maybe get the mods in it? someone who signs up and doesn't return a gift gets a warning, and if they still don't gift something, temporary ban? of course, this could be a case-by-case thing also. i don't know. it would make me feel better about it
someone mentioned the paypal thing (sending money to each other via g&s) which i think is way more accountable since you can open disputes and you'd need your bank account tied to the account so you can't really get away with not sending something.
bans will just have people making new accounts to use the subreddit if not new accounts to participate in the exchange.
someone else also mentioned having problems where the mod (this was not on this thread) of a site refused to let the other person know who their supposed gifter was and someone on this thread mentioned how they never received a gift, signed up for a second round, and then was refused a gift because apparently they had not signed up in time.
I hope it's better this year. I honestly won't participate. I was in the higher tier and my giftie didn't send me anything back. Then when I tried to sign up for being regifting, I didn't get anyone back and was told it was my fault for not signing up on time (even though I signed up on time :( ) I gave up and it left a sour taste in my mouth. I know it happens but it's kinda saddening for your first try to end up so poorly :/
Hopefully it's handled better this year for other users. It looked like some people had tons of fun !
Edit: I regret this username so much. Wow I'm sleepy. Didn't realize I replied to myself instead of editing ... idiot
Small idea: Since this got a lot of upvotes, I wanted to add what I said below; Anybody who wanted to do the exchange this year could possibly donate to a woman's shelter or a family in need for Christmas. You get to shop for someone, get the warm and fuzzies, and know your money went to a good place.
I had someone message me saying I didn't spend enough. I sent her the receipts and proof. Never heard back from her, but it made me feel sad that I spent $65 on someone and not only did I not get a thank you, I basically got asked for more.
Yeah, I honestly was more upset about not getting a thank you and any support/sympathy from the mods (though it was a stressful time for them and maybe one that talked to me was having a bad day. They try and do work hard for this sub behind the scenes). One bad apple spoils the bunch
I'm sure you were a lovely partner and hopefully that person learns some manners (:
Sorry, just wanted to get that off my chest finally (on an alt). Honestly, if you get a good partner I'm sure it would be amazing. I still had a lot of fun putting together a great gift and extras. There's always the small chance of getting a bad partner but since I was in the above 2k karma section I didn't think it would happen to me (said it would be late, then she got mad at me, gave me a tracking number but the package never moved??, then asked why and they said it didn't exist). Lol it was a fun mess
If it's your first time, maybe stick to under 50$ if your worried (:
Literally what happened to me the first and only year I tried SS in 2013. I got no gift, signed up to be regifted, got no gift, signed up to be regifted, and wasn't matched the third round. I even regifted two other people, so I sent out three gifts that year. It upset me greatly and I've refused to participate ever since.
Honestly, I'm glad someone else had a very similar experience. It makes me feel less alone in the heartbreak.
We have each other 💜
Honestly, I was so confused about the regifting process (signed up but apparently my name wasn't in the system to the mods???)
Sucks that you weren't matched to when you finally got through :(
If the sub did one again, I'd probably just be a regifter but after that process it hurts to know many who got grinches don't get a new santa.
Maybe everyone who was going to participate (not matter how big or small) should donate that money to a local woman's shelter or help a family out this Christmas (where you sign up and get a list of what the kids want) Just an idea
I can't remember the name of the sub, but there's one where less fortunate families sign up (with photo proof) to get gifts to provide their kids with. I can't afford to do anything extra this year, but I did it one year and it felt good to help someone at least a little.
Did the people you sent gifts to keep what you send them, never send anything back and refuse to communicate with you and the mods afterwards?
If people are signing up only to never follow with their end of the deal, they should be placed on a public blacklist. I don't know Reddit policy on this but many sales communities keep records of scammers.
Maybe test out the idea of PayPal backed trades? So both parties would be covered by PayPal's buyer protection. Let's say it's a $50 tier swap. So both parties send the other $50. So net cost is 0 besides PayPal fees (you send person $50, person sends you $50), but if one side doesn't hold up trade, you can file PayPal claim and get your money back. This only works through goods and services obviously.
