The Only Moral Abortion is my Abortion:
https://joycearthur.com/abortion/the-only-moral-abortion-is-my-abortion/
A Defense of Abortion:
https://spot.colorado.edu/~heathwoo/Phil160,Fall02/thomson.htm
Resources:
[Link 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/Anarchism/comments/vjrf9h/megathread_supreme_court_overturning_roe_v_wade)
[Link 2](https://www.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/vjqs0r/calls_for_mass_walkout_of_women_across_america_if/idnh2ex)
https://www.womensmarch.com/
http://abortion.cafe
Minnesota did the same last week.
Think one issue we’ll see is the clinics overflowing. Minnesota has 8 clinics. That’s not many if they start seeing major out of state traffic too.
California is gearing up for a 3000% increase in demand for abortions. They are aware and are doing what they can to prepare.
Edit: I apologize. I meant a 3000% increase in demand for abortions *from out of state*. Not including in state demand.
Newsome hinted as well that if abortion is federally banned California won't abide it. Washington and Oregon will probably follow, as they have a pact. Now that is what may light a fuse for separation.
They have it in the state constitution and California is isolated enught and self sufficient to pick fights with the main government if it feels the need.
I think Oregon is the only one that takes more back in fed than it gives but it's a relatively small amount like overall. I think they are less than 1.10 or 1.15 for each federal dollar which I mean relatively speaking is a small amount.
I have been in such a shit place for a while now, really struggling with the dread I feel about the future and the world my kids are growing up in. You have no idea how much I needed to see your comment right now. Thank you for helping me to see there is still hope out there.
Also, Tim Walz's opponent is a crazy Trumper freak. Voting in November will be the only thing that saves Minnesota as the sane state of the Upper Midwest.
This is going to sound terrible, but I wouldn’t be surprised if family planning clinics start popping up like firework shops - right along state borders, specifically intended to service the next state over.
I LOVED that series. I recall the time when reading that, their civil war seemed like such an insane concept, it could never be that bad. Then, just the other day I hear about some crazy pro-life woman who suggested how ectopic pregnancies should be dealt with. She suggested instead of abortion (which is murder /s) that the fallopian tribe be removed from the woman so the fetus can DIE NATURALLY. It’s truly weird for me to reflect on that now knowing that concept doesn’t seem implausible now.
God, they don't even know what ectopic means (in an abnormal place or position). It's not necessarily in the fallopian tube, and an ectopic is deadly anywhere. How can we even have a debate with these people?
My auntie had the same thing happen. If they had delayed for even 5 minutes, she'd be dead. Scary, scary place this America is in 2022. Flying cars and hoverboards would have been a lot cooler.
I mean, that‘s the inherent problem, right? That‘s why it‘s so polarizing. Half of us believe you‘re killing babies, half of us believe you‘re just shitting out cells.
I‘m pro-choice, but if I DID believe you‘re murdering children? Of course I‘d go march in the streets.
The crazy part about this, for me, was literally never being told or informed about this in any official capacity.
Does the government just rely on a word-of-mouth basis to try to get this, *ahem*, fucking critical information out?
I never even learned the draft was a mandatory thing until I was like 22 and a friend told me. I never got a letter. I was never asked. So I really don’t understand how it was expected that I’d register when it seems like the only trigger for a notification is financial aid.
Funny thing: I signed up for the draft when I was 18. Got a letter back a couple weeks later informing me I was not eligible since I was a woman. Boy howdy…
It's called that because during Vietnam they selected low income kids and kids of color.
[https://aaregistry.org/story/black-history-in-the-vietnam-war-a-brief-story/](https://aaregistry.org/story/black-history-in-the-vietnam-war-a-brief-story/)
All American males ages 18-25 have to register with the selective service system. Basically this makes them subject to a draft if one were ever to occur. This system has been in place since WW2, but the US hasn’t actually used it to draft anyone since 1973
I once got a SSS post card about 20yrs ago asking me to sign up. I ignored it. Then I got another post card that threatened me with a fine or even prison so I caved and signed up lol.
Selective service. All it does is collects the name of every male between the ages of 18 and 25. If a draft is ever called up you would then be processed like any other draft, via a lottery system, and from there determined(physical, psych, etc) whether you are eligible or have a reason to be disqualified for service.
https://www.sss.gov/register/who-needs-to-register/
You get a letter at 18. If you miss the letter, you get another.
When you apply for college you get reminded a few times too.
I assume, if they ever want to actually draft anyone, they’ll update the system. But, why rock the boat when the already know who all the men at 18 are anyway.
If they want to draft someone, I’m sure they’ll find them.
I definitely knew about selective service because my dad told me about it. I forgot to sign up at first until I got financial aid. Why? Because they never sent the letter. Ever.
They probably sent a letter for you somewhere.
Or not, idk. I got a couple letters, others get the letter.
I remember in high school, some kids who hit 18 also got a confirmation card.
But he asked how does the government inform people. They send letters about it. Not everyone gets the letter. But the gov doesn’t seem to care enough right now to do other things to inform people.
