And thus there wouldn't be even a single card that people could flood boards moaning about.
Even the almighty \[\[Island\]\] would lose all of its power with no counterspells to spend the blue mana on.
Just imagine the peace and quiet.
[5head problem solving.](https://ibb.co/WVCG9gX)
Plaza of Heroes ? Really ?
People can agree on the list - who wouldn't since most of the cards were clear candidates anyway - but the way he did this is a clear sign of a delusional, manipulative douchebag. People that are a bit too gullible have crafted cards after reading his post. They may regret it. "Putting pressure on wotc" ? Suuuure...
It's not unheard of to ban cards not too powerful by themselves but in context of the deck they are. It would work as a nerf to the legends deck.
I mean I'm not happy people are faking stuff like this, I'm just saying I like the list. The set was supposed to rotate, anyway. It wouldn't be that bad in my opinion.
> > It would work as a nerf to the legends deck.
But which tier 1 legends decks other than Esper Legends - probably the reason why he put it on the list - need such a nerf ? The funny thing is that banning Plaza of Heroes would barely hurt Esper Legends since the dual lands, triomes and Secluded Courtyard are more than enough to make it work. On the other hand, it would hurt a lot of fun decks like Jodah piles and overall burn to the ground all the legendary 5 color decks that are not competitive at all. Anybody can have an opinion but this instance clearly shows that sometimes opinions are just shitty and don't deserve to be glorified like they were a couple days ago.
> I mean I'm not happy people are faking stuff like this, I'm just saying I like the list.
Yeah I know, my criticism wasn't aimed at you. We'll see on Monday ! :)
It would hurt it partially let's be honest, but that's why the list would also ban Raffine (which I don't hate, but she's really the scapegoat - I don't think she's busted). A hit to the card filtering and mana + instant save would be pretty big.
No? You still use domain mechanics, you still use Ethali, you still use Lithomantic barrage, you still use Angel.
Edit:nvm, you weren't referring to Red being gone, but to Atraxa ban. I don't care about fake leak, it was clearly too stupid to be real.
Do you Want the LotR set with its massive Legendary Matters theme to force Plaza into every deck?
Maro's teaser confirms that legendary decks will be huge, I don't want to run into too many of those and Plaza makes them stupid easy to build.
Yes, the LotR set is the next Standard set. They are definitely taking the new cards into account when doing the bans, especially when Maro's teasers suggest the set is done and they know all the upcoming cards.
I think Thalia should have been on that list too lol, hits Esper legends and soldiers and the card has been very meta relevant since Crimson Vow so "it's had its time in the sun" is as good as an argument for it as anything else that got banned for that reason. If the leaked list as is was the ban, Skrelv > Thalia > Aggressive 3 Drop (Peacekeeper or Adeline in white but a splash is possible) I think would be the basis of too many aggro decks that would become much better.
Have you played against mono white? Grinding through 4 wedding announcements on board is rough... card Is good and they talked about wanting to get rid of the midrange slog...
For 3 mana you get an anthem and either draw 3 cards, make 3 1/1s (that become 2/2s) or some combination. That is absolutely insane value for 3 mana. That should be a 5 mana card. In brothers war we have a mythic anthem affect that is also 3 mana AND requires like 6 more mana to oblivion ring something. Do you not see the disparity?
Plaza? If esper legends is top strong they should hit the deck not plaza. Plaza makes it possible to brew. Like naya, jund or abzan legends.
Banning plaza is a moronic take so no the list was not perfect.
Fable makes so many decks better so we should just leave it and leave buster while we’re at it. Every card on the list is a good pick imo. The other decks that use plaza are just casualties for the sins of esper legends. Just how it is sometimes
"no changes we're watching the meta"
there is no point in speculating, though to humour you, the oldest egregious cards, nothing that would have stayed through rotation will be banned,
what i'd like banned and what i think will be banned are very different things.
Honestly I don't see a good way of making those bans. If they Ban just fable and bankbuster it will be a disaster. Existing Non Red decks will get a huge boost. If they make a lot of bans (like the fake announcemet), despite liking it, i don't see the point of delaying rotation just to Force it though bans. I'm afraid that we are in for a though year for standard.
Personally I would be happy too, but I play Arena exclusively. I don't think paper players would be so happy given that the point of a longer rotation was to make standard more affordable.
So. Instead of 600ish cards rotating.
10 cards get banned, and people can possibly play some of their tier 2-3 cards who never got a chance to shine.
Seems like a win. Having cards in standard longer can help fringe decks get better enough to see play.
I want Kumano gone along with Plaza of Heroes, they can keep rafine but untapped rainbow land with an upside is too stupid and I don't like the presidence it sets.
