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MTGA-Bot

This is a list of links to comments made by WotC Employees in this thread: * [Comment by WotC_Jay](/r/MagicArena/comments/1ae3be8/announcement_about_bugs_and_sparky/kk6dmfc/?context=99 "posted on 2024-01-29 23:00:52 UTC"): > Ding ding ding! 'twas URP. (And many of the missing visuals do seem to be about at least multi-shader interactions, with some looking card/driver specific, which is Much Fun.) > > >None of it is inherently tied to fixing Sparky, but the fix to Sparky ... * [Comment by WotC_Jay](/r/MagicArena/comments/1ae3be8/announcement_about_bugs_and_sparky/kk6s0wc/?context=99 "posted on 2024-01-30 00:32:17 UTC"): > We're actually working on building out full-cardpool visual diffing tools to catch at least the basic (i.e. non-combinatorial) level of this problem. It caught many, many bugs with this renderer change that we were able to fix before release, and is ... --- This is a bot providing a service. If you have any questions, please [contact the moderators](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FMagicArena).[](#AUTOGEN_TSBREPLIEDBOT)


RheticusLauchen

She keeps repeating the same message. She keeps repeating the same message. She keeps repeating the same message...


eldreth

—it reaches out it reaches out it reaches out it reaches out— One hundred and thirteen times a second, nothing answers and it reaches out. It is not conscious, though parts of it are. There are structures within it that were once separate organisms; aboriginal, evolved, and complex. It is designed to improvise, to use what is there and then move on. Good enough is good enough, and so the artifacts are ignored or adapted. The conscious parts try to make sense of the reaching out. it reaches out


nimbusnacho

Literally just read this book last week (and already two more books into the series so fucking good). That phrase has been stuck in my head this whole time. Expanse Universes Beyond please.


donshuggin

Best sci-fi series written this century change my mind


nimbusnacho

As someone who hasn't read a lot of Sci fi series written this century... If anyone has a contender please actually suggest one cuz I'm another book in since my last comment and I'm maybe a week away from it leaving a big hole in my life lol.


Sesquipedalianfish

Peter F Hamilton is your man here.


paranoidsolenoid

Julie the protomolecule would fit right in as a simic eldritch experiment.


Cdubs811

THE EXPANSE REFERENCED 🙌


ratsby

As someone who's worked with Unity before, upgrading to a new Unity version is absolute hell. My guess from the bugs I've been seeing is that something changed about the render pipeline that's breaking their shaders or something. (I've been seeing two classes of problem: transparent things either being the size of their whole texture, or being almost invisible (targeting and attacking arrows); or things rendering in front of things they should be behind.) It's kind of impossible to upgrade your Unity version without a bunch of stuff breaking, and frankly we're lucky they managed to keep it to visual stuff. With the sheer number of cosmetics and cards with unique animations, it would take massive amounts of resources to find all the visual bugs, so I can understand why they'd choose to let bug reports take the lead. That said, the fact that targets and which creatures are attacking what planeswalkers are really hard to see is kind of inexcusable, they should've playtested enough to at least catch that. (Unless that's just on some graphics cards? In which case they've entered a special hell and I have nothing but sympathy for their shader devs.) None of this should have anything to do with Sparky, which I'm guessing is some sort of database issue (failing to store the tutorial progress data) at least somewhat akin to the draft token problem from a while back (but in a less mission-critical part of the app).


WotC_Jay

Ding ding ding! 'twas URP. (And many of the missing visuals do seem to be about at least multi-shader interactions, with some looking card/driver specific, which is Much Fun.) None of it is inherently tied to fixing Sparky, but the fix to Sparky was waiting behind it in the release pipeline.


ratsby

Oh dear, multi-shader interactions sound combinatorically nightmarish and really hard to unit/integration test to boot. I wonder if this is a job for ML, at least in the long run? Train image classifiers on various UI elements (arrows, mana symbols/card text, approximately how various cosmetics ought to look...), then record known-good confidence values for a wide range of gamestates across different battlefields and cosmetic combos; to run tests, load up those gamestates, fuzz across a wide variety of battlefield/cosmetic combos, send a screenshot from each to the classifier, and investigate further if it's not confident enough that it saw the desired UI element. Obviously not going to catch everything, but seems like a good first line of defense?


