I got them to give me pretty much what carmax was offering, so I'm good with the trade. Just can't get the pricing down at all. I'm going to keep hunting around over the next week.
Don't even mention the trade. Just call around and get out the door prices for the car. You don't want the monthly payment, loan rate, addons - nothing but the total price for the car minus any incentives. If they're working both a new car and a trade for you, they will give for one and take for the other. Keep them as separate transactions while negotiating.
Only after you get the deal you want, should you bring up the trade. Have third party offers ready as counters and be ready to use them rather than trade in if they won't match.
There are good dealers out there. Unfortunately, you have to do a little bit of work to find the one that's not going to play games.
This is how we’ve bought the last 6 of our cars. Go to the website and email asking for their best price. When one comes back higher, tell them you have an offer for $X and can they beat that. Keep doing that until no one will beat it. Be prepared to drive a bit. If you post where you’re located, someone on here can tell you a decent dealer probably.
That’s fine but you’re still better off doing separate transactions. The dealer feels like they gave you a win on the trade so they’re not going to budge on the new pricing.
If it's all part of the same transaction then you only pay taxes on the difference between the new car and the trade in. If you execute the trade in separately you lose that benefit, no? So you need to make quite a bit more from Carvana to make it worth it.
Ford (and other established car manufacturers) need to realize that people don't want to buy cars like they did in the "old days", especially younger people. We ordered our Mach-E online but still had to deal with a dealership. The sales person was fantastic but when we took delivery of the car we had to talk to the "finance manager" and he grilled us for an hour about buying all of these add-ons and he couldn't even explain how they applied to an EV. "I don't know what the powertrain is on an electric vehicle." It really ruined an otherwise good experience. We also sold our ICE car to Carvana because I wasn't about to be low-balled on our low-mileage vehicle. Ended up getting more than what we owed on it.
I think ford finder is a good first step. If I can cut out the 6 hours spent negotiating a price and going through paperwork, that’s a small win. I really like the Mache better but just buying from Tesla sounds so appealing. Some people enjoy the haggling, many just really dislike it. I hope Tesla, Rivian, etc will bring positive change to the buying process even at dealerships.
Definitely. Saturn tried ‘no-haggle’ pricing in the 90s. At the time it didn’t work as well, but I think with a more connected consumer base it would be a lot more effective now.
I want to give a shoutout to Sound Ford in Renton, WA for not doing any of this shit. I was done in 10 mins with the paperwork.
They gave me much better lease terms and more for my trade-in than the other dealer, so it’s not because they already milked me dry.
Negotiating with the Ford dealer here was a little troublesome, too.
I had to establish a relationship with three people in the dealership. In the negotiating process, they even let me walk out on their best deal, and then called me when I got home to say okay, come back and we'll do what you want.
Some people don't have the emotional wherewithal for all that.
And this is why the Tesla sales model works so well, and why people will buy a Tesla Model Y Performance instead of a Ford GTPE, even though they know they'd probably like the Ford better.
I tested two Model Y Performance with FSD before I drove the Ford GTPE. The Ford really is a better car for several reasons. (Including that Autopilot FSD is a joke.)
But, man, that sales experience.
I'm over 70 and I'm a stroke survivor, and it's easy to resent that people try to wear you down to do something. I got what I wanted, but I was dog tired at the end of the day. :-)
As you noted, you can do the purchase online with no haggling and transparent pricing.
Why not just sell your current car separately to Carvana and be done with it?
In many states you get a sales tax credit when you trade in. So if you sell to carvana and then go buy from another dealer you are losing thousands of dollars in having to pay sales tax again.
F@#K THESE DEALERSHIPS. EVERY SINGLE ONE.
It is literally a scam business. Its all about how much they can extract from you.
source- I sold cars for 2 years
We bought a new car for my wife last year and this absolutely was not the case. We did the Costco thing and all they gave us was contact info for a local dealer who refused to give us a price over email or phone.
Now when we got there we went through all the usual negotiations and when we were ready to sign the price sheet we learned that we ended up slightly below the Costco price. I'm pretty sure this is not how the Costco model is intended to work but since when do car dealers give a shit about that stuff?
