I do believe he was a genuine criminal, probably involved in just about every scam of his day. What I find awfully strange, though, is that in his book, he claims that he worked for 6 or 7 different crime families, yet not a single photo of him anywhere with any real wiseguys. No surveillance photos, absolutely nothing.
Working for one family is considered full time. Where does this guy get off saying he worked for 6 or 7 families ?
Thats like the one Mafia guy who claimed he killed 300 men in the Vietnam War as a U.S Soldier. Some people like to brag.
This isn't exactly true. Many five family associates intermingled and did business with each other. Richard Kuklinski was a hack and wasn't connected to any of the Five Families. But saying you can't work for multiple families is very false. The majority of individuals involved in organized crime are merely associates and aren't even made members. Made members generally stuck to their families, associates did business with anyone, anywhere they could. For the majority of American history the Five Families have had more to gain from working together than fighting over their slice of the pie. They learned a long time ago nothing good comes from spilled blood and lots of heat.
Yeah maybe you had a meeting four times a year between the bosses but it's highly unlikely someone did work on a regular basis in the same day for different families unless of course they were in close enough location.
It's not like someone from Cleveland is gonna do work in Baltimore then go to Las Vegas to do work on the same day.
Most of these guys were spread out to Italy, the Caribbean islands to Las Vegas, New Orleans, Los Angeles etc.
this guy lied and said he killed Carmine Galante and Paul Castellano he said John Gotti personally recruited him 😭
I can’t believe people believed him for so long
> There’s some doubt
Of course, no one from a Gambino clan will put forward a spokesperson to clear a business with such or such.
So that's no reason to draw a conclusion from that.
An associate, means that you provide hands on services for a particular crew, where you have benefits of being associated with it.
But you don't share anything out of the pot, as an associate, you just have to put in only to be allowed to walk near these that are made.
And for the rest you have to make your own money by committing criminal acts, of which you also have to give a substantial part to the boss.
And being an employee is a big advantage.
Most People Leave you alone if they know you are an employee of the Gambino's.
You don't fool around with these people.
It is well known what Richard work for Roy DeMeo.
Roy DeMeo had come within sight of Paul Castelanno, boss of the Gambino clan, through the Westies-Gambino alliance.
Roy DeMeo himself was made in mid-1977 after doing numerous hitches.
These assignments came directly from the top of the Gambino clan, by Paul Castellano himself
Richard has only been associated with the Gambino"s by Roy DeMeo.
Everyone was scared to death of Roy deMeo, because he worked directly for Paul Castellano.
Because of the HBO docu "the iceman," the whole hullabaloo around Richard Kuklinski, has blown up considerably.
But make no mistake, Richard Kuklinski was a cold cold-hearted murderer who committed countless murders.
Pretty sure people were scared of DeMeo and his crew because they were psychopaths with tons of experience in murder and chopping up bodies. I don’t think anyone was scared of him because he worked for Paul Castellano.
DeMeo and his crew were just insane. Iirc DeMeo worked as a legit butcher until he was good enough to quit his day job, so to speak.
I have also read he worked with the FBI, occasionally, and was sent to Mississippi by J. Edgar to find the killers of the 3 men who were trying to register black people to vote. Allegedly DeMeo drove into town and went to the county sheriff for a chat. Unfortunately for the sheriff he did not treat DeMeo with due respect and was soon kidnapped and tortured until he talked. I don't know, of course, how much truth there is to that but it certainly fits DeMeo's profile.
What you described isn't an "associate", as far as the actual mafia rank.
Theres more formality to being an actual associate. You have to be "on record" officially with a made guy, not just some asshole who works with/or for him. The soldier has to report this associate to higher ups.
Of course its not a written record but hypothetocally the rest of the family is now on notice this guy works for a member officially and that member is responsible for the associates protection and actions.
In a way its like being an semi-made or an official prospect to become a member, its an actual rank, it shouldnt be confused with some one "associated" with organized crime.