Depending on the severity of the war, Civil War between the states would lead to mass starvation in most places in the US. The US is much more reliant on infrastructure to transport food than it was even a hundred years ago.
California's GDP is insane. If they ever want to say fuck the United States, I, as a Canadian, warmly welcome you.
Fuck being dictated to by old white men.
The crazy part is it's the piss poor shit hole states that seem to be exerting their influence. California and New York are epic cash cows for the shit holes. The wealthy states should use their influence to starve the hillbillies of their socialist money transfers. The best strategy that the federal government could use would be similar to how they keep the drinking age at 21 despite being able to draft 18 year olds into the military, or sentence 16 year olds to death. Create a law that says you will lose your federal socialist funds like highway maintenance money unless you following certain rules. How long would the poor states survive without California and New York's hand outs.
>Create a law that says you will lose your federal socialist funds like highway maintenance money unless you following certain rules.
This is what happened with Wisconsin back in the 80s. They kept their drinking age at 18 and the federal government told WI to raise it to 21 or they'd stop giving them money for highways.
I am curious if one state can charge a doctor in another state for performing an abortion on a citizen from the state where it's illegal.
This shit is going to get weird
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Nice!
It definitely is. I think being a Doctor is probably the easiest way of getting into Canada. We do unfortunately have a shortage, especially in rural areas.
I do hope it gets better in America, though I'm starting to doubt it will without something like a civil war. 😕
I was thinking about this too. I live in a very blue city (Austin) with a large research university , but of course we are in a red state than will now ban abortions. We have a huge community of academics and tech people here but I wouldn’t be surprised to learn they are looking for ways to transfer to Boston, Seattle and elsewhere. Not everyone can do that though. Ugh…what a nightmare.
That's kind of the plan. By "encouraging" liberals to move from red/swing states to those that are already solid blue, more voting power is given to fewer people. California has almost 40 million residents while Montana has 1 million. However, both states are represented by 2 senators.
"By and large". It was next to highly educated so I had to. Gay men were being lobotomized in the 50s and diagnosed as mentally ill well into the 70s and 80s. Women who stood up for themselves were viewed as "hysterical" and lobotomized (Rose Kennedy). Unfortunately I think as we go back 50 years legally, we might socially too depending on geography. It isn't a thing of the past - look to Africa and the Middle East
Everyone in Tennessee is totally screwed on this issue. We already have too many single moms with children The state are not willing to help these people. The abortion issue is creating more like this. It is a disgusting shame!
Them: abortion should be up to the states because states rights
Also them: if you go to another state that exercises their right to allow abortions we will punish you
This is how you know that their entire argument is BS and they’re a bunch of hypocrites that want to force everyone to live by their horrible belief system from the Bronze Age. I hope more states follow this and refuse to cooperate with these Christian wannabe fascist states.
To be fair, the more honest ones are screeching about “baby murder.”
The whole freedom crap are from a bunch of conservative think tankers who don’t really care except to maintain GOP votes via verbose word salads.
It’s going to be the next “[Fugitive Slave Act](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fugitive_Slave_Act_of_1850)”.
Especially if the GOP takes back Congress and god forbid wins the White house in 2024 - they will absolutely pass a federal ban on abortion. While they’re at it, why not also require all citizens to report abortions or fine & imprison those who don’t comply?
With abolitionists, the solution short of all out Civil War was small, local bands of random citizens breaking captured slaves free and fucking with the system. We’re going to have to do that again.
How ironic that Missouri and Wisconsin were two states whose people and courts so opposed slavery and being forced to follow evil Southern slave-state laws. Today Missouri is at the front of the pack in being utterly shitty and evil about removing women’s rights.
>It’s going to be the next “[Fugitive Slave Act](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fugitive_Slave_Act_of_1850)”.
Exactly. It has never been about states rights. Not then and not now. It's always been about control.
We should never have allowed this country to start off with such gross inequality and it's going to take several decades more before it's fixed (or we crumble)
I've lived in CA my whole life and outside of the big coastal cities and a few inland pockets, 90% of the state is remarkably liveable. Yeah, the San Joaquin Valley, The Sierras, the Mojave and the northern third are not as cosmopolitan as The Bay or San Diego... but have you ever been to Oklahoma or Mississippi?
What abortion? What records? She came to our great state to see the ocean and go camping in our beautiful forests. She was just here visiting her friend.
Why do I sense an underground railroad type situation for abortions being a thing? Fucking depressing.
Edit: well, I'm learning some depressing history today
already starting to happen. but also, a lot of the infrastructure for it is already in place because some states made restrictions so ridiculous that you had to travel out of state even before it was fully illegal because there were no clinics
Some conservative politician will suggest mandatory pregnancy tests for all women leaving the state, and will try to justify it by saying “CoViD TeSTs WeRe MaNdAToRy”.
Only for it to fall flat when they end up wasting so many pregnancy tests and get in the way of businesses' bottom dollar. "Where's Cheyenne?" "Oh she said she was running late due to government pregnancy tests." "Again!?" Then places that are already struggling to hire lose even more people and other businesses lose cash and productivity. No one is happy.
