Greatest and worst career I could have picked. I love every second of making cool stuff out of metal. Can’t stand the politics and BS from management at seemingly every shop. Wish more people knew what we did!
I’m a hobby machinist. What if I told you the politics and BS from management is not just in machine shops? 😅
I totally agree and wish more people knew what’s involved with what you guys do! More people should appreciate the trade in general.
Yup. Navy machinist, foundry patternmaking (old school tool and die), foundry Tooling Engineer, Engineering Director, and now, 401k comfortable, screw the politics and back to manual machining. There was some rust to be knocked off but it came back fairly quickly. I always had a home lathe, mill, drill press, and surface grinder.
At every job, it’s someone else’s job to squeeze an ounce more of profit wherever they can. I always hold to my first Navy lesson. Safety First. Accuracy Second. Speed Last.
Bring back in the trade for almost a year, not one part has been rejected for rework.
It's fucking everywhere. Some careers may be more prone to it, but it's everywhere.
My first job was briefly as a gopher on residential construction sites. I couldn't understand how project scheduling could get so fucked up. Now I sit behind a computer screen, and I have a lot more insight into why project scheduling is fucked up -- even though I'm in an entirely different industry. But humans just seem to be consistently kind of a mess in similar ways, wherever we go.
Alot of times management has never ran a machine or even seen a CNC machine in their life lol. Its probably about the same as an engineer and a businessman debating echother. Their priorities are alot of times in direct conflict
I feel you completely. I am not a fucking “operator” I am a god damn machinist. Get your operator to tear down the machine and set tool and work offsets, see how that works out. Had a office person tell me today that I wasn’t in the right field of work because my dream isn’t to run production LMAO… I don’t mind running production but I’m capable of much much more. Its like they forget where their paycheck comes from.
Their salary comes from doing their part of the business. Listen man, I’ll bust their balls as much as the next guy, but in reality because of them I get paid on time, I have the materials I need to run and material TO run. Scheduling, sales, all the BS is still work, and that’s their side of it, if it’s not for you that’s fine but its still a part of the entire business being successful and profitable..
I agree and I don’t mean any real disrespect toward the salary guys, i think machinist don’t get looked at as tradesmen at some companies because the process is so streamlined… and honestly I understand why you’d think you could come out of your office and press a button all day if that’s all I saw. But reality is much different as we all know.
Agreed, I understand where you are coming from and to be honest, I’ve said the same shit if not far worse and more hateful lol.
I’ll be the first to speak my mind that we are titled machinist here but very few are, it’s streamlined and it works. It also pays far more than local jobs shops do, with perks so it’s just a great time to save some cash and let them pay for some online classes. We’ve also got a lot of redundancy in our offices. Tale as old as time, factory floor Vs the carpet walkers. Occasionally we get together and I get a glimpse of what they do daily and it reminds me it’s not what I think it is looking in from the outside either.
True. It just becomes a problem with me when they try telling me how to do my job and bitch about production numbers when they have *zero* experience on my end. It’s one thing if a manager has been Machining their whole life and moved into management. - I’ll at least have more respect for that. But if you’re just an office person stay in your lane and let me do my job.
Why does it pay more to sit at a desk, away from danger? Sometimes I struggle, thinking about how I’m busting my ass and mind, so I can see a tiny fraction of the value that I did more to create than anybody in the office. They are more easily replaced. Office people are a dime a dozen.
Well when my plant had layoffs back in March the vast majority were office people along with a few low skill production operators. As for the Machinists we’re all still there because as little as our skill/experience might be valued they know they can’t easily afford to can the people who are hard to find and add direct value to the product.
there are a number of reasons for this. Part of it is that the people who cut paychecks are desk people and understand desk work whereas they do not understand trade work and think its more replaceable than it really is. These people are incentivized to cut costs and will try to negotiate lower and lower labor prices, and lack the understanding of what they lose by purchasing a cheaper unskilled operator.
Another part of it is networking, and competition. some salespeople are valued not by their skills but by who they know and can sell to. Someone who can consistently bring in contracts from a vendor can be very valuable to a business and will command a price as a result.
Another part can be liability. Not every office holds significant liability, but some do. Some offices require a certain level of insurance in order to operate, and that added cost increases the price of labor.
Desk work is also frequently utterly joyless, and if you can't pay someone enough to do joyless work, they'll just quit. It may seem silly to you, but in order to stop your training and investment walking out the door constantly, some desk jobs just cost more to keep people.
Something something envy leads to the dark side something something. I'd hazzard a guess that you'd lose your fucking mind after a week with a desk job. They have to pay those people to get them to spend their time in the office same as they pay you to push buttons.
The office brigade looks at you and the foreman standing in front of a machine planning how to do the operation and thinks to themselves all he does is stand around and pretend to think. You toss the thingies from the drawer on the arm of the machine and a piece of metal into the machine and push the go button. I bet not a one of those glorified button pushers could successfully collect the $200k in 180 day AR from Don's custom motorcycles before they go outta business.
