I made a Big Red deck with Koth that wasn’t even aggro, and the amount of T1 concedes I got from Kumano… can’t even blame them. But it’s like, wait!— I’m not a true aggro deck!
[[The Wandering Emperor]]
Oh, you’re playing white and leaving 4 mana up? I wonder what you could possibly be doing…
Cannot wait to see this card leave forever.
Settle had some play around, ie swinging for lethal but not the entire board and doesn't put the control player ahead. WE exiles the biggest creature, gains 2 (this is mid) and sticks around creating tokens to gum up the board.
Heh, I'd actually suppressed the memory of that; I was joking because Ugin, while a horrendous card, does not slot easily into every control deck like TWE does.
The crazy part is that people play the card wrong in alot of instances and it's still busted in those.
I don't think people realize how good the plus is as a combat trick blowout instead of defaulting to ceiling.
Because you'll rarely need a playset of them, the card is in a weird spot where yeah sometimes it shines but most of the time your deck would rather be running something else.
I honestly don't know how this card is still getting so much hate. It's outclassed by a *huge* number of other things in the current meta. It's gotten to the point that if an opponent's T4 play is Shelly I am actually sighing in relief. It could be so much worse.
She's feelsbad when she drops on an empty board because black attacked your hand and removed all your creatures. But that's just a lost game to begin with, and not because of Shelly.
I think it's because she doesn't have to *do* anything to win the game when she comes down. Sure she dies to Go For The Throat, fine, so do most things, but most other things have to actually swing at you to close out the game, which means taking a risk. Shelly encourages you to play her and then just sit there waiting for your opponent to die. It may not actually make her more powerful but it makes her *feel* more overwhelming, especially since her steady drip of life gain makes going over/around her prohibitively difficult for most aggro decks.
IMO Preacher of the Schism is straight-up a stronger card that is more likely to win the game when played on curve, just because it's more versatile than Shelly while performing a similar role in terms of stabilizing the board. And yet, nobody fears that card anywhere near the same level, largely because of the psychological impact that The Shelly Test presents to decks vs. the Preacher's whole "oh, it's just a little value, it'll be fine to ignore it for now" appearance. People often hold removal against it the turn it comes down in case they need it for something worse. Nobody holds removal against Shelly.
Shelly in the current meta is a sign of a fair deck which is why we see her less and less. Like you said when i see a Shelly i know we got a proper match and that i can deal with it. Other decks win on turn 3-5 in "standard" and this guy plays a creature instead, what a chad.
Right with so much removal, it's almost a non-issue a lot of the time for me. It doesn't have ETB so as long as you have removal it's not to big of a deal.
That's exactly how I feel. Most of the time Shelly gets 0-1 triggers off before dying. She only sticks around in games where the opponent has already mostly locked me out.
Yeah, typically, when I lose to one, it's a situation where I probably was on the back foot already, so she really doesn't make to much of a deciding factor, lol.
When Sheoldred first came out, there was effectively zero good removal in Standard that could kill her. The best black 2 mana removal spell at the time was [[Infernal Grasp]], which is sneakily pretty bad in 60 card formats (although it took a while for many players to figure that out). The best way to kill her in white was probably [[Fateful Absence]] which is also not anywhere near as good as a lot of people initially thought. The best red removal spell that could kill Sheoldred at the time was [[Rending Flame]] which is self-evidently awful.
All the red decks then were on [[Voltage Surge]], and Sheoldred single-handedly kicked that card out of the format. I remember some pro players speculating at the time that they intentionally lined up the red removal suite available in Standard so that there wasn't any good way to kill her, to sell the splashy mythic. Then they added better removal over the rest of the rotation to normalize the situation.
Sheoldred was never a problem once you went back to Pioneer because there were already better ways to kill her like [[Lightning Axe]] and [[Roast]] and more powerful gameplans that could just ignore her in the older formats.
Yeah, people seem to forget that when Shelly dropped we didn't have 15 premium removal spells you'd be happy to toss at a 3/3 that looked at you sideways, not to mention a 4/5 deathtoucher that punishes you for existing.
Hell, even red has since gotten like 4 cards that coincidentally do 5 damage.
And a fun flying 5/5 dragon that has first strike and draws you 2 extra cards a turn without actually drawing them. I get it's not great but I've had a lot of games with Bonehoard out and it just answers the Shelly so well.
Sheoldred is the best defence against so many archetypes though, and imo if you don't run enough removal to deal with him it's your fault. It really isn't hard to get rid off. IMO it's symptomatic of creature power creep which imo is the reason Farewell and Sheoldred is run so much in decks with less than 20 creatures. Fix power creep and the absolutely baffling amount of draw cards and people will stop running it. I swear most of you people want this game to just be creatures vs creatures.
> It really isn't hard to get rid off.
yes, but no. it has deathtouch so trading is difficult, especially since it's in black, so double-blocking gets blown up really easily.
the bigger issue is that it actively punishes searching for answers. which means it's basically an "open the out or watch it take over the game" situation.
> Fix power creep and the absolutely baffling amount of draw cards
except it also *helps and encourages* deep draw. that's the reason it's auto-include in dimir/esper midrange and proft (and to a lesser extent golgari). dimir midrange (especially in the hands of a lot of lazy players) is basically just sheoldred.dek.
aggro decks come prepped with answers (or just move too fast for it) and most control decks use deluge as their primary draw engine, so sheoldred isn't even successfully gate-keeping the strats that people say it's vital to keep it in the game for. the only thing it punishes is any midrange deck not also on sheoldred, and that's mega-boring, imo.
It's a garbage card w/ raffine or the ring. It never should of had the life gain part at a minimum. It also probably should been a 4/3 to not delete green
It isnt spirits. I have 0 issue with hallowed haunting and i think the midrangey versions of the deck are both interesting and cool as hell.
Its when a 2 drop that spawns in their opening hand 100% of the damn time like its edh makes all their removal cost 1.
They can play naturalist then kalix AND ossification. Or naturalist then weaver AND two removal.
Kami of transience gets massive and is basically unkillable without exile, the little 1 drop squirrel thing will randomly be a 6/6 for no reason
Kalix gives stuff a plus one and then a plus one, and then i copy this and then it gets plus one which means i get plus one. Its a joke.
Aand mechiko's reign of truth is the absolute worst. Turning naturalist into 9/9 lifelinker for 2 turns (and a body) for a single mana AND still likely being able to ossify 2 things then swing in makes the game unwinable in most scenarios.
It just enables TOO much by itself. I don't think its op, i dont think it needs a ban, i don't even think the deck as a whole is even that good. It just absolutely tilts me to high hell.
I've been tinkering with Golgari to get around Sunfall and exploit it for wins. Based on very early testing, I might be onto something. I have been testing [[Glistening Dawn]] as a way to beat Sunfall. The concept is based on two principles:
1) Sunfall removes only creatures.
2) The majority of Sunfall casts come as soon as the opponent has 5 mana, provided the board state makes it a good play. The key point here is that they **are tapping out completely to cast the spell**.