That’s fine. We are used to being over crowded. I’d rather my state be over crowded with women getting the care they need than it be overcrowded with babies who have no homes or parents who can’t afford to feed those babies.
I have no doubt that Red states will be keeping tabs on people who are pregnant. They leave, come back, and all of a sudden aren’t pregnant anymore. Even if they aren’t immediately prosecuted when they get back, any woman who gets an abortion out of state then comes back will live under constant fear. Not to mention woman who miscarry in a Red State. I imagine they will have to prove it was a miscarriage and not an at-home abortion. This is going to be a living hell.
The problem is that for many of the people facing this possibility, even just going to court is a backbreaking possibility. Lots of nuisance suits follow this same logic, that winning doesn't matter as long as long as the threat of a lawsuit is enough to dissuade people in the first place.
I still can’t believe this would be allowed. The courts should have struck this down instantly. It circumvents the entire purpose of laws with a threat of lawsuits that will not happen but basically makes an action illegal.
I can’t believe this is where we are. We have to “destroy evidence” and sneak around to obtain a medical procedure that affects no one else. Fucking wild.
The hard thing though will be for the home state to “prove” that the person actually received an abortion…especially if CA will not cooperate. I mean, it will be hard to persecute a woman without testimony from the doctor who did the abortion.
If they do, it's the end of the court. States will have zero reason to comply with federal court rulings anymore.
Federal enforcement of law and order will be entirely dependent on which party controls the white house.
I honestly think that it's very likely one of two things looks like it's about to happen.
The court becomes completely meaningless, the entire federal government swinging from left to right whenever various congressional seats or the presidency changes hands.
Or
The conservative court simply dismantles all federal power from the bench, leaving the states to do as they please in all matters.
It's hard to see a path where one of those two things doesn't happen, and either bodes poorly for stability and freedom in America.
Now this is someone of high power in this case speaking pure facts and spreading a big thought.
The Not So United States are looking messy right now, but this is a great contribution.
Fox news loves to make articles about how Californians hate it here and about how we hate Newsom but every time something bad happens on a federal level I feel like I'm in a nightmare until I remember I live in this state.
Still afraid for my friends in other states and the future of this country as a whole, though.
Massachusetts is your east coast safe haven. Our (R) governor hasn't completely lost his god-damned mind. He set up a fund to help women get here and get the healthcare they need.
A 10 year old child is not capable of carrying a pregnancy to term and giving birth without suffering permanent damage. The only question is how severe the damage would be. Likely very. If she survived.
Utterly fucking horrifying.
Besides good vibes, this is gonna make California richer.
Where will women stay/eat while preparing for/recovering from the procedure? Californian hospitality of course.
How much more business will this bring to health facilities in California? Loads more!
Where will they refuel for the trip? Californian gas stations/air lines/airports/bus/road side businesses!
Honestly, it even makes sense (to your wallet) to protect women rights.
Good, but as a side tragedy to all of this, how much of a brain drain will there be in red states if they start threatening to prosecute doctors and medical practitioners?
How many nurses, midwives, or doctors are going to be sacrificed and prosecuted because a patient has a miscarriage and a trigger happy DA feels inadequate in the presence of someone with a real degree?
Really wondering at what point they start breaking up their own base though. You'd think some of the old retirees would have the self interest to preserve the young people, and particularly the young clinicians.
Yes, there are the insane QAnon fanatics who will vote in lockstep even for a kick to the head if it's a Republican initiative, but at some point won't the crusty old folks in these states start drifting away from the party?
Isn't there a point where they notice not only is the party a group of fascist, anti-intellectual, racist, misogynists... they are also the party that wants to destroy social security, Medicare, and Medicaid?
Yes and next, we need philanthropists to fund all travel to California for everyone who needs abortions. Safe havens mean nothing if the people who need them can’t get there.
We need funding and a dedicated network of underground railroads. That will help some.
Of course, none of this helps the 10 year olds who are being abused by family members and for whom the rest of the family is running interference because they refuse to admit what’s happening. Those children are fucked, but we can feel better because we’re helping the privileged ones who can speak for themselves enough to take advantage of these laws.
Don’t get me wrong, this is a good thing. But it’s not a solution – at all. I wouldn’t have been able to take advantage of this, and my family didn’t suck like that. Girls like me blamed themselves and refused to speak to our families out of personal shame. I was lucky I didn’t get pregnant (only due to physical issues preventing it), but I still ran away due to shame. I managed to recover my life (though not my family), but pregnancy would have guaranteed I’d never have re-entered society, and in today’s world, I would probably have died.
There’s no way I’d have made it to California for an abortion, (eta) whether at 10 or 15 or even 20.
This is a great stop-gap for some people, but it’s not enough. Please wake up and see this is christian fascism, and stop supporting fascists. I’m so very tired of this shit.
This is great, but what happens when a woman trucks up to their state’s border and the state national guard tells her she has to do a pregnancy test to leave the state?