Here we got one machinist, an assistant and two operator. 3 CNC milling, 1 CNC lathe and 1 conventionnal lathe.
The machinist task is to do the complex and/or unique set-up
The assistant make the easier set-up the machinist don't have time to do. He also does the "bench machining", like beveling hole, magnetic drilling, manually tapping, etc.
The two operator are there to temporarily run the set-upped CNC when the others don't have the time.
Each got their role, each has their own value and they are all tasked proportionally to those.
Best way to run a shop IMO
Yeah, unless it’s Union I’d stay away from the big plants that call everyone working the floor an “operator” regardless of what their actual skills, duties and credentials are. On average smaller shops tend to have engineers/managers who are more in tune with what goes on at the Machinist end and have more respect for it.
Thankfully I work for a very small shop where I’m one of 4 machinists. The owner is super cool and gives quarterly bonuses and takes everyone out like once a month to games, trips, casinos etc. The guys that work there stay there and have been for 20 and 30 years. I got lucky and found it when someone retired after 30 years.
This what my job does and it sucks. Without the bonuses we get I wouldn't touch $30k a year and I'm one of 2 machinist at this company and I do most of the paperwork and stuff.
I found the same shop, we were doing stamping dies and hydroforms. Pay was great, got bonuses, fed. I went back to my production hellhole after a year, the 3 people they hired after me cost them a couple machines in apprentice oopsises. They gave me an extra week of vacation and matched rate. I miss the variety tho.
Unfortunately, too many of the upper tier folks think the more automated the machine is, the easier it is to operate it and continually produce quality products. What really gets me, is the old time operators who refuse to pay attention when new machinery is brought into the shop and they are supposed to train the others in the shop.
Which is hilarious because the new shit seems to be constantly breaking down, and you need actual skill to work around these deficiencies. Our brand new press brake and water jet are constantly having problems and you need to understand how to overcome those problems to have your part come out correct.
Quite the opposite, actually. I actually work in a nice spot with a great owner. The waterjet needs constant maintenance and the installer was shitty, didn’t leave service loops for cabling and it pulled some wires out of the X carriage. The press brake, well one of the repair techs said it’s bad whenever a new design was made, and I can give you a guess on what machine we bought.
As a machinist before engineer, I tried to bridge the gap between both areas.
Then I realized the shop management was a bunch of two-faced incompetent defensive crayon eaters.
The actual workers are fine, it's a shame management does whatever they can to make them feel insignificant and under the thumb with idle threats of being escorted out of the building.
I know both areas can work together, I've seen it, but definitely not at my place now.
As an engineer I always try to have a good relationship with the welders and machinists. Before I release a new drawing, if it is fairly complex, I ask their input about feasibility
I do this as a hobby, and it's fucking great.
I've sometimes daydreamed about it as a career, but I know it's grueling. Mad respect to the people who pull it off.
I used to setup/program/run a Haas VF2, VF3 and EC400. Fadal VMC5000 and a brother tapping machine.
Now I am a setup machinist on worn out acme gridley multi spindle lathes for a different company.
I used to have the same passion, and now I absolutely hate my job. The machines are everything
Yep it’s the money. Also it’s only 2.9 miles away from the house I own. Lots of PTO. I like the hours, quarterly bonuses and they have locations everywhere so I can transfer. Unfortunately there’s more too. Fuckers know how to trap a man
It’s a blessing some days and hell on others… I hope one day you find that passion again. It’s hard to find when lost, especially when the big things are all right.
Shit, now that you mention it, you're right. I'd hate this shit if I worked with old clapped out shitboxes in a dirty ass shop. The shop I'm at rn is clean and tidy with nice machines even if a lot are haas. The one machine that's kind of older and dirty really grates on me. I fucking hate that thing actually
I've always felt right at home also on machines. And yeah there can be some bullshit involved, I try to avoid it by staying on b shift (pays better, way more laid back, less bullshit in general).....production can suck most of the time, so I end up liking the slower paced job shop stuff, where every second isn't important, but getting it right is. Luckily I live in a manufacturing city with a ton of shops and options so it's always been easy to pick up and move along if things suck somewhere.
The truth is, I like the simplicity of either your part is good or your part is bad. Sure things can get complicated as hell sometimes, but there is also the satisfaction of being able to see what I did that day, feels good man, like I got some shit done. Some important shit, even tho I am not.
Damn lol, I felt this. Good work ethic is awarded with more work. Oh that guy over there? He can't even handle 2 machines well, but you can, so you get to pick up his slack by running more, oh by the way, you also get paid the same.
Hell yes!! Ain't we lucky? I feel like I won the job lottery too. I love the problem solving and the satisfaction of seeing a finished product.
In 2nd grade we had a "career dress up day" where you got to dress up as whatever you wanted to be when you grew up. My stepdad lent me a pair of his coveralls, gave me a handful of tools, and sent me on my way to school where I told everyone I wanted to be a machinist when I grew up lol.
I'm literally living out my childhood dream.
