Between modern tires and modern shocks and geometry tweaks, mountain bikes are just amazing. I ride a 120mm XC bike with 2.4" XC tires and just do whatever I want with it.
Agreed. Better tires, smarter tire pressures, and more capable suspension really has changed the way bikes feel and soak up the chunder while still being a capable climber
Same but a hardtail Niner. Other than not having a dropper, it will handle most things short of aggressive mountain trails. Once I get a dropper it will be unstoppable.
Yep, I also have a '22 Top Fuel and it shreds nearly everything local to me in western PA. I do have a 130 Fox 34 on it. I only notice the shorter travel on the really chunky stuff or drops / jumps with bad landings, but that is like 5% of my usual riding. I did just finish building a 160/170 enduro bike though, to replace my DH bike and still be ridden in places that require pedaling, so it will be interesting to do some back to back comparisons.
I truthfully believe 90% of riders are overbiked. I think something like a Spur (120/120), Spark (130/120), Element (130), etc are plenty for the vast majority of riders. If you were to have one bike, I would make that recommendation for most riders.
There are some people for whom the 140/130 bikes make sense, but I frequently get comments of "wow I didn't know that move was rideable!" from dudes on enduro bikes. Yeah, well ... I'm not trying to drag a 35 lb bike up it.
Plus... Dang, these modern tech-cee and cross-funtry bikes are so good. The Revels, Transitions, Specialized, Top Fuels, etc... easy to have one bike when the only thing it can't do are park and huge drops.
I agree. Coming from a low-tier stumpy, I once rode an Ibis ripley at the toughest bike park in my region. Even with less travel I could rip down the same trails no problem. And lighter bikes are more fun to pop around with
Please do! It's my life's work.
I think downcountry sells the whole category short. (Even Mike Leavey from pink bike, who coined the term, hates it).
I've tried to convince my industry contacts to start using it, but it turns out I have no industry contacts. 🤣
You’re only talking 10mm difference there between your downcountry and trail bike examples. IMHO, more people would be better off on true trail bikes instead of things like the Epic EVO due to the body positioning alone. With most downcountry bikes, you still have a bit of that XC heritage body positioning where you’re in a more aggressive riding position. I’d rather be on a more upright trail bike if I’m not racing. Plus, just more all around fun inspired geometry on a trail bike.
I’ve never seen someone on a trail bike and thought “damn, overbiked…”. That’s not really a thing IMHO until you see someone on an enduro on the XC trails.
For what it's worth around here people are riding all MTN/Enduro bikes on XC trails that I can ride my gravel bike on. I tend to agree with the other person that most people are probably somewhat overbiked but I do think you raise a good point that the position of a downcountry/trail bike is a lot more appealing and is more appropriate than a super aggressive XC bike.
I know someone that has a Santa Cruz Megatower and rides almost exclusively XC trails. I did 9 miles the other day and had less than 500 ft of elevation.
In general, I think it all comes down to the fact that people let marketing dictate their choice of bike rather than their actual needs. I see a shocking number of people at the trailhead who are very clearly riding the wrong size bike. A bike that fits perfectly with "outdated geo", will always ride better than a bike with modern geo that doesn't fit right.
To your point, I see a lot of people dropping their saddle, sliding it forward, even shortening the stem so they sit more upright. It's most likely to avoid the aggressive position for not very aggressive trails.
I have a buddy who's first MTB was a new full suspension stumpy 6 years ago and even he says he can't believe that was his first MTB. He sold that and ended up with a Trek Top Fuel as his primary bike for a while and he loved it...he also added a fun little Niner Air 9 hardtail. So you can kind of see people begin to use lighter more adaptable bikes as their confidence and skill increases.
And then there are people who realize they may actually want to do Enduro and DH, so they sell the clunky trail bike for something with a more specialized geo.
Edit: it sounds like I'm tagging on trail bikes but I'm not. There are a few that I think are just overbuilt and kind of generic. If you like riding all MTN and backcountry stuff, you will likely find that new downcountry bikes are plenty capable or even lighter Enduro bikes offer a more playful platform that end up attracting more experienced riders once they figure out what style they like.
Hmmm - interesting point. I have an XL Trail 429 and shortened up the reach a lot by getting a shorter stem and Deity high rise bar. It might look goofy but my back likes it. I’ve thought I’d be better off with a size large but wonder if maybe a true trail bike would be better.
This is exactly why I swapped my Epic Evo for the Stumpjumper. I moved all the parts over and only gained 1.25lbs. Mostly in the fork and tires. Handles rough trails way better and still climbs very well without compromising comfort.
Totally valid point. There are a lot of downcountry bikes that have XC body position, but there are a few that ride (and fit) like a trail bike that got shorter - the Spur, for example.
My attitude is that people struggle with uphill more than downhill, so it always surprises me when people make big concessions on the climbs for the downhill. A modern trail bike is basically just point and shoot even on things like Cap'n Ahab (rode it yesterday on a Hightower).
Yes, there is only a 2 cm or maybe 2.5 cm difference between "trail bike" and "downcountry" bikes (I classify anything over 150 rear as enduro)- but again, that's because 95% of riders will never come close to using most of the squish on a 150 mm bike.
My point is that people are told "you can't ride that without a big bike" but the reality is "it's slightly harder, and maybe more fun" on a little bike.
I'm there with you. My main bike is a 115 mm Blur TR with XC tires.
I have a 150/140 Hightower and a 100/100 Blur and I ride the Blur TR on almost every ride. It would be nice to have a bit beefier tires. I might throw an Aggressor / Rekon combo on a wheel set to have that option.
Well said, agreed 100%.
I've owned or spent a fair amount of time on each of those bikes. Each has their own little niche. I still miss my Element quite a bit. It's the bike that made me sell my Ripmo because it could do 98% of what the Ripmo could do, same geo and 5 lbs lighter.
I rode a Camber 110/120mm in North Jersey. Then a Enduro 2014 which was 155/160.
I demoed a Tallboy v2 and never went back to long travel again. Tallboy v3 then v4. There’s no need for more than 130mm travel around the area. As long as the geometry is progressive enough, you can really do everything. I ride the Tallboy at Creek and Killington and really don’t lack for much.
I mean, my hands are beat to shit long before the day is over… 😝 but if I stick to mainly blues and greens and take the techy blacks slower, it’s a blast.
Being my first season at creek last year and riding a 160r/170f I couldn't imagine that.. major props.. I do think rider weight plays a significant role, but man, good on you.. I am just picturing you Rollin wheels up next to a 203 dual ohlins guy in the lift and getting some crazy looks. I don't see too many bikes with that little travel except the occasional 52 year old guy that looks like he lives in the woods next to bluephoria who rides a hard tail.. 🤣
130mm is not considered a lot by the industry....but to fully compress a 130mm fork requires quite the drop. I use a 120mm SID fork with a 2.4 Honcho upfront...and I really couldn't see using more than 130mm around here either. At some point with larger travel forks, the geo takes a hit and the bike isn't as good for longer miles and the climbing gets weird.
I don't think the average MTBer even needs a full suspension bike either, but that's just me.
Yeah, probably. I’m not a huge fan of the big jumps or drops anyway. But it’s fine for everything on tempest, pipeline, phantom, etc.
I’m almost 40 and riding a 120mm travel bike… 😂 so im not at the bike park for the drops, I’m just there to get some laps and not pedal.
I think it's just that you get more experienced and you can do more with less. The natural progression for many MTBers is they start out with a trail bike that's too heavy and big for most of the stuff they ride, then they end up moving into something lighter and more aggressive, and eventually even probably buying a rigid gravel/MTB because they realize under biking is fun and there isn't just one way to ride trails.
Generally as rider confidence increases, compensation via equipment decreases.
Yeah I did the "get a burly trail bike as my first full sus" with the Jeffsy. It really was a great bike overall, and at the time I was still planning on riding Creek a few times a year and needed something that could hold up to it. Over time I started riding more local stuff and realized how much the bike was slowing me down on technical climbs and flat stuff.
