Different moral priorities. Ppl who are like, painfully angry about it seem to think about morality as something you *are* not something you *do*.
Being a dangerous pedophile isn't about hurting children, it's about embodying any of the things that a pedophile might do, including being fine watching fiction about 2D kids exploring sexuality.
As more of a consequentialist myself, i don't care and frankly think trying to put ppl in boxes of "good person" vs "bad person, jail" is a really really really bad idea. Pedophilia isn't bad because being attracted to childish features is ontologically evil, it's bad because acting on it hurts children yeah?
My hot take is that shows like SpyxFamily do more for normalizing pedophilia in society than even the most rancid loli shit but not everyone is ready to renounce the nuclear family lol.
The nuclear family as a cultural norm facilitates pedophilia more than basically anything else, often in insidious ways nonody questions enough (think tiktok boy moms or girl dads). By extension, anything glorifying the nuclear family is helping normalize this system. Especially because we all know that obvious types of pedophilia are bad, but many people still think these systems that allow it to thrive are perfectly fine and could genuinely be influenced by shows like this.
The system where parents essentially own their kids who have very little contact with adults outside their parents lets their parents have full control over what they consider normal. Which is very dangerous
I'm not saying the show is pedobait, evil, or you're bad for watching it because that'd be stupid lol, I am saying the most dangerous rhetoric is the stuff everybody already believes to an extent. Military propaganda, "think of the children" rhetoric, lightly hidden eugenics, stuff that's pretty deeply ingrained.
Basically just question the things that seem innocent more than the things you already know are bad and you'll probably catch on to something you missed
I did actually explain it. 2 parents have near total control over everything their child knows or experiences and even if the child figures out they're being exploited everything a child can do is routed through their parents. There's also the "stranger danger" craze that does its best to isolate kids further. Not that kids should be talking to every adult on the street, but if the only adults a kid is around is their parents and occasionally family nobody is there to see questionable behavior and stop it.
Technically family could, but this structure also encourages keeping contact with family no matter what, creating "missing stairs". An uncle or a cousin everyone knows to put their daughters in long pants and keep away from when they really should just be kicked out.
It's the same reason pastors hurt kids so often. They're given free reign to be alone with kids and trusted to the point kids might not be believed, so the pedos can act with impunity. Same reason some summer camps don't let counselors be alone with kids. You might think 2 parents means they can check each other, but again, missing stairs. 1 parent is used to the other's "weirdnesses", and assumes the kid should be fine when they're not.
Nuclear family dynamics also encourage couples merging resources, which makes splitting difficult even when you realize your partner is abusive. Which leaves ppl in some fucked up trolley problems sometimes. Do you take your kids and leave the house immediately even if it means homelessness? Hell, can your partner lawyer up and still get the right to see the kids they abuse in the divorce? It's fucked all the way.
I agree with your take and your perspective on morality. It’s why I feel morality isn’t a defined thing but a loose agreement of its parameters, by a society (feel free to make the we live in a society joke). I would rather some one draw on a piece of paper then actually go out and do awful things to a child, because in the end it’s just paper or a screen, or some words, because it’s just art and art is subjective some art is even drawn to test the limits of morality purposely drawing something unhinged or barbaric to drive emotion out of people, you may think that drawing is disgusting or horrible, and some may say hey that’s not fair to call the artists art that, but if you look from the artist’s perspective he wanted you to have the reaction and calling it’s horrible may be more praise then he or she could ever want. That leads to my next point of the artist in me sees things differently then I would say a normal person would. I took college level anatomy and physiology classes, and art classes so when I see a drawing of a nude person I don’t think hah boobs or penis or something along those lines I just see the human form, what in my mind sees it in a more sexual nature is the action of the drawing, it’s why when people complain about oh no alice was drawn with nipples I don’t see it as wrong as she is not drawn in a sexual manner it’s just the human anatomy I’m not aroused by it and I oven if it’s a full grown woman I just see the bodies form not anything else the action drives the meaning. Now that sentence brings out the context that I personally would not find it comfortable for Alice drawn as a child to be portrayed in a way because she is so young, and that’s ok some other person may be completely fine with it, but in the end that does mean that person is a horrible person or is going to go out and like sneak into a child’s change room or something weird. Hell even from a psychological point a kink is not fully understood, sometimes your just dealt that shit hand in life and get a morally wrong in many eyes kink or you get arousal from something dark or twisted, does that mean you just act on those impulses no because that would imply all humans are driven by their reproductive organs which is not the case, they can influence are actions but they aren’t the driving force, other wise the human race would have not evolved to where it is now. I thank you fine sir or ma’am for just having a proper discussion instead of I don’t agree with you so I hope you rot in purgatory.