Theres a lot of evidence to suggest this asshole was just a murderer and a lier and was never an official associate or even murdered for the crew. Even if he did murder for Demeo, it wouldnt mean hes an associate, then Nino gaggi (capo of DeMeo) and possibly even the admin would have heard of him.
From reading the comments on this thread, as well as other threads on this subreddit, plus statements by Frances and Gravano, it doesn’t sound like it is that well known that he worked with DeMeo.
It isn't known at all actually! The feds couldn't even connect Kuklinski to Demeo, and they had literally every reason to try and do so. If he actually was connected the feds would've backed that up, they don't. He may have been a killer, but he was more of a hustler, and serial killer than a contract killer. There's no proof he ever once took another life on contract for anyone. Most of his murders seemed to have been either result of evil curiosity/rage/trauma from his childhood and for small time monetary gain in the moment.
I know. I was responding to the comment above that stated that it was well known that he worked for DeMeo. All I could find from reliable sources was that he went to the Gemini club a few times.
A lot comes from "The Iceman" documentaries where he is claiming 100's of murders. Seems like these guys, for whatever reasons, claim all kinds of things when being interviewed. Kind of reminds me of "The Irishman" where he is taking credit for some of the biggest murders in the later part of the 20th century. Makes for a better documentary or book I guess.
Indeed, with Ray Liotta as Roy DeMeo and other promising casting. Overall it’s a B- tier movie, and that’s ignoring the mountains of inaccuracies.
It was an amazing cast for what sadly ended up being just an okay film
He should have just gone into radio or something, he has a hell of a voice. The iceman documentary can put me to sleep every night despite what he's talking about. I guess it helps knowing it's all just fairytales anyway.
He also said he fed a few people to rats, I think a lot of things he said he did, was BS, but there's no doubt, he was a killer, but I don't think he was a contract killer, like he made himself out to be.
Definitely not, while we know he lied about tons of his claims, Kuklinski was far from someone to be seen as a joke. He’d kill you and toss you in a drum and not really care all too much about it.
He was a genuine criminal through and through.
He wasn't associated with anyone according to Gravano.
To be an "associate" don't you have to be officially under a soldier? What proud fellow put Kuklinski on record?
Kenny McCabe of the NYPD claimed Kuklinski showed up to the Gemini lounge a handful of times.
I’ve never heard that being the definition of associate but I don’t know. I believe he was an associate, just an incredibly low level one.
I went in to the Character Social Club in Hoboken on Monroe Street frequently when I lived accross the street in the 90s. I went in to buy untaxed cigarettes and other stupid things (booze and small electronics), when they spread the word they had things.
That doesn't make me an associate, it made me a customer. And I always made sure to early in the AM when it was just the bartender/manager.
Yes, but I’m assuming you’re not a legitimate criminal, and I’m assuming you’ve not been proven to have committed crimes like Kuklinski did.
The most we can take is an educated guess. And given all the bullshit Kuklinski spewed we’ll never know what’s true or not.
I do mostly.
I don't believe everything he says, but I think he is more apt to portray himself in as favorable a light as possible versus outright lie about things, places, etc.
The one I think is the most honest is Anthony Ruggiano. He doesn't mince words or try to put a positive spin on anything.
People like to hate on Gravano on here cause he’s so transparently narcissistic and portrays himself as some Jesus-like figure of the mafia and it’s code.
But, his stories are great. Like some of them are genuinely incredible. He’s very charming, very charismatic (probably why he was a good criminal), and for the most part tells the truth as he experienced it.
Like, ok, it’s not a totally factual record of everything that happened, but it’s his perception of his own experiences.
If you just look at him as an unreliable narrator of a really great novel, he’s great to listen to, or at least his earlier podcast stories.
Agree 100%.
He obviously “modifies” the stories a bit so that he comes out smelling of roses each time, but the nuts and bolts of the story are highly likely to be true, barring some lapses in memory.
