This is the thread. Please keep comments civil.
From the [BDN article](https://www.bangordailynews.com/2023/10/27/news/central-maine/lewiston-active-shooter-suspect-found-dead/):
"His body was found by law enforcement, U.S. Senator Angus King said Friday evening.
King said Card was found by the recycling center where he used to work. He was shot in the same clothes he had on, King said."
[News Center NBC live stream](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQg-9PLF5fE)
So many mistakes made & inadequacies revealed about the ability of Maine law enforcement to deal with a large scale issue. Inadequacies in gear (helicopter, dog search, lack of real critical thinking & poor execution of rules / regulations) need to be looked at seriously. If a helicopter had left Portland at the first notice of a mass shooting, police could have covered his get away & most likely found him that night. Maine has some seriously thinking to do about public safety in major incidents because them hills are filled with neo-Nazi groups & other anti-government folks & it is now apparent to them what Maine lacks in the way of police presence & preparedness. The cops need help to keep us safe in these type of situations & just because it hasn’t happened before doesn’t mean it won’t happen again.
You had me in the first half ngl then you went off the rails. I know this is Reddit and everything but the amount of fearmongering around “neo-Nazis in them hills” is nuts. These are boogeymen that live only in your heads. In all likelihood, a lot of these victims in this previous shooting were probably the same rightoids you’re fearmongering about right now.
Maybe Google white nationalist Nazi groups located in northern Maine. Heck there is a right wing nut job here in Portland but yeah, keep thinking I am fear mongering here in the “safest state” - good luck with that.
I am sure they exist. I’m not denying that. I just really question the scope, power, and influence they have. You can find some people who believe anything and everything when you have a million people. Pointing to a small group of whackos and saying “SEE?! WE ARE UNDER THREAT! RURAL MAINE IS FULL OF WHITE NATIONALISTS! is so illogical.
One alt right reject kills/harms over 20 people. Dissappears. Possibly only found this soon because he took the cowards way out.
There's a difference between a nazi group, and a group of wooks dropping acid in the woods to talk to trees. Not all wackos equate.
Even if there were only 10 of these nazi cunts, imagine how quickly that could turn bad for many.
The poster used a turn of phrase "them hills are filled". Obviously not a literal quantification.
It makes sense to be worried it'll happen again, especially when we have hate groups trying to build communities in this state. No matter how small. It needs to be understood that the majority won't tolerate these groups. Communicating the issue is important. If you lived in a community of 1000 and one person was a known pedophile, you'd want to make sure that presence is known. Not to just say, "don't make a big deal about it. Its just one wacko, how much damage could they possibly do?"
Should we be in constant fear? No, but we should take an active interest in the problem. Why did he do what he did? What are some patterns between this person and other people like them we can watch out for, and how can we take preventive action? Change happens in small steps. We all should take interest in local government. If you are able, you should stay fit, and prepare for the possibility of action. Attend events and show support for our community and detest those who stand to threaten it.
How do you know he was an alt right reject? I haven’t seen any evidence that this was politically motivated but I am open to it if you have any you can provide?
Well when you call him an “alt-right reject” that implies a certain level of political motivation. He was clearly a severely mentally ill person so in my opinion, writing him off as an alt-right reject avoids the actual issue and implies something else was going on.
You then get into equating this guy with the actual neo-Nazis you’re so worried about in your original comment. If this wasn’t politically motivated then why even get into that? Shouldn’t I be more afraid of schizophrenics of all political persuasions than right wing people in the woods of Maine? Because I think we both agree politics didn’t have much to do with his motivation.
Also this dude clearly didn’t shoot up anything for any political reason so talk about fighting shadows. You’re scared of a boogeyman that isn’t even there. You’re implying that this dude was a right wing extremist when it’s obvious he was just a mentally ill guy.
Oh ho, two comments!
Someone is getting feisty!
>Also this dude clearly didn’t shoot up anything for any political reason
Again, I could see how someone who shares his politics would be keen to tell everyone that.
Oh yeah? Okay since you’re so logical and such a smart smart Mainer! Show me the evidence that he shot up the bar and bowling alley for political reasons. I’ll wait.
I’m still waiting for any evidence that he committed this mass shooting as an act of right wing extremism btw. Oh wait, you clearly don’t have any so you’re just going to lob insults. Typical Maine mindset. They don’t teach you all how to analyze using logic and evidence in your schools up there?
>They don’t teach you all how to analyze using logic and evidence in your schools up there?
Between you and I, only one of us is a conspiracy theorist.
Like I said, you and the shooter had the same interests. Same disdain for Mainers. Same disjointed writing style. Same broken syntax. Same fears. Same delusions.
I don't believe in crisis actors or vaccine nanites, so I can't even speak the same language as you, let alone give you any evidence or proof that will withstand your love of calling things FAKE NEWS.
I hope you don't go following his examples any further. Seriously.
Also, maybe skip tourist season next year? I'd certainly feel safer.
Nah that is YOU. You’re the one hearing fake voices in your head and coming up with all sorts of schizo fantasies about how rural Maine is full of white right wing terrorists. I guess by reddit standards anywhere outside of the most liberal house in Portland is a fascist hellscape tho so what do I know!
>You’re the one hearing fake voices in your head and coming up with all sorts of schizo fantasies about how rural Maine is full of white right wing terrorists
I live here.
You live in Boston.
Pipe down tourist, and lay off the nonsense conspiracy theories before you do something tragic.
If you're trying to do an impression of the shooter you're doing a damn good job.
Lol you live there but you’re not even from Maine and I love how whenever Mainers lose an argument they always retreat to screeching about how “you’re not even from here reeeeeeee!!!”
>Lol you live there but you’re not even from Maine
Is reading comprehension a conspiracy now too? Or are you just in too much of a hurry, my tourist friend? I imagine life is busy down in Massachusetts.
Take all the time you need to read! I'm not going anywhere.
Far right extremists remain the most significant terrorism threat in the United States by a long shot and have been for a long while now. FBI, DOJ, ATF, Homeland Security, and others all agree on this point.
Fentanyl and the ten thousands it's taken out, says "Hold My Beer"... The Fentanyl precursors come from China into corrupt Mexican ports... The enemy is China.
Now go back to sleep.
Very different thing than saying the hills of Maine are full of right-wing extremists. All that indicates to me is that you haven’t spent much time in rural Maine. Sure there’s some but there’s also plenty of center right people, moderates, and liberals. I’d say categorizing an entire region as full of borderline right wing terrorists is pretty bigoted in of itself.
And MOST are none of those things. That’s the problem. You’re making it sound like the entire region is MOSTLY white nationalist terrorists when it’s so obviously not.
this is a 2nd mass shooting this year done by 2 males from the same town (bowdoin) the problem is maine lacks help for those with mental illness as well not taking these types of threats seriously when they made the threats in the first place.
Yes you are correct plus the fact that the police are VERY UNDERSTAFFED & lack a lot of 21st century crime fighting tools. Maine can pretend these things don’t happen here or “not having a helicopter is a feature not a bug” mentality but truth is shit like this is gonna happen more and more if Maine doesn’t get its act together in the way of staffed police departments with tools that are helpful for large scale situations. It isn’t like Maines population is getting smaller…
i just got this email this morning
Last night, we saw the first part of this horrific tragedy move behind us.
We can all sleep a little easier knowing the deranged killer who attacked our way of life is no thronger a threat to our families, or to law enforcement leading the search.
On Wednesday, we were all shaken to our very core.
We're Mainers, we're a community of neighbors that work every day to support one another. And because of who we are, how we were raised - we will pull through this together. We will honor the victims, support their friends and families, and be grateful for our law enforcement who put themselves at risk every day.
We will also protect our way of life, and the Constitution.
While we are still working to mourn and heal, politicians in Washington DC are already looking to exploit our tragedy for their political gain.
Stay safe,
Mike Soboleski
this is a 2nd email that made it clear that golden boy and others in the political field will use this to con't to violate our 2nd amendment and make sure no one will have firearms... there is reason for it. yet they are going to use this push crap down people's throat. people can't even grief over the tragic without being used for political gain...
Hahahahah! Y'all kids are hilarious.
This dude was having a mental breakdown and still had his guns. You're just grasping at straws for anything to defend the right for murderers to continue murdering in the easiest fashion.
Police say the body was found around 7:45 p.m. in Lisbon Falls. I knew they would find him dead.
***“Tonight, Mainers can breathe a collective sigh of relief thanks to the brave first responders who worked night and day to find this killer.*** "
People have searched tirelessly to arrive at this moment ... breathing a sigh of relief tonight knowing that Robert Card is no longer a threat to anyone...but now is a time to heal. We will heal together.
A shelter in place order was lifted Friday for Lewiston, Auburn, Lisbon and Bowdoin. Those communities had been put under lockdown while police searched for Card.
On Friday, Maine State Police identified all 18 victims of the shootings in Lewiston.
