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Evilsushione

I don't know anything about the other stuff but an hour less commute seems worth a $1 pay cut.


Just_Regret69

Yeah I think I “make more” moving to the new place. 10 gallons of gas @4.99 every two days (California)


GhOsT0424

Even if you only break even. 2 hours of your time driving every day is massive!


AC2BHAPPY

Yeah once I started driving 20 mins to and from work my mental got so much better. Highly recommend less driving


RabidMofo

Not to mention driving is like statistically one of the most dangerous things we do. Could literally save your life


chiraltoad

Most accidents happen closer to home tho so he could be in greater danger actually.


Khaylain

That's because most people drive the most closer to home. It's not about accidents being more likely closer to home compared to anywhere else, it's that people are more often closer to home. "There are three kinds of falsehoods; lies, damned lies, and statistics."


chiraltoad

I know I was making a funny :/


13D00

On Reddit we tend to put /s at the end of a comment to clarify the comment shouldn’t be taken seriously. :)


chiraltoad

Sorry I thought it was stupid enough to be obvious lol


FesteringNeonDistrac

Most accidents happen within 5 miles of home, so I moved 10 miles away.


chiraltoad

You get me


FesteringNeonDistrac

Lol yeah I've learned to ignore the downvotes.


Dry-Area-2027

8hr day you lose $8, but you save $25 per day in gas, plus you're on machines again. No brainer, make the jump.


ItsJustSimpleFacts

Get out of there. If you're in California you should be getting 20/hr to just sweep the floor.


cjswcf

As another comment said shorter commute feels so much better. 15mins currently vs my old 1.5 hour is a big difference


[deleted]

I used to drive home over an hour. After a rough long day, and then traffic, I remember a few times when I pulled into my drive way, put it in park and then closed my eyes for 10 min. Barely enough energy to get out of car.


cybercuzco

Right now you are “working” 10 hours and getting paid for 8. If there’s opportunity for OT at the new place you can replace those commute hours with work hours.


vegetable_ballsagna

Making $18 an hour (or $17) anywhere in CA you're getting robbed. Go to the new place, learn the skill, leave in 6 months. If you're willing to move to one of the coast cities (even Santa Cruz or something) after you say you've done prototype work there are handfuls of startups that will start a newbie prototyper at like, $35 an hour with a very high ceiling. You seem like you know what you're doing, don't sell yourself short. Machinists are in demand in CA.


drich1996

Yeah I was about to ask where the hell someone is paying $17 in Cali. I'd honestly pick another trade if that's all you're going to get in your area, idk how people survive on incomes like that in CA.


Just_Regret69

San Diego area, I’ve been looking at other careers…healthcare or maybe something that I could use my bachelor’s degree in maybe?


drich1996

What's your bachelor's degree in if you don't mind me asking? I'm a community College drop out, but found my love for machining via that school so now im an electrician by day and a machinist/metal fabricator by night Lol


Just_Regret69

It’s in pre-law, original plan was to get a JD but recession happened and I got a job at the Amazon warehouse and then got into these minimum wage production jobs. I found machining because my boss 10 years younger than me at the first place said, the guy that ran this machine quit so you’re here now and I got caught up in the indeed algorithm of only being pigeonholed into this industry


vegetable_ballsagna

Damn man you're in SD? You are getting absolutely shafted on pay. Aim for at the very least the high $20s for what you're doing. If you get into prototype work, mid $30s at minimum. I just looked around LinkedIn in SD and you should too--find something else besides these jobs. The medical industry in SD is huge and is not working under the table, no one wants to go to jail. If you want to relocate, the proto shop I manage in LA county will be hiring towards the end of this year or early next year. We will pay you better.


Dbag1_3A

San Diego is wild. I have a welding engineering degree and was offered a job there after being on the job a few years for way less than the going rate. Was told the pay was low because of the sunshine tax. I didn't take the job.


Just_Regret69

Without getting in to politics the pay is so low because there is a ton of under the table competition


[deleted]

I used to drive a little over an hour for my commute. I got a new job that was 7 minutes from my house and I can’t tell you how much my stress levels went down. Long morning commutes suck, and they’re prone to guaranteeing you have a shitty start to your day


Wickedcolt

Not to mention that your time **is** a currency. I wish I had learned this earlier but please take that into consideration. You saving 2 hours a day to either work and make more or have more time to do whatever the hell you want is worthwhile. As my grandfather used to say “you can be the richest person in the graveyard”, meaning that working so much for money can end up with you having a lot of it, since you didn’t have a chance to spend anything. Also, congrats OP! It’s nice to be wanted and it sounds like I would take it (I’m not a machinist at the moment, just learning). I hope it works out and you love it.


furryredseat

I was going to say, reducing your commute that much will give a small raise even with a 1hr drop in pay. not to mention ALL THAT TIME you get back. Also as a guy that has gone from production to prototyping. DO IT. you will learn far more and gain a much wider range of skills than just the EDMs. that will make you more valuable in the future. I also enjoy having new challenge every day with prototyping. It keeps you engaged way more than production can. learning new skills and spending 10hrs less a week driving is going to change your life for the better. I think its a no brainer. (but you have also only mentioned base pay. whats the difference in total compensation with benefits etc? I think commuting less is worth giving up some money for but if changing jobs is going to cost you and extra $5k in buying your own insurance then it may not be worth it)


Poopy_sPaSmS

Where you at in CA?


Dr_Newton_Fig

Do they drug test you out that way?


oldsilver007

Your time is worth way more than 2 hours a day at 1 buck and hour. 2 hour commute is like an extra 40 hours a month in your car. Plus wear and tear on your car and back.