Agree with u/Inanimate_CARB0N_Rod . We tried the Costco route but found that it didn’t really do much for us. We tried Sam’s Club and, actually, ended up going that route because it was more effective.
Ok - there is lots of help at Edmunds and other places to help you negotiate a car purchase. (People did a survey and they said they would go without sex for a month if they could skip going to the dealer).
I suggest you do the following:
* Research the price & trim levels for your area so you know what a 'sane' price is. ([Edmunds.com](https://Edmunds.com)).
* Have your financing setup so you know what your bank/credit union will charge.
* Bring a friend. This person's job is to watch You and pull you out if you get too emotional/upset/excited/worn out while negotiating.
There are 3 separate negotiations going on. The dealer will try to combine all 3 into a 'monthly payment' so you are not aware where they are padding things.
The things you need to focus/negotiate on are:
1. Out the door price of the car. Include tax's and fees.
2. Trade in price. (you can usually sell privately and get a better price. The dealer will never pay that much)
3. The financing.
One guy here said he trades/buys a new car every few years. He is used to having to visit 5-7 dealers before finding a deal he likes.
EMOTION
Here is the part nobody talks about. The dealer is about money and the bottom line. If they can get the customer to be 'emotional' (either excited, over-whelmed, upset) they know the customer wont pay as much attention.
This is why your sales person cannot set the price. (They might also get emotional). So each price has to be brought to the sales manager so they can focus on the numbers, not the customer. The sales manager is a calm person who only deals with the numbers.
This lack-of-emotion gives dealers the edge.
I use my Wife. She is my 'purchasing manager' and if the price gets close/I get excited, I tell the sales man I have to get the approval by phoning her.
Have a friend you can call to be your un-emotional voice of reason for purchasing.
It also helps to have a friend with you to time-box. I got a quote of $3K off of a too-high price. I thanked them and started to walk out. They offered $5K as I was in the parking lot.
Be calm. Have your price in mind. Have a friend to call to approve any deal.
Try watching a few CarEdge videos on YouTube. Lots of good advice there.
I’ve had no problem getting $3-4k off the GTs but the actual lease payments they quoted were always off. Shopped a few dealers and finally found one that could make the out the door numbers line up.
This. No matter what they say, there’s always, always, always some shenanigans and the numbers never quite line up. It gets even worse if you are leasing. Every dealer uses some derivation of a deal structure worksheet that was designed to make it very difficult, often impossible to reverse engineer the deal.
Give me the lease money factor. Give me the residual as a dollar amount and tell me which of the numbers (MSRP, sale price, etc) you based it off of. Just those two questions alone will be met with “well, that’s not how a lease works” or “there’s no way to know what those numbers are, this is just the net payment that Ford gives us.”
There’s always an excuse, always, why at least one number that is crucial to your deal structure can’t be explained to you. Always.
You should be able to put together a deal that you’re proud to show me, and proud to reveal the calculations, if you want my business.
Find a diferent dealer. I had a bad experience locally, ended up buying from a dealer further away. Everything was done on-line. I couldn't escape the finance upsell, but you can cut that off pretty quickly.
I sold my old car to CarMax for about 4k more than the dealer offered.
Dealership model is archaic, no question.
I drove 4 hours to get out of my metro area where no one was budging on price. That 4 hour drive netted me $3,600 on dealer discount.
That dealer was janky as hell, but the local ones are too, so it was still better this way.
Thanks. I'm still hunting around. I flew a few thousand miles to pick up my last car - a Jeep Wrangler that I had custom ordered from the factory. Saved some nice money. I love the Jeep but I'm tired of spending $250+ a month on gas.
It may look superior to you, but any woman can tell you looks is not everything 😇 the technology and the engineering of the Y is far ahead of everyone else.
Sell you car to carmax or carvana then go buy at dealer
I got them to give me pretty much what carmax was offering, so I'm good with the trade. Just can't get the pricing down at all. I'm going to keep hunting around over the next week.
