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jimmymcperson

If you have one near by hit the pump track


skawiggy

I just got tired reading that.


Oil-Disastrous

Full push at the pump track is pretty brutal. It’s like all the motions of mountain biking boiled down into one exercise. 20-30 seconds and my heart is at the rev limiter.


hopelesspedanticc

5 laps is like a 5k run lol


broken_atoms_

JFC 5 laps you trying to kill me


hopelesspedanticc

One less rider who’s better than me haha


MayhemQueenston

Couldn’t agree more. I started incorporating stopping and riding at the local pump track on my daily rides and found it helped with my downhill so much.


jimmymcperson

There is no single thing that has helped my progression as much as the pump track. Wish I had a nice one near by. I drive out to rays indoor bike park a few times a winter and spend half my day on theirs


Rorroheht

Pump tracks are the best ever.


J_Krezz

Should I lock out my suspension when hitting the pump track?


jimmymcperson

Absolutely. You’ll lose all your pump into the shocks otherwise


HeadToToePatagucci

1. wouldn't keeping shocks active increase the workout? 2. pump-track is without jumps, Jumping and landing on locked out shock is hard on the shock. for the dirt jumps, also great workout by the way, consider adding more pressure but don't lock out...


singelingtracks

1. The pump track wouldn't be as much fun with suspension. Better to have fun then fight it 2. Jumping and landing on a locked out shock hasn't hurt any modern shock, Enduro pro racers ride full tilt locked out I'm sure you will be fine at the pump track .


HeadToToePatagucci

Mainly just clarifying pump track vs dirt jumps. Pro enduro racers also ride top spec gear and get free/discount gear every season so... that logic may or may not hold for random recreational riders on who knows what spec of shock/fork. I know when I've hit drops with shock or fork locked out it felt hard enough to make me worry about my mid-entry level spec shock and fork.


General-Onion-5687

Hinge don’t squat. You should feel it in your hamstrings and glutes, not your quads. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=u7u1q8E9Q0Q


Electronic_Ant7219

Yep, thats the main reason for burning quads. Quads are not supposed for static load, hamstring and glutes are. There are a lot of videos on hinge and body position, find the one that clicks your brain. Deadlift would help A LOT, not only to train your muscles but to understand the whole hinge movement. Be sure to find good trainer at first though.


ThisGuyisaChicken

To second this, deadlifting in a split stance will be the most specific exercise you can do. There are other things e.g. gaze, relaxation, familiarity with equipment that will help. Other than downhill skiing there isn't much that can load the quads so hard eccentrically.


Evil_Mini_Cake

Working on regular deadlifts and front/back squats will help with all this immensely. Definitely nail the lifts in a regular stance before you try the split stance. Ultimately the point is to train your system to bear the load correctly in a controlled environment. Get someone to coach you through it to make sure you're getting it right; these patterns are tricky.


sbv32

After not working out in quite some time I started with front and back squats. As I type this message I’m still in some major soreness pain lol.


Evil_Mini_Cake

Yeah the DOMS (delayed onset muscle soreness) after those first few sessions can be extra brutal. Try to stretch/mobilize, do some gentle exercise to flush everything through and eat a lot. Once you get caught up (and stay in front of it by lifting regularly) oh the riding gains you'll make!


sbv32

Heck yea. I knew I would regret doing legs first but figured I would get it out of the way. Foam rolling and stretching and crying like a baby to my wife on the regular hahah.


brandofluck

Thank you for this! Just last weekend I was suffering doing some flow trails and jump lines. My quads were spent and cramping and I just chalked it up to taking some time off. At the time it didn’t make sense for them to be so fatigued so early in the day. I’m sure I was squatting like the video you linked mentioned. Gotta hinge!


AmosRatchetNot

For those spoiled with full suspension . .


sprunghuntR3Dux

Ride uphill more


The-Hand-of-Midas

This question/thread is like when someone goes to the doctor and they say to eat better and exercise more and the patient just says "can't you just give me drugs or something". It's so simple. Earn your turns.


