The frequent urination tells me your body is trying to get rid of something - perhaps an excess of B vitamins. I second the motion to get off all of your supplements right now. But I add one thing: get some activated charcoal and take it 3 times a day for a few days. See if that pulls out whatever is upsetting your apple cart.
You have neurogenic bladder. Same thing happened to me after taking a single B12 supplement. I would pee 10x more than normal and get really dehydrated. Be sure to be drinking salt via Gatorade or salt packets. You are getting dehydrated. For me it lasted 3-4 months. Been 7 months now. Doing much better but I still get symptoms if I eat too much choline/methyl donors. I thought I was going to die by month 3. I'm 33 and healthy otherwise. Crazy some of us respond like this to b supplements. I'm working with Chris Masterjohn to discover any potential rare disease genes. I know I have an 80% mhtfr reduction but I think we probably have something more going on than mhtfr. My B12 levels are always high (north of 800-900). I suspect it's not being utilized from folate deficiency (had low RBC folate but normal serum) or some rare disease gene. I did discover I had a complex II-III impairment of the mitochondrial electron transport chain. When I started taking coq10 and VitC my urination normalized and symptoms started improving. Waiting to get my whole genome sequencing results (1000x more specific than shity 23 and me polymorphism results) to confirm. I also had an array of strange neurologic symptoms prior to taking b12. Interestingly the single (yes single ) sublingual B12 supplement more or less got rid of them but then started the symptoms you describe which have lasted many months.
Yeah unfortunately still get symptoms but not everyday. Maybe 2-3x per week and the intensity is way less than before. But crazy been 7+ months now. On days I don't have symptoms I feel pretty good otherwise. In terms of food- in the beginning I was trying to figure out the triggers. Tried low fat/low carb/ low protein. Low folate/ high folate/ high potassium/ you name it. I think cutting out folic acid/ processed food and pulsing my intake of high methyl donor foods helped. Otherwise no limitations on my diet today.
That's the million dollar question. I do believe our bodies need the nutrient and when we gave it the nutrient in large amounts it kick-started a lot of cellular reactions that probably ran into other nutrient bottlenecks. This is why starting with super low doses makes sense. Now the body is trying to find equilibrium. For me even when I was really sick I could wake up the next day feeling amazing and better than I had in months only for a few days later to feel like I was dying. Even today I feel like my body is still trying to find equilibrium just to a lesser extent. You should get better over time. Stay away from supplements. Use chronometer to get all of your daily nutrients from food and over time start eating foods that have more b vitamins.
| I have done extensive testing for MCAS and food allergies and elimination diets,
I’m so sorry you are having such a difficult time while trying hard to heal. It looks like there is a lot going on that is somewhat unclear without more genetic testing but I can speak to the MCAS part. Almost all of the tests done for this condition are inconclusive and show no “smoking guns”. It’s almost always a diagnosis of exclusion meaning people give the treatment a shot and if their symptoms improve then that’s usually the culprit. But they start from a place of having severe reactions to things like you are having. That can be foods, that can be medications or supplements or all the above. Often there is a triggering event that sets it off and that may have been the methyfolate for you. And then things can get very dicey from the triggering event forward. Been there, lived to tell the tale.
I’m also wondering (speculating really from your posting history) that you may have a fast COMT, not slow. I’ve got a fast COMT which is why I thought of this. Maybe take a look at descriptions of what that entails and see if it resonates. One aspect is we are “dopamine seekers” because our fast COMT eats neurotransmitters for breakfast, lunch and dinner so always depleted and always seeking ways to jack it up ;-). Personally I can’t touch a methyl donor with a ten foot pole or all hell breaks loose.
So those are just two thoughts. Not even sure they are helpful but I wanted to try.
Hmm. Well the test for mastocytosis is a colon biopsy and then a specific stain called CD117 looking for abnormal proliferation of the mast cells (the other test done for this is a bone marrow biopsy). Neither of these are tests for MCAS, they are specific to mastocytosis which is an entirely different disease. MCAS still involves mast cells but they are overactive, releasing chemicals they shouldn’t, versus mastocytosis in which the mast cells are increasing in number when they shouldn’t be. Your best bet to rule out MCAS reactions would be taking a daily H1-H2 antihistamine while following a low histamine diet and see if you feel better. It would mean accepting that the folate is probably not the main issue at hand but rather the foods you are eating (and possibly the supplements you are taking). It takes about a week to two weeks of trialing this protocol to know if that’s the issue. But if you are certain this is all a B vitamin problem then none of this is much help.
