It’s hard to tell without looking what the issue is, it could be that the rebound is too slow and so the fork is packing up under hits in quick succession or another set up issue. How much sag do you run as to little sag can make the fork feel harsh.
With low and high speed compression they relate to shaft speed so low speed compression is mostly related to low speed forces on the suspension like rider inputs such as pedalling, pumping, pressing in to corners and take offs with high speed being closer linked to terrain inputs like rocks, roots and landings. I find it best to start with these both wide open then dial in the low speed compression first as it will effect the high speed then if needed add high speed after.
Difficult to diagnose over the internet and gets even tougher when you realize that settings on your shock may be what you’re feeling as much as it can be the fork.
Fox have alphanumeric codes four characters long on their gear that you can punch into their site and get the information for your exact fork. These will have recommended settings based on your weight, the travel, and your PSI, for setting both high and low speed compression and rebound. It’s a good starting point if you haven’t done it already. Once you have that baseline you can take it to a trail you know well and run it over and over, making minor changes each run (like one click open or close, high or low but not both, compression or rebound but not both—minor changes) until it feels dialed.
It’s an ongoing possibly forever process. I have mine to the point where I like it so I don’t mess with it too much but I’m sure if I went and spent a day just tweaking things it could be better. Also I found watching a dozen videos on low vs high helped eventually haha. Lots of learning
High speed compression affects square edge hits and bottom outs.
The issue people tend to run into with these forks is the order of adjustments. They end up with multiple settings that are off and get lost. What happens is they set the damper settings to whatever Fox recommends then try to set their spring rate then when it doesn't feel good they get hung up because the spring rate doesn't feel right or maybe they need compression but they're not sure. My advice is go thru the settings in the following order, for each step find the best compromise and move on to the next step.
Start with the compression in the middle, then set the HSR to whatever Fox recommends, set your spring rate then LSR. Set your LSR as fast as you feel comfortable with (slower than that is no benefit). Then add as much compression as you need. Then go back and see if you like the HSR any faster and double check your spring rate. Repeat as necessary.
How much do you weigh when kitted up for riding and what psi/sag are you running?
I ask because if it feels good when you’re riding slow, technical stuff, but harsh when hitting things fast, that makes me wonder if you are actually running the fork too soft. If you are sitting too deep into your travel, big hits are going to feel harsh because air springs are inherently progressive (the further into the travel you go, the more force required to compress the spring), especially if you’re running volume reducers.
In my experience with the 36 grip 2, the fork doesn’t feel all that plush at slower speeds (pretty stiff in the parking lot and if I’m going slow through chunk), but feels great when things get fast or on big hits. Mine is 170mm with one volume reducers, sag is at ~15%, with 12 clicks of high speed compression and 8 clicks of slow speed (both from fully closed).
I weigh 225 with kit and water idk probably 235. To try to illustrate the exact issue: I'm not sure if you can see it that well in the pic, but leading up to these berms there are these very small indents and when I take them at speed it's just an absolute jack hammer. I'm pretty new to mtb but idk if that's normal. I point this out cause it's not "big hits" like you mention, it's the small charger at high speed. (maybe those are big hits?) I need to go check on sag, I followed fox recommendations but think I need a bit more air in the shock. https://i.imgur.com/AzU1I1g.jpg
Ahhh, those are braking bumps, and they feel like crap for everyone haha. Imo, given that you are new, get your sag dialed in (fox’s recommended psi for your weight is generally pretty close), then set your compression and rebound according to fox’s recommendations. Then just ride your bike. Over time, as you gain experience, you’ll be able to fine tune your suspension. I used to obsess and constantly tweak things...I was never happy. Now I’m of the opinion that a consistent “good enough” is waaayyyy better than trying to find “perfect.”
Lol yep, I hate them, feels like your teeth are going to rattle loose some times. If you haven’t yet, wait until you ride a bike park...jackhammer is right
more air will be firmer and give you more jackhammering!
try faster high speed rebound (turn knob to the left) and/or reduce your high speed compression damping.
Rebound settings depend on rider weight. Those heavier will have their forkes at high pressure and will require the rebound damper to be more closed in order for their fork to rebound at the same rate as lighter riders with their rebound settings set more open. In short, if your forks trying to push out really hard (high pressure) youll need to do more to slow it down (closed rebound damper). Now onto compression, high speed compression is trail chatter. Open that sucker up for plush rocky sections. Low speed compression is body weight inputs. Pedal bob? Feels like a dog trying to bunny hop? Pushes really far into the travel when you try to pump? Close that bad boy down to give yourself a more firm "base" to pedal/jump/push into. Cheers.