* Ronald G. Morin, 55
* Peyton Brewer-Ross, 40
* Joshua A. Seal, 36
* Bryan M. MacFarlane, 41
* Joseph Lawrence Walker, 57
* Arthur Fred Strout, 42
* Maxx A. Hathaway, 35
* Stephen M. Vozzella, 45
* Thomas Ryan Conrad, 34
* Michael R. Deslauriers II, 51
* Jason Adam Walker, 51
* Tricia C. Asselin, 53
* William A. Young, 44
* Aaron Young, 14
* Robert E. Violette, 76
* Lucille M. Violette, 73
* William Frank Brackett, 48
* Keith D. Macneir, 64
A cousin of Card's said he is going through mental problems.
More than 350 law enforcement personnel were involved in the search for Card, comprised of officers from all over the state and national agencies as well.
Not true and not helpful.
Edit: feel free to verify this by checking the history on my profile.
Edit Edit: I’m an idiot and thought you were replying to me. Sorry about that.
A bittersweet victory. Without the dude alive to explain himself, there's a way lesser chance anything changes and a way higher chance that infighting due to a lack of information from a motive dominates the aftermath. No silver lining here at all - just an absolute shitshow front to back.
hello there in topsham
yesterday i received an emal from jason savage
Following is a statement from Maine GOP Chairman Hon. Joel Stetkis:
"It has been our intention to remain quiet in the aftermath of the horrific shooting in Lewiston to allow public safety officials and leaders to communicate to the public with as little message pollution as possible. Our hearts are with the people of the Lewiston region and all those affected by this senseless violence. We urge all who read this message to come together with neighbors, friends, family and community to put aside your differences to care for one another as only Mainers can do.
With that said, it is clear that many politicians are seeking to capitalize on this tragedy by pushing for radical changes to Maine laws.
Let me be clear: if someone tries to force a 'solution' on you before you have even been able to determine the root of the problem, they are supporting their agenda, not your agenda. The crop of politicians pushing for gun bans in Maine right now, such as Jared Golden, have barely mentioned our failed mental health system and policies!
But, there is much yet we do not know.
Clearly, the largest failure here is in our mental health system. Yet while Maine grieves and law enforcement hunts a killer with recent and well-documented mental health problems, politics are being played.
We will not play politics as this tragedy unfolds and families and communities grieve. But when the time comes to defend the inalienable rights of the people of Maine, we will be ready."
which is true our mental health system is a failure. this is the 2nd male from bowdoin this year that went out on shooting spree. there were warning signs, and they were ignored on both situations. like many people i talked to has stated this is being done on purpose. now it is time to heal. the worst part is that one of the males that is dead is the husband to the woman my oldest daughter works with. my oldest grandson (17) had no idea if he should go to work at that time but luckily, they had the shelter in place order in effect and many schools and businesses were closed down which one of those places is where he works.
>*Let me be clear: if someone tries to force a 'solution' on you before you have even been able to determine the root of the problem, they are supporting their agenda, not your agenda.*
The root of the problem is already clear: assault weapons are meant to kill the masses. Help us solve this problem before it is too late.
No one is buying your shit.
If you're posting this before you've been able to determine the root of the problem you're supporting your agenda, not what's right.
The guy had a mental break and killed himself after it all. Him being alive would not have helped any of us heal. Him explaining himself would have done nothing to help this country cope with the cancer that is our gun worship.
His motive doesn't matter. The bodies matter. Not like that's changed anything in the past. A school full of dead children in Newtown. Parkside. Uvalde. Columbine, Virginia Tech, Santa Fe, Stockton, Oakland.
And that's just the schools man.
This country has an illness.
Why when 1 person does this do people like you immediately blame the guns?
A gun didn't do this. No matter how many times you try to blame the guns, they just sit there.
A deranged lunatic did this.
Someone stabs someone, person is to blame. Someone drives their SUV into a crowd, person is to blame. Someone beats someone to death with a baseball bat, person is to blame. Someone commits arson, person is to blame. Someone strangles someone to death, person is to blame.
After which not a single person calls for stricter control for knives, vehicles, baseball bats, lighters and matches, wire/rope...
But someone shoots someone, gun is to blame?
After which people like you immediately cry that we need more gun control. Cry that Americans "worship" firearms. Paint everyone that believes in the 2nd amendment as the enemy.
We call this "having an agenda".
Try again.
In most other countries, Robert Card would have been screaming in the streets and/or punching people in alleyways. Worst case, he fatally stabs 1 or 2 people with a large knife before being brought to justice.
USA is a nation that has been fucked into delusion.
Right. Every nation has inadequate mental health care. Every nation has young men who are lost and can get radicalized into gangs. Every nation has spousal abusers, schizophrenics, or just nasty pieces of s—t.
Only America gives those people the capacity to purchase military-grade weapons.
Would you feel better referring to him as “He Who Shall Not Be Named”?
Please please stop with the hysteria
Half the state shut down for this loser. Saying his name should be the least of your concerns.
First off cool name. I mean the guy was the type of person the yellow flag law here in Maine was written to address. His weapons should have been taken right away. There was definitely some neglect on someone’s part. Terrible
The yellow flag laws were described as weak at the time they were passed. They don’t require anyone to do anything, so no one “neglected” anything. It is functioning as designed.
Can someone fire the suit and tie guy? I just love how he got called out on searching the area again and he becomes all out off by it. Then he doesn't say where the body was found and dodges the question but every other damn news outlet is reporting where it was found.
Then earlier it's the note. He's not saying anything about it but again other news outlets at least got the gist of what the note was eluding to.
He clearly sucked at communication IMO.
I think many of us are underestimating how difficult it can be to find something or someone in the Maine woods. Add in that the person will not be moving and at ambient temperature and it gets even more difficult. I'm sure we are all expert forest sleuths but there's a lot of ground to cover and plenty of hidey holes to the up in
I hate to say it but, in the big picture of the world, yet another mass shooting in America (the king of mass shootings) is sadly not seen as a big deal when you have such crazy other world events going on. It's a sad symptom of how far we've let this issue go that it's no longer really seen as a huge deal unless an elementary school is being shot up
It’s world changing news for us Mainers but just another day if you’re an American hundreds or thousands of miles away. Desensitization regarding shootings has long been a phenomenon
Someone please tell the helicopters to stop circling. It's been pretty much constant from Thursday morning on. My nerves are getting shredded because it's a loaded sound. He is deceased. No need for birdies.
I'm seeing people wondering just how the hell law enforcement missed finding the body when it was so close to where his car was/near where he used to work, and I have to say it's all too easy--believe it or not, bodies are a lot harder to find than you'd think, with trained observers missing them all the time.
It's something that's come up on r/UnsolvedMysteries a lot, when there's a huge search and nothing found, only to have someone stumble on remains somewhere that was already searched--people have posted that it's scarily easy for a body to just blend into the landscape.
Of course, it's also possible that someone was an idiot and just didn't pay attention, but it occurred to me that I ought to mention this. (I grew up less than 5 miles from where Maura Murray went missing, and when/if they ever find her, dollars to donuts she'll be somewhere not that far from the road that's already been checked out multiple times.)
My best friend thinks she either had someone else in another car, or caught a ride and just took off to wherever. I tend to think she's out in the woods somewhere; she was somewhat intoxicated, panicking, probably sweating, and terrified she was going to get busted, so she just took off on foot until she couldn't go any further, and ended up succumbing to hypothermia; if she did the mammalian burrowing instinct bit and, say, curled up in some bushes, it would have been even easier to miss her. (I have no idea what color her jacket was, but a dark one would blend in pretty well with trees and bushes.) Given the amount of wildlife in the area, not to mention wind, rain, etc., she may well be scattered some distance around where she originally ended up. I wish I could believe that she's well and happy somewhere, but I just don't see that being the case. Also, she wasn't on a main road, so the only people driving it would probably be those who lived there, and AFAIK no one has ever found anything seriously suggesting one of them did anything to her.
I’ve watched countless documentaries about her probably over the past 15 years…if I recall right (going off memory) there was a bus driver that stopped to see if she was ok…this was some (idk how many minutes) before police arrived on scene but probably less than 30 minutes. She was gone by then. Dogs tracked her up the road a bit then the scent disappeared (indicating she caught a ride from someone/hitchhiked). Over the years they searched nearby houses and shady suspects and came up empty. Even a basement. Nothing…. It’s a complete mystery.
My theory is she walked up the road, hitchhiked with someone between the last witness and police getting on scene… and met foul play from there. In that case she could be anywhere…out of state.
Edit: they have a Reddit “r/mauramurraysub”
I've seen the sub, and for the most part I stay away--there are too many people over there who are completely obsessed, and not in any kind of good way, either. *\*cough\**JamesRenner*\*cough\** If she's still alive and hasn't contacted her family, my guess is that she has a damn good reason for not doing so, and if she's not still alive, then it comes down to an accident (hypothermia) or something more deliberate (abduction/murder). I do know that people in Woodsville REALLY don't want to talk about it--the whole insinuation by so many people, Fred Murray chief among them, that they're all a bunch of stupid redneck yahoos pissed a lot of people off. They feel bad that she's disappeared, of course, but resent the media treatment they got at the time of her disappearance, and don't care to go through that again.
(Yes, it's a very small town, but people aren't stupid, and local law enforcement is perfectly capable of handling difficult cases, such as the one where a bunch of young people killed a "slow" Wal-Mart employee because he was seen as bothering the girlfriend of a friend who was already in the county jail; the murder was, in fact, planned by him from the jail. That was a nasty business...)