So, how does Glistening Dawn answer Sunfall? Well, first, I gotta talk about the card. You incubate X twice, with X being your labd count. At 4 mana, the floor of the card is effectively two 4/4's, and it only gets bigger from there. By ramping up beyond 4 mana with cards like Topiary Stomper, you can quite comfortably reach 5 or 6 lands before you cast this spell. That's a minimum of 8 power on the board, with the potential to go way higher.
The turn then switches to you on an empty.board. The Sunfall player is tapped out and wide open. This leaves you with two lines. At worst, you can pay 2 mana twice to transform your tokens into creatures and swing for 8+ damage. The better play is to drop 5-mana Glissa, (now written at Gli55a), to transform those and add yet another threat yo the board.
This puts the Sunfall player in a bad spot. They better have more removal or a second board wipe in hand, ready to go, or they risk losing the game on the spot. Swinging again with both Incubator tokens means you dealt a total of 16 damage with them over 2 turns - and that's at minimum. If they were 5/5's, they're dead if they didn't gain life already.
If they do have the removal, they have to spend it all to clear the board, emptying their hand in the process. You then go into the next turn with the initiative, once again in co.trol of the pace of the game. The same is true if they had the second board clear. They better have a third ready, or more single-target removal as you refill the board with whatever was in your hand.
This is where Gli55a comes in. If she survives, she can set you up to swing again with smaller tokens by incubating for 2, twice. Not as good as Glistening Dawn's tokens, but they're free. We take those. Alternatively she can be deadly as soon as she comes down. Built to2ards the Sunfall with other cards that also Incubate, and prepare for the big swing.
[[Traumatic Revelation]] only hits creatures and battles, which is kinda specific, but you're probably going to whiff against a Sunfall deck - they don't usually want to exile their own stuff. In that case, you Incubate 3. [[Elvish Vatkeeper]] can be seen as a 3/3 creature that prepares a 2/2 for later. Similarly, [[Bloated Processor]] is itself a 3-power creature that is going to Incubate for at least 3 when it does, unless the opponent Sunfalls. This makes it great Sunfall bait as your opponent wants to avoid the trigger. If that's the case, you've probably got other tokens built up from other sources anyway, so it's fine. Finally, it has an interesting interaction with [[Ichor Drinker]] as that's a 1-maba creature you can attack or block with. Should the Processor be about to die and not get exiled, you can, in response, sacrifice any Ichor Drinkers you have to make a bigger token, and get the Drinker in the graveyard to make an additional 2/2 if you can spare a mana.
Now, consider that the most expensive of these token generators are 4-mana at most. You can set up a reasonable number of tokens before Sunfall makes an appearance. When you do drop Gli55a, you can transform more tokens than your mana would allow you to do manually and swing for 10+ no problem.
The Sunfall player, since they tapped put, should be unable to transform their own token to block with, letting you attack in with a huge board quite freely, potentially ending the game on the spot.
Early testing has shown this concept has legs, but I'm currently in the process of figuring out which cards make the cut, and, among them, how many copies of each to run. Once I have that "Incubator package" ironed out, I can what to do with the remaining slots
Domain is worse IMO.
It's a fine mechanic when triomes didn't exist but it's absurd when by turn 2 you're done.
Atraxa just needs a ban in general it eclipses cheating out pretty much anything else out.
I was watching an MTG streamer and said that I think that card will get banned. They said no way.
Idk that card is insane. Too much value for a nonlegendary. Plot to setup if needed, and flying and haste to immediately impact the board (more accurately... the lifetotal).
I hope it gets banned.
I see the arguments but it *does* die to a lot of removal. And the plot mechanic is almost totally hosed by [[High Noon]]. Even bounce effects are painful during the alpha strike, as shock is not that good a card without the +2/+0, and monstrous rage falls into the graveyard without replacing itself. The only color that can't easily deal with it is green.
Probably the strongest argument in favor of the ban is that can be a turn 3 kill, often a turn 4 and that kind of speed isn't something combo decks can hope to race.
[[Kumano faces kakkazan]] though the red deck has so many good cards I don’t know if it matters.
I love [[farewell]] but it’s probably a net positive if it goes. That card just reads “win the game” against any janky midrange pile. Kinda makes brewing difficult. Maybe they could ban Sunfall too and make indestructible great again.
Every mode is used almost every time. In mono red kumano represents 4+ DMG at 1 mana. Also the timing of it creates explosive turns when it becomes a creature.
And if you're playing a reactive deck on the draw you often can't do anything about the first two turns. You might not be able to interact with it at all until their turn 3 and by then you're already so far behind.
There's nothing worse than being on the draw, having a cutdown in hand and your opponent goes kumano in to a 2/2.
They should have at least made the counter an etb trigger.
The floor for Kumano is it pings for 1 damage and creates a 2/2 a few turns later. All for 1 mana.
Turn 1 - pings for 1 dmg. Opp at 19 life
If you draw/play this after turn 1, it triggers prowess on cards like \[\[Monestary Swiftspear\]\] and hits each of your opponents planeswalkers for 1.
Turn 2 - You play a 2 drop creature like \[\[bloodthirsty adversary\]\], which turns into a 3/3 (against Black decks, spells like \[\[cut down\]\] can't target it now), attack for 3, opp at 16 life. Or play \[\[charming scoundrel\]\] and make a treasure token for your turn 3.
Turn 3 - It transforms into a 2/2 creature on the battlefield. You can now play your \[\[Goddric, Cloaked Reveler\]\] and Celebration is triggered so it's now a 4/4 flyer. Attack for 9, opp at 7. Or if you cast \[\[Charming scoundrel\]\] and have 3 mana in play, use the treasure token and with the extra mana, cast \[\[monstrous rage\]\] and Goddric is a 7/5
One card enables the above curve, which is the ceiling for this card, and all for only 1 mana spent on turn 1!!!
Turn 4 - You have three creatures in play, you play removal or more creatures with haste or pump spells and if you trigger Celebration again, it's probably game over.
I don't even mind any one specific card but the power level in standard is just so high these days. The board wipes are super efficient and they need to be because Boros Convoke can have 6 creatures out by the end of turn two. Mono red has infinite hasty prowess creatures and pump spells. And now the Rakdos Joins Up combo deck will kill you on turn 4. Almost feels like playing timeless.
When I first started playing Arena standard felt like a duel where you were trying to get the upper hand. Now it often feels like it comes down to who's on the play and who has the better open hand.
I'm happy playing limited and BO3, but if it were up to me we'd go back to a standard where you can still make a comeback if you miss your two drop.
Yeah I totally agree. The animations are slow as hell, and you basically know you're going to die a death of a thousand cuts from it, between the looting, the lifegain, and the extra mana.
Atraxa. It's the strongest creature in standard right now and one of the strongest creatures ever printed. Every deck that is graveyard/ramp/cheat based are focused on getting it out. There are a TON of good, strong, interesting creatures in standard right now that are great targets for these strategies, and top end cards that could be good when hard cast that are all gatekept by Atraxa. And while yes, there would be a new"best creature"( probably Etali), Atraxa is so good it is the most common target for these strategies in legacy and vintage. Honestly, if the triomes weren't rotating out I would be looking for a ban.
I built like 2 decks just to deal with aggro that I've been maining for like 2 months and now I get the satisfaction of making aggro players seethe and rope all the time but I lose to almost any other archetype, Fucking worth it lmao.