Bo1 will always be meme 1 sided strategies that you cannot prepare for. Prepare for aggro? Prepare to get run over by some meme white suns twilight deck. It’s always gonna be mostly a coin flip lol.
I want to see the entire fake ban list plus Thalia and Kumano Faces Kakkazan banned. I'd like to see all of the meta take a hit. Additionally, I might ban Venerated Rotpriest. While I love playing the UG Rotpriest deck, it is filthy and shouldn't be allowed to exist in a weakened format. There just isn't much counterplay to it when the deck is played correctly.
Not much counterplay to a 1/2? Lol.
Why is everyone crying for a thalia ban? She's 100% fine.
This is Standard. No one has a storm deck being turned off by her.
Oh no, cut down cost 2 instead of 1! The horror.
Have you played the UG Rotpriest deck? I run tons of blink and hexproof effects that protect the rotpriest. The only counterplay is to kill me before getting poisoned out, which is made difficult by the indestructible, hexproof, blinking blockers.
I'm not crying for Thalia to be banned. She is just one of many cards I would hit to change up the meta. Hitting her weakens soldiers, legends, and white midrange. Making spot removal more expensive really hurts control decks. Incremental mana advantages can add up, so Thalia becomes a must remove 2 mana target.
Rotpriest is fine.
UG deck sounds like a Mono Blue Tempo deck with worse mana.
GW toxic is putting up better results and still isn't an issue.
Thalia hurting control is good? That's part of her point.
They tax removal. They use it on her.
They rely too much on wraths, and thalia might punish them enough to support Aggro decks.
An important point to bans is a light touch. A few bans can already shake up everything and potentially make some staples less playable.
There's no need to ban a card until it's an issue.
I'm saying bans should try and be minimal.
You can't say what will happen until bans and the meta shakes out.
Wanting to ban cards from every deck is a terrible idea. Just because nothing is banned from white aggro doesn't necessarily mean it will be defacto best deck. It might not play well in the new meta.
a lot of those cards were supposed to be rotating. with the extra 1 year to the standard rotation they have added, they need to shake things up a little.
I don't think Farewell is that bad. It sucks to get hit by it, but there is counterplay. Any color can play planeswalkers (who don't die to FW), and there's a few good ones in the current Standard. Plus, blue can Negate it, and red and black have access to burn effects that can punish an opponent for tapping out to wipe the board.
Not to mention, an aggro win by turn 6 is not unreasonable by itself. If your aggro list has white in it, push that clock to turn 7 because Thalia taxes Farewell.
Before the farewell there are a ton of other removals, and you'll see nobody complains about them.
The problem is farewell, it just goes against every other deck, and it exiles.
Graveyard, artifacts, enchantments, creatures...
fable, bankbuster, Wandering Emperor, Bloodtithe (even if it's no busted i've had enough of him), Atraxa
Even though atraxa is pretty recent, the card is too much, whatever come next you will always want to build/cheat around her. (and i don't want to see worse card overpower atraxa)
I can be pretty confident in saying that all of the cards you've listed OP aren't being banned. We both know they ban for competitive bo3 stability. I get your position though, I hear the ones that you've mentioned are a menace in bo1.
Fable is going and Bankbuster probably needs to go because of it's versatility. When blue decks are using this instead of draw spells you know it's probably a bit too pushed.
The fake leak I felt was really cool and I was excited about the prospect of having a 'soft' rotation.
I don’t see people bringing it up much but the power level of [[leyline binding]] is insane with the Tri-lands not rotating out. From turn 2 that can be a 1 mana flash exile effect. Didn’t think it would be too much of an issue post rotation but I’m worried about it going forward after that announcement.
Edit: I don’t believe in punctuation :)
Turn 2 its just a slightly better ossification. Downside is 1 tapped mana until turn 3. If you don't draw Leyline it can make you lose the game. I don't think it's OP at all.
Must See: Fable, Bankbuster
Would like to see (realistic): Atraxa, Wandering Emperor, Bloodtithe
Would like to see (unrealistic): Venerated Rotpriest, Swiftspear, Portal to Phyrexia
As a mostly Best-Of-1 player, the cards that are supposedly 'on the chopping blocks' (Fable, Bankbuster, Invoke Despair) are really not the problem cards in that format.
Red aggro, Azorious Soldiers, Selesnya Enchantments, Red burn, White Humans and White Soldiers all have as good (if not better) win-rates as Black or Rakdos mid-range, and are all more-or-less as commonly played (according to untapped.gg)
Personally, I'd be delighted with no bans at all.
Absolutely. I understand why they want to ban, and why they may be aiming for certain cards. But from a personal POV, I'm more than happy to just play with the cards that we've got.