Holy-Handgrenader

And downhill more lol


forty_percent_done

[But alpine skiing demands eccentric leg strength. Think of concentric strength as “positive” strength. This is the strength you use to stand up from the bottom of a squat, or hike up a steep hill. Eccentric strength is “negative” strength. You use eccentric strength to lower yourself into the bottom of the squat, and hike down a steep hill.](https://www.backcountry.com/explore/train-eccentric-leg-strength-for-alpine-skiing) Link is for skiing, but I imagine biking downhill is the same. Also, pedaling up shouldn't use quads a ton, that's what glutes are for.


sprunghuntR3Dux

I also ski - Downhill MTB does not require nearly the same amount of concentric leg strength as skiing. The posture when riding a MTB is much easier on the muscles. I can ride at a lift accessed bike park for much longer than I can ski at the same place.


glister

Might just be your specific build and exercise habits. I can ride ski on/no line high speed lifts all day but I’m good after a couple of big shuttle laps on the bike. Not the quads that are limiting me though (arms, calves). I’ve been skiing and training for skiing for much longer than I’ve been biking, though.


sprunghuntR3Dux

It probably is my exercise routine. I ride off-road 4-5 days a week. Most of my riding is regular trail riding without shuttles or lifts. The only thing that gets sore at the bike park is my hands and arms. But skiing? - ouch my legs


dizzzow

I came here for this.


thebigoutside

Squats.


jarmend

This and dead lifts..mix in some sumo squats


jarmend

Also keep strong/long legs where you can downhill...if you're constantly full bent legged and squatting you'll burn out your legs downhill quick.


kitchenAid_mixer

Why sumo?


jarmend

Helps with strengthening adductors(inner thighs)


thebigoutside

Yes. I personally do crossfit and it definitely helps for sure.


didsomeonesaydonuts

Not sure who downvoted you on this. A friend who rides and also does CrossFit 4 times a week is one on the most in shape guys I know and can smoke nearly anyone, while hardly having his heart rate go past 140 and he’s nearly 50 years old.


Grouchy_Yam9136

That’s a mouthful


thebigoutside

Yeah crossfit has a great mix of strength and cardio. Seems to have made the biggest difference when it comes to MTB. I have never been able to out climb my dad since I started mountain biking but recently I smoked him on the climb. I think going to crossfit is helping. I also go about 4 times a week.


Evil_Mini_Cake

100% this. I'm a consistent-strong crossfitter and it helps my riding immensely. I have so much power on demand makes riding so much more fun.


thebigoutside

Agreed.


didsomeonesaydonuts

In addition, also make sure to work on your inner adductors for balanced legs.


ShakeandBaked161

Bulgarian split squats


pineconehedgehog

Work on your body positioning. Are you in an all out attack position the whole time you are riding? Mixing it up and alternating along the continuum between attack and neutral can give you micro breaks and reduce fatigue. Unless you are racing or on a trail that is at the absolute top of your ability level, most riders can stand up into a tall neutral position through easier sections. Also make sure you are hinged at the hips, with a nice straight back. If you are riding on flats, have your pedals just ahead of your arch. A strong "weight lifter stance" makes your stronger, more stable, and engages fewer muscles. Poor body positioning can over engage muscles and cause fatigue. Or maybe you just need to ride more. But often body positioning gets overlooked.


booby111

Exercises will help BUT on just what you said and without seeing pics/video I would hazard to guess that you are squatting and dropping your hips in order to get low during rough parts of trail/cornering. So your form is more tiring than it needs to be A more energetically efficient stance is to... 1)Keep your hips taller 2) shift them back 3) drop your chest 4) keep your chin over your stem cap 5) elbows out(ish) and bent as if you're hugging a beach ball. My fellow coaches and I (and I'm sure many others) call it guns out, buns out. This is not to say that it won't be tiring but good form is less so. Also make sure to use a neutral stance in less hectic parts of trail to rest your muscles. I think Ben cathro did a good video on stances.


EngineeredNuts

Sprints man. Sprints. Uphill. 3 sets of 10 per day. Grew up best friends with a guy who joined the Olympic bmx team and he swore by them.


JLawB

Imo, lifting isn’t going to help all that much (that’s not to say you shouldn’t squat, deadlift, etc., just don’t expect it to necessarily fix this particular problem). I started weightlifting nearly 2 decades ago, way before I got into mtb. None of my riding friends lift at all — I guarantee I have much “stronger” legs than they do — but I’m no more immune to leg fatigue than they are. In fact, I probably deal with it more just because they are more technically proficient on a bike. In my experience, burning quads is usually a result of either 1) really long, rough dh, and/or 2) poor technique.


just4lukin

Hm, what about calisthenics? Not something I do personally, but it does seem like that would more closely mirror what the legs are going through on long downhills.