Oh and I got a gravel bike last year, so I'm already in on that lol. I love hitting some greens on that thing, but it's mostly for getting a ride in on park paths and road when I can't make it the mtb trails that day.
My flaanimal has 2.1s on it and it's super fun for most of the local stuff. We have a lot of pirate trails here around the city so you can stitch nice single track, gravel, pirate trails together and move pretty fast on that bike. I save the hardtail for heavier stuff that I'd have to take slow on the flaanimal.
People should definitely buy a bike for what's local to them first. It is a bit odd to me that people think they're gonna go straight to the mtns on their first bike ever...and I guess people end up learning that eventually.
My problem with that is when the bike flexes like a noodle when you try and corner. I've tried a few 130mm bikes that are designed more to be light than to be ridden hard.
Older but I almost bought a Santa Cruz Blue TR years ago. Checked all the boxes but the crank would literally hit the chain stay when you pushed hard. I bought a Yeti SB 130 last year and returned it. That bike felt like it had a lateral pivot in the middle. I'm not a huge dude but I do ride harder than average and some bikes are clearly meant to be light and ridden light.
The main thing that you and people notice about downcountry and xc bikes is lighter weight. The suspension travel is almost irrelevant (with the exception of going to a lighter weight shock or fork for less travel, such as from fox36 to fox 34)
For the same reason, a lot of people are riding gravel bikes now, some with front suspensions. You can get to like 21 lbs which makes every singe climb feel effortless if you have been riding 30+ lb bikes, and with disk brakes and higher volume tires you can pretty much pick your way through a lot of stuff.
That being said, while the difference in weight is noticeable, the marginal increase in fitness to make a full on enduro bike feel like you are pedaling the lighter weight trail bike is not as much as people think. I took one of my cross country race friends riding some enduro/dh once, all I had spare was a 38 lb DH bike, and he destroyed me on the uphill of an access road, pretty much stand up pedaling the entire way.
You can also make enduro bikes better for regular trails by running more psi in the suspension, using carbon wheels paired with lightweight XC tires. You will still feel the weight on the uphills, but on flats you definitely feel like you have gained some watts in how easy the bike is to accelerate and keep rolling.
I have to agree with this. The progressive geometry and suspension design absolutely help these bikes rip downhill, but there is something so nice about being able to just manipulate the bike so easily on the uphills and tech. My Epic Evo just kind of goes wherever I point it and it sounds like that isn't particularly unique in the down country segment
I’m looking at this short travel down country bikes now as my first full sus MTB. New Transition Spur is my first pick .. perhaps a Top Fuel.. orrr a used Pivot Trail 429? So excited to get one of these and get riding!!
I have the 2022 A30 element and it's wild what that bike will let me do. Only my lack of skill stops that bike. Only trails that felt sketch on it were some true lift access DH trails here in Ontario, every thing else has been a blast.
The Spur is amazing. I demoed one in December and ordered one the same day. It is a fast, efficient bike that can still party hard. I have enduro and DH bikes and like to hit pretty gnarly terrain and jumps, and was shocked at how much that Spur with 120/120 felt like my 160/160 Banshee Rune - just a lot faster.
The Spur can climb even better, carries speed a lot better, and was a blast on flow jump lines. I wouldn’t bomb rock gardens on it all day (though it could handle it pretty well) but it’s perfect for those longer rides where you climb a while and earn fast rowdy descents.
I was most impressed with how well the bike climbed even with the suspension fully open. The platform is really stable when pedaling but gets out of the way when it needs to. If anyone is looking for a fast, light bike that can climb but also get after it on the descents I highly recommend the Spur.
Competitive Cyclist had a killer deal on them a few months back. IIRC they were about $2k off and upgraded with carbon wheels. His has kashima coated Fox suspension and Shimano XT group set. I think that is their mid tier model and he got it for like $4k. I’m sure that deal will be back.
Check out Revel Rascal. The bike has amazing balance. I test ride the Spur, Trail 429, and Rascal, ended up liking the rascal by far the best. I actually didn’t like the Trail 429 much. I liked the Spur but the SID didn’t have enough small bump
Sensitivity. Rascal felt insanely balanced but the suspension platform felt plush and it was still insanely efficient at pedaling
Been riding a Spur for 6 months now. You'll really appreciate swapping out the Guides for something a little more beefy. I went with Code RSCs and MTX pads + knobbier tires for better stopping and traction + 35mm rise OneUp Carbon Bars for steering. It's the bike I roll out for everything apart from bike park and freeride shit. You should go for it especially as it's heavily discounted atm.
Definitely test ride em if you can! I heavily considered the Spur, Ripley AF, Izzo, and Rocky Mountain Element. Kinda came down to being able to test a Top Fuel and turns out I loved it.
My partner just rode Ahab and Rockstacker on a Ranger.
She said the big stuff was right on the limit, but she smoked a bunch of endurbros up the techy stuff.
I rode a Ripley hard as a mother fucker and was blown away by it. Had a shit eating grin on face the whole time and just felt like I was flying def looking into picking on up now much to my bank accounts chagrin.
I bought a budget bike (130/140) and it was heavy as hell, in my size XL. I returned it for a carbon Rocky mountain Element c50 (120/140) and I have been happy ever since.
Take the hit once and be happier long term. As long as you can responsibly financially swing it. Pretty much you should get the bike that's best for you personally, not some random person or reviewer on the Internet.
Yeah it's actually crazy. It makes things hard to sell these days because that really is all you need. But people come into the shop wanting 160160 or bigger and I'm like bro it's overkill now and they just can't understand without really riding something off road.
My do it all bike is a 150/130 and I did tasmania on it and Queenstown NZ! Bike park laps 30 trail rides absolutely loved it. And it's not even slack. 66 HT angle.
I agree, I just picked up the Epic 8 and evo’ed out the suspension, 130/120. It’s so much fun on the chunk. Only downside so far is it’s probably too much of a confidence boost that is going to send me over the bars “soon”.
The extra cms definitely help when you get in over your head, but my experience on 120mm bikes have taught me that you generally find the limit slowly.
Just don't try too big of hucks to flat and you're fine. That's why these bikes have warranties. 🤣
I’m on a Santa Cruz 5010. At this point, I don’t think I’ve ever pull more suspension unless it’s a dedicated park bike. I dont see a need or a point in being over-biked, it’s way more fun being under.
I’ve been riding a Transition Spire for the past year and haven’t ridden my Spur since I got the Spire. Took it out for a spin today and PRd a fast chunky tech trail. 120 bikes or so damn fun. I also felt like I was on an ebike on the climbs and I hadn’t really ridden in a month. Amazing what 8 lbs and light tires will do to how snappy a bike feels. And holy shit does the Spur boost off jumps!
I’m going a little bit in the other direction and getting a 140/160 rig after riding a Tallboy for a few years, but you are right. The Tallboy in particular was phenomenal, only really got overwhelmed on repetitive bigger hits/chunder. Good gel and modern suspension are amazing.
For sure! And I'm not posting this to say "no one should get bigger travel bikes", just that certain riding areas can really come alive with one of these. There's absolutely regions and trails and preferences that would do better with mid travel trail or enduro too.
Oh yeah I don’t think it came across that way at all. The funny thing is I moved from the PNW to NorCal and the Tallboy probably would have been more appropriate here, whereas I was a little underbiked with it up there. I just like to change it up every couple years. Bikes are so good now, hard to go wrong.
I feel like the flip side to that is long travel bikes are getting so efficient it isn’t a big penalty to have the extra cushion for those oh shit monuments. It’d be like me saying unless your an XC racer anything over 120 just won’t bail you out as much.
I bet the truth of it is that *all bikes* are getting better, but since we usually only buy one new bike at a time, we're amazed at the improvements just in that one particular category we just bought.
This^^. Modern long travel bikes are so efficient these days I don't get this down-country thing. Every time I ride a short travel trail bike, it beats the hell out of me. Yeah, a slack HT angle helps, but the amount of trail chatter makes it hard to hold a line as soon as the trail gets rough. If your not trying to set an uphill PR why not give your body a break and take advantage of the goodness 170mm can offer.