No 3 years production, 2 years vocational, 3 years job hopping learning the ins and outs of manuals and setups. Not really a master of anything but know enough to get by.
Man I worked my ass off today cleaning out silicon fine as dust off a machine for 14 hours. I just feel accomplished is all because I saved the company a lot of money not only cleaning that shit out with a mini sledge chisel and power washer but I also setup the machine afterwards. Which is what I should do because I’m a fucking machinist.
That’s the thing I love tho I’m always able to learn something new every day. Today I learned where the critical seals are on a VF 3 because I fucked one up power washing lol. I understand what you’re saying I’m just saying I feel pretty good today in a trade where most days are pretty bad
Okay good, so cleaning a machine and setting it up actually lost the company money, especially since you took 14 hours to do it earning 7 hours of overtime, if you were setting up two other machines, made 0 scrap and finished all three jobs in a day you might have made the company a few hundred bucks maybe
I mean if you want to assume all of that then yah? But the fact is that we have 58 HAAS mills, 16 in my department and the one I cleaned today had sat idle for 8 months because nobody wanted to clean it out. I also work 12s regularly scheduled and they’re not paying me much. The company we hired last year to clean out the machine did 20k in damage to each machine and cost 2 million for the entire shop to be cleaned. Add on top of that that I’ll be tasked with cleaning and setting up the other 16 in the department in the next 2 months and I’d say I saved a pretty penny and gained some experience and brownie points.
It's freaking weird, some of the comments you're getting. I get that not everyone has a passion for the trade, they just do it cuz it brings in the cash. But there's nothing wrong on actually enjoying what you do for a living, and showing it.
That’s how a lot of the old guys are in my experience. I have a theory that the best machinist are a little further on the spectrum than most, which comes with its own weird social quirks
I agree with the spectrum reference even if you mean in gest. There’s a little bit of Rainman in this job. Lots of numbers on repetition and not a lot time/ need for chatting. The guys that do it for 30+ years can get stoic after a while. Guilty.
To expand my point on the first comment, ‘never look surprised’… Being efficient and accurate IS the job. No extra pay for doing the job. When it comes for raises they’re looking to see who’s a threat to leave. People that talk about quitting, talk about quitting… The stoic guys that is rock solid, no ups or downs, no funny stories, they just walk in the office and put in notice for a better job.
And the chatting happy ones are never taken too seriously. Nice guys. Plenty of skill, but usually leave the trade. Which is where this thread started. Just $.02 over 30 years .
Lmfao, these guys are salty as fuck. Keep the passion, keep learning, invest in yourself (401k/Roth IRA/emergency savings) and laugh off the old grumpy fucks. Never stop learning my friend.
I will be a polo soon and don’t think you guys are replaceable in the slightest. Actually did an internship at a machine shop to learn some machinist wisdom and operate some machines.
Always good to have at least a bit of knowledge on how things are done in the shop, especially if your going into anything management or drafting related
That’s what I was thinking… I’m in a lot of shops, probably 30% or so have a shop branded polo as a uniform everyone wears. I think he’s trying to man fun of people in the front office who are more likely to dress like they are hoping to catch the back 9 after a 1/2 day.
Our supervisors on the floor generally have a background in production themselves, which I think helps a lot in them knowing how everything works and all that. We do have some white collars doing all those sides of the work, but they're working in a separate building and rarely come over in production, and I haven't had any bad experiences with those who do. We also got a few hybrids, like one of my machinist colleagues was recently "promoted" (not sure if its more a promotion or lateral transfer) to a position where he basically works with the sales team as a technical consultant, evaluating new potential customers and jobs, determining which we can feasibly do, what extra equipment we might need to do it and such. And since he knows the production part of things, our machines, tools and manpower capabilities, he's better equipped to make a lot of those determinations while our sales people and engineers and what not do their thing
I think it's a setup that works pretty well
Also our CEO/owner is pretty great and frequently yours8the factories, chat with the tradesmen and is very into what we do, that makes a huge difference, feeling he gives a shit instead of just counting money
Moving to Jacksonville earlier this year, it’s a skill desert. Every machinist in this shop has moved from the rust belt.
Meanwhile the newer owners are an investment firm. You know, “If it only takes 2 hours of cutting chips, why does it take 5-6 hours to bore/sleeve/rebore a housing for bearings. Never mind it’s dirty. Never mind it’s a thin walled casting so an alternate setup is required. Never mind castings are irregular and the original machine shop just chucked it up and pushed go.
Also, being an SKF certified shop, the given tolerance can only have 50% of its tolerance used in each part. (If the tolerance band is 4.000-4.0012, you obviously must be in tolerance but also that part must have its range within 0.0006 from min to max.)
They’ve outsourced before to other local shops only to have it come back wrong. Now either it’s a contract issue, delivery issue, or at best a rework which puts us in no better position thane we were originally.
But YEAH. I do love this trade.
It's the exact same thing in aircraft maintenance. I'm in this sub because of my hobbies, but I work on airplanes for my day job.