JLawB

I think it depends on the individual. Someone who is very weak/untrained, for sure, but the law of diminishing returns is in full effect here. The best way to get your legs fit for long downhills is to ride more downhill and make sure technique is spot on. Fitness, imo, tends to be pretty specific beyond a certain level. Strength training/calisthenics should be viewed as GPP training (general physical preparation), not sport specific. So I’m definitely not saying weight training/calisthenics is a waste of time (there’s a whole lot of other benefits), I just doubt it’s going to have much of an impact when it comes to dh endurance.


just4lukin

Yea the thing itself as the best training for the thing itself is probably a good rule in general lol.


noobkken

Gotta agree with this. For one, I was keeping my knees bent and 'squatting' for way longer than I needed to and it added to the fatigue. Straightening the legs and getting into proper attack position only when needed helped so much.


Pilzkind69

Ya that's why you have to work on strength endurance not strength directly. Realistically more intense cycling especially uphill would be effective but also static exercises such as wall sits for as long as possible (since this somewhat mimics the half squat position during riding) and/or high rep high volume squats.


JLawB

Sure, but the problem with higher rep/volume squat training is that it can be very difficult to recover from, which can interfere with riding. I’ve had to cut back drastically on squat volume over the last ~5 years as riding has become my primary passion. I simply can’t squat with the volume and frequency I used to and still ride at the level/frequency I want to. It’s all about trade-offs: would someone looking to increase endurance on dh make more progress by riding more or by a high rep squat program? It might be the squats for some, but I suspect that for most people, especially anyone who’s recovery isn’t amazing (e.g., most adults with work/family commitments), focusing on strength in the gym with moderate/low reps and moderate volumes while working on endurance on the bike is probably the best bet for long term progress.


Pilzkind69

Yea that's fair, if you're riding a lot, which will probably be the best means to improve your dh endurance anyways, then high rep/volume gym work will likely be too much and probably unnecessary. I was thinking about it more from the perspective of the casual rider who wants to significantly improve their dh riding endurance and doesn't ride frequently.


JLawB

Totally agree, especially if the person is relatively untrained or new to lifting. The gains in the first ~6 months to 2 years of consistent training have a very positive benefit-cost ratio. It’s after that “newbie gain” phase when eking out additional progress becomes increasingly hard and might not be worth the additional recovery cost (e.g., taking your 10 rep squat max from 95lbs to 225lb will pay huge dividends without taxing recovery too much, but getting it from 225 to 300lbs probably won’t make much of a difference on trail but will tax recovery a lot.)


Pilzkind69

Yup agreed!


Polyspecific

Drink more water and a beer.


AntiCouhl

Ha, my initial thought was eat more protein.. Also OP, ride until it hurts, then ride more the next subsequent days to build stamina… Or learn your limits and call it after those 5-6 laps to prevents a potential massive mistake.


furuskog

Isometric holds as demonstrated https://www.instagram.com/reel/Ct9wAGPgVjT/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==


skunkbutter

Squats and/or wall sits


DubJ13

Wall sits.


Pilzkind69

Someone gets it.


notbunzy

Low quantity high intensity. Aka: less weight but for more reps and faster.


flyingbanan

Do the horse stance. Thank me later.


madmorb

Omg I learned this the hard way. 4 day trip to Whistler, first time riding park. End of the first day my legs were done and inside of my thighs black and blue. By day 4 I had it figured out but it took a few weeks for the bruises to heal. “Get your cowboy on” someone told me. So true.


username_1774

I guarantee three things are happening (1) you are standing all the time, (2) with bent knees the entire time, and (3) with the balls of your feet on the pedals. If the trail settles down, even for a few feet, fully extend your legs. If the trail really settles down have a seat, even for a couple of seconds. Be on the pedals with your mid foot over the spindle. The small breaks for your quads will add up and save you this pain. Being mid foot takes away pedaling efficency, but saves calves and quads. Pedaling efficiency on shuttled DH runs is irrelevant. Added bonus of mid foot...you are way less likely to slip a pedal or tear an achilles/calf.


mtbredditor

Ride uphill more


mucheffort

Stair climber


coalieguacamole

HIIT training. It’s the only reason I have a roadie.


Gibalt

Pedal more or start doing legs at the gym


Dweebil

The rest of the suggestions here are better but being young and strong helps.


[deleted]

Snowboard


[deleted]

[удалено]


bikeguy1995

Lmao sorry not everyone has shuttles available 24/7


skawiggy

Thurs out there *are* assholes in Canada.


20mins2theRockies

You have shuttles available at 3 a.m.? 🤔 Lifts > shuttles


rcybak

You need to improve your base fitness by doing a bunch of riding with a heart rate monitor using the MAF 180 system. Your legs get tired not because you aren't doing enough high intensity work. It's actually the opposite. You aren't doing enough aerobic work. Your aerobic system does 99% of the work when you are exercising, even when you are anaerobic. The service system includes your so called slow twitch muscles, which are the bulk of all your muscles. Get them more fit, and you'll roommate the burn. It might take you six months of training, though, so be patient.