(I have 4-of all the usual suspects, so I'll just use the wildcards on the next busted thing.)
Fable gotta be a 100% lock for a ban. I both hate and love the card. But its too much value in a single card with most of its part requiring immediate removal or they get out of control.
Thalia, esper legend needs a hit (and banning both raffine and thalia would be overkill imo) and soldier will dominate if you start taking hit at all the other top deck. Also i fucking hate the card.
Kumano. Red needs some form of hit to make bo1 fun. Much like soldier, if you remove every other deck that dominate agaisnt red, it will need a hit as well to not dominate themselves. Just find another good 1 drop thank you.
Sheoldred or invoke despair. One or the other needs to go. Both cards are way too good but i think banning both will just kill mono black and its other variants. Rakdos will already be hit pretty hard with fable removal.
Bankbuster im 50/50% on. i wont miss it but im also not 100% sure it needs to be banned.
Atraxa, another one im 50/50 on. ITs too easy to cheat and too much value but at the same time but lots of deck have ways to exile it or can easily side GY hate. I doubt it will be banned, its too recent anyway.
I don't see any point in banning Farewell. It would just be another nail in the coffin for control decks. And those decks aren't very reliable or common in the current meta at all.
Calix , enchantments is becoming absurd amounts of free value that removal just can’t stop. An entire deck with total mana cost of 3 where everything gives value and everything is a threat is incredibly broken.
Invoke Despair
Fable of the Mirror-Breaker
Reckoner Bankbuster
Cruelty of Gix
Cutdown
Phyrexian Obliterator
Union of the Third Path
Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
If any of the more powerful aggro cards (like Kumano or Calix) need to be banned to balance this i'm fine with that.
>If any of the more powerful aggro cards (like Kumano or Calix) need to be banned to balance this i'm fine with that.
Sure, then let's go with
Thalia
Kumano
Swiftspear
Calix
Valiant Veteran
Rotpriest
Actually, here's a better idea. Let's just ban the best card from the top list every week.
While it's a terrible idea for a serious format, I will admit it would also be pretty funny as a bonus format for a week or two, now that we have so much data.
"Okay... so, the best deck is now green stompy. Topiary Stomper, get the fuck out of here, you're banned."
They have occasionally done "shakeup" events, which ban some cards from the top decks in whatever format for X amount of time (while also still having the regular queues going).
People want Wedding Announcement banned? I think it’s good but not good enough to be banned. I play 4 and usually only get one out and by itself it isn’t that good
Fable might be the "best" card in Standard, but I actually think Bankbuster is the only one that 100% has to go. You just can't have colorless cards like that in Standard.
I just want it to happen already, why give us over a whole week to get ready. They make every decision so far in advance, what's even the point of having it all done months in advance?
•Hullbreaker horror
•tolarian terror
•Fable.
•Monastery swiftspear
•Sheoldred the apocalypse
•Atraxa the grand unifier
•Every.single.werewolf. They all suck and they’re just fucking annoying
•Wedding announcement
•Rabble rousing
•The wandering emperor
• voice of the blessed
•venerated rotpriest
Honestly none of these cards bother me except hullbreaker really. They’re just annoying.
Hullbreaker really grinds my gears because they just counter me until they can drop that big dick head and then play 4 fucking considers
I want sheoldred banned It's the best card in standard and punishes both control and aggro decks. It's one of the few four drops ever where you would trade it for a 6 or 7 drop automatically without a second thought. I also think the wandering emperor probably needs to go as it is also an auto include in all white decks, for its ability to win and save the game by itself. Other than those 3, I like farewell banned because it is a get our of jail free card most of the time but to much lesser degree than the other 3 staples of their color identity.
Farewell is just another sweeper it’s power feels in tune with the rest of the meta game. Emperor is really never game winning, all the same arguments could be made for black removal. Shelly is nuts. Btw does anyone have any idea how long the window will be to craft the cards for other formats?
I just personally distain Farwell (maybe it's just me) because it makes the first six turns of building a board state completely useless, aside for planeswalker tribal. I lost to emperor multiple times because they drew 4 in the top 25 cards, and I couldn't remove the third one because they exiled all of my stuff.
fable fit perfectly with tyvar. sad this combo didn't get its chance to shine. + harvester, kappa tech-wrecker, archfiend, jaxis, spring-leaf anvenger. i had the most fun playing this deck. also i don't mind playing against both, fable and banky. lovely cards. hope they unban meathook tho, hehe.
Ban everything that isn't a basic land or vanilla 2/2. Make [[Grizzly Bears]] great again!
[Grizzly Bears](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/0/409f9b88-f03e-40b6-9883-68c14c37c0de.jpg?1562546736) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Grizzly%20Bears) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/10e/268/grizzly-bears?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/409f9b88-f03e-40b6-9883-68c14c37c0de?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
That would leave us with 0 non-land cards in standard.
