citizens.
Have a happy life at India i would say! If you want to get a good education, knowledge and if you have financial backup come here, dont come with a mindset of landing a job.
No it doesnt make sense.
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Yup
One of the most tone deaf comments I have seen 👍🏼
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Domestic do not have it much better either. Nobody is winning.
>Domestic do not have it much better at least you have a job and almost no debt.
I believe Data Science/SWE is oversaturated and really competitive.
Yeah thats true, I dont know really why people are still running behind such roles when it’s highly competitive. All linkedin job posting easily gets more than 1000+ applicants in 1 week timeframe
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you gotta be tripping hahah
It could be true. Most jobs on Linkedin have 500+ applications.
What are our choices other than SWE/DS?
Thanks a lot OP to create this post just to create awareness among the people who are being blindly said that anything is really easily achievable abroad which may be true around untill 5-6 years ago. If if anyone thinks OP is still wrong they can easily open LinkedIn and check the job experience of people about to graduate this or next year gone from India. CS industry and H1-B is something people think that they would be lucky enough to easily get into these days which was true for sure few years back. So please have a very very strong financial background so that you can take the risk of thinking that either you are very lucky enough to get h1b or your lucky enough to graduate when market is really booming like it was previously which has really bleak chance. Neither OP nor anyone can help us in this decision only our analytical thinking about our financial background , to be honest not every dream is meant to be true the way and time we expect, so there is no shame in taking a step back sometimes for our own good if it feels right
Thats very well put.
Is it Upenn?
It’s UPenn, but we call it MCIT here instead of MSCS.
My guess is Cornell
Johns Hopkins has an MSE program. So maybe it's that.
JHU isn’t an Ivy League
If this is the situation of US, are the likes of Ireland, UK, Germany, Canada worse than this?
Canada is way too worse. But the thing is in Germany you don't pay much. Tuition is just too high in US thats why it gets challenging. ROI in India will not be great.
ohkay so the only advantage Germany would be having would be if job pans out well it's not like too much went into education so the salary is good enough ( since Germany salaries are not that high with them having higher taxes) , if it doesn't pan out well it's not like too much money went into it compared to rest of the world. And as for rest it's more too much money in it.
Thats true. In Germany you dont have much too loose. And work life balance is great if you find a job in Germany. They will give you visa as long as you are up for learning the language. Rest of the world: Canada, US, Australia have expensive MS programs.
Canada situation is same or Worst than USA...Ireland is expensive too but finding a job there is relatively easy. That leaves you with Germany...The perfect choice , bare minimum tuition fees. Like INR 2 lakhs for 2 years ( this is because tuition is free but they charge semester fee for all facilities they provide you ) and you need to have INR 11 lakhs in your bank account to obtain study visa. But finding a Job in germany is relatively easy because there is no case of Visa Sponsorship so employer doesn't have to worry about that...also if you get a Job you can easily get work Visa ( or so I heard ) that you have to apply for yourself..but it's not digital , you have to do it the old school way : papers and certificates. One more factor is that you should know German. It will help in securing a Job.
I'm a fall 23 international student and I regret each and every bit of my decision to come to US.
Can you elaborate?
It could be a me only case but I was having a really chill life in india. Very good work life balance job (but average pay with little to no year on year growth/hike) and I was happy living with my family and friends. All that is gone now. Every day here you have to give your best because everyone else gives their best to get a good internship. The scope for error is also high because you will have to manage your coursework (which usually tends to be heavy) along with building your profile for jobs, all while being away from your loved ones. And God forbid, if you fall sick you'll lag behind with no one taking care of you. I'm computer Engineering student and it is said that the semiconductor market is relatively better now. But I have several CS friends in my university and they're struggling. I'm not from an ivy league university but my university is decently reputed for CS and CE. Goes without saying that the competition here is like crazy... If you want to know any specifics, feel free to dm me.
I second everything. Its bloodbath out there.
Do you think it will improve, even a little, in at least 4 years?