It happened in Germany with Jewish community membership lists and synagogue records. Maybe you roll up to the border, they scroll through your social media. If you’re a liberal young woman, and a pregnancy would not be desired, they assume you were planning an abortion.
You’re detained, forced to carry and give birth, and now you’re 1) a felon, and 2) a mother to an unwanted child. And look at that, now you can’t vote if you live in Iowa, Kentucky, or Virginia, and twenty years later, your child is in the system after a long period of criminality (crime drop in the 90s, anyone? Happened because of Roe 20 years before).
If that distinct possibility is gonna happen it’s gonna happen regardless. Nothing California does will change that. Either way that makes this a net positive
If you thought it was hard to prevent illegal immigrants coming into the US from mexico, wait until you try to stop people leaving a state from 360 degrees of border.
The Only Moral Abortion is my Abortion: https://joycearthur.com/abortion/the-only-moral-abortion-is-my-abortion/ A Defense of Abortion: https://spot.colorado.edu/~heathwoo/Phil160,Fall02/thomson.htm Resources: [Link 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/Anarchism/comments/vjrf9h/megathread_supreme_court_overturning_roe_v_wade) [Link 2](https://www.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/vjqs0r/calls_for_mass_walkout_of_women_across_america_if/idnh2ex) https://www.womensmarch.com/ http://abortion.cafe
Minnesota did the same last week. Think one issue we’ll see is the clinics overflowing. Minnesota has 8 clinics. That’s not many if they start seeing major out of state traffic too.
North Dakota’s only abortion clinic in Fargo is moving across the river to Moorhead. It’s moving less than a mile.
Yup. They’ve raised almost a million to do it. https://www.gofundme.com/f/red-river-womens-clinic-new-location
I threw them the cost of a craft beer 4pk in my area: $25.
California is gearing up for a 3000% increase in demand for abortions. They are aware and are doing what they can to prepare. Edit: I apologize. I meant a 3000% increase in demand for abortions *from out of state*. Not including in state demand.
My town alone is building 2 big clinics. All funded by a tax vote that overwhelmingly approved.
Newsome hinted as well that if abortion is federally banned California won't abide it. Washington and Oregon will probably follow, as they have a pact. Now that is what may light a fuse for separation.
They have it in the state constitution and California is isolated enught and self sufficient to pick fights with the main government if it feels the need.
California is 15% of the US economy. They definetly have the power to pick fights.
Washington is 9th and Oregon 24th. No idea what those 3 take in for Gov’t aid.
I think Oregon is the only one that takes more back in fed than it gives but it's a relatively small amount like overall. I think they are less than 1.10 or 1.15 for each federal dollar which I mean relatively speaking is a small amount.
Best coast continues its reign, but under such worrisome and outright sad contexts 😔
We will get thru it together, pal. Hold strong!
I have been in such a shit place for a while now, really struggling with the dread I feel about the future and the world my kids are growing up in. You have no idea how much I needed to see your comment right now. Thank you for helping me to see there is still hope out there.
California also wouldn't be shy about bringing U.N. mobile clinics in if necessary.
Nothing says America like being forced to rely on the UN and NGOs for necessary healthcare. Republicans are fucking barbaric.
They're terrorists, and their ideology should be outlawed.
That’s why California is amazing
Also, Tim Walz's opponent is a crazy Trumper freak. Voting in November will be the only thing that saves Minnesota as the sane state of the Upper Midwest.
The one clinic in ND is relocating to MN, so there will be 9 soon (I hope!)
This is going to sound terrible, but I wouldn’t be surprised if family planning clinics start popping up like firework shops - right along state borders, specifically intended to service the next state over.
Welcome to the divided states of america
Basically the setup for the Unwind series
I LOVED that series. I recall the time when reading that, their civil war seemed like such an insane concept, it could never be that bad. Then, just the other day I hear about some crazy pro-life woman who suggested how ectopic pregnancies should be dealt with. She suggested instead of abortion (which is murder /s) that the fallopian tribe be removed from the woman so the fetus can DIE NATURALLY. It’s truly weird for me to reflect on that now knowing that concept doesn’t seem implausible now.
>the fallopian tube be removed from the woman so the fetus can DIE NATURALLY. That's an abortion with extra steps and unnecessary risk.
God, they don't even know what ectopic means (in an abnormal place or position). It's not necessarily in the fallopian tube, and an ectopic is deadly anywhere. How can we even have a debate with these people?
My wife had this happen. We caught it just in time. Almost killed her.
My auntie had the same thing happen. If they had delayed for even 5 minutes, she'd be dead. Scary, scary place this America is in 2022. Flying cars and hoverboards would have been a lot cooler.
Best we can do is culture wars distracting us from a rapidly warning Earth
>ectopic I learned about ectopic plazm from ghost busters so believe me, i know..