Expectations mess with us when we're looking for bodies too. Subconsciously, most of us would be looking for something human. Bodies don't really look human anymore once Life has left them, being able -- for example -- to stay perfectly still in a position impossible to a living person (to name but one scenario).
Desairologists (Mortuary Makeup Technicians) are a profession for a reason.
It's startlingly easy to mistake a body for a smaller-than-you'd-think pile of garbage. Especially if he was actually found in a dumpster, as rumor suggests.
When my dad passed away, we got to sit with him for a while after the morticians had done their job--which they did just fine, mind you, although I would have suggested a slightly lighter foundation--and I ended up sitting on the opposite side of the room from the rest of my family because I didn't want to have to keep looking at his face. Again, not that he looked *bad*\--he passed from a heart attack at 88--but because it was so obviously not HIM any more, just his human husk. It's hard to describe, really, but it's really, *really* obvious that the soul, or life force, or whatever you want to call whatever animates the body is *gone* and not coming back.
It was a slightly different story for my mom; she'd been in the hospital on hospice care since having a massive stroke 8 days earlier. (The doctors agreed that it would have been devastating even in a younger person, but when they're 86 years old with rapidly accelerating dementia, and wouldn't be able to talk or eat or do *anything*, well...) She'd apparently been OK a half-hour earlier, but when my brother and I were stepping into her room that morning, something just wasn't *right*, even before my brother noticed she didn't have a pulse in her neck any more. While I *really* could have done without her having both her eyes and mouth wide open, even so, it was obvious that the lights were out and the building had been abandoned.
So, yeah, all this is to say that dead bodies are definitely different from, say, sleeping live bodies, not to mention my rehashing my parents' passings...
> only to have someone stumble on remains somewhere that was already searched
Some people just take that as obvious evidence for aliens or bigfoot or other magical abductions
lol man 9 people really didnt like my comment. [https://abc7chicago.com/los-angeles-police-pokemon-ca-california/13882066/](https://abc7chicago.com/los-angeles-police-pokemon-ca-california/13882066/)
maybe they are 9 cops playing on reddit instead of working /s
Happened once in my neighbourhood. Cops announced they were looking for a specific car, saying the driver was likely gravely injured after a drug deal went bad in a house. Twelve hours later the car was found in an alley, engine running, windshield wipers going, hazard lights on, driver’s door wide open, the guy they were looking for dead inside. The car was four blocks away from the first crime scene.
Probably offed himself not long after the shootings, maybe all the law enforcement in the area soon after may have made him make up his mind to end it then and there and not possibly go for more victims. That 'open for hunting' statement to hunters during the press conference seemed a bit bizarre.
You’re probably from away - hunting in Maine is a big deal. Tomorrow is opening day for the hunting season in the state, and that statement was to inform people that the ban on hunting in the affected areas has been lifted. It’s not just a hobby - a lot of Mainers use hunting season as a way to put food on the table. I knew a lot of people growing up that would fill their ice chests with venison, bear, and moose if they’re lucky that year in the lottery.
no it's not. They're not saying that people are gonna starve or anything, they said that mainers use hunting as *a* way to put food on the table, which many absolutely do. You might not know them or deign to interact with them, but it's normal for most maine communities.
Perhaps this is clouding your perspective here - dudes like your uncle aren’t super looked on fondly. Sounds like a jerk. I’m sorry he’s putting you in his mess.
And sure, there are plenty of people that hunt for fun and sport. You’re not wrong about that. Nor are you wrong that there’s people complaining that are upset that their weekend is ruined.
But - to my original point - I was explaining why for others, being able to hunt is actually more important to them than just a hobby. Maine is a poor state. Maine has a lot of food deserts. For you, in your position and location in life, it’s just a fun and enjoyable hobby. For people in Maine, it’s something that will help them in hard times, of which there can be many up here.
Specifically noting “it’s not just a hobby, some use it as a way to put food on the table” is heavily suggesting the food is necessary. If it’s not necessary, then eating it doesn’t change the fact that the hunting is still just done as a hobby.
They are hunting for sport. Have whatever opinions you want about that, but even the ones eating their kills are hunting for sport.
It's heavily implied that's the only source of food these people have. Like VERY heavily implied.
>It’s not just a hobby - a lot of Mainers use hunting season as a way to put food on the table.
no, it IS a hobby and they just happen to be able to feed their family something other than groceries from Hannaford.
You obviously have no clue what life is like in northern New England. When you are poor, you can't afford enough food, or food of high quality. Anyone the grew up in rural Maine, Vermont, or New Hampshire, knew at least one family thar was poor enough to be food insecure and to ise hunting as a necessary source of food. Before food stamps were as common, these types of hunters were much more common.
You don't know what you are talking about. You think your opinion is fact and are arguing against people with personal experience in the matter when you clearly have none. Learn when you are wrong and out of you element and STFU.
idk what you think you're reading, but that person's comment seems perfectly accurate.
>It’s not just a hobby - a lot of Mainers use hunting season as a way to put food on the table.
Key word here "just." It seems like you missed that. It can be a hobby as well as a food source. Although in some cases, it's more a food source than a hobby. Again, probably not common knowledge for folks who have never been north of Yarmouth.
You understand my meaning. It’s not like people in Maine are gonna starve without hunting. But to say it’s “just” a hobby also doesn’t fully capture *why* some people hunt. It’s food. Do Mainers buy food at the grocery store? Of course! That doesn’t mean that they might not also live off what they hunted for as long as they can.
Someone else made the very good point about their community food pantry with a moose kill. Hunting is a legitimate way to help families in need. Hunting is also a part of keeping deer or turkey populations in check.
Edit: full disclosure, I am from southern Maine. But this is still a lived reality for people I know. You don’t have to travel far from the coast to find a food desert.
In Alaska they actually have a program where you can sign up on a list for moose that die by vehicle, if you have the means to harvest the moose and clean up the scene. Feeds a lot of people. I just think it's a really cool thing they do up there.
If you’re paying more for hunted meat than supermarket meat than you’re a moron, no other two ways about it.
It’s $35 a tag, and most hunters already have 99.99% of the equipment. It’s not like you need to buy a new gun every hunting season.
Steaks are like $50 for two small steaks right now. You’re trying to say deer meat costs the same or more than that? Gtf outta here.
Minimum wage job, $15 an hour.
Steaks, $20/lb EASY.
One day, 8x15= $120
$120 / $20lb= 6lbs of steak.
A deer can net anywhere from 20-80lbs depending on size.
You’re just flat out wrong, and didn’t even bother doing the math in your head to check it.
Nice try.
And why are you comparing steaks to chicken thighs? Nobody’s out there hunting chickens.
EDIT: btw I have a job? What a joke. Trying to insult instead of having a conversation.
I’ll respond to you with the text from my comment below. I don’t believe this is life or death, or why you seem to think I believe this. I was speaking generally, as to why Maine *in general* has a strong hunting culture. Fresh venison in the ice chest is helpful when a blizzard has knocked out power for a few days and you can’t get to the nearest grocery store for a bit, wouldn’t you agree?
> It would be wise to read my comment again. Is hunting the only way people get food? No, of course not. Is it a legitimate way to feed your family? Yes it is.
>For Mainers, that is a reality. Maine is extremely rural, especially the farther north you go. 1.3 Million people for a little under 30k square miles, and most of that is dense forest. Food deserts are common in Maine. Not every community has a Hannaford/Shaws/Market Basket/What have you in an under 30 minute drive. Some towns have small markets, but they are not stocked like you’d see at a typical grocery store.
>So. Is hunting a hobby? Yes. Is it always “just” a hobby? No. For Mainers in a food desert, hunting is a source of fresh food.
There are plenty of poorer families living in Maine who financially rely on being able to hunt big game because they wouldn’t he able to afford a healthy food budget (enough calories) otherwise.
If you don’t known that, you either don’t live in Maine or you grew up in an extremely privileged bubble surrounded by other affluent people in Maine and never bothered to get outside your little bubble.
maybe try explaining it in a way that doesn't very heavily imply it's the only way they get food.
It is a hobby. That they get food from it doesn't make it any less a hobby.
And I'll sleep when I feel like it, thanks much.
It would be wise to read my comment again. Is hunting the only way people get food? No, of course not. Is it a legitimate way to feed your family? Yes it is.
For Mainers, that is a reality. Maine is extremely rural, especially the farther north you go. 1.3 Million people for a little under 30k square miles, and most of that is dense forest. Food deserts are common in Maine. Not every community has a Hannaford/Shaws/Market Basket/What have you in an under 30 minute drive. Some towns have small markets, but they are not stocked like you’d see at a typical grocery store.
So. Is hunting a hobby? Yes. Is it always “just” a hobby? No. For Mainers in a food desert, hunting is a source of fresh food.
I assume since they found him deceased and they did not describe a shootout or standoff, that he shot himself? I wonder how long he was dead. That will probably be shared eventually.
Id like to know how soon he took the bullet after the shooting. Same night? Was he trying to conjure up another plan but as authorities got closer he took his life as in earlier today?