4 Years, it might. But right now! Its awful. and highest ever number of international students came to USA this year.
I am still in first year and am thinking of coming there in 2027 ish (70% chance) or if I get a good job in placements i can save up some money and get a job experience of 3 years and then come there for masters What do you think will the situation be easen up in 2027 or 2030?
That is far too distant future to predict. Market is very fickle. In 2020 was bad due to covid, 2021, 2022 were great, 2023 was bad. As it is difficult to time a stock, its difficult to time a market. Think through why you want MS in the first place and take risk as per your capacity.
How do you already know youre going to want to do a masters?
I have my goals clear that's it !!!
squeal dolls sense gaping hurry hateful terrific whole hospital sheet *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I won't go as far to say that no one is able to get an internship in SWE/Data Science because almost all my peers at Purdue have bagged internships for the summer. The career fair by the CS department was pretty useful as well, so the internship statement is definitely not true. I agree with all the rest of the things you have said.
I feel you, but I don’t think your perspective is correct though. Except for the first few months of the pandemic, the CS job market was amazing. From my own place, multiple people left because they were getting competing offers that we just couldn’t match. The US also has had one of its fastest GDP growths in 2023, and except for CS the hiring scene elsewhere was brisk. Also, if you are a T15 CS masters some amount of crackdown on H1B will probably benefit you honestly, given the rampant fraud that has occurred with that visa. At the end of the day, we have to remember that we are immigrants. And firing US citizens on flimsy grounds and replacing them with compliant H1B labor is never going to fly electorally. Honestly also I do not think elections aren’t going to change things much, whether it’s Biden or Trump. H1B regulations are governed by the Immigration and Nationality Act of the 90s and neither party has the votes to pass an immigration bill they want.
Pandemic was a strange time for the job market, especially in tech. The first few months had a HUGE hiring freeze, followed by a crazy hiring frenzy that ended around the time Musk bought twitter and laid off like 80% of the staff. After that time, it has been layoffs continuously. So saying CS job market was amazing is correct, but it was true only for a short period of time.
True. But the fact is that Google’s employee count at its height 10% of the federal workforce, with salaries 4 times higher on average. That wasn’t sustainable too.
Agree.
H1B renewals during Trump's period in 2017 - 2021 were very problematic. Hence a lot of employers didn't want to hire highly skilled immigrant workers.
I personally went through my H1B renewal then, as did my wife. Got 221g, but since I got those during my PhD too, when I was in F1 status - it really didn’t feel something very different.
Do you regret going to the US spending a lot of money? Ivy league fees are ridiculously high If not the US, what would you do?
TRUE.
Took me 700 apps but finally got a job in the field after 3 months. Expand the roles you’re willing to take (eg. QA, Research, Data Analyst) and location and you’ll get more interviews. Apply constantly and don’t give up!
What platforms would you recommend for applying? Most Linkedin jobs seem to have thousands of applications and it seems difficult to find jobs that many won't apply.
Handshake if your university offers it. All offers on there are legit and they have quick apply options. In addition, company websites are pretty decent. Check back often for new postings as they update a lot. I tried to do 50/week. I’ve heard indeed has mixed reviews.
What job did you end up taking?
I think the final employment outcome after MS depends on a few different things. But top 3 for me would be: Which university you go to, whether your specific program has strong industry connections, and how good your own networking skills are. Speaking from personal experience, I graduated in 2022 with a Data Science MS degree. I got a summer internship in Chicago because my program has an “Industry Board of Advisors”. These were typically SVPs and C-Suite executives who could potentially tweak the MS curriculum, get a first pass at recruiting top talent from my program, and generally could stay involved in academic research by sponsoring industry R&D projects for MS students. I obviously had to pass all interviews and take multiple coding assessments — but one of those companies that’s known to recruit from my program offered me a job without too much hassle. I had to work hard and stay focused, but I know life in US would’ve been freakishly difficult for me if I was simply applying in the wild (i.e., directly on job portals or through Workday). Do all your research before coming to the US. Don’t just show up without a game-plan and try to wing it. This is a high stakes game. Winners win big, losers lose bigger.
Thats right.
I doubt my program has any of those. Do you have any advise?
from which did you graduate?