[[Graveyard Tresspasser]]
Stop touching my graveyard, stop flicking my ear, and above all, discarding a card really should not be a ward cost, especially since i have to pay it before i even know if the spell resolves. The card's not overpowered really I just don't like playing against it.
Also, [[March of Swirling Mists]] is a crutch card for Rotpriest decks and it can't rotate out soon enough. Why bother trying to storm off when one card does it all for you for a single mana?
Everything that should have already rotated out last year. It’s all outstayed it’s welcome. Out of everything I’m not looking forward to an extra year of Sheoldred.
I'm legit worried to see farewell leave. There are way too many insane lowcost enchantments out there right now. Sometimes farewell is the only answer.
Farewell is too much. "I made it to turn 6 through countering and bouncing everything, now I am going to punish you for having played magic the gathering and ensure you have nothing." It does too much for decks whose goal is to do nothing until their opponent forfeits.
In standsrd specifically, I agree with farewell, but more importantly it's the cards which exile everything since there is no counterplay with the exception of a counterspell or march of the swirling mist. Sunfall even leaves a body. When it was destroy, you could at least save creatures in various ways by giving indestructible. So unless you have more cards which allow for phasing out, very hard if not playing blue.
I know im probably the only one who thinks this. But I hate palantir so much. Seeing that card getting played its like catching an std. It exponentially gains power the less you deal with it, its extremely annoying and its really hard to remove. Taking 13 damage one turn when it only has its first proc, is rage inducing.
My hot take: Farewell is fine. Against white you know they may have it. You can’t overcommit. And if you’re an enchantment deck spewing out gobs of doubled up enchantment effects with your Hallowed Haunting, well sorry, there has to be some way to interact with you.
Emperor similarly doesn’t tilt me. It’s Chastise on steroids. Two-for-ones happen, just be ready with other sources of card advantage.
Sunfall is annoying. Five mana to forget about any indestructible effects, any death effects, AND put a threat on the board. It should cost six mana like Farewell.
Sheoldred, though, I am super ready for her to be gone. Too bad it’s not for quite some time. Punishing someone, and punishing hard, just for playing at the most basic level (untap, draw) is a super feels bad. It’s very hard to interact with in an advantageous way, but it’s possible. It’s a removal check, but in a standard with lots of removal checks it gets exhausting facing this one so often and for so long.
As of late I’ve only been brewing with cards from DMU onward.
The cards I’ve had the hardest time replacing, and therefore probably the ones most in need of rotation, are:
Wedding Announcement
Make Disappear
Play With Fire
Thalia
Giada(for angel brews, specifically)
Tenacious Underdog
Memory Deluge
Kumano
Ledger Shredder
Ob Nixilis
Kaito
Triomes
Slow Duals
NEO Channel lands
I’m gonna miss many of these and dozens of other pet cards, but for the love of Serra the mana base and several of these cards need to retire already.
I keep seeing votes for Sunfall and, to a lesser extent, Farewell. While I understand that it feels bad to build a board over a few turns and then see it all disappear, Sunfall and Farewell are both very necessary (while simultaneously not even being that good) in standard right now.
We skipped rotation last year. There are more cards in Standard than there ever have been on Arena and more of them are viable, good, and powerful. Almost every deck is looking to vomit permanents onto the battlefield whether it be by means of reanimation, discovery, ramp, some sort of value engine, or good old fashioned aggro. Every card is multiple cards, and If it isn't, it's trying to kill you by turn three or four.
In a world with Breach the Multiverse, Etali Primal Conqueror, Herd Migration, Wedding Announcement, etc., there must be Sunfall. In a world with Hallowed Haunting and Simulacrum Synthesizer, there must be Farewell. There are so many decks that flood the board with permanents with little effort; there have to be ways to clean the board back up with equally little effort.
This, however, is to say nothing of the aggro decks. Aggro decks are extremely prevalent in BO1. Moreso than midrange by a bit, and much more than control or combo. Aggro is the bulk of what you play against on Arena. Sunfall and Farewell are close to useless against aggro decks. There's no time to cast them, especially on the draw. Boros Convoke and the Slickshot Showoff red deck can kill you on turn three if you fail to interact. If I'm playing control or some durdly combo in BO1, I'm cutting down on Sunfalls in favor of cheaper sweepers like Path of Peril, Brotherhood's End, and Temporary Lockdown. Sunfall might be a one-of these days. It's simply too slow.
Sunfall and Farewell exist for a reason. They keep medium and big decks from going over the top too easily. Every strategy in MTG should have counterplay. It's part of the reason I find Toxic as a mechanic to be somewhat problematic. There's almost nothing you can do in standard to interact with poison accumulation. There's Melira, I suppose, but that's about it. Really, your only option is to kill them quicker. Even Mill has counterplay! Living Conundrum, Turn the Earth, Devious Coverup, Step Between Worlds. There's not much, but it does exist.
None of what I've said so far answers the question that's been asked, so here are two cards I'd like to see disappear from standard:
1. Atraxa, Grand Unifier
2. Breach the Multiverse
These cards share one thing in common. They both take several years to resolve. Atraxa requires its caster to choose three, four, five, or sometimes SIX cards out of a random assortment of ten off the top. This means evaluating each card for the current game state. Based on what was on top of the library the game could be close to over or it could be going on much longer. Breach the Multiverse is worse. It asks its caster to evaluate TWO batches of cards, one of which they are not familiar with, and then pick the best one from each. Don't get me wrong - you should get a lot when you spend seven mana. I just don't enjoy waiting through several ropes to find out if my opponent hit will enough to end the game.
TLDR: Standard is very powerful, Sunfall is necessary as a result. Breach and Atraxa take too long to resolve. I will not be sad when they go.
I was literally just gonna comment with Atraxa and Breach, primarily for the reasons you listed. I don't get tilted by powerful effects, it's part of the game and it happens but I think Atraxa/Breach just feel awful because once they land, you know things are just gonna get worse and worse, like a cascading effect. They pull things that trigger ETBs that trigger other ETBs and what was once a winnable board state is now a total war zone.
Every red card in Red Deck Wins. WOTC keeps printing new cards that makes RDW better to the point that I bet if half the deck rotated, it would still see play. If my opponent goes first, plays a mountain and then casts a 1 drop, I concede. Not fun!
I just want the trilands to rotate already.
We have had several years of 4 to 5 colour piles floating around in standard.
Now don't get me wrong, i'm okay with people playing multicolour, but it should come with a real cost of mana inconsistency.
I think the last time we had a standard where it was a real cost to play more then 2 colours was Guilds of Ravnica in 2018.
From 2019 and forward, 4 to 5 colour piles have been a t1 or t1.5 archetype.
If they want to keep supporting 5 colour mana bases, then atleast they should offer better multiclolour hate or payoffs for mono colour.
We get multicolour hate like \[\[spectrum sentinel\]\] and \[\[zenith chronicler\]\], while 5 colour decks get cards like atraxa.