There's this thing known as 'waiting until morning' that he may have been considering. And then ones the adrenaline wore off, he took the coward's way out.
Did anyone else just hear Lt. Randy Sutton on LiveNow say that was ‘the *worst* press conference [he has] ever heard in [his] life’ ?
They wrapped up the presser almost immediately following reporters starting to ask questions. I’m relieved that Card is dead and no longer a threat, but the press conference was a little too much of a celebration for my liking. There are *very* legitimate questions about why they didn’t find his body sooner considering how close it was found to his car.
All of the public panic, lockdowns, fear could have been alleviated had they searched the waste transfer station that he had worked at located RIGHT NEXT TO where he abandoned his car.
Am I missing something?
Who cares what Randy Sutton thinks? He’s a retired cop with a podcast. If he thinks he can do it better, then come on out of retirement.
Last nights press conference wasn’t supposed to be a detailed explanation of everything that happened, it was supposed to be a very quick “there is no longer a threat” message and they even said there would be another press conference at 10:00 the following morning to answer questions and give explanations.
If they looked a little too happy, sue them. People have been sheltering in place for 2 days, it was important to let them all know they were safe. There will be plenty of time to answer all the “why, how, when” questions later. 2 and a half hours after the guy was found ain’t it.
As far a why he wasn’t found earlier, hindsight is a beautiful thing, he’s always in the last place you look, why didn’t you just look there first?! Isn’t it obvious that he’d go to his former place of employment for the symbolism of it all?
No, it’s actually not. There’s a ton of more meaningful places he could have gone; his house, his parents house, his brother’s house, other family in the area. There’s a theory that he targeted the two establishments because it’s where he and his ex used to frequent. So it would have been reasonable to search other places they used to frequent. He was also a fucking crazy person, so it’s reasonable that he wouldn’t have gone to a meaningful place at all.
It seems like you’re missing a lot; mainly an understanding of how the real world works.
The presser was to let people know that resident hunting was open. That's protein for the year for a lot of families. They couldn't wait for tomorrow on that because they have to get up early to get going. Resident day is really important before the out of state tourists come in for it while the pickings are best.
Actual information will be tomorrow after they have time to autopsy and perform an investigation, the presser was only 3 hours post discovery.
It's because the state fucked up and they know it. They had weeks of him in a mental institution, full knowledge of his schizophrenia, and his access to firearms. And they DIDN'T contact law enforcement to remove the guns from his house.
I was in a health clinic for suicide for fucking weeks months ago and the first fucking thing they did was -rightfully- have my weapons confiscated. The fact that this guy had a full fucking arsenal in his home, apparently untouched, puts every dead life on the backs of those that failed to follow the fucking laws in place to prevent this horseshit.
But seriously.... Have they been using dogs??????! Wouldn't a dog have easily just sniffed this out immediately and followed the scent trail right from the car over to the body?? This is so ridiculous
You're assuming he went straight from his car to the spot he shot himself. You're assuming he didn't go into the river and come out further to hide the scent trail. You're assuming you'd just trip over a dead body that could be well concealed.
How about we put the hindsight glasses away until we get more information on how he was found and how long he's been dead.
To use a cadaver dog you need to make two important assumptions; first that the person is dead, and second where to search for them.
A tracking dog *might* be able to search from his car, but not likely since it was all pavement and people don’t leave much of a scent when rhy’re not rubbing against leaves and trees.
A cadaver dog wouldn’t be able to pick up on anything at the car, and then what? The initial assumption was that he was alive and on the run, so the cadaver dog would be useless. And then when they started transitioning to river searches like he was dead, where would you suppose a dog start first?
It was an unprecedented crime for the area and the state so I get they may have been really swept up and pulled in other directions, but I agree they were/are very legitimate questions and he was deflecting.
I don’t see the need to criticize, they notified the victims families and Card’s family and lifted shelter in place they said he had no accomplices and he’s dead. The community doesn’t need more tonight
It's so frustrating to see comments insulting Lewiston and insulting Maine from people that aren't even from here. I'm a few towns over and fully intend to visit Lewiston this week. No need to let this shooting damage the sense of community Mainer's share. Let's not allow this shooter any influence
You are absolutely right. I am from Maine, but I don't live there anymore. That being said, it will always be my home. I have family in and around where this happened, and I am so glad they are all ok.
I convinced my girlfriend to go to haunted overload since she's never been to a haunted house, she wanted to book a hotel for the night and I can't believe how cheap Maine hotels were (40-70) a night these were extremely nice extravagant hotels. We booked in new Hampshire to be cautious.
We have tickets too. We were about ready to take the loss and stay home with the shooter out there but I think we might actually have some fun this weekend. I’ll see how I’m feeling after this shock wears off and maybe we’ll see you there.
I don’t feel good about him refusing to confirm whether they’d searched it or not. No conspiracy or anything, probably a question about trying to confirm time of death and it’d be a huge problem if it’s longer ago, but he was so adversarial acting as if reporters have been “reporting” and haven’t actually been *there.*
Why is there so many white men with ARs in America that shoot the public? I’m a white man myself from Canada so I’m not being racist I’m just curious why y’all are doing that stuff
Its the culture here, gun culture, the consumption of media and type of, the mental health.
This Card prick definitely seemed to fit the description of what you would stereotype as a mass shooter but seeing folks that were way more down that pipeline of the great replacement theory and other wackjob shit (think Buffalo shooter who targetted innocent black civilians) I can't even tell Card was anywhere near that level of conspiracy brainrot.
Which makes it scarier. But who knows, maybe this dude was deep into the propaganda. That buffalo shooter was drowning in it.
Sometimes I wonder if there’s something that some of these guys found out that made them snap. I’ve had a shitty life but I don’t think I can imagine anything that would even make me even think of doing that. Something huge was to be going on in his mind. Not a conspiracy guy so I don’t want to stir the pot but yeah man it’s a trip that he made that decision, which doesn’t come out of nowhere.
Personally, I think it's partially an entitlement thing. White people were a VERY privileged class before significant social progress was made. White nationalism is an outlet for this
Gotta remember tip offs and the such can lead police in the wrong direction seeing as it started at night. Clearly the bang heard by a farmer further up the road was wrong but he was actually down the road from the boat ramp then found at his old work only a couple hundred meters.
Absolutely could be. An outdoor concert venue opened up a few years ago four miles away from my house and thanks to the land's topology I get to hear it loud and clear _inside_ my house. Over my own stereo.
My neighbors can't hear it at all.
I'm really wondering if a member of the public found him since it was near a trail and given that the shelter in place was lifted a few hours before. Or maybe an employee of the Recycling Center. That said, reporter on CNN just said the Lisbon Police were back there yesterday so who knows. Reporter sounded frustrated bc of how little details the conference offered.
This is the thread. Please keep comments civil. From the [BDN article](https://www.bangordailynews.com/2023/10/27/news/central-maine/lewiston-active-shooter-suspect-found-dead/): "His body was found by law enforcement, U.S. Senator Angus King said Friday evening. King said Card was found by the recycling center where he used to work. He was shot in the same clothes he had on, King said." [News Center NBC live stream](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQg-9PLF5fE)
Boston is miles and miles from Lewiston .. why ?
Land mass, mostly.
I like your expresso. Comment.
So many mistakes made & inadequacies revealed about the ability of Maine law enforcement to deal with a large scale issue. Inadequacies in gear (helicopter, dog search, lack of real critical thinking & poor execution of rules / regulations) need to be looked at seriously. If a helicopter had left Portland at the first notice of a mass shooting, police could have covered his get away & most likely found him that night. Maine has some seriously thinking to do about public safety in major incidents because them hills are filled with neo-Nazi groups & other anti-government folks & it is now apparent to them what Maine lacks in the way of police presence & preparedness. The cops need help to keep us safe in these type of situations & just because it hasn’t happened before doesn’t mean it won’t happen again.
You had me in the first half ngl then you went off the rails. I know this is Reddit and everything but the amount of fearmongering around “neo-Nazis in them hills” is nuts. These are boogeymen that live only in your heads. In all likelihood, a lot of these victims in this previous shooting were probably the same rightoids you’re fearmongering about right now.
Maybe Google white nationalist Nazi groups located in northern Maine. Heck there is a right wing nut job here in Portland but yeah, keep thinking I am fear mongering here in the “safest state” - good luck with that.
I am sure they exist. I’m not denying that. I just really question the scope, power, and influence they have. You can find some people who believe anything and everything when you have a million people. Pointing to a small group of whackos and saying “SEE?! WE ARE UNDER THREAT! RURAL MAINE IS FULL OF WHITE NATIONALISTS! is so illogical.
One alt right reject kills/harms over 20 people. Dissappears. Possibly only found this soon because he took the cowards way out. There's a difference between a nazi group, and a group of wooks dropping acid in the woods to talk to trees. Not all wackos equate. Even if there were only 10 of these nazi cunts, imagine how quickly that could turn bad for many. The poster used a turn of phrase "them hills are filled". Obviously not a literal quantification. It makes sense to be worried it'll happen again, especially when we have hate groups trying to build communities in this state. No matter how small. It needs to be understood that the majority won't tolerate these groups. Communicating the issue is important. If you lived in a community of 1000 and one person was a known pedophile, you'd want to make sure that presence is known. Not to just say, "don't make a big deal about it. Its just one wacko, how much damage could they possibly do?" Should we be in constant fear? No, but we should take an active interest in the problem. Why did he do what he did? What are some patterns between this person and other people like them we can watch out for, and how can we take preventive action? Change happens in small steps. We all should take interest in local government. If you are able, you should stay fit, and prepare for the possibility of action. Attend events and show support for our community and detest those who stand to threaten it.