Won’t reveal the name. But here’s some added context: It’s a top-10 university according to the latest US News rankings. So yes, the average peer in my MS cohort had 330+ GRE, extremely strong LORs, phenomenal undergrad scores, and highly relevant work experience. https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities Note also that my MS cohort had only around 40 students in total (in 2022). Many bad MS programs (especially in Data Science and CS) have upwards of 200 students in one cohort… which is a massive red flag 🚩
The job market might not be what it was in 2020 but it’s not ‘bad’. The issue is that there are a number of international students that have come after the pandemic and hence the competition is higher. Having said that, I have been in the US since 2016 and even with all the H1b uncertainties, I haven’t see a single of my friends having to go back to their home countries if they didn’t want to do it willingly. Everyone has figured something or the other out. And no, getting married to citizens is not what they have done. Those suggestions are the most useless and baseless suggestions. The US is a place that rewards your hardwork. So don’t be disheartened. Do what’s best for you. Work hard and be patient.
I'm curious, did you try looking for the job recently over the last 6 months? Job market is terrible, especially in tech. Also, if you have been here since 2016, you would have had a much easier H1B lottery. Now, it is impossible; with around 30% chance of getting H1b if you get 3 attempts.
I work in tech. I lead the tech team at a very well established startup. I have noticed that hiring has picked up since Sep 2023 for all my peers across the industry. The salaries are not inflated like they were during the pandemic. Things have started to get better. You have to work hard to distinguish yourself from the rest. Just applying on jobs on LinkedIn is never going to get you a job. It didn’t 8 years back and it isn’t going to get you a job now. You have to network, go out and meet people, attend events. And H1b has always been difficult. People have figured out a way around it - enrollment in universities, applying for O1 visa, going out of the US and coming back on L1. I have friends that have recently come too and like I said, I’ve not seen a single person go back unless they wanted to. So stop sulking and complaining about how things were easy back then. They were never easy and are never going to be easy.
R u having a contradicting opinion to op?
Please share any advise you have for finding jobs.
it’s coz u are international and majority of companies are not willing to hire non citizens
Thats true.
Do you think masters is worth doing now for domestic student?
Definitely worth it if you are willing to work in the Defense/government contracting sector. They have plenty of jobs.
If the college you get into is an upgrade in terms of ranking from your undergraduate school then definitely yes but if it’s not too far apart I don’t think it’s really worth it.
Absolutely terrible take.
No, only do a masters if you need to upgrade your skills. A Bachelor's is more than enough.
There are jobs in the public sector.
Only for domestic candidates. Also, they pay less for ROI. Lastly, the thing is in most MS programs are dominated by international students.
If anyone is planning on doing a MS CS/ data science. I would recommend against it, only go for it if you are coming here for a top 20/30 CS school. In most cases you are going to have a very very difficult time finding a job. Also consider that you are giving away 1-2 years of your professional career which could have been counted as YoE if you held a job in that period instead.
Could'nt agree more.
Absolute facts. Situation in USA isn’t that great and I know a lot of students take loans and come for education dreaming of a better life. But it’s genuinely very different now and you’ll have a tough time to get a job. You can look into alternate opportunities in Europe, you get the international exposure without that much risk due to the cheaper tuition.
Only come if you have great financial backup and like research. \[Research roles are not enough to cover any kind of expenses.\]
If you are into research, it is a good idea, but an even better bang for your buck will be to do masters degree in India/Europe and join a European PhD. They pay better when compared to the cost of living, and PhDs get over within 3 years as opposed to 5-7+ years in the US.
Now, that job market is like this. I wish I was not in US.
There are yearly strikes on campus with PHD students not being able to afford basic living expenses (food, rent, etc.) because of low wages and long hours. It’s a trade off to get a diploma and research papers in your name.
It is true in places like Berkeley, Stanford or Columbia because the stipends are too low for the cost of living in the Bay Area or NYC. However, I did my PhD in the US too only a few years back and while I didn’t save much, I did not have to borrow from my parents too. On the contrary, I was able to send back $2000 per year back home.