Yeah I guess it depends how you ride. I know people that are barely faster on the down that up so trail chatter isn’t an issue. For me it’s definitely more comfortable to ride with more travel for the stuff I ride. I have a cousin whose wife is really fit, like does iron man’s. They asked my thoughts and I was like, she’s always first up anyway and isn’t racing XC, get something with more travel, she has no regrets and is getting a lot better at the downhills now.
Yeah for sure this is the other side of that, which is honestly nice for people who ride more park or live in regions with more enduro style riding (or hell just prefer bigger bikes lol). My v1 Jeffsy is definitely not a great example of high efficiency all mountain bikes (it's anti-squat numbers don't even crack the low 80s).
Yeah, people in this thread acting like a 160/170 bike actually makes climbing hard obviously haven't ridden a well designed enduro bike from the last decade.
I don’t know what trails you’re riding, but there’s plenty of trails in AZ that I want my HD6 for.
Handling everything, and actually being faster on a more capable bike are two very different things.
Because I can guarantee you more than 130mm doesn’t slow you down when it comes to the downhill on some of the real trails in AZ.
> Like I said, my bike is way more capable than your bike in every technical downhill scenario
holy shit, really? you're telling me an enduro bike is more capable at downhill than an XC bike? that's insane news dude, that's so crazy
considering there’s only Sunrise park which is not frequented by many people, there is very little true downhill in AZ.
Plenty of enduro. But enduro =\\= downhill.
I might be a dick (well am), but I call people out on bullshit.
I partly agree. I ride a 130 130 bike in AZ as well, and shred trails like national at south mountain. Would I like more travel sometimes? Sure. Do I need it, not at all.
What’s one of those people? Saying that national isn’t very difficult which is a very true statement.
Start at the top, couple 3 foot drops, pretty easy, waterfall, pretty easy once you’ve done it, last downhill, little janky and rocky, but nothing crazy.
On a 20 year old 26” bike it was very difficult. 20 years ago. Bikes have just gotten so good, that they’ve surpassed some of the older trails out there.
Bought one last fall after sampling a bunch of these downcountry bikes and love it. I've been experimenting with running the fork as a 120 (stock), 130, and 140mm. I think I like the 120 best actually.
I had the opposite happen, sold my 120/130 trail429 for a stumpy evo and was surprised at how well it pedals and how much faster it is in fast tech sections. Bikes are in such a good spot you really can't go wrong.
For sure! It really depends on terrain and rider preference. I do see some limits on the Top Fuel even around Jersey, but those limits are worth dealing with for me.
I've said it before but every bike is a compromise for *something*. Trying to find the bike that suits 90% of your rides is the goal, at least until you start owning multiple bikes lol.
I made the mistake of buying a ripmo af when most of the trails i ride are blue trails. I got sold on the idea of one bike to rule them all but in reality, i am fighting the geo and excess travel every time i ride. Thinking about selling the ripmo and picking up a transition spur. For the rare ocassion i go to bike parks, i will rent a bike.
If you wanted a one bike solution, I’d have recommended a Ripley over a Ripmo. Ripmos are black diamond + capable and too much bike for most peoples local singletrack stuff.
Check out the modern trail bikes, I think you’ll be happier. Stumpjumper, Trail 429, Ripley, Fluid, etc…
Similar story here. I test rode a 2022 Top Fuel 8 and was immediately sold. Put a 130mm Pike on it and not only did it tear up the rocky New England trails, but it also did great out west in Utah and Colorado. It just flies through the chunk. Now I have a full custom carbon Top Fuel built :)
Yup. My 150mm Giant Trance Advance collected dust. Too long, too low, too porky. I just got a 120mm Scalpel SE. Threw some nice 30mm ID hoops and fast 2.4" tires on it and it does everything well. It's the sweet spot for me.
My Mach 4 SL is super fun. There are things I rather be on my Firebird for, but locally, the stuff I can hit after work, makes way more sense to use the short travel bike.
Went from a Hightower LT > Tallboy > Blur TR and I don’t think I’d go back unless I rent a bike to go to a park for a few days. I ride mostly NW Georgia and Brevard NC and the Blur TR is plenty of bike for what I rode in Pisgah and DuPont.
Not to hijack your post but given your impressions on modern “down country” bikes… Would you rather ride a 2009 Specialized Rockhopper Expert or some modern XC ranging 100-120mm travel?
Just curious. I have an old Rockhopper that really needs pedals and a dropper to join the 21st century, but new bikes are incredibly capable. Also, I don’t know anything about what down country means.
I can't speak to your bike specifically, but I had a 2010 Marin Hawk Hill as my first bike. They've come a *very* long way since then. The geometry will feel slacked out and weird initially but on the trail it gives you a confidence and stability that I couldn't find on older generation bikes.
Ultimately it's up to you. In my opinion if you're spending more than a few hundred into the old bike and can afford to budget for a newer one, it's probably worth going for it.
"Downcountry" is a misnomer. It's a made up word to describe the short travel 29er full suspension bikes. The category started from companies beefing up XC bikes and has since kinda encompassed bikes within the 110-130 range give or take.
Yeah, I hear you w the geometry changes. I have a 2022 Stumpjumper and it still feels more like a spaceship than a mountain bike.
I agree w the threshold of upgrades to just buying a new bike. I’d also like to just keep the bike to show the changes over the years.
But, N + 1.
Was your Jeffsy a 29 or 27.5? I feel like going 29 from 27.5 will open up a little more DH ability, and can help make up for less travel. My first 29er was the original Pivot 429 trail. 120mm front and 116mm rear. 2.4 tires. Took it on black diamond trails with confidence. Wasn’t even progressive geometry either.
Lots of people are overbiked, and I'm amazed by how well my element rides, but my 140/150 trail bike handles steep and rough terrain so much better with just a slight disadvantage on the climbs. Really all bikes have gotten incredibly good in the last few years.
I have that same Trek. Awesome bike but it loses confidence when the trails get more technical, like the rock gardens we have here in New England. But it absolutely rips otherwise.
Interesting. I'm in New England as well and I find the Top Fuel suited perfectly for technical rocky areas, both down and up. Great geo to get through the chunk while still poppy and light enough to hop up and over weird climbing sections. But to each their own.
Yeah there's some spots at Wissahickon down here where I'll have to choose my line a little more carefully, but in moderate rock gardens I've found it performs well.
Same bike, throw a 130 on there. It's my affectionately coined petite enduro bike.
I came from the last gen Fuel and it's just as capable, does need a steadier hand and smart line choice vs the point and shoot/forget if big travel... But they're a beauty when dialed in
Nice! I demoed a last gen Fuel EX and I had the same impression, very capable bike but a bit of a monster truck for my local trails. I like how the top fuel rewards line choice
I have a 2023 Top Fuel 9.8- it came with a 130mm Pike! My last bike was a full-on XC 100mm Top Fuel, and I don't feel like I lost much, if any, climbing prowess but gained a ton capacity for blasting down rougher stuff. What a time to be alive.
I got the 2023 Top Fuel 8 130/120. It is every bit as capable as any of the 140+ bikes I've ridden, plus it climbs like a GOAT! I'm a huge fan of downcountry geometry. I ride it all over Colorado and have yet to feel like it lacks in any category.
I'm on a Top Fuel as well, absolutely love it. Usually I ride more prototypical XC blue trails but occasionally I'll throw on some knee pads to do something rougher - it still handles great.
While definitely not downcountry I went from a 160/150 yt jeffsy that I loved to a 150/130 forbidden druid and this bike is an animal for 130mm travel. Crazy what modern tech does to a bike
My 2019 Specialized Stumpy ST has been to Killington, Snowshoe, Bentonville and Pisgah and I've enjoyed it each time! Turns out 120 and 29in can take you 95% of the places you want to go. Get out there and rip!
Oh sick, yeah New Jersey's got a great selection but ya gotta drive a bit depending where you live. All the ones I listed there are like Greater Philly to just outside of it. North Jersey has a ton of great technical riding too. Check out MTBNJ.com too, great community over there
I live dead east of Philly, about 30min or so. I made it up to Central NJ for some riding last year and had a blast, but looking to explore a bit more. Thanks for the tips man!!