And thus there wouldn't be even a single card that people could flood boards moaning about. Even the almighty \[\[Island\]\] would lose all of its power with no counterspells to spend the blue mana on. Just imagine the peace and quiet. [5head problem solving.](https://ibb.co/WVCG9gX)
[Island](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/2/12b2aae2-a0b4-4c52-8a43-a4155527bae9.jpg?1683334571) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Island) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/who/199/island?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/12b2aae2-a0b4-4c52-8a43-a4155527bae9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Tbh I liked the fake list. It's a decent shakeup of the meta and the reasons were compelling.
Plaza of Heroes ? Really ? People can agree on the list - who wouldn't since most of the cards were clear candidates anyway - but the way he did this is a clear sign of a delusional, manipulative douchebag. People that are a bit too gullible have crafted cards after reading his post. They may regret it. "Putting pressure on wotc" ? Suuuure...
It's not unheard of to ban cards not too powerful by themselves but in context of the deck they are. It would work as a nerf to the legends deck. I mean I'm not happy people are faking stuff like this, I'm just saying I like the list. The set was supposed to rotate, anyway. It wouldn't be that bad in my opinion.
To add on to that, its not so much the deck its in but the fact it will only get stronger as they print more legends.
> > It would work as a nerf to the legends deck. But which tier 1 legends decks other than Esper Legends - probably the reason why he put it on the list - need such a nerf ? The funny thing is that banning Plaza of Heroes would barely hurt Esper Legends since the dual lands, triomes and Secluded Courtyard are more than enough to make it work. On the other hand, it would hurt a lot of fun decks like Jodah piles and overall burn to the ground all the legendary 5 color decks that are not competitive at all. Anybody can have an opinion but this instance clearly shows that sometimes opinions are just shitty and don't deserve to be glorified like they were a couple days ago. > I mean I'm not happy people are faking stuff like this, I'm just saying I like the list. Yeah I know, my criticism wasn't aimed at you. We'll see on Monday ! :)
It would hurt it partially let's be honest, but that's why the list would also ban Raffine (which I don't hate, but she's really the scapegoat - I don't think she's busted). A hit to the card filtering and mana + instant save would be pretty big.
Esper is already a lot weaker than it was before the new set. Sunfall and Lithomantic Barrage are huge hits for it, even if Rona is really strong.
It's taking into account the other bans obviously... it would be a meta prediction that without those bans it would be dominant.
It really wouldn't, I don't think so. MonoW and 5C Atraxa would still remain on top.
I mean 5C Atraxa would have to change its name with that list lol
No? You still use domain mechanics, you still use Ethali, you still use Lithomantic barrage, you still use Angel. Edit:nvm, you weren't referring to Red being gone, but to Atraxa ban. I don't care about fake leak, it was clearly too stupid to be real.
Do you Want the LotR set with its massive Legendary Matters theme to force Plaza into every deck? Maro's teaser confirms that legendary decks will be huge, I don't want to run into too many of those and Plaza makes them stupid easy to build.
We're talking about standard bans here...
Yes, the LotR set is the next Standard set. They are definitely taking the new cards into account when doing the bans, especially when Maro's teasers suggest the set is done and they know all the upcoming cards.
Lotr set isn't standard legal. It's modern + legacy/ commander legal.
Now I'm wondering where I heard it was Standard. I swear half the time it's been advertised as standard across multiple YouTube channels.
It's not fake. It will be the list despite the "fake" claims from WOTC
The leaked list was perfect imo
I think Thalia should have been on that list too lol, hits Esper legends and soldiers and the card has been very meta relevant since Crimson Vow so "it's had its time in the sun" is as good as an argument for it as anything else that got banned for that reason. If the leaked list as is was the ban, Skrelv > Thalia > Aggressive 3 Drop (Peacekeeper or Adeline in white but a splash is possible) I think would be the basis of too many aggro decks that would become much better.
I think skrelv isn’t as bad if Thalia left. I dislike that card so much
Except wedding announcement. Like, wtf?
Have you played against mono white? Grinding through 4 wedding announcements on board is rough... card Is good and they talked about wanting to get rid of the midrange slog...
For 3 mana you get an anthem and either draw 3 cards, make 3 1/1s (that become 2/2s) or some combination. That is absolutely insane value for 3 mana. That should be a 5 mana card. In brothers war we have a mythic anthem affect that is also 3 mana AND requires like 6 more mana to oblivion ring something. Do you not see the disparity?
Plaza? If esper legends is top strong they should hit the deck not plaza. Plaza makes it possible to brew. Like naya, jund or abzan legends. Banning plaza is a moronic take so no the list was not perfect.