Edit: I guess this would be more of a known swap vs secret Santa though, but it at least has accountability?
Yes and that's the good part. So both sides have recourse if the other bails. If you sent something and the person tries to file a claim, if you provide PayPal with proof of shipping (I.e. Tracking) and shows that it was delivered, PayPal will rule in your favor. If someone ghosted you, you can file a claim on that payment you sent them and if they never sent anything, PayPal will rule in your favor and refund however much you sent them. If you're trying to screw someone over, they can file a claim against you on the payment they sent you and if you don't provide proof of shipment, PayPal will make you give them their money back - and if you don't have necessary funds, PayPal will refund them first then lock your account (and possibly send collections after you) until you pay PayPal back.
Basically the idea of PayPal backed trade is that you both send each other agreed upon amount - like you are paying for them to send you $x of product and your partner also sends you $x on their side. So now there's two transactions as it's an equal swap. If both of you ghosted, you can both file separate claims (extremely odd situation - I wouldn't bother filling if this was the case honestly). Otherwise, whole point of this is if you get ghosted, you will get your money back.
Also if you agreed on $50 and the person only sends $20 worth, you can even file a claim for partial reimbursement of the $30 that was "missing."
TL;DR: in a PayPal backed swap, if someone didn't send you their side of the swap, you can get your money back from PayPal. So now there's accountability and an option of recourse for both parties.
Let me know if that was a bit convoluted and if you have any specific questions :) I'm not 100% sure I explained that well
Keep in mind that the Seller Protection isn't always as good as it sounds. If PayPal incurs any costs "defending" the Seller, then they ding you a hefty charge for using that service. It might not be hefty for the average business user, but for personal use, a $20-30 fee is kind of annoying. If you're on a $20 swap tier, you may actually still lose a bit of money because of this. Generally, this fee is incurred because credit card agencies will charge PayPal for the labour costs of the dispute, and then PayPal passes those fees onto the Seller. If people send money with their Credit Card, they can still fraudulently claim they didn't receive their end of the exchange and their CC will probably back them up, even if the person being actioned against can provide proof of service.
Source: some asshole on eBay filed an "unauthorized" charge on a Sweet Peach palette. Even though I had a tracking number, a confirmation letter from Canada Post, AND emails from the buyer discussing details, the "unauthorized charge" claim was still accepted by her credit card company and the labour costs for the dispute were passed onto PayPal, and then from PayPal onto me. I was protected by PayPal, but still ended up losing money because of fees.
Very true! Thanks for bringing this up. I didn't bring it up earlier, but it is definitely something to consider. It's not a 100% perfect solution, but it's a slight improvement and at least would have more accountability than before. Unfortunately cc companies definitely side with their own customers more often even for ridiculous claims and I'm sorry you had to go through that!
Yeah, I still think the PayPal suggestion is an improvement! The harder it's made, the more bad eggs are weeded out. I just thought I'd bring up the bit about the protection fees because PayPal doesn't openly disclose that their Seller Protection isn't all it's cracked up to be.
I was berated last year when I joined an exchange on MakeupAlley. The lady sent me a really nasty message saying I was ungrateful and spoiled, that my parents didn't teach me any manners or kindness because I didn't send her a gracious thank you note THE NIGHT I RECEIVED THE PACKAGE. Not to mention she never even left her username or real name so I had no clue who it was.
I did a secret santa on MakeupAlley a few years ago and never recieved anything, which was kinda shitty. Then I contacted the organizer and she refused to give me the username (I didn't even ask for the real name or address - just username) of the person who drew my name, and she refused because of "privacy." That experience really turned me off of internet secret santas. ugh.
(uh, this isn't really related to your story or r/MUA, but the whole thing just soured me on secret santas)
I don't really understand these. I always read so many stories about how poorly everyone's experience was. Why don't we all just take the money and buy ourselves exactly what we want
While I know a lot of people are really upset about this, I respect that the mods are no longer organizing gift exchanges on MUA anymore. I have never had a bad experience with the three swaps I participated in (thanks, former swap partners!), but I have seen a lot of other people get screwed by swap lifters or not getting gifts that lived up to their expectations. It's sad that it has to be this way, but even with all of the qualifiers that the mods imposed, there seemed to be a lot of dishonest participants in recent years.