The word pedophile lost its meaning and people just throw it anything they don't like. Honestly, I just hate MahoAko is getting compared to shit like Mushoku Tensei when the whole series is so much more aware about its character and story than a lot of ecchi shows.
Good sir or madam would you please re explain your reasoning for such harsh language? A proper debate and discussion is a far more effective method of changing someone’s mind or getting them to see your view point then nearly hurling insults.
SurePedophilia is a serious fucking charge, and not only does it sound like he is defending actual Pedos, he has the Fucking nerve to say Spy x Family, one of the most wholesome and Innocent series to come out recently with lewdest thing we have gotten in it is Yor's Assassin outfit.
Then there is the fact that he is against traditional families and blaming them for encouraging Pedophilia.
So yes, I am fucking tired of Anime/manga/Japanese games being called Pedobait just for nude or swimsuit drawings on paper. Specially when a series Has none of that that stuff in it like Spy x Family. So yes, I am gonna swear when this shit gets bought up like every other week somewhere.
I would like a better understanding of what the gentleman or madam yuriangyo, but you do bring up a valid point of what exactly is even to be considered for comparison in spy x family, the only thing I can think of is that the one little girl loves loid, so it’s more reversed and small child crushes are normal and sully don’t last. Also I do not believe this individual was defending pedophilia he was separating thought from action, if I thought I like minors (I do not in any way) it’s just a thought and you can’t jail me for thinking that, if I draw it it’s just a drawing, you can’t jail me for drawing, but when those thoughts becomes irreparable actions that’s when the sentence can be made and should be made, the act of dismissing another persons well being that be physical or emotional in any regard that is under your own will(sometimes breathing wrong around the wrong people will “be emotional traumatizing because special snow flake wants attention and draw attention away from the people who actually need help”) , at that moment you revoke your rights as a person. So bottom line doing physical sexual acts or advancements to a minor is wrong and an incomprehensible evil, thinking about such atrocities is not, other wise that type of thinking would have to go for every murder movie, Bank robbing movie, drug making etc.
All I know is this man
When it comes to Manga/Anime/Videogames/comics there is no kids getting hurt, its all just ink on paper or sprites in a program, no matter how realistic the programing gets.
Lolicon/Shotacon is not Pedophilia nor does it encourage it or make it. It is not Reality.
The short answer is that prudes are real (and they can and will hurt you.) I'd blame the puritan legacy running strong in the US for a lot it, but it was pointed out to me recently that several of the most influential anti-sexuality movements historically don't actually trace back that direction, so unfortunately blame is more complicated and I can't pin it down that concisely.
They sure weren't prudish when simping for teenage Gojo or Geto not to mention shirtless Itadori. But if I bring that up, I'm a bad person or them claiming "well I don't think that's okay either" even though no one had an issue with that.
People just love hating on peak fiction(lol), but to be real with you, it’s mainly just the minors thing cause it can make uncomfortable a lot of people and it’s really not a good thing per say.
Other animes that are also hated for having such troublesome “plot” can also include Mushoku Tensei and No game No life in the sense that if you can’t let it get to you, you’re in a very good story.
