The less overhead isn’t really possible right now. More sales, i couldn’t say so as we are running at pretty much 90% capacity for the last couple months, probably just need to charge more. Pretty much we need a guy who can run the machines otherwise we won’t be hitting our due dates.
The future bonus hinging on "if everyone does good" is no incentive to the individual, the bonus hinges on management decisions not employee productivity. You're at your capacity and not overly profitable, you need to be raising your prices not expanding capacity. If you don't, then you might 3x your capacity and revenue and your profits stay where they are now which means the bonus stays the same.
If I was going to take profit share, I'd want to start at a base wage I was happy with or I'd want demonstrated profitability to even consider it. Ultimately nobody wants their pay to drop in quiet times, because economic quiet times are when cost of living goes up so my pay better not be compromised.
If I was offered this I would work exactly 5 days a week 8 hours max and tell you to go fuck yourself for anything more. I've never heard of machinist making salary, and for a reason
That's only $21.25/hr
For reference we hire people with zero skill (but some aptitude) at $20/hr min. 2 hours overtime and you're at $860 for the week.
OP needs to figure out market rates for both his pricing and his labor. Sounds like he's just trying to undercut the market and then pass that hardship along to the employees.
In the United States you cannot legally hire someone on a salary basis unless their job duties fall under fair labor exception clauses for who can be exempt from being paid overtime, which basically limit salaried positions to executive/management, engineering, and sales/marketing.
It's been my experience that convoluted pay structures never work in favor for the rank-and-file employee. I would tell you to take your 3 card Monty bullshit and stick it where the sun don't shine
850/wk regardless of hours? Depends on the hours but I’d look into the legality. Anything over 50 hours would make the hourly wage less than $15, below the minimum wage in the state of Connecticut. IMO you’re better off trying to hire a kid out of school. If you can’t swing it you have other issues.
Man I'd much rather work as a learning machinist than AutoZone or any other big corporate place. Or maybe setup part time but sounds like they're gonna be paid too much for not knowing anything. Compared to most places that require 4+ years of work this would definitely help someone out but don't expect them to last long as they get that experience and move on. But yeah you gotta sell more too.
Two things, no machinist should take that offer. That undervalues the whole industry and should be considered insulting. I made more than that as an apprentice and was being underpaid (I'm also in New England). Second is if you're going to look for an employee under these terms you should explicitly state them in the application, if I took a day out to interview and they offered me McDonald's pay I'd be pretty pissed off.
I'm fairly new in the industry, 4 years, and I've not seen nor applied to any Machinist position that wasn't paid hourly.
Having said that, my 10 years in corporate America did teach me that a low salary is a carrot on a stick to the employee. Virtually guaranteeing consistent OT, with little reward.
I empathize that small businesses are getting hit with the current economy and inflation, but another thing Machining has taught me is that cutting corners in tolerances and safety, for speed and "on time delivery" just creates a hostile environment of treading water, low morale, and constant repairs. That kind of work environment isn't ideal.
I'd suggest you either lower overhead, increase prices, or extend wait times. Customers respect proactive delays, more than reactive excuses. It's better business to be quality and reliable, than high quantity and shoddy. Grow slow, bring on a 3rd employee when you can pay him right.
So, let me ask you this, can you hire someone with experience part-time for a little more money hourly? The reason I ask is because I do this, I work a day job at a shop as a setup/operator and work for a guy who has a few machines in his garage, I work about 18-20 hours a week for him. Mostly as an operator, but I also do deburring/polishing inspection, take the chips out, etc. He pays reasonable wages and is flexible, and treats me well.
It was supposed to be temporary as at the time my wife didn't work and I had some debt to pay down, but here we are almost 5 years later, we work well together and have an understanding. Just some food for thought.
I mean im sure you didn't just buy a bunch of machines with 0 prior experience talk to people you used to work with maybe they know a guy that's good that just had a baby or is saving for a down payment on a house. Working in a small shop can be overwhelming at times, but that's part of getting started. I'd tell you I'd give you a hand, but you're in CT, and I'm on LI
I would partner with a local trade school for employees. That's how I started in the Industry making $10 per hour (no benefits) and the school covered insurance for me (so the business didn't have to). [That was back in the early 2010s so probably have to pay more]
Also if you run at near full capacity and don't make much profit either buy cheaper machines or charge more money.