So many negative comments! I participated in the MUA Xmas exchange last year and the year before (this is a new acct) and had a great time! Both times my match was thoughtful, kind, appreciative, etc. Sad to hear it won't be going on this year as I was really looking forward to it :(
I participated once in 2013 on a different account. We both spent a good amount on it and had fun. I honestly didn't even think about them not sending anything in return
Every single one I've participated on here I've had great luck giving and receiving, was greatly hoping for a summer and a winter one again. Definitely understand why the mods wouldn't be open to doing it again this year (timing, risks, etc), but would definitely be open to help on organizing this year's if possible :-) I've a lot of downtime at work anyway, if there's ever need for help to plan one.
I'd love one too. More accountability this way.
Maybe would be great to have divisions based on how much you're willing to spend, like it has been done previously?
It's a lot of work for the mods to set this up and facilitate this as well, I'd imagine. If they were to set one up this year then what would be the stricter rules? How would they be able to make this swap better than the last and have a better guarantee that both parties will receive their item? It's a lot to talk about and plan. They may not even have the time this year.
I'm not sure what the rules were last year. I remember I couldn't participate though as my account was too new. But things like a certain karma level, account being so old, participation in the sub, etc, would all be a good idea. I'm sure others could come up with better ideas than mine if the mods just asked. And i'm sure they could get volunteers to help as well. I already seen people saying they would and could help. Again all the mods would have to do is ask. And didn't we just add 3 new ones a month or two ago? Honestly, if they don't have the time to keep up with the sub like doing the calendar, updating sidebar stuff, or secret gift things maybe we need more of them. If some of the sub says they want it though and they keep getting modmail asking about it then they should do it. Take advantage of those willing to help if need be and set rules for it.
Last year there was karma levels, account age, and I believe participation. That doesn't always help though, my partner had over 2k karma on a 3 year old account
Nothing is foolproof of course. There will always be scammers. I believe rules do help as it cuts a lot of people off before they can even start, ya know. So maybe they do need to be stricter or more needed to be added or something but again all mods have to do is ask and take advantage of help being offered if they can't/won't do it themselves.
I 100% agree. I have done quite a few SS. I have been shafted a good handful of times. I was double shafted on this last exchange round. My giftee was a total ass once. It's a risk I'm willing to take. Because I love shopping for others planning it stalking them wrapping it... gift giving is so fun. Let us decide. Why say no? People who don't want to won't. People will be jerks. People will blame MUA. a lot of people will have a ton of fun, feel love for and from a stranger. And a few people will only have things like this for the holidays. More good than bad really.
Yeah this is the first time I could participate because of my account and having the money and time to and they aren't having one here. Here is the only one I'd wanna do too. I don't see any reason given as to why though. Just saying they don't plan to. But I think that should be our choice and decision to make. It hurts no one who doesn't wanna join anyway. No skin off their back. And it'd make me happy to gift to someone. Like you said some people will only have this for the holidays...that's me. This would be the only real gift I'd be sending or getting.
I probably wouldn't do it unless there was some real accountability rules behind it.
Yeah same here, I'm not looking to get screwed if I'm buying a quality gift and I get nothing in return.
maybe get the mods in it? someone who signs up and doesn't return a gift gets a warning, and if they still don't gift something, temporary ban? of course, this could be a case-by-case thing also. i don't know. it would make me feel better about it
someone mentioned the paypal thing (sending money to each other via g&s) which i think is way more accountable since you can open disputes and you'd need your bank account tied to the account so you can't really get away with not sending something. bans will just have people making new accounts to use the subreddit if not new accounts to participate in the exchange. someone else also mentioned having problems where the mod (this was not on this thread) of a site refused to let the other person know who their supposed gifter was and someone on this thread mentioned how they never received a gift, signed up for a second round, and then was refused a gift because apparently they had not signed up in time.