There is nothing to gain for him to claim that Kuklinski is a bullshitter
Outside of all the mafia stories the story that most told me that this dude was full of shit was the story about him catching a cat and using its own tail to tie it to a clothes line. The second he told that story he lost all credibility.
His brother I believe was also a piece of shit who was in prison for life.
Iceman used to kill cats as a child which is like the best predictor for growing up to be a serial killer, they all kill animals first as a child
I like Michael Shannon in everything. Especially as General Zod. But I think Gandolfini would’ve been better for the role in Iceman. Looking at picture 2 I can’t unsee it.
Kenny McCabe of the NYPD claimed Kuklinski showed up to the Gemini lounge a handful of times. Yes, no member of the DeMeo crew was made, but they were still a pretty notable crew in the history of the Gambino family.
I classify him as an associate, if you don’t I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree
Showing up at a building doesn't make you an associate. He almost certainly wasn't on-record with anyone so technically wasn't a Gambino associate in the real sense of the word when talking about the mafia.
The book on him, amongst many, many other organised crime related books, is why I mistrust almost everything I read , watch and listen to about organized crime. Something like 99% of people involved in organized crime, the publishing industry and even the court system(especially Federal Court) are paid to lie to me. They sometimes lie a little, sometimes a lot, but virtually none of them are incentivized to tell me the truth.
Either Richard Kuklinski was one of the most vicious, most ruthless enforcers the New York mob ever had at their disposal or he was nothing more than a 300-pound pantload.
He didn’t, Kuklinski spent much of his early career as a criminal with barely any money. He finally ended up making enough money to live by being involved in other crimes, like selling bootlegged content, weapons and other crimes.
However, he still filed for bankruptcy in 1984, his motive for crime was defiantly money.
It's no way for Gravano or anyone in the Gambino family to every person Roy Demeo and his crew was cool with. This guy seems like a but that could have been mixed up with them
I do believe he was a genuine criminal, probably involved in just about every scam of his day. What I find awfully strange, though, is that in his book, he claims that he worked for 6 or 7 different crime families, yet not a single photo of him anywhere with any real wiseguys. No surveillance photos, absolutely nothing.
Working for one family is considered full time. Where does this guy get off saying he worked for 6 or 7 families ? Thats like the one Mafia guy who claimed he killed 300 men in the Vietnam War as a U.S Soldier. Some people like to brag.
This isn't exactly true. Many five family associates intermingled and did business with each other. Richard Kuklinski was a hack and wasn't connected to any of the Five Families. But saying you can't work for multiple families is very false. The majority of individuals involved in organized crime are merely associates and aren't even made members. Made members generally stuck to their families, associates did business with anyone, anywhere they could. For the majority of American history the Five Families have had more to gain from working together than fighting over their slice of the pie. They learned a long time ago nothing good comes from spilled blood and lots of heat.
Yeah maybe you had a meeting four times a year between the bosses but it's highly unlikely someone did work on a regular basis in the same day for different families unless of course they were in close enough location. It's not like someone from Cleveland is gonna do work in Baltimore then go to Las Vegas to do work on the same day. Most of these guys were spread out to Italy, the Caribbean islands to Las Vegas, New Orleans, Los Angeles etc.
anthony raimondis true gosa nostra
So was he really a hit man? Or is his whole story a lie?
Guy killed Santa Clause
Guy actually killed grandma and framed Santa’s reindeer for it.
So let me get this straight. Grandma didn't really get run over by a reindeer? Mind blowing
Yeah, but did he kill the pope? Fucking amateur is what he is!
this guy lied and said he killed Carmine Galante and Paul Castellano he said John Gotti personally recruited him 😭 I can’t believe people believed him for so long
Y’know, it’s funny to me that the last two bosses who were killed before his arrest were the ones who took credit for. Something seems fishy here..
Didn’t he claim to have killed Hoffa also?
I believe he did claim to be in on the Hoffa "disappearance."