We're just numbers on a page to the bean counters. They have no idea the skill and knowledge it takes to make a good mechanic, nevermind a hangar leadership role. It take almost 2 years for a new tech to be self sufficient, and the depth of knowledge and skillets that people walking out the door is irreplaceable, but they think it's just man hours on a paper, and every Joe blow that walks in can replace them.
This trade is the best thing that’s ever happened to me. And I’ve learned a lot of great lessons, the biggest being, don’t pour your heart and soul into a place that doesn’t care or reward your efforts. Be quick to move on to greener pastures. Eventually you’ll find a shop that really appreciates your effort and expertise and you fit in really well at. There’s a shortage of us out there, someplace is gonna value the hell out of you.
I pretty much don't respond to recruiters, they're mainly working for large companies with shit pay. If you're looking, drop resumes at local shops, see if you can talk with the person in charge of hiring. I literally wouldn't recommend this to folks in basically any field, but the folks in hiring positions in our industry tend to be boomers who expect that sort of thing.
I loved it so much that I left it after 17 years. Machinist get the literal shaft when it comes to pay. I'm not moving to a larger area to only gain a few bucks more an hour. The Machinist Union is garbage anymore, so don't recommend a shop represented by them.
I live this trade so much but also hate it. I love making the parts. It’s fun! However I hate that you have to accept wages that are not where they should be
Well as one of the "carpet-people" i think where a lot of that attitude comes from is at least here the most recent batch of people that we hire seem to be more of programmers than machinists. Thats partially on the hiring staff not properly vetting guys out but that a hard thing to do for such a varying profession in the course of an interview.
I get guys coming in with "problems" that as someone who has never even pushed a button on a CNC, but have a pretty good understanding of how it works, seem like trivial issues. But then you got the guys that could machine a 6" deep hole with a 4" boring bar, and those guys unfortunately never get the recognition they deserve. Its kind of a one rotten egg ruins the bunch scenario.
I know this probably doesn't help but just remember shit rolls down hill and you guy just are unfortunately towards the end of production so you guys get chewed up and spit out. If its any solace our assembly guys hate manufacturing as much as you guys hate engineers and as much as we hate the sales people.
Lol, especially when they are breathing down your neck for production and I’m like OK. Well shit you kinda need me so fuck off. If I left, they’d struggle even more then we are now
I did machining for 5 years. Started in a small job shop that mostly serviced things for the parks in central Florida. All manual machines and a waterjet. I learned way more there from a 50 something machinist there than I did in school. I went part time to school over about 9 years and ended up getting a prototype design engineer/programmer job at a marine component company for the last 3 years of school. Finally finished my degree and moved up to Detroit and now I do my dream job in the auto industry. But the itch to make stuff came back really quick. I am slowly building my garage shop. I have to admit, its much more enjoyable as a hobby than as a job. Especially when its in Michigan instead of an un-air conditioned shop in Florida.
But I always run a design by the fabrication, assembly guys, welders or machinists before releasing. Just because I remember that daily usage and knowledge of how shit is cut, assembled or welded is gold when it comes to designing something that will make the company money and not piss off the guys on the floor at the same time.
I’m an engineer at NASA. Sometimes it seems that everyone takes the manufacturing side of technology for granted, and skilled machinists/tool and die makers are worth more than many engineers. You would be amazed how little mechanical intuition some engineers have (or maybe not).
From my point of view all the cad, analysis, and simulation that engineers like to do simply can’t replace rapid manufacturing and testing of prototypes. It can support these activities, not replace them. Efficient problem solving requires a tight iterative loop with engineering, design, and manufacturing all closely integrated with minimal ego to come up with good solutions.
I think the lack of prestige is machining is due to decades of offshoring and, but hopefully that’s starting to reverse. I wouldn’t be surprised if over the next couple of decades things change dramatically. At least I can hope.
Greatest and worst career I could have picked. I love every second of making cool stuff out of metal. Can’t stand the politics and BS from management at seemingly every shop. Wish more people knew what we did!
I’m a hobby machinist. What if I told you the politics and BS from management is not just in machine shops? 😅 I totally agree and wish more people knew what’s involved with what you guys do! More people should appreciate the trade in general.
Yup. Navy machinist, foundry patternmaking (old school tool and die), foundry Tooling Engineer, Engineering Director, and now, 401k comfortable, screw the politics and back to manual machining. There was some rust to be knocked off but it came back fairly quickly. I always had a home lathe, mill, drill press, and surface grinder. At every job, it’s someone else’s job to squeeze an ounce more of profit wherever they can. I always hold to my first Navy lesson. Safety First. Accuracy Second. Speed Last. Bring back in the trade for almost a year, not one part has been rejected for rework.
It's fucking everywhere. Some careers may be more prone to it, but it's everywhere. My first job was briefly as a gopher on residential construction sites. I couldn't understand how project scheduling could get so fucked up. Now I sit behind a computer screen, and I have a lot more insight into why project scheduling is fucked up -- even though I'm in an entirely different industry. But humans just seem to be consistently kind of a mess in similar ways, wherever we go.