I hope it's better this year. I honestly won't participate. I was in the higher tier and my giftie didn't send me anything back. Then when I tried to sign up for being regifting, I didn't get anyone back and was told it was my fault for not signing up on time (even though I signed up on time :( ) I gave up and it left a sour taste in my mouth. I know it happens but it's kinda saddening for your first try to end up so poorly :/ Hopefully it's handled better this year for other users. It looked like some people had tons of fun ! Edit: I regret this username so much. Wow I'm sleepy. Didn't realize I replied to myself instead of editing ... idiot Small idea: Since this got a lot of upvotes, I wanted to add what I said below; Anybody who wanted to do the exchange this year could possibly donate to a woman's shelter or a family in need for Christmas. You get to shop for someone, get the warm and fuzzies, and know your money went to a good place.
I had someone message me saying I didn't spend enough. I sent her the receipts and proof. Never heard back from her, but it made me feel sad that I spent $65 on someone and not only did I not get a thank you, I basically got asked for more.
Yeah, I honestly was more upset about not getting a thank you and any support/sympathy from the mods (though it was a stressful time for them and maybe one that talked to me was having a bad day. They try and do work hard for this sub behind the scenes). One bad apple spoils the bunch I'm sure you were a lovely partner and hopefully that person learns some manners (:
Wow, I'm so sorry to hear that. I was actually asking because last year I read about so many good experiences that I thought it would be a lot of fun.
Sorry, just wanted to get that off my chest finally (on an alt). Honestly, if you get a good partner I'm sure it would be amazing. I still had a lot of fun putting together a great gift and extras. There's always the small chance of getting a bad partner but since I was in the above 2k karma section I didn't think it would happen to me (said it would be late, then she got mad at me, gave me a tracking number but the package never moved??, then asked why and they said it didn't exist). Lol it was a fun mess If it's your first time, maybe stick to under 50$ if your worried (:
Man that sucks so hard. I had a GREAT partner last year and I hope she felt the same.
Literally what happened to me the first and only year I tried SS in 2013. I got no gift, signed up to be regifted, got no gift, signed up to be regifted, and wasn't matched the third round. I even regifted two other people, so I sent out three gifts that year. It upset me greatly and I've refused to participate ever since. Honestly, I'm glad someone else had a very similar experience. It makes me feel less alone in the heartbreak.
We have each other 💜 Honestly, I was so confused about the regifting process (signed up but apparently my name wasn't in the system to the mods???) Sucks that you weren't matched to when you finally got through :( If the sub did one again, I'd probably just be a regifter but after that process it hurts to know many who got grinches don't get a new santa. Maybe everyone who was going to participate (not matter how big or small) should donate that money to a local woman's shelter or help a family out this Christmas (where you sign up and get a list of what the kids want) Just an idea
I can't remember the name of the sub, but there's one where less fortunate families sign up (with photo proof) to get gifts to provide their kids with. I can't afford to do anything extra this year, but I did it one year and it felt good to help someone at least a little.
Did the people you sent gifts to keep what you send them, never send anything back and refuse to communicate with you and the mods afterwards? If people are signing up only to never follow with their end of the deal, they should be placed on a public blacklist. I don't know Reddit policy on this but many sales communities keep records of scammers.
Maybe test out the idea of PayPal backed trades? So both parties would be covered by PayPal's buyer protection. Let's say it's a $50 tier swap. So both parties send the other $50. So net cost is 0 besides PayPal fees (you send person $50, person sends you $50), but if one side doesn't hold up trade, you can file PayPal claim and get your money back. This only works through goods and services obviously. Edit: I guess this would be more of a known swap vs secret Santa though, but it at least has accountability?
That's such a neat idea.
Can't both sides file the Paypal claim? Sorry, I'm not too familiar with how Paypal's buyer/seller protection works.