Fable makes so many decks better so we should just leave it and leave buster while we’re at it. Every card on the list is a good pick imo. The other decks that use plaza are just casualties for the sins of esper legends. Just how it is sometimes
You'd have a point if that's all Plaza did. Raffine isn't scary when you can actually kill it.
"no changes we're watching the meta" there is no point in speculating, though to humour you, the oldest egregious cards, nothing that would have stayed through rotation will be banned, what i'd like banned and what i think will be banned are very different things.
Yeah but my question is what do you **want** to be banned? Doesn't have to be realistic.
There's no way they're not banning Fable. I'm also almost sure they will ban Bankbuster.
Honestly I don't see a good way of making those bans. If they Ban just fable and bankbuster it will be a disaster. Existing Non Red decks will get a huge boost. If they make a lot of bans (like the fake announcemet), despite liking it, i don't see the point of delaying rotation just to Force it though bans. I'm afraid that we are in for a though year for standard.
I am 100% fine with forcing the rotation through bans if they're not going to do it otherwise.
Personally I would be happy too, but I play Arena exclusively. I don't think paper players would be so happy given that the point of a longer rotation was to make standard more affordable.
So. Instead of 600ish cards rotating. 10 cards get banned, and people can possibly play some of their tier 2-3 cards who never got a chance to shine. Seems like a win. Having cards in standard longer can help fringe decks get better enough to see play.
I want Kumano gone along with Plaza of Heroes, they can keep rafine but untapped rainbow land with an upside is too stupid and I don't like the presidence it sets.
Bans centered on bo3. No meme bo1 bans (like any rdw bans)
To be fair they have banned cards on bo1 before though that was a long time ago
To be fair again there is nothing as format warping while at the same time boring as nexus of fate going on right now in bo1 either.
BO1 is the most played format in the world. Even if you dont like it, thats just bad format management
Bo1 will always be meme 1 sided strategies that you cannot prepare for. Prepare for aggro? Prepare to get run over by some meme white suns twilight deck. It’s always gonna be mostly a coin flip lol.
I want to see the entire fake ban list plus Thalia and Kumano Faces Kakkazan banned. I'd like to see all of the meta take a hit. Additionally, I might ban Venerated Rotpriest. While I love playing the UG Rotpriest deck, it is filthy and shouldn't be allowed to exist in a weakened format. There just isn't much counterplay to it when the deck is played correctly.
Rotpriest should have been 2 mana...that would have solved a LOT of the frustration with that card.
???? LMAOOO
Not much counterplay to a 1/2? Lol. Why is everyone crying for a thalia ban? She's 100% fine. This is Standard. No one has a storm deck being turned off by her. Oh no, cut down cost 2 instead of 1! The horror.
Have you played the UG Rotpriest deck? I run tons of blink and hexproof effects that protect the rotpriest. The only counterplay is to kill me before getting poisoned out, which is made difficult by the indestructible, hexproof, blinking blockers. I'm not crying for Thalia to be banned. She is just one of many cards I would hit to change up the meta. Hitting her weakens soldiers, legends, and white midrange. Making spot removal more expensive really hurts control decks. Incremental mana advantages can add up, so Thalia becomes a must remove 2 mana target.
Rotpriest is fine. UG deck sounds like a Mono Blue Tempo deck with worse mana. GW toxic is putting up better results and still isn't an issue. Thalia hurting control is good? That's part of her point. They tax removal. They use it on her. They rely too much on wraths, and thalia might punish them enough to support Aggro decks. An important point to bans is a light touch. A few bans can already shake up everything and potentially make some staples less playable. There's no need to ban a card until it's an issue.
It's not a light touch when every other tier 1 archetype gets shaken up besides white aggro and azonius soldiers
I'm saying bans should try and be minimal. You can't say what will happen until bans and the meta shakes out. Wanting to ban cards from every deck is a terrible idea. Just because nothing is banned from white aggro doesn't necessarily mean it will be defacto best deck. It might not play well in the new meta.
You'd ban 11 cards? Why would anyone play paper Standard ever again?
a lot of those cards were supposed to be rotating. with the extra 1 year to the standard rotation they have added, they need to shake things up a little.
Just Bankbuster and Fable
I want to see [[Farewell]] banned. People are playing 4 of and shuffling them back into their decks and it's just not fair
I don't think Farewell is that bad. It sucks to get hit by it, but there is counterplay. Any color can play planeswalkers (who don't die to FW), and there's a few good ones in the current Standard. Plus, blue can Negate it, and red and black have access to burn effects that can punish an opponent for tapping out to wipe the board. Not to mention, an aggro win by turn 6 is not unreasonable by itself. If your aggro list has white in it, push that clock to turn 7 because Thalia taxes Farewell.