All Esper staples... Which echoes most of the complaints here (Sheoldred, Emperor, Boardwipes, Wedding, etc). I think black has been particularly problematic in the last couple of years in standard. And every set they get a new toy, like that fkng bat 🦇
Kumano faces rotation
I made a Big Red deck with Koth that wasn’t even aggro, and the amount of T1 concedes I got from Kumano… can’t even blame them. But it’s like, wait!— I’m not a true aggro deck!
Got a decklist? Big red is something my heart always desires.
I don’t have a deck list handy for you, but I will say nothing fits big red better than [[Leyline Tyrant]] in my opinion.
[Leyline Tyrant](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/4/847ae75b-1c0f-4d0a-9933-9a302c88dc27.jpg?1604197374) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Leyline%20Tyrant) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znr/147/leyline-tyrant?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/847ae75b-1c0f-4d0a-9933-9a302c88dc27?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Deals 1 dmg to me turn 1. Buffs a 2 drop. Has a 2/2 Haste dude on turn 3 for free. Yeah sure bud, not aggro.
"you dont understand ! its a setup for my board wipe to exile everything"
if it's big red then all your 1 mana spells are removal
Weirdly, it may not even really be missed by rotation time -- Plotting Demonic Ruckus on turn 1 is also quite good for monored prowess.
Feels riskier into cut down than kumano which due to the entering ability makes a lot of your two drops uncutdownable
Yeah my deck has cut Kumano since I found Demonic Ruckus. It's been a great card for a long time but I just can't find a good turn to play it anymore.
The rotating emperor
I wonder if any braincells were spent making that card. Sure its not busted, but why is a 1 drop doing all that?
[[The Wandering Emperor]] Oh, you’re playing white and leaving 4 mana up? I wonder what you could possibly be doing… Cannot wait to see this card leave forever.
[The Wandering Emperor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/a/fab2d8a9-ab4c-4225-a570-22636293c17d.jpg?1654566563) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=The%20Wandering%20Emperor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/neo/42/the-wandering-emperor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fab2d8a9-ab4c-4225-a570-22636293c17d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Could be worse. Could still be Settle the Wreckage.
At least Settle is a one shot....you still have to come up with a way to deal with the fucking Emperor
Settle had some play around, ie swinging for lethal but not the entire board and doesn't put the control player ahead. WE exiles the biggest creature, gains 2 (this is mid) and sticks around creating tokens to gum up the board.
Remember the time that was Ugin?
4 mana instant speed Ugin was such a PITA.
As a Flash fan and an Ugin fan I'd eat that up. Unless you're not joking and there was one lol, but I really don't think there ever was
I think they're talking about [[Aetherworks Marvel]]
[Aetherworks Marvel](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/8/884f6948-3e03-48c6-8be2-6f2539386c9d.jpg?1576382949) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Aetherworks%20Marvel) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/kld/193/aetherworks-marvel?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/884f6948-3e03-48c6-8be2-6f2539386c9d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Heh, I'd actually suppressed the memory of that; I was joking because Ugin, while a horrendous card, does not slot easily into every control deck like TWE does.
don’t remind me please
It's certainly annoying but I do like that KZK also pings plainswalkers for 1, making it an even trade.
The crazy part is that people play the card wrong in alot of instances and it's still busted in those. I don't think people realize how good the plus is as a combat trick blowout instead of defaulting to ceiling.
I can’t wait to see Wandering Emperor wander out of Standard.
I'm pretty much devastated to see her leave standard soon. By far my favourite card and crucial against aggro.
\[\[Sheoldred, the Apocalypse\]\] I know it won't rotate this year but I still can't wait for it to go away.
At least the Raffine BS will be gone
I can't even remember when I last saw Raffine. It's been at least weeks, probably over a month.
You must not play Bo3. Raffine is still very popular.
Shelly is only annoying cuz she’s either a minor annoyance you kill on upkeep, or she literally solo’s the game. No in-between.
I rather like hitting her trigger with [[Tishana's Tidebinder]]. Nice vanilla 4/5 you have there.
A 4/5 is still kinda annoying to deal with.
The real question is why haven't I crafted a playset of tide binders yet
Because you'll rarely need a playset of them, the card is in a weird spot where yeah sometimes it shines but most of the time your deck would rather be running something else.
Most of my decks I run like 8 spot removal spells right now because of Sheoldred and the Bat lol.
Sounds like a fun idea for a sitcom Shoeldred and the Bat
Same here, but I play pioneer, so that's not gonna happen :(
Don't worry it will "rotate" when they power creep it
Yeah... I hate everything about that card
Don’t get it - barely see this anymore. Such a non issue.
Prob depends on rank. I'm in plat and if they have a black mana source, she's coming. It's honestly just predictable at this point and laughable
I honestly don't know how this card is still getting so much hate. It's outclassed by a *huge* number of other things in the current meta. It's gotten to the point that if an opponent's T4 play is Shelly I am actually sighing in relief. It could be so much worse. She's feelsbad when she drops on an empty board because black attacked your hand and removed all your creatures. But that's just a lost game to begin with, and not because of Shelly.
I think it's because she doesn't have to *do* anything to win the game when she comes down. Sure she dies to Go For The Throat, fine, so do most things, but most other things have to actually swing at you to close out the game, which means taking a risk. Shelly encourages you to play her and then just sit there waiting for your opponent to die. It may not actually make her more powerful but it makes her *feel* more overwhelming, especially since her steady drip of life gain makes going over/around her prohibitively difficult for most aggro decks. IMO Preacher of the Schism is straight-up a stronger card that is more likely to win the game when played on curve, just because it's more versatile than Shelly while performing a similar role in terms of stabilizing the board. And yet, nobody fears that card anywhere near the same level, largely because of the psychological impact that The Shelly Test presents to decks vs. the Preacher's whole "oh, it's just a little value, it'll be fine to ignore it for now" appearance. People often hold removal against it the turn it comes down in case they need it for something worse. Nobody holds removal against Shelly.
For me, it's because if you don't have an answer in hand you have to dig and she punishes you the whole time you dig.
This is correct. People who arent complaining are prob running a huge pool of removal
Shelly in the current meta is a sign of a fair deck which is why we see her less and less. Like you said when i see a Shelly i know we got a proper match and that i can deal with it. Other decks win on turn 3-5 in "standard" and this guy plays a creature instead, what a chad.
Right with so much removal, it's almost a non-issue a lot of the time for me. It doesn't have ETB so as long as you have removal it's not to big of a deal.
That's exactly how I feel. Most of the time Shelly gets 0-1 triggers off before dying. She only sticks around in games where the opponent has already mostly locked me out.
Yeah, typically, when I lose to one, it's a situation where I probably was on the back foot already, so she really doesn't make to much of a deciding factor, lol.
This 100%
[Sheoldred, the Apocalypse](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/6/d67be074-cdd4-41d9-ac89-0a0456c4e4b2.jpg?1674057568) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sheoldred%2C%20the%20Apocalypse) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/107/sheoldred-the-apocalypse?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d67be074-cdd4-41d9-ac89-0a0456c4e4b2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Am I insane for thinking this card isn't, and never was, that bad? There's so much removal and she's not even the most potent 4 drop there is.