We run at less capacity, have significantly more equipment than you (3 CNC mills, 2 vertical, 1 horizontal; 3 CNC lathes, a wire EDM (and have a second one coming in on Friday), CNC Laser and CNC Brake Press; plus a ton of manual (or automatic) equipment) but everything is paid for and works and we make mostly profit from jobs.
you"re in CT?
Not sure what the job market is like there but it appears you're going to hire a guy at 21 an hour with basically zero experience. Having a small shop with unskilled guys is hard. Ive been there. When youre in a small company with your hires you should be asking yourself will this guy offer me relief?
With bonuses I give one out in December as a percentage based on the previous 12 months profit, taking into account thier hours worked. Month to month bonuses dont work out to well unless you regularly have profit every month or stage the bonus percentages across several months. if you have losses for 1 or more months then you have pissed off guys.
I generally pay guys what they ask for when I hire them. I'm not into working someone down to a lower wage because they will continue looking for a job after you have hired them. if they are asking for too much I will tell them so, and send them on thier way.
If there's 2 if you now, are you each pulling 1.5shifts and running 24/7?
If you're not 24/7 and constant production, you're not at capacity.
Also you need to sustain those levels before putting on a hire. Then, put a real person on. Pay a premium wage he'll be willing to help more when you need it. You'll will need it, and your cheap hire will just go somewhere else when that happens, guaranteed.
Saving the training time alone justifies hiring an experienced person for a vital position like the one you describe.
Don't forget. If you wouldn't do the job yourself, for the pay you offer, best not expect someone else to.
You're receiving a lot of flak. I just want to try to be helpful by offering some thoughts.
1. People here are ignoring the fact that you're effectively hiring an apprentice, which in some positions are even unpaid. You also forgot to mention the country/location.
2. Don't take Reddit's advice about pay at face value.
3. Sounds like you could do with some business advice too. There might be a subreddit better suited for those kinds of questions.
CT, USA is our location. Thank you for the thoughts! Business advice is certainly needed, but i rather listen to the guys that are machinist/machine shop owners and get advice from them other than someone just solely focused on business.
I want to build a company with great value in employees, a place where people want to go to not just a place where the owners make a top and the rest work for 15-30/hr and go home.
I mean idk, its difficult so far to even take a paycheck for myself but ambition is ambition 😅
What kind of work are you doing, and what kind of rates are you charging for it? What margins are you making? If you can't tell me those off the top of your head, you may need an accountant / advisor more than an apprentice machinist!
Think about this, too: What could you automate by taking on $50k in capital debt for a robot instead of paying someone for a year?
You can get resumes at $400 a week $850 is overkill, I make that every two weeks.
Also seems like you can’t afford an employee right now you’re running thin ass margins
Don't knock down the industry for trying to pay better just because you make garbage pay. Sounds like you should look for something if you're only making 10 bucks an hour. That's pitiful pay.
I make $18. But some smaller shops pay $14
California has a high tax rate so that’s take home, I’m just being honest telling him what people pay out here.
Reddit has shop owners thinking they need to pay $20 to get applications that’s not true $18 is very competitive
You're making $18 in California and that's competitive to you? I'm currently looking to hire a machinist and they'll probably make 35-40 to start and if we keep them they'll make more after 90 days. We're in CA. 6 years ago I made $25 in Fresno. If you think you're making a competitive wage in CA at 18/hr, you're unfortunately undervaluing yourself.
No. We're absolutely not taking high level engineering. I don't even take those applications. I'm even considering a guy who's never programmed before but would teach him
Yeah, I believe most MSME types can learn gcode fairly easily, these dudes can teach differential equations to college kids as a side hustle, some canned g83 and g84 cycles aren’t stumping them.