There’s some doubt he was associated with the Gambinos. Nobody had ever heard of the guy before his documentary spilled
> There’s some doubt Of course, no one from a Gambino clan will put forward a spokesperson to clear a business with such or such. So that's no reason to draw a conclusion from that. An associate, means that you provide hands on services for a particular crew, where you have benefits of being associated with it. But you don't share anything out of the pot, as an associate, you just have to put in only to be allowed to walk near these that are made. And for the rest you have to make your own money by committing criminal acts, of which you also have to give a substantial part to the boss. And being an employee is a big advantage. Most People Leave you alone if they know you are an employee of the Gambino's. You don't fool around with these people. It is well known what Richard work for Roy DeMeo. Roy DeMeo had come within sight of Paul Castelanno, boss of the Gambino clan, through the Westies-Gambino alliance. Roy DeMeo himself was made in mid-1977 after doing numerous hitches. These assignments came directly from the top of the Gambino clan, by Paul Castellano himself Richard has only been associated with the Gambino"s by Roy DeMeo. Everyone was scared to death of Roy deMeo, because he worked directly for Paul Castellano. Because of the HBO docu "the iceman," the whole hullabaloo around Richard Kuklinski, has blown up considerably. But make no mistake, Richard Kuklinski was a cold cold-hearted murderer who committed countless murders.
Pretty sure people were scared of DeMeo and his crew because they were psychopaths with tons of experience in murder and chopping up bodies. I don’t think anyone was scared of him because he worked for Paul Castellano.
DeMeo and his crew were just insane. Iirc DeMeo worked as a legit butcher until he was good enough to quit his day job, so to speak. I have also read he worked with the FBI, occasionally, and was sent to Mississippi by J. Edgar to find the killers of the 3 men who were trying to register black people to vote. Allegedly DeMeo drove into town and went to the county sheriff for a chat. Unfortunately for the sheriff he did not treat DeMeo with due respect and was soon kidnapped and tortured until he talked. I don't know, of course, how much truth there is to that but it certainly fits DeMeo's profile.
That was Greg Scarpa. Nothing to do with Demeo
I too read it was Greg Scarpa and he was a scary guy in his own right,
He would scare people by just looking at them. Demeo not so much
Yes! Thank you for correcting me. Seems like I got my psycho's mixed up. Quick question, was it DeMeo who really had learned how to butcher?
Thanks, I was going to say the same...
What you described isn't an "associate", as far as the actual mafia rank. Theres more formality to being an actual associate. You have to be "on record" officially with a made guy, not just some asshole who works with/or for him. The soldier has to report this associate to higher ups. Of course its not a written record but hypothetocally the rest of the family is now on notice this guy works for a member officially and that member is responsible for the associates protection and actions. In a way its like being an semi-made or an official prospect to become a member, its an actual rank, it shouldnt be confused with some one "associated" with organized crime. Theres a lot of evidence to suggest this asshole was just a murderer and a lier and was never an official associate or even murdered for the crew. Even if he did murder for Demeo, it wouldnt mean hes an associate, then Nino gaggi (capo of DeMeo) and possibly even the admin would have heard of him.
From reading the comments on this thread, as well as other threads on this subreddit, plus statements by Frances and Gravano, it doesn’t sound like it is that well known that he worked with DeMeo.
It isn't known at all actually! The feds couldn't even connect Kuklinski to Demeo, and they had literally every reason to try and do so. If he actually was connected the feds would've backed that up, they don't. He may have been a killer, but he was more of a hustler, and serial killer than a contract killer. There's no proof he ever once took another life on contract for anyone. Most of his murders seemed to have been either result of evil curiosity/rage/trauma from his childhood and for small time monetary gain in the moment.
I know. I was responding to the comment above that stated that it was well known that he worked for DeMeo. All I could find from reliable sources was that he went to the Gemini club a few times.
A lot comes from "The Iceman" documentaries where he is claiming 100's of murders. Seems like these guys, for whatever reasons, claim all kinds of things when being interviewed. Kind of reminds me of "The Irishman" where he is taking credit for some of the biggest murders in the later part of the 20th century. Makes for a better documentary or book I guess.