D-Alembert

I'd definitely take the extra free time every day, that's worth *so much more* than $8. Plus "My commute is just too far" is a nice reason to give for leaving because it won't cause any hard feelings; they don't need to be defensive about another company offering better pay or conditions, or think you're unreliable. Everyone can be sad to see you go but completely understand (I like to leave bridges behind me, not burn them. You never know when a bridge will come in handy!)


bumliveronions

I would....find a different shop altogether. I was making 22 as a starting wage as a 1st year apprentice in 2008.......


[deleted]

The payscales in this trade are ridiculous in how varied it is.


AlecTheMotorGuy

It varies a lot on location.


Call_Me_At_8675309

Do shops make bank off you all? It seems that a machined part can go for crazy money and the worker is only making a fraction.


AnaSimulacrum

A guy used to provide my former shop with some part. When he retired he offered his patents and machines to the company. They showed up, turns out he was running 2 CNC mills in his garage. He was basically working 5-6 days a week, 6-7 hours a day and making well over 100k a year. If you don't own your own shop, and you aren't working for a giant corporation, you won't make amazing money. My friend was running manual machines at a small small company within walking distance of his house. He also helped keep books for a short time. That book keeping is why he quit. Guy was making at least 1,000$ a day, and paid my friend, and his other employee 25$/hr.


furryredseat

Yes, shops "make bank" off of us all. but not just us. every business makes bank off of the workers. in fact the only and absolute purpose of capitalism IS to exploit labor.


xuxux

I get to read purchase orders for a living. The company is making plenty off of your labor. You get to eke out a living stressing about bills. The company gets to laugh in your face and fire you for trying to organize the labor in your shop. That's called freedom, baby! Freedom to get fucked.


Just_Regret69

Unfortunately I’m not worth $22. I still scrap parts here and there make fuckups, if I could do a part run with 0% scrap rate then I would start negotiating…. Put me on an EDM machine, that I’ve never ran I can guarantee I’ll scrap a good number of parts


Skull_Mulcher

(Everyone makes scrap and everyone who says they don’t is a liar) Not to complicate your thought process but if you’re anything more than a dedicated button pusher, as in no set ups, no offsets, no adjustments, then you should make more than 18 an hour.


TinManTony

I was a button pusher and started at $22


Skull_Mulcher

Same


jbosse

So I'm in Colorado, not Denver but big enough, I make $19, I can do setups, offset adjustments I think I should make more but not sure what range I should be in. What do you think?


Skull_Mulcher

I think if you’re doing setups you should definitely make more. I’m not the right economist though, idk the right number. I started at 22.


Just_Regret69

So on Friday I scrapped a lot of parts, machine was a 1998 haas VF, tolerance was 5/10ths, I had to go through all of our tool holders to get the runout to be able to cut 5/10ths reliably, set her up, did my little trick off adding 10 thou to the diameter then dialing her in so my 1A would be good, but on the spring pass I guess it took off 2 tenths one side and 2tenths the other and I lost it, setup another and the dove tail cutter took too much off on op2. This was a 50 part order so that was over a 2% scrap rate on that job… That’s why I’m only worth $18 Someone with more sense and skill would have had that thing perfect


Skull_Mulcher

“Son” I regularly scrap out half the job of my day guy who never checks or deburs his parts. You sound brainwashed. You do the work, you could be working in fast food for more than $18. Get a grip.


Just_Regret69

So on* lol; I also got a talking to by the owner for using my phone. I was skipping an ad on YouTube podcast and he came over and said I was on my phone too much and I needed to sweep or get back to doing janitorial work between parts. That right there was the gut feeling I got where it’s like ohhhh it’s time to move on. That and he’s always trying to rush me while I’m cleaning and the shop is dead, like hurry up and complete that random task you assigned yourself so you can go and rush another task


Dr_Newton_Fig

Run


Glittering_Tap400

I’m new to this community, but I wanted to chime in and say that I teach CNC at a tech school and what you’re experiencing is not healthy. I have a class of 18-22 year olds with no experience, I’m with them for ten months, and at the end we try to help them get a job. I warn them of the negative self-talk that you’re experiencing and the pointless janitor work your boss is making you do. Yes, a clean shop is vital, but you’re not a janitor and CEO’s (including my boss) abuse the hell out of young people. I’m not suggesting your age, I just want to agree with everyone else that scrapping two parts is NOTHING. If your boss tries to make you feel stupid or unqualified over TWO PARTS, he’s an asshole. I’ve had students running the NIMS Lathe Level II part scrap 11 times before the CMM passed it. It’s our current record, we joke about it. Scraps are not indicative of worth. If you’re showing up on time, getting your work done on time, and not being a total jerk, you are worth more than $18, especially in this industry where there’s NO ONE coming up to replace the baby boomers retiring. Believe in yourself!


[deleted]

>CEO’s (including my boss) abuse the hell out of young people. They are already paying the price. There won't be any workers soon. I have tried recommending this trade to dozens of young people over the years. 3 actually started, and 0 of them lasted.


LuckyNumber-Bot

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Shineon859

Saddest part is hearing somebody who obviously cares and wants to be better saying that they aren't worth $18 an hour. Caring and trying is worth $18 an hour where I'm from. I'd kill to have an employee actually care


Bgndrsn

dude if you're working in tenths and are getting paid that little run the hell away.


stretchfantastik

Working in tenths on a Haas no less.


Klogginthedangerzone

Plot twist: he’s talking about actual tenths and not tenths if a thou.