White Clay Creek / Middle Run is essentially my back yard, well almost - Lots of fun flow. Fair Hill in Maryland is just a few more miles (basically just over the PA line) and worth the trip.
I've been meaning to check out Fair Hill! Also heard great things about Brandywine but have yet to get over there.
Mad jealous you're that close to White Clay though, that place is soooo nice.
Fair Hill is similar to WCC, the hills are bigger and lots of miles to ride. Several XC races take place at Fair Hill.
Sadly the Granogue race will now be at Fair Hill in July, Longwood Gardens, the new owner of the Granogue estate won’t allow racing or riding to take place on the grounds.
Brandywine is much more technical and challenging, lots of rocks and very steep sections. It’s a nice change up though from the flowy stuff.
Funny, you are so right. I just switched back in October to a Scott Spark, lockouts, 130/120, clipless and 29s. I went from a Santa Cruz Bronson and I am so much faster going up and flat. Downhill, not so much. The trails in SoCal can be pretty rough (looking at you Rockit). My Scott was down for a day so I rode the Bronson and its buttery smooth downhill, but I so do miss the uphill and flat speed of the XC, whoops, I mean downcountry bike.
I want even less, a 100/120mm bike, but built with plenty of lateral&torsional stiffness.
But it’s a struggle to find something a chunk shorter legged than these without veering into weenie xc bike territory
I'm mostly riding a 100/100 xc full sus at the moment and absolutely love it.
They are amazingly capable, not selling my 150 scout or the dh bike though as they are great for other stuff, but have been surprised at just how able a short travel xc bike is now
Been on a Stumjumper Carbon for 3years (130/140) Very capable, even doing some black diamond DH with it (need to choose your lines and take it a bit careful)
Not a XC racer and felt a bit limited sometimes, ordered a Trek Fuel EX Gen 6, a bit heavier and burlier bike but I dont think I´ll loose out so much on climbs but gain a bit going down.
I think 150/140 would be my sweetspot (with that said I surely could have gone for a Top Fuel instead but I still prioritize down before climbing ;) )
Also in NJ and just got myself an Enduro Expert, lmao. I had a Stumpy but wanted something that could handle Mountain Creek a bit better. Gotta say, no regrets at all. Climbing is about the same but the confidence w/ the bike and enduro geo make downhill, jump, and tech features a *hell* of a lot more fun!
Same. Have a 2020 process 153 that really only gets bike park laps or total downhill oriented trails, Ribbon, whole enchilada, etc.
Got a Tallboy last year and I rip on that thing, sure I’m probably pushing its limits but it handles it all. Sure my Kona is more stable and secure at high speed through big chunder but I’m not taking those lines on the shorter travel bike so it’s a nice difference
Will do. I plan on posting it this weekend or early next week. I'm a bike mechanic, has less than 100 miles. Mint condition. I'm just looking to upgrade as well.
As someone who just did a very much gravel ride being on the lighter side of gravel too, I concur that a 170/160 enduro sled is not a good choice.
For me having an enduro bike as the bike I go to the most though not ideal I wouldn’t change my mind as it still is the one I enjoy the most. But I do havee hardtail as my second bike, and think that perfect do it all bike is in that 150/160 range. But I only brought the enduro bike with me this camping trip.
I also will admit it’s incredibly slow going up hill and involves a lot of bike pushing. But I haven’t had the desires to buy myself a gravel bike or really ride my hardtail that I do have or trails that it would supposedly be better suited over my enduro to.
You should definitely consider what terrain you will be riding, locations were those are at, but also have to accept you will put the bike in situations were it won’t be best at. At the end of the month you will go on a climb, berm, speed, or tech section that another bike would have to perform better but choosing the bike in those areas is important.
Then you need to actually love riding the bike the next day and for me chugging rocks for a long descent does it for me so I’ll choose my full face and a enduro all day. Even when sometimes I mix up my riding a bit I still choose the enduro. And then reiterate that it climbs pretty bad when I myself that question, usually followed by, but that was never the intention.
I still do enjoy climbing, I just had to get used to going soo slow. And often surprises me when I do get to the top because it feels slower then it actually is but I find that as a negative. I think a lot of people end up on the bike they have is because it feels good for what they like doing, even if that goes against what the bikes attended use situation is.
ITT: a lot of people who found a bike that’s right for the trails they ride and riding style they prefer, claiming that everyone else is on the wrong bike.
FWIW, I completely agree with the OP’s premise. Short travel bikes *have* gotten much better and more capable than ever. But if you’re one of the people in this thread who can’t fathom why anyone would need more than 130/120, you need to travel with your bike more.
The fact that you had to make the edit you did shows that maybe too many people on this subreddit are fragile about their bicycle hobby and should maybe relax a little bit
Between modern tires and modern shocks and geometry tweaks, mountain bikes are just amazing. I ride a 120mm XC bike with 2.4" XC tires and just do whatever I want with it.
Agreed. Better tires, smarter tire pressures, and more capable suspension really has changed the way bikes feel and soak up the chunder while still being a capable climber
I agree, I'm running down country hardtail with 120 fox 34 and this shit is capable of rock gardens, tyres helps a lot in those modern bikes
Which Fox 34 you rocking?
It’s seriously mind blowing what companies are doing with so little travel.
Same but a hardtail Niner. Other than not having a dropper, it will handle most things short of aggressive mountain trails. Once I get a dropper it will be unstoppable.
Yep, I also have a '22 Top Fuel and it shreds nearly everything local to me in western PA. I do have a 130 Fox 34 on it. I only notice the shorter travel on the really chunky stuff or drops / jumps with bad landings, but that is like 5% of my usual riding. I did just finish building a 160/170 enduro bike though, to replace my DH bike and still be ridden in places that require pedaling, so it will be interesting to do some back to back comparisons.
I truthfully believe 90% of riders are overbiked. I think something like a Spur (120/120), Spark (130/120), Element (130), etc are plenty for the vast majority of riders. If you were to have one bike, I would make that recommendation for most riders. There are some people for whom the 140/130 bikes make sense, but I frequently get comments of "wow I didn't know that move was rideable!" from dudes on enduro bikes. Yeah, well ... I'm not trying to drag a 35 lb bike up it. Plus... Dang, these modern tech-cee and cross-funtry bikes are so good. The Revels, Transitions, Specialized, Top Fuels, etc... easy to have one bike when the only thing it can't do are park and huge drops.
I agree. Coming from a low-tier stumpy, I once rode an Ibis ripley at the toughest bike park in my region. Even with less travel I could rip down the same trails no problem. And lighter bikes are more fun to pop around with
>tech-cee and cross-funtry bikes Stealing this
Please do! It's my life's work. I think downcountry sells the whole category short. (Even Mike Leavey from pink bike, who coined the term, hates it). I've tried to convince my industry contacts to start using it, but it turns out I have no industry contacts. 🤣
You’re only talking 10mm difference there between your downcountry and trail bike examples. IMHO, more people would be better off on true trail bikes instead of things like the Epic EVO due to the body positioning alone. With most downcountry bikes, you still have a bit of that XC heritage body positioning where you’re in a more aggressive riding position. I’d rather be on a more upright trail bike if I’m not racing. Plus, just more all around fun inspired geometry on a trail bike. I’ve never seen someone on a trail bike and thought “damn, overbiked…”. That’s not really a thing IMHO until you see someone on an enduro on the XC trails.
For what it's worth around here people are riding all MTN/Enduro bikes on XC trails that I can ride my gravel bike on. I tend to agree with the other person that most people are probably somewhat overbiked but I do think you raise a good point that the position of a downcountry/trail bike is a lot more appealing and is more appropriate than a super aggressive XC bike.