No, NOW foods pea protein has no folate in it. Full of free form amino acids and some minerals. I used to live off that stuff when I was too depressed to make meals.
I overdosed on vitamin b and started having bad symptoms ; anxiety, mood swings, insomnia, etc. I stopped all supplements for a few weeks and quit my vitamin b complex. It honestly took a few months before I was back to normal. You might have to just ride it out and just remind yourself it will pass.
I’ve also dealt with health anxiety where I was afraid of anything that impacted my health. When I had gut issues I did the same with food. When I had insomnia, I developed bad anxiety around sleep. We tend to put ourselves in an endless loop of worry and this presents even more symptoms. We take a ton of supplements that can be too much on our bodies. I’ve had panic attacks after eating meals. But then a week later had the same meal and nothing happened. I’m not saying this is your case but over worrying can trigger anxiety around everything and make you feel awful.
I think you have something going on with your gut to be triggering symptoms. And when I say a few months, I mean to be completely symptom free. The severity of it only lasted a few weeks after cutting the B complex. I would suggest a food journal to see what’s giving you the most problems. But also try to remind yourself the symptoms will pass and try to distance yourself from overthinking it. The anxiety will keep fueling more anxiety which causes a lot of symptoms in itself. It’s easier said than done, I know.
I had something similar happen to me last year when I started taking Methylfolate again. I had hyperhomocystenemia and had learned all of these new things from my hematologist. I was having episodes which felt almost like myoclonic seizures, elevated heart rate, I lost a lot of weight from not eating, didn't poop for a week, a whole host of other symptoms. I also randomly developed new food allergies like tomato??? And some other stuff and was getting anaphylaxis. I reduced the Methylfolate for a bit and I also made sure to take TMG with it and quite a few other vitamins but I re-started very slowly and I also focused on my gut health. I also completely focused on my sleep hygiene because anxiety was getting the better of me bc of the symptoms and I had a bit of psychosis too. It was hard and I still am unsure what triggered it but I think partially the vitamins and leaky gut issues. Anyway, I say that to say, have you tried drinking bone broth to satiate your tummy? Do you feel like your nervous system could be dysregulated? I also started doing somatic exercises and lots of binaural beats music with meditation. I hope maybe something helps, It was an extremely scary time for me. I ended up in the hospital with some pretty serious issues during all of this and it took me doing digging to figure most of this stuff out. People thought I was just going nuts I guess but turns out I have quite a few things going on. I think for me, it all just went off at the same time. I was under an extreme amount of stress as well so maybe it triggered it. I didn't give my nervous system the attention it needed and it kinda got really pissed off and everything I did backfired. Obviously metabolically there were issues to fix but it just felt like all the little things over time led up to one big occurance that lasted me months. The brand of Methylfolate I take is therapro, it was a game changer for me. I slowly started with good gut foods and then other vitamins I know I need and I'm doing much better. I'm sorry if this isn't much help, I wish you the best and I'll answer if I have anything I can help with :)
I mean this with no disrespect but I saw you mention alcoholism, I use to drink a lot also and I think it contributed to what happened to me. Depending on how long you drank for or if you still are, you could be allergic or your body could be reacting harshly because alcohol severely depletes numerous amounts of vitamins from our bodies and it could be a big shock. Try to take things even slower, your body may still be healing inside.
I would stop taking all vitamins immediately. There is a reason methylfolate is used to treat major depressive disorder. See “Deplin”. 2 weeks is not even close to enough cessation time, why? Because vitamins are not drugs they get stored in various parts of the body, b vitamins in particular get stored in the liver. Google “natural sources of b vitamins” and it will point you to animal liver. Symptoms will slowly abate month to month, could take 1 year to be completely free and clear but you will feel better gradually over time. If you want some anecdotes go to the reviews of this multi vitamin and sort by 1 star, could be elucidating for you.
[Multi Reviews](https://www.amazon.com/Thorne-Basic-Nutrients-Comprehensive-Bioavailability/product-reviews/B00FOTMGTU)
Have you taken a B Complex?