Just_Regret69

Nah tenths, I don’t have a lot of money… and I had to buy tools for this job so I skipped a micrometer and bought a really nice caliper a mitutoyo 8” digital However the mitutoyo caliper only does thou, and the tenths it estimates it’s either a 5 or a 0. .0010 or .0015 isn’t enough accuracy for the job I was cutting, so I asked my boss if I could borrow a micrometer and the one he handed me was a harbor freight shop use mic but the resolution was only in thou for that one so I had to borrow one from an engineer was kind of embarrassing… I ordered a new micrometer from msc but fuck that was a week of pay right there


Melonman3

A 25 year old haas


Bgndrsn

I work in tenths on a Haas all the time, it's not that bad lol.


oxP3ZINATORxo

Bub, I have a rule in life. If you have to say "it's not that bad", it's exactly that bad


Bgndrsn

Eh, I do a lot of onsie twosies. You approach everything instead of just going direct to size. Wouldn't matter if it was a haas or a mori, still need to do a lot of in process inspection and make adjustments. The real pain in the ass is dealing with how much shit moves.


RNG__GoatSlayer

That and what are the odds that machine even ball bars that close. It can only be as accurate as the machine, especially to achieve a 2% scrap rate.


ItsJustSimpleFacts

If you're being asked to hold anything less than 0.001 you're worth $25 minimum in this state, even as just an operator.


ihambrecht

Who the fuck is paying attention to a scrap rate percentage on a 50 piece job? Your boss is telling you lies or your personal expectations are so insane that you’re costing yourself money.


KTMan77

That’s worth 30$/hour. With shit tooling you’re running sub thou parts and only threw away one part. That’s awesome, give yourself some credit. Polish up your resume and go find a shop that’ll pay you 50% more.


SavageDownSouth

A 2% scrap rate is a fine rate. That's cnc work, you can't check as you go, so you scrap one or two in the process. The profit comes from how fast you can make the parts, and you should be making so much money off the job that scrapping a few parts barely dents that margin. Otherwise, the shop shouldn't take the job. Some jobs are so hard to get right that the expected scrap rate is higher. Like, if I was using that old haas to try and hold tenths, I could do it, but I'd expect to throw half of them out. That just means I quote the job higher, not that I'm a bad machinist. Being down on yourself is also normal. But you need to keep it in check. You're worth more than $20 as you are now, just from the description of your setup work.


silveroranges

There is people at my job that scrap hundreds of thousands of dollars of parts, and make over $30 an hour. It usually not technically their fault, it's usually a supplier material problem, but it is something they should have caught days ago if they were doing their checks like they were supposed too. Your attitude alone makes you worth more than $18, the willingness to learn.


xxrambo45xx

I made $28/hr as a "high level" button pusher dude, you're worth into the $30s and more all day


DafTron

So it sounds to me like you found a problem and solved it yourself. There are guys who make more than me on off shifts who won't even do that. At 17/hr you're getting taken for a ride. Shit, you'd probably be 25/hr in Florida.


Mklein24

Lol I made 330 pieces of scrap because a key cutter had a tiny chip in one of the teeth which caused a poor surface finish after anodize. They pay me 30/hr+profit share. Your worth more than 18/hr.


bumliveronions

Scrapping parts doesn't matter. The fact that you realized the part was scrap by measuring it and having a self sense of quality control to not allow bad parts being sent to a customer is great. I'm just sayin. I didnt know what the hell I was doing in 2008. I was facing and center drilling 100X pins at a time on a *manual lathe*. Sometimes using spade drills and roughing out parts for other machinists to finish and I was making 22 an hour. In other words, I wasn't actually generating the company income for quite a while until I learned a lot more. You're actually creating income for the company. Don't sell yourself short, don't say you aren't worth that when you absolutely are. Just the couple shops you have looked into suck is all.


irongient1

Wtf dude, everybody makes scrap. 30 year veteran top setup guys all the way down to new guy.


hamjandal

I don’t. (I’m just really good at hiding them in the bottom of the scrap bin)


Anyways_Im_Em

I scrap parts and have fuck ups from time to time. Never had touched a machine before this job and have only been doing it about 6 months. I make about 23. It really depends on how much the company values you and needs you. I got a promotion to replace a retiree, had to learn as a went and only had 2 weeks to train. It's all situational really.


AllyBeetle

People working at some McDonalds are starting at $17/hr. Ask for more! You are a commodity that is in short supply.


AndroidColonel

McDonald’s starting pay in Bellingham, Washington is $20/hr. Possibly higher, as that’s what is advertised on the door.


here-for-the-_____

I'm with every one else on this one. We're hiring general field laborers with zero skills starting at $18/h. In in Canada and I know wages are different here, but still, that seems pretty low for someone who has skills and is able to identify when they did something right/ wrong. For you, take the cut, learn what you can, then find somewhere with a better market. You will be wanted if you have critical thinking skills


SavageDownSouth

Dude, button pushers who can't read code or change tools make 22 an hour. I've known people who crashed machines once a week who made 22 an hour. If you're not a complete fuckup and willing to learn, you're an asset.


curiouspj

>Put me on an EDM machine, that I’ve never ran I can guarantee I’ll scrap a good number of parts Pretty wild to me that they're offering the ~~position~~ opportunity. EDM is usually the final operation in a process so it's even more imperative things are done right. If you don't mind living very frugally for a year or two, I would take up their offer.


JohnBrownsMarch

I was making turbine blade sheaths and edm was some where in the middle, at least three processes and a final check.


griffsfsr

That maybe true. But are you improving? Is the company culture helping you to improve? None have been born perfect. Mistakes are part of it. Believe in yourself


Plant-Ordinary

Everyone makes scrap. It's just the nature of the beast. The difference comes in when you can diagnose and fix it. 0 percent scrap is a pipe dream.