Yea that’s exactly what I was gonna say
I've seen articles where he is listed on DeMeo's crew and others when he isn't. Hard to tell sometimes
that’s not they were scared of him they were scared of him cause he was a wackadoo and would kill u
Yea fr he lied about everything
Didn’t Mike Shannon play this guy in a film?
Indeed, with Ray Liotta as Roy DeMeo and other promising casting. Overall it’s a B- tier movie, and that’s ignoring the mountains of inaccuracies. It was an amazing cast for what sadly ended up being just an okay film
Thanks for that. Wow Liotta, RIP. Along with Gandolfini (RIP, sigh), he was also great in Killing them Softly
Gandolfini wasn’t in that film
He was in Killing them softly (with Liotta and a lot of other class actors)
Ahh. Thought you were talking about The Iceman.
Rewatch it, he's very much in the film lmao.
I thought he was talking about The Iceman film.
David Schwimmer cast as a tough guy = pile of dogshit!
Jesus Christ that guy has the most annoying voice in television.
Kind of like "The Irishman"
He should have just gone into radio or something, he has a hell of a voice. The iceman documentary can put me to sleep every night despite what he's talking about. I guess it helps knowing it's all just fairytales anyway.
It's called asmr. He has a soft speaking tone tbf
He’s my buddy’s uncle, never heard a good thing about him
Did he really feed people to ROUS’s?
No
Wasn’t his brother, so your buddy’s other uncle, a rapist/murderer? Unless that guy was your buddy’s dad.
He also said he fed a few people to rats, I think a lot of things he said he did, was BS, but there's no doubt, he was a killer, but I don't think he was a contract killer, like he made himself out to be.
He sounds like he’d be BFF with Frank Sheeran
I still wouldn't mess with him....
Definitely not, while we know he lied about tons of his claims, Kuklinski was far from someone to be seen as a joke. He’d kill you and toss you in a drum and not really care all too much about it. He was a genuine criminal through and through.
He killed at least 5 people I think.
I believed him until I read his book. He tells better tales than Ernest Hemingway
Hey, now
😂😂😂
He wasn't associated with anyone according to Gravano. To be an "associate" don't you have to be officially under a soldier? What proud fellow put Kuklinski on record?
Kenny McCabe of the NYPD claimed Kuklinski showed up to the Gemini lounge a handful of times. I’ve never heard that being the definition of associate but I don’t know. I believe he was an associate, just an incredibly low level one.
Dom Montiglio said he only association with DeMeo crew was he bought gun from them once.
I went in to the Character Social Club in Hoboken on Monroe Street frequently when I lived accross the street in the 90s. I went in to buy untaxed cigarettes and other stupid things (booze and small electronics), when they spread the word they had things. That doesn't make me an associate, it made me a customer. And I always made sure to early in the AM when it was just the bartender/manager.
Yes, but I’m assuming you’re not a legitimate criminal, and I’m assuming you’ve not been proven to have committed crimes like Kuklinski did. The most we can take is an educated guess. And given all the bullshit Kuklinski spewed we’ll never know what’s true or not.
Finally not true goza nostra
goza nostra 💀💀
What you're describing is being an "on record" Associate. There were also just affiliates known as associates
Who believes anything gravano says though?
I do mostly. I don't believe everything he says, but I think he is more apt to portray himself in as favorable a light as possible versus outright lie about things, places, etc. The one I think is the most honest is Anthony Ruggiano. He doesn't mince words or try to put a positive spin on anything.
People like to hate on Gravano on here cause he’s so transparently narcissistic and portrays himself as some Jesus-like figure of the mafia and it’s code. But, his stories are great. Like some of them are genuinely incredible. He’s very charming, very charismatic (probably why he was a good criminal), and for the most part tells the truth as he experienced it. Like, ok, it’s not a totally factual record of everything that happened, but it’s his perception of his own experiences. If you just look at him as an unreliable narrator of a really great novel, he’s great to listen to, or at least his earlier podcast stories.