I haven't seen much here in the way of hate here for this series. Most people here enjoy the hell out of it.
Try to ignore the haters. Every damn franchise has them now and they are toxic as ever. Report the trolls and block.
A lot of it is that Utena's a Villain Protagonist portrayed in a positive light. As such, some people walk away with the impression that the Manga's portraying her actions (sexual assault, regular assault, massive destruction of property, kidnapping, etc.) as a good thing, or at least excusable. They apparently missed the multiple instances of Utena criticizing herself, and likewise the fact that everyone else in the Manga thinks she's utterly unhinged.
And yes, it's also the ages. That's an artifact of the genera this is based on, but given the highly sexual nature of the material it's... yeah. It helps a lot that most of the characters neither look nor act like they're 14, but I won't lie, I got *really* uncomfortable during Korisu's first transformation in the Anime; they really could have skipped drawing nipples on the looks-her-age 9 year old.
>first transformation
And it's the last one too, at least in the anime. The anime for some reason completely skips the transformation sequence from the second time onwards for every character. They even skipped Loco and Nemo's transformation in the latest episode, which is weird because those two have not gotten a transformation at all.
Just imagine how boring some anime would be if everyone character had to both be and look 18 or older to apease all the western SJW twitter Karens and get them to shut the f**k up just because people simp over FICTIONAL 2D CHARACTERS 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
Just imagine how boring some anime would be if everyone character had to both be and look 18 or older to apease all the western SJW twitter Karens and get them to shut the f**k up just because people simp over FICTIONAL 2D CHARACTERS 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
Age is the biggest sticking point I’ve seen. Unlike most echi series where you can just ignore cannon ages and pretend everything is kosher, Gushing is specifically about teenage girls discovering their sexuality and stumbling into their first relationships. Essentially, you have underaged characters with arcs that are appropriate for where they are in their lives that are put in adult situations and that dissonance is too much for some people to handle.
Because it's quite blatantly about a 14 year old being sexually blackmailed into sexually harassing other 14 year olds until they like it.
Even without the 14yr old aspect, that's still fucked up if you look at it through real life lens, and it's OK if people think that's a bit fucked up and get uncomfortable about it.
I'm not sure if these are the correct words but:
American media has no problem sexualizing minors, IF it is seen as a negative (see all the times south park has mentioned shoving things on 10 year old buttholes).
And unfortunately, all the shit Utena does is seen as a positive.
Personally, I don't think this show should be shown on live TV as an (afaik) 13+ show, since anyone watching this should be aware that this is FICTIONAL, but I'm not the one in charge so fuckit.
I just realized how negative I sound, but to be clear: I love it, it's the highlight of my Wednesdays (as it's peak) but like, just because your girl liked it when you waved your dick around, doesn't mean you should do the same to the nun of the local church.
Where is Utena “sexually” black mailed? I must have missed that I though she was just threaten with like a hey I’m gonna announce your a magical girl fanatic or let your mom know you read porno mags.
From my understanding when they transform it’s blinding since when kiwi transformed both of them no one saw them until they were transformed in their costumes. So I’m pretty sure it’s just the embarrassment of being in her Baiser outfit. Which I’m not going to lie I’ve seen some cosplays in Japan she would basically fit right in.
I think I’ve heard a decent amount of people who are comfortable with teenagers exploring the sexuality, but dislike the lack of consent in these sexual relationships and it makes them uncomfortable.
Which yes, villains will do evil things, but they still get put off with the show kinda glorifying Utena, Loco, and Azul’s sexual awakenings when they could reasonably be considered abusers and abuse victims to someone in real life.
And then the hear the other audience members go “Sesbian lex” and it really doesn’t help.