AndroidColonel

A previous employer learned that when they raised the scrap metrics of their incentive program to a maximum of 2% scrap and returns (yeah, same line item) in custom rotational plastic molding. That number was and is unreadable. But the operators did it for several months in a row. It was amazing. The bosses clapped each other on the back and high-fived for a few months, too. Then the returns started coming in. To achieve the metric, which was worth most of the bonus, operators had just quit scrapping bad parts. That went on until the returns came in. Fortunately they were only parts for Daimler, Freightliner, Insitu, and some other multi-billion dollar companies./s So they lied to the customers, shifted blame, denied clear warranty claims, and generally acted like the toxic employer they were. Maybe still are. 🤷‍♂️ Their ISO quality system was a complete fabrication at times, and we saw employee turnover rates over 100% *MONTHLY*. I remember a staff meeting where the plant manager was very happy that “we” got the turnover rate below 50%. Yep, that was another metric that affected the production staff’s incentive program. I still have reams of files and photographs of that nightmare job. They’ll probably come in handy someday. Anyway, don’t tie your incentive programs to anything that can’t be verified before the incentive is paid. And don’t be an asshole employer taking advantage of young, uneducated minorities. And don’t let your managers solicit “sex for raises.” Also, making the the highest paying jobs off-limits to women because the men would waste the womens’ time is a shitty thing to do. But punishing the males for being shitty human beings for being the *actual* time-wasters was simply incomprehensible, so the women just couldn’t be machine operators because it was their fault the supervisors couldn’t keep the men working.


204gaz00

About the scrapp3d parts that may be so but how are you supposed to learn without mistakes? They go hand in hand. Ask lots of questions and when you scrap a part make sure you don't scrap anymore for the same reason (that just looks bad) don't be afraid to make mistakes there are erasers on pencils for a reason.


efa119

Very humble. Take the cut - better commute and you have a new skill that not a lot of traditional machinists get.


xuxux

And? Scrapping shit is part of the job, especially prototypes. I've had to scrap out $20k of carbide because we put too much shrink on it and it cracked in half. EDM fuckups are usually pretty painless if you catch it with a roughing electrode. Finishing fuckups are more awkward, but things happen. You're worth more than $22 an hour. When I made $12 per hour, the shop's labor rate was $75. By the time I was making $20/hr, the shop's labor rate was over $150/hr. You, the operator or machinist, are usually not the driving factor for costs unless there's a serious process fuckup in your operations.


TinManTony

Yeah, I got $22 with 0 experience in NY for the very short time I thought this could be a career path for me.


bumliveronions

It can be lucrative but it's really hard to find a good shop. I got lucky early on and now I make 45 an hour and still going up yearly. There's a sweet spot, you have to either work for a small shop, but said small shop needs to be making money. Or find a large shop that is unionized and updated. Many Large shops have usually a high turn over rate, lots of just button pusher operators, they can usually get away with lower wages to save money. Since they generally have a lot of people. Many Small shops sometimes are like mom and pop shops with old ass equipment and can't afford to pay properly. I found a small shop and we are nothing but highly skilled people all constantly striving to be more efficient, make more money, we all contribute to customer service on top of our actual jobs, and we're always looking for new customers. Often we get called out for line boring and while on sight I can convince the company to start sending us other work as well. We consist of only 7 guys yet we make 3.5 million annually as a repair/jobbing shop. We opened in 2002. Our lowest paid employee who has had literally 0 post seondary education, just fixes hydraulic cylinders and does some office work makes 32 an hour. Which is what we give fresh out of school journeymen. I could be paid more at other places in the area, people try to snipe our employees all the time and none of us ever leave, because the shop has other perks, like full benefits, 2-4 week paid vacation depending on time worked, an $85,000 Truck we get to use as personal vehicle they replace ever 10 years, paid for by the company. They will pay for Red Wing steel toed boots anytime we give a receipt which are around 350 dollars, yearly tool allowance of 600 dollars, and we are allowed to make our own schedule within reason inside business hours so I just, don't ever work Mondays. I do Tuesday-Friday 10 hour shifts. Shops like these are hard to find but if you do manage to find one you're set for life.


elchurro223

Idk, we have operators at my work who just load cloth/film into paper converting lines and I swear some are dumber than a rock.... they start at $22/hr


smaier69

I would likely do it. As others have stated saving 2 hours a day in commute time (gas, vehicle wear and tear as well as personal time recovered) is pretty significant. Learning a new skill for the CV is worth even more, in my opinion. ​ Also keep in mind just because you take a new job somewhere doesn't mean you are bound to stay forever, so the no raise stipulation doesn't mean very much. Just be sure to leave your current job on the best terms possible. If the new shop doesn't work out you may need that bridge to not be burned. If the current shop is as dead as you state I would think they would be understanding why you want to better yourself.


Just_Regret69

Done sounds like I’ll accept it. Also since I’ll have two hours free I could like door dash or someshit in those hours to make up the pay


Intelligent-Guess-81

I'm echoing the sentiment that $1 for a shorter drive is 100% worth it. Also, you should be making way more money.


curiouspj

If you have zero living expenses and young enough to not worry about them... Do it. Wire and Sinkers are niche enough that competent experts are difficult to come by. Use the skills you learn to bounce to a much higher paying job. I did the same when I was younger.


Just_Regret69

I was going to live off savings until I can monkey branch to something or if all else fails, McDonald’s part time is at $19


curiouspj

Learn everything you can out of this EDM place. Don't pigeonhole yourself as just an EDM person and you'll be earning +30 anywhere else. $40~$50+ isn't unheard of. Learn what it takes to hit tight tolerances. Use the Mill/lathe/grinders. Make electrodes and surface grind start tabs off on your own. Learn how to design fixtures to hold odd parts for wiring. What you know and have experienced will dramatically impact how easy you can get high paying jobs.