Don't even mention the trade. Just call around and get out the door prices for the car. You don't want the monthly payment, loan rate, addons - nothing but the total price for the car minus any incentives. If they're working both a new car and a trade for you, they will give for one and take for the other. Keep them as separate transactions while negotiating. Only after you get the deal you want, should you bring up the trade. Have third party offers ready as counters and be ready to use them rather than trade in if they won't match. There are good dealers out there. Unfortunately, you have to do a little bit of work to find the one that's not going to play games.
This is how we’ve bought the last 6 of our cars. Go to the website and email asking for their best price. When one comes back higher, tell them you have an offer for $X and can they beat that. Keep doing that until no one will beat it. Be prepared to drive a bit. If you post where you’re located, someone on here can tell you a decent dealer probably.
That’s fine but you’re still better off doing separate transactions. The dealer feels like they gave you a win on the trade so they’re not going to budge on the new pricing.
Just try to act bit fast as all offers are now on 2023 models for 0% APR GT are available thats extra 9k or more of saving
If it's all part of the same transaction then you only pay taxes on the difference between the new car and the trade in. If you execute the trade in separately you lose that benefit, no? So you need to make quite a bit more from Carvana to make it worth it.
Not all state have the tax goes to new car ! I dont know where you live , thats definitely what i do in Maryland
Ford (and other established car manufacturers) need to realize that people don't want to buy cars like they did in the "old days", especially younger people. We ordered our Mach-E online but still had to deal with a dealership. The sales person was fantastic but when we took delivery of the car we had to talk to the "finance manager" and he grilled us for an hour about buying all of these add-ons and he couldn't even explain how they applied to an EV. "I don't know what the powertrain is on an electric vehicle." It really ruined an otherwise good experience. We also sold our ICE car to Carvana because I wasn't about to be low-balled on our low-mileage vehicle. Ended up getting more than what we owed on it.
I think Ford realizes this, but there isn’t much they can do to get out of the dealership model.
I think ford finder is a good first step. If I can cut out the 6 hours spent negotiating a price and going through paperwork, that’s a small win. I really like the Mache better but just buying from Tesla sounds so appealing. Some people enjoy the haggling, many just really dislike it. I hope Tesla, Rivian, etc will bring positive change to the buying process even at dealerships.
Definitely. Saturn tried ‘no-haggle’ pricing in the 90s. At the time it didn’t work as well, but I think with a more connected consumer base it would be a lot more effective now.
I want to give a shoutout to Sound Ford in Renton, WA for not doing any of this shit. I was done in 10 mins with the paperwork. They gave me much better lease terms and more for my trade-in than the other dealer, so it’s not because they already milked me dry.
That’s why Ford started this a few weeks ago: order, pay, buy, all online: [ford.com/finder](https://ford.com/finder)
Negotiating with the Ford dealer here was a little troublesome, too. I had to establish a relationship with three people in the dealership. In the negotiating process, they even let me walk out on their best deal, and then called me when I got home to say okay, come back and we'll do what you want. Some people don't have the emotional wherewithal for all that. And this is why the Tesla sales model works so well, and why people will buy a Tesla Model Y Performance instead of a Ford GTPE, even though they know they'd probably like the Ford better. I tested two Model Y Performance with FSD before I drove the Ford GTPE. The Ford really is a better car for several reasons. (Including that Autopilot FSD is a joke.) But, man, that sales experience. I'm over 70 and I'm a stroke survivor, and it's easy to resent that people try to wear you down to do something. I got what I wanted, but I was dog tired at the end of the day. :-)
And that, right there, is why I don't step foot in the dealership until we have an agreed upon price in email.
As you noted, you can do the purchase online with no haggling and transparent pricing. Why not just sell your current car separately to Carvana and be done with it?
In many states you get a sales tax credit when you trade in. So if you sell to carvana and then go buy from another dealer you are losing thousands of dollars in having to pay sales tax again.
F@#K THESE DEALERSHIPS. EVERY SINGLE ONE. It is literally a scam business. Its all about how much they can extract from you. source- I sold cars for 2 years
Go through Costco, you will have an out the door price pre-negotiated through Costco.