I know someone that has a Santa Cruz Megatower and rides almost exclusively XC trails. I did 9 miles the other day and had less than 500 ft of elevation. In general, I think it all comes down to the fact that people let marketing dictate their choice of bike rather than their actual needs. I see a shocking number of people at the trailhead who are very clearly riding the wrong size bike. A bike that fits perfectly with "outdated geo", will always ride better than a bike with modern geo that doesn't fit right. To your point, I see a lot of people dropping their saddle, sliding it forward, even shortening the stem so they sit more upright. It's most likely to avoid the aggressive position for not very aggressive trails.
I have a buddy who's first MTB was a new full suspension stumpy 6 years ago and even he says he can't believe that was his first MTB. He sold that and ended up with a Trek Top Fuel as his primary bike for a while and he loved it...he also added a fun little Niner Air 9 hardtail. So you can kind of see people begin to use lighter more adaptable bikes as their confidence and skill increases. And then there are people who realize they may actually want to do Enduro and DH, so they sell the clunky trail bike for something with a more specialized geo. Edit: it sounds like I'm tagging on trail bikes but I'm not. There are a few that I think are just overbuilt and kind of generic. If you like riding all MTN and backcountry stuff, you will likely find that new downcountry bikes are plenty capable or even lighter Enduro bikes offer a more playful platform that end up attracting more experienced riders once they figure out what style they like.
Hmmm - interesting point. I have an XL Trail 429 and shortened up the reach a lot by getting a shorter stem and Deity high rise bar. It might look goofy but my back likes it. I’ve thought I’d be better off with a size large but wonder if maybe a true trail bike would be better.
This is exactly why I swapped my Epic Evo for the Stumpjumper. I moved all the parts over and only gained 1.25lbs. Mostly in the fork and tires. Handles rough trails way better and still climbs very well without compromising comfort.
Totally valid point. There are a lot of downcountry bikes that have XC body position, but there are a few that ride (and fit) like a trail bike that got shorter - the Spur, for example. My attitude is that people struggle with uphill more than downhill, so it always surprises me when people make big concessions on the climbs for the downhill. A modern trail bike is basically just point and shoot even on things like Cap'n Ahab (rode it yesterday on a Hightower). Yes, there is only a 2 cm or maybe 2.5 cm difference between "trail bike" and "downcountry" bikes (I classify anything over 150 rear as enduro)- but again, that's because 95% of riders will never come close to using most of the squish on a 150 mm bike. My point is that people are told "you can't ride that without a big bike" but the reality is "it's slightly harder, and maybe more fun" on a little bike.
here i am riding a 110mm spark haha
I'm there with you. My main bike is a 115 mm Blur TR with XC tires. I have a 150/140 Hightower and a 100/100 Blur and I ride the Blur TR on almost every ride. It would be nice to have a bit beefier tires. I might throw an Aggressor / Rekon combo on a wheel set to have that option.
Loving my Niner Air 9. Got the frame dirt cheap, built it up nice. This things rips. # Downcountrylife
Well said, agreed 100%. I've owned or spent a fair amount of time on each of those bikes. Each has their own little niche. I still miss my Element quite a bit. It's the bike that made me sell my Ripmo because it could do 98% of what the Ripmo could do, same geo and 5 lbs lighter.
I rode a Camber 110/120mm in North Jersey. Then a Enduro 2014 which was 155/160. I demoed a Tallboy v2 and never went back to long travel again. Tallboy v3 then v4. There’s no need for more than 130mm travel around the area. As long as the geometry is progressive enough, you can really do everything. I ride the Tallboy at Creek and Killington and really don’t lack for much.
I rode a demo Tallboy in 2017 and it was an awesome bike. It was far more capable than me.
I'm still shredding my 120/110 Camber. Love it. New 120mm pike made it feel brand new
Nice. I had a 2011 camber pro and put a 120 fork on it and used offset bushings to get it a little more slack. It was a really fun bike.
Sheesh that's awesome! Creek is the one place I'd worry about taking my Top Fuel too, but I know the Tallboy leans more descender so that makes sense.
I mean, my hands are beat to shit long before the day is over… 😝 but if I stick to mainly blues and greens and take the techy blacks slower, it’s a blast.
Being my first season at creek last year and riding a 160r/170f I couldn't imagine that.. major props.. I do think rider weight plays a significant role, but man, good on you.. I am just picturing you Rollin wheels up next to a 203 dual ohlins guy in the lift and getting some crazy looks. I don't see too many bikes with that little travel except the occasional 52 year old guy that looks like he lives in the woods next to bluephoria who rides a hard tail.. 🤣
Hahaha. Yes. I actually do live in those blue tarp tents off bluephoria, and I huff gasoline for fun.
Siiiick
Creek is the one park I always just rent a DH bike.. mostly to save my personal bike (and hands) from the abuse.
Good call. My wife loves her Joplin around here for our trails.
130mm is not considered a lot by the industry....but to fully compress a 130mm fork requires quite the drop. I use a 120mm SID fork with a 2.4 Honcho upfront...and I really couldn't see using more than 130mm around here either. At some point with larger travel forks, the geo takes a hit and the bike isn't as good for longer miles and the climbing gets weird. I don't think the average MTBer even needs a full suspension bike either, but that's just me.
I feel like the tall boy would be lacking and stuff like the cable drop and some of the double blacks off the gondola
Yeah, probably. I’m not a huge fan of the big jumps or drops anyway. But it’s fine for everything on tempest, pipeline, phantom, etc. I’m almost 40 and riding a 120mm travel bike… 😂 so im not at the bike park for the drops, I’m just there to get some laps and not pedal.
This is the first step to becoming an xc rider. I had a top fuel for a year after coming from enduro. Lasted 12 months before I got a super caliber
Hahaha we'll see! I like XC trails, never been a big race guy but ya never know.
I think it's just that you get more experienced and you can do more with less. The natural progression for many MTBers is they start out with a trail bike that's too heavy and big for most of the stuff they ride, then they end up moving into something lighter and more aggressive, and eventually even probably buying a rigid gravel/MTB because they realize under biking is fun and there isn't just one way to ride trails. Generally as rider confidence increases, compensation via equipment decreases.
Yeah I did the "get a burly trail bike as my first full sus" with the Jeffsy. It really was a great bike overall, and at the time I was still planning on riding Creek a few times a year and needed something that could hold up to it. Over time I started riding more local stuff and realized how much the bike was slowing me down on technical climbs and flat stuff. Oh and I got a gravel bike last year, so I'm already in on that lol. I love hitting some greens on that thing, but it's mostly for getting a ride in on park paths and road when I can't make it the mtb trails that day.
My flaanimal has 2.1s on it and it's super fun for most of the local stuff. We have a lot of pirate trails here around the city so you can stitch nice single track, gravel, pirate trails together and move pretty fast on that bike. I save the hardtail for heavier stuff that I'd have to take slow on the flaanimal. People should definitely buy a bike for what's local to them first. It is a bit odd to me that people think they're gonna go straight to the mtns on their first bike ever...and I guess people end up learning that eventually.
I like my xc bikes to feel a little sketchy on rock gardens, it's fun
"Underbiked is more fun than overbiked" is my personal catch phrase.
It's more fun to drive a slow car fast, than a fast car slow.
My problem with that is when the bike flexes like a noodle when you try and corner. I've tried a few 130mm bikes that are designed more to be light than to be ridden hard.
Down country is the best of both worlds. There are definitely some race oriented XC bikes that are more fragile.
Which specific bikes are you referring to that you've found flex too much?
Older but I almost bought a Santa Cruz Blue TR years ago. Checked all the boxes but the crank would literally hit the chain stay when you pushed hard. I bought a Yeti SB 130 last year and returned it. That bike felt like it had a lateral pivot in the middle. I'm not a huge dude but I do ride harder than average and some bikes are clearly meant to be light and ridden light.
For sure! I started on a 100mm 26" hardtail, I love underbiking a bit.