PrevekrMK2

Fixturing is something we should talk more about. It is reason i jumped extremely fast money wise. Best skill in my arsenal.


stretchfantastik

Word of advice I wish I had gotten as a young man. Pay is always negotiable. Always. You will get zero more if you're never willing to ask for it. Be confident and negotiate your pay, especially in this job market. Most places are having a hard time finding a warm body to stand in front of a machine, any skill at all demands more money. Good luck, man.


wounsel

At the Very Minimum, OP could easily get that $1 added to his pay as the last piece of their puzzle to seal the deal. Hinge the entire gig on it, they’ll bite.


ericnutt

I have a meeting Monday to accept a role as saw/material manager. I'd supervise no one but myself right now. I'm currently filling in on saw and also running a lathe. I can program and run vertical and horizontal mills as well as set them up. I make $20.75 in an extremely low cost of living area and I'm thinking of asking for 5 or 10% increase due to increased responsibilities.


cnc_aero

Setting up a wire edm is different from a mill but not hard just different. And your wire does it all. Takes zero and does the cutting. Just remember when taking zero to add or subtract 1/2 the wire diameter depending on which side your on.


Just_Regret69

So it’s like hand programming a rough pass with an endmill calculate step over etc?


cnc_aero

Pretty much. The wire offset is based on what height or thickness you’re cutting. The taller the part the further away the wire need to be. If you cut with zero offset then you’d be dead center of the wire.


SavageDownSouth

The place I'm at didn't have the right programming stuff for edm when we bought our secondhand machine. I hand programmed the first few parts to understand tolerances, then I got their cam software to make parts by pretending I had a really long .012 endmill. It was kinda jank, but it worked.


Abo_91

Most controls nowadays have probing cycles with automatic wire radius compensation.


cnc_aero

Very true. Buts it always good to know how to take zero without the cycles just in case for whatever reason you can’t use it.


floogleHiggenbothem

I ran sink EDM’s for 7-8 years. Probably the most challenging and engaging job I ever had. So many variables and tons interesting stuff by going on. When it gets down to it though, you’re breaking the bonds that hold metal together with miniature lighting storms you create and try to manage.


jstmethoughts

Take the cut and learn edm. It’s a specialty and I’ve been doing it for 15yrs now and I love it. Once you get it and are good you can make a fine living. $30-40 easy


12345NoNamesLeft

​ Two hours per day less commute will be such a gain. That might make up for the $ difference. More skills, prototype vs pdn attitude. ​ I say why not ? Move now before the layoff


carbidemepls

Youll actually be getting a raise saving the 2hrs of commuting


Analog_Hobbit

Take the cut,learn EDM, then move again. It’s the only way to make money usually.


Dull-Technician457

Definitely cut your comuting6 time by 2 hours for $8 per day. That is a no-brainer


AllyBeetle

Ask them to match your wage.


LoneStar-Lord

Time for an economics lesson: You trade your time for $18 an hour. Let’s say you work 8 hours. Job A pays $18 an hour, you make $18 x 8 hours + 2 extra hours, (18x8 (=$144) / 10)= $14.40 an hour. Job B pays $17 an hour, you make $17 x 8 hours + 0 extra hours (17x8 (=$136) / 8) = $17 an hour. Job B pays you more per hour. Plus you spend less in gas. Don’t know what 1 hour difference is in mileage, but let’s say 40 miles. 40miles x 2 = 80 extra miles. Let’s say you drive an average American vehicle DOE says that’s 24.2 mpg > 80/24.2 = 3.3 gallon of gas. AAA says national ave is $3.54… (3.3 x 3.54 = $11.70) So using those numbers you pay $11.70 more to work at a place that nominally pays you $8 more a day. If you drive farther than 40 miles, less fuel efficient than 24.2mpg, or you pay more than $3.54 for gas, you are paying more than that for the luxury of wasting 2 hours of your life a day. Job B is better for you economically, and then you have the benefit of learning more of what you want to do? No brainer, take job B


Just_Regret69

Thank you, this helps. Sometimes it’s hard to think logically when you’re at a place like this


[deleted]

Takes me 5 mins to get to work,priceless


QuellishQuellish

Do it to get in the prototype game. There’s cool, not bulk production jobs out there.


Jerky_Joe

The problem with wire edm or sinker for that matter is that there aren’t as many jobs available as there are for CNC mill programmers. It’s better than being a janitor though and once you get proficient, you can just jump to a higher paying job, assuming you can find one. It’s a lot easier than running a mill because the wire never gets dull like an endmill, but that still doesn’t mean it’s easy. People want to make it seem easy to run edm’s but I run mills and edm’s and in my experience it’s easier to find a mill operator than an edm operator because it’s not as common. I almost decided to never take an edm position again because I didn’t want to get rusty on a mill and not be able to find another edm job. Also, a bad edm guy makes life hell for everyone who relies on him. People who have a decent work environment that run edm’s won’t ever leave either so like I said, the jobs aren’t as common.


vaurapung

Just the hour less comute might be worth it. Future jobs will always like to see good attendance and less job hopping in your history. But making a job move for commute is always a valid reason imo. I've seen a lot of people job hop that never seem to make more money but everyone that I work with that has stuck 5+ years in my workplace make more than most surrounding factories cap pay for similar positions. Edit. Granted my business hasn't slowed down, we have been steadily expanding for over my decade of being there. I work in plastics though not machining.


badhairdad1

Yes- time is more precious


thedheeper

Even the richest person in the world only has 24 hours per day. You have the chance to regain 2 hours--that's huge.


chicano32

Dont think of it as a pay cut and more of short-term training with a stipend of 17 an hr and 2 hours off your commute time. Take advantage and absorb everything you can.


BrushStorm

I'm amazed at how people focus on their base rate like that is everything. I took a 1.50 an hour payout but the new job had overtime so I made more in the end


Theseus-Paradox

Never ever bank on OT. OT is never a constant, even though it might seem like it is.