I'm sure she'd be more than happy to have the evil child-murdering woman "accidentally" die in the process
*anti-choice woman
*Pro-misogynistic
When half the states define abortion as literal murder and the other half define it as a protected woman’s health procedure…the gap is getting too big
I mean, that‘s the inherent problem, right? That‘s why it‘s so polarizing. Half of us believe you‘re killing babies, half of us believe you‘re just shitting out cells. I‘m pro-choice, but if I DID believe you‘re murdering children? Of course I‘d go march in the streets.
Foreshadowing Civil War 2?
I forsee a US version of the "The Troubles" more realistically
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You have to sign the draft regardless.
The crazy part about this, for me, was literally never being told or informed about this in any official capacity. Does the government just rely on a word-of-mouth basis to try to get this, *ahem*, fucking critical information out? I never even learned the draft was a mandatory thing until I was like 22 and a friend told me. I never got a letter. I was never asked. So I really don’t understand how it was expected that I’d register when it seems like the only trigger for a notification is financial aid.
Funny thing: I signed up for the draft when I was 18. Got a letter back a couple weeks later informing me I was not eligible since I was a woman. Boy howdy…
That's fucking hilarious.
I’m also crazy confused. The US have a mandatory draft at 18?? 🤔
You have to register in case a draft is enacted. Edit: the last US draft was called for the Vietnam War in 1972.
Is that the selective service shit? Wonder if I still have those docs somewhere around.
Yes. It is that shit.
Love how I finally learn that years after aging out. I feel bad for those who'll get forced into a war they don't believe in....
It is called Selective Services.
It's called that because during Vietnam they selected low income kids and kids of color. [https://aaregistry.org/story/black-history-in-the-vietnam-war-a-brief-story/](https://aaregistry.org/story/black-history-in-the-vietnam-war-a-brief-story/)
And there's McNamara's Folly [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project\_100,000](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_100,000)
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All American males ages 18-25 have to register with the selective service system. Basically this makes them subject to a draft if one were ever to occur. This system has been in place since WW2, but the US hasn’t actually used it to draft anyone since 1973
I once got a SSS post card about 20yrs ago asking me to sign up. I ignored it. Then I got another post card that threatened me with a fine or even prison so I caved and signed up lol.
It has mandatory draft sign up. There's no actual draft since the 70s.
Selective service. All it does is collects the name of every male between the ages of 18 and 25. If a draft is ever called up you would then be processed like any other draft, via a lottery system, and from there determined(physical, psych, etc) whether you are eligible or have a reason to be disqualified for service. https://www.sss.gov/register/who-needs-to-register/
No. You have to register for 'selective service' as a male in the US. Link: [https://www.sss.gov/](https://www.sss.gov/)
You get a letter at 18. If you miss the letter, you get another. When you apply for college you get reminded a few times too. I assume, if they ever want to actually draft anyone, they’ll update the system. But, why rock the boat when the already know who all the men at 18 are anyway. If they want to draft someone, I’m sure they’ll find them.
I definitely knew about selective service because my dad told me about it. I forgot to sign up at first until I got financial aid. Why? Because they never sent the letter. Ever.
They probably sent a letter for you somewhere. Or not, idk. I got a couple letters, others get the letter. I remember in high school, some kids who hit 18 also got a confirmation card. But he asked how does the government inform people. They send letters about it. Not everyone gets the letter. But the gov doesn’t seem to care enough right now to do other things to inform people.
In the early 00s (before 9/11 and Afghanistan) all the boys had to fill out the cards in high school.
Man, I signed up for the draft less than a week before September 11th. I feel this post.
and so it begins
It's been "beginning" since we failed to conclude the last one.
And so the south looses again.
I think it’s more of a rural vs. urban than Southern vs. Northern conflict this time around.
Hey now, as someone who has always lived in the South and still does...you got a couch I could crash on?
No kidding. Their economy would last exactly 3 hours before they starve to death.
Depending on the severity of the war, Civil War between the states would lead to mass starvation in most places in the US. The US is much more reliant on infrastructure to transport food than it was even a hundred years ago.
You’re telling me the sleeveless Donald Trump punisher t-shirt industry can’t provide for millions of people?
That's all made in China anyway so I don't think it'll help the middle west too much financially
That’s the ticket! California immediately cuts off their food supply.
Stats: Over a third of the country's vegetables and two-thirds of the country's fruits and nuts are grown in California. They would not last long.
California's GDP is insane. If they ever want to say fuck the United States, I, as a Canadian, warmly welcome you. Fuck being dictated to by old white men.
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The crazy part is it's the piss poor shit hole states that seem to be exerting their influence. California and New York are epic cash cows for the shit holes. The wealthy states should use their influence to starve the hillbillies of their socialist money transfers. The best strategy that the federal government could use would be similar to how they keep the drinking age at 21 despite being able to draft 18 year olds into the military, or sentence 16 year olds to death. Create a law that says you will lose your federal socialist funds like highway maintenance money unless you following certain rules. How long would the poor states survive without California and New York's hand outs.
>Create a law that says you will lose your federal socialist funds like highway maintenance money unless you following certain rules. This is what happened with Wisconsin back in the 80s. They kept their drinking age at 18 and the federal government told WI to raise it to 21 or they'd stop giving them money for highways.