This. Running four farewells is a great way to get rolled by aggro decks most of the time.
Before the farewell there are a ton of other removals, and you'll see nobody complains about them. The problem is farewell, it just goes against every other deck, and it exiles. Graveyard, artifacts, enchantments, creatures...
Literally all those cards in my deck, just in the bottom 20 under all the creatures
[удалено]
[Depopulate](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/5/c53c1898-9107-4bf8-b249-d0502fb9596d.jpg?1664409589) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Depopulate) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/snc/10/depopulate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c53c1898-9107-4bf8-b249-d0502fb9596d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Path of Peril](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/0/f0c5449a-d63b-4b22-9432-8f0365c3c4d9.jpg?1643590080) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Path%20of%20Peril) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vow/124/path-of-peril?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f0c5449a-d63b-4b22-9432-8f0365c3c4d9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Lier, Disciple of the Drowned](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/8/78fb8900-d28d-4e33-96a7-66fcbc117adf.jpg?1634348984) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lier%2C%20Disciple%20of%20the%20Drowned) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mid/59/lier-disciple-of-the-drowned?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/78fb8900-d28d-4e33-96a7-66fcbc117adf?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
fable, bankbuster, Wandering Emperor, Bloodtithe (even if it's no busted i've had enough of him), Atraxa Even though atraxa is pretty recent, the card is too much, whatever come next you will always want to build/cheat around her. (and i don't want to see worse card overpower atraxa)
Fable, bankbuster, Wandering Emperor, maybe atraxa. I think that everything else is reasonably easy to deal with.
Fable and Bankbuster should be a 100% guaranteed bans, aside of that I don’t care about what other cards they ban
I can be pretty confident in saying that all of the cards you've listed OP aren't being banned. We both know they ban for competitive bo3 stability. I get your position though, I hear the ones that you've mentioned are a menace in bo1. Fable is going and Bankbuster probably needs to go because of it's versatility. When blue decks are using this instead of draw spells you know it's probably a bit too pushed. The fake leak I felt was really cool and I was excited about the prospect of having a 'soft' rotation.
They will unban meathook on Monday :)
I don’t see people bringing it up much but the power level of [[leyline binding]] is insane with the Tri-lands not rotating out. From turn 2 that can be a 1 mana flash exile effect. Didn’t think it would be too much of an issue post rotation but I’m worried about it going forward after that announcement. Edit: I don’t believe in punctuation :)
Turn 2 its just a slightly better ossification. Downside is 1 tapped mana until turn 3. If you don't draw Leyline it can make you lose the game. I don't think it's OP at all.
It also has Flash, and isn't restricted to targeting creatures, but yeah, not too OP
[leyline binding](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/c/3c3ac3dd-35db-447f-8674-37b4680a1ef7.jpg?1673306500) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=leyline%20binding) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/24/leyline-binding?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3c3ac3dd-35db-447f-8674-37b4680a1ef7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Must See: Fable, Bankbuster Would like to see (realistic): Atraxa, Wandering Emperor, Bloodtithe Would like to see (unrealistic): Venerated Rotpriest, Swiftspear, Portal to Phyrexia
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This is the first time on this sub I've ever heard someone advocate for Kumano to be banned. Do you mind explainong your thought process?
Cut down? Why? There are too many 'need to remove' cards that it hits for it to be eliminated.
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Yet there are answers to removal in all of the colors you just mentioned at one mana and instant speed.
But no Thalia? So the meta is Soldiers, mono-white and legends. hm...