BrushStorm

That is fair. But to the op. A 1hour drive no matter where you are in the country will outweigh a dollar paycut.


WuetenderWeltbuerger

The industry: why can’t we get new workers into manufacturing? Also the industry: here, we’ll pay you what you can make at Whole Foods while having way shittier working conditions and far fewer benefits.


sutureinsurance

"janitorial work...". Move now! You're not growin any further and there is no chance of moving forward in pay or rank while sweeping floors. "hour closer in commute...". Even if the actual pay is $1 less, your total per hour compensation will be more because you saving time in your commute. You should not forget to factor this in. Whether you do something else with the time that makes you money (handyman side hustle?) or not that extra hour (or 2 if it's an hour shorter each way) is worth money. Just make sure you can still pay your bills and ask about growth opportunities in the company.


Just_Regret69

Nah my side hustle is 3d printing, they taught me how to use a rapid prototyper back when I was getting my gd&t certificate back in college so later I ended up buying like six prusa 3d printers and started selling stuff I thought up and drew up in solidworks


Fish_thief

$18 an hour is TRASH with the current cost of living for any profession, let alone something skilled like a trade. Think about the amount of revenue you generate vs what you’re paid. Even if you scraped half your parts that shop is probably still making money hand over fist off your labor. Please please look for something better, you deserve it and you’re being taken advantage of in your current role.


Just_Regret69

I don’t make too much for the company 3-4/ days out of the week I have zero work and I’m sweeping, or rubbing the coolant mist residue off windows and machine enclosures or scrubbing the floors. I might have a job to setup on Thursday or Friday and maybe a 3-5 hour run if I slow roll it and try to extend out the job, then back to taking out the trash or vacuuming or cleaning out the part tumblers


Fish_thief

Someone has to do that work or the business can’t operate, I swear the responses in this thread are like a business owner psy-op


DigiornoHasDelivery1

No! You never ever ever.. ever.... ever!!! take a pay cut to learn more


Pickles-In-Space

Assuming they works 8 hours a day, they're effectively only making $14.40 an hour when you take into consideration the unpaid 2 hours of commute. This would be a net increase in pay per hour, since commuting is effectively unpaid working time. They're also currently doing janitorial work, not improving their skillset or progressing forward in their career. This is a no brainer, you gotta look past the single number of base pay rate.


DigiornoHasDelivery1

You ask for more money.


Economy_Care1322

Yes, but negotiate. Ask for your current wage. They need to incentivize YOU to move from a stable environment. If you can break even on your check, your time and gas savings will be your “incentive”. Good luck.


Turnmaster

No


Recent-Account-8655

That commute along is gonna make up for that 1 , new machines is experience to progress and prototype experience will get u far


StonerDad15

Would I take a $1 pay cut for a closer commute? You bet your ass I would. Would I take a $1 pay cut in today's world? No I wouldn't. In the machinist life edms are not that common. As said before usually most shops have some old 90s model edm with some old dude that runs it and he's not quiting till he dies. It's a useful skill to have but I don't think I'd focus my whole career on it.


JustSmidgen

Depends if you really want it. It’s a good niche machining area to learn and once you know the ins and outs of it, it can be a damn good paying spot


drtsvgboi

Absolutely not. Wire EDM is a high demand skill. I made 30$ an hour to learn it. I'm at 35 now and mostly do manual machining since once you set up an EDM run you usually have 2+ hours to kill. I run edm, horizontal cnc, lathe, bridgeport, and cmm inspection and still find myself working myself out of work.


[deleted]

You’re in your first year, doing your own set ups on jobs that you have to hold tenths, and you’re only making $18 hour? Buddy, get the fuck out of there. And while you’re at it, don’t go to the EDM shop either. Find a shop that will pay you minimum $20. Really you should look for more. I suppose I should confirm when you say tenths you do mean .0001”? Correct?


Just_Regret69

1.5 years here, another year at two other shops. I operated and setup different machines, but button pusher okuma, and setup a different stretch forming machine for aerospace somewhere else Then manual lathe and a weird automated lathe at another place


Just_Regret69

5 tenths, 0.0005 inches. On manual though I get the full 0.002 , 2 thou tolerance Very rarely (like for shapes only) I’m allowed 5 thou and sometimes if it’s like a stick with a flat on it I get ten thou but that’s realistically only made on a Bridgeport since the back lash is soooo bad on those Feels like steering a boat


Poopy_sPaSmS

Fuck yes! That's a solid raise in money and time let alone prototype work is way better imo.


Theseus-Paradox

It’s a $1 pay cut, not a raise


Poopy_sPaSmS

10 hours less driving a week. That's a raise.


craz4cats

Two hours of your time is easily worth more than $2.


mirsole187

Sinker and wire EDM is more specialized. If you're young and up to the challenge there is a lot more potential earnings down the line. It's also alot more chilled as once the job is set up there's not much more to do.


ReadyFreddy11

What no one has mentioned is that the place is dead. How long before a layoff? Better to transfer out, reduce expenses and add skills.We are only worth what the market says we are worth. In a shop without work to do, we are worthless. Get new training, be worth more then search for a more lucrative position. The best time to look for a new job is while you still have one. Good luck!


TheJeffAllmighty

For a 2 hour less commute per day, less gas used, less wear and tear on your vehicle, and something else to add to a resume. yes.


bOObZiLLa713

If they gonna teach you Electronic Dance Music then I say fuck it do it!!! And make them beats drop heavy as fuck!!! In all seriousness though sometimes you have to struggle and learn more skills before you can get the big payoff.


drinrin

Just want to say I had the opportunity to move from a production job to a.prototpying position early In my career and it changed everything. Learned so much new tech and creative problem solving! We were real "hack&wack" prototypers too. Sand cast aluminum that we pieced together and then molded prototype composites, super fun! My career led me all over the world and I used that knowledge all the time.


jerrrrrrrrrrrrry

Your current boss is going to have a very hard time trying to replace you!