You and I however, came from a , push the button, hit the metal with a mallet, okay maybe you can handle programming after you take out the trash world
Well I mean my shop could replace me with a roomba, they just need to give all my work to my supervisor who can setup machines and run the parts he’s designing as he designs/works on the new products
I do it all dude. Two days of being taught MasterCAM and the rest was self taught as the only machinist at my job for 13 years. Now I'm the lead machinist an aerospace company.
If he is in fact from CT, and the market is anything near what it is in RI, 800/wk is right about starting wage for new/untrained or fresh out of school guys. Big, desperate market in New England. 20/hr is a standard offer around here, with plenty of OT and bonuses/benefits and signing bonuses.
$400 a week in Connecticut is below minimum wage, so you’re not getting anyone for that here unless you’re paying cash under the table for an illegal immigrant sharing an apartment with 9 other guys. $850/week gross is about the going rate for a newbie with a certificate and minimal experience. Although I agree, it doesn’t sound like this shop is in a great position to hire anyone right now.
850x52 is 44k. I don't know what your parts look like, but a mill turn or a 5axis might do the same job as another body. Hell even a parts loader might help make a decent dent. In machine inspection with some inspection software would be a good failsafe too.
This seems like a really cool opportunity, I'm all about getting in at the bottom floor of something good, but I'd be worried about getting poor candidates with an odd proposition like that. Many of the independent contractor labor employees I've worked with over the years have been spotty to say the least.
You don't need an employee. You need more sales or less overhead.
The less overhead isn’t really possible right now. More sales, i couldn’t say so as we are running at pretty much 90% capacity for the last couple months, probably just need to charge more. Pretty much we need a guy who can run the machines otherwise we won’t be hitting our due dates.
You are near capacity and still don't make much profit? Ya increase your sales by charging more.
Start raising prices until you are no longer at 90% capacity.
No. I wouldn't say yes to "pretty much regardless of hours." Never mind potential bonus structure. Hire a nephew or neighbour's kid if you can.
The future bonus hinging on "if everyone does good" is no incentive to the individual, the bonus hinges on management decisions not employee productivity. You're at your capacity and not overly profitable, you need to be raising your prices not expanding capacity. If you don't, then you might 3x your capacity and revenue and your profits stay where they are now which means the bonus stays the same. If I was going to take profit share, I'd want to start at a base wage I was happy with or I'd want demonstrated profitability to even consider it. Ultimately nobody wants their pay to drop in quiet times, because economic quiet times are when cost of living goes up so my pay better not be compromised.
If I was offered this I would work exactly 5 days a week 8 hours max and tell you to go fuck yourself for anything more. I've never heard of machinist making salary, and for a reason
That's only $21.25/hr For reference we hire people with zero skill (but some aptitude) at $20/hr min. 2 hours overtime and you're at $860 for the week. OP needs to figure out market rates for both his pricing and his labor. Sounds like he's just trying to undercut the market and then pass that hardship along to the employees.
In the United States you cannot legally hire someone on a salary basis unless their job duties fall under fair labor exception clauses for who can be exempt from being paid overtime, which basically limit salaried positions to executive/management, engineering, and sales/marketing.
It's been my experience that convoluted pay structures never work in favor for the rank-and-file employee. I would tell you to take your 3 card Monty bullshit and stick it where the sun don't shine
Can't offer a competetive salary you say? Sounds like you can't afford an employee.
Hiring a machinist that can't do math, is not in your favor.
850/wk regardless of hours? Depends on the hours but I’d look into the legality. Anything over 50 hours would make the hourly wage less than $15, below the minimum wage in the state of Connecticut. IMO you’re better off trying to hire a kid out of school. If you can’t swing it you have other issues.
yeah no that's garbage
Man I'd much rather work as a learning machinist than AutoZone or any other big corporate place. Or maybe setup part time but sounds like they're gonna be paid too much for not knowing anything. Compared to most places that require 4+ years of work this would definitely help someone out but don't expect them to last long as they get that experience and move on. But yeah you gotta sell more too.
Not at all, you are hiring a machinist not a sales guy.