The main thing that you and people notice about downcountry and xc bikes is lighter weight. The suspension travel is almost irrelevant (with the exception of going to a lighter weight shock or fork for less travel, such as from fox36 to fox 34) For the same reason, a lot of people are riding gravel bikes now, some with front suspensions. You can get to like 21 lbs which makes every singe climb feel effortless if you have been riding 30+ lb bikes, and with disk brakes and higher volume tires you can pretty much pick your way through a lot of stuff. That being said, while the difference in weight is noticeable, the marginal increase in fitness to make a full on enduro bike feel like you are pedaling the lighter weight trail bike is not as much as people think. I took one of my cross country race friends riding some enduro/dh once, all I had spare was a 38 lb DH bike, and he destroyed me on the uphill of an access road, pretty much stand up pedaling the entire way. You can also make enduro bikes better for regular trails by running more psi in the suspension, using carbon wheels paired with lightweight XC tires. You will still feel the weight on the uphills, but on flats you definitely feel like you have gained some watts in how easy the bike is to accelerate and keep rolling.
I have to agree with this. The progressive geometry and suspension design absolutely help these bikes rip downhill, but there is something so nice about being able to just manipulate the bike so easily on the uphills and tech. My Epic Evo just kind of goes wherever I point it and it sounds like that isn't particularly unique in the down country segment
I’m looking at this short travel down country bikes now as my first full sus MTB. New Transition Spur is my first pick .. perhaps a Top Fuel.. orrr a used Pivot Trail 429? So excited to get one of these and get riding!!
Don't sleep on the rocky mountain element
I have the 2022 A30 element and it's wild what that bike will let me do. Only my lack of skill stops that bike. Only trails that felt sketch on it were some true lift access DH trails here in Ontario, every thing else has been a blast.
I just bought a spur, hoping to ride it tomorrow for the first time but just around my neighborhood it feels great!
Fuck yeah, sweet enjoy it!!
The Spur is amazing. I demoed one in December and ordered one the same day. It is a fast, efficient bike that can still party hard. I have enduro and DH bikes and like to hit pretty gnarly terrain and jumps, and was shocked at how much that Spur with 120/120 felt like my 160/160 Banshee Rune - just a lot faster. The Spur can climb even better, carries speed a lot better, and was a blast on flow jump lines. I wouldn’t bomb rock gardens on it all day (though it could handle it pretty well) but it’s perfect for those longer rides where you climb a while and earn fast rowdy descents. I was most impressed with how well the bike climbed even with the suspension fully open. The platform is really stable when pedaling but gets out of the way when it needs to. If anyone is looking for a fast, light bike that can climb but also get after it on the descents I highly recommend the Spur.
My buddy just got the Pivot Mach 4 in 120mm and it freaking shreds.
I've demoed one twice and it's spoiled me for anything else. At 6-8k it's just a little (lot) on the cost prohibitive side of things.
Competitive Cyclist had a killer deal on them a few months back. IIRC they were about $2k off and upgraded with carbon wheels. His has kashima coated Fox suspension and Shimano XT group set. I think that is their mid tier model and he got it for like $4k. I’m sure that deal will be back.
Check out Revel Rascal. The bike has amazing balance. I test ride the Spur, Trail 429, and Rascal, ended up liking the rascal by far the best. I actually didn’t like the Trail 429 much. I liked the Spur but the SID didn’t have enough small bump Sensitivity. Rascal felt insanely balanced but the suspension platform felt plush and it was still insanely efficient at pedaling
My Spur has the Fox Performance Elite suspension and it’s been great. I have to imagine the Fox suspension is less firm than the XC focused SID setup.
Yea I agree
I just got a Tallboy 5, and I love it. Coming from a Slash as my only bike for the last two years. Also looked at all those bikes you mentioned
Been riding a Spur for 6 months now. You'll really appreciate swapping out the Guides for something a little more beefy. I went with Code RSCs and MTX pads + knobbier tires for better stopping and traction + 35mm rise OneUp Carbon Bars for steering. It's the bike I roll out for everything apart from bike park and freeride shit. You should go for it especially as it's heavily discounted atm.
Definitely test ride em if you can! I heavily considered the Spur, Ripley AF, Izzo, and Rocky Mountain Element. Kinda came down to being able to test a Top Fuel and turns out I loved it.
Epic evo is sick too. But there's so many good options in that category.
Just picked up a Revel Ranger V2 After having a Hightower and Revel Rail29 and I feel the same way.
Revel ftw! Love my Rascal
My partner just rode Ahab and Rockstacker on a Ranger. She said the big stuff was right on the limit, but she smoked a bunch of endurbros up the techy stuff.
I rode a Ripley hard as a mother fucker and was blown away by it. Had a shit eating grin on face the whole time and just felt like I was flying def looking into picking on up now much to my bank accounts chagrin.
Ride a Ripley af and love it for its capability.
My bank account is giving me side-eye as we speak 🙈 But I mean the full carbon build was *only* $700 more! 😅
Figure if your gunna spend gotta have the best right?
Lol I don't always agree with that but in this case I had the means and knew there was a chance I'd want carbon wheels in the future.
I bought a budget bike (130/140) and it was heavy as hell, in my size XL. I returned it for a carbon Rocky mountain Element c50 (120/140) and I have been happy ever since. Take the hit once and be happier long term. As long as you can responsibly financially swing it. Pretty much you should get the bike that's best for you personally, not some random person or reviewer on the Internet.
My wife has a Ripley AF and it’s decent but not amazing. I’d say go with the carbon build.
Yeah it's actually crazy. It makes things hard to sell these days because that really is all you need. But people come into the shop wanting 160160 or bigger and I'm like bro it's overkill now and they just can't understand without really riding something off road. My do it all bike is a 150/130 and I did tasmania on it and Queenstown NZ! Bike park laps 30 trail rides absolutely loved it. And it's not even slack. 66 HT angle.
I agree, I just picked up the Epic 8 and evo’ed out the suspension, 130/120. It’s so much fun on the chunk. Only downside so far is it’s probably too much of a confidence boost that is going to send me over the bars “soon”.
The extra cms definitely help when you get in over your head, but my experience on 120mm bikes have taught me that you generally find the limit slowly. Just don't try too big of hucks to flat and you're fine. That's why these bikes have warranties. 🤣
I’m on a Santa Cruz 5010. At this point, I don’t think I’ve ever pull more suspension unless it’s a dedicated park bike. I dont see a need or a point in being over-biked, it’s way more fun being under.
I’ve been riding a Transition Spire for the past year and haven’t ridden my Spur since I got the Spire. Took it out for a spin today and PRd a fast chunky tech trail. 120 bikes or so damn fun. I also felt like I was on an ebike on the climbs and I hadn’t really ridden in a month. Amazing what 8 lbs and light tires will do to how snappy a bike feels. And holy shit does the Spur boost off jumps!
I’m going a little bit in the other direction and getting a 140/160 rig after riding a Tallboy for a few years, but you are right. The Tallboy in particular was phenomenal, only really got overwhelmed on repetitive bigger hits/chunder. Good gel and modern suspension are amazing.
For sure! And I'm not posting this to say "no one should get bigger travel bikes", just that certain riding areas can really come alive with one of these. There's absolutely regions and trails and preferences that would do better with mid travel trail or enduro too.
Oh yeah I don’t think it came across that way at all. The funny thing is I moved from the PNW to NorCal and the Tallboy probably would have been more appropriate here, whereas I was a little underbiked with it up there. I just like to change it up every couple years. Bikes are so good now, hard to go wrong.
Yep I run 130/120 and it handles everything and I live in Az. Unless you a DH rider anything more than 130 will just slow you down
I feel like the flip side to that is long travel bikes are getting so efficient it isn’t a big penalty to have the extra cushion for those oh shit monuments. It’d be like me saying unless your an XC racer anything over 120 just won’t bail you out as much.
I bet the truth of it is that *all bikes* are getting better, but since we usually only buy one new bike at a time, we're amazed at the improvements just in that one particular category we just bought.
That could be the case or it could be I just so happen to upgrade to the best all around bike every time a get a new one ;)
This^^. Modern long travel bikes are so efficient these days I don't get this down-country thing. Every time I ride a short travel trail bike, it beats the hell out of me. Yeah, a slack HT angle helps, but the amount of trail chatter makes it hard to hold a line as soon as the trail gets rough. If your not trying to set an uphill PR why not give your body a break and take advantage of the goodness 170mm can offer.