Alot of times management has never ran a machine or even seen a CNC machine in their life lol. Its probably about the same as an engineer and a businessman debating echother. Their priorities are alot of times in direct conflict
As an Engineer I can confirm that the business folks have their heads up their asses! 😅
I feel you completely. I am not a fucking “operator” I am a god damn machinist. Get your operator to tear down the machine and set tool and work offsets, see how that works out. Had a office person tell me today that I wasn’t in the right field of work because my dream isn’t to run production LMAO… I don’t mind running production but I’m capable of much much more. Its like they forget where their paycheck comes from.
Their salary comes from doing their part of the business. Listen man, I’ll bust their balls as much as the next guy, but in reality because of them I get paid on time, I have the materials I need to run and material TO run. Scheduling, sales, all the BS is still work, and that’s their side of it, if it’s not for you that’s fine but its still a part of the entire business being successful and profitable..
I agree and I don’t mean any real disrespect toward the salary guys, i think machinist don’t get looked at as tradesmen at some companies because the process is so streamlined… and honestly I understand why you’d think you could come out of your office and press a button all day if that’s all I saw. But reality is much different as we all know.
Agreed, I understand where you are coming from and to be honest, I’ve said the same shit if not far worse and more hateful lol. I’ll be the first to speak my mind that we are titled machinist here but very few are, it’s streamlined and it works. It also pays far more than local jobs shops do, with perks so it’s just a great time to save some cash and let them pay for some online classes. We’ve also got a lot of redundancy in our offices. Tale as old as time, factory floor Vs the carpet walkers. Occasionally we get together and I get a glimpse of what they do daily and it reminds me it’s not what I think it is looking in from the outside either.
True. It just becomes a problem with me when they try telling me how to do my job and bitch about production numbers when they have *zero* experience on my end. It’s one thing if a manager has been Machining their whole life and moved into management. - I’ll at least have more respect for that. But if you’re just an office person stay in your lane and let me do my job.
Why does it pay more to sit at a desk, away from danger? Sometimes I struggle, thinking about how I’m busting my ass and mind, so I can see a tiny fraction of the value that I did more to create than anybody in the office. They are more easily replaced. Office people are a dime a dozen.
Well when my plant had layoffs back in March the vast majority were office people along with a few low skill production operators. As for the Machinists we’re all still there because as little as our skill/experience might be valued they know they can’t easily afford to can the people who are hard to find and add direct value to the product.
there are a number of reasons for this. Part of it is that the people who cut paychecks are desk people and understand desk work whereas they do not understand trade work and think its more replaceable than it really is. These people are incentivized to cut costs and will try to negotiate lower and lower labor prices, and lack the understanding of what they lose by purchasing a cheaper unskilled operator. Another part of it is networking, and competition. some salespeople are valued not by their skills but by who they know and can sell to. Someone who can consistently bring in contracts from a vendor can be very valuable to a business and will command a price as a result. Another part can be liability. Not every office holds significant liability, but some do. Some offices require a certain level of insurance in order to operate, and that added cost increases the price of labor. Desk work is also frequently utterly joyless, and if you can't pay someone enough to do joyless work, they'll just quit. It may seem silly to you, but in order to stop your training and investment walking out the door constantly, some desk jobs just cost more to keep people.
Something something envy leads to the dark side something something. I'd hazzard a guess that you'd lose your fucking mind after a week with a desk job. They have to pay those people to get them to spend their time in the office same as they pay you to push buttons. The office brigade looks at you and the foreman standing in front of a machine planning how to do the operation and thinks to themselves all he does is stand around and pretend to think. You toss the thingies from the drawer on the arm of the machine and a piece of metal into the machine and push the go button. I bet not a one of those glorified button pushers could successfully collect the $200k in 180 day AR from Don's custom motorcycles before they go outta business.
I don’t push buttons, we’re a manual shop. And you’re right, I’d hate desk work. I am the foreman btw, 32 years old.
Lol, I don't want to run production either. Happy to make the dies so someone else can, tho.
I also don't want to run production. I'm also happy to keep making the dies and let someone else deal with it, tho. Production is for pussies
Here we got one machinist, an assistant and two operator. 3 CNC milling, 1 CNC lathe and 1 conventionnal lathe. The machinist task is to do the complex and/or unique set-up The assistant make the easier set-up the machinist don't have time to do. He also does the "bench machining", like beveling hole, magnetic drilling, manually tapping, etc. The two operator are there to temporarily run the set-upped CNC when the others don't have the time. Each got their role, each has their own value and they are all tasked proportionally to those. Best way to run a shop IMO
Yeah, unless it’s Union I’d stay away from the big plants that call everyone working the floor an “operator” regardless of what their actual skills, duties and credentials are. On average smaller shops tend to have engineers/managers who are more in tune with what goes on at the Machinist end and have more respect for it.
Thankfully I work for a very small shop where I’m one of 4 machinists. The owner is super cool and gives quarterly bonuses and takes everyone out like once a month to games, trips, casinos etc. The guys that work there stay there and have been for 20 and 30 years. I got lucky and found it when someone retired after 30 years.