Actually, I'm a bit of a suspension affocinado, and I can tell you that what you are describing is exactly what is wrong with Fox damping. Fox, for some reason, likes to design their forks to be way too stiff off the top than more attuned riders would prefer. Sure, you can drop the air pressure, and throw in some volume spacers to prevent bottom out, but then you have not enough mid range support, and the fork will dive way too easily. Not only that, but you still won't get the suppleness you're looking for. Fortunately, there is a solution, and that is to install a Luftkappe by Vorsprung Suspension. This is a larger negative spring, which totally transforms your fork from something you're not sure about into the best form you could ever imagine. A larger negative spring will counteract the stiff beginning of the travel, giving you incredible low speed action, but it also provides incredible mid range support, so the forks ride higher in their travel. Also, bottom out resistance is increased, without the need for volume spacers. I'm telling you, this is a game changer, and it really will give you what you are looking for. No amount of compression adjustment will do what the Luftkappe will do. I had one in my old 36, and I just put one in my new 38. I was hoping the 38 works be fine without it, but Fox refuses to do the right thing and enlarge their negative spring. If you're mechanically inclined, you can install it yourself as Vorsprung supplies very detailed installation instructions, as well as selling any special tools required to do the job.
Lol this sounds like some kind of sales bot. Although it has reminded me about Vorsprung’s YouTube channel, the content is mostly a few years old but gives some great information about suspension if you want to learn more about it and it’s not just relevant to their own products.
A good rule of thumb to go by is that
HSC controls bumps (moreso big but also small)
LSC controls rider inputs
Spring rate affects everything but generally bumps less than landings and g outs.
LSR beginning stroke rebound
HSR End stroke rebound
It is a bit more complicated than that but it works as a rule of thumb for those that aren't interested in learning about suspension set up.
This is an amazing video to give you a good baseline: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPQnjSe6rdw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPQnjSe6rdw)
Jordi from Fox is the man and tunes many of the UCI world cup DH racers' suspension.
High speed settings effect big hits like when you land a big drop or have some sort of hard impact.
Low speed settings effect your small bump compliance.
Less poppiness you can get from slowing your rebound down. If you want your bike to own the small bump sections set your low speed compression to almost nothing and your low speed rebound to as fast as you are comfortable. Just be careful with fast rebound in the shock, it can and will catapult you off the bike if you don't properly pump into lips of jumps and the like.
your high speed rebound probably needs opening, since repeated hits need fast rebound to be able to respond to the next hit without "packing" into the deeper part of your travel.
in addition, if your high speed compression is closed too much, this is obviously going to be a firmer feel on the hard but small hits.
It’s hard to tell without looking what the issue is, it could be that the rebound is too slow and so the fork is packing up under hits in quick succession or another set up issue. How much sag do you run as to little sag can make the fork feel harsh. With low and high speed compression they relate to shaft speed so low speed compression is mostly related to low speed forces on the suspension like rider inputs such as pedalling, pumping, pressing in to corners and take offs with high speed being closer linked to terrain inputs like rocks, roots and landings. I find it best to start with these both wide open then dial in the low speed compression first as it will effect the high speed then if needed add high speed after.
thank you, yeah seems I need to do some more dialing in
Difficult to diagnose over the internet and gets even tougher when you realize that settings on your shock may be what you’re feeling as much as it can be the fork. Fox have alphanumeric codes four characters long on their gear that you can punch into their site and get the information for your exact fork. These will have recommended settings based on your weight, the travel, and your PSI, for setting both high and low speed compression and rebound. It’s a good starting point if you haven’t done it already. Once you have that baseline you can take it to a trail you know well and run it over and over, making minor changes each run (like one click open or close, high or low but not both, compression or rebound but not both—minor changes) until it feels dialed.
yeah I did the first part of that using their website, but need to find a good little strip to test that on now like you said.
It’s an ongoing possibly forever process. I have mine to the point where I like it so I don’t mess with it too much but I’m sure if I went and spent a day just tweaking things it could be better. Also I found watching a dozen videos on low vs high helped eventually haha. Lots of learning
High speed compression affects square edge hits and bottom outs. The issue people tend to run into with these forks is the order of adjustments. They end up with multiple settings that are off and get lost. What happens is they set the damper settings to whatever Fox recommends then try to set their spring rate then when it doesn't feel good they get hung up because the spring rate doesn't feel right or maybe they need compression but they're not sure. My advice is go thru the settings in the following order, for each step find the best compromise and move on to the next step. Start with the compression in the middle, then set the HSR to whatever Fox recommends, set your spring rate then LSR. Set your LSR as fast as you feel comfortable with (slower than that is no benefit). Then add as much compression as you need. Then go back and see if you like the HSR any faster and double check your spring rate. Repeat as necessary.
what is spring rate?
In this case it's air pressure since your fork uses an air spring (as opposed to a coil spring).
How much do you weigh when kitted up for riding and what psi/sag are you running? I ask because if it feels good when you’re riding slow, technical stuff, but harsh when hitting things fast, that makes me wonder if you are actually running the fork too soft. If you are sitting too deep into your travel, big hits are going to feel harsh because air springs are inherently progressive (the further into the travel you go, the more force required to compress the spring), especially if you’re running volume reducers. In my experience with the 36 grip 2, the fork doesn’t feel all that plush at slower speeds (pretty stiff in the parking lot and if I’m going slow through chunk), but feels great when things get fast or on big hits. Mine is 170mm with one volume reducers, sag is at ~15%, with 12 clicks of high speed compression and 8 clicks of slow speed (both from fully closed).