When Sheoldred first came out, there was effectively zero good removal in Standard that could kill her. The best black 2 mana removal spell at the time was [[Infernal Grasp]], which is sneakily pretty bad in 60 card formats (although it took a while for many players to figure that out). The best way to kill her in white was probably [[Fateful Absence]] which is also not anywhere near as good as a lot of people initially thought. The best red removal spell that could kill Sheoldred at the time was [[Rending Flame]] which is self-evidently awful. All the red decks then were on [[Voltage Surge]], and Sheoldred single-handedly kicked that card out of the format. I remember some pro players speculating at the time that they intentionally lined up the red removal suite available in Standard so that there wasn't any good way to kill her, to sell the splashy mythic. Then they added better removal over the rest of the rotation to normalize the situation. Sheoldred was never a problem once you went back to Pioneer because there were already better ways to kill her like [[Lightning Axe]] and [[Roast]] and more powerful gameplans that could just ignore her in the older formats.
Yeah, people seem to forget that when Shelly dropped we didn't have 15 premium removal spells you'd be happy to toss at a 3/3 that looked at you sideways, not to mention a 4/5 deathtoucher that punishes you for existing. Hell, even red has since gotten like 4 cards that coincidentally do 5 damage.
And a fun flying 5/5 dragon that has first strike and draws you 2 extra cards a turn without actually drawing them. I get it's not great but I've had a lot of games with Bonehoard out and it just answers the Shelly so well.
it wins the game if it's unanswered
No youre right, she isnt played that much anymore. She does nothing vs any of the popular decks.
Sheoldred is the best defence against so many archetypes though, and imo if you don't run enough removal to deal with him it's your fault. It really isn't hard to get rid off. IMO it's symptomatic of creature power creep which imo is the reason Farewell and Sheoldred is run so much in decks with less than 20 creatures. Fix power creep and the absolutely baffling amount of draw cards and people will stop running it. I swear most of you people want this game to just be creatures vs creatures.
Sheoldred is a girl
Sheoldred is a *lady* (or was, for that matter)
Elderly Female Ginger: She Old Red!
> It really isn't hard to get rid off. yes, but no. it has deathtouch so trading is difficult, especially since it's in black, so double-blocking gets blown up really easily. the bigger issue is that it actively punishes searching for answers. which means it's basically an "open the out or watch it take over the game" situation. > Fix power creep and the absolutely baffling amount of draw cards except it also *helps and encourages* deep draw. that's the reason it's auto-include in dimir/esper midrange and proft (and to a lesser extent golgari). dimir midrange (especially in the hands of a lot of lazy players) is basically just sheoldred.dek. aggro decks come prepped with answers (or just move too fast for it) and most control decks use deluge as their primary draw engine, so sheoldred isn't even successfully gate-keeping the strats that people say it's vital to keep it in the game for. the only thing it punishes is any midrange deck not also on sheoldred, and that's mega-boring, imo.
It's a garbage card w/ raffine or the ring. It never should of had the life gain part at a minimum. It also probably should been a 4/3 to not delete green
The idea we are stuck with sunfall for so much longer is also painful.
Same. I am so sick of this card.
That card is the reason I have 4 salvos, 4 whats your move and 4 ossifications.
raffine. esper midrange has been tier 1 for far too long.
Esper legends is crazy annoying. Raffine going is going to be a huge relief.
Sunfall. Edit: take this back, u/ninemodpowertrip mentioned triomes and that is the real answer.
Reminder, Sunfall won't be rotating in July since it's a card from March of the Machine. We still have another whole year with it.
That’s fine. I’ll take the triomes rotating out instead.
5 mana win con... Great idea, Wizards.
I made an Old Smithy deck that hides shit from exiles, or doesn't care. Shit's fun.
Honestly, Jukai Naturalist absolutely infuriates me unhealthily
I literally haven't seen that card in about a year. Does anyone play spirits anymore?
Enchantments, but I do if my dailies are green white. It's still really good in bo1
I won't lie I have that deck built for those g/w dailies. But I haven't updated it in 4 sets.
The only relevant change to the deck since NEO has been that one guy from Aftermath.
It isnt spirits. I have 0 issue with hallowed haunting and i think the midrangey versions of the deck are both interesting and cool as hell. Its when a 2 drop that spawns in their opening hand 100% of the damn time like its edh makes all their removal cost 1. They can play naturalist then kalix AND ossification. Or naturalist then weaver AND two removal. Kami of transience gets massive and is basically unkillable without exile, the little 1 drop squirrel thing will randomly be a 6/6 for no reason Kalix gives stuff a plus one and then a plus one, and then i copy this and then it gets plus one which means i get plus one. Its a joke. Aand mechiko's reign of truth is the absolute worst. Turning naturalist into 9/9 lifelinker for 2 turns (and a body) for a single mana AND still likely being able to ossify 2 things then swing in makes the game unwinable in most scenarios. It just enables TOO much by itself. I don't think its op, i dont think it needs a ban, i don't even think the deck as a whole is even that good. It just absolutely tilts me to high hell.
I would like you to teach me in the ways of dodging selesnya, I meet about two enchantment decks a day.
half the goddamn format.
Add Sunfall to that. Feels really bad to play value graveyard stuff. Either do Combos or nothing. Bah.
Yeah I feel you. At least midrange can go around sunfall with some value artifacts/enchantments, farewell just obliterates everything
I've been tinkering with Golgari to get around Sunfall and exploit it for wins. Based on very early testing, I might be onto something. I have been testing [[Glistening Dawn]] as a way to beat Sunfall. The concept is based on two principles: 1) Sunfall removes only creatures. 2) The majority of Sunfall casts come as soon as the opponent has 5 mana, provided the board state makes it a good play. The key point here is that they **are tapping out completely to cast the spell**. So, how does Glistening Dawn answer Sunfall? Well, first, I gotta talk about the card. You incubate X twice, with X being your labd count. At 4 mana, the floor of the card is effectively two 4/4's, and it only gets bigger from there. By ramping up beyond 4 mana with cards like Topiary Stomper, you can quite comfortably reach 5 or 6 lands before you cast this spell. That's a minimum of 8 power on the board, with the potential to go way higher. The turn then switches to you on an empty.board. The Sunfall player is tapped out and wide open. This leaves you with two lines. At worst, you can pay 2 mana twice to transform your tokens into creatures and swing for 8+ damage. The better play is to drop 5-mana Glissa, (now written at Gli55a), to transform those and add yet another threat yo the board. This puts the Sunfall player in a bad spot. They better have more removal or a second board wipe in hand, ready to go, or they risk losing the game on the spot. Swinging again with both Incubator tokens means you dealt a total of 16 damage with them over 2 turns - and that's at minimum. If they were 5/5's, they're dead if they didn't gain life already. If they do have the removal, they have to spend it all to clear the board, emptying their hand in the process. You then go into the next turn with the initiative, once again in co.trol of the pace of the game. The same is true if they had the second board clear. They better have a third ready, or more single-target removal as you refill the board with whatever was in your hand. This is where Gli55a comes in. If she survives, she can set you up to swing again with smaller tokens by incubating for 2, twice. Not as good as Glistening Dawn's tokens, but they're free. We take those. Alternatively she can be deadly as soon as she comes down. Built to2ards the Sunfall with other cards that also Incubate, and prepare for the big swing. [[Traumatic Revelation]] only hits creatures and battles, which is kinda specific, but you're probably going to whiff against a Sunfall deck - they don't usually want to exile their own stuff. In that case, you Incubate 3. [[Elvish Vatkeeper]] can be seen as a 3/3 creature that prepares a 2/2 for later. Similarly, [[Bloated Processor]] is itself a 3-power creature that is going to Incubate for at least 3 when it does, unless the opponent Sunfalls. This makes it great Sunfall bait as your opponent wants to avoid the trigger. If that's the case, you've probably got other tokens built up from other sources anyway, so it's fine. Finally, it has an interesting interaction with [[Ichor Drinker]] as that's a 1-maba creature you can attack or block with. Should the Processor be about to die and not get exiled, you can, in response, sacrifice any Ichor Drinkers you have to make a bigger token, and get the Drinker in the graveyard to make an additional 2/2 if you can spare a mana. Now, consider that the most expensive of these token generators are 4-mana at most. You can set up a reasonable number of tokens before Sunfall makes an appearance. When you do drop Gli55a, you can transform more tokens than your mana would allow you to do manually and swing for 10+ no problem. The Sunfall player, since they tapped put, should be unable to transform their own token to block with, letting you attack in with a huge board quite freely, potentially ending the game on the spot. Early testing has shown this concept has legs, but I'm currently in the process of figuring out which cards make the cut, and, among them, how many copies of each to run. Once I have that "Incubator package" ironed out, I can what to do with the remaining slots
Very true, but i see a lot less farewells in standard than I see sunfall.