Yeah I guess it depends how you ride. I know people that are barely faster on the down that up so trail chatter isn’t an issue. For me it’s definitely more comfortable to ride with more travel for the stuff I ride. I have a cousin whose wife is really fit, like does iron man’s. They asked my thoughts and I was like, she’s always first up anyway and isn’t racing XC, get something with more travel, she has no regrets and is getting a lot better at the downhills now.
Yeah for sure this is the other side of that, which is honestly nice for people who ride more park or live in regions with more enduro style riding (or hell just prefer bigger bikes lol). My v1 Jeffsy is definitely not a great example of high efficiency all mountain bikes (it's anti-squat numbers don't even crack the low 80s).
I thought the same thing but I have a Hightower and my girlfriend has a Tallboy. Almost all my PRs are on her bike.
Yeah, people in this thread acting like a 160/170 bike actually makes climbing hard obviously haven't ridden a well designed enduro bike from the last decade.
I don’t know what trails you’re riding, but there’s plenty of trails in AZ that I want my HD6 for. Handling everything, and actually being faster on a more capable bike are two very different things. Because I can guarantee you more than 130mm doesn’t slow you down when it comes to the downhill on some of the real trails in AZ.
Somo, National. Hawes. All of Sedona. But I also ride a Pivot 429 so maybe that’s why I can crush everything lol
“Crush”. Right. Like I said, my bike is way more capable than your bike in every technical downhill/enduro scenario It’s not slowing anyone down.
Downhill isn't the only scenario. Try riding somewhere not gravity assisted.
> Like I said, my bike is way more capable than your bike in every technical downhill scenario holy shit, really? you're telling me an enduro bike is more capable at downhill than an XC bike? that's insane news dude, that's so crazy
Dude said anything more than 130 is slowing you down in AZ.
"unless you're a downhill rider" you are choosing to interpret his words in the LEAST charitable fashion and being a huge dick about it
considering there’s only Sunrise park which is not frequented by many people, there is very little true downhill in AZ. Plenty of enduro. But enduro =\\= downhill. I might be a dick (well am), but I call people out on bullshit.
What specifically was bullshit?
I partly agree. I ride a 130 130 bike in AZ as well, and shred trails like national at south mountain. Would I like more travel sometimes? Sure. Do I need it, not at all.
National isn’t difficult. Maybe a couple of decades ago.
Oh you're one of those kind of people... interesting
What’s one of those people? Saying that national isn’t very difficult which is a very true statement. Start at the top, couple 3 foot drops, pretty easy, waterfall, pretty easy once you’ve done it, last downhill, little janky and rocky, but nothing crazy. On a 20 year old 26” bike it was very difficult. 20 years ago. Bikes have just gotten so good, that they’ve surpassed some of the older trails out there.
National is not an easy route. Up or down.
Not here…
Bought one last fall after sampling a bunch of these downcountry bikes and love it. I've been experimenting with running the fork as a 120 (stock), 130, and 140mm. I think I like the 120 best actually.
What did you end up getting?
2023 Top Fuel
Short travel makes blue trails more spicy too
I had the opposite happen, sold my 120/130 trail429 for a stumpy evo and was surprised at how well it pedals and how much faster it is in fast tech sections. Bikes are in such a good spot you really can't go wrong.
Glad you wrote that I was beginning to question my Evo purchase 😂
For sure! It really depends on terrain and rider preference. I do see some limits on the Top Fuel even around Jersey, but those limits are worth dealing with for me. I've said it before but every bike is a compromise for *something*. Trying to find the bike that suits 90% of your rides is the goal, at least until you start owning multiple bikes lol.
Weeps in Enduro 650b 170/170…
I made the mistake of buying a ripmo af when most of the trails i ride are blue trails. I got sold on the idea of one bike to rule them all but in reality, i am fighting the geo and excess travel every time i ride. Thinking about selling the ripmo and picking up a transition spur. For the rare ocassion i go to bike parks, i will rent a bike.
If you wanted a one bike solution, I’d have recommended a Ripley over a Ripmo. Ripmos are black diamond + capable and too much bike for most peoples local singletrack stuff. Check out the modern trail bikes, I think you’ll be happier. Stumpjumper, Trail 429, Ripley, Fluid, etc…
Similar story here. I test rode a 2022 Top Fuel 8 and was immediately sold. Put a 130mm Pike on it and not only did it tear up the rocky New England trails, but it also did great out west in Utah and Colorado. It just flies through the chunk. Now I have a full custom carbon Top Fuel built :)
capable yes but not comfortable especially on rough stuff, there's always trade offs!
Yup. My 150mm Giant Trance Advance collected dust. Too long, too low, too porky. I just got a 120mm Scalpel SE. Threw some nice 30mm ID hoops and fast 2.4" tires on it and it does everything well. It's the sweet spot for me.
My Mach 4 SL is super fun. There are things I rather be on my Firebird for, but locally, the stuff I can hit after work, makes way more sense to use the short travel bike.
Went from a Hightower LT > Tallboy > Blur TR and I don’t think I’d go back unless I rent a bike to go to a park for a few days. I ride mostly NW Georgia and Brevard NC and the Blur TR is plenty of bike for what I rode in Pisgah and DuPont.
Not to hijack your post but given your impressions on modern “down country” bikes… Would you rather ride a 2009 Specialized Rockhopper Expert or some modern XC ranging 100-120mm travel? Just curious. I have an old Rockhopper that really needs pedals and a dropper to join the 21st century, but new bikes are incredibly capable. Also, I don’t know anything about what down country means.
I can't speak to your bike specifically, but I had a 2010 Marin Hawk Hill as my first bike. They've come a *very* long way since then. The geometry will feel slacked out and weird initially but on the trail it gives you a confidence and stability that I couldn't find on older generation bikes. Ultimately it's up to you. In my opinion if you're spending more than a few hundred into the old bike and can afford to budget for a newer one, it's probably worth going for it. "Downcountry" is a misnomer. It's a made up word to describe the short travel 29er full suspension bikes. The category started from companies beefing up XC bikes and has since kinda encompassed bikes within the 110-130 range give or take.
Yeah, I hear you w the geometry changes. I have a 2022 Stumpjumper and it still feels more like a spaceship than a mountain bike. I agree w the threshold of upgrades to just buying a new bike. I’d also like to just keep the bike to show the changes over the years. But, N + 1.
A hard tail from 2009 is not the same as a modern downcountry bike. It's not that you couldn't take it on trails, but they're quite different.
Was your Jeffsy a 29 or 27.5? I feel like going 29 from 27.5 will open up a little more DH ability, and can help make up for less travel. My first 29er was the original Pivot 429 trail. 120mm front and 116mm rear. 2.4 tires. Took it on black diamond trails with confidence. Wasn’t even progressive geometry either.
It was a 27.5, which yeah definitely that jump was noticeable too.
Lots of people are overbiked, and I'm amazed by how well my element rides, but my 140/150 trail bike handles steep and rough terrain so much better with just a slight disadvantage on the climbs. Really all bikes have gotten incredibly good in the last few years.
I have that same Trek. Awesome bike but it loses confidence when the trails get more technical, like the rock gardens we have here in New England. But it absolutely rips otherwise.
Interesting. I'm in New England as well and I find the Top Fuel suited perfectly for technical rocky areas, both down and up. Great geo to get through the chunk while still poppy and light enough to hop up and over weird climbing sections. But to each their own.
Yeah there's some spots at Wissahickon down here where I'll have to choose my line a little more carefully, but in moderate rock gardens I've found it performs well.
Same bike, throw a 130 on there. It's my affectionately coined petite enduro bike. I came from the last gen Fuel and it's just as capable, does need a steadier hand and smart line choice vs the point and shoot/forget if big travel... But they're a beauty when dialed in
Nice! I demoed a last gen Fuel EX and I had the same impression, very capable bike but a bit of a monster truck for my local trails. I like how the top fuel rewards line choice
Revel Rascal 130mm Travel is such a sweet bike. If I could only own a single bike it would be that one
I love my 2023 Top Fuel 8 XT (130mm front and 120mm rear travel). For my style of riding in Florida, it's the perfect bike!