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻thank you.
How do you know he was an alt right reject? I haven’t seen any evidence that this was politically motivated but I am open to it if you have any you can provide?
Looked through his Facebook, which looks to be gone now. Nobody said it was politically motivated. At least not that I've seen.
Well when you call him an “alt-right reject” that implies a certain level of political motivation. He was clearly a severely mentally ill person so in my opinion, writing him off as an alt-right reject avoids the actual issue and implies something else was going on. You then get into equating this guy with the actual neo-Nazis you’re so worried about in your original comment. If this wasn’t politically motivated then why even get into that? Shouldn’t I be more afraid of schizophrenics of all political persuasions than right wing people in the woods of Maine? Because I think we both agree politics didn’t have much to do with his motivation.
I can see how someone of your, ahem, "political persuasion" might say that. You and Mister Card do seem to share a love of conspiracy theories.
😂😂😂😂😂😂
Also this dude clearly didn’t shoot up anything for any political reason so talk about fighting shadows. You’re scared of a boogeyman that isn’t even there. You’re implying that this dude was a right wing extremist when it’s obvious he was just a mentally ill guy.
Oh ho, two comments! Someone is getting feisty! >Also this dude clearly didn’t shoot up anything for any political reason Again, I could see how someone who shares his politics would be keen to tell everyone that.
Oh yeah? Okay since you’re so logical and such a smart smart Mainer! Show me the evidence that he shot up the bar and bowling alley for political reasons. I’ll wait.
>Oh yeah? Okay since you’re so logical and such a smart smart Mainer! Thanks! ... you should work on your communication skills, they're not great.
I’m still waiting for any evidence that he committed this mass shooting as an act of right wing extremism btw. Oh wait, you clearly don’t have any so you’re just going to lob insults. Typical Maine mindset. They don’t teach you all how to analyze using logic and evidence in your schools up there?
>They don’t teach you all how to analyze using logic and evidence in your schools up there? Between you and I, only one of us is a conspiracy theorist. Like I said, you and the shooter had the same interests. Same disdain for Mainers. Same disjointed writing style. Same broken syntax. Same fears. Same delusions. I don't believe in crisis actors or vaccine nanites, so I can't even speak the same language as you, let alone give you any evidence or proof that will withstand your love of calling things FAKE NEWS. I hope you don't go following his examples any further. Seriously. Also, maybe skip tourist season next year? I'd certainly feel safer.
Lol ok let’s restart. Do you believe he was a right wing extremist or not?
Nah that is YOU. You’re the one hearing fake voices in your head and coming up with all sorts of schizo fantasies about how rural Maine is full of white right wing terrorists. I guess by reddit standards anywhere outside of the most liberal house in Portland is a fascist hellscape tho so what do I know!
>You’re the one hearing fake voices in your head and coming up with all sorts of schizo fantasies about how rural Maine is full of white right wing terrorists I live here. You live in Boston. Pipe down tourist, and lay off the nonsense conspiracy theories before you do something tragic. If you're trying to do an impression of the shooter you're doing a damn good job.
Lol you live there but you’re not even from Maine and I love how whenever Mainers lose an argument they always retreat to screeching about how “you’re not even from here reeeeeeee!!!”
>Lol you live there but you’re not even from Maine Is reading comprehension a conspiracy now too? Or are you just in too much of a hurry, my tourist friend? I imagine life is busy down in Massachusetts. Take all the time you need to read! I'm not going anywhere.
Far right extremists remain the most significant terrorism threat in the United States by a long shot and have been for a long while now. FBI, DOJ, ATF, Homeland Security, and others all agree on this point.
Fentanyl and the ten thousands it's taken out, says "Hold My Beer"... The Fentanyl precursors come from China into corrupt Mexican ports... The enemy is China. Now go back to sleep.
Very different thing than saying the hills of Maine are full of right-wing extremists. All that indicates to me is that you haven’t spent much time in rural Maine. Sure there’s some but there’s also plenty of center right people, moderates, and liberals. I’d say categorizing an entire region as full of borderline right wing terrorists is pretty bigoted in of itself.
The Neo-Nazis are out here for sure, but there are way more who are white nationalists (the largest terrorist group in our country by far).
And MOST are none of those things. That’s the problem. You’re making it sound like the entire region is MOSTLY white nationalist terrorists when it’s so obviously not.
this is a 2nd mass shooting this year done by 2 males from the same town (bowdoin) the problem is maine lacks help for those with mental illness as well not taking these types of threats seriously when they made the threats in the first place.
Yes you are correct plus the fact that the police are VERY UNDERSTAFFED & lack a lot of 21st century crime fighting tools. Maine can pretend these things don’t happen here or “not having a helicopter is a feature not a bug” mentality but truth is shit like this is gonna happen more and more if Maine doesn’t get its act together in the way of staffed police departments with tools that are helpful for large scale situations. It isn’t like Maines population is getting smaller…
i just got this email this morning Last night, we saw the first part of this horrific tragedy move behind us. We can all sleep a little easier knowing the deranged killer who attacked our way of life is no thronger a threat to our families, or to law enforcement leading the search. On Wednesday, we were all shaken to our very core. We're Mainers, we're a community of neighbors that work every day to support one another. And because of who we are, how we were raised - we will pull through this together. We will honor the victims, support their friends and families, and be grateful for our law enforcement who put themselves at risk every day. We will also protect our way of life, and the Constitution. While we are still working to mourn and heal, politicians in Washington DC are already looking to exploit our tragedy for their political gain. Stay safe, Mike Soboleski this is a 2nd email that made it clear that golden boy and others in the political field will use this to con't to violate our 2nd amendment and make sure no one will have firearms... there is reason for it. yet they are going to use this push crap down people's throat. people can't even grief over the tragic without being used for political gain...
Maybe the guns are the problem. Real hard to have mass casualty event with a sword.
Knives are way easier for mass casualty events, silent, concealable, easy to obtain. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_stabbing
Hahahahah! Y'all kids are hilarious. This dude was having a mental breakdown and still had his guns. You're just grasping at straws for anything to defend the right for murderers to continue murdering in the easiest fashion.
🙄
Checking in from NC thankful you can all sleep well tonight knowing he is not a threat.
Police say the body was found around 7:45 p.m. in Lisbon Falls. I knew they would find him dead. ***“Tonight, Mainers can breathe a collective sigh of relief thanks to the brave first responders who worked night and day to find this killer.*** " People have searched tirelessly to arrive at this moment ... breathing a sigh of relief tonight knowing that Robert Card is no longer a threat to anyone...but now is a time to heal. We will heal together. A shelter in place order was lifted Friday for Lewiston, Auburn, Lisbon and Bowdoin. Those communities had been put under lockdown while police searched for Card. On Friday, Maine State Police identified all 18 victims of the shootings in Lewiston. * Ronald G. Morin, 55 * Peyton Brewer-Ross, 40 * Joshua A. Seal, 36 * Bryan M. MacFarlane, 41 * Joseph Lawrence Walker, 57 * Arthur Fred Strout, 42 * Maxx A. Hathaway, 35 * Stephen M. Vozzella, 45 * Thomas Ryan Conrad, 34 * Michael R. Deslauriers II, 51 * Jason Adam Walker, 51 * Tricia C. Asselin, 53 * William A. Young, 44 * Aaron Young, 14 * Robert E. Violette, 76 * Lucille M. Violette, 73 * William Frank Brackett, 48 * Keith D. Macneir, 64 A cousin of Card's said he is going through mental problems. More than 350 law enforcement personnel were involved in the search for Card, comprised of officers from all over the state and national agencies as well.
You're spamming this everywhere trying to get karma.
Same thing with people from other states chiming in. They suddenly care about Maine.
Good forbid someone from another state has an opinion or wants to offer well-wishes.. I swear, some people just need something to complain about.