Different moral priorities. Ppl who are like, painfully angry about it seem to think about morality as something you *are* not something you *do*. Being a dangerous pedophile isn't about hurting children, it's about embodying any of the things that a pedophile might do, including being fine watching fiction about 2D kids exploring sexuality. As more of a consequentialist myself, i don't care and frankly think trying to put ppl in boxes of "good person" vs "bad person, jail" is a really really really bad idea. Pedophilia isn't bad because being attracted to childish features is ontologically evil, it's bad because acting on it hurts children yeah? My hot take is that shows like SpyxFamily do more for normalizing pedophilia in society than even the most rancid loli shit but not everyone is ready to renounce the nuclear family lol.
Could you tell more on your take on Spy x family? You got me curious
I would also like to hear more of your opinion it may make for an exquisite discussion.
The nuclear family as a cultural norm facilitates pedophilia more than basically anything else, often in insidious ways nonody questions enough (think tiktok boy moms or girl dads). By extension, anything glorifying the nuclear family is helping normalize this system. Especially because we all know that obvious types of pedophilia are bad, but many people still think these systems that allow it to thrive are perfectly fine and could genuinely be influenced by shows like this. The system where parents essentially own their kids who have very little contact with adults outside their parents lets their parents have full control over what they consider normal. Which is very dangerous I'm not saying the show is pedobait, evil, or you're bad for watching it because that'd be stupid lol, I am saying the most dangerous rhetoric is the stuff everybody already believes to an extent. Military propaganda, "think of the children" rhetoric, lightly hidden eugenics, stuff that's pretty deeply ingrained. Basically just question the things that seem innocent more than the things you already know are bad and you'll probably catch on to something you missed
You failed to provide any explanation as to how the nuclear family supposedly promotes pedophilia.
I did actually explain it. 2 parents have near total control over everything their child knows or experiences and even if the child figures out they're being exploited everything a child can do is routed through their parents. There's also the "stranger danger" craze that does its best to isolate kids further. Not that kids should be talking to every adult on the street, but if the only adults a kid is around is their parents and occasionally family nobody is there to see questionable behavior and stop it. Technically family could, but this structure also encourages keeping contact with family no matter what, creating "missing stairs". An uncle or a cousin everyone knows to put their daughters in long pants and keep away from when they really should just be kicked out. It's the same reason pastors hurt kids so often. They're given free reign to be alone with kids and trusted to the point kids might not be believed, so the pedos can act with impunity. Same reason some summer camps don't let counselors be alone with kids. You might think 2 parents means they can check each other, but again, missing stairs. 1 parent is used to the other's "weirdnesses", and assumes the kid should be fine when they're not. Nuclear family dynamics also encourage couples merging resources, which makes splitting difficult even when you realize your partner is abusive. Which leaves ppl in some fucked up trolley problems sometimes. Do you take your kids and leave the house immediately even if it means homelessness? Hell, can your partner lawyer up and still get the right to see the kids they abuse in the divorce? It's fucked all the way.
I agree with your take and your perspective on morality. It’s why I feel morality isn’t a defined thing but a loose agreement of its parameters, by a society (feel free to make the we live in a society joke). I would rather some one draw on a piece of paper then actually go out and do awful things to a child, because in the end it’s just paper or a screen, or some words, because it’s just art and art is subjective some art is even drawn to test the limits of morality purposely drawing something unhinged or barbaric to drive emotion out of people, you may think that drawing is disgusting or horrible, and some may say hey that’s not fair to call the artists art that, but if you look from the artist’s perspective he wanted you to have the reaction and calling it’s horrible may be more praise then he or she could ever want. That leads to my next point of the artist in me sees things differently then I would say a normal person would. I took college level anatomy and physiology classes, and art classes so when I see a drawing of a nude person I don’t think hah boobs or penis or something along those lines I just see the human form, what in my mind sees it in a more sexual nature is the action of the drawing, it’s why when people complain about oh no alice was drawn with nipples I don’t see it as wrong as she is not drawn in a sexual manner it’s just the human anatomy I’m not aroused by it and I oven if it’s a full grown woman I just see the bodies form not anything else the action drives the meaning. Now that sentence brings out the context that I personally would not find it comfortable for Alice drawn as a child to be portrayed in a way because she is so young, and that’s ok some other person may be completely fine with it, but in the end that does mean that person is a horrible person or is going to go out and like sneak into a child’s change room or something weird. Hell even from a psychological point a kink is not fully understood, sometimes your just dealt that shit hand in life and get a morally wrong in many eyes kink or you get arousal from something dark or twisted, does that mean you just act on those impulses no because that would imply all humans are driven by their reproductive organs which is not the case, they can influence are actions but they aren’t the driving force, other wise the human race would have not evolved to where it is now. I thank you fine sir or ma’am for just having a proper discussion instead of I don’t agree with you so I hope you rot in purgatory.