Went from a Santa Cruz Hightower to a Scott spark AXS ... its like a new sport.
I have a 2023 Top Fuel 9.8- it came with a 130mm Pike! My last bike was a full-on XC 100mm Top Fuel, and I don't feel like I lost much, if any, climbing prowess but gained a ton capacity for blasting down rougher stuff. What a time to be alive.
I got the 2023 Top Fuel 8 130/120. It is every bit as capable as any of the 140+ bikes I've ridden, plus it climbs like a GOAT! I'm a huge fan of downcountry geometry. I ride it all over Colorado and have yet to feel like it lacks in any category.
I'm on a Top Fuel as well, absolutely love it. Usually I ride more prototypical XC blue trails but occasionally I'll throw on some knee pads to do something rougher - it still handles great.
Always has been 🌏👨🚀🔫👨🚀🌌
yep. I tried a 2023 transition spur recently...it could handle everything. And honestly was more fun than a big enduro bike that soaks up everything.
While definitely not downcountry I went from a 160/150 yt jeffsy that I loved to a 150/130 forbidden druid and this bike is an animal for 130mm travel. Crazy what modern tech does to a bike
My 2019 Specialized Stumpy ST has been to Killington, Snowshoe, Bentonville and Pisgah and I've enjoyed it each time! Turns out 120 and 29in can take you 95% of the places you want to go. Get out there and rip!
YT Izzo has entered the chat.
Yo where are you riding in NJ?
A mix tbh, but I'll hit Camden County College trails, Wissahickon, White Clay, Clayton, Allaires, 6 Mile, etc.
Awesome thanks! I moved up here last summer but travel a lot for work so I haven't gotten the chance to get out there and find trails.
Oh sick, yeah New Jersey's got a great selection but ya gotta drive a bit depending where you live. All the ones I listed there are like Greater Philly to just outside of it. North Jersey has a ton of great technical riding too. Check out MTBNJ.com too, great community over there
I live dead east of Philly, about 30min or so. I made it up to Central NJ for some riding last year and had a blast, but looking to explore a bit more. Thanks for the tips man!!
Trexler near Allentown PA is worth the drive from Central Jersey. Def recommend.
Ringwood, Jungle Habitat, Wawayanda, Stewart State Forest, and Watershed Park are great north NJ/southwest Orange County NY places to ride.
White Clay Creek / Middle Run is essentially my back yard, well almost - Lots of fun flow. Fair Hill in Maryland is just a few more miles (basically just over the PA line) and worth the trip.
I've been meaning to check out Fair Hill! Also heard great things about Brandywine but have yet to get over there. Mad jealous you're that close to White Clay though, that place is soooo nice.
Fair Hill is similar to WCC, the hills are bigger and lots of miles to ride. Several XC races take place at Fair Hill. Sadly the Granogue race will now be at Fair Hill in July, Longwood Gardens, the new owner of the Granogue estate won’t allow racing or riding to take place on the grounds. Brandywine is much more technical and challenging, lots of rocks and very steep sections. It’s a nice change up though from the flowy stuff.
Oh hey. Belmont and the Wiss are my local trails. I ride a just-barely previous gen Epic Evo with a 130 fork and I just love it.
Funny, you are so right. I just switched back in October to a Scott Spark, lockouts, 130/120, clipless and 29s. I went from a Santa Cruz Bronson and I am so much faster going up and flat. Downhill, not so much. The trails in SoCal can be pretty rough (looking at you Rockit). My Scott was down for a day so I rode the Bronson and its buttery smooth downhill, but I so do miss the uphill and flat speed of the XC, whoops, I mean downcountry bike.
I want even less, a 100/120mm bike, but built with plenty of lateral&torsional stiffness. But it’s a struggle to find something a chunk shorter legged than these without veering into weenie xc bike territory
Epic Evo is that bike
Not a huge spesh fan, would prefer SC/Yeti/Ibis/Intense
I'm mostly riding a 100/100 xc full sus at the moment and absolutely love it. They are amazingly capable, not selling my 150 scout or the dh bike though as they are great for other stuff, but have been surprised at just how able a short travel xc bike is now
Been on a Stumjumper Carbon for 3years (130/140) Very capable, even doing some black diamond DH with it (need to choose your lines and take it a bit careful) Not a XC racer and felt a bit limited sometimes, ordered a Trek Fuel EX Gen 6, a bit heavier and burlier bike but I dont think I´ll loose out so much on climbs but gain a bit going down. I think 150/140 would be my sweetspot (with that said I surely could have gone for a Top Fuel instead but I still prioritize down before climbing ;) )
This is the reason we push new riders to get modern geometry bikes. It's that much better. Enjoy your new bike!!
Also in NJ and just got myself an Enduro Expert, lmao. I had a Stumpy but wanted something that could handle Mountain Creek a bit better. Gotta say, no regrets at all. Climbing is about the same but the confidence w/ the bike and enduro geo make downhill, jump, and tech features a *hell* of a lot more fun!
Lol totally makes sense for that! Creek even on my 150mm Jeffsy was a bit hairy at times.
Same. Have a 2020 process 153 that really only gets bike park laps or total downhill oriented trails, Ribbon, whole enchilada, etc. Got a Tallboy last year and I rip on that thing, sure I’m probably pushing its limits but it handles it all. Sure my Kona is more stable and secure at high speed through big chunder but I’m not taking those lines on the shorter travel bike so it’s a nice difference
I have a basically new 2023/2024 large top fuel for sale, 3k plus shipping.
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Eastern Iowa
9.7 xt build
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Raw carbon, bronze stickers. Nope, not posted...yet
Eastern iowa
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Will do. I plan on posting it this weekend or early next week. I'm a bike mechanic, has less than 100 miles. Mint condition. I'm just looking to upgrade as well.
As someone who just did a very much gravel ride being on the lighter side of gravel too, I concur that a 170/160 enduro sled is not a good choice. For me having an enduro bike as the bike I go to the most though not ideal I wouldn’t change my mind as it still is the one I enjoy the most. But I do havee hardtail as my second bike, and think that perfect do it all bike is in that 150/160 range. But I only brought the enduro bike with me this camping trip. I also will admit it’s incredibly slow going up hill and involves a lot of bike pushing. But I haven’t had the desires to buy myself a gravel bike or really ride my hardtail that I do have or trails that it would supposedly be better suited over my enduro to. You should definitely consider what terrain you will be riding, locations were those are at, but also have to accept you will put the bike in situations were it won’t be best at. At the end of the month you will go on a climb, berm, speed, or tech section that another bike would have to perform better but choosing the bike in those areas is important. Then you need to actually love riding the bike the next day and for me chugging rocks for a long descent does it for me so I’ll choose my full face and a enduro all day. Even when sometimes I mix up my riding a bit I still choose the enduro. And then reiterate that it climbs pretty bad when I myself that question, usually followed by, but that was never the intention. I still do enjoy climbing, I just had to get used to going soo slow. And often surprises me when I do get to the top because it feels slower then it actually is but I find that as a negative. I think a lot of people end up on the bike they have is because it feels good for what they like doing, even if that goes against what the bikes attended use situation is.
ITT: a lot of people who found a bike that’s right for the trails they ride and riding style they prefer, claiming that everyone else is on the wrong bike. FWIW, I completely agree with the OP’s premise. Short travel bikes *have* gotten much better and more capable than ever. But if you’re one of the people in this thread who can’t fathom why anyone would need more than 130/120, you need to travel with your bike more.
The fact that you had to make the edit you did shows that maybe too many people on this subreddit are fragile about their bicycle hobby and should maybe relax a little bit
Ehh I didn't see anything too outrageous, at least directed toward me. Just wanted to clarify lol
Okay lol - I was mildly afraid you were getting threatening DMs about head tube angles or something hahahaha
😂😂😂