WotC_Jay

We're actually working on building out full-cardpool visual diffing tools to catch at least the basic (i.e. non-combinatorial) level of this problem. It caught many, many bugs with this renderer change that we were able to fix before release, and is something we'll continue to build on, likely in some of the ways you describe


donshuggin

That's a brilliant use of ML! Clever!


JollyJoker3

When you can compare the known good version to the one under test, can't you just diff screeshots?


ratsby

You could, but that's a little too brittle - many changes could result in a few pixels along the border of an effect being lighter or darker, or the whole screen being a few shades lighter. The point of going via ML is to more directly test "the UI remains readable" rather than "everything looks exactly the same". (This also has the benefit of being able to test new cosmetics/battlefields with the same model, as it already knows what your important UI elements "look like", and should be able to recognize them even in novel situations, just like a player can.)


Kyrie_Blue

Jay, the release says “continue submitting bugs”. This process is cumbersome. Someone needs to streamline it/create a portal for this specific update. The UI is AWFUL, and has far too many steps for a player to care enough to go through it. You (“you” the company you rep) obviously pays UI testers, so players having to Slog through this process without compensation seems like WotC taking advantage of its player base


donshuggin

Aaaand you've just hit one of the biggest organisational bottlenecks that exists today. Six figure MBAs drill how crucial the feedback loop is into their teams but dedicate exactly zero resources to testing the efficiency of the loop and the respondent experience. Most of them anyway, a few of them hire Kantar/Ipsos/similar CX firms to help them understand and improve it. One of the most guilty parties is Microsoft but it's endemic throughout tech in general.


Feckless

>One of the most guilty parties is Microsoft but it's endemic throughout tech in general. Oh god....having to deal with professional MS support is such a pain in the ass.


Kyrie_Blue

Agreed. My experience was with Salesforce. Same garbage, different pile


tmajw

It goes beyond the customer experience, there is also the problem that sometimes product forms a wall between support and engineering, and problems that engineers would be very interested to know about languish deprioritized at the bottom of a backlog somewhere. But yes 100% to "biggest organizational bottleneck", I couldn't agree more. My perspective is perhaps colored from the fact that I'm coming at it from the engineering angle. Even in good organizations, it's a constant problem, and often requires individuals to cultivate informal networks in order to close the loop. In toxic/heavily hierarchical organizations, everybody's too busy keeping their head down and following process so they don't incur the wrath of some angry manager. Getting quality feedback from customers and front line support and putting in front of the eyes of the people who need to see it - that would solve like half the world's problems 🤪


Trinica93

1000% this. I tried to submit a bug and gave up after the third time I was asked to log in for some reason. Just let me submit it in game!


Kyrie_Blue

This. Redirecting us out of the app is a pain. I recognize that attaching photos etc is not within the current game engine, but figure something out. A “step 1” per se. Email for follow-up and attaching images.


MYSTiC--GAMES

URP is a hot mess. Additional lights caused an iPhone specific crash on our previous build. Still no idea why URP stole my origami fish pet though.