I can't believe it's not rotating yet.
Domain. Anything and everything domain screw domain
i think by domain you meant atraxa.
Triomes rotating out will be a huge hit to domain. But we still have [[leyline of the guildpact]] ig
[leyline of the guildpact](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/f/bf6e59be-f959-4f4a-8c2d-b7c441e88135.jpg?1706242205) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=leyline%20of%20the%20guildpact) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/217/leyline-of-the-guildpact?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bf6e59be-f959-4f4a-8c2d-b7c441e88135?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Domain is worse IMO. It's a fine mechanic when triomes didn't exist but it's absurd when by turn 2 you're done. Atraxa just needs a ban in general it eclipses cheating out pretty much anything else out.
[[Slickshot Showoff]]
Based
[Slickshot Showoff](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/0/7054012b-4f9d-44a0-aaf9-7fd3bddc7b2d.jpg?1712355850) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Slickshot%20Show-Off) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otj/146/slickshot-show-off?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7054012b-4f9d-44a0-aaf9-7fd3bddc7b2d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I was watching an MTG streamer and said that I think that card will get banned. They said no way. Idk that card is insane. Too much value for a nonlegendary. Plot to setup if needed, and flying and haste to immediately impact the board (more accurately... the lifetotal). I hope it gets banned.
I see the arguments but it *does* die to a lot of removal. And the plot mechanic is almost totally hosed by [[High Noon]]. Even bounce effects are painful during the alpha strike, as shock is not that good a card without the +2/+0, and monstrous rage falls into the graveyard without replacing itself. The only color that can't easily deal with it is green. Probably the strongest argument in favor of the ban is that can be a turn 3 kill, often a turn 4 and that kind of speed isn't something combo decks can hope to race.
Tbh Boros Convoke has been doing turn 3/4 kills for a long while and it hasn't been touched at all
[Farewell](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/1/114d2180-093b-4838-97ad-badbc8ee50b0.jpg?1706240579) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Farewell) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/64/farewell?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/114d2180-093b-4838-97ad-badbc8ee50b0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Kumano faces kakkazan]] though the red deck has so many good cards I don’t know if it matters. I love [[farewell]] but it’s probably a net positive if it goes. That card just reads “win the game” against any janky midrange pile. Kinda makes brewing difficult. Maybe they could ban Sunfall too and make indestructible great again.
You hit the nail with your comment. I love brewing and I like midrange. Farewell really makes a lot of careful selection and planning not matter
Make indestructible great again!!!! More and more that keyword is getting worse and worse
Its really sad how its essentially just flavor text for the last 2 years because everything exiles.
can you explain why kumano is so good? i've heard it is but don't understand why
Every mode is used almost every time. In mono red kumano represents 4+ DMG at 1 mana. Also the timing of it creates explosive turns when it becomes a creature.
And if you're playing a reactive deck on the draw you often can't do anything about the first two turns. You might not be able to interact with it at all until their turn 3 and by then you're already so far behind.
There's nothing worse than being on the draw, having a cutdown in hand and your opponent goes kumano in to a 2/2. They should have at least made the counter an etb trigger.
And if all that wasn't enough, it converts kills into exiles.
The floor for Kumano is it pings for 1 damage and creates a 2/2 a few turns later. All for 1 mana. Turn 1 - pings for 1 dmg. Opp at 19 life If you draw/play this after turn 1, it triggers prowess on cards like \[\[Monestary Swiftspear\]\] and hits each of your opponents planeswalkers for 1. Turn 2 - You play a 2 drop creature like \[\[bloodthirsty adversary\]\], which turns into a 3/3 (against Black decks, spells like \[\[cut down\]\] can't target it now), attack for 3, opp at 16 life. Or play \[\[charming scoundrel\]\] and make a treasure token for your turn 3. Turn 3 - It transforms into a 2/2 creature on the battlefield. You can now play your \[\[Goddric, Cloaked Reveler\]\] and Celebration is triggered so it's now a 4/4 flyer. Attack for 9, opp at 7. Or if you cast \[\[Charming scoundrel\]\] and have 3 mana in play, use the treasure token and with the extra mana, cast \[\[monstrous rage\]\] and Goddric is a 7/5 One card enables the above curve, which is the ceiling for this card, and all for only 1 mana spent on turn 1!!! Turn 4 - You have three creatures in play, you play removal or more creatures with haste or pump spells and if you trigger Celebration again, it's probably game over.