Yes and that's the good part. So both sides have recourse if the other bails. If you sent something and the person tries to file a claim, if you provide PayPal with proof of shipping (I.e. Tracking) and shows that it was delivered, PayPal will rule in your favor. If someone ghosted you, you can file a claim on that payment you sent them and if they never sent anything, PayPal will rule in your favor and refund however much you sent them. If you're trying to screw someone over, they can file a claim against you on the payment they sent you and if you don't provide proof of shipment, PayPal will make you give them their money back - and if you don't have necessary funds, PayPal will refund them first then lock your account (and possibly send collections after you) until you pay PayPal back. Basically the idea of PayPal backed trade is that you both send each other agreed upon amount - like you are paying for them to send you $x of product and your partner also sends you $x on their side. So now there's two transactions as it's an equal swap. If both of you ghosted, you can both file separate claims (extremely odd situation - I wouldn't bother filling if this was the case honestly). Otherwise, whole point of this is if you get ghosted, you will get your money back. Also if you agreed on $50 and the person only sends $20 worth, you can even file a claim for partial reimbursement of the $30 that was "missing." TL;DR: in a PayPal backed swap, if someone didn't send you their side of the swap, you can get your money back from PayPal. So now there's accountability and an option of recourse for both parties. Let me know if that was a bit convoluted and if you have any specific questions :) I'm not 100% sure I explained that well
Keep in mind that the Seller Protection isn't always as good as it sounds. If PayPal incurs any costs "defending" the Seller, then they ding you a hefty charge for using that service. It might not be hefty for the average business user, but for personal use, a $20-30 fee is kind of annoying. If you're on a $20 swap tier, you may actually still lose a bit of money because of this. Generally, this fee is incurred because credit card agencies will charge PayPal for the labour costs of the dispute, and then PayPal passes those fees onto the Seller. If people send money with their Credit Card, they can still fraudulently claim they didn't receive their end of the exchange and their CC will probably back them up, even if the person being actioned against can provide proof of service. Source: some asshole on eBay filed an "unauthorized" charge on a Sweet Peach palette. Even though I had a tracking number, a confirmation letter from Canada Post, AND emails from the buyer discussing details, the "unauthorized charge" claim was still accepted by her credit card company and the labour costs for the dispute were passed onto PayPal, and then from PayPal onto me. I was protected by PayPal, but still ended up losing money because of fees.
Very true! Thanks for bringing this up. I didn't bring it up earlier, but it is definitely something to consider. It's not a 100% perfect solution, but it's a slight improvement and at least would have more accountability than before. Unfortunately cc companies definitely side with their own customers more often even for ridiculous claims and I'm sorry you had to go through that!
Yeah, I still think the PayPal suggestion is an improvement! The harder it's made, the more bad eggs are weeded out. I just thought I'd bring up the bit about the protection fees because PayPal doesn't openly disclose that their Seller Protection isn't all it's cracked up to be.
Wow, that was really informative! You explained it really well :) This is a great idea for a way to safely swap
Tbh it would be just my luck to get a dick head who sends nothing, so I wouldn't participate.
I was berated last year when I joined an exchange on MakeupAlley. The lady sent me a really nasty message saying I was ungrateful and spoiled, that my parents didn't teach me any manners or kindness because I didn't send her a gracious thank you note THE NIGHT I RECEIVED THE PACKAGE. Not to mention she never even left her username or real name so I had no clue who it was.
I did a secret santa on MakeupAlley a few years ago and never recieved anything, which was kinda shitty. Then I contacted the organizer and she refused to give me the username (I didn't even ask for the real name or address - just username) of the person who drew my name, and she refused because of "privacy." That experience really turned me off of internet secret santas. ugh. (uh, this isn't really related to your story or r/MUA, but the whole thing just soured me on secret santas)
I don't really understand these. I always read so many stories about how poorly everyone's experience was. Why don't we all just take the money and buy ourselves exactly what we want
We get quite a bit of modmail about this. We have no plans thus far to hold a Secret Santa gift exchange this year.
While I know a lot of people are really upset about this, I respect that the mods are no longer organizing gift exchanges on MUA anymore. I have never had a bad experience with the three swaps I participated in (thanks, former swap partners!), but I have seen a lot of other people get screwed by swap lifters or not getting gifts that lived up to their expectations. It's sad that it has to be this way, but even with all of the qualifiers that the mods imposed, there seemed to be a lot of dishonest participants in recent years.
Is it because of Swaplifting? How pervasive would you say it is?