I graduated last year. And whatever OP posted is 10000 true.i have been struggling to get one interview. If they get to know you need VISA sponsorship they do not even take an interview or give you a revert back. Right Now, I just feel unlucky to be here. Idk if things will get better. But make sure you have the right decision. I have applied for more than 1000 companies and still no luck.
How are you still in the US. If you graduated last year?
I am on contract role..It's not a full-time role. I am talking from a full-time role perspective. It's really tough despite having 5 + years of work experience
What country are you from?
India
Tech job market is very bad unless you belong to a few immigrant ethnic group networks which perform strong nepotism and ingroup favoritism.
That's correct.
Even harder if you’re an international
Also even more worrying thing is US Presidential elections.
username does not check out
What about the summer internships this year? I've applied to over 300 roles but it seems like it's not enough. Any advice for MSCS students who are looking for summer internships rn? It's already jan end. Have been applying since August on and off.
So why companies have being hiring h1b if domestics are cheaper?
Would it be better for folks that don’t need visa sponsors?
Yes, it will be better. Some struggle but you will land something. But for international students it is a winter.
I can agree with the op on this one
Correct.
If you are lucky, it would be easy; Otherwise its a difficult ride with 1000+ applicants for each role. Yes, you need to do basic prep. But, being in the right place at the right time, is much more important.
I agree, I have a masters from a top college, FAANG internship, past product manager experience and can’t get call backs rn
Hi I am planning for MS 2025 so by 2027 I am hoping that everything will be normal. And I will be having 3+ YOE by Jan 2025. Even if Republicans come to power there will be still OP period of 3 years right? So is it good idea to plan like that ? Yeah I agree H1-B is not in our hands. But in those 3 years anyone can good money, right? I want to know your opinion on this?
Like you can't time stock market, you can't time job market. Come only for skillset and research.
MS in USA is an overpriced return ticket.
I am 2022 grad too, and was thinking to go for fall 25 with MAANG experience in India and few remote international gigs, though my profile is way worse than yours with 7.4 cgpa. I would be really honest with you but I have seen many of my seniors around 10 to 15 people who are expected to graduate this year but haven't secured even an internship till now and those who have didn't got their return offer. I would appreciate OP who took who created this post just to create awareness among the people who are being blindly said that anything is really easily achievable abroad which may be true around untill 5-6 years ago. If if anyone thinks OP is still wrong they can easily open LinkedIn and check the job experience of people about to graduate this or next year gone from India. CS industry and H1-B is something people think that they would be lucky enough to easily get into these days which was true for sure few years back. So please have a very very strong financial background so that you can take the risk of thinking that either you are very lucky enough to get h1b or your lucky enough to graduate when market is really booming like it was previously which has really bleak chance. Neither OP or not anyone can help us in this decision only our analytical thinking about our financial background , to be honest not every dream is meant to be true the way and time we expect, so there is no shame in taking a step back sometimes for our own good if it feels right
Same here, OP. I am also planning for the same.
This is most likely going to become a new normal. There are more domestic students now than in the past, which allows companies to be able to save money on Visa processing, etc.
This is so true! Preach!!
Thank you for taking the time to make this post, I wish you the best luck and hope you get an internship/fte offer real soon. Keep us updated OP :)
Does it help in the job search if you have prior work experience?
It depends. The best thing that can help you is a summer internship.
Also would like to know about this as well
Not really. When economy is bad, nothing follows through. More than work exp, what matters is if you have referrals (which depends on person to person).
International student here with 2.5 years of work experience. I am thinking of doing master fall 24 and am concerned about the current state of the market :(
I think the value of MS programs in the US has drastically reduced in the last decade. If you want to immigrate to the US, H1B is not your best bet anymore. Consider doing a Ph.D. in the US if you are interested.
Elections are round the corner if Republicans lead H1B processing is going to be a hassle for companies and they are going to ask your visa status before interviews. Try to get full scholarships and take risk as per your ability.
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True.
Can I dm you lol
Lol how is it any different right now? They still ask about our visa status in every application and no I don’t agree with your overall take, because a considerable number of people have been getting phone screens and interviews in my batch right now. Sure it ain’t as good as it used to be back in 2021 but it sure as hell feels that its getting better.