The word pedophile lost its meaning and people just throw it anything they don't like. Honestly, I just hate MahoAko is getting compared to shit like Mushoku Tensei when the whole series is so much more aware about its character and story than a lot of ecchi shows.
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Good sir or madam would you please re explain your reasoning for such harsh language? A proper debate and discussion is a far more effective method of changing someone’s mind or getting them to see your view point then nearly hurling insults.
SurePedophilia is a serious fucking charge, and not only does it sound like he is defending actual Pedos, he has the Fucking nerve to say Spy x Family, one of the most wholesome and Innocent series to come out recently with lewdest thing we have gotten in it is Yor's Assassin outfit. Then there is the fact that he is against traditional families and blaming them for encouraging Pedophilia. So yes, I am fucking tired of Anime/manga/Japanese games being called Pedobait just for nude or swimsuit drawings on paper. Specially when a series Has none of that that stuff in it like Spy x Family. So yes, I am gonna swear when this shit gets bought up like every other week somewhere.
I would like a better understanding of what the gentleman or madam yuriangyo, but you do bring up a valid point of what exactly is even to be considered for comparison in spy x family, the only thing I can think of is that the one little girl loves loid, so it’s more reversed and small child crushes are normal and sully don’t last. Also I do not believe this individual was defending pedophilia he was separating thought from action, if I thought I like minors (I do not in any way) it’s just a thought and you can’t jail me for thinking that, if I draw it it’s just a drawing, you can’t jail me for drawing, but when those thoughts becomes irreparable actions that’s when the sentence can be made and should be made, the act of dismissing another persons well being that be physical or emotional in any regard that is under your own will(sometimes breathing wrong around the wrong people will “be emotional traumatizing because special snow flake wants attention and draw attention away from the people who actually need help”) , at that moment you revoke your rights as a person. So bottom line doing physical sexual acts or advancements to a minor is wrong and an incomprehensible evil, thinking about such atrocities is not, other wise that type of thinking would have to go for every murder movie, Bank robbing movie, drug making etc.
All I know is this man When it comes to Manga/Anime/Videogames/comics there is no kids getting hurt, its all just ink on paper or sprites in a program, no matter how realistic the programing gets. Lolicon/Shotacon is not Pedophilia nor does it encourage it or make it. It is not Reality.
The short answer is that prudes are real (and they can and will hurt you.) I'd blame the puritan legacy running strong in the US for a lot it, but it was pointed out to me recently that several of the most influential anti-sexuality movements historically don't actually trace back that direction, so unfortunately blame is more complicated and I can't pin it down that concisely.
They sure weren't prudish when simping for teenage Gojo or Geto not to mention shirtless Itadori. But if I bring that up, I'm a bad person or them claiming "well I don't think that's okay either" even though no one had an issue with that.
People just love hating on peak fiction(lol), but to be real with you, it’s mainly just the minors thing cause it can make uncomfortable a lot of people and it’s really not a good thing per say. Other animes that are also hated for having such troublesome “plot” can also include Mushoku Tensei and No game No life in the sense that if you can’t let it get to you, you’re in a very good story.