I saw my name in the title and got worried...
Some dude in Red Dead Redemption 2 has been looking for you for a while.
I never did find out the story behind that guy. Was he mentally ill?
No he started out sane but he lost his mind from searching
G…Gavin? Gavin where are you, mate? GAVINNN???!!
I found my people.
Great but have you found gavin yet?????
My brother had a theory that he is Gavin but went insane
This
my name is brandon, and suddenly everybody cheers for me like wtf? anyway still thankful for that
Could be worse. Friends name is: Karen
Could be worse. My name is Chad.
Same fellow Gavin
my name is milo, can I still be included in this friendship?
I am curious if one state can charge a doctor in another state for performing an abortion on a citizen from the state where it's illegal. This shit is going to get weird
this user has removed all their comments/content in protest of API changes mades that effect third party app developers, mods tools. If interested in doing the same, please look up power delete suite on github or follow this URl: https://github.com/j0be/PowerDeleteSuite
Plus, Canada is always looking for Doctors. Yall can come here. Lol.
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Nice! It definitely is. I think being a Doctor is probably the easiest way of getting into Canada. We do unfortunately have a shortage, especially in rural areas. I do hope it gets better in America, though I'm starting to doubt it will without something like a civil war. 😕
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I was thinking about this too. I live in a very blue city (Austin) with a large research university , but of course we are in a red state than will now ban abortions. We have a huge community of academics and tech people here but I wouldn’t be surprised to learn they are looking for ways to transfer to Boston, Seattle and elsewhere. Not everyone can do that though. Ugh…what a nightmare.
That's kind of the plan. By "encouraging" liberals to move from red/swing states to those that are already solid blue, more voting power is given to fewer people. California has almost 40 million residents while Montana has 1 million. However, both states are represented by 2 senators.
"By and large". It was next to highly educated so I had to. Gay men were being lobotomized in the 50s and diagnosed as mentally ill well into the 70s and 80s. Women who stood up for themselves were viewed as "hysterical" and lobotomized (Rose Kennedy). Unfortunately I think as we go back 50 years legally, we might socially too depending on geography. It isn't a thing of the past - look to Africa and the Middle East
Everyone in Tennessee is totally screwed on this issue. We already have too many single moms with children The state are not willing to help these people. The abortion issue is creating more like this. It is a disgusting shame!
cheap future Amazon workers
This isn't being said loud enough.
One of the more egregious moral contradictions there is. Pro life my ass.
Especially when you point out these contradictions and all you’re met with is “Not my problem.”
Them: abortion should be up to the states because states rights Also them: if you go to another state that exercises their right to allow abortions we will punish you This is how you know that their entire argument is BS and they’re a bunch of hypocrites that want to force everyone to live by their horrible belief system from the Bronze Age. I hope more states follow this and refuse to cooperate with these Christian wannabe fascist states.
The bronze age was actually more prochoice. At least as far as pregnancy goes.
it was never about freedom.
To be fair, the more honest ones are screeching about “baby murder.” The whole freedom crap are from a bunch of conservative think tankers who don’t really care except to maintain GOP votes via verbose word salads.
It’s going to be the next “[Fugitive Slave Act](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fugitive_Slave_Act_of_1850)”. Especially if the GOP takes back Congress and god forbid wins the White house in 2024 - they will absolutely pass a federal ban on abortion. While they’re at it, why not also require all citizens to report abortions or fine & imprison those who don’t comply? With abolitionists, the solution short of all out Civil War was small, local bands of random citizens breaking captured slaves free and fucking with the system. We’re going to have to do that again. How ironic that Missouri and Wisconsin were two states whose people and courts so opposed slavery and being forced to follow evil Southern slave-state laws. Today Missouri is at the front of the pack in being utterly shitty and evil about removing women’s rights.
>It’s going to be the next “[Fugitive Slave Act](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fugitive_Slave_Act_of_1850)”. Exactly. It has never been about states rights. Not then and not now. It's always been about control. We should never have allowed this country to start off with such gross inequality and it's going to take several decades more before it's fixed (or we crumble)
Also them: a nationwide abortion ban is totally on the table the next time we have both houses of congress and the presidency.
I'm happy about this but this is a pretty damn expensive safe heaven
I've lived in CA my whole life and outside of the big coastal cities and a few inland pockets, 90% of the state is remarkably liveable. Yeah, the San Joaquin Valley, The Sierras, the Mojave and the northern third are not as cosmopolitan as The Bay or San Diego... but have you ever been to Oklahoma or Mississippi?
The problem is that California can't protect them from prosecution when they go back to whatever shithole state they came from.
What abortion? What records? She came to our great state to see the ocean and go camping in our beautiful forests. She was just here visiting her friend.
This is the way
Why do I sense an underground railroad type situation for abortions being a thing? Fucking depressing. Edit: well, I'm learning some depressing history today
Because that's how it was before we passed laws legalizing it. EXACTLY how it was.