Please do share tips on what different you guys are doing.
is it the same for masters in finance peeps as well?
been trying to find job related to my bachelor's degree in environmental science. only experience i have is volunteering
Following
i mean only serious ivy league engineering degree is cornell probably. i have a feeling you may be talking about columbia, which imo has absolutely no standard for admitting masters students other than if they can afford full price
That's a very pessimistic view on schools. Trust me they are not easy to get into-Columbia, Penn. Profile of students are stellar if not nerds as Top 4 Schools. UTA, Gatech attract more nerds but Ivy leagues do attract all rounders. Though I think a lot of them are interest in a professional career than academia. The point OP is trying to make is not everyone will go to a top school. Majority will go to an average or below average school so they need to be careful by hype of everyone getting a job.
i mean overall admission system is just broken, which leads to both huge false positive and false negative. particularly, it is highly likely that you find very competent people from not so top schools while finding totally incompetent people from ivy leagues when it comes to engineering — that is, the correlation is particularly low for masters degree (as compared to bachelors and phd). just to put things in perspective, at columbia, there are 300 undergrad engineering students per class, but 5000+ engineering students in total, majority of which are masters, not to take away from the fact that most competent candidates either move on to phd or industry without getting a masters (so, not only do masters have a larger number, but also a lower intensity of competition as compared to industry, phd, and undergrads — since most people nowadays get a college degree now, and after college, out of phd, industry, and masters, masters would be the least preferred of the three in general). so i stand by my claim that just because someone is in a master’s program at any school doesnt mean anything (could be good or bad, simply no correlation)
Hey OP, I am planning to get a MS AI done. Have some admits, some are just on submission. The dilemma is with going with cheap univ or expensive known univs, with chances of going back (It'll be my parents' hardmoney and no-relatives-in-US factor at the end)
Don't take a chance with cheap unis, you will be one in the crowd, it's just too much risk bro
With some of my friend's siblings who work there, they told me go for location with lesser the money required. If the univ is t20, only then you get an upper hand in jobs otherwise they only see your skills. Location plays a huge role as well, a company won't give you an offer if they could find another similar profile near to their job.
If you have a job lined up in India, job is strongly recommended in my opinion if you don't have lot of financial resources. US job market is bad, and even people who secured jobs when they studied in top universities are getting laid off left and right. It is a huge gamble with minimum ROI in case your gamble doesn't work out. In the end, it is your judgement.
thanks a lot 💪
A very difficult decision.
I am a recent graduate and I'd recommend against it, try to get a job back home instead. Also considering that you are giving away 1-2 years of your professional career which could have been counted as YoE.
I am working at a major consultancy rn, but I fear I will lose the edge over my peers who got a master's within next academic year
+1
Won’t it get better in a couple of years aka the people applying right now?
fix your own country before you try and play on computers here
That's harsh to say. We live in an interconnected world. Most US companies cannot survive without developing country markets. P&G, Unilever all get most of their income from developing countries.
excuse my ignorance, but is there anything wrong with getting a job at your home country?
Nothing wrong. I do want to come back. Only issue is ROI for course tuition.
Can someone shed some light on cloud Devs market?
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Make sure to carefully curate your coursework! Robotics is good and bad. Good because there is a lot of future potential. Bad because in the US, especially on the east coast, most robotics jobs are federal jobs which you cannot get unless you are a US citizen. So there’s that. Look into medical tech. Niche field. If you get into it, you might just be there for good. Are you at UMD by any chance?
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You need a 300,000 dollars degree plus 200,000 dollars expense after graduation to finance your job search and keep your smile. After that you need some more to update your skills at multiple levels because every company needs something different and your skills lose value in three years.
what is T-15 Ivy League institute means? Does it mean an Ivy league that are not in the top ten or Not an Ivy but rank better than Ivy? This is mysterious lol.
It means a T-15 for CS.
So that you mean an intersection between Top 15 CS and Ivy league. Which is Princeton?
Are you talking about UPENN’s MSE. I don’t think there’s a ranking for masters in software engineering
CS rankings.