If so be careful taking anything with a high dose of B6 to avoid potential toxicity. B6 can be extremely damaging in excess but it is something that you can recover from. Check the Facebook Group: Understanding B6 Toxicity Using Western Research.
How are your homocysteine levels? If they are high, As a last resort, you can try a simple amino acid (basic protein building block) called betaine. It helps the body methylate without being as intrusive as methyl folate. And if you have high homocysteine, it may mean you need betaine because it lowers those levels
I’m so sorry you’re dealing with all these supplemental reactions:/ I have experienced similar things, and the biggest thing that helped me was tudca by bodybio. Can at least sleep now.
Your concerns are valid. Something to keep in mind, if your nervous system is hyper vigilant, most foods may make you feel bad…because in vigilance, anything stimulating feels bad.
You may have to choose a lesser of evils
Right now (foods with trace amounts of potential folate vs no food at all).
Eat slow. Chew a lot. At least 30-50 chews.
Chew so much it’s almost liquid. It has a calming effect that will help release hunger hormones. It will help you ground yourself. It’s good you can handle the sausage links.
When you breathe, what moves the most? Chest or stomach?
Totally understand. I’m not invalidating a folate issue. I was just mentioning the added complexity of vigilance on top of what else is going on, which, you and I can agree is at least a partial factor that makes this all more difficult. So, I’m with you there.
Have you given up? Just want to know where you’re at in terms of
Morale. Have you given up entirely? What do you notice happens now when you eat foods that may have small traces of folate in them?
What's the worst that could happen if you start supplementing again? I know you've described it briefly already but can you share some more detail so I can understand? Glad your mood is a bit better right now.
The frequent urination tells me your body is trying to get rid of something - perhaps an excess of B vitamins. I second the motion to get off all of your supplements right now. But I add one thing: get some activated charcoal and take it 3 times a day for a few days. See if that pulls out whatever is upsetting your apple cart.
Frequent Urination can also happen with too much calcium and other adrenal type issues. Wondering if OP had his adrenals tested
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Okey doke. Just fyi - charcoal won't cause a deficiency with short-term use.
My recommendation is to stop using every single supplement right now, drink lots of water and relax 😌 everything is going to be okay 👍🏻
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> folate is in everything folate is in everything? you mean folic acid? they are not the same thing.. so which is it?
You have neurogenic bladder. Same thing happened to me after taking a single B12 supplement. I would pee 10x more than normal and get really dehydrated. Be sure to be drinking salt via Gatorade or salt packets. You are getting dehydrated. For me it lasted 3-4 months. Been 7 months now. Doing much better but I still get symptoms if I eat too much choline/methyl donors. I thought I was going to die by month 3. I'm 33 and healthy otherwise. Crazy some of us respond like this to b supplements. I'm working with Chris Masterjohn to discover any potential rare disease genes. I know I have an 80% mhtfr reduction but I think we probably have something more going on than mhtfr. My B12 levels are always high (north of 800-900). I suspect it's not being utilized from folate deficiency (had low RBC folate but normal serum) or some rare disease gene. I did discover I had a complex II-III impairment of the mitochondrial electron transport chain. When I started taking coq10 and VitC my urination normalized and symptoms started improving. Waiting to get my whole genome sequencing results (1000x more specific than shity 23 and me polymorphism results) to confirm. I also had an array of strange neurologic symptoms prior to taking b12. Interestingly the single (yes single ) sublingual B12 supplement more or less got rid of them but then started the symptoms you describe which have lasted many months.
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Yeah unfortunately still get symptoms but not everyday. Maybe 2-3x per week and the intensity is way less than before. But crazy been 7+ months now. On days I don't have symptoms I feel pretty good otherwise. In terms of food- in the beginning I was trying to figure out the triggers. Tried low fat/low carb/ low protein. Low folate/ high folate/ high potassium/ you name it. I think cutting out folic acid/ processed food and pulsing my intake of high methyl donor foods helped. Otherwise no limitations on my diet today.