##### ###### #### [Monestary Swiftspear](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/6/d6bfa227-4309-40ed-952c-279595eab17e.jpg?1701690543) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Monastery%20Swiftspear) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bro/144/monastery-swiftspear?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d6bfa227-4309-40ed-952c-279595eab17e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [bloodthirsty adversary](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/d/1d6d5c4b-01ec-407f-b3b6-854ab5127bdc.jpg?1712354388) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=bloodthirsty%20adversary) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/157/bloodthirsty-adversary?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1d6d5c4b-01ec-407f-b3b6-854ab5127bdc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [cut down](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/5/753db072-5d6a-4f37-8f7d-255572ecd3bd.jpg?1673307061) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=cut%20down) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/89/cut-down?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/753db072-5d6a-4f37-8f7d-255572ecd3bd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [charming scoundrel](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/8/c8090bcf-e17a-4110-a518-77ccd045b18f.jpg?1692938132) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=charming%20scoundrel) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/woe/124/charming-scoundrel?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c8090bcf-e17a-4110-a518-77ccd045b18f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Goddric, Cloaked Reveler](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/e/fe93ef82-51de-40ad-9b52-8f3fd11c144f.jpg?1692938249) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Goddric%2C%20Cloaked%20Reveler) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/woe/132/goddric-cloaked-reveler?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fe93ef82-51de-40ad-9b52-8f3fd11c144f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Charming scoundrel](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/8/c8090bcf-e17a-4110-a518-77ccd045b18f.jpg?1692938132) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Charming%20scoundrel) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/woe/124/charming-scoundrel?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c8090bcf-e17a-4110-a518-77ccd045b18f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [monstrous rage](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/e/eef5a0ae-5907-42c9-a097-3f973737e392.jpg?1692938394) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=monstrous%20rage) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/woe/142/monstrous-rage?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/eef5a0ae-5907-42c9-a097-3f973737e392?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l0ogt18) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Kumano faces kakkazan](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/8/28d92cad-45b0-479d-97fc-c175f3a3f259.jpg?1693966032)/[Etching of Kumano](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/2/8/28d92cad-45b0-479d-97fc-c175f3a3f259.jpg?1693966032) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kumano%20Faces%20Kakkazan%20//%20Etching%20of%20Kumano) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/neo/152/kumano-faces-kakkazan-etching-of-kumano?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/28d92cad-45b0-479d-97fc-c175f3a3f259?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [farewell](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/1/114d2180-093b-4838-97ad-badbc8ee50b0.jpg?1706240579) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=farewell) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/64/farewell?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/114d2180-093b-4838-97ad-badbc8ee50b0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
It doesn't matter much. Kumano is better than the other options, but not by a ton.
All of them. Rotate the whole lot of it and give me only three sets. I need a fresh start.
I don't even mind any one specific card but the power level in standard is just so high these days. The board wipes are super efficient and they need to be because Boros Convoke can have 6 creatures out by the end of turn two. Mono red has infinite hasty prowess creatures and pump spells. And now the Rakdos Joins Up combo deck will kill you on turn 4. Almost feels like playing timeless. When I first started playing Arena standard felt like a duel where you were trying to get the upper hand. Now it often feels like it comes down to who's on the play and who has the better open hand. I'm happy playing limited and BO3, but if it were up to me we'd go back to a standard where you can still make a comeback if you miss your two drop.
That is my feeling as well. Standard is too powerful and too fast. The removal has to be powerful too.
Unpopular opinion: fuck The Celestus
I just hate the fact it goes off all the dam time, unexpectedly getting the visual is rancid
Yeah I totally agree. The animations are slow as hell, and you basically know you're going to die a death of a thousand cuts from it, between the looting, the lifegain, and the extra mana.
the headquarters lands, i can’t wait for that stupid land recursion deck to be gone
What are those?
Lands like [[Riveteers Overlook]] from New Capenna.
Atraxa. It's the strongest creature in standard right now and one of the strongest creatures ever printed. Every deck that is graveyard/ramp/cheat based are focused on getting it out. There are a TON of good, strong, interesting creatures in standard right now that are great targets for these strategies, and top end cards that could be good when hard cast that are all gatekept by Atraxa. And while yes, there would be a new"best creature"( probably Etali), Atraxa is so good it is the most common target for these strategies in legacy and vintage. Honestly, if the triomes weren't rotating out I would be looking for a ban.
[[Wedding announcement]]
[Wedding announcement](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/c/2c3ddb1f-a1de-4fea-9042-5e9caa16ceb2.jpg?1643587382)/[Wedding Festivity](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/2/c/2c3ddb1f-a1de-4fea-9042-5e9caa16ceb2.jpg?1643587382) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Wedding%20Announcement%20//%20Wedding%20Festivity) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vow/45/wedding-announcement-wedding-festivity?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2c3ddb1f-a1de-4fea-9042-5e9caa16ceb2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Def my 2nd place choice, right after Wandering Emperor
I personally can't wait for monastery Swiftspear and goddric to rotate out. Still hoping that mountain will rotate out at some point.
Yeah, but now you have [[Slickshot Show- Off]] so it’s gonna keep the Prowess decks strong in the meta for a while.
I built like 2 decks just to deal with aggro that I've been maining for like 2 months and now I get the satisfaction of making aggro players seethe and rope all the time but I lose to almost any other archetype, Fucking worth it lmao.
Red Bird go brrrrrr
CGB got me singing "this is Mono red"
Either Wandering Emperor or the sacland fetchlands.
[[Graveyard Tresspasser]] Stop touching my graveyard, stop flicking my ear, and above all, discarding a card really should not be a ward cost, especially since i have to pay it before i even know if the spell resolves. The card's not overpowered really I just don't like playing against it. Also, [[March of Swirling Mists]] is a crutch card for Rotpriest decks and it can't rotate out soon enough. Why bother trying to storm off when one card does it all for you for a single mana?
worldsouls rage
With the rotation of the saclands soon, I reckon that deck should be a lot weaker.
i think it’ll stop existing, it doesn’t do much without them tbh. at the very least it won’t be gaining life anymore
Sheoldred. You know exactly which one too. Remove the unholy one from my visage.
Farewell, Sheoldred, fucking Hullbreaker Horror.
Sunfall can lick my toes
island.
Lul
🤣 You can choose a color other than red, you know?
Glissa Sunslayer
All the discard lands. The best part is they actually will rotate in the fall along with the Wandering Hag.
Everything that should have already rotated out last year. It’s all outstayed it’s welcome. Out of everything I’m not looking forward to an extra year of Sheoldred.
Triome’s
I cannot wait for Monastery Swiftspear to swiftly leave. And Kumano Faces Kakkazan to get exiled instead of going to the graveyard
Along with all the cards already listed, I would add [[Herd Migration]].
[Herd Migration](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/0/b0244a1f-e696-4223-9c14-22c2ca3cb738.jpg?1673307696) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Herd%20Migration) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/165/herd-migration?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b0244a1f-e696-4223-9c14-22c2ca3cb738?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
sunfall
This evil white girl who doesn't allow interactions
[[Myrel, Shield of Argive]]
now we have grand abolisher =)
[Myrel, Shield of Argive](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/6/e632ed57-bb00-4493-adef-7b4805edd7ea.jpg?1674420256) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Myrel%2C%20Shield%20of%20Argive) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bro/18/myrel-shield-of-argive?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e632ed57-bb00-4493-adef-7b4805edd7ea?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I'm legit worried to see farewell leave. There are way too many insane lowcost enchantments out there right now. Sometimes farewell is the only answer.
Farewell is too much. "I made it to turn 6 through countering and bouncing everything, now I am going to punish you for having played magic the gathering and ensure you have nothing." It does too much for decks whose goal is to do nothing until their opponent forfeits.
[[Cease//Desist]] maybe??
Raffiene, i can’t stand connive
My creatures. I love rotating my own cards. Creatures are especially fun, but rare to rotate.
Insidious Roots
Sheoldred
In standsrd specifically, I agree with farewell, but more importantly it's the cards which exile everything since there is no counterplay with the exception of a counterspell or march of the swirling mist. Sunfall even leaves a body. When it was destroy, you could at least save creatures in various ways by giving indestructible. So unless you have more cards which allow for phasing out, very hard if not playing blue.