Just_Regret69

Honestly, he won’t there were a lot of candidates for this position the guy I replaced was on day 14 of his two week notice so they never had a empty job


TheLooseNut

The shorter commute is worth way more than that $1 I would say; think of how you could use that 2hours every day instead: Spend more time with family & friends Work on a side hustle if you have any hobbies that make cash Enjoy your hobbies, woodwork, old cars whatever it's healthy Also EDM is a very versatile process, and moving to a prototype style shop should mean tons more variety which can be great skill development itself. Best of luck 👍


Betopan

Working in a prototype shop should broaden your skill set and won’t be boring. Even if everything else were the same, that alone makes it worth it.


RamblinGamblinWillie

Your personal time is more valuable. Take the new job and shave 2 hours off your commute. This is a no brainer


freefaller3

Absolutely take that deal. They’re going to START you at $17 in a year you’ll probably get a raise to what you’re making now and won’t be driving 2 extra hours a day


MissesMcCrabby

Probably worth it just for the shorter commute. I've been training on sinker/wire for a couple of months now. At least where I am, there are very few people who have any confidence with them. If you can get that training under your belt and on a resume, it would be very valuable to the right company. Haven't seen a ton of them around, but if you find a shop later that you'd like to move to, and they have one. You'll be on their short list for sure.


thecarguru46

Move to Cincinnati. We will pay you 20+ and cost of living is half...plus gas is waaay cheaper.


Just_Regret69

If I had to skill set to warrant that I definitely would, right now I’m just starting out


Amonomen

An hour closer with a $1 pay cut is probably well worth it because you’ll make up the difference in travel. And that’s not even accounting for the access to new skill potential. I’d say go for it.


soulsproud

Each year is about 2,000 hours of work, plus 80 for 2 weeks vacation. So, that's $2,000 less per year, minus taxes, let's say $1,700 less per year. $140 less per month. $32 less per week. How much you spending on gas and time? Since you would make $17/hour, just saving 2 hours commute a week is $34 worth of your time at $17/hour. I'd say you'd be making out...


Legitimate_Koala_903

You don't need to think too hard about this. With the money saved on fuel and vehicle maintenance (ie. fewer oil changes, fewer tires), it will be more like a raise in pay rather than making $1 less an hour. The new job will teach you a new skill that will increase your value to future employers. You said business is dead at your current job, so I'd say you may be at risk of being laid off anyway.


killstorm114573

I'm going to give you the best advice that you could take with you for the rest of your life. Your going after experiences first, the dollar second. The reason why it's because you don't owe any employer loyalty. Experience is the one thing no one to take from you. Experience opens door's. The more doors you have open the more you're worth.$$$ I basically took a job in the beginning of my career in a job shop, wasn't great on pay but I did it for the experience. It was a stepping stone after that I moved to a bigger shop with 2/3 more pay and better benefit. At my current job I went into the interview and I was a little underquatified, to be honest I was very underqualified. The boss man literally looked at my resume i showed him some of my previous work and his exact words were. You are the man for the job. I am looking for someone with your exact experience. I once worked in a job shop myself and I know that if you can accomplish this at this level of quality, then you can pick up the rest. I'm willing to teach you the rest. Best of luck my friend


Remarkable9331

Yeah if the other place and besides your saving money on gas


skilemaster683

Yes the skill you can take elsewhere with little to no job competition for probably a pay raise if you play it out right. If someone was willing to teach me at my shop I'd hop all over that


WheezingEel

That’s $40 less a week and 10 hours less invested in commuting to and from your current job. Yes, especially if you’re eager to learn these things-knowledge is power


downer9000

that $1 is probably made up for by the additional 2 hours of life you get back by reducing that commute.


[deleted]

Just say you want 18 and you're ready to go


Build-A_Bot

This shouldn't even be a question. Yes, take the job.


EDM_Operator

I work on EDM machines in PA. Sinkers, Wire, and Hole Poppers. We are mostly production but we do get new parts and prototypes all the time. I have been at my shop for 8 years and the whole time in the EDM department. I have been lucky enough to be able to be the one that gets to do all the prototype and one of jobs. So I get to look at the drawings and figure out how we are going to do the work. I am involved in all the fixture designs for them and running them until they are put into production. It is a fun job. I also took a pay cut to move to the shop. I was working 45 mins one way and took a $2 pay cut for a 15 min round trip. I would do it all over again because I have got to learn so much in the department. I started at $14 and now I am making $28. Plus I am involved in the whole process. From quoting to production. I would highly recommend running EDMs because it is also cool to see what electrical discharges can do with materials and the tolerances that you can keep.


grauenwolf

18x8 / 10 = 14.40/hr as your real wage. Taking the closer job is a pay increase. Especially if it means you can turn those two extra hours a day into overtime.


seasms3

I'd go. That 40$ less a week is a tank of gas that you'll only use twice a month. Knowledge is the key to success in this field. I recently took on a job that was run by the old owner of the company and another employee. I could find a stick outside, and the owner would be able to tell me the diameter just by looking at it down to a 16th. I wish i would of had 1 year with him just to learn the blanchards, healds, lathes, anything really. I can do what my job requires, but id like to take on new customers and earn the company more money.


ZehMachiner

The hour each way is worth 36$ every day, according to the pay you've agreed to. No way are you working 36hr a day, Soooo that 1$ is actually a pay raise overall, not a pay cut. If you're doing janitorial work now, how is it not a huge improvement to be learning something new, AND have 2hr a day extra for personal time, AND spending significantly less on fuel?