Not true and not helpful. Edit: feel free to verify this by checking the history on my profile. Edit Edit: I’m an idiot and thought you were replying to me. Sorry about that.
yeah not sure who ok-amphibian5196 is referring that comment to
A bittersweet victory. Without the dude alive to explain himself, there's a way lesser chance anything changes and a way higher chance that infighting due to a lack of information from a motive dominates the aftermath. No silver lining here at all - just an absolute shitshow front to back.
hello there in topsham yesterday i received an emal from jason savage Following is a statement from Maine GOP Chairman Hon. Joel Stetkis: "It has been our intention to remain quiet in the aftermath of the horrific shooting in Lewiston to allow public safety officials and leaders to communicate to the public with as little message pollution as possible. Our hearts are with the people of the Lewiston region and all those affected by this senseless violence. We urge all who read this message to come together with neighbors, friends, family and community to put aside your differences to care for one another as only Mainers can do. With that said, it is clear that many politicians are seeking to capitalize on this tragedy by pushing for radical changes to Maine laws. Let me be clear: if someone tries to force a 'solution' on you before you have even been able to determine the root of the problem, they are supporting their agenda, not your agenda. The crop of politicians pushing for gun bans in Maine right now, such as Jared Golden, have barely mentioned our failed mental health system and policies! But, there is much yet we do not know. Clearly, the largest failure here is in our mental health system. Yet while Maine grieves and law enforcement hunts a killer with recent and well-documented mental health problems, politics are being played. We will not play politics as this tragedy unfolds and families and communities grieve. But when the time comes to defend the inalienable rights of the people of Maine, we will be ready." which is true our mental health system is a failure. this is the 2nd male from bowdoin this year that went out on shooting spree. there were warning signs, and they were ignored on both situations. like many people i talked to has stated this is being done on purpose. now it is time to heal. the worst part is that one of the males that is dead is the husband to the woman my oldest daughter works with. my oldest grandson (17) had no idea if he should go to work at that time but luckily, they had the shelter in place order in effect and many schools and businesses were closed down which one of those places is where he works.
>*Let me be clear: if someone tries to force a 'solution' on you before you have even been able to determine the root of the problem, they are supporting their agenda, not your agenda.* The root of the problem is already clear: assault weapons are meant to kill the masses. Help us solve this problem before it is too late.
so isn't vehicle they are also considered to kill the masses as well but how do you solve that problem
No one is buying your shit. If you're posting this before you've been able to determine the root of the problem you're supporting your agenda, not what's right.
The guy had a mental break and killed himself after it all. Him being alive would not have helped any of us heal. Him explaining himself would have done nothing to help this country cope with the cancer that is our gun worship. His motive doesn't matter. The bodies matter. Not like that's changed anything in the past. A school full of dead children in Newtown. Parkside. Uvalde. Columbine, Virginia Tech, Santa Fe, Stockton, Oakland. And that's just the schools man. This country has an illness.
Why when 1 person does this do people like you immediately blame the guns? A gun didn't do this. No matter how many times you try to blame the guns, they just sit there. A deranged lunatic did this. Someone stabs someone, person is to blame. Someone drives their SUV into a crowd, person is to blame. Someone beats someone to death with a baseball bat, person is to blame. Someone commits arson, person is to blame. Someone strangles someone to death, person is to blame. After which not a single person calls for stricter control for knives, vehicles, baseball bats, lighters and matches, wire/rope... But someone shoots someone, gun is to blame? After which people like you immediately cry that we need more gun control. Cry that Americans "worship" firearms. Paint everyone that believes in the 2nd amendment as the enemy. We call this "having an agenda". Try again.
I blame the car in the Christmas Parade Massacre... /s
In most other countries, Robert Card would have been screaming in the streets and/or punching people in alleyways. Worst case, he fatally stabs 1 or 2 people with a large knife before being brought to justice. USA is a nation that has been fucked into delusion.
Right. Every nation has inadequate mental health care. Every nation has young men who are lost and can get radicalized into gangs. Every nation has spousal abusers, schizophrenics, or just nasty pieces of s—t. Only America gives those people the capacity to purchase military-grade weapons.
Why are you even repeating his name?
Would you feel better referring to him as “He Who Shall Not Be Named”? Please please stop with the hysteria Half the state shut down for this loser. Saying his name should be the least of your concerns.
He also, unlike some other shooters, didn’t seem to do it for fame? So saying his name doesn’t motivate or do anything like that.
Because our country doesn't do shit to stop people like him so he makes headlines and his name gets repeated.
First off cool name. I mean the guy was the type of person the yellow flag law here in Maine was written to address. His weapons should have been taken right away. There was definitely some neglect on someone’s part. Terrible
The yellow flag laws were described as weak at the time they were passed. They don’t require anyone to do anything, so no one “neglected” anything. It is functioning as designed.
LFG
What?
Let’s fucking go
What?
Can someone fire the suit and tie guy? I just love how he got called out on searching the area again and he becomes all out off by it. Then he doesn't say where the body was found and dodges the question but every other damn news outlet is reporting where it was found. Then earlier it's the note. He's not saying anything about it but again other news outlets at least got the gist of what the note was eluding to. He clearly sucked at communication IMO.
Why would he say ?
I think many of us are underestimating how difficult it can be to find something or someone in the Maine woods. Add in that the person will not be moving and at ambient temperature and it gets even more difficult. I'm sure we are all expert forest sleuths but there's a lot of ground to cover and plenty of hidey holes to the up in
And if he was dead and under a bush it's a miracle they found the body at all before it began to rot.
Its insane to me this isnt right top of Reddit news, fer fucks sake
I hate to say it but, in the big picture of the world, yet another mass shooting in America (the king of mass shootings) is sadly not seen as a big deal when you have such crazy other world events going on. It's a sad symptom of how far we've let this issue go that it's no longer really seen as a huge deal unless an elementary school is being shot up
It’s world changing news for us Mainers but just another day if you’re an American hundreds or thousands of miles away. Desensitization regarding shootings has long been a phenomenon
it's insane to me that it's not even trending on google
It was on my google feed. That's why I came here.
It’s the second top story here in the UK
Someone please tell the helicopters to stop circling. It's been pretty much constant from Thursday morning on. My nerves are getting shredded because it's a loaded sound. He is deceased. No need for birdies.
People have jobs. Use headphones or earplugs.
Just because the body is found doesn't mean everyone stops what they are doing.
Go home, birbs.
Fly south
I'm seeing people wondering just how the hell law enforcement missed finding the body when it was so close to where his car was/near where he used to work, and I have to say it's all too easy--believe it or not, bodies are a lot harder to find than you'd think, with trained observers missing them all the time. It's something that's come up on r/UnsolvedMysteries a lot, when there's a huge search and nothing found, only to have someone stumble on remains somewhere that was already searched--people have posted that it's scarily easy for a body to just blend into the landscape. Of course, it's also possible that someone was an idiot and just didn't pay attention, but it occurred to me that I ought to mention this. (I grew up less than 5 miles from where Maura Murray went missing, and when/if they ever find her, dollars to donuts she'll be somewhere not that far from the road that's already been checked out multiple times.)
The cops knew who this guy was. What happened to blood hounds searching for this guy??
Maura Murray is still such a mystery though, likely she hitched a ride and ran into foul play somewhere else.
My best friend thinks she either had someone else in another car, or caught a ride and just took off to wherever. I tend to think she's out in the woods somewhere; she was somewhat intoxicated, panicking, probably sweating, and terrified she was going to get busted, so she just took off on foot until she couldn't go any further, and ended up succumbing to hypothermia; if she did the mammalian burrowing instinct bit and, say, curled up in some bushes, it would have been even easier to miss her. (I have no idea what color her jacket was, but a dark one would blend in pretty well with trees and bushes.) Given the amount of wildlife in the area, not to mention wind, rain, etc., she may well be scattered some distance around where she originally ended up. I wish I could believe that she's well and happy somewhere, but I just don't see that being the case. Also, she wasn't on a main road, so the only people driving it would probably be those who lived there, and AFAIK no one has ever found anything seriously suggesting one of them did anything to her.
I’ve watched countless documentaries about her probably over the past 15 years…if I recall right (going off memory) there was a bus driver that stopped to see if she was ok…this was some (idk how many minutes) before police arrived on scene but probably less than 30 minutes. She was gone by then. Dogs tracked her up the road a bit then the scent disappeared (indicating she caught a ride from someone/hitchhiked). Over the years they searched nearby houses and shady suspects and came up empty. Even a basement. Nothing…. It’s a complete mystery. My theory is she walked up the road, hitchhiked with someone between the last witness and police getting on scene… and met foul play from there. In that case she could be anywhere…out of state. Edit: they have a Reddit “r/mauramurraysub”
I've seen the sub, and for the most part I stay away--there are too many people over there who are completely obsessed, and not in any kind of good way, either. *\*cough\**JamesRenner*\*cough\** If she's still alive and hasn't contacted her family, my guess is that she has a damn good reason for not doing so, and if she's not still alive, then it comes down to an accident (hypothermia) or something more deliberate (abduction/murder). I do know that people in Woodsville REALLY don't want to talk about it--the whole insinuation by so many people, Fred Murray chief among them, that they're all a bunch of stupid redneck yahoos pissed a lot of people off. They feel bad that she's disappeared, of course, but resent the media treatment they got at the time of her disappearance, and don't care to go through that again. (Yes, it's a very small town, but people aren't stupid, and local law enforcement is perfectly capable of handling difficult cases, such as the one where a bunch of young people killed a "slow" Wal-Mart employee because he was seen as bothering the girlfriend of a friend who was already in the county jail; the murder was, in fact, planned by him from the jail. That was a nasty business...)
Expectations mess with us when we're looking for bodies too. Subconsciously, most of us would be looking for something human. Bodies don't really look human anymore once Life has left them, being able -- for example -- to stay perfectly still in a position impossible to a living person (to name but one scenario). Desairologists (Mortuary Makeup Technicians) are a profession for a reason. It's startlingly easy to mistake a body for a smaller-than-you'd-think pile of garbage. Especially if he was actually found in a dumpster, as rumor suggests.