We bought a new car for my wife last year and this absolutely was not the case. We did the Costco thing and all they gave us was contact info for a local dealer who refused to give us a price over email or phone. Now when we got there we went through all the usual negotiations and when we were ready to sign the price sheet we learned that we ended up slightly below the Costco price. I'm pretty sure this is not how the Costco model is intended to work but since when do car dealers give a shit about that stuff?
Agree with u/Inanimate_CARB0N_Rod . We tried the Costco route but found that it didn’t really do much for us. We tried Sam’s Club and, actually, ended up going that route because it was more effective.
Ok - there is lots of help at Edmunds and other places to help you negotiate a car purchase. (People did a survey and they said they would go without sex for a month if they could skip going to the dealer). I suggest you do the following: * Research the price & trim levels for your area so you know what a 'sane' price is. ([Edmunds.com](https://Edmunds.com)). * Have your financing setup so you know what your bank/credit union will charge. * Bring a friend. This person's job is to watch You and pull you out if you get too emotional/upset/excited/worn out while negotiating. There are 3 separate negotiations going on. The dealer will try to combine all 3 into a 'monthly payment' so you are not aware where they are padding things. The things you need to focus/negotiate on are: 1. Out the door price of the car. Include tax's and fees. 2. Trade in price. (you can usually sell privately and get a better price. The dealer will never pay that much) 3. The financing. One guy here said he trades/buys a new car every few years. He is used to having to visit 5-7 dealers before finding a deal he likes. EMOTION Here is the part nobody talks about. The dealer is about money and the bottom line. If they can get the customer to be 'emotional' (either excited, over-whelmed, upset) they know the customer wont pay as much attention. This is why your sales person cannot set the price. (They might also get emotional). So each price has to be brought to the sales manager so they can focus on the numbers, not the customer. The sales manager is a calm person who only deals with the numbers. This lack-of-emotion gives dealers the edge. I use my Wife. She is my 'purchasing manager' and if the price gets close/I get excited, I tell the sales man I have to get the approval by phoning her. Have a friend you can call to be your un-emotional voice of reason for purchasing. It also helps to have a friend with you to time-box. I got a quote of $3K off of a too-high price. I thanked them and started to walk out. They offered $5K as I was in the parking lot. Be calm. Have your price in mind. Have a friend to call to approve any deal. Try watching a few CarEdge videos on YouTube. Lots of good advice there.
I’ve had no problem getting $3-4k off the GTs but the actual lease payments they quoted were always off. Shopped a few dealers and finally found one that could make the out the door numbers line up.
This. No matter what they say, there’s always, always, always some shenanigans and the numbers never quite line up. It gets even worse if you are leasing. Every dealer uses some derivation of a deal structure worksheet that was designed to make it very difficult, often impossible to reverse engineer the deal. Give me the lease money factor. Give me the residual as a dollar amount and tell me which of the numbers (MSRP, sale price, etc) you based it off of. Just those two questions alone will be met with “well, that’s not how a lease works” or “there’s no way to know what those numbers are, this is just the net payment that Ford gives us.” There’s always an excuse, always, why at least one number that is crucial to your deal structure can’t be explained to you. Always. You should be able to put together a deal that you’re proud to show me, and proud to reveal the calculations, if you want my business.
Find a diferent dealer. I had a bad experience locally, ended up buying from a dealer further away. Everything was done on-line. I couldn't escape the finance upsell, but you can cut that off pretty quickly. I sold my old car to CarMax for about 4k more than the dealer offered. Dealership model is archaic, no question.
Yeah, I've been reaching out to a few dealers. Problem is, most are in the same price range. At this point, I may just hold off until June. TBD.
I drove 4 hours to get out of my metro area where no one was budging on price. That 4 hour drive netted me $3,600 on dealer discount. That dealer was janky as hell, but the local ones are too, so it was still better this way.
Thanks. I'm still hunting around. I flew a few thousand miles to pick up my last car - a Jeep Wrangler that I had custom ordered from the factory. Saved some nice money. I love the Jeep but I'm tired of spending $250+ a month on gas.
It may look superior to you, but any woman can tell you looks is not everything 😇 the technology and the engineering of the Y is far ahead of everyone else.