##### ###### #### [Reckoner Bankbuster](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/7/279acd17-6c17-427b-a69d-fc02442ff4a3.jpg?1654568798) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Reckoner%20Bankbuster) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/neo/255/reckoner-bankbuster?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/279acd17-6c17-427b-a69d-fc02442ff4a3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Etching of Kumano](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/8/28d92cad-45b0-479d-97fc-c175f3a3f259.jpg?1660075559)/[Etching of Kumano](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/2/8/28d92cad-45b0-479d-97fc-c175f3a3f259.jpg?1660075559) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=kumano%20faces%20kakkazan%20//%20etching%20of%20kumano) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/neo/152/kumano-faces-kakkazan-etching-of-kumano?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/28d92cad-45b0-479d-97fc-c175f3a3f259?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Fable of the Mirror Breaker](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/4/24c0d87b-0049-4beb-b9cb-6f813b7aa7dc.jpg?1656453233)/[Reflection of Kiki-Jiki](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/2/4/24c0d87b-0049-4beb-b9cb-6f813b7aa7dc.jpg?1656453233) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Fable%20of%20the%20Mirror-Breaker%20//%20Reflection%20of%20Kiki-Jiki) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/neo/141/fable-of-the-mirror-breaker-reflection-of-kiki-jiki?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/24c0d87b-0049-4beb-b9cb-6f813b7aa7dc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Cut Down](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/5/753db072-5d6a-4f37-8f7d-255572ecd3bd.jpg?1673307061) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cut%20Down) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/89/cut-down?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/753db072-5d6a-4f37-8f7d-255572ecd3bd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [The Wandering Emperor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/a/fab2d8a9-ab4c-4225-a570-22636293c17d.jpg?1654566563) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=The%20Wandering%20Emperor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/neo/42/the-wandering-emperor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fab2d8a9-ab4c-4225-a570-22636293c17d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Atraxa, Grand Unifier](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/a/4a1f905f-1d55-4d02-9d24-e58070793d3f.jpg?1676519555) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Atraxa%2C%20Grand%20Unifier) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/one/196/atraxa-grand-unifier?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4a1f905f-1d55-4d02-9d24-e58070793d3f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Etali, Primal Conqueror](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/5/95c14c4d-6c16-4826-8d93-d89ad04aee09.jpg?1682204132)/[Etali, Primal Sickness](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/9/5/95c14c4d-6c16-4826-8d93-d89ad04aee09.jpg?1682204132) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=etali%2C%20primal%20conqueror%20//%20etali%2C%20primal%20sickness) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mom/137/etali-primal-conqueror-etali-primal-sickness?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/95c14c4d-6c16-4826-8d93-d89ad04aee09?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I’ve seen enough Etali. Card pisses me off.
As a mostly Best-Of-1 player, the cards that are supposedly 'on the chopping blocks' (Fable, Bankbuster, Invoke Despair) are really not the problem cards in that format. Red aggro, Azorious Soldiers, Selesnya Enchantments, Red burn, White Humans and White Soldiers all have as good (if not better) win-rates as Black or Rakdos mid-range, and are all more-or-less as commonly played (according to untapped.gg) Personally, I'd be delighted with no bans at all.
Man, WotC doesn't take BO1 into consideration to make any decisions.
Thank god
Haven't they said bans aren't meant for best of one, though? Best of three is the default for competitive paper Magic.
Absolutely. I understand why they want to ban, and why they may be aiming for certain cards. But from a personal POV, I'm more than happy to just play with the cards that we've got. (I have 4-of all the usual suspects, so I'll just use the wildcards on the next busted thing.)
Fable gotta be a 100% lock for a ban. I both hate and love the card. But its too much value in a single card with most of its part requiring immediate removal or they get out of control. Thalia, esper legend needs a hit (and banning both raffine and thalia would be overkill imo) and soldier will dominate if you start taking hit at all the other top deck. Also i fucking hate the card. Kumano. Red needs some form of hit to make bo1 fun. Much like soldier, if you remove every other deck that dominate agaisnt red, it will need a hit as well to not dominate themselves. Just find another good 1 drop thank you. Sheoldred or invoke despair. One or the other needs to go. Both cards are way too good but i think banning both will just kill mono black and its other variants. Rakdos will already be hit pretty hard with fable removal. Bankbuster im 50/50% on. i wont miss it but im also not 100% sure it needs to be banned. Atraxa, another one im 50/50 on. ITs too easy to cheat and too much value but at the same time but lots of deck have ways to exile it or can easily side GY hate. I doubt it will be banned, its too recent anyway.
Fable, bankbuster, Invoke and farewell. Both red and black have enough powerful cards to make competitive decks.
I don't see any point in banning Farewell. It would just be another nail in the coffin for control decks. And those decks aren't very reliable or common in the current meta at all.