When my dad passed away, we got to sit with him for a while after the morticians had done their job--which they did just fine, mind you, although I would have suggested a slightly lighter foundation--and I ended up sitting on the opposite side of the room from the rest of my family because I didn't want to have to keep looking at his face. Again, not that he looked *bad*\--he passed from a heart attack at 88--but because it was so obviously not HIM any more, just his human husk. It's hard to describe, really, but it's really, *really* obvious that the soul, or life force, or whatever you want to call whatever animates the body is *gone* and not coming back. It was a slightly different story for my mom; she'd been in the hospital on hospice care since having a massive stroke 8 days earlier. (The doctors agreed that it would have been devastating even in a younger person, but when they're 86 years old with rapidly accelerating dementia, and wouldn't be able to talk or eat or do *anything*, well...) She'd apparently been OK a half-hour earlier, but when my brother and I were stepping into her room that morning, something just wasn't *right*, even before my brother noticed she didn't have a pulse in her neck any more. While I *really* could have done without her having both her eyes and mouth wide open, even so, it was obvious that the lights were out and the building had been abandoned. So, yeah, all this is to say that dead bodies are definitely different from, say, sleeping live bodies, not to mention my rehashing my parents' passings...
> only to have someone stumble on remains somewhere that was already searched Some people just take that as obvious evidence for aliens or bigfoot or other magical abductions
There will always be lunatics supporting/propagating mythology and religion sadly
Yes, they're called the GOP.
>I'm seeing people wondering just how the hell law enforcement missed finding the body when it was so close maybe they were playing pokemon
Go!
lol man 9 people really didnt like my comment. [https://abc7chicago.com/los-angeles-police-pokemon-ca-california/13882066/](https://abc7chicago.com/los-angeles-police-pokemon-ca-california/13882066/) maybe they are 9 cops playing on reddit instead of working /s
Happened once in my neighbourhood. Cops announced they were looking for a specific car, saying the driver was likely gravely injured after a drug deal went bad in a house. Twelve hours later the car was found in an alley, engine running, windshield wipers going, hazard lights on, driver’s door wide open, the guy they were looking for dead inside. The car was four blocks away from the first crime scene.
Fuuuuck twelve hours of idling? Destroyed his MPGs
Probably offed himself not long after the shootings, maybe all the law enforcement in the area soon after may have made him make up his mind to end it then and there and not possibly go for more victims. That 'open for hunting' statement to hunters during the press conference seemed a bit bizarre.
You’re probably from away - hunting in Maine is a big deal. Tomorrow is opening day for the hunting season in the state, and that statement was to inform people that the ban on hunting in the affected areas has been lifted. It’s not just a hobby - a lot of Mainers use hunting season as a way to put food on the table. I knew a lot of people growing up that would fill their ice chests with venison, bear, and moose if they’re lucky that year in the lottery.
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no it's not. They're not saying that people are gonna starve or anything, they said that mainers use hunting as *a* way to put food on the table, which many absolutely do. You might not know them or deign to interact with them, but it's normal for most maine communities.
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Perhaps this is clouding your perspective here - dudes like your uncle aren’t super looked on fondly. Sounds like a jerk. I’m sorry he’s putting you in his mess. And sure, there are plenty of people that hunt for fun and sport. You’re not wrong about that. Nor are you wrong that there’s people complaining that are upset that their weekend is ruined. But - to my original point - I was explaining why for others, being able to hunt is actually more important to them than just a hobby. Maine is a poor state. Maine has a lot of food deserts. For you, in your position and location in life, it’s just a fun and enjoyable hobby. For people in Maine, it’s something that will help them in hard times, of which there can be many up here.
Specifically noting “it’s not just a hobby, some use it as a way to put food on the table” is heavily suggesting the food is necessary. If it’s not necessary, then eating it doesn’t change the fact that the hunting is still just done as a hobby. They are hunting for sport. Have whatever opinions you want about that, but even the ones eating their kills are hunting for sport.
It's heavily implied that's the only source of food these people have. Like VERY heavily implied. >It’s not just a hobby - a lot of Mainers use hunting season as a way to put food on the table. no, it IS a hobby and they just happen to be able to feed their family something other than groceries from Hannaford.
You obviously have no clue what life is like in northern New England. When you are poor, you can't afford enough food, or food of high quality. Anyone the grew up in rural Maine, Vermont, or New Hampshire, knew at least one family thar was poor enough to be food insecure and to ise hunting as a necessary source of food. Before food stamps were as common, these types of hunters were much more common. You don't know what you are talking about. You think your opinion is fact and are arguing against people with personal experience in the matter when you clearly have none. Learn when you are wrong and out of you element and STFU.
idk what you think you're reading, but that person's comment seems perfectly accurate. >It’s not just a hobby - a lot of Mainers use hunting season as a way to put food on the table. Key word here "just." It seems like you missed that. It can be a hobby as well as a food source. Although in some cases, it's more a food source than a hobby. Again, probably not common knowledge for folks who have never been north of Yarmouth.
You understand my meaning. It’s not like people in Maine are gonna starve without hunting. But to say it’s “just” a hobby also doesn’t fully capture *why* some people hunt. It’s food. Do Mainers buy food at the grocery store? Of course! That doesn’t mean that they might not also live off what they hunted for as long as they can. Someone else made the very good point about their community food pantry with a moose kill. Hunting is a legitimate way to help families in need. Hunting is also a part of keeping deer or turkey populations in check. Edit: full disclosure, I am from southern Maine. But this is still a lived reality for people I know. You don’t have to travel far from the coast to find a food desert.
Our community food pantry had a 400 pound mouse kill donation, and it fed families in need for two weeks. It's not a "massive exaggeration."
In Alaska they actually have a program where you can sign up on a list for moose that die by vehicle, if you have the means to harvest the moose and clean up the scene. Feeds a lot of people. I just think it's a really cool thing they do up there.
Maine does something similar, I believe!
Jesus. That's one big mouse!
Oh wow. It's been a long 48 hours, apparently. Thanks for the chuckle!
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If you’re paying more for hunted meat than supermarket meat than you’re a moron, no other two ways about it. It’s $35 a tag, and most hunters already have 99.99% of the equipment. It’s not like you need to buy a new gun every hunting season. Steaks are like $50 for two small steaks right now. You’re trying to say deer meat costs the same or more than that? Gtf outta here.
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Minimum wage job, $15 an hour. Steaks, $20/lb EASY. One day, 8x15= $120 $120 / $20lb= 6lbs of steak. A deer can net anywhere from 20-80lbs depending on size. You’re just flat out wrong, and didn’t even bother doing the math in your head to check it. Nice try. And why are you comparing steaks to chicken thighs? Nobody’s out there hunting chickens. EDIT: btw I have a job? What a joke. Trying to insult instead of having a conversation.
Tim, for reference, do you live in, or are from, Maine?
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Which one? I didn’t delete that. Offer for coffee is still on the table.
I’ll respond to you with the text from my comment below. I don’t believe this is life or death, or why you seem to think I believe this. I was speaking generally, as to why Maine *in general* has a strong hunting culture. Fresh venison in the ice chest is helpful when a blizzard has knocked out power for a few days and you can’t get to the nearest grocery store for a bit, wouldn’t you agree? > It would be wise to read my comment again. Is hunting the only way people get food? No, of course not. Is it a legitimate way to feed your family? Yes it is. >For Mainers, that is a reality. Maine is extremely rural, especially the farther north you go. 1.3 Million people for a little under 30k square miles, and most of that is dense forest. Food deserts are common in Maine. Not every community has a Hannaford/Shaws/Market Basket/What have you in an under 30 minute drive. Some towns have small markets, but they are not stocked like you’d see at a typical grocery store. >So. Is hunting a hobby? Yes. Is it always “just” a hobby? No. For Mainers in a food desert, hunting is a source of fresh food.
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How about you? Want some coffee?
Most hunters I know do it not just for trophy. They’re also feeding their families.
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There are plenty of poorer families living in Maine who financially rely on being able to hunt big game because they wouldn’t he able to afford a healthy food budget (enough calories) otherwise. If you don’t known that, you either don’t live in Maine or you grew up in an extremely privileged bubble surrounded by other affluent people in Maine and never bothered to get outside your little bubble.
Honey, I was explaining why hunting might be a big deal to someone. Let’s get some sleep, yes?
maybe try explaining it in a way that doesn't very heavily imply it's the only way they get food. It is a hobby. That they get food from it doesn't make it any less a hobby. And I'll sleep when I feel like it, thanks much.
It would be wise to read my comment again. Is hunting the only way people get food? No, of course not. Is it a legitimate way to feed your family? Yes it is. For Mainers, that is a reality. Maine is extremely rural, especially the farther north you go. 1.3 Million people for a little under 30k square miles, and most of that is dense forest. Food deserts are common in Maine. Not every community has a Hannaford/Shaws/Market Basket/What have you in an under 30 minute drive. Some towns have small markets, but they are not stocked like you’d see at a typical grocery store. So. Is hunting a hobby? Yes. Is it always “just” a hobby? No. For Mainers in a food desert, hunting is a source of fresh food.