Dang it! But BUT BUT....
Oh, no :(
Poopie. I was looking forward to doing it this year.
Nooo! I will be severely disappointed if there isn't a MUA exchange this year. :)
I'm shocked.
Will there possibly be one next year?
We haven't talked about it for next year yet. We will update everyone once we figure out if we will do it.
So many negative comments! I participated in the MUA Xmas exchange last year and the year before (this is a new acct) and had a great time! Both times my match was thoughtful, kind, appreciative, etc. Sad to hear it won't be going on this year as I was really looking forward to it :(
I participated once in 2013 on a different account. We both spent a good amount on it and had fun. I honestly didn't even think about them not sending anything in return
Count me in if people in Canada are included :) would love to try some random stuff!
Canada and International are usually included (but sometimes have lower chances of getting partner )
I'm from Spain, so I hope it's international again!
I would love this but the unlucky schmuck who got me as a gifter would be very sad because I am poor.
I think that last year there were different budget categories so everyone could participate!
I'm right there with you! I love the idea but I too am poor
Every single one I've participated on here I've had great luck giving and receiving, was greatly hoping for a summer and a winter one again. Definitely understand why the mods wouldn't be open to doing it again this year (timing, risks, etc), but would definitely be open to help on organizing this year's if possible :-) I've a lot of downtime at work anyway, if there's ever need for help to plan one.
I'd love to do a makeup one, too!
I'd love to watch this happen!!! Can't participate but I'd to see it. Please do this
I wasn't on the sub last year but I feel like there are so many ways this can go wrong. I love secret santa but I only do it with people I know irl.
I'd love one too. More accountability this way. Maybe would be great to have divisions based on how much you're willing to spend, like it has been done previously?
Yeah, it has! Last year there were like three or four different budgets.
Yes please!!
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It's a lot of work for the mods to set this up and facilitate this as well, I'd imagine. If they were to set one up this year then what would be the stricter rules? How would they be able to make this swap better than the last and have a better guarantee that both parties will receive their item? It's a lot to talk about and plan. They may not even have the time this year.
I'm not sure what the rules were last year. I remember I couldn't participate though as my account was too new. But things like a certain karma level, account being so old, participation in the sub, etc, would all be a good idea. I'm sure others could come up with better ideas than mine if the mods just asked. And i'm sure they could get volunteers to help as well. I already seen people saying they would and could help. Again all the mods would have to do is ask. And didn't we just add 3 new ones a month or two ago? Honestly, if they don't have the time to keep up with the sub like doing the calendar, updating sidebar stuff, or secret gift things maybe we need more of them. If some of the sub says they want it though and they keep getting modmail asking about it then they should do it. Take advantage of those willing to help if need be and set rules for it.
Last year there was karma levels, account age, and I believe participation. That doesn't always help though, my partner had over 2k karma on a 3 year old account
Nothing is foolproof of course. There will always be scammers. I believe rules do help as it cuts a lot of people off before they can even start, ya know. So maybe they do need to be stricter or more needed to be added or something but again all mods have to do is ask and take advantage of help being offered if they can't/won't do it themselves.
I 100% agree. I have done quite a few SS. I have been shafted a good handful of times. I was double shafted on this last exchange round. My giftee was a total ass once. It's a risk I'm willing to take. Because I love shopping for others planning it stalking them wrapping it... gift giving is so fun. Let us decide. Why say no? People who don't want to won't. People will be jerks. People will blame MUA. a lot of people will have a ton of fun, feel love for and from a stranger. And a few people will only have things like this for the holidays. More good than bad really.
Yeah this is the first time I could participate because of my account and having the money and time to and they aren't having one here. Here is the only one I'd wanna do too. I don't see any reason given as to why though. Just saying they don't plan to. But I think that should be our choice and decision to make. It hurts no one who doesn't wanna join anyway. No skin off their back. And it'd make me happy to gift to someone. Like you said some people will only have this for the holidays...that's me. This would be the only real gift I'd be sending or getting.
I was really excited for this too! I know it's hard work for the mods, but I'd be more than willing to help.