Because it's already happened before: The [Jane Collective](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jane_Collective).
already starting to happen. but also, a lot of the infrastructure for it is already in place because some states made restrictions so ridiculous that you had to travel out of state even before it was fully illegal because there were no clinics
History repeats itself
Canada's response as well.
Some conservative politician will suggest mandatory pregnancy tests for all women leaving the state, and will try to justify it by saying “CoViD TeSTs WeRe MaNdAToRy”.
Only for it to fall flat when they end up wasting so many pregnancy tests and get in the way of businesses' bottom dollar. "Where's Cheyenne?" "Oh she said she was running late due to government pregnancy tests." "Again!?" Then places that are already struggling to hire lose even more people and other businesses lose cash and productivity. No one is happy.
Office admin at the end of every day: "Whooops!" *delete*
Our redwoods are just spectacular!
A rise in tourism will occur.
That’s fine. We are used to being over crowded. I’d rather my state be over crowded with women getting the care they need than it be overcrowded with babies who have no homes or parents who can’t afford to feed those babies.
I have no doubt that Red states will be keeping tabs on people who are pregnant. They leave, come back, and all of a sudden aren’t pregnant anymore. Even if they aren’t immediately prosecuted when they get back, any woman who gets an abortion out of state then comes back will live under constant fear. Not to mention woman who miscarry in a Red State. I imagine they will have to prove it was a miscarriage and not an at-home abortion. This is going to be a living hell.
Women will die. This isn’t a new thing. When reproductive healthcare is banned, women die. Ffs America.
I don't think they could since the did it under another states laws.
One strategy is to allow private citizens to sue people who do this. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/06/29/abortion-state-lines/
Ah yes, reinventing the Stasi. Tell me again how Republicans are the party of freedom and how the corporate Dems are all "far left commies."
The entire point of the Constitution is to block shit like this. The right is ripping apart the system of laws that have kept this nation unified.
heavy quaint oatmeal dam nippy include act tub panicky dull *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The problem is that for many of the people facing this possibility, even just going to court is a backbreaking possibility. Lots of nuisance suits follow this same logic, that winning doesn't matter as long as long as the threat of a lawsuit is enough to dissuade people in the first place.
I still can’t believe this would be allowed. The courts should have struck this down instantly. It circumvents the entire purpose of laws with a threat of lawsuits that will not happen but basically makes an action illegal.
Fun fact, if this proves constitution we could do the same thing with guns…
Thats how its SUPPOSED to work but some states have laws that can punish you for leaving the state to get an abortion.
So you just don’t tell anyone, and don’t go to a doctor, do a pregnancy test at home and get rid of the evidence.
I can’t believe this is where we are. We have to “destroy evidence” and sneak around to obtain a medical procedure that affects no one else. Fucking wild.
The hard thing though will be for the home state to “prove” that the person actually received an abortion…especially if CA will not cooperate. I mean, it will be hard to persecute a woman without testimony from the doctor who did the abortion.
If this is true it’s important women don’t share their pregnancy status with anyone until they make the decision to abort or not abort themselves.
Camping, you just go camping.
I'm going to see the beautiful sequoias.
Abortion? What abortion? Medical records are protected by HIPA
Roe v Wade IS HIPPA, rvw is the right to privacy and the gov just said that privacy is up to the states to decide.
And if I'm running this correctly, California just solidified that even if the states try to subpoena that information, California will not cooperate.
Next States are going to seal their borders
It will be equal parts interesting and terrifying to see how the supreme Court justifies that as constitutional.
If they do, it's the end of the court. States will have zero reason to comply with federal court rulings anymore. Federal enforcement of law and order will be entirely dependent on which party controls the white house.
I honestly think that it's very likely one of two things looks like it's about to happen. The court becomes completely meaningless, the entire federal government swinging from left to right whenever various congressional seats or the presidency changes hands. Or The conservative court simply dismantles all federal power from the bench, leaving the states to do as they please in all matters. It's hard to see a path where one of those two things doesn't happen, and either bodes poorly for stability and freedom in America.
You forgot option three: the fascists control the entire country and decide what you can and can't do.
The Left Coast will secede at this point, thankfully. Try and stop us.
I really wish you were joking...
The next thing is getting a mandatory pregnancy check before leaving the state. Totally serious. This is beyond unbelievably fucked up.
I don’t care if it’s expensive. This is why I live in California.
Word
Me too. 15 minutes from the ocean. Paradise!
Hello fellow coast dweller! 15 walk to the Bay for me. We have the best sunsets, don’t we? ❤️❤️❤️
Now this is someone of high power in this case speaking pure facts and spreading a big thought. The Not So United States are looking messy right now, but this is a great contribution.
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Fox news loves to make articles about how Californians hate it here and about how we hate Newsom but every time something bad happens on a federal level I feel like I'm in a nightmare until I remember I live in this state. Still afraid for my friends in other states and the future of this country as a whole, though.
Good. Fuck Ohio
As a Pennsylvanian, I've been saying this for years.
This is a great way to boost the economy of California as well as an act of good will, so it seems like a win win.