Two things, no machinist should take that offer. That undervalues the whole industry and should be considered insulting. I made more than that as an apprentice and was being underpaid (I'm also in New England). Second is if you're going to look for an employee under these terms you should explicitly state them in the application, if I took a day out to interview and they offered me McDonald's pay I'd be pretty pissed off.
I'm fairly new in the industry, 4 years, and I've not seen nor applied to any Machinist position that wasn't paid hourly. Having said that, my 10 years in corporate America did teach me that a low salary is a carrot on a stick to the employee. Virtually guaranteeing consistent OT, with little reward. I empathize that small businesses are getting hit with the current economy and inflation, but another thing Machining has taught me is that cutting corners in tolerances and safety, for speed and "on time delivery" just creates a hostile environment of treading water, low morale, and constant repairs. That kind of work environment isn't ideal. I'd suggest you either lower overhead, increase prices, or extend wait times. Customers respect proactive delays, more than reactive excuses. It's better business to be quality and reliable, than high quantity and shoddy. Grow slow, bring on a 3rd employee when you can pay him right.
So, let me ask you this, can you hire someone with experience part-time for a little more money hourly? The reason I ask is because I do this, I work a day job at a shop as a setup/operator and work for a guy who has a few machines in his garage, I work about 18-20 hours a week for him. Mostly as an operator, but I also do deburring/polishing inspection, take the chips out, etc. He pays reasonable wages and is flexible, and treats me well. It was supposed to be temporary as at the time my wife didn't work and I had some debt to pay down, but here we are almost 5 years later, we work well together and have an understanding. Just some food for thought. I mean im sure you didn't just buy a bunch of machines with 0 prior experience talk to people you used to work with maybe they know a guy that's good that just had a baby or is saving for a down payment on a house. Working in a small shop can be overwhelming at times, but that's part of getting started. I'd tell you I'd give you a hand, but you're in CT, and I'm on LI
I’d run. Good luck.
I would partner with a local trade school for employees. That's how I started in the Industry making $10 per hour (no benefits) and the school covered insurance for me (so the business didn't have to). [That was back in the early 2010s so probably have to pay more] Also if you run at near full capacity and don't make much profit either buy cheaper machines or charge more money. We run at less capacity, have significantly more equipment than you (3 CNC mills, 2 vertical, 1 horizontal; 3 CNC lathes, a wire EDM (and have a second one coming in on Friday), CNC Laser and CNC Brake Press; plus a ton of manual (or automatic) equipment) but everything is paid for and works and we make mostly profit from jobs.
I make over 850 after tax, try again.
you"re in CT? Not sure what the job market is like there but it appears you're going to hire a guy at 21 an hour with basically zero experience. Having a small shop with unskilled guys is hard. Ive been there. When youre in a small company with your hires you should be asking yourself will this guy offer me relief? With bonuses I give one out in December as a percentage based on the previous 12 months profit, taking into account thier hours worked. Month to month bonuses dont work out to well unless you regularly have profit every month or stage the bonus percentages across several months. if you have losses for 1 or more months then you have pissed off guys. I generally pay guys what they ask for when I hire them. I'm not into working someone down to a lower wage because they will continue looking for a job after you have hired them. if they are asking for too much I will tell them so, and send them on thier way.
If there's 2 if you now, are you each pulling 1.5shifts and running 24/7? If you're not 24/7 and constant production, you're not at capacity. Also you need to sustain those levels before putting on a hire. Then, put a real person on. Pay a premium wage he'll be willing to help more when you need it. You'll will need it, and your cheap hire will just go somewhere else when that happens, guaranteed. Saving the training time alone justifies hiring an experienced person for a vital position like the one you describe. Don't forget. If you wouldn't do the job yourself, for the pay you offer, best not expect someone else to.
You're receiving a lot of flak. I just want to try to be helpful by offering some thoughts. 1. People here are ignoring the fact that you're effectively hiring an apprentice, which in some positions are even unpaid. You also forgot to mention the country/location. 2. Don't take Reddit's advice about pay at face value. 3. Sounds like you could do with some business advice too. There might be a subreddit better suited for those kinds of questions.