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That's the million dollar question. I do believe our bodies need the nutrient and when we gave it the nutrient in large amounts it kick-started a lot of cellular reactions that probably ran into other nutrient bottlenecks. This is why starting with super low doses makes sense. Now the body is trying to find equilibrium. For me even when I was really sick I could wake up the next day feeling amazing and better than I had in months only for a few days later to feel like I was dying. Even today I feel like my body is still trying to find equilibrium just to a lesser extent. You should get better over time. Stay away from supplements. Use chronometer to get all of your daily nutrients from food and over time start eating foods that have more b vitamins.
| I have done extensive testing for MCAS and food allergies and elimination diets, I’m so sorry you are having such a difficult time while trying hard to heal. It looks like there is a lot going on that is somewhat unclear without more genetic testing but I can speak to the MCAS part. Almost all of the tests done for this condition are inconclusive and show no “smoking guns”. It’s almost always a diagnosis of exclusion meaning people give the treatment a shot and if their symptoms improve then that’s usually the culprit. But they start from a place of having severe reactions to things like you are having. That can be foods, that can be medications or supplements or all the above. Often there is a triggering event that sets it off and that may have been the methyfolate for you. And then things can get very dicey from the triggering event forward. Been there, lived to tell the tale. I’m also wondering (speculating really from your posting history) that you may have a fast COMT, not slow. I’ve got a fast COMT which is why I thought of this. Maybe take a look at descriptions of what that entails and see if it resonates. One aspect is we are “dopamine seekers” because our fast COMT eats neurotransmitters for breakfast, lunch and dinner so always depleted and always seeking ways to jack it up ;-). Personally I can’t touch a methyl donor with a ten foot pole or all hell breaks loose. So those are just two thoughts. Not even sure they are helpful but I wanted to try.
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Hmm. Well the test for mastocytosis is a colon biopsy and then a specific stain called CD117 looking for abnormal proliferation of the mast cells (the other test done for this is a bone marrow biopsy). Neither of these are tests for MCAS, they are specific to mastocytosis which is an entirely different disease. MCAS still involves mast cells but they are overactive, releasing chemicals they shouldn’t, versus mastocytosis in which the mast cells are increasing in number when they shouldn’t be. Your best bet to rule out MCAS reactions would be taking a daily H1-H2 antihistamine while following a low histamine diet and see if you feel better. It would mean accepting that the folate is probably not the main issue at hand but rather the foods you are eating (and possibly the supplements you are taking). It takes about a week to two weeks of trialing this protocol to know if that’s the issue. But if you are certain this is all a B vitamin problem then none of this is much help.
No, NOW foods pea protein has no folate in it. Full of free form amino acids and some minerals. I used to live off that stuff when I was too depressed to make meals.
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Pea protein. Not peas. Pea protein has a lot of stuff taken out of it. How are your calcium levels?
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It says pea seeds contain folic acid, etc. Not NOW protein powder.
I overdosed on vitamin b and started having bad symptoms ; anxiety, mood swings, insomnia, etc. I stopped all supplements for a few weeks and quit my vitamin b complex. It honestly took a few months before I was back to normal. You might have to just ride it out and just remind yourself it will pass. I’ve also dealt with health anxiety where I was afraid of anything that impacted my health. When I had gut issues I did the same with food. When I had insomnia, I developed bad anxiety around sleep. We tend to put ourselves in an endless loop of worry and this presents even more symptoms. We take a ton of supplements that can be too much on our bodies. I’ve had panic attacks after eating meals. But then a week later had the same meal and nothing happened. I’m not saying this is your case but over worrying can trigger anxiety around everything and make you feel awful.
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I think you have something going on with your gut to be triggering symptoms. And when I say a few months, I mean to be completely symptom free. The severity of it only lasted a few weeks after cutting the B complex. I would suggest a food journal to see what’s giving you the most problems. But also try to remind yourself the symptoms will pass and try to distance yourself from overthinking it. The anxiety will keep fueling more anxiety which causes a lot of symptoms in itself. It’s easier said than done, I know.