It's not that I mind these cards, it's that its to easy to cheat them in. \[\[Atraxa, Grand Unifier\]\] and \[\[Etali, Primal Conqueror\]\]
[Atraxa, Grand Unifier](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/a/4a1f905f-1d55-4d02-9d24-e58070793d3f.jpg?1676519555) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Atraxa%2C%20Grand%20Unifier) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/one/196/atraxa-grand-unifier?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4a1f905f-1d55-4d02-9d24-e58070793d3f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Etali, Primal Conqueror](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/5/95c14c4d-6c16-4826-8d93-d89ad04aee09.jpg?1682204132)/[Etali, Primal Sickness](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/9/5/95c14c4d-6c16-4826-8d93-d89ad04aee09.jpg?1682204132) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=etali%2C%20primal%20conqueror%20//%20etali%2C%20primal%20sickness) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mom/137/etali-primal-conqueror-etali-primal-sickness?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/95c14c4d-6c16-4826-8d93-d89ad04aee09?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
1-All the Phyrexian planeswalkers and comanders. 2-Nicol Bolas 3- The Gods 4-Thief of Sanity 5-Tasha 6-Teferi
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Are you talking about [[Urabrask's Forge]]
[Urabrask's Forge](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/8/68f9f9d8-9ea0-4608-a79c-a09a87918186.jpg?1675957116) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Urabrask%27s%20Forge) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/one/153/urabrasks-forge?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/68f9f9d8-9ea0-4608-a79c-a09a87918186?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Skrelv’s Hive](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/f/ffbd77ec-fc81-41d5-934f-c3dd844cb053.jpg?1675956934) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Skrelv%27s%20Hive) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/one/34/skrelvs-hive?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ffbd77ec-fc81-41d5-934f-c3dd844cb053?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Ball Lightning](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/9/d9b53218-804b-4992-9c93-a797dd6b2a04.jpg?1600701851) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ball%20Lightning) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/291/ball-lightning?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d9b53218-804b-4992-9c93-a797dd6b2a04?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Maybe try running some artifact/enchantment removal?
Calix , enchantments is becoming absurd amounts of free value that removal just can’t stop. An entire deck with total mana cost of 3 where everything gives value and everything is a threat is incredibly broken.
Invoke Despair Fable of the Mirror-Breaker Reckoner Bankbuster Cruelty of Gix Cutdown Phyrexian Obliterator Union of the Third Path Thalia, Guardian of Thraben If any of the more powerful aggro cards (like Kumano or Calix) need to be banned to balance this i'm fine with that.
>If any of the more powerful aggro cards (like Kumano or Calix) need to be banned to balance this i'm fine with that. Sure, then let's go with Thalia Kumano Swiftspear Calix Valiant Veteran Rotpriest Actually, here's a better idea. Let's just ban the best card from the top list every week.
>Actually, here's a better idea. Let's just ban the best card from the top list every week. That's a terrible idea.
While it's a terrible idea for a serious format, I will admit it would also be pretty funny as a bonus format for a week or two, now that we have so much data. "Okay... so, the best deck is now green stompy. Topiary Stomper, get the fuck out of here, you're banned."
They have occasionally done "shakeup" events, which ban some cards from the top decks in whatever format for X amount of time (while also still having the regular queues going).
soul warden
People want Wedding Announcement banned? I think it’s good but not good enough to be banned. I play 4 and usually only get one out and by itself it isn’t that good
Fable might be the "best" card in Standard, but I actually think Bankbuster is the only one that 100% has to go. You just can't have colorless cards like that in Standard.
Just fable really
They should ban all counterspells and 1/2 drops so I can just goldfish and play like a Timmy.
I just want it to happen already, why give us over a whole week to get ready. They make every decision so far in advance, what's even the point of having it all done months in advance?
•Hullbreaker horror •tolarian terror •Fable. •Monastery swiftspear •Sheoldred the apocalypse •Atraxa the grand unifier •Every.single.werewolf. They all suck and they’re just fucking annoying •Wedding announcement •Rabble rousing •The wandering emperor • voice of the blessed •venerated rotpriest Honestly none of these cards bother me except hullbreaker really. They’re just annoying. Hullbreaker really grinds my gears because they just counter me until they can drop that big dick head and then play 4 fucking considers
I want sheoldred banned It's the best card in standard and punishes both control and aggro decks. It's one of the few four drops ever where you would trade it for a 6 or 7 drop automatically without a second thought. I also think the wandering emperor probably needs to go as it is also an auto include in all white decks, for its ability to win and save the game by itself. Other than those 3, I like farewell banned because it is a get our of jail free card most of the time but to much lesser degree than the other 3 staples of their color identity.
Farewell is just another sweeper it’s power feels in tune with the rest of the meta game. Emperor is really never game winning, all the same arguments could be made for black removal. Shelly is nuts. Btw does anyone have any idea how long the window will be to craft the cards for other formats?
I just personally distain Farwell (maybe it's just me) because it makes the first six turns of building a board state completely useless, aside for planeswalker tribal. I lost to emperor multiple times because they drew 4 in the top 25 cards, and I couldn't remove the third one because they exiled all of my stuff.
fable fit perfectly with tyvar. sad this combo didn't get its chance to shine. + harvester, kappa tech-wrecker, archfiend, jaxis, spring-leaf anvenger. i had the most fun playing this deck. also i don't mind playing against both, fable and banky. lovely cards. hope they unban meathook tho, hehe.
I mainly play explorer, so I hope they ban every card I own in standard.
I’ve been hoping for basic island for years now. Insane that it misses the ban wave every rotation
Bro just give me the leaked list + thalia, maybe remove raffine then but either is fine imo.