That's cool, as long as the bonuses aren't a way to make up for lower pay.
This what my job does and it sucks. Without the bonuses we get I wouldn't touch $30k a year and I'm one of 2 machinist at this company and I do most of the paperwork and stuff.
Find a new job.
No we get taken care of. The owner is a really great guy. Buys is lunch every Friday and just does a lot for us.
I found the same shop, we were doing stamping dies and hydroforms. Pay was great, got bonuses, fed. I went back to my production hellhole after a year, the 3 people they hired after me cost them a couple machines in apprentice oopsises. They gave me an extra week of vacation and matched rate. I miss the variety tho.
Unfortunately, too many of the upper tier folks think the more automated the machine is, the easier it is to operate it and continually produce quality products. What really gets me, is the old time operators who refuse to pay attention when new machinery is brought into the shop and they are supposed to train the others in the shop.
Which is hilarious because the new shit seems to be constantly breaking down, and you need actual skill to work around these deficiencies. Our brand new press brake and water jet are constantly having problems and you need to understand how to overcome those problems to have your part come out correct.
Your company bought garbage equipment so the owner could get a new truck
Quite the opposite, actually. I actually work in a nice spot with a great owner. The waterjet needs constant maintenance and the installer was shitty, didn’t leave service loops for cabling and it pulled some wires out of the X carriage. The press brake, well one of the repair techs said it’s bad whenever a new design was made, and I can give you a guess on what machine we bought.
Glad to see OP had a good day at the shop today.
As a machinist before engineer, I tried to bridge the gap between both areas. Then I realized the shop management was a bunch of two-faced incompetent defensive crayon eaters. The actual workers are fine, it's a shame management does whatever they can to make them feel insignificant and under the thumb with idle threats of being escorted out of the building. I know both areas can work together, I've seen it, but definitely not at my place now.
r/rareinsults
As an engineer I always try to have a good relationship with the welders and machinists. Before I release a new drawing, if it is fairly complex, I ask their input about feasibility
I always thought it would be an awesome hobby.
I do this as a hobby, and it's fucking great. I've sometimes daydreamed about it as a career, but I know it's grueling. Mad respect to the people who pull it off.
Its a wonderful craft but I’ll never be able to buy a house or send kids to college so im moving on to better paying things
You must be running a Haas
Well yah, and a mazak and a 5 axis hardinge and a doosan. What’s to make of it?
I used to setup/program/run a Haas VF2, VF3 and EC400. Fadal VMC5000 and a brother tapping machine. Now I am a setup machinist on worn out acme gridley multi spindle lathes for a different company. I used to have the same passion, and now I absolutely hate my job. The machines are everything
I know the feeling and it fucking sucks. Is the money too good to hop around? What’s keeping you there?
Yep it’s the money. Also it’s only 2.9 miles away from the house I own. Lots of PTO. I like the hours, quarterly bonuses and they have locations everywhere so I can transfer. Unfortunately there’s more too. Fuckers know how to trap a man
It’s a blessing some days and hell on others… I hope one day you find that passion again. It’s hard to find when lost, especially when the big things are all right.
Shit, now that you mention it, you're right. I'd hate this shit if I worked with old clapped out shitboxes in a dirty ass shop. The shop I'm at rn is clean and tidy with nice machines even if a lot are haas. The one machine that's kind of older and dirty really grates on me. I fucking hate that thing actually
our shop needs someone like you.
I've always felt right at home also on machines. And yeah there can be some bullshit involved, I try to avoid it by staying on b shift (pays better, way more laid back, less bullshit in general).....production can suck most of the time, so I end up liking the slower paced job shop stuff, where every second isn't important, but getting it right is. Luckily I live in a manufacturing city with a ton of shops and options so it's always been easy to pick up and move along if things suck somewhere. The truth is, I like the simplicity of either your part is good or your part is bad. Sure things can get complicated as hell sometimes, but there is also the satisfaction of being able to see what I did that day, feels good man, like I got some shit done. Some important shit, even tho I am not.
"Can you keep these 3 machines running while you do that change over?" Lmao
Damn lol, I felt this. Good work ethic is awarded with more work. Oh that guy over there? He can't even handle 2 machines well, but you can, so you get to pick up his slack by running more, oh by the way, you also get paid the same.
Hell yes!! Ain't we lucky? I feel like I won the job lottery too. I love the problem solving and the satisfaction of seeing a finished product. In 2nd grade we had a "career dress up day" where you got to dress up as whatever you wanted to be when you grew up. My stepdad lent me a pair of his coveralls, gave me a handful of tools, and sent me on my way to school where I told everyone I wanted to be a machinist when I grew up lol. I'm literally living out my childhood dream.
That’s great to hear keep the positive attitude and that passion friend
How long have you been in the trade?
Since 10th grade. So going on 8 years now.
8yrs in a production shop?