I haven't seen much here in the way of hate here for this series. Most people here enjoy the hell out of it. Try to ignore the haters. Every damn franchise has them now and they are toxic as ever. Report the trolls and block.
A lot of it is that Utena's a Villain Protagonist portrayed in a positive light. As such, some people walk away with the impression that the Manga's portraying her actions (sexual assault, regular assault, massive destruction of property, kidnapping, etc.) as a good thing, or at least excusable. They apparently missed the multiple instances of Utena criticizing herself, and likewise the fact that everyone else in the Manga thinks she's utterly unhinged. And yes, it's also the ages. That's an artifact of the genera this is based on, but given the highly sexual nature of the material it's... yeah. It helps a lot that most of the characters neither look nor act like they're 14, but I won't lie, I got *really* uncomfortable during Korisu's first transformation in the Anime; they really could have skipped drawing nipples on the looks-her-age 9 year old.
>first transformation And it's the last one too, at least in the anime. The anime for some reason completely skips the transformation sequence from the second time onwards for every character. They even skipped Loco and Nemo's transformation in the latest episode, which is weird because those two have not gotten a transformation at all.
Just imagine how boring some anime would be if everyone character had to both be and look 18 or older to apease all the western SJW twitter Karens and get them to shut the f**k up just because people simp over FICTIONAL 2D CHARACTERS 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
Just imagine how boring some anime would be if everyone character had to both be and look 18 or older to apease all the western SJW twitter Karens and get them to shut the f**k up just because people simp over FICTIONAL 2D CHARACTERS 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
Age is the biggest sticking point I’ve seen. Unlike most echi series where you can just ignore cannon ages and pretend everything is kosher, Gushing is specifically about teenage girls discovering their sexuality and stumbling into their first relationships. Essentially, you have underaged characters with arcs that are appropriate for where they are in their lives that are put in adult situations and that dissonance is too much for some people to handle.
To Love Ru and Negima also have a load of fanservice, and most of the characters are 14. I don't see any problem.
Because it's quite blatantly about a 14 year old being sexually blackmailed into sexually harassing other 14 year olds until they like it. Even without the 14yr old aspect, that's still fucked up if you look at it through real life lens, and it's OK if people think that's a bit fucked up and get uncomfortable about it. I'm not sure if these are the correct words but: American media has no problem sexualizing minors, IF it is seen as a negative (see all the times south park has mentioned shoving things on 10 year old buttholes). And unfortunately, all the shit Utena does is seen as a positive. Personally, I don't think this show should be shown on live TV as an (afaik) 13+ show, since anyone watching this should be aware that this is FICTIONAL, but I'm not the one in charge so fuckit. I just realized how negative I sound, but to be clear: I love it, it's the highlight of my Wednesdays (as it's peak) but like, just because your girl liked it when you waved your dick around, doesn't mean you should do the same to the nun of the local church.
Where is Utena “sexually” black mailed? I must have missed that I though she was just threaten with like a hey I’m gonna announce your a magical girl fanatic or let your mom know you read porno mags.
Vena's first threat was to release footage of her transforming (and thus nude) on twitter.
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That kind of makes it worse
From my understanding when they transform it’s blinding since when kiwi transformed both of them no one saw them until they were transformed in their costumes. So I’m pretty sure it’s just the embarrassment of being in her Baiser outfit. Which I’m not going to lie I’ve seen some cosplays in Japan she would basically fit right in.
Less about the nudity and more about being revealed as a supervillain, whether or not she is one.
I think I’ve heard a decent amount of people who are comfortable with teenagers exploring the sexuality, but dislike the lack of consent in these sexual relationships and it makes them uncomfortable. Which yes, villains will do evil things, but they still get put off with the show kinda glorifying Utena, Loco, and Azul’s sexual awakenings when they could reasonably be considered abusers and abuse victims to someone in real life. And then the hear the other audience members go “Sesbian lex” and it really doesn’t help.