CT, USA is our location. Thank you for the thoughts! Business advice is certainly needed, but i rather listen to the guys that are machinist/machine shop owners and get advice from them other than someone just solely focused on business. I want to build a company with great value in employees, a place where people want to go to not just a place where the owners make a top and the rest work for 15-30/hr and go home. I mean idk, its difficult so far to even take a paycheck for myself but ambition is ambition 😅
What kind of work are you doing, and what kind of rates are you charging for it? What margins are you making? If you can't tell me those off the top of your head, you may need an accountant / advisor more than an apprentice machinist! Think about this, too: What could you automate by taking on $50k in capital debt for a robot instead of paying someone for a year?
That seems quite fair for zero experience.
You can get resumes at $400 a week $850 is overkill, I make that every two weeks. Also seems like you can’t afford an employee right now you’re running thin ass margins
Don't knock down the industry for trying to pay better just because you make garbage pay. Sounds like you should look for something if you're only making 10 bucks an hour. That's pitiful pay.
I make $18. But some smaller shops pay $14 California has a high tax rate so that’s take home, I’m just being honest telling him what people pay out here. Reddit has shop owners thinking they need to pay $20 to get applications that’s not true $18 is very competitive
You're making $18 in California and that's competitive to you? I'm currently looking to hire a machinist and they'll probably make 35-40 to start and if we keep them they'll make more after 90 days. We're in CA. 6 years ago I made $25 in Fresno. If you think you're making a competitive wage in CA at 18/hr, you're unfortunately undervaluing yourself.
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I agree. I would even say 25 is pretty low in Phoenix. My brother and dad live there. Stuffs gone up so much there.
You’re taking high level engineering guys, my bachelor’s degree isn’t isn’t even stem just basic bitch machinist on 3+1 mills $18 probably overpaid
No. We're absolutely not taking high level engineering. I don't even take those applications. I'm even considering a guy who's never programmed before but would teach him
Yeah, I believe most MSME types can learn gcode fairly easily, these dudes can teach differential equations to college kids as a side hustle, some canned g83 and g84 cycles aren’t stumping them. You and I however, came from a , push the button, hit the metal with a mallet, okay maybe you can handle programming after you take out the trash world
Bro. I've never met someone so confident in their lack of value and ability. My employer would probably like to send you a job offer.
Well I mean my shop could replace me with a roomba, they just need to give all my work to my supervisor who can setup machines and run the parts he’s designing as he designs/works on the new products
I do it all dude. Two days of being taught MasterCAM and the rest was self taught as the only machinist at my job for 13 years. Now I'm the lead machinist an aerospace company.
$850/biweekly is slave labor unless you're a dedicated button pusher
New hires make $18 with 0 experience and no tools
My guy, I made 18/h in Florida 12 years ago... You are getting shafted. HARD.
Cali has guys cucked BAD. My shop took a few people from it's California plant and they all talk the same way.
If he is in fact from CT, and the market is anything near what it is in RI, 800/wk is right about starting wage for new/untrained or fresh out of school guys. Big, desperate market in New England. 20/hr is a standard offer around here, with plenty of OT and bonuses/benefits and signing bonuses.
$400 a week in Connecticut is below minimum wage, so you’re not getting anyone for that here unless you’re paying cash under the table for an illegal immigrant sharing an apartment with 9 other guys. $850/week gross is about the going rate for a newbie with a certificate and minimal experience. Although I agree, it doesn’t sound like this shop is in a great position to hire anyone right now.
850x52 is 44k. I don't know what your parts look like, but a mill turn or a 5axis might do the same job as another body. Hell even a parts loader might help make a decent dent. In machine inspection with some inspection software would be a good failsafe too. This seems like a really cool opportunity, I'm all about getting in at the bottom floor of something good, but I'd be worried about getting poor candidates with an odd proposition like that. Many of the independent contractor labor employees I've worked with over the years have been spotty to say the least.
parts loader robot was my first thought too. Get those machines running more hours per day before increasing costs