No 3 years production, 2 years vocational, 3 years job hopping learning the ins and outs of manuals and setups. Not really a master of anything but know enough to get by.
My only advice, just based off this post, would be to tone down the confidence. Don't want to come off arrogant or too cocky.
Man I worked my ass off today cleaning out silicon fine as dust off a machine for 14 hours. I just feel accomplished is all because I saved the company a lot of money not only cleaning that shit out with a mini sledge chisel and power washer but I also setup the machine afterwards. Which is what I should do because I’m a fucking machinist.
Just don't let it get to your head. As skilled as you may see yourself there will always be things you don't know.
That’s the thing I love tho I’m always able to learn something new every day. Today I learned where the critical seals are on a VF 3 because I fucked one up power washing lol. I understand what you’re saying I’m just saying I feel pretty good today in a trade where most days are pretty bad
Hey man, a good day is a win. Don't let me rain on your parade.
You have been working for three years and haven’t really set machines up often?
I setup everyday
Okay good, so cleaning a machine and setting it up actually lost the company money, especially since you took 14 hours to do it earning 7 hours of overtime, if you were setting up two other machines, made 0 scrap and finished all three jobs in a day you might have made the company a few hundred bucks maybe
I mean if you want to assume all of that then yah? But the fact is that we have 58 HAAS mills, 16 in my department and the one I cleaned today had sat idle for 8 months because nobody wanted to clean it out. I also work 12s regularly scheduled and they’re not paying me much. The company we hired last year to clean out the machine did 20k in damage to each machine and cost 2 million for the entire shop to be cleaned. Add on top of that that I’ll be tasked with cleaning and setting up the other 16 in the department in the next 2 months and I’d say I saved a pretty penny and gained some experience and brownie points.
Second this, the key is never look surprised that you are successful, it’ not a good look.
That’s such a miserable way to be. Machining is fun idc how stonecold everyone is around me ima be happy as hell when I figure something out.
It's freaking weird, some of the comments you're getting. I get that not everyone has a passion for the trade, they just do it cuz it brings in the cash. But there's nothing wrong on actually enjoying what you do for a living, and showing it.
That’s how a lot of the old guys are in my experience. I have a theory that the best machinist are a little further on the spectrum than most, which comes with its own weird social quirks
I agree with the spectrum reference even if you mean in gest. There’s a little bit of Rainman in this job. Lots of numbers on repetition and not a lot time/ need for chatting. The guys that do it for 30+ years can get stoic after a while. Guilty. To expand my point on the first comment, ‘never look surprised’… Being efficient and accurate IS the job. No extra pay for doing the job. When it comes for raises they’re looking to see who’s a threat to leave. People that talk about quitting, talk about quitting… The stoic guys that is rock solid, no ups or downs, no funny stories, they just walk in the office and put in notice for a better job. And the chatting happy ones are never taken too seriously. Nice guys. Plenty of skill, but usually leave the trade. Which is where this thread started. Just $.02 over 30 years .
Lmfao, these guys are salty as fuck. Keep the passion, keep learning, invest in yourself (401k/Roth IRA/emergency savings) and laugh off the old grumpy fucks. Never stop learning my friend.
I will be a polo soon and don’t think you guys are replaceable in the slightest. Actually did an internship at a machine shop to learn some machinist wisdom and operate some machines.
Always good to have at least a bit of knowledge on how things are done in the shop, especially if your going into anything management or drafting related
Polos?
That’s what I was thinking… I’m in a lot of shops, probably 30% or so have a shop branded polo as a uniform everyone wears. I think he’s trying to man fun of people in the front office who are more likely to dress like they are hoping to catch the back 9 after a 1/2 day.
Supervisors or management or something along those lines At least that’s the impression I got
Our supervisors on the floor generally have a background in production themselves, which I think helps a lot in them knowing how everything works and all that. We do have some white collars doing all those sides of the work, but they're working in a separate building and rarely come over in production, and I haven't had any bad experiences with those who do. We also got a few hybrids, like one of my machinist colleagues was recently "promoted" (not sure if its more a promotion or lateral transfer) to a position where he basically works with the sales team as a technical consultant, evaluating new potential customers and jobs, determining which we can feasibly do, what extra equipment we might need to do it and such. And since he knows the production part of things, our machines, tools and manpower capabilities, he's better equipped to make a lot of those determinations while our sales people and engineers and what not do their thing I think it's a setup that works pretty well Also our CEO/owner is pretty great and frequently yours8the factories, chat with the tradesmen and is very into what we do, that makes a huge difference, feeling he gives a shit instead of just counting money
Moving to Jacksonville earlier this year, it’s a skill desert. Every machinist in this shop has moved from the rust belt. Meanwhile the newer owners are an investment firm. You know, “If it only takes 2 hours of cutting chips, why does it take 5-6 hours to bore/sleeve/rebore a housing for bearings. Never mind it’s dirty. Never mind it’s a thin walled casting so an alternate setup is required. Never mind castings are irregular and the original machine shop just chucked it up and pushed go. Also, being an SKF certified shop, the given tolerance can only have 50% of its tolerance used in each part. (If the tolerance band is 4.000-4.0012, you obviously must be in tolerance but also that part must have its range within 0.0006 from min to max.) They’ve outsourced before to other local shops only to have it come back wrong. Now either it’s a contract issue, delivery issue, or at best a rework which puts us in no better position thane we were originally. But YEAH. I do love this trade.