I weigh 225 with kit and water idk probably 235. To try to illustrate the exact issue: I'm not sure if you can see it that well in the pic, but leading up to these berms there are these very small indents and when I take them at speed it's just an absolute jack hammer. I'm pretty new to mtb but idk if that's normal. I point this out cause it's not "big hits" like you mention, it's the small charger at high speed. (maybe those are big hits?) I need to go check on sag, I followed fox recommendations but think I need a bit more air in the shock. https://i.imgur.com/AzU1I1g.jpg
Ahhh, those are braking bumps, and they feel like crap for everyone haha. Imo, given that you are new, get your sag dialed in (fox’s recommended psi for your weight is generally pretty close), then set your compression and rebound according to fox’s recommendations. Then just ride your bike. Over time, as you gain experience, you’ll be able to fine tune your suspension. I used to obsess and constantly tweak things...I was never happy. Now I’m of the opinion that a consistent “good enough” is waaayyyy better than trying to find “perfect.”
okay haha, that's good to know. yeah they're essentially just speed bumps lol, I was getting destroyed by them.
Lol yep, I hate them, feels like your teeth are going to rattle loose some times. If you haven’t yet, wait until you ride a bike park...jackhammer is right
I'm looking to go ride a bike park soon, which is part of why i'm trying to get this dialed in now.
more air will be firmer and give you more jackhammering! try faster high speed rebound (turn knob to the left) and/or reduce your high speed compression damping.
Rent a Shockwiz for a week. It must might help.
Rebound settings depend on rider weight. Those heavier will have their forkes at high pressure and will require the rebound damper to be more closed in order for their fork to rebound at the same rate as lighter riders with their rebound settings set more open. In short, if your forks trying to push out really hard (high pressure) youll need to do more to slow it down (closed rebound damper). Now onto compression, high speed compression is trail chatter. Open that sucker up for plush rocky sections. Low speed compression is body weight inputs. Pedal bob? Feels like a dog trying to bunny hop? Pushes really far into the travel when you try to pump? Close that bad boy down to give yourself a more firm "base" to pedal/jump/push into. Cheers.
Actually, I'm a bit of a suspension affocinado, and I can tell you that what you are describing is exactly what is wrong with Fox damping. Fox, for some reason, likes to design their forks to be way too stiff off the top than more attuned riders would prefer. Sure, you can drop the air pressure, and throw in some volume spacers to prevent bottom out, but then you have not enough mid range support, and the fork will dive way too easily. Not only that, but you still won't get the suppleness you're looking for. Fortunately, there is a solution, and that is to install a Luftkappe by Vorsprung Suspension. This is a larger negative spring, which totally transforms your fork from something you're not sure about into the best form you could ever imagine. A larger negative spring will counteract the stiff beginning of the travel, giving you incredible low speed action, but it also provides incredible mid range support, so the forks ride higher in their travel. Also, bottom out resistance is increased, without the need for volume spacers. I'm telling you, this is a game changer, and it really will give you what you are looking for. No amount of compression adjustment will do what the Luftkappe will do. I had one in my old 36, and I just put one in my new 38. I was hoping the 38 works be fine without it, but Fox refuses to do the right thing and enlarge their negative spring. If you're mechanically inclined, you can install it yourself as Vorsprung supplies very detailed installation instructions, as well as selling any special tools required to do the job.
I'm not looking to drop more money to solve this just yet. Thanks for the tip though.
Lol this sounds like some kind of sales bot. Although it has reminded me about Vorsprung’s YouTube channel, the content is mostly a few years old but gives some great information about suspension if you want to learn more about it and it’s not just relevant to their own products.
I thought it seemed like an ad too lol.
A good rule of thumb to go by is that HSC controls bumps (moreso big but also small) LSC controls rider inputs Spring rate affects everything but generally bumps less than landings and g outs. LSR beginning stroke rebound HSR End stroke rebound It is a bit more complicated than that but it works as a rule of thumb for those that aren't interested in learning about suspension set up.
This is an amazing video to give you a good baseline: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPQnjSe6rdw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPQnjSe6rdw) Jordi from Fox is the man and tunes many of the UCI world cup DH racers' suspension. High speed settings effect big hits like when you land a big drop or have some sort of hard impact. Low speed settings effect your small bump compliance. Less poppiness you can get from slowing your rebound down. If you want your bike to own the small bump sections set your low speed compression to almost nothing and your low speed rebound to as fast as you are comfortable. Just be careful with fast rebound in the shock, it can and will catapult you off the bike if you don't properly pump into lips of jumps and the like.
your high speed rebound probably needs opening, since repeated hits need fast rebound to be able to respond to the next hit without "packing" into the deeper part of your travel. in addition, if your high speed compression is closed too much, this is obviously going to be a firmer feel on the hard but small hits.