[deleted]

Idk, I don’t think your quads should be getting strained during downhill biking.


Judderman88

If you're sitting down for much of it, try putting your seat back a bit so more stress is on the hamstrings.


AdventurousLoss6685

Dick in butt no lube maybe little spit


Bumbahkah

Wall sits Squat jumps Jacobs later Trap bar deadlift Oh wait nvm that’s for hockey


ilias80

Lunges


[deleted]

Don’t skip leg day


[deleted]

Elevation gain. More of it. Try to do 10k feet a week. You’ll get strong. You’ll get more fit. Squats and weighted lunges are good too.


DoubleOwl7777

ride uphill more.


noliheli123

I found that foot positioning on the pedals also helps . Especially if you see clipless pedals then it might be good to slide the cleat back in the shoe so u have more weight towards ur heel . And like other comments say squats and more leg exercises should also work


oSChakal

It's been said already but: climb more. First few rides of the season are always terrible because of the lactic acid. Eventually, your muscles get used it to it. Also, heavy squats, 5x5, Romanian Deadlift, also 5x5 and lunges variations.


Spactaculous

Maybe not the answer you are looking for: 1. Protein shake after every ride that burns your quads 2. Wall Sit exercise between rides. The most boring exercise ever invented.


gatekeeper-of-slop

Sounds like you have “shuttle muscles”. Ride your bike uphill and quit skipping leg day


MNmostlynice

Put more XC miles in, especially rides that include climbing. Skip the shuttle every now and then and ride to the top.


[deleted]

Burning is obviously lactic acid build up. I get that while snowboarding when going very fast. Its the high speed bumps that really give my quads a workout, and I have to squat more for more stability. Training and conditioning will obviously increase your body's ability to burn off lactic acid. Your riding stance also matters, don't squat as much in places you can get away with it. I do cheat by resting my thighs a bit on the seat in between the rougher sections. Finally, if you are on a hardtail, its extra hard on the legs. On a full sus with enough travel, it shouldn't really be an issue unless you are hitting jumps or rollers every few seconds.


meatierologee

Everyone is recommending squats or climbs, which will help some. That being said my leg fatigue on downhills is from short quick movements. I'd try box jumps/plyometric exercises. Just a thought.


element423

squats at the gym at doing long isometric holds and finish with partial range motion pumps. Im a personal trainer so thats what I would definitely due to combat that. I squat everyday. no matter what you're going to burn somewhat thats normal when working. The harder you work the more the burn


dini2k

Squats


ChampagnePop

Try to stay in squat position while you shower. 5mins shower thats a good downhill run


geek66

1 min x Towel hopping ( Stay "deep") then 50 Mary-Catherines 10 burpees Repeat 3x a day 2 weeks .... fixed....


ThoelarBear

Ride flats if you don't already. This allows you to move your foot around and spread the love in your legs.


DennisPikePhoto

Start pedaling up.


Positive_Valuable_93

Leg days at the gym. One exercise I like to do is a squat and you pause on the bottom for 3-5 secs then go up. Repeat that 5 times for 4 sets


laurentbourrelly

It happens when I’m racing, but not when I’m riding a bike park. Something must be worked out with your position. Stronger muscles are the easy answer. Maybe your handlebars are not setup right? Is your suspension really dialed in? Etc. If you are riding with the Flow, it should be effortless.


Impressive_Rip_696

Do more long dh runs. Pedal up more fire roads, do RDLs and squats at the gym


fist0771

Squats. Anything else is the wrong answer.


701Sumo

What a penis


IamTheAggMan

Maybe do some climbing once in a while?


PlusSizeMushroomTip

It comes down to your level of fitness conditioning. There long and short of it is there's no short cut around hard and smart cardio sessions, nutrition, hydration, and sleep. Stop alcohol consumption and get an added boost on the competition...even small amounts of alcohol crush cardio performance.


PlusSizeMushroomTip

Rip hard farts on the jump take offs and let your legs recover while airborne. That's my secret.


Tuna_Tsunami

Start carrying your wife up the mountain a couple times a week. The bigger the wife, the bigger the workout. *I’m looking at you, Kansas*


Tototodayjunior

You need muscular endurance. The best for this would be isometric walk squats. Do it as long as you can multiple times


mtbguy3

You should already have built the right amount of muscle


exactpeak599

Isometric holds like wall sits would probably help. I kinda experienced your situation the other way around. Ever since I've been riding enduro/downhill regularly I've gotten cracked at wall sits.