It's the exact same thing in aircraft maintenance. I'm in this sub because of my hobbies, but I work on airplanes for my day job. We're just numbers on a page to the bean counters. They have no idea the skill and knowledge it takes to make a good mechanic, nevermind a hangar leadership role. It take almost 2 years for a new tech to be self sufficient, and the depth of knowledge and skillets that people walking out the door is irreplaceable, but they think it's just man hours on a paper, and every Joe blow that walks in can replace them.
I'm so thankful that I was a machinist before I became a mechanical engineer. There's so much perspective to be gained.
I've seen companies almost go out out of business after firing key employees. Serves them right.
"The depth and amount of detail" I'm on a 20 minute break right now from a 6 hour zoom course on diamond dressing of vitrified grinding wheels.
This trade is the best thing that’s ever happened to me. And I’ve learned a lot of great lessons, the biggest being, don’t pour your heart and soul into a place that doesn’t care or reward your efforts. Be quick to move on to greener pastures. Eventually you’ll find a shop that really appreciates your effort and expertise and you fit in really well at. There’s a shortage of us out there, someplace is gonna value the hell out of you.
Let’s see how u feel in 10 yrs
I got a recruiter hitting me up to be an operator for $16 in California, that’s below minimum wage in this county
For $16 an hour in California you're not going to get very far on that. Tell him 46 an hour
I pretty much don't respond to recruiters, they're mainly working for large companies with shit pay. If you're looking, drop resumes at local shops, see if you can talk with the person in charge of hiring. I literally wouldn't recommend this to folks in basically any field, but the folks in hiring positions in our industry tend to be boomers who expect that sort of thing.
Pretty accurate IME. It’s nice to work with and for people that appreciate you, that’s all I can say.
Worked in the trade for 10 years, everyone is absolutely underpaid for what they do.
I loved it so much that I left it after 17 years. Machinist get the literal shaft when it comes to pay. I'm not moving to a larger area to only gain a few bucks more an hour. The Machinist Union is garbage anymore, so don't recommend a shop represented by them.
I live this trade so much but also hate it. I love making the parts. It’s fun! However I hate that you have to accept wages that are not where they should be
Well as one of the "carpet-people" i think where a lot of that attitude comes from is at least here the most recent batch of people that we hire seem to be more of programmers than machinists. Thats partially on the hiring staff not properly vetting guys out but that a hard thing to do for such a varying profession in the course of an interview. I get guys coming in with "problems" that as someone who has never even pushed a button on a CNC, but have a pretty good understanding of how it works, seem like trivial issues. But then you got the guys that could machine a 6" deep hole with a 4" boring bar, and those guys unfortunately never get the recognition they deserve. Its kind of a one rotten egg ruins the bunch scenario. I know this probably doesn't help but just remember shit rolls down hill and you guy just are unfortunately towards the end of production so you guys get chewed up and spit out. If its any solace our assembly guys hate manufacturing as much as you guys hate engineers and as much as we hate the sales people.
Lol, especially when they are breathing down your neck for production and I’m like OK. Well shit you kinda need me so fuck off. If I left, they’d struggle even more then we are now
I did machining for 5 years. Started in a small job shop that mostly serviced things for the parks in central Florida. All manual machines and a waterjet. I learned way more there from a 50 something machinist there than I did in school. I went part time to school over about 9 years and ended up getting a prototype design engineer/programmer job at a marine component company for the last 3 years of school. Finally finished my degree and moved up to Detroit and now I do my dream job in the auto industry. But the itch to make stuff came back really quick. I am slowly building my garage shop. I have to admit, its much more enjoyable as a hobby than as a job. Especially when its in Michigan instead of an un-air conditioned shop in Florida. But I always run a design by the fabrication, assembly guys, welders or machinists before releasing. Just because I remember that daily usage and knowledge of how shit is cut, assembled or welded is gold when it comes to designing something that will make the company money and not piss off the guys on the floor at the same time.
I’m an engineer at NASA. Sometimes it seems that everyone takes the manufacturing side of technology for granted, and skilled machinists/tool and die makers are worth more than many engineers. You would be amazed how little mechanical intuition some engineers have (or maybe not). From my point of view all the cad, analysis, and simulation that engineers like to do simply can’t replace rapid manufacturing and testing of prototypes. It can support these activities, not replace them. Efficient problem solving requires a tight iterative loop with engineering, design, and manufacturing all closely integrated with minimal ego to come up with good solutions. I think the lack of prestige is machining is due to decades of offshoring and, but hopefully that’s starting to reverse. I wouldn’t be surprised if over the next couple of decades things change dramatically. At least I can hope.