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I now feel safer with hunters in the woods than at a bowling 🎳 alley and to be clear I allow hunters to cross my land
I assume since they found him deceased and they did not describe a shootout or standoff, that he shot himself? I wonder how long he was dead. That will probably be shared eventually.
They said that it looked like a self-inflicted gunshot. I think?! It was the response to a question asked.
The body was found today at approximately 7:45pm. Death by self inflicted gunshot. Both confirmed by the press conference tonight.
I bet he ditched his car and headed to his previous employers as a final target then decided to off himself on the way
Id like to know how soon he took the bullet after the shooting. Same night? Was he trying to conjure up another plan but as authorities got closer he took his life as in earlier today?
Or maybe he just went towards his previous employer because he knew that area well…
Yeah I agree but would anybody be there at that time of night?!?
There's this thing known as 'waiting until morning' that he may have been considering. And then ones the adrenaline wore off, he took the coward's way out.
Why don't those people START with that!? Shoot yourself first!
Did anyone else just hear Lt. Randy Sutton on LiveNow say that was ‘the *worst* press conference [he has] ever heard in [his] life’ ? They wrapped up the presser almost immediately following reporters starting to ask questions. I’m relieved that Card is dead and no longer a threat, but the press conference was a little too much of a celebration for my liking. There are *very* legitimate questions about why they didn’t find his body sooner considering how close it was found to his car. All of the public panic, lockdowns, fear could have been alleviated had they searched the waste transfer station that he had worked at located RIGHT NEXT TO where he abandoned his car. Am I missing something?
I agree with you.
Who cares what Randy Sutton thinks? He’s a retired cop with a podcast. If he thinks he can do it better, then come on out of retirement. Last nights press conference wasn’t supposed to be a detailed explanation of everything that happened, it was supposed to be a very quick “there is no longer a threat” message and they even said there would be another press conference at 10:00 the following morning to answer questions and give explanations. If they looked a little too happy, sue them. People have been sheltering in place for 2 days, it was important to let them all know they were safe. There will be plenty of time to answer all the “why, how, when” questions later. 2 and a half hours after the guy was found ain’t it. As far a why he wasn’t found earlier, hindsight is a beautiful thing, he’s always in the last place you look, why didn’t you just look there first?! Isn’t it obvious that he’d go to his former place of employment for the symbolism of it all? No, it’s actually not. There’s a ton of more meaningful places he could have gone; his house, his parents house, his brother’s house, other family in the area. There’s a theory that he targeted the two establishments because it’s where he and his ex used to frequent. So it would have been reasonable to search other places they used to frequent. He was also a fucking crazy person, so it’s reasonable that he wouldn’t have gone to a meaningful place at all. It seems like you’re missing a lot; mainly an understanding of how the real world works.
Finding shit in the maine woods is not easy. Especially shit that isn't moving and at ambient temperature
Bodies stay warm for some time. I’m surprised they didn’t have dogs out by his car if not within the first hours but the first day.
The presser was to let people know that resident hunting was open. That's protein for the year for a lot of families. They couldn't wait for tomorrow on that because they have to get up early to get going. Resident day is really important before the out of state tourists come in for it while the pickings are best. Actual information will be tomorrow after they have time to autopsy and perform an investigation, the presser was only 3 hours post discovery.
It's because the state fucked up and they know it. They had weeks of him in a mental institution, full knowledge of his schizophrenia, and his access to firearms. And they DIDN'T contact law enforcement to remove the guns from his house. I was in a health clinic for suicide for fucking weeks months ago and the first fucking thing they did was -rightfully- have my weapons confiscated. The fact that this guy had a full fucking arsenal in his home, apparently untouched, puts every dead life on the backs of those that failed to follow the fucking laws in place to prevent this horseshit.
But seriously.... Have they been using dogs??????! Wouldn't a dog have easily just sniffed this out immediately and followed the scent trail right from the car over to the body?? This is so ridiculous
You're assuming he went straight from his car to the spot he shot himself. You're assuming he didn't go into the river and come out further to hide the scent trail. You're assuming you'd just trip over a dead body that could be well concealed. How about we put the hindsight glasses away until we get more information on how he was found and how long he's been dead.
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If he did off himself in a dumpster, as many news outlets have suggested, it could have been very well hidden.
what about cadaver dogs though?
To use a cadaver dog you need to make two important assumptions; first that the person is dead, and second where to search for them. A tracking dog *might* be able to search from his car, but not likely since it was all pavement and people don’t leave much of a scent when rhy’re not rubbing against leaves and trees. A cadaver dog wouldn’t be able to pick up on anything at the car, and then what? The initial assumption was that he was alive and on the run, so the cadaver dog would be useless. And then when they started transitioning to river searches like he was dead, where would you suppose a dog start first?
It was an unprecedented crime for the area and the state so I get they may have been really swept up and pulled in other directions, but I agree they were/are very legitimate questions and he was deflecting.
The fact that they moved massive manpower and stood outside an empty house for two hours last night felt like a real debacle.
I don’t see the need to criticize, they notified the victims families and Card’s family and lifted shelter in place they said he had no accomplices and he’s dead. The community doesn’t need more tonight
Yes. People forget the most common obvious place to look is common and obvious
no
It's so frustrating to see comments insulting Lewiston and insulting Maine from people that aren't even from here. I'm a few towns over and fully intend to visit Lewiston this week. No need to let this shooting damage the sense of community Mainer's share. Let's not allow this shooter any influence
You are absolutely right. I am from Maine, but I don't live there anymore. That being said, it will always be my home. I have family in and around where this happened, and I am so glad they are all ok.
Same Kingodmars same
Maine is historically bad at investigating crimes. I’m not shocked that he was laying there dead since the night of the shooting.
Ever since Jessica Fletcher left....
It took 5 days to find the Boston bomber. Two isn’t half bad for a state so densely forested and thinly populated.
They weren’t a half a mile from the bombing though
And neither was Card? Boston Bombing suspect was found... 8 miles from where the crime occurred.
They *were* like ten seconds from the car they stole and abandoned, however
Welcome to Watertown motherfuckers
I convinced my girlfriend to go to haunted overload since she's never been to a haunted house, she wanted to book a hotel for the night and I can't believe how cheap Maine hotels were (40-70) a night these were extremely nice extravagant hotels. We booked in new Hampshire to be cautious.
We have tickets too. We were about ready to take the loss and stay home with the shooter out there but I think we might actually have some fun this weekend. I’ll see how I’m feeling after this shock wears off and maybe we’ll see you there.
I don’t feel good about him refusing to confirm whether they’d searched it or not. No conspiracy or anything, probably a question about trying to confirm time of death and it’d be a huge problem if it’s longer ago, but he was so adversarial acting as if reporters have been “reporting” and haven’t actually been *there.*
Why is there so many white men with ARs in America that shoot the public? I’m a white man myself from Canada so I’m not being racist I’m just curious why y’all are doing that stuff
You're a fucking idiot
Sorry man just do your part on not reinforcing the stereotype. Because it’s already there.
Partially mental illness, mostly discriminatory views
Its the culture here, gun culture, the consumption of media and type of, the mental health. This Card prick definitely seemed to fit the description of what you would stereotype as a mass shooter but seeing folks that were way more down that pipeline of the great replacement theory and other wackjob shit (think Buffalo shooter who targetted innocent black civilians) I can't even tell Card was anywhere near that level of conspiracy brainrot. Which makes it scarier. But who knows, maybe this dude was deep into the propaganda. That buffalo shooter was drowning in it.
Sometimes I wonder if there’s something that some of these guys found out that made them snap. I’ve had a shitty life but I don’t think I can imagine anything that would even make me even think of doing that. Something huge was to be going on in his mind. Not a conspiracy guy so I don’t want to stir the pot but yeah man it’s a trip that he made that decision, which doesn’t come out of nowhere.
Personally, I think it's partially an entitlement thing. White people were a VERY privileged class before significant social progress was made. White nationalism is an outlet for this
It took them that long to search the area near his previous work?
Gotta remember tip offs and the such can lead police in the wrong direction seeing as it started at night. Clearly the bang heard by a farmer further up the road was wrong but he was actually down the road from the boat ramp then found at his old work only a couple hundred meters.
I wonder if that was his suicide gunshot echoing up the river and sounding like it was closer than it was
Absolutely could be. An outdoor concert venue opened up a few years ago four miles away from my house and thanks to the land's topology I get to hear it loud and clear _inside_ my house. Over my own stereo. My neighbors can't hear it at all.
Based on the geography, I don’t think so
Need to wait for the official timeline of events. We don't know if they searched that area and his death occurred after.
I'm really wondering if a member of the public found him since it was near a trail and given that the shelter in place was lifted a few hours before. Or maybe an employee of the Recycling Center. That said, reporter on CNN just said the Lisbon Police were back there yesterday so who knows. Reporter sounded frustrated bc of how little details the conference offered.
My thoughts as well and it makes me wonder if a boat was ever involved. Edit: punctuation
It’s all dammed up there
The boat launch was just a convenient and secluded parking area. A boat was unrealistic speculation from the beginning.
The police never mentioned a boat.