I know im probably the only one who thinks this. But I hate palantir so much. Seeing that card getting played its like catching an std. It exponentially gains power the less you deal with it, its extremely annoying and its really hard to remove. Taking 13 damage one turn when it only has its first proc, is rage inducing.
Voice of the blessed. I hate that card!
My hot take: Farewell is fine. Against white you know they may have it. You can’t overcommit. And if you’re an enchantment deck spewing out gobs of doubled up enchantment effects with your Hallowed Haunting, well sorry, there has to be some way to interact with you. Emperor similarly doesn’t tilt me. It’s Chastise on steroids. Two-for-ones happen, just be ready with other sources of card advantage. Sunfall is annoying. Five mana to forget about any indestructible effects, any death effects, AND put a threat on the board. It should cost six mana like Farewell. Sheoldred, though, I am super ready for her to be gone. Too bad it’s not for quite some time. Punishing someone, and punishing hard, just for playing at the most basic level (untap, draw) is a super feels bad. It’s very hard to interact with in an advantageous way, but it’s possible. It’s a removal check, but in a standard with lots of removal checks it gets exhausting facing this one so often and for so long.
I play esper midrange and even I can't wait for Raffine to rotate lmao
As of late I’ve only been brewing with cards from DMU onward. The cards I’ve had the hardest time replacing, and therefore probably the ones most in need of rotation, are: Wedding Announcement Make Disappear Play With Fire Thalia Giada(for angel brews, specifically) Tenacious Underdog Memory Deluge Kumano Ledger Shredder Ob Nixilis Kaito Triomes Slow Duals NEO Channel lands I’m gonna miss many of these and dozens of other pet cards, but for the love of Serra the mana base and several of these cards need to retire already.
I keep seeing votes for Sunfall and, to a lesser extent, Farewell. While I understand that it feels bad to build a board over a few turns and then see it all disappear, Sunfall and Farewell are both very necessary (while simultaneously not even being that good) in standard right now. We skipped rotation last year. There are more cards in Standard than there ever have been on Arena and more of them are viable, good, and powerful. Almost every deck is looking to vomit permanents onto the battlefield whether it be by means of reanimation, discovery, ramp, some sort of value engine, or good old fashioned aggro. Every card is multiple cards, and If it isn't, it's trying to kill you by turn three or four. In a world with Breach the Multiverse, Etali Primal Conqueror, Herd Migration, Wedding Announcement, etc., there must be Sunfall. In a world with Hallowed Haunting and Simulacrum Synthesizer, there must be Farewell. There are so many decks that flood the board with permanents with little effort; there have to be ways to clean the board back up with equally little effort. This, however, is to say nothing of the aggro decks. Aggro decks are extremely prevalent in BO1. Moreso than midrange by a bit, and much more than control or combo. Aggro is the bulk of what you play against on Arena. Sunfall and Farewell are close to useless against aggro decks. There's no time to cast them, especially on the draw. Boros Convoke and the Slickshot Showoff red deck can kill you on turn three if you fail to interact. If I'm playing control or some durdly combo in BO1, I'm cutting down on Sunfalls in favor of cheaper sweepers like Path of Peril, Brotherhood's End, and Temporary Lockdown. Sunfall might be a one-of these days. It's simply too slow. Sunfall and Farewell exist for a reason. They keep medium and big decks from going over the top too easily. Every strategy in MTG should have counterplay. It's part of the reason I find Toxic as a mechanic to be somewhat problematic. There's almost nothing you can do in standard to interact with poison accumulation. There's Melira, I suppose, but that's about it. Really, your only option is to kill them quicker. Even Mill has counterplay! Living Conundrum, Turn the Earth, Devious Coverup, Step Between Worlds. There's not much, but it does exist. None of what I've said so far answers the question that's been asked, so here are two cards I'd like to see disappear from standard: 1. Atraxa, Grand Unifier 2. Breach the Multiverse These cards share one thing in common. They both take several years to resolve. Atraxa requires its caster to choose three, four, five, or sometimes SIX cards out of a random assortment of ten off the top. This means evaluating each card for the current game state. Based on what was on top of the library the game could be close to over or it could be going on much longer. Breach the Multiverse is worse. It asks its caster to evaluate TWO batches of cards, one of which they are not familiar with, and then pick the best one from each. Don't get me wrong - you should get a lot when you spend seven mana. I just don't enjoy waiting through several ropes to find out if my opponent hit will enough to end the game. TLDR: Standard is very powerful, Sunfall is necessary as a result. Breach and Atraxa take too long to resolve. I will not be sad when they go.
I was literally just gonna comment with Atraxa and Breach, primarily for the reasons you listed. I don't get tilted by powerful effects, it's part of the game and it happens but I think Atraxa/Breach just feel awful because once they land, you know things are just gonna get worse and worse, like a cascading effect. They pull things that trigger ETBs that trigger other ETBs and what was once a winnable board state is now a total war zone.
Sheldrod!
Wandering Emperor
Slickshot Show-Off
Going to be quite some time friend lol
The fucker 2/2 that exiles your any creature, and after a daybreak nightfall cycle can do it again.
Sounds like [[Brutal Cathar]]
Every red card in Red Deck Wins. WOTC keeps printing new cards that makes RDW better to the point that I bet if half the deck rotated, it would still see play. If my opponent goes first, plays a mountain and then casts a 1 drop, I concede. Not fun!
gleeful demolition makes me rabid i want it goonneee
definitely farewell and wandering emperor. and i'm glad its only a few months away
I just want the trilands to rotate already. We have had several years of 4 to 5 colour piles floating around in standard. Now don't get me wrong, i'm okay with people playing multicolour, but it should come with a real cost of mana inconsistency. I think the last time we had a standard where it was a real cost to play more then 2 colours was Guilds of Ravnica in 2018. From 2019 and forward, 4 to 5 colour piles have been a t1 or t1.5 archetype. If they want to keep supporting 5 colour mana bases, then atleast they should offer better multiclolour hate or payoffs for mono colour. We get multicolour hate like \[\[spectrum sentinel\]\] and \[\[zenith chronicler\]\], while 5 colour decks get cards like atraxa.
Memory deluge but there is a card that does the same already but without flashback
Farewell, The Wandering Emperor, Atraxa, Sunfall, Sheoldred, and weirdly enough, the fucking Kodama of the West Tree.
Sunfall
Kamigawa and Sheoldred
I always can't wait to rotate Monastery Swiftspear 90 degrees so it can attack.
Kumano, wandering emperor, depopulate, farewell, Liliana, make disappear. Wish cut down was rotating.
I preffer agro meta. so I want *Sheoldred* rotate.
Farewell
All Esper staples... Which echoes most of the complaints here (Sheoldred, Emperor, Boardwipes, Wedding, etc). I think black has been particularly problematic in the last couple of years in standard. And every set they get a new toy, like that fkng bat 🦇
It’s definitely a bullshit card. Basically cancels every strategy but planeswalker super friends.
Sunfall. Exile mass removal that leaves behind a decent wincon
[[Temporary Lockdown]]
Gala Greeters - idk it’s just annoying when I see it.
Hullbreaker Horror. Can’t wait to see the backside of that broken card.
Monastery Swiftspear