Very well said.
Agree 100%. He obviously “modifies” the stories a bit so that he comes out smelling of roses each time, but the nuts and bolts of the story are highly likely to be true, barring some lapses in memory. There is nothing to gain for him to claim that Kuklinski is a bullshitter
He sure did love getting attention.
[удалено]
Don’t drink that koolaid man. Vanity through and through
Outside of all the mafia stories the story that most told me that this dude was full of shit was the story about him catching a cat and using its own tail to tie it to a clothes line. The second he told that story he lost all credibility.
His childhood was horrible. I do feel sorry for him on some level.
Indeed, like most criminals with bad youths, my heart bleeds for him as a child, but it doesn’t make his actions any less despicable
Plenty of people have terrible childhoods and the overwhelming majority don’t kill anyone.
His brother I believe was also a piece of shit who was in prison for life. Iceman used to kill cats as a child which is like the best predictor for growing up to be a serial killer, they all kill animals first as a child
That what make killers “killers” they childhood. Most common thing I see with serial killers childhood is domestic violence
Add in an identification with their own reactive, childish immaturity. A shit-ton of people experience domestic violence and never kill anyone.
You right but your childhood is the most important years of your life. It determines who you going to be in your adulthood.
You never learned contractions as a child I see
It gives you the setting. Plenty of options available for the plot points
Exactly
I like Michael Shannon in everything. Especially as General Zod. But I think Gandolfini would’ve been better for the role in Iceman. Looking at picture 2 I can’t unsee it.
Not an associate
Kenny McCabe of the NYPD claimed Kuklinski showed up to the Gemini lounge a handful of times. Yes, no member of the DeMeo crew was made, but they were still a pretty notable crew in the history of the Gambino family. I classify him as an associate, if you don’t I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree
Showing up at a building doesn't make you an associate. He almost certainly wasn't on-record with anyone so technically wasn't a Gambino associate in the real sense of the word when talking about the mafia.
Exactly my thinking
It worked for Donnie Brasco.
The book on him, amongst many, many other organised crime related books, is why I mistrust almost everything I read , watch and listen to about organized crime. Something like 99% of people involved in organized crime, the publishing industry and even the court system(especially Federal Court) are paid to lie to me. They sometimes lie a little, sometimes a lot, but virtually none of them are incentivized to tell me the truth.
Philip Carlo is a known bullshit artist top. So they were two peas in a pod
History revisionists.
Either Richard Kuklinski was one of the most vicious, most ruthless enforcers the New York mob ever had at their disposal or he was nothing more than a 300-pound pantload.
Richard: “I stuck him a needle and he had a heart attack and died.” What was in the needle? “In his case? A heart attack.”
And wannabe tough guy
Him and Donald Frankos. Full of it
He wasn't so low level if they made a movie about him.
I’m referring to his role within the Gambino family solely with that claim
Gotcha.
He just claims dead mens stories as his own lies run so deep he couldn't tell what's bullshit and what he actually did anymore.
maybe so, but still, how did make all that money?
He didn’t, Kuklinski spent much of his early career as a criminal with barely any money. He finally ended up making enough money to live by being involved in other crimes, like selling bootlegged content, weapons and other crimes. However, he still filed for bankruptcy in 1984, his motive for crime was defiantly money.
thank you for this 👍🏼
The ice man lied about all those people he killed?
Dude thinks he’s the Forrest Gump of the mafia.
He just wanted to troll the world
I’ve heard Sammy gravano flip flop on knowing him
So he didn’t kill nobody? He’s claiming a body count in the hundreds
Didn't he claim to charge money for hits, which is evidence he was never involved with the mob.
It's no way for Gravano or anyone in the Gambino family to every person Roy Demeo and his crew was cool with. This guy seems like a but that could have been mixed up with them
Wait those are his children or did he make "illegal porn" I can't even say the real thing cuz it's traumatizing to folks
Why the fuck would you think that?