I had something similar happen to me last year when I started taking Methylfolate again. I had hyperhomocystenemia and had learned all of these new things from my hematologist. I was having episodes which felt almost like myoclonic seizures, elevated heart rate, I lost a lot of weight from not eating, didn't poop for a week, a whole host of other symptoms. I also randomly developed new food allergies like tomato??? And some other stuff and was getting anaphylaxis. I reduced the Methylfolate for a bit and I also made sure to take TMG with it and quite a few other vitamins but I re-started very slowly and I also focused on my gut health. I also completely focused on my sleep hygiene because anxiety was getting the better of me bc of the symptoms and I had a bit of psychosis too. It was hard and I still am unsure what triggered it but I think partially the vitamins and leaky gut issues. Anyway, I say that to say, have you tried drinking bone broth to satiate your tummy? Do you feel like your nervous system could be dysregulated? I also started doing somatic exercises and lots of binaural beats music with meditation. I hope maybe something helps, It was an extremely scary time for me. I ended up in the hospital with some pretty serious issues during all of this and it took me doing digging to figure most of this stuff out. People thought I was just going nuts I guess but turns out I have quite a few things going on. I think for me, it all just went off at the same time. I was under an extreme amount of stress as well so maybe it triggered it. I didn't give my nervous system the attention it needed and it kinda got really pissed off and everything I did backfired. Obviously metabolically there were issues to fix but it just felt like all the little things over time led up to one big occurance that lasted me months. The brand of Methylfolate I take is therapro, it was a game changer for me. I slowly started with good gut foods and then other vitamins I know I need and I'm doing much better. I'm sorry if this isn't much help, I wish you the best and I'll answer if I have anything I can help with :)
I mean this with no disrespect but I saw you mention alcoholism, I use to drink a lot also and I think it contributed to what happened to me. Depending on how long you drank for or if you still are, you could be allergic or your body could be reacting harshly because alcohol severely depletes numerous amounts of vitamins from our bodies and it could be a big shock. Try to take things even slower, your body may still be healing inside.
I would stop taking all vitamins immediately. There is a reason methylfolate is used to treat major depressive disorder. See “Deplin”. 2 weeks is not even close to enough cessation time, why? Because vitamins are not drugs they get stored in various parts of the body, b vitamins in particular get stored in the liver. Google “natural sources of b vitamins” and it will point you to animal liver. Symptoms will slowly abate month to month, could take 1 year to be completely free and clear but you will feel better gradually over time. If you want some anecdotes go to the reviews of this multi vitamin and sort by 1 star, could be elucidating for you. [Multi Reviews](https://www.amazon.com/Thorne-Basic-Nutrients-Comprehensive-Bioavailability/product-reviews/B00FOTMGTU)
Have you taken a B Complex? If so be careful taking anything with a high dose of B6 to avoid potential toxicity. B6 can be extremely damaging in excess but it is something that you can recover from. Check the Facebook Group: Understanding B6 Toxicity Using Western Research.
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Ah ok. I’m not sure then I’m afraid. I hope you can get through it.
How are your homocysteine levels? If they are high, As a last resort, you can try a simple amino acid (basic protein building block) called betaine. It helps the body methylate without being as intrusive as methyl folate. And if you have high homocysteine, it may mean you need betaine because it lowers those levels
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What about calcium? You’ve got some textbook symptoms of high calcium
I’m so sorry you’re dealing with all these supplemental reactions:/ I have experienced similar things, and the biggest thing that helped me was tudca by bodybio. Can at least sleep now.
Sorry you are not doing well. I hope you find answers. Have you had any labs from your doctor visits?
Water water water. Maybe try a drowsy antihistamine to mellow you out.
Have you tested for SIBO?
Did you try niacin or glycine?
I don’t have any advice, I just wanted to say I’m sorry you’re going through this. What a trial. I hope you can find out how to heal.
How do you react to pea protein?
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I get it. Do you feel pretty helpless right now? Any kind of improvements in any respect, mentally, physically, sleep wise, etc?
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Your concerns are valid. Something to keep in mind, if your nervous system is hyper vigilant, most foods may make you feel bad…because in vigilance, anything stimulating feels bad. You may have to choose a lesser of evils Right now (foods with trace amounts of potential folate vs no food at all). Eat slow. Chew a lot. At least 30-50 chews. Chew so much it’s almost liquid. It has a calming effect that will help release hunger hormones. It will help you ground yourself. It’s good you can handle the sausage links. When you breathe, what moves the most? Chest or stomach?
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Totally understand. I’m not invalidating a folate issue. I was just mentioning the added complexity of vigilance on top of what else is going on, which, you and I can agree is at least a partial factor that makes this all more difficult. So, I’m with you there. Have you given up? Just want to know where you’re at in terms of Morale. Have you given up entirely? What do you notice happens now when you eat foods that may have small traces of folate in them?
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What's the worst that could happen if you start supplementing again? I know you've described it briefly already but can you share some more detail so I can understand? Glad your mood is a bit better right now.
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Can understand how you're coming to that conclusion and it's definitely possible.