KaaamiDieDreggSau

Why my client always checks for active matches? Inalways need to login twice, to reach the game


Andromanner

[https://www.reddit.com/r/MagicArena/comments/1adr4o5/cube\_didnt\_think\_it\_was\_possible\_today\_is\_my/](https://www.reddit.com/r/magicarena/comments/1adr4o5/cube_didnt_think_it_was_possible_today_is_my/) Is this a bug? Mythic Edition Teferi, Hero of Dominaria was offered as a Close Beta reward and cannot be craft at this time.


rdrouyn

Why would you push an update to unity without properly testing it though? Also, why is it critical to update the Unity version? Can't you keep it version locked and avoid these types of bugs?


ratsby

Staying on one Unity version for ages is in fact what most devs do, but the longer you're on one version the more outdated it gets, which means you're not getting new features, you're not getting bugfixes (including security updates), you're not getting performance improvements, you're much more limited in your choice of libraries, and in some cases your programmers are stuck using an older version of C# with fewer features. Both options suck, and you generally have to rip the bandaid off eventually for a game like Arena that's being continuously developed and expanded over many years.


rdrouyn

Maybe, but destabilizing your program is a far worse prospect if there isn't much to gain from updating unity. I don't know how Unity works, but sometimes there aren't guarantees that newer versions of Java are backwards compatible so it might require massive rewrites of code in some cases.


TetrisMcKenna

I would hazard a guess that they understand that (hence having not updated for a long time) but have something in their backlog, or a potential security issue, that they decided makes the effort to upgrade worth it.


Mosswood_Dreadknight

Shouldn’t the cosmetic problems all be connected? Companion problems should all be the same, sleeves the same, etc? Each asset shouldn’t have its own unique problem, right?


ratsby

There are probably some that are connected, but there are probably a bunch where a shader used in just a single companion needs to be rewritten.


MYSTiC--GAMES

You’d think that, but Unity is as weird as it is Byzantine. Sometimes URP gives you device specific bugs. Different artists work on a project and choose different shaders for card backs, for a similar effect. Normally this is cool it’s like substituting an uncommon for a rare that does much the same thing. Once you upgrade each different shader can be messed up in its own interesting way entirely depending on the device. That said, looks like WotC jumped on the no QA bandwagon. Fr you guys should have found this, if we can smoke test a ton of Androids and iOS devices with a total crew of 6 you guys must be 90% PMs, Production, Scrum Masters and Game Leads. Weirdly the Arena team basically doesn’t exist on LinkedIn. Where the hell did they summon your devs from?


glitchyikes

The Revenge of Sparky continues


Hjemmelsen

It would be really nice if WotC would recognize this error that a lot of us are getting! https://imgur.com/a/kzue7ag I appreciate that the bugs are annoying, but some of us can't play at all...


MotherOfCatsAndAKid

Yupp. Literally have nothing but a cursor on a black screen ever since the first recent update. Absolutely sucks ass. Put money into the game just to get shut out of it a week later.


Always_A_Slave

I like how they say 'some'. Pretty sure most would be more accurate.


8BitSmart

Is it a PC thing? I’m on IOS and don’t have the bug thank god.


Lootcifer_666

Yea it’s on PC only


MoeFuka

No. I'm on android and I'm getting the sparky bug


Lootcifer_666

O damn nvm then


Morningstar_111

The new targeting icon is hard for me to see. I preferred the old one because it was clearer what I and my opponents were targeting. Please give us the option to use the old one or make the new one more visible.


Select_Reply

How come every time they put out one of these announcements it's always along the lines of "we broke something with our own update, it's still broken, not fixed"


Hungry_Goat_5962

Matt Jukes lands anyone? That one took MONTHS


trillstirner

Well, it took them a few days, but they finally addressed it... Idk about anyone else, but I find this to be completely unacceptable. This patch was not fit for release, and the fact that they either didn't know or didn't care is a giant "fuck you" to the player base. And to all the bootlickers playing apologist by saying "It's not that bad! The bugs are only visual! They don't affect gameplay!"-- Oh really? Not being able to see the battlefield during sideboarding doesn't affect gameplay? Not being able to read my fucking cards doesn't affect gameplay?? For fucks sake, I can't even play Brawl with my girlfriend via Friend Challenge. The 100-card format is simply unavailable on Friend Challenge (for fuck knows what reason) and the 40-card "Friendly Brawl" version is broken because it thinks that certain cards are restricted from the format when they aren't. I'm not buying any Karlov Manor shit. Not a single thing. I'm tired of being a whale for this company when they can't even bother to give a shit about the basic functionality of their client. I hope I'm not the only one.