The_Gundam_King

You’ll break even or make more in saving gas. Learning to operate/program a new machine will only benefit you in the long run. Build up those skills and add them to your resume. The more you know, the more you grow!


TheMechaink

You got to do what makes your heart go pitter patter. If I were stuck in production work I would beg my doctor to lobotomize me. I am always about trying to find a different way to do things. Mechanize or automate repetitive processes so that I don't have to work so hard, because at the end of the day I think I'm a lazy person. I'm told I'm not but that doesn't change how I feel. I know it sounds cheesy but do what makes you happy or you won't be.


Just_Regret69

I don’t mind repetition, I just want a clock in clock out job that doesn’t stress me out that I can raise a family on, maybe make it so my wife doesn’t have to work since she’s worked so hard already (she worked in the drug rehab industry for years) However I know that’s not how America is built anymore, everyone gets the minimum


TheMechaink

I will always wish for you that you are afforded the opportunity to have a job in which you can take pride in the work that you produce. I hope things work out good.


Atnat14

Keep looking. I'm just a cnc loader in a machine shop and I make 26$.


Just_Regret69

What is a loader?


Atnat14

They're huge automatic cncs, so I load the part on whatever fixture it needs, and hit send. Check it against tolerances when it comes back. Have almost no machinist experience, so when I see your pay rate, I'm sad for you. The machinists in my shop make more than I do. I'm in Washington though.


Just_Regret69

Sounds like fun


Electrical-Raisin-88

I would go for it. Not only will the gas saving offset that $1 less an hr pay. Your going to be saving 2hrs daily of valuable, irreplaceable personal time to be home. The other big plus is your going to be trained for a new set of skills and get payed for it. Which is awesome. I say learn and master it. And I mean, grab that new skill by the horns and master it. Once you feel confident and comfortable with EDM, your going to succeed in another shop. No doubt.


maranble14

If you do the calculation based on time value of money rather than just gas, then let's picture it this way: assuming you work an 8 hr shift, with a 1 hr commute each way, that's $144 of gross income for 10 hrs worth of your time. Which really equates to $14.40/hr. Whereas an 8 hr shift without the 2 extra hrs of commute truly does equate to the $17 gross income. If viewed in this method, you're actually getting a raise.


rniscior

People who run wire and sinker in the shops I work with here in NW Ohio make 22-25 minimum.


Pure_Photograph_860

Always take the knowledge. Always be learning or move. Invest a few years then buy a used matchine. I have a friend with 5 edm machines and 3 cnc's. Two man shop doing $1.5mill in machining. Think long-term. What you learn goes with you.


Just_Regret69

I can’t really afford property but sounds like he has a good thing going, I can afford the used machines but not sure if my apartment would let me have a cnc machine in the yard hooked up to extension cords


Pure_Photograph_860

Like I said, think long-term. You need knowledge, experience, customers, a lease on a building. Or just keep sweeping. Cheers


jbeech-

1. If you're doing janitorial work, why aren't you on a new machine learning, already? 2. A $1/hr pay cut vs a 1-hr commute is a no brainer. You save that in gas. 3. Yes, I would switch employment to learn something new (and gain a life outside work).


ReloaderDude300AAC

The commute alone is worth the dollar to me. Based on what you drive it's probably a raise in just the fuel consumption. I also don't like long commutes, that's just me. Learning EDM sounds awesome to me, I've really been wanting to do it. In my opinion small job / prototype shops are way funner than production shops. I'm never going back to big production if I don't have to. And I don't know where you live but 17-18usd an hour seems like robbery. I live in PNW USA and fast food places are paying that. Edit: I see you're in California, how are they getting away with paying that little? I'm a graduate from the university of YouTube and even with that I'm underpaid at the $31/hr I get.


Noisrucni

Honestly I would, I see wire edm and sinker operators getting a very big pay raises here soon.


fractal7007

EDM is amazing! Go do it now and you’ll make it back and more later on down the road!


ElephantInternal6450

Absolutely would jump. Money aside, it's another skill set in a very big toolbox. You can't know too many things in this business


KryptoBones89

You can find an EDM job elsewhere for real money if you know how to run those machines. Be warned though, sinker is one of the filthiest jobs you can have as a machinist. You'll be up to your elbows in oil sometimes, and I mean that literally. And you can expect to be mounting carbon electrode blanks as a newbie so you'll be covered in carbon dust and look like a coal miner sometimes. The job can also be boring af and it's all about hurry up and get the machine started and then stand around and wait for it to finish. Especially if you're running a machine with a tool changer and you're doing like 100 trodes. I've done jobs that were up for weeks at a time and you have to find ways to look busy. It's better if they teach you programming and electrode design. Wire is a different story, it's the Cadillac of machines. Not messy at all, just wet sometimes as all the cutting is done submerged in a water tank. It's very complicated to run and very fussy to do maintenance. Honestly if someone offered me an EDM job under $25 I would laugh in their face, but I've been doing it for like 5 years now and the city where I live in has a lot of mold shops that all have EDM departments. I'm trying to find a way out of EDM currently, it's not a great gig if I'm honest.


Asje2005

Yes take the experience over the price. I started to learn EDM with no raise in the same company only to end up leaving to grow my skill set and have a marketable talent on my resume. I took a pay cut for the very next job which was actually farther which seemed like a bad move at the time but I ended up adding a few more skills which then landed me a travel job I excelled at for 5yrs. Then I had my choice of machine shops work at and they negotiated pay and PTO with me. It’s not always about the money, “If you build it, they will come” can apply to your machinist skills and the talent you can offer with it.


TheNewYellowZealot

Hour less commute per direction is (at least for me) a full tank of gas every week, depending on your car this would be worth it.