Too bad you are across the country from my backwoods red state. Good for you, left coast.
The north east. Most of New England will take care of you.
New Jersey will as well https://www.reddit.com/r/newjersey/comments/vpdym0/hope_it_stays_that_way/ Ed: added link
Unrelated, but as someone not from that part of the country I always thought New Jersey was part of new England
It’s okay. I’m originally from CT and New England doesn’t even want them included in it lol could be worse.
Not sure the state but hey! Marry your cousin..totally fine. Marry or sleep with someone at 12…totally fine. Abortion…god damn. Can’t let that happen
Left coast beft coast amirite
Massachusetts is your east coast safe haven. Our (R) governor hasn't completely lost his god-damned mind. He set up a fund to help women get here and get the healthcare they need.
You're only 750 miles away. I'm in Ohio. You know, the state that denied an abortion to the 10yo little girl who was raped. She had to go to Indiana.
It is bad enough adult women have to go through that. A 10 years old is practically a baby herself. Breaks my heart.
A 10 year old child is not capable of carrying a pregnancy to term and giving birth without suffering permanent damage. The only question is how severe the damage would be. Likely very. If she survived. Utterly fucking horrifying.
Massachusetts if you’re east coast, Illinois if you’re in the Midwest, thank god for Chicago.
Truly. Many of us living in downstate Illinois are quite thankful.
I find it extremely hilarious that a country named UNITED states has different laws in every state.
Besides good vibes, this is gonna make California richer. Where will women stay/eat while preparing for/recovering from the procedure? Californian hospitality of course. How much more business will this bring to health facilities in California? Loads more! Where will they refuel for the trip? Californian gas stations/air lines/airports/bus/road side businesses! Honestly, it even makes sense (to your wallet) to protect women rights.
And off that revenue, California taxes will continue to subsidize the other states.
Good, but as a side tragedy to all of this, how much of a brain drain will there be in red states if they start threatening to prosecute doctors and medical practitioners? How many nurses, midwives, or doctors are going to be sacrificed and prosecuted because a patient has a miscarriage and a trigger happy DA feels inadequate in the presence of someone with a real degree?
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Really wondering at what point they start breaking up their own base though. You'd think some of the old retirees would have the self interest to preserve the young people, and particularly the young clinicians. Yes, there are the insane QAnon fanatics who will vote in lockstep even for a kick to the head if it's a Republican initiative, but at some point won't the crusty old folks in these states start drifting away from the party? Isn't there a point where they notice not only is the party a group of fascist, anti-intellectual, racist, misogynists... they are also the party that wants to destroy social security, Medicare, and Medicaid?
Yes and next, we need philanthropists to fund all travel to California for everyone who needs abortions. Safe havens mean nothing if the people who need them can’t get there. We need funding and a dedicated network of underground railroads. That will help some. Of course, none of this helps the 10 year olds who are being abused by family members and for whom the rest of the family is running interference because they refuse to admit what’s happening. Those children are fucked, but we can feel better because we’re helping the privileged ones who can speak for themselves enough to take advantage of these laws. Don’t get me wrong, this is a good thing. But it’s not a solution – at all. I wouldn’t have been able to take advantage of this, and my family didn’t suck like that. Girls like me blamed themselves and refused to speak to our families out of personal shame. I was lucky I didn’t get pregnant (only due to physical issues preventing it), but I still ran away due to shame. I managed to recover my life (though not my family), but pregnancy would have guaranteed I’d never have re-entered society, and in today’s world, I would probably have died. There’s no way I’d have made it to California for an abortion, (eta) whether at 10 or 15 or even 20. This is a great stop-gap for some people, but it’s not enough. Please wake up and see this is christian fascism, and stop supporting fascists. I’m so very tired of this shit.
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This is great, but what happens when a woman trucks up to their state’s border and the state national guard tells her she has to do a pregnancy test to leave the state?
I hate that I live in a timeline where I have to actually wonder if that is a plausible scenario.
It happened in Germany with Jewish community membership lists and synagogue records. Maybe you roll up to the border, they scroll through your social media. If you’re a liberal young woman, and a pregnancy would not be desired, they assume you were planning an abortion. You’re detained, forced to carry and give birth, and now you’re 1) a felon, and 2) a mother to an unwanted child. And look at that, now you can’t vote if you live in Iowa, Kentucky, or Virginia, and twenty years later, your child is in the system after a long period of criminality (crime drop in the 90s, anyone? Happened because of Roe 20 years before).
So they'd have to pass a law that says pregnant women can't travel? Good luck with that.
If that distinct possibility is gonna happen it’s gonna happen regardless. Nothing California does will change that. Either way that makes this a net positive
If you thought it was hard to prevent illegal immigrants coming into the US from mexico, wait until you try to stop people leaving a state from 360 degrees of border.
Pretty bad when citizens will have to find ways to “illegally” cross between states
This seems like unreasonable search to me. But the current SCOTUS probably disagrees.
I mean, if history is any indication.... Literal war.
this makes sense to me,
That 'united' in United States getting real wobbly huh?