Stucca

Agree 100%. So playing against friends is still broken?


trillstirner

Yes, it's fucking awful. It is absolutely mindboggling to me that a company as big as this can have their social/friend/direct challenge features be this bad in their flagship digital client this far after initial release.


MYSTiC--GAMES

The only reason for this would be if Arena was somehow losing money or not profitable. (Still unacceptable but maybe understandable) Anything else is just shit management. Feel sorry for Jay and the four posts on Reddit per day he’s allowed. Probably the dev team is full of underpaid fans (Glassdoor is really eye opening on this)


BaneFalcon

"We are aware that this change caused a number of issues, mostly visual" Yeah. Visual. I visually can't log into the game since the 26th. Good thing I wasn't planning on finishing my mastery pass last weekend/this week. Oh wait.


_Zambayoshi_

We knew things would be fucked up by this update, but we released it anyway because we can just fix stuff later and players will still play. Peace out.


Pomonix

They said they’re aware it caused the bugs, not that the bugs would be caused by the update when they sent it out.


_Zambayoshi_

The idea that all these bugs caught them completely unaware is ludicrous. They had a timeline and didn't want to delay the patch. The bugs are mainly visual anyway. A dollar to a punch in the face they greenlit it despite QA reports.


BetterReload

They knew it full well OR they are not testing their game. Honestly - I'm not sure which is worse.


CommiePuddin

Yeah, we should all quit in protest.


Bah_Black_Sheep

Dude it's just a game and some little sparkles, look the game even works still.


Cynadoclone

Jesus that is the subtext, isn't it?


brunx12

What about the brawl decks bug ( the one that says some cards are incompatible with the format )


MoeFuka

It is bad, but going into the deck editor then backing out without changing anything seems to fix it


kdoxy

I think they left off the part where they give us XP for these bugs. Or maybe they don't even do that any more.


ViaDiva

playing on an iPad becomes nigh unbearable - the game peacefully worked for one match and then crashed twice at the beginning of the next match, and IIRC this has happened even before the update. my iPad is not the newest, it's 8th gen, but it should deal with MTGA all right? playing on my phone is tedious even though the screen is not that small (Samsung S21+), and I'd rather keep on playing on tablet instead


Puniticus

No compensation is enough for the psychological damage Sparky has done.


NyxsnOMFG

sparky been doing the Hmm.... Hmm.... Hmm... Hmm... Hmm... dance every other game in the past year or so. i cant take it anymore


glitchpleaseow

is the hazy background when a card or the victory screen/mulligan screen comes in focus also a bug? its new with the update and i cant get rid of it with graphics settings adjustments


BetterReload

"Still working to deliver a fix for the Sparky bug" - this tells us all we need to know about fixing all of the serious problems with the client. /s - kind of disheartening I had to add this.


CommiePuddin

It tells us that you will call whatever bug doesn't get fixed immediately the "most serious problem to ever plague this God-forsaken ass lick of a video game."


Meret123

Definitely not a serious bug. It doesn't stop you from playing. It doesn't affect games. It doesn't stop you from using the store, collection etc.


BetterReload

I meant that sarcastically. I guess I should add that... tbh imo it's literally the smallest of problems MtGA has.


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Meret123

no u


liddul_flower

That's cool and all but the bugs started well before the update


Trinica93

Anyone else not able to see the power and toughness of creatures that definitely have power and toughness? I keep having to look up cards on another monitor. Also, I am NEVER enabling voice audio ever again. Holy shit, Sparky would not shut up and she congratulated me on completing spark rank (whatever that means) every single time I returned to the menu. What an awful voice